fulltonon
fulltonon
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I think they just wanted to make a camera killer and slapped random stuff that is least oppressive to not have survivor's frustration.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458232#Comment_3458232
He has catch-up ability, he has extremely fast pallet breaks, vaults so that you don't gain distance and you can't even stun him because he's guaranteed a hit.
I understand it's a bit difficult to achieve at the moment, but to call that a weak chase power is, quite frankly, unbecoming of someone with your experience.
And all that will easily be countered by MfT itself, or even just pre dropping, overclock is extremely short to the point it barely manages to get survivors even in straight line.
It doesn't really matter how fast he is fast at breaking vault or windows, because by that time most other killer power already gets the hit.
just "achieving it" is actually not so difficult, what's difficult is achieving it without using pods (keeping them infected), which doesn't really change unless EMP itself actually became limited.
eventually he could be decent as a slowdown killer like pinhead/pig, definitely not a good chase killer.
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458147#Comment_3458147
so doesnt that make it better than MFT? if nurse doesnt care for MFT, but does care for lithe, then logically lithe is stronger. Another comparison: SB. Very similar to lithe. Should we nerf SB because the activation at the start of a chase makes committing a much worse idea for low tier killers? No, because its effect on high tier killers is powerful but reasonably so. Its a pretty simple principle.
If it has a balanced effect on balanced killers, then its balanced. If it has un unbalanced effect (whether stronger or weaker) on unbalanced killers then its unbalanced. if blights getting obliterated by something then theres probably a problem, as it'll problem eliminate lower tiers entirely. But if blights not having an issue, and neither is demo or wesker etc, but trapper and sadako are... is that an issue with the balance of the perk or the balance of the killers? If the only killers really hurt by it are the ones who are already very weak thenthose killers need buffs not the other way around. trappers needed buffs for centuries and sadako is arguably the worst killer in the game. Why should we nerf MFT for them when its only a problem because they suck so badly?
Actually, both nurse and blight very well care for MfT, and this is from objective PoV of distance and relative speed, so yeah that's moot.
How much impact it does is in question but they DO care.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458193#Comment_3458193
Excuse me? He doesn't have a good chase power?
75% faster pallet breaking, vaulting and built in Spirit Fury isn't a good chase power? Right.
Yes, it isn't, and definitely not for the effort of triple hoops.
Those two (or three) power is literally everything he have during chases, he isn't even good at closing gaps, I'm pretty sure he is definitely weak side on all the chasing powers.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458002#Comment_3458002
Eh, not really no.
EMP's are getting significantly nerfed soon.
He definitely can defend gens, but he's also pretty damn good at cutting off choke points and he's got a killer anti-loop.
It doesn't matter, he definitely doesn't have good chase power so his real power remaining is cross map traversal, which just doesn't work with EMP because there is still enough EMP to disable pods near the generators, no matter how much they nerf it.
Which forces him to keep 3 gen closer and manually replace drones, because otherwise he is powerless killer for most of times and he is not even good at chase if he managed to use power, ultimately making him just a worse skull merchant.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458156#Comment_3458156
Asymmetrical doesn't mean only one side gets to have new perks that are moderately useful. Eruption meta lasted 9 months before it was nerfed, and you're crying over a much less impactful perk after less than a week.
"much less impactful" ? citation is needed, it just comes down to the fact you aren't understanding the game in any way, as haste is most strongest effect in the game.
That is why those things are basically limited to killer power or basekit mechanics, or those things that requires setup, or require endgame.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458143#Comment_3458143
Man, if only Made For This was basekit, scaled every 15 seconds, worked while healthy or exhausted, and wasn't half the strength of tier 1 of a basekit killer mechanic.
Oh no, please don't start the discussion about how this game is asymmetrical or something like that.
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I haven't really seen any other game that makes people to complain when they are focused, dbd community is strange.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457817#Comment_3457817
Yes. But how many killers can do this against skilled survivors?
You can't do this with Trapper. You can't do this with most of killers. Even A-tier killers, i highly doubt.
But Blight can. I wonder why.
Literally no one, considering how this game had "do everything you want" tournament and it was full of blight/nurse, and still had 50% ish kill rates.
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@ChaosWam said:
How can you forget the addons
Wait, bubba has any other addons beside chili?
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456730#Comment_3456730
3% haste shouldn't come that easily? What about a free 5% for getting repeatedly outplayed at a LT wall?
Literally everything in this game is made for that basekit mechanics in mind, if MfT was basekit from the start we'd just have different dbd, as in more killer sided mechanics, today.
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You don't really need agitation as bubba, basement or not rescue is impossible.
Remove it, add no way out, and you can replace insidious for something else to be stronger against 4 player SWFs, or keep using it to absolutely wreck solo q players.
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458125#Comment_3458125
so... a perk thats balanced against the balanced killers but hurts weaker killers more? kinda seems like lower tier killers need buffs if its not crushing the b-tiers. guess we should nerf lithe because its really strong against freddy and sadako!
I didn't know people consider nurse or blight as a "balanced killer", sorry about that.
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So... a perk that hurts those who don't deserves? seems to be a badly designed perk that better be reworked, just from your description.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457984#Comment_3457984
Most killers that have some sort of mobility can use it during chase. Surprise also helps considering killers like Wraith or Ghost Face are either going to hit and run, or even Ghost Face can simply insta down negating MFT completely.
There is also several counters to the perks, again insta down killers/perks negate the perk completely, hit and run killers make its effects basically useless, and also there is more than enough perks and add ons that apply Exhaustion.
2 things are more than likely going to happen. MFT gets completely gutted because there is no other way to fine tune this perks already existing effects without making it dogshit, or people start to realize its just a perk similar to Resilience but you cant Exhaustion perks with it.
I'd rather just not have easy haste perk like this because it's always just broken perk or useless perk, just like how most of boons are.
And sadly insta downs are only active for first chase, not healing against bubba is already not so rare strat, hit and run isn't really that useful neither because survivors can still heal everyone up within 16 seconds, even though it's not that easy.
Definitely there isn't more than enough perks or add ons that apply exhaustion too, I'm not really sure if there is even a dozen of it.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457923#Comment_3457923
Nightlight doesn’t count console players. The official stats from BHVR do, and have him with a higher KR.
Official stats are already pretty much outdated, that is even before HUD update, making it nigh pointless.
And even in official stats he is in like lower 30%, definitely on weaker side of killers... just not as weak as "average" survivors.
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@Sharby said:
Also idk how many times it needs to be said, this perk will not singlehandedly win chases for you unless you were already good at looping or the killer is bad.
Its a win-more perk not a automated perk.
It's literally just a haste, it helps everyone including those who is bad or good, it's exactly what an automated perk is.
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@Dogma_loki said:
Screw it just go ahead and buff all killer perks.
The kill rate will be 95% and killer mains will still be in here crying about OP survivor perks are.
Is that your desire? humans be strange.
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They definitely should stop making new maps if they want to balance maps, I don't think they are capable of doing both at all.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456685#Comment_3456685
You forgot to mention Reassurance got a nerf and now its a crap perk
Yeah it's so bad that perk can't hold survivors hostage/s
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457961#Comment_3457961
Because her two effective playstyles are Totem Defender and 3-genner.
Which is also the case for singularity as long as EMP exists lol
Singularity ultimately just does what skull merchant does, but with order of magnitude worse performance.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457897#Comment_3457897
Off the top of my head, I've seen (not forums exclusive):
-Prove is as bad as DH
-MTF is as bad as DH
-SB is worse than DH
-Adren is worse than DH
-UB is as bad as DH
-New BT is worse than DH
-The Deja Vu buff will be as bad as DH
-Blood Rush is gonna be as bad as DH
Uh, I've really seen none, maybe SB but that was mainly in the line of "SB is actually stronger than DH so people gonna complain about it when DH nerfed" or something like that.
I think blood rush had so much of backlash but don't think it was compared to DH.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457861#Comment_3457861
Ive used it in a build to experiment using WGLF and MoM. I also played against it a tone playing killer.
And 9/10 a Survivor who has MFT would of been better off running Sprint Burst or Lithe since most killers have tools to either: down a survivor quickly, have the element of surprise, have good mobility.
Its basically just a different version of Resilience with more utility in chase rather than overall, and thats not a bad thing.
There is rather little mobility that can be used during looping, and "surprise" doesn't really help against it as all that does is helping first hit, and then "down a survivor quickly" generally has range limitation or LoS limitation so still largely gets hurts by the perk.
Considering no counter nature of this perk, MfT only gets worse and worse with the more time it passes because people will understand how to utilize this perk, just like how dead hard wasn't really considered that good for earlier times (although that could be more related to it not working properly due to hit validation).
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457930#Comment_3457930
Yes, bring back DH to what it was before
Dead hard is unironically healthier than MfT because it still require survivors to press E.
@CorvusCorax86 said:
Did you invest 8k in the survivor role mainly?
If people played 8k hours of survivors, they definitely will know how 3% haste can prolong the chase.
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I wish Made for this was as easy to counter as sb or lithe, and only limited to once per chase, and didn't have capability to stack with dead hard or balanced landing.
And for the worst part there is no gameplay in made for this, no interaction, no input, no strategy, plain speed boost that works basically all the match, most boring perk ever.
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@sickdeathfiend said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457381#Comment_3457381
Hell yeah, brother. I think it's more unhealthy for the game if most players have to suffer, will turn more players away. It's like the face camping/ tunnel abuse that just makes the game miserable to play. At least they are addressing that issue which is nice!
Fun fact: the more people will suffer from a person disconnecting, a player disconnecting makes four players miserable.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457916#Comment_3457916
Doctor is not so weak. He performs exceptionally well against low to mid survivors, which is where most survivor players fall. IIRC he had around a 55% kill rate last fall. There were several killers below him (though none were below 52%, with I think Trapper right there). I don’t think MFT counters his power anymore than SB or Boon: Dark Theory does. But I’d need to put it to practice myself.
Uh I doubt that.
Credibility is rather questionable but still, I doubt he is "not so weak" when I see him having 52% kill rates in nightlight, which is like lower 30%.
SB is quite different matter but boon dark theory is extremely limited in range, and it also has same problem as MfT as long as it's in range, so MfT wouldn't really "counter" his power more than dark theory, both would effectively disable one part.
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@Lost_Boy said:
I think the issue is the accumulation of those extra 5 seconds across multiple chases throughout a match. You could potentially have the equivalent of a gen's worth of time accumulated if everyone starts running it.
This is not always "5 seconds" either, if you managed to reach the new tile with that 5 seconds (and I doubt it's rare or anything), it's whole an additional chase.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457910#Comment_3457910
Dropping pallets *and* vaulting. The shock denies vaults too. And the Doctor finishes the power animation before the survivor does.
And this perk basically disable half (or more because we have more pallet than windows I think) the power, that is already huge enough especially for doctor which is already weak.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457846#Comment_3457846
Can’t Doc’s power stop you from vaulting and throwing pallets though? I’d guess that is why he slows down when doing it. Survivors need some way to possibly avoid immediately being downed by him. Same with Huntress who can quickly launch projectiles (tbh the speed/distance doesn’t really matter much to her). These drawbacks exist within the killers so survivors have a chance at surviving against them.
Doc's power stops you from dropping pallet, but it doesn't matter when they gain more distance than they lose.
These drawback exist within 100% movement speed in mind, without it game just doesn't work.
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@Perpendicular said:
We gonna get rid of bloodlust too?
That was a dream of everyone, sadly BHVR never managed to balance the game to not have bloodlust.
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Doesn't blood pact and no mither have small anti-synergy?
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
I feel like we need to bring back old Dead Hard For Distance just to get people to stop comaining that everything is as bad as Dead Hard. I did not suffer through DH being meta for like 4 years just for it to be diminished like this.
"everything" when literally only this perk has been complained.
This perk unironically kills lot more killers than dead hard, yes it's real.
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I've actually stopped using regression perks because they are boring, gens are pretty fast but that's just nature of how this game works.
on the other hand basekit kicking buffs were actually big.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457715#Comment_3457715
They are correct though.
You NEED to have good Killer gameplay in order to get value out of your regression perks.
If you can't play decent macro, Corrupt isn't going to help. If you don't have good gamesense, PR isn't going to be that good. If you can't get consistent hooks, PGTW isn't going to be good either.
Unlike our previous meta, where you could get value by just sitting next to a gen and watching it regress, which certainly shows a lot of skill.
even with 300% regressions of overcharge/call of brine, if you sit next to the gen survivors will progress other gens at 1200% speed total (even if we assume camping).
"getting value" much lmao.
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5 more seconds, allows survivor to reach 20 more meters, which is huge as heck.
Yeah it doesn't matter whether we have hope or not, MfT alone is the problem.
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It's not that stacking is a problem, made for this is broken as is, and everything becomes broken with this perk, even the new dead hard will be broken if we think about it.
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@jeffkillsyou96 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457741#Comment_3457741
Well there’s a counter to greeding pallets go for the lunge/don’t respect if you know they’re gonna greed
I'm pretty sure that "greed" means "allows you to SAFELY loop some additional time", basically giving no counter to killers, so it's technically not considered as conventional greed.
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Or alternatively you can just scrap made for this altogether and suddenly all the problem disappears.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Nice. If only anyone was slipstreamed.
I wish one player was slipstreamed.
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@uganda_calm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457387#Comment_3457387
i agree, MfT is also very strong when used alone.
But my point is that there is a really big difference between being ALMOST as fast as the killer and BEING as fast as the killer.
I think the thing about hope is that it not comes to use very often and so it was not really on peoples radar. But by adding new haste perks, the devs shine more light on other haste perks. So a lot of people just now realize what an impact hope and other perks like it can have if they come to use. And by adding new stack-able haste perks, hope gets buffed, indirectly.
That could be true in normal games, but in endgame if you managed to survive till gates get opened, it's pretty much guaranteed escape because with 107% speed any windows are god windows, and also you can run killers from corner of the map into another corner of maps just from those distance, making being as fast or almost as fast not so different.
I can see hope being in the radar and people gonna say something about it and nerfing it because it IS strong, but I don't think it's necessary or actually fix the MfT problem.
and ultimately I just don't want to see BHVR saying "hey we nerfed haste perks to not be stackable so MfT is fine, thanks and have fun" or something like that, that'll be a nightmare.
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@TicTac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457311#Comment_3457311
Made for this is great against 50/50 killers like executioner and nemesis. With 50/50 i mean you can either drop the pallet or run another round, and you need to guess correctly if the killer uses his power or runs through the pallet.
You also reach pallets faster and can predrop more safely, which helps aginst them.
Made for this is like you said weak against an ambush from stealth killers (but bl and lithe are also weak against that) and insta downs. Also against speed killer like spirit.
But then it still punishes those speed killers heavily when they make a mistake, additional distance is no joke.
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@uganda_calm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457166#Comment_3457166
those 3 percent add more than you think.
Yes, Made for this becomes a problem with hope because with 110% you are faster than 25% of the killers. You can literally just run in a straight line from the killer and get away with it.
If you think the game is over if all gens are repaired, you really have no idea how the game works. When the exit gates are powered begins the most intense part of the game. The survivors only have two options to go and the killer knows them both. Its the most claustrophobic the survivors can get. And perks like hope are a big power up for survivors in this stage.
And if hope then gets combined with MfT, the killer just becomes laughable in this part of the game. Combined withe the boost you get when you get hit, the killer becomes no longer a threat in the endgame.
In my opinion, such a big speed boost as hope should not be stackable with other speed boosts.
I know the strength of 3%, I've complained about it countless times, just that hope is already really big deal and makes them uncatchable as long as they are in tiles so there isn't much difference, and then it only activates on end game which forces survivors to play with 3 perks, the fact no one ever complained about it pretty much tells no one really cared when survivors becoming almost uncatchable in endgame, and so do I.
I'm not stating hope is not strong, nor MfT is not strong, I'm just telling them hope is already EXTREMELY strong as is, to the point MfT is the redundant at that point of stage, and saying "MfT is only problematic with hope" is plain false because actually MfT alone is ridiculously overpowered and extremely problematic.
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So you want literal free disconnection that doesn't penalize you in any way?
It's hella unhealthy really, imagine killer having this same exact feature and denying every SWF from playing with him, it'd be ridiculous.
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This seems quite interesting tbh but I don't see the point in making it legion.
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@solarjin1 said:
people running out of stuff to complain about. Seeing threads about good non over powering perks like windows, dead lock, and sloppy more often.
How could we do run out of stuff to complain about when we have forced hesitation (prime example of tunneling perk) made for this (literal haste for half the game) scavenger (oh wow more toolbox) and deja vu (free repair speed yay)
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457311#Comment_3457311
I see what you're saying, but that isn't much of a hindrance. You have quite a few options to help you out in forcing this gen to be completed while applying slowdown elsewhere.
Jolt, Dead Man's Switch, Ruin, these allow you to maintain pressure on other gens, while discouraging survivors from letting go of the gen you want. Is it a catch all improvement for every killer? No, but there are certain killers that really benefit from it, and going forward this massive effect will need to be held in mind for all killers.
Once you have your boost, you're almost guaranteed to down 1 player, and you're not within a bad shout of catching 2, and there is not really anything those survivors can do.
My point is Haste is an extremely potent effect, and unlike other effects, it doesn't take much thought to use effectively.
Prolonged Haste makes bad players far harder to deal with for either side without any skill required... I should know I'm one of them. Haste should be confined to short bursts that give you a chase to make it round a loop at the right time, then go on a cooldown.
Machine Learning may not be as troublesome as Made For This... but it is still troublesome.
Did you just said ruin for a perk that require you to kick a (actually two of) generators?
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I honestly wishes reworking machine learning simply because it's too much effort for the (unironically big) reward and too unreliable to even make it work, and then if it works it's actually a free win as long as you are in chase.
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@MikeyBoi said:
The only thing that annoys me about sloppy butcher is how your heal progress automatically goes down if you’re forced to stop healing, I don’t really understand why they added that to sloppy cause it was already pretty strong to begin with..
Because bleeding was useless and healing was pretty strong.
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@JackOfTrades said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457183#Comment_3457183
I don't see very many people with OTR nowadays. It may just be me, but.
Same, I think I've seen more dead hard than OTR for some reason.
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@Perpendicular said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457178#Comment_3457178
There’s no limitation though. You’re pretty much guaranteed to get it unless you have a power which gives you a hit anyway
I've already listed countless limitation and the situations it doesn't work, and stated how everything in this game is already balanced around bloodlust's existence in mind, I suppose it's not my problem if you can't understand it.