fulltonon
fulltonon
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@Mockingjay_S451 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452135#Comment_3452135
Exactly this. They didn’t even try to pick me up. There is no way I escape here. They were slugging people the whole match to try to get a down while somebody else was slugged. We still managed all 5 gens and me and a Claudette are caught at end game. He hooked her, I went for the door. He downs me and just leaves me. There were plenty of hooks around and he never tried to pick me up. I wouldn’t have wiggled as there is no escaping really.
You can't know anything, really.
If there is a chance you better choose safer way.
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It's a quirk, he have downside and upside, notably he can't really hit at all even if he hits survs from far away, I don't think this will be considered as "unfair" or anything.
I just wish him to have something better than tunneling though...
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What's truly debatable is whether their "countermeasure" actually works or not, lul
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Honestly there isn't much reason beside "because it exists".
If it exists, people can give it to someone, plain and simple.
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Honestly this should've been a thing every month or two imo, they literally stated they are going to change lot more things lot more often, as opposed to staying in stale state for looong time.
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Same thing happens with undetectable/stealth killer perks too, kinda strange design decision.
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I'm more interested in whether camping nerf actually works or not lol
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Wait, people actually gets fully infected? despite there is whopping 12 charges across all game?
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3449533#Comment_3449533
The finisher Mori they tested on the PTB absolutely, 100% encouraged slugging. There were videos, while rare or requiring certain killers to pull off, where the killer could manage to slug all 4 survivors within the first couple minutes and simply end the game with 0 hooks at 5 gens immediately.
No other method in the game would have been faster at closing out matches if that has gone live, so every game would've been a ######### fest whack-a-mole ######### show.
Even in it's 'purest' form with only 2 survivors remaining, killers would've just continued to slug for the 4k and saved on hooks while still denying hatch.
So the answer to your question is maybe. If they implemented something like the cypress Mori it *might* discourage slugging for the 4k. But most likely killers would just continue to slug to deny hatch, then hook the 3rd and Mori the last.
It all depends on what they have in mind for the reworked finisher system, but I doubt it will reduce slugging for the 4k. The only thing that will do that is a hatch rework
That's just objectively wrong, game will end for 99% of times even on live server if killer somehow manages to slug all four of survs.
It doesn't encourage anything, just makes game faster and that's literally all the things it does.
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@DudelPuma said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3450355#Comment_3450355
people who camp and tunnel will still do it because making a 4k is the best tactic, if you really think that a perk convinces people to play differently or it was like that then please side with bhvr because i have to you and bhvr believing that disappoint, the only perk that really got the killer fear of tunneling was ds, even nurse and blight slugged to avoid being hit by ds, well never mind :D if that's what bhvr's intenstion is behind it is (only God and you know the reason) either way, that's not the right way, from "we don't want a meta" to "we create a meta that wasn't there before", small spoiler I still play Coorupt, DeadLock, Noed + NWO and continue camping & tunneling xD
if you seriously can't believe the fact pop helps people to not go for tunnel/camp and still have fun in the game, at that point you are believing the things you just want to believe.
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@Ithiria said:
People often say that chase music exists is a balancing measure, as without it it'd be virtually impossible to escape the killer since it'd be vastly easier to hear your footsteps and breathing.
I have no been able to find a primary source on this, but given how prolific the rumor is, I'd err on assuming that it is how the devs see the game. It would not be coincidental that nurse's rework recently gave her some of the loudest music in the game, and that the "music" option doesn't affect it.
So if that's the case this is unlikely. I do agree with you though, I think this is implemented in a really toxic way where different chase musics are much louder than others, which encourages players to turn up their sound to be able to hear footsteps and the like, damaging their hearing.
Honestly, all those extremely negligible "balance measure" can be scrapped altogether without harming game in any way.
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@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3449249#Comment_3449249
Kill rates will definitely increase as the result of this change. According to Nightlight, shadowborn is used by 7.2% of killer players, giving it for free will allow these players to equip one new perk. Say, this new perk improves their killrate by +10%, then the overall killrate will increase by 0.7%. That's just mathematical, and ONLY considering current shadowborn users.
But in reality, EVERYONE will use the new FOV, not just those who equip Shadowborn. We're already seeing everyone use the visual terror radius and that thing barely even gives any advantage. Now imagine what will happen for increased FOV, which unlike visual terror radius, gives an advantage that players DON'T already have. Everyone will equip it, motion sick or not. As a result, experienced killers can use it hide the red stain a bit more, they will be less affected by FOV techs so the survivor gameplay will change. Killer streamers will use it so the viewer experience will be different. Etc.
I'm all for accessibility features, but they must have a trade-off, otherwise they will be used by everybody including those who don't need them. In the latter case, they shouldn't be considered accessibility features but an actual gameplay change. The current shadowborn, gives an advantage to everybody, including people without motion sickness, but abuses are prevented by the fact that you need a perk for it, so mostly the people with real motion sickness use it. I'd argue the visual terror radius thing, should have come at some expense as well, eg. reduced radius for the sound-based one.
0.7% increase, yeah that's totally bigger than whatever perk nerfs/buffs/survivor "QoL" changes does, Seriously why do we care.
I believe if you really want to keep kill rates as is, you should be lot more angry against all the balance changes they gonna do lol
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If WoO becomes OP, that is pretty much equivalent to maps being OP.
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@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3449324#Comment_3449324
“The screenshot shows that your team massively screwed up” im sorry that im playing solo que on an indoor map vs a killer with hex third seal. “It takes one person to bring unbreakable” sorry i couldn’t tell my teammates to bring it since again im solo que.
“killer was way better than you” i got downed 1 time in this match if thats all it takes for the killer to be better than me in a game then ok i guess.
just give us a bleed out button. Thats ill take that. But your “just bring unbreakable soul guard” (you cant be serious about no mither) take was very unfair
"Just give us free rights of disconnection and arbitrary denial of 4k" is hardly fair tbh.
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3449197#Comment_3449197
u don't verse nurse a lot do you
Considering how low her kill rate is, even if you verse half of them are potatoes anyway.
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@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3449214#Comment_3449214
Higher FOV has just as many implications in 1st person, as in 3rd person. Most 1st-person games limit FOV to a low value (eg. Overwatch limits it at 107). So if you see why that's "obviously a problem" in 3rd person - quoting you - then you can't argue that it's not a problem in 1st person.
I'm just showing people who make the argument that this is QoL, that it's not. It has gameplay implications. One big implication in particular, is that with a high enough FOV, the killer could hide the red stain in chase, while still seeing the survivor.
As soon as BHVR makes the FOV slider available, literally everyone will put it to the max, there's no downside to it even for people who don't suffer from motion sickness. You might argue that killers need this buff, I'd argue they don't, but in any case treating it as QoL is dishonest.
Because, you can literally see something that you can't with third person
No, it's not something you can see just by moving mouse around, you can literally see something you are not supposed to see from that exact positions.
"saves you from moving screen extremely quickly just to see people" and "allows you to see something you can't" is entirely different things, former is what shadowborn does and latter is what square resolution did (aka survivor FoV does).
And in the end it doesn't matter if it's qol or not, kill rates will not even move in slightest even with all those "advantage" I'm pretty sure.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3449213#Comment_3449213
I am calm, thanks i guess?
All you are saying this mechanic is not removing anything but it does.
You are the last man standing and you have UB + DS (active), you down and you all are dead.
You have active Delivarance but you can't use it because you are the last man standing. You down and everyone are dead.
Actually why i am trying to explain. Whatever i tell, you will just decline. So guess what, i should do like how you do:
You are just wrong, this mechanic will destroy survivor gameplay. Everything you said is just wrong.
All those situations are pretty much extremely niche, basically 3/4 of times you WILL get values of all those perks.
And killers can always deny hook/wiggle related perks just by NOT picking them up at all, so that's moot too.
On top of it, if you utilize those things only at last man standing, you will lose anyway because game is in already catastrophic state.
If you seriously believe this mechanics somehow "destroys" survivor gameplay, I suppose no words can help you understand what it actually does.
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Honestly BHVR ACTUALLY should do something ridiculous like this, otherwise they do think "this is fine because kill rates are good" even though game has countless design flaw.
We have to face the problem even if it kills the game for a month or two.
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@SkeletalElite said:
I think it would be cool if dark theory instead revealed the killer's aura to survivors while the killer was within the boons radius instead of buffing the speed boost aspect of it. That way it makes it so the killer can't really win any mind games while chasing in its radius.
Your description seems to be extremely problematic perk.
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@Saiph said:
Since this is just a QoL change and not a buff, can survivors have it too? I get motion sickness when looping as survivor, please let me increase the FOV and also move the camera a bit further behind so that I can see the whole tile.
Third person and First person is entirely different things, at least you could have slightly widened horizontal FoV but definitely not the vertical.
or perhaps you are trying to be sarcastic as "can see whole tile" is obviously a problem lol, I don't know.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3449200#Comment_3449200
Oh yeah, let's add mechanic will remove value from UB, DS, Delivarance and other second chance perks.
Let's add mechanic which will make UB needed and you can use it only for one time.
Let's remove base-kit UB because this was the only problematic part.
Let's remove hatch chance for the last survivor.
Killer no longer will worry about out from hooks because no needed!
Let's add everything else, it's not gonna be problem because it is no longer affect killers. So it should be okay.
Can I ask you to be more... calm, I guess? and talk with something actually meaningful?
Basekit mori DID NOT remove any value from UB, DS, Deliverance and whatever second chances after all, and basekit mori DID NOT made UB needed in any way, and then you don't have hatch chance even on live server, and there was no time killer had to worry about hooks because they always had the capability to bleedout.
Everything you've said there is literally just objectively wrong, and doesn't makes sense in any way.
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@illNicola said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3449082#Comment_3449082
They have 0 arguments, they just say killers are OP when they have played 3 games in their life.
With my SWF I win even without meta perks, 90% of the people on this forum have a heavy skill issue, and that wouldn't be a problem if they minded their own business and tried to improve, instead they come here to complain about things that aren't true.
I'd be curious too to see them play, both surv and killer
It's not "90% of people on this forum", actually it's "90% of the players of DbD".
I mean, pig IS legit strong killer according to kill rates, that tells something interesting about the players.
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Made For This is already a mistake, I don't think we needs another one of it.
Giving non time limited haste to survivor is already a bad idea as is.
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It doesn't make slugging any more viable than it already is, it will SLIGHTLY help them but not a meaningful amount of buffs, and it actually HELPS those who being slugged as killers can't waste survivor's time by leaving them on ground.
So yeah, this wouldn't be problematic, at all, and realistically speaking people WILL NOT use comeback perks anyway so that's hardly a problem either, and even if they take it they can almost always use those BEFORE killers manages to slug four.
I think people should stop being so ridiculous and pretend like this is a big problem.
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3449197#Comment_3449197
It's not happen that much because people are not using slugging builds so much. But yet, i am seeing sometimes.
If this system comes to live without base-kit UB, people will abuse the system. So big no for this. We don't need base-kit UB or finishing mori. Unhealthy designs.
There is literally no way to "abuse" this mechanics in any way, because all it does is pretty much ending already concluded matches faster.
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@Maelstrom808 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3449169#Comment_3449169
That's absolutely false. I do this stuff all the time in my games. All you do with this is ensure that the killers that play fun and friendly never do so again.
You are like one in millions, the difference is nonexistent.
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@HugTheHag said:
Hopefully the finisher mori doesn't make a return either.
I very much like Devour and Rancor having their moris, and the way it was implemented prevented giving hatch, slug races, all kinds of fun that are arguably some of the best things the game has in term of player interaction.
Just make yellow mori basekit, give survivors an instant bleedout key once they've been slugged for more than 30s, and call it a day.
Those "interaction" will not happen in any actual matches at all, especially when everyone try for win.
So yeah that's not really a great reasoning, and yeah we don't need yet another method to freely DC neither, it's already harmful.
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Here goes the shroud of separation!
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UB can only activates once, doesn't seems to be that good tbh.
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Chicken or egg discussion is generally pointless as it doesn't really matter at this point tbh.
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@Rogue11 said:
Nice. Scrap the finisher mori system too and call it a day.
What's the point?
Finisher mori literally gave no advantage at all, all it did was stop wasting BOTH survivors AND killers time, yet people somehow got mad at how it "encouraged slugging" even though capability of killers were no different from live server.
They were ignorant at best and disingenuous at worst, it was ridiculous tbh.
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I wish BHVR to stop designing maps because that's pretty much waste of time and also seemingly every new maps added gives more harms than good.
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@WorthlessBeing said:
Maybe in custom games but it'd put you at a huge disadvantage compared to other survivors
I mean fair amount of people don't play SWF despite it obviously puts them at huge disadvantage, I suppose that's not a problem.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448128#Comment_3448128
Imagine if those generators could do themselves simply by survivors doing nothing after working on them for a moment. But were supposed to be Ok with the killer winning by leaving everyone on the ground and ignoring the hooks. Maybe its not about survivors needing to play better as much as its about killers playing without abusing slugging. The killer and survivor power difference in this game is too wide.
LOL, killer downed survivors, which is equivalent of generators, what are you talking about.
And yeah I still agree, if everyone is downed killers should get 12 hooks and instantly win, so no one has to waste time.
@KateMain86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448133#Comment_3448133
I'm guessing you didn't read my OP or really look at the screenshot I posted above. Its one thing for survivors to be punished for their mistakes, but leaving 3 people on the ground just so you can guarantee you get the 4k is abusing slugging. In the screenshot I posted above you can see that 2 of the 3 survivors on the ground are recovered and the third is almost there. This should never be possible. These survivors should be able to pick themselves up after being on the ground for that long. All of this happened because the killer refused to hook the survivors which is their primary objective. Killers who refuse to hook survivors in a timely manner should be punished for it. There is no positive argument for this.
That's purely your subjective opinion and game isn't made like that at all.
But alas BHVR gonna hear for those kind of things, sadge.
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Removing skill factor on not an exactly best killer in the game is probably incorrect way to change it, unneeded.
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Yeah I wish so, because with that change I can repeatedly slug and slug all the low MMR survivors.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3447801#Comment_3447801
Plenty of killers don't run aura perks and manage just fine. If you struggle to find survivors without an aura perk, would that be considered a crutch perk?
Excessive hiding is considered holding the game hostage and literally against the rules, so "plenty of killers don't run aura perks and manage just fine" is plain lie.
Killers don't have practical tools to find them, unless they have some power to achieve it.
It's just that most of survivors don't have capability to properly hide, especially on low-level regions.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3447767#Comment_3447767
Wonderful. I'll go with an old example.
Would you rather have the person who wants out of the game dead or following you around for unhooking them, dropping every pallet in the map, leading the killer to you, body blocking you and intentionally missing skill checks?
What is more hostile to your experience? Them simply being not present or actively sabotaging you?
Except, the truth is, most of those who DC do not want to do such act.
99% of players who gonna dc/suicide will just try to win if they can't leave, losing against the killer is the worst thing they can get, they might not like killers but that's not always the case against their "teammates".
And do note those kind of acts are against the rules too, so since we can obviously report them, I suppose it's nice thing to actually punish those who harming the game?
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@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3446152#Comment_3446152
With ds and off the record turned of in the endgame, how are you supposed to protect yourself from going down immediately after getting unhooked? Do you not remember what it was like getting unhooked with 0 bt just for the killer to hit you down immediately?
also if you hook the survivor next to the game with multiple people still alive, why do you deserve to win that game?
You aren't supposed to protect yourself in endgame, never ever.
It is valid until endgame, but in the endgame it really isn't.
Don't ask me why this is basically how BHVR designed the game.
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@lifeisstrange said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3447667#Comment_3447667
Well solo que potatoes need a wake up call and should just run distortion. It is specially annoying that the ones who get found by lethal and gets down early then baby rage quit/dc. I also love to sit on my 95% comfy and not have to worry about some high mobility killer forcing me off it.
Even before people start using distortion tunneling been a thing forever so those who say amma tunnel your team mates then since I cant ever find you is a poor excuse(not saying you specifically).
If anyone starts running distortion, all the things killers can do at that point is literally just camp and tunnel, because which is only consistent way to find the survivors.
So call it excuse or not, it tells they are never tried to save their teammates and certainly not altruistic at all, not sure if they are selfish or not though.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433814#Comment_3433814
Not everyone has Adam tho
Then just don't try to get every achievements? like do you think anyone gonna complain for adepts because "not everyone have that character" lol
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@Chordyceps said:
I think the self-unhook is important if for making sure there's interactivity at every. I don't think a survivor should every be in a scenario where their only option is to just sit there and wait. Self-unhook gives survivors something to do while hooked, and could allow them to make a comeback.
Then just remove penalties, and maybe reduce the chances, who cares if they got free (extremely low) chance of unhook? it doesn't happen normally anyways.
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It's quite strange how they decide not to kill switch all those broken maps, they shouldn't have made those maps at all tbh.
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If they finish the gen instead of progressing it to 90 and suddenly start repairing other generators, it's gen rushing.
why stop killers from defending the gen? they want to defend the gen just like how survivors want to play the game, lol.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
You cannot force people to play a game they do not want to play.
Except you can very well make them play the game they may otherwise easily quits, that's exactly what DC penalty does, and surprisingly it made people quit less!
Yeah we should remove kobeing and make DC penalty little harsher, it benefits game a lot without penalizing normal players.
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No, make every killers move at 3.0 and somehow they would still have 51% kill rates on average.
I'm sure about it.
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Or literally remove skillcheck altogether, that doesn't make much changes while removing penalty for missed skillchecks.
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@roundpitt said:
I disagree. I’ve secured four kills during EGC when none were dead when it started.
Also, before EGC existed people just hid until hell froze over.
EGC doesn't stop anyone from hiding, do you know what people do when another one is slugged? hide.
They can always chose to hide, this is just that they usually don't.
And if you secured kills during EGC, that is just because survivor decided to give you it or some extremely badly designed perk made it work, such things are literal noise for statistics and shouldn't exist in the game.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I'd disagree. I've seen a lot of games snowball during EGC.
Which only happens when opponent intentionally made it happen, all on their side.
boring as heck.
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I don't really use this nowadays because other aura reading perks are generally superior (notably darkness revealed), so yeah it's not entirely useless but lost majority of values when they nerfed BP.
You can freely think it isn't reduced in number and somehow gets mad at objectively correct "accusations" you've got, doesn't change the fact it is much less appealing.
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Or... alternatively, we could nerf everything survivors have because it's lot bigger problem for average killers than survivor issues, then we can move on to addon/camping/whatever problems.
Just think about it, it's not like toolboxes haven't been complained before the medkits nerf, so we should deal with BOTH things first!