fulltonon
fulltonon
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3462107#Comment_3462107
Well then we get into the realms of do you remove genuine gameplay decisions because a select group of players kick their toys out of the pram?
There are methods to manage these kinds of things. If I were to spitball a tracking mechanism design (cause you don't want to start tracking people unless you need to):
- Keep a small hidden list in the player profile that monitors number of DCs within the last 31 days. I
- If over a certain threshold % of DCs per month out of games played, then enable report tracking.
- If unsporting reports start to accumulate, and the DC list is long, you have strong evidence for a leaver. Issue bans accordingly.
There literally is no reason to use dc when hook suicide exists, and no matter how much report they got, hook suicide can not be distinguished to literally just trying to escape and failing skill checks.
that "gameplay decision" is pretty much meaningless anyway and doesn't even work for 99% of times, just remove it.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3462139#Comment_3462139
A survivor getting hatch doesn't mean the killer lost or even tied with the survivors. The risk of slugging for the 4k should be the killer ending up with 2 kills, not with what is essentially considered a win. It's like complaining you got a gold medal but didn't break a world record.
You also know the killer can just hook the survivor and slug people close to his NOED right? And protect both the totem and his hook/slug(s).
But with 2 survivors dead, and more than 2 gens are remaining, any other outcome beside killer winning doesn't really makes sense, your opinion doesn't have reasoning as in why, like why are you getting mad when you see killers are trying to break a world record right after getting a gold medal? that seems pretty reasonable, and they still have to work for it.
If you seriously consider that extremely low chance occurrence as a "risk", just run detective's hunch and counterforce, you can easily take out every totems yourself.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3462115#Comment_3462115
Why does NOED exist then? You already lost the game if you made it to end game with no deaths and survivors finished all 5 gens. Heck, don't even try just afk in a corner in that case, you were losing all game, why should you have the chance to turn a loss into a win? Don't start arguing over good survivors etc. That's bullshit. Just explain to me why a perk to undo your mistakes exists. I thought we hated second chance perks for the same reason.
Just like survivors have to play perfectly till the end, killers should have the same risk. Either secure the 3k and be happy with your win even if one escapes, or risk it all for the 4k and actually have a risk to make out with only 2k. What's so hard to understand about that? Survivors hear all the time the game doesn't end when all 5 gens are done, why should the game end when 2 survivors are left?
Killers who take too long to close out the game should have increased risk of throwing their win. Slugging for the 4k should not be a low risk high reward strategy. It should have more risk involved to it.
Why? NOED is a perk, period, I don't even care if NOED got removed anyway, it doesn't even turn "a loss into a win" because any decent (yes, decent, doesn't even need to be smart) survivors can easily cleanse NOED today.
And killers always do have the risk even if they go for "slug 4k", like it's not very uncommon to find someone who running unbreakable and gets up RIGHT AFTER THE KILLER HOOKED A SURVIVOR, so they can have a hatch, it's survivors who decided to end the game by not taking proper counter perks.
And yes, they still have an increased risk for throwing wins because more time takes for 2 survivors left = less time it takes to finish up gens, it's very much possible to just finish up a gen and get to the gate, with 2 survivors, especially with perks like hope/MFT or adrenaline.
@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3462123#Comment_3462123
I didn't know I was playing all 4 survivors at once, but thanks for letting me know.
I didn't know you can't find a totem that is broadcasting an aura of himself by 24meter radius, I suppose you knew it's existence right?
it's not like a hex totem equip distortion to be stealthy, NOED is extremely easy to spot.
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It definitely is just a waste of time for most part, and being literally riskless seems little strange.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3462090#Comment_3462090
That's like saying "I am not racing cause I have black friends" and then proceeding to say a racist thing anyway.
First you claim the way to counter NOED is for your whole team to cleanse the totems, which requires co-ordination that solo doesn't have. Then you tell me to "git gud" when the game's matchmaking is ######### and survivors of hugely different skill levels are matched.
That's again a great argument there. Can't even admit that certain strategies are strompers for solo just gotta say "git gud". Kinda sad killers couldn't wait out dead hard like the good ones.
We have two counters to NOED today.
A. if you have lot of times because killer is so bad, just cleanse all totems.
B. if you don't have lot of times or failed to cleanse all totem for some reason, run like a headless chicken after 5 gens popped and you will find it unless you are legally blind and can't see aura.
It definitely doesn't really matter whether you are solo or not, especially latter one.
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His chase power still doesn't feel strong or anything, and I'm not interested in 3 gen strat that's going to be removed anyway.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457138#Comment_3457138
Is it additional effort when you need 4 mins to catch the last kill? You were gonna catch him anyway with Bloodlust. Ity's the game who handed him to you, it's not you who got him if it took you so long.
"Just hook it and go afk" vs "down it, find the last survivor, chase him, down him, hook him, and hook original survivor you've downed seconds (or minutes) ago"?
Yeah of course, it is a lot of additional effort, it doesn't really matter whether game handed it to you or not (because by that time your game is won anyway), but even then for most of time you don't even need 4 minutes, it'll end quicker.
Why game has to hand free escape for already losing side? when that mess with lot of game mechanics? your reasoning seems to be nonexistent.
@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457274#Comment_3457274
Can't the exact same be said for NOED?
If survivors do all 5 gens why should a perk allow the killer to undo his bad decisions for the last 10 minutes?
Ah so you are saying hatches should be a perk? I actually agree with it, I wish lot of survivors to play with 3 perks.
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@UndeddJester said:
Wouldn't lose too much sleep if there were stronger penalties for DCing and suicide on hook.
Suicide on hook needs to stay in the game, as if it's down to 2, you can suicide to give hatch. It's also not a bad thing to consider if gens are/almost done but you're hooked in basement that'll likely get 1, 2 or even 3 survivors killed trying to get you out.
I think simply tracking regular suicides/DCs combined with an unsportsmanlike report to doll out harsher penalties is the most logical solution. Survivors should definitely report cause it just handed the Killer a huge advantage, and 3/4 reports in a game has to be a flag.
I doubt "Because there was a lot of report" is anything valid at all.
If BHVR have no capability to distinguish whether people purposefully did it or not, the only logical change is to remove it.
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Uh considering both people play "very unfun way", it wouldn't really matter.
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@Coordi said:
With a feature like this, it would negate the effects of things like No Mither and Unbreakable, which in my opinion is not a good thing. Keeping the perks viable whilst also not giving away builds is part of the fun for me, even if it's a game where I'm slugged.
Just make it happen after certain seconds (30 seconds, 60 seconds or even 90 seconds), so people still have time to activate perks (and killers have the capability to deny it by hooking) while not wasting people's time as much as today.
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@jordanjustice said:
Lot of comments over such a ridiculous thread subject.
Let's say that the survivor that wants to commit suicide, can't... because 'that mechanic' is taken out of the game...
Well... there's nothing making that survivor actively help out their teammates. They can go into a locker somewhere and go idle... or just walk around doing nothing. You can't make the survivor actually contribute, so this thread is moot. A suicidal survivor isn't going to help the team, whether or not they are allowed to commit suicide.
Not really, most survivors will just play the game if they can't suicide.
Same things happening with disconnection, penalty made them to actually play the game.
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It doesn't really matter if generators are actually defendable, which isn't the case in today's dbd.
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It's quite ridiculous how BHVR are so stubborn about keeping reward for surviving only, really.
Just remove hook suicide and make reward more consistent, it's not hard, it helps game health too.
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@tyantlmumagjiaonuha said:
Chase with Made for this and Dead Hard is very comfortable and I will continue to use it until it gets nerfed. According to CoH standards, it can be used for about 2 years. My condolences to all M1 killers.
Hey, BHVR even has a "plan" for fix it if it was problem, you can expect little more.
...oh wait, they really aren't famous for noticing an obvious problem like this quickly, oops.
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Let's be real, ultimately SWFs always knowing both survivors and killer locations.
It's not gonna be that bad.
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@[Deleted User] said:
The issue with using raw math to determine if a move speed perk is OP or not is that the game only directly matches the calculation if the survivor and killer are continuously running in a stick-straight line. How often is this actually the case?
You’re honestly no better than the devs who look at spreadsheets to determine balance and go no further.
Because it will work BETTER in those situations...?
Running straight is always the WORST case scenario in chasing for survivors, and it is ALREADY strong enough there, do you seriously believe it will somehow work worse in tiles?
@Hex_Ignored said:
They're probably collecting data to see how much mft REALLY affects kill rates. Maybe it's just another hyper focus situation where the perk looks strong on paper but doesn't really influence kill rates enough to warrant a nerf
Ah then devs probably should stop caring kill rates, because "kill rate" has nothing to do with game health.
Rancor facecamp bubba is not common or anything and doesn't really affect kill rates in any way, it's not like they are not unhealthy.
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Any killer is miserable to go against for some of survivors, survivors could even think certain survivors are miserable to play with.
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@Veritere said:
No to the auto mori. It would just incentivate killers to do it and also there are a few ways for survivors to get up/escape in these situations, like specific perks or hatch.
Either add base kit unbreakable (abusable by swfs), a forefeit button (but personal choice, not team based choice, otherwise it would probably not work) or the ability to increase the bleed out rate, which is the option I like the most
Basically an unneeded SWF buff, two glorified disconnection without any penalty.
The only thing that makes sense in those situations are literally just killing everyone and declare it as win, because that's literally what it is in live server.
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@Gandor said:
The nightlight annouces the perk usage rate at 4,8%. That about sums it up how "OP" the perk is. For comparison, Lithe has 24% usage rate...
Nightlight uses the statistics of last 14 days, do you remember when the patch with made for this released?
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460908#Comment_3460908
Out of 5 possible states (0K, 1K, 2K, 3K, 4K) why would 50% kill rate (middle value) mean the most common outcome is one of the left states (1K is the one a little on left instead of 2K which is perfectly in the middle). This would mean said outcome would need to be balanced with large number of 4K's to be true.
Another thing - why is it OK for "free 1K" to be a thing? If it scews the stats so much, then help survivor team to balance it out with some basegame mechanics. Help survivors get 4 out more often. But I don't even think this is the case, because this one is actually balanced by whole survivor team loosing and last survivor still having a shot at hatch or gate.
Honestly I don't need 1k endgame camp or 3k hatch escape, game becomes better without those aspect.
Hiding should be treated with different feature.
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@gilgamer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460394#Comment_3460394
I swear people blame all their problems on swf
Yeah, non-SWF players can easily make killer's life miserable too, especially with 3% movement speed.
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I think it will work because it's not going to mess with matchmaking, unlike perk or killer ban.
But voting for maps doesn't work because there is 4 survivors and 1 killer, maybe work if their odds made to be equal (1 killer vote = 4 survivor vote or something like that).
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It's quite strange how they strictly punish every DCs yet keeping hook suicide as is, people are clearly using it for abusing and doesn't really use for proper intentions.
Hook escape mechanics should be entirely reworked, same goes for skill checks too.
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Ah yes, the "fun", objective and reliable standpoint for disabling a killer.
How about removing capability of move for survivors? chasing is not fun for killers, they want free hook.
So everyone can have fun except survivor enjoyer.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Nope. There is no reason to buff slugging.
It's literally just a QoL though, not even killer side one.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460688#Comment_3460688
A survivor might say they wish they had a speed perk that ups haste by 25% but that doesn’t exist either. There are plenty of perks that regress or slow down gen progress - some requiring the killer to take an action like kicking a gen, some passive via hex, some just passive that trigger events at certain levels of progress. Most aren’t as niche as requiring a fast vault, setting up 3 protection hits or as uncontrollable as sprint bursting every time it’s up.
That's literally just made for this, which increases chase time by 20~25%.
even if you just look at numbers, the difference between 0.6 and 0.48 is basically as much as 25% or 20%, please at least try to understand what is told to you.
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@Jinxed said:
I'd prefer a forfeit button to an auto mori. Otherwise it's just going to promote slugging to get the mori.
Cypress mori already does that, it doesn't "promote" slugging any more than that offering.
@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/380121/4k-slug
problem with that one though: the most efficient way to win then would be to just never hook anyone --- which is made easy and efficient thanks to perks like knockout.
Mass slugging for kills (and imo any kind of prolonged / strategic slugging) is unhealthy for the game and the mechanics should simply not allow it to be viable in any form. Either survs need the ability to pick themselves up and/or the more survs are slugged the more the remaining get buffed to be able to pick them up under all circumstances (even if endless T3 Myers is for whatever reason camping slugs).
If that is efficient, people are already doing that 24/7 because 99% of survivors don't have capability to pick themselves up.
Mass slugging is certainly not consistent or "most efficient" method of win, not a problem.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459899#Comment_3459899
That’s the game though. I get what you’re saying but I wouldn’t call extending chases arbitrary any more than I would call gen regression or slowdown perks arbitrary. (Unless they literally threw darts at numbers on a board and blanket slowed/sped things down/up).
The events after laying eyes on a survivor shouldn’t be easily replaceable by a random number generator that downs them after a range constrained amount of time. If they spent a perk slot and are injured, this gives them a minor haste bump. It helps the survivor loop, sure, but what else is their objective if you’re chasing them?
I wish there was a perk that regress generator speed by permanent 25% just from kicking gens, it's the killer's objective.
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I seriously need explanation because this seems ridiculous lmao
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For some reason, I've noticed gen speed increased tremendously.
Like even if I finish first chase within 5 gens, by the time I hook seconds 4 gens popped.
Were they cheating? did perk helped them THAT much? it's a mystery, but the speed was ridiculous.
I never really had pure gen speed like this, for the most part everything slowed down by a lot once game reaches 3 gen more to finish.
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@PotatoPotahto said:
According to Nightlight.gg Skull Merchant has one of the highest killrates (if not the highest). So yes, she is underrated.
Honestly, people didn't even say skull merchant is weak from the beginning, I think.
People said she is bad at chase, didn't said she is weak as a killer.
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@Komi said:
I see all this information and wonder if everyone's forgotten MTF disables on exhaustion. Wouldn't running perks\addons that inflict it be the simpler solution? SM already has an add-on for it too! This isn't to discount the strength of 3% but it feels like there's already enough options to deal with it.
Only reliable exhaustion perk is fearmonger, and then which isn't very good for MfT because it doesn't have cooldowns.
Anything else is legit unreliable or killer dependent, if you have to change killer just to deal with a perk, might as well play nurse.
Also this isn't really a post about SM being weak against MfT I think.
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@HeyItsQuiet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459661#Comment_3459661
"bRo ThIs GuY"
While absolutely sobbing that 1/32 characters is unavailable so the game is COMPLETELY UNPLAYABLE!!1111! UNFAIR!!
My goodness. The entitlement.
Yeah, the entitlement of being mad at purchased character not being able to play or even progress.
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PInky finger - situational and limited, iri head - extremely limited and requires skill, Judith's tombstone - require ridiculous build up and is not even permanent as is, slows you down too.
Since first two is definitely not even efficient for camping, your first point is moot, judith tombstone is unironically balanced because even with deadlock and corrupt it can very well take more time to level up than finishing generators, can even be countered by lockers too.
Tombstone piece is the only one that could be considered instawin (definitely not instant though), but then same locker counters can be applied to him.
SBMM isn't even the where game is going, this game is not meant to be played for "skill" because game doesn't even tell whether you are skilled or not, you are fundamentally misunderstanding the purpose of it.
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@OrangeBear said:
In my opinion he has way too much counterplay for the effect it has which is just map traversal. I feel like, why not just play wraith?
or dredge.
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In current state, survivors can singlehandely disable all important pods and makes you powerless unless you manually replace it or place it mid-chase, and he isn't even much better at chase than most of other killers.
Without EMP "truly everywhere all at once" might be truth, but sadly that's not the case in today.
It doesn't help no maps are actually designed for him and makes him extremely inconsistent in pure strength itself too.
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459938#Comment_3459938
¿ completely disagree
There little reward from preventing a hook if the killer can just drop, let the wiggle meter regress, and pick right back up. They will not move that far away from body to give other survivor a chance to pick up. Of course they will proxy camp the slug into than! why would they leave? When the hook is still very much obtainable
Because sabotage duration is long enough to the point just staying there makes it waste of time, and that is largely made from assumption wiggle meter regress quickly which wasn't the case, survivors can even move to pallet within that time anyway.
It doesn't really matter if killer decided to proxy camp slugged body because without counter perks it's guaranteed to get immediate down after pick up, it doesn't matter if killer decided to not do it because if then killers will just ignore it's existence and consider it as a pressure value, removing regression did nothing to help those while tremendously hurting last survivors by forcing killers to slug them.
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@GreyBigfoot said:
It's a lot like being mindful of generator placements, to complete them strategically and ensure you don't 3-gen. Very rarely do I even encounter this problem, because even in a corner of a map or exit gate, there's almost always two hooks you can reach. If you encounter this often, you're probably winning your matches anyway. If it's a sabotage SWF, then you can play smart and counter their efforts. Or just slug them if they want to act the fool.
Though, I do wish that a Scourge Hook would transfer to another hook, to ensure that you always have 4 on the map. Because sometimes the only good one gets used several times and you can't get to the others, especially on a map like RPD.
If it doesn't matter for 99% of games anyway, why does it even exists.
And it doesn't even affect killers that much because bleeding out is a thing.
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Have you played wraith and managed to win 90% of games?
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459910#Comment_3459910
"Actually, for some extremely weird reasons even managed to make it so survivors won't regress wiggling progress during being slugged, making them unhookable if killer failed at it once and dropped it."
what would be the point of the already weak sabotage mechanic if u can literally drop without any consequences. body blocks would be significantly weaker as well
? the point is that you prevented hooking, allowing survivors to pick up dying survivor and get the value from certain perks, and if you don't have those perks killers would just hit him again and hook it anyway, if killer wasn't interested in proxy camping slugged bodies then it doesn't really matter because he will not be picked up by killer regardless.
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@Sharby said:
I think Wiggle, Hook Spawns, Hook #, and Hook interaction with Sacrifices are all pretty outdated and most likely need reworks.
But the problem is that they're functional enough to where its very low priority I'd imagine. The amount of times survivors abuse a deadzone would be pretty minimal, not to mention pulling it off right without just bleeding out seems unlikely.
Actually, for some extremely weird reasons they even managed to make it so survivors won't regress wiggling progress during being slugged, making them unhookable if killer failed at it once and dropped it.
It's unbelievable because all it does is making survivor's life unnecessarily miserable.
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how blastmine works with enduring? if blind and stun is a two separate effect I think enduring should be changed to work with blastmine.
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Worst part is it ridiculously hurts the console players all while M&K players casually riding the sway.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459847#Comment_3459847
They fixed Doctor though to some extent. Absolutely zero changes for Skull Merchant though. 🤗
For some reason they are trying to fix the generator itself, rather than skull merchant.
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I think there was a time doctor considered "holding game hostage", but in that situation he even refused to hit survivor or something, not sure if it will be considered like such this time.
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100 is nothing, if we are likely to not get him back during anniversary, it has to be 1000.
No joke, that's the amount we gain in anniversary.
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I'm fine with it as long as BHVR don't ever try to "compensate" this by nerfing literally everything we have, they have tendency to NOT do something we can just be thankful. (see: prestige rework).
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Pretty much agreed, Hope had 7% haste all time and that alone is already god damn strong as is and never been a problem, what's truly problematic in MfT is the fact you can basically extend every chase during 80% of actual games without any real risk or effort.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459220#Comment_3459220
Isn't it kinda contradictory to say the 3% speedbuff doesn't matter as much for skullmerchant cause she doesn't have a chase power and then say the 3% makes a enormous difference for survivors against killers who don't have a chase power?
Not to mention that the 3% of skull merchant is bigger then survivors 3% cause of the higher base speed
Skullmerchant gets 0.138 extra meters per second while survivors 0.12
0.6+0.138=0.738 and 0.6-0.12=0.48, it's 13.550 seconds(0.738), 16,6 seconds(0.6) and 20.833 seconds(0.48) for 10 meter straight line I think, the difference is 3.05 seconds and 4.233 seconds for each.
To me it seems survivors being faster having more impact if we just look at numbers, idk why.
Is it even correct numbers?