fulltonon
fulltonon
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@Boons123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459296#Comment_3459296
Sometimes you want to recharge your Med-kit (Built to Last) but it still contains some charge
So you will have to waste the charges freight and then enter the Locker and then waste the entire Med-kit again
If the suggestion here applies, this scenario will not occur
I don't see problem in haermorrhage countering med-kit, they are still strong enough as is.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459233#Comment_3459233
SoloQ will never use it so long there's just 20 tokens. It's too little if u r not coordinated. The perk would need to be able to at minimum give 45 stacks (so 68s prep time) so that it's actually felt - but this would make the perk unproportionally better in SWF (basically removing 3gens from game).
The perk will never be good in soloQ. But right now, the perk is practically never good period.
Just add "you can't use it's effect to a gen more than once, resets when progress reaches zero" or something like that.
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Are you talking about stalking movement speed or tombstone?
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@Barbarossa2020 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3454191#Comment_3454191
So you deliberately release something you know is a hot mess just so you can nerf if in 6 months?
Good marketing there, "hey guys buy this new killer that's trash on release"
It's certainly honest marketing than "hey we made this OP perks, please buy it it's strong!" then nerf it in few months because everyone bought it.
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If this effect ruins just those three perks, doesn't making those three perks to not affected by haemorrhage makes more sense?
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@JackOfTrades said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459260#Comment_3459260
Honestly, is there much they can do?
They can always penalize SWFs and prevent sniping-for-swf, it's not that hard.
Without losing playerbase or making them angry? definitely nothing they can do, beside marginally making solos closer to it.
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They do tremendous amount of advantage and is also very much problem in balancing, but BHVR never ever care about that problem much.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
I'm not sure what they have in mind to 'fix' a 3 gen from the start kind of strategy, and I'm not even sure how they could fix that issue without an overhaul to at least part of the core game mechanics.
Unfortunately, the only mechanic that currently prevents a stalemate situation is the EGC, but that obviously doesn't cover everything, including 3 gens or when the last 2 survivors do nothing but hide indefinitely.
The only solution I've heard that I even kind of like was someone suggested having an 8th generator in the basement under the stairs that only one survivor could work on, and was completely blocked by a door or something unless a stalemate was detected. So basically it only came into play if the game stalled, but not in a 'normal' game.
Even then though, what happens when the basement is also in the 3 gen? It'll just get camped with the rest of them and we're back to square 1.
Moving the unfinished gens to the edge of the map will just cause trapper and hag to have to walk across the entire map for no real reason, and mobility isn't the strong suit of a setup killer.
I suspect having a mechanic that forces the killer to leave the area in the event of a stalemate is probably what they have in mind. Like adding a switch in the basement that is only available when a stalemate scenario is detected. Have it take 90 seconds or more for the killer to activate, like a gen, so they have to commit to being away from the 3 gen, but then triggers the EGC with doors unpowered if they finish it.
I still don't like that option, because it seems ineffective at best or prone to abuse at worst, but something like that could be possible.
I mean, that kind of mechanics doesn't seems to be that different from just chasing survivors?
if a killer is interested in progressing the game rather than stalling it, they can always try to down survivor, if they didn't want to do that anyway giving killers agency seems to not work.
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@uganda_calm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459235#Comment_3459235
it is very hard to balance end-game in dbd, 3 gen is just a killers last stand to turn a game.
Countering this would just be a overall nerf for killer-endgame. No matter 3-gen or not.
But i am sure there is a way to work around this in a similar way as the anti-face-camp mechanic that is coming to the game. If gens regress faster the further the killer is away from it, i think this would be a good start to balance it (only when one gen is left of course). It would benefit the killer to go for a chase instead of just patrolling between the gens. This would still be no big draw back for mobility killers, but like i said, it would at least be a start to the solution.
...but regressing faster doesn't seems to be anything when killer is chasing? because if they are farther, any survivors can safely work on it, still making killers to stay on gen.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459214#Comment_3459214
I would rather they don't break it at all instead.
But they gonna do it anyway, just slowly.
I'm asking for quick change instead of slow and careful change which prolongs "making killers trash" part.
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@Emeal said:
Then there would be no strategy in forcing Survivors off some gens if they always automatically get the advantage in the end game.
So everyone can stop caring about it because it doesn't matter anyway, and still win because game will be balanced around it.
I personally feels good when I don't have to care about defending specific gen anymore.
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@uganda_calm said:
Thats not balancing, thats just flipping the coin from killers winning 3 gen to survivors winning 3 gen.
As killer you still need to have a chance to protect 3 gens and if you just put them far apart, killers like blight, nurse, dredge or others like them still would be able to hold 3 gen. Distance is not a factor for them.
Yes, it's not balancing, and I don't think removing strength of 3 gen is balancing either.
high mobility killers keeping 3 gen anyway might be valid point though, I don't know the way to deal with it.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
Sure, just expect way more tunneling.
When killer gets low on gens, their option is to tunnel someone out of the game, or hold 3-gen to have good chance of winning.
I know, and I don't see any problem in tunneling tbh.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458964#Comment_3458964
Oh right, because everyone believes they are able to do it in one patch and it wouldn't make killers trash for over a year.
I don't know, if it actually makes killer trash then game would quickly crumble down into trash because survivors NEED killers too, and I don't see problem in there because BHVR tend to act against those kind of problem rather quickly.
We can always play any other games if they are so slow and incompetent, something radical and more fundamental is needed if we actually want to change the game.
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@JackOfTrades said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459183#Comment_3459183
I'd take 1000 for every killer, or alternatively just tell Gun Media to hurry the doggy up with TCM so I can see if that's better than this game (and from my tastes, prob will)
Me too take 1000 for every killer but that doesn't really makes sense, you can spend BP for them.
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Because she is sacrificing entire chase power other killers have to that one 3% movement speed.
If we had a perk that buffs killer speed for 3%, maybe while a survivor is hooked or something? would be broken af, even if it stops you from regression or anything like that.
Look at clown, his entire power is fully slowdown and haste, and the number is ridiculously big, even then he will be considered weak killer because survivor's basekit capability of utilizing pallet, windows, smaller hitboxes and existing at four place at once is that strong.
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Alternatively, just give us free 1000 cakes. for wesker.
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@Rovend said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459158#Comment_3459158
Those counters work, some to more extent than others but they do. There is not a complete nullification strategy against mft and it shouldnt because even if you could not counter mft in the least, you are still faster, have bloodlust and killer powers. But you dont want this, you want the complete removal just because you have overly high expectations of what survivors can do with this perk.
Those survivors you believe are using mft to extend chases to absurd amount of time are the ones that probably would have done the same or more using traditional exhaution perks because using mft efficiently requires good looping knowledge.
I dont see survivors trading their long use sprints and lithes over this new perk. I dont see 4 survivor going full mft now, and probably never will because even if it has decent effect it is not worth it.
Yet you claim this perk is problematic. And if it gets nerfed then we ll start to get more post of "Exhaustion perks are broken, why everyone is using sprint and lithe"
Everything of your post is literally made of assumption like "people would not use it over other perks" or "I think someone who runned you were better anyway", even "everyone would still complain even if it's bad", on the other hand exhaustion perks/addons for killers being extremely limited or unreliable to the point you are lot more likely to not get any value from it, is just a fact.
Catching survivor itself has never been a problem, the point is how long you can prolong it, this perk increase that no matter what, by actually big amount all the time.
even sprintburst or lithe can not do this, those perks require brain cell and effort to pull off, they are not like "you'll just be faster".
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459102#Comment_3459102
If you can't use the BT and subsequent speed boost to get to a safe loop you're probably doing something very wrong.
If you're truly concerned about it being to your detriment to take your free deliverance; simply do not do so.
Ah I see, so survivors can now waste little more time before they die by leaving hooks near the next stage.
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@Rovend said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459123#Comment_3459123
And mft also has its counters. Instadown, exhaustion perk/addon, anti loop powers, speed chase killer power, ranged attacks to some extent.
AGAIN, MFT DOES NOT MAKE EVERY SURVIVOR UNBEATABLE IN CHASE
Instadowns only works first time, exhaustion perks/addons generally is pretty bad and fearmonger isn't even good against MfT, anti loop or speed chase or ranged attacks will not going to "counter" anything because all that things are already balanced against 100% movement speed and survivors will get the value of 3% no matter what, in fact 3% movement speed actually "counter" those killer powers because that haste can very well diminish effect of powers by sizable amount, even against nurse.
If we aren't allowed to think a survivor perk is unbalanced unless that perk makes every survivors unbeatable, I'm pretty sure literally no nerfs were warranted in DbD's history.
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@ElodieSimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459130#Comment_3459130
Yes, problem is many people not using facts. Just making up stories to try to prove their point. If the perk needs a nerf, show the actual facts. So far the only thing I can agree with is a MtF+Hope combo which can be rectified by disabling MtF at EGC. MtF+Resil is not a problem unless you're getting outplayed by a great looper, even then I've seen killers mind game it.
Eh, that seems more like you just don't want to accept the fact, because first absolute fact about this perk is it WILL increase chase time no matter what due to it's non-situational haste effect, but you keep denying this fact.
@Eelanos said:
So the conclusion to all of this is that survivors should no longer have content. From now only, only killers and killer perks, because survivor perks are OP.
It doesn't matter if it's 1%: Extra generator progress is bad for the game, extra movement speed is bad for the game, extra healing speed is bad for the game...
Extra health states are bad for the game, stealth perks are bad for the game, aura reading is bad for the game... so what exactly do people want survivors to have?
Everything on the survivor side has to have obnoxious requirements with low increases (If all other survivors are hooked, slugged or dead and the killer is within line of sight, decrease pain noises 1% after fast vaulting a window) and never be able to counter "strategies".
A perk to stop a survivor from dying when the killer is facecamping? "BUT WHAT ABOUT LEGITIMATE SITUATIONS FOR FACECAMPING?!?!?"
A perk to prevent killers slugging? "PICKING YOURSELF UP ONCE IS OP. KILLERS CAN'T SLUG LIKE THAT??? WHAT IF IT'S NEEDED???"
Wiggling being able to reduce time for carrying a survivor to a hook for 1 second was OP, but backpack builds are fun and niche.
Just admit you don't like survivors having a chance to survive, guys. It's okay, I understand, we all like winning. There's no point to build unsustainable rhetorics like "A bloodlust 3 killer can't catch a +3% speed survivor". It's not an objective opinion about game balance, you just don't like losing.
The most fun part about this is that MFT will inevitably get nerfed and we'll go back to the bi-monthly "Survivors are OP but 90% of survivors are just really bad at the game".
I legit don't get how you got that "conclusion" which is ridiculously biased, kinda like killers saying "no tunneling no camp no gen defense what do we do then".
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@ElodieSimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459010#Comment_3459010
Appreciate the aggression but I am not going to hand hold and explain definitions to you. Not looking for Forum PvP.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459110#Comment_3459110
I don't really understand the WoO complaints we've been getting but BNP definitely needs to be looked at.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459066#Comment_3459066
Just wanted to quote this because it seems a lot of people like to glance over this fact.
the fact MfT is strong enough to the point just a facts can make a valid reasoning to nerf it? I agree.
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@Rovend said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459100#Comment_3459100
If this perk is meant to compete with the strongest survivor perks available it needs to have a decent effect.
If mft could be used with sprint and lithe i would be demanding nerfs alongside you
But asking to nerf a perk with an exhaustion restriction that is already weaker than the other two means you really want this perk to be in a state where no one will use it.
Yeah of course, all exhaustion perks are more or less situational and has killer interaction/counterplay, this perk is not like those.
Literally just "you'll get haste", boring, broken, flawed and stupid, I'd rather have NOTHING than this mess.
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@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
It's been nice having MFT around because once it gets nerfed it's going to go back to complaining about WoO and BNP.
We've been complaining about WoO much? that's a news to me, map complaint is real 24/7 but WoO?
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Not sure if anti-face camp gonna fix it or anything, do you just unhook yourself and immediately get tunneled by same killer who facecamped you, and resulting faster hook state? that actually makes facecamping more feasible, because it'll be most efficient method of tunneling.
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@Rovend said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459037#Comment_3459037
I would rather choose to buff those weak m1 killers than try to kill a perk that is being overhyped and is not nearly as strong as people think it is.
I would rather fix a problematic perk than changing everything else around that one perk.
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You can just pull power cable off and it will counts as "safe" dc, that's too abusable.
If it crashes that much you shouldn't go into the match anyway, as it still hurts as much as common disconnection.
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@lav3 said:
Expected Comment: "Killers have bloodlust, you know that right?"
Oh no, as if we got bloodlust in current patch as a perk.
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@ElodieSimp said:
Might as well remove the perk or not make it stack with Hope, killer mains flocking to the forum to complain about it is tiring. It's situational at best and killers can still catch up a lot of the time. Been noticing a lot of pseudo-intellectual "math" going around about it as well. I don't use the perk so honestly couldn't care less what happens with it.
You seems to have different definition of "situational" from most of humanity.
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@Th3Nightmare said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458600#Comment_3458600
Excuse me, how am I going to answer you? The perk makes the game and all the location of the pallets easier for you, when I am a more experienced player, a 7-year-old player, I have learned all the maps and I play solo, when I play with randoms there are times when I have I have to go to the hook because I can't find pallets due to my teammates, and in these cases I prefer not to put on the perk and go to the hook to give the killer some advantage.
The perk right now gives bad players a lot of advantage and makes chases more durable, I don't see it as fair for many killers.
Most killers never cares about bad players, they won't lose against it, it will be a problem if this makes good players even gooder, but as long as it only helps bad players, it doesn't matter.
Same goes for dejavu, it doesn't really help that much for no life SWFs, so this is fine even though it tremendously helps weaker side of solo q.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458719#Comment_3458719
It would be kinda busted if you couldn't lose tokens.
Start of the game is safe time for survivors, everyone would simply charge this perk on 5-gens.
Then you could basically skip almost whole last gen. Last gen where it's sided towards killer.
Perk that allows you to skip this without drawback, or counterplay would be too strong.
I mean, if BHVR hates 3 genning that much, we should just buff this perk or even make basekit to the point last gen always gets done within a second.
So they can finally balance the maps/games without so swingy gameplay, at least it would be consistent.
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@sickdeathfiend said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458229#Comment_3458229
It's better than what is being done now, which is nothing. I know some people get a nice dopamine hit essentially playing on recruit mode but its ultimately bad for the game as a whole and we all know it. It would be a simple and easy thing to add, BHVR can even reuse the pig's headtrap animation when you click the suicide button, Ez GG.
It's objectively worse than nothing, you are trying to actively hurt the game.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458900#Comment_3458900
The point of Knight's Guards isn't to get hits, it's to time waste and to put Survivors into unfavorable situations.
Except they should have a chance for hit too, and they even changed his kit to make hitting survivors more reliable.
"they won't hit anyway for most so it's fine" is plain false, they are very well designed to injure survivors.
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@Perpendicular said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457931#Comment_3457931
Then we shouldn’t get rid of mft until this happens too since there’s broken killers in the game and killer sided maps
There is so little killer sided maps and "broken killers" don't care about bloodlust in slightest, I can easily throw away the bloodlust and just play nurse no problem.
At least you should understand the things you hate, I think.
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@shalo said:
The DBD community writ large. Wesker mains have the Anniversary event ruined for them and some of the community responses :
"i like not seeing Wesker"
"Yay! So thankful for this!"
"I'm happy"
"Good."
This really tells the kind of people here, lmao.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
They're supposed to lose.
Survivor has been at 100% incentive for me since the patch released. I wonder why that could be?
Survivor being at 100% incentive all the time means there is lot more killers though...
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This is quite interesting how people immediately start personal attack about how "they don't want to admit they got outplayed" or "just don't want to give survivors good perk", and not even try to make a counter argument.
I'm legit not sure whether those kind of people are trolls or actually serious.
@Riski said:
Although I do agree with these counter arguements I think the core concept of the perk (haste while injured) isn't broken although does have the issue of strong against weak killers. Ultimately the amount of chase needed for this to be better distance than sprintburst/lithe is 50 seconds which considering you're injured is quite an ask against a lot of killers. On top of the killers mentioned it's a bit limited against chase focused killers such as nemesis or deathslinger for this reason. The aspect of "out in the open" is better worded as "caught of guard" namely against stealth killers. Against stealth killers even lithe is better than MFT against many stealth options as vaulting a nearby window will gain you a lot of distance where as with MFT it can still be quite unsafe. This isn't to say the perk is bad here but against the top tiers, chase focused, stealth killers and instadowns you'd much rather another option. Now this does mostly make it good against lower tier killers which isn't an ideal which we agree with.
I would argue the biggest issue is the point mentioned about exhaustion, using this then getting value from DH or balanced landing is too much imo. Changing it to actually give exhaustion or a slight nerf (2% or a time limit) could be in order but the principle isn't over powered.
It's not "50 seconds", if you managed to chain one additional tiles because of this perk, it's already better than sprintburst/lithe, and it's not something uncommon.
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And his overclock isn't even strong, he is only good against pallet stun (which just doesn't even happen when survivors are even remotely competent) and maybe just maybe certain windows (but then he will get 2 seconds stun which can easily negate vault speed buff), can't even properly "shut down" loops despite him not having anything else in his kit.
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@adaw0ng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458381#Comment_3458381
Then if you still enjoy the game there is no issue! Let people play what they want and both have a good time :)
That's just being disingenuous, Say, I can very well have fun with play as a face camping bubba with rancor and NWO, does it makes them fine or anything? I'm afraid it definitely is not.
"if you still enjoy the game there is no issue" is pretty much being purposefully ignorant because you don't want to actually look into the game health, I'm not sure if that is good way of thinking.
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@GannTM said:
Someone has never played solo queue to think that this game is survivor friendly.
Solo queue is not the survivors, at least from balance perspective.
It's not the game problem, but rather community and matchmaking problem.
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@Pokino said:
It's the most used perk on this game, this means a lot... It's a surprise there are people who thinks it's fine, but with that rate of use I should've expect it.
It means the map is laughably broken and people want to get the value from it.
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@Akumakaji said:
Just send 100 cakes/flans into all Weskers inventory and I think people will be more lenient to the problem.
100? that's a rookie number, make it 1000 or even more because it's entirely of BHVR's fault.
No, stacking that much of cake is not in any way hard or anything, I'm dead serious.
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Uhm Is there any other strat beside those? hit and run will still be easily defeated by some coordination of swfs, 3 gen camping is plain boring, and there is literally no reason to spread hooks because that is not even strategy.
Devour will be destroyed within a minute or two thanks to competent survivors too.
Or do you want slugfest? that doesn't seems to be any better than camping/tunneling either.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458383#Comment_3458383
Problem is non of us was bad in this match. But he got 2 kills even with garbage perks. I doubt any killer can do this against good survivors.
Uh I can't help but to think it's just a skill issue, how can you be so confident when you lost like this really.
I thought you were at least decent at survivor and not extremely entitled like that...?
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@adaw0ng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458375#Comment_3458375
If I have fun and you don’t sounds like it’s your problem. I enjoy playing survivor with MFT and I enjoy going against it, the same way I enjoyed using and going against 2022 dead hard over other exhaustion perks. I enjoy the variety of the game now too and it’s definitely the healthier it’s been and the more variety it has provided for survivors. If you can’t enjoy the game… Sucks for you, idk. Hope you learn to enjoy it too!
I can very well enjoy it thanks, except I don't defend unneeded broken perk like this for marginal "variety" that doesn't even exist.
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Save the best for last : gain 3% haste per each tokens for 8 seconds after a hit.
Sorry I couldn't resist.
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@adaw0ng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456539#Comment_3456539
I can have fun as killer, it’s just a mindset problem and that’s fine! :)
So is your "issue", if you don't have "mindset problem" you can very well have fun without any perk, and definitely not with MfT.
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Endurance is a problem? I never felt like that, most of them are generally balanced right now.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
I mean good counterplay is just to run an exhaustion perk/addon.
Which is nigh nonexistent and pretty inconsistent in general.
If it was actually reliable to "just run an exhaustion perk/addon", DH wouldn't ever be a problem because same applies to it.
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@mizark3 said:
I mean CoH was beyond busted, (why was it better than Self-Care when it works for everyone?!?) and now it is still strong, but not overpowering. I do agree that DS and DH shouldn't have been nerfed, or if anything DH should have been changed to special attack endurance instead. That being said Sprint Burst always was better than DH in the vast majority of matches, DH just hit harder psychologically.
As far as MFT, I have only run into 1 or 2 Survs running it. It kinda feels like the boogeyman that everyone says it exists under your bed, but when you check there is nothing there. Even then the few Survivors that did use it just seemed to misuse it and go down quicker due to greeding pallets. The only facet I agree about nerfing is it really is 2 perks in 1, and the healing endurance should be removed and put onto a new perk, or a weaker existing one.
I have at least 1 MfT minimum in every match, and they sure is fast af while also being capable of proper looping (which still is the case for like 50% survivors), whether it's a MMR thing or region thing is mystery.