danielmaster87
danielmaster87
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@UnknownKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/337028/anyone-else-tired-of-legion
Well legion is easier than Nurse and blight so now you got more killers.
He may be easier to play, but not to win with. But yes, a killer being strong instead of bully material tends to lead to more killer variation, instead of the same 2-3 being seen all the time.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3092476#Comment_3092476
Where are you to have the dream scenarios of 4 survivors do 80% on 4 Gens
Because Deadlock blocks the almost done gens, they push other gens to almost done, when they're done with one they go back to the others.
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@Mert_MK said:
"Camping and tunnelling were nerfed into oblivion with the base kit BT and OTR changes."
LMAO
More like heavily buffed with the unnecessary nerf to DS. Basekit BT is a joke and OTR is not an issue at all with how much buffs Killers received to end chases faster.
If you still find yourself getting "genrushed" it's a skill issue at this point.
Maps i can somewhat agree with. There can be some really busted setups but for the most part it's just deadzones really.
Man i was really hoping you were joking with this post...
You can still get gen rushed. The added 10 seconds didn't do much. For example: Deadlock, a supposedly OP killer perk, blocks a gen, but then survivors push a different gen. They keep doing this, and soon there's 4 gens at 80%. And don't even start with dream scenarios of having Pentimento AND 4 stacks of Thana up at the same time.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3092429#Comment_3092429
There was not though. The grind reduction is only there if you play multiple characters. For example, for killers it is reduced if you play all the killers (like me) but on survivor for example, i used to only have to level one to 40 to get their perks, then jump back to my main survivor and get the new perks. Now i have to at least prestige 1 the survivor, which requires them to be level 50 + 20k BPs for the prestige. So that fact alone is more.
Wrong. Survivors are skins; they all play the same. You don't have to play a character to level them up.
Let's just pretend the 20k node isn't there. You're getting perks on every other character you have, for free, once you Prestige someone. How is that less than what we had before?
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@MaudetteClorel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3092425#Comment_3092425
Tell me that again after I’m done versing the 5th legion in a row with 30-40 minute games each.
Why is your team letting the matches last that long? Are they running away to heal to full every time he hits them?
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I tried to read the essay fully but I'm just gonna find more of the same: You're making it seem as if you've broken it down to a science and that if killer does A then B then C, it's a foolproof way to win the game no matter what. The reality is that there is no scenario in which the killer is guaranteed a win. The survivor objective is faster, it's easier, there's plenty of tools survivors have to make them go even faster, and that's with survivors consistently going down to the killer in 20 seconds or less.
Everything just seems like it's the most ideal situation possible for the killer, the way your described it. I was astonished when you began by talking about survivors being slow and unproductive in the beginning, searching chests, doing totems, and stacking 3 people on 1 gen. Surely you realize that beginning of the game is actually the worst position for the killer, because they have pressure on nobody if not 1 person. This is not even going into mid-game where everyone's on gens, most of them are done, the survivors have multiple second chance perks active, and the killer's struggling to end chases quickly.
Survivors punish you no matter what you do. If you tunnel, if you camp, if you slug, if you run slowdown perks, if you run chase perks, if you do all of that or if you don't do any of that. They rush gens, and simply tap each other out of bad situations if you for a second let up on your slugging or camping. You overextended slugging, they 1-tap and everyone's up. You looked away from the hook for a second, the survivor's suddenly there and is unhooking.
I don't know if you factored in scenarios where survivors have perks, maps, and items that especially counter whatever it is you're trying to do as killer, but clearly it doesn't matter to you because killer will JUST find a way out of it with steps B and C. In your mind, the killer is never outmatched, and pure skill and strategy will win out in the end every time. I think most of us used to believe that, but no longer do.
So I don't know what you're up to. Maybe trying to argue that killer is a walk in the park, but that hasn't been true, and it ISN'T coming true.
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There undoubtedly was a lot of grind reduction, but it still doesn't excuse the 20k bp nodes that you have to buy in order to Prestige. It should be free.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/337187/devs-dont-be-fooled
There ARE changes that need to be made. Gens SHOULD go back to 80 seconds. The chase changes were strong enough. STBFL needs adjusted. DS stun needs to go back to 5 seconds. Or stay at 3 seconds and activate both hook states.
The match lasting a minute longer is going too far, huh?
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There is massive support for survivors to just DC if they don't like how the match is going. It's promoted at this point.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3092339#Comment_3092339
At some point, I'd say yes, it is. A survivor quitting because the killer is using a forever build isn't that different from the killer quitting because the survivors are playing a forever game (such as sabo-oak-Exponential-Boil Over RPD, No Mither Soul Guard Breakdown shenanigans, a full team abusing double locker saves with Built To Last, or just any old bully squad that completely outmatches the killer and refuses to end the game.) At some point, it's obvious the other side is trolling you and there is zero potential for fun in the match by a near-universal definition of the word, win or lose. Do I condone DCs? No. Do I understand people dying early, giving up, or going into a corner and refusing to play? Absolutely.
Granted, I think the OP's build could have been worse, but I've played a few Thana Legions and it's about as enjoyable as deepthroating barbed wire. I don't give up for the sake of my teammates, but if the whole party agrees that they want to go next, that's one of the most valid reasons to ######### on hook that I've ever seen.
Edit: I should add that the lynchpin isn't "I'm not having fun in this match", it's "this match will take ages to complete on its own, to the point where it could be considered soft hostage taking."
If people are complaining about matches taking too long, then they can't complain about tunneling because it ends the match faster.
Also, you're comparing apples to oranges, because these situations you're talking about, the killer or survivors holding the game hostage because of the overwhelming advantage they have, almost never happen (certainly not for the killer). Even survivors, as petty as they are, don't ever get in a SWF just to make each other unkillable and not do gens/escape. That just doesn't happen. Maybe 1/1000 at best.
But the main point is, we're now excusing survivors who DC because they think that the match is unwinnable, even when that's never the case. Self-fulfilling prophecy. And the real kicker is that it's somehow the killer's fault, because he's being "toxic" because he ran slowdown perks.
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@VcatoV86 said:
Developers have been listening almost exclusively to killers. For years.
Don't believe me?
1.) "Maps are too dark. I can't find Blendette!" Maps were redesigned and brightened.
2.) "Loops are too hard! They are godloops!" Almost* (all?) godloops were erased. Most decent loops were taken out as well.
3.) "Gens pop too quickly! I can't do anything!" Gen time was increased.
4.) "Hooks are too far apart! Survivors are abusing this!" Hooks were brought closer together.
5.) "Deadhard is too much! They get 2 seconds extra time in a chase/miss my hit (even though they gained exhaustion)!" DH was nerfed.
6.) "Decisive strike is not fair! If they are down, I deserve to get a hook!" DS was nerfed.
7.) "Flaslights are too OP! I can't play against them!" Flashlights were adjusted/overhauled.
8.) "Keys and hatches are not fair! I deserve to kill everyone!" Keys and hatch were nerfed.
Now before you say: "Well, killers were a little underwhelming and SWF was too strong"--I agreed! But gain some perspective on just how much the devs always, for years, have catered to the killers.
Complaining about forever Legion is the least of your concerns.
All of those killer complaints were valid! Killers have gotten so many buffs because killer sucks! And you say you agree with our positions, but you're bashing the devs based on this false narrative that killers were "exclusively 'catered' to." I mean which is it?
And let's stop with these "forever builds." Killer has never had a forever build. Survivors have the end say, because they choose if they want to be efficient or not, just like the killer does except gens go quicker than hooks. Facing a build with a bunch of slowdown just means you can't go down to the killer constantly and still rush gens. And that's easy to do, since they don't have anything dedicated to chase perks.
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@[Deleted User] said:
It sounds like they just didn’t want to play that slog of a game. How can you even tell they’re a bully swf?
This just reeks of you wanting to subject players to what you already know isn’t going to be fun then getting upset when they aren’t playing along.
How can you take the survivors' side in this? Is it now okay to DC or give up because the mean killer used a certain build?
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Only noobs are still running Pop and Ruin. Dead perks.
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Lol no. 3-genning has never been a foolproof solution, and I'm tired of people pretending it is. I just did a whole stream, with all different killers and builds, dedicated to disproving why 3-genning doesn't work against good survivors. It was either overkill or underkill; we either didn't make it to 1 gen, they split the map, or they overcame the 3-gen. Survivors win the war of attrition, and there's nothing the killer can capitalize on if they just play safe and use second chance perks.
Every time this is brought up, it seems like people just blanket statement "you JUST make a dead zone" or "you JUST make a 3-gen happen". Yep, that's totally how a match plays out, right? Kind of like how you JUST hook the survivor on the scourge hook to get "free regression."
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@Tactrix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3092156#Comment_3092156
I don't know, I think the chasing and stabbing and downing is pretty fun. To be honest the killing is the most boring part, because then you can't chase them anymore. They just hang there all sad.
Stone-faced and blinking occasionally.
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I think Off The Record as well as DS deactivates as soon as the 5th gen is done, not when the egc starts.
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No, YOU don't need kills. But I need kills, or else I feel I've wasted my time. It's kind of the point of picking "killer".
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@Gindaen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090193#Comment_3090193
300 suboptimal teams in a row. Isn't this amount of mental gymnastics fit for the olympics?
Suboptimal teams and teams that easily could have won but they wanted to get all 4 out or were valuing their own survival over the team dynamic. The best Nurses that play in tournament, WITH survivors being handicapped on what they can bring, regularly lose to those teams. 1-2 kills max.
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@Alionis said:
I mean, the addon tells you precisely which trumps the other, that's what descriptions are for.
No it doesn't. Where does it say on Tombstone Piece "does not work with Fragrant Tuft Of Hair"? Whereas Fragrant Tuft Of Hair says "unlimited Tier 3 duration." Am I wrong in thinking that the answer to this question isn't obvious?
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090190#Comment_3090190
You are just trying to twist my words and aren’t even consistent with it („positives and negatives“ but also „not solving any problems“?)
i don’t think Bond and Kindred should be completely basekit in their current state as they give too much information, which would also make many other perks pointless. Also the most important informations can be brought in other ways such as the already from dev side talked about action icons.
SWF don’t actually have built in Bond/Kindred. They have communication and coordination, which isn’t the same as constant accurate aura reveals.
I really wasn't. It just seemed like you were trying to play both sides of the argument.
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Let me clarify for those saying the meta hasn't changed: They're saying that perks have changed but the ideas are still there. You can't take off slowdown for killer and you can't take off anti-tunnel+ for survivor.
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@Anara said:
You are wrong.
The meta has changes. Ive seen a lot of Overcharge, Call of Brine, Dragon's Grip.
And I saw a lot of chase perks not much used before.
This patch is a blessing.
Dragon's Grip is only being played because of the challenge. People gave up on making that perk work a long time ago.
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@fulltonon said:
There could be a way to prove dbd isn't balanced, but I doubt any streamer win streaks can prove anything.
They're based off of getting matched with suboptimal teams, and then having your streak taken away by the 1 good team. That's all it is.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090130#Comment_3090130
Not what I meant. Just tried to say it won’t really solve the problems on survivor side in general as this change wouldn’t be only beneficial.
also it’s not really griefing/exploiting really, survivors are meant to be able to play egoistical and just leading the killer to others isn’t directly against any rules.
I'm trying to make this^ make sense:
So base Kindred and Bond would somehow lead to negatives as well as positives. And, assuming that, the negatives wouldn't be against the rules, so survivors are free to do it? Is it even a negative then, if it gives them more freedom of choice and isn't breaking any rules? Also, it wouldn't solve ANY problems for survivor?
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@JibbyNeutron said:
hahaha I told you guys, here we are. Not enough nerfs and buffs, lets tune it up even more for the Killers
You're right. It's still not enough. Play Pig. Play Ghost Face. Play Freddy.
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@Seraphor said:
Survivors are adapting and learning how to deal with the increased gen speeds. This includes using gen speed perks, toolboxes, and generally playing cautiously so that they can more effectively counter regression.
It might feel like gens are getting done faster than before the patch, but that's just survivors using tactics that when used before the patch would result in 'genrushing', or even faster gens.
This. This is what nobody's talking about. Let's bring back the discussion, which we were more than comfortable in having pre-patch, that survivors don't even have to deal with how strong the killer is as long as they do gens fast. Increased gen times and killer qol changes that make them do stuff quicker is fine, because the gens still fly when the survivors are efficient.
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I still have yet to see a reason why there should be a cost to Prestige at all under the new system. Prestiging was free before, it was optional, and everyone would have done it had it not gotten rid of everything their characters had. In a patch partly dedicated to reducing the grind, I was appalled to see that we had to spend tens of thousands of BP each time we Prestiged. Under no circumstances does reducing the grind justify adding in new grind.
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@EvilSerje said:
I'm speaking about "Strength in numbers" challenge, where you have to have at least one survivor escape while you still in match.
Trivia (can skip to the next part)
Another SoloQ example. I'm 1.2K hours (so no comments like "you just have to play more"). I almost never used DH before, so nothing new for me perkwise, using same familliar loadout.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2P8VZPLY5EIC/image.png
Only once I escaped through hatch as last survivor.
Only 3 games were not 4K.
I have starting to get lots of gold and iri "Evader" emblems and be in chases longer than 2 minutes (exept nurse, ofc), which means killers I'm matched with are completely unskilled. Yet almost everytime is 4K
Tunneling is off the charts!
Finally got that book challenge because was matched with 3 SWF bully squad and killer was fresh.
What i wanted to say
SoloQ is literally unplayable, unless you're some pro tournament streamer. Devs should get up the nerve and make a statement: survivor gameplay is supposed for friend play. SoloQ is not meant to be and it's at your own risk. No problem with that, many quesions will be ceased immediately.
System requirements: internet connection, PC/Xbox/PS, 3 friends
Let me give an example: Hunt Showdown. You play 3 vs 3, or 2 vs 2. You can go solo agains duos and gain "underdog" bonus, or agains trios and get super "underdog" bonus. So solo is officially left for streamers, tryhards and challengers. Everyone fine with that. Why just simply acknowledge the same thing in DbD?
That awkward "you kinda can play Solo, but kinda can't" is really disorienting.
Another thing that stumbles me
Why many perks switches off at the EGC? It's like "You lose, but you can play well and go to the end, and then lose anyway". Why? Why killer is obliged to have win? There's some quota?
Some perks are turned off in the endgame collapse because they give survivors a free escape. DS and Off The Record being active in endgame would give survivors even more tools to bully the killer and/or ensure that 4 survivors get out almost every time. They already get a free escape if they're the last one, because hatch opens. Assuming the killer closes hatch, the exits are powered, which is another escape, or the survivor can find a key and open hatch anyway.
Just because your games are going bad, and you or your teammates are probably to blame for that, doesn't mean that you should get stuff to equalize the little strength that the killer has, because when you give that stuff to SWF, they can abuse it and become literally unbeatable. We already see that with teams who jump in lockers (which locks the killer into a grab animation where they can't move or turn their head) so that their teammate can get a guaranteed flashlight stun, essentially making the person who went into the locker unkillable as soon as they get in there.
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@katoptris said:
They get less point if you are dead compare to a sacrifice.
And that's something that spiteful survivors use to deny the killer the points that they earned, all because unreachable hooks are the norm. They can just run to a certain area and get downed, and the killer either has to let them bleed out or let them keep wiggling off only to run back to that same spot.
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There are none as long as SWF is as game breaking as it is. Balancing for that will and has made it to where bad survivors can beat good killers. In order to win, killers have to be good on gens and chases, whereas survivors only have to be good on one.
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@Norhc said:
Definitely one of the worst parts of this update. Even on the evening killer queues are atrocious. Also, playing killer has never been a miserable experience if you were of above average skill. Survivors are just acting like entitled babies right now.
Killer has always been a miserable experience against survivors who know how to play the game.
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Bring back BP incentives!
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@Mooks said:
Counterargument: that SoloQ Ace I got matched with yesterday running both Kindred and Bond. Guess what he did? Always ran the killers to the others regardless what they were doing (on gens/on hook/on way to unhook).
i think the concept they talked about kn January (action icons) would be a great step in the right direction already..
So we're saying it's a bad idea based on people griefing and exploiting the game? This is the same argument that stops DS deactivation when fully healed from becoming a reality.
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I always hear people talk about Plague as if she's tournament viable or something. We can't even begin to talk about any slowdown synergy she has or "OP" combos until we address her problems for the killer player.
Unless you have a perfect connection with her, your puke isn't going to land on survivors around any kind of loop or obstacle about 70% of the time. If you deny her the fountains, she's an M1 killer the rest of the game, meaning she has to respect pallet and windows and attempt to mind game them. She has nothing else until she gets a red fountain. That buys the team more than enough time to push gens through even 3-4 stacks of Thana, because that's not even as much as Pentimento and I've seen teams push gens through that.
This is not even factoring in exhaustion perks, flashlights, or Off The Record shenanigans.
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I heavily scrutinize every time someone says that killer has something "free".
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
The best designed killer and he took from us. Nobody asked for rework but yet, BHVR did.
@GeneralV has topic to make him feel better and stronger. But they just changed Freddy instead buffing his basekit.
Best designed killer in what way?!
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@MrCalac123 said:
There is nothing enjoyable about Legion in any capacity.
No one likes mending simulator.
But what changed about mending since Legion's buff? Absolutely nothing. And y'all keep saying, "mending simulator" but Legion is only gonna be putting you in deep wound all the time if 1) they're bad because you're already injured, or 2) y'all keep healing to full against Legion (thus giving them an incentive to use their power because they get max value off it, which is why you shouldn't do it).
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@I_CAME said:
People pick legion because it’s a guaranteed win. There’s always someone in solo queue who just doesn’t want to deal with ANOTHER 45 minute thana legion game. They either immediately dc or suicide on the hook.
This is just another case of a self-fulfilling prophecy. They don't want to face Legion because, "Legion OP. We'll never win, so let's not even try." and so they DC, leaving the rest of the survivors to a losing game. THAT is why they're losing, not necessarily because the killer is too strong. It's disappointing that so many people still blame the killer instead of bad teammates.
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@StardustSpeedway said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3087173#Comment_3087173
Yep. Before this patch I'd usually 3k playing like that. With this update, it's even easier. I've been letting the survivors escape with this update though because it's rough for them and even easier now for killer. Playing chill is the most fun I have playing killer with whacky builds.
Well there you go. You're not facing higher caliber survivors because you're just letting people go.
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@StardustSpeedway said:
I always prioritize hooks over kills and I have the most fun this way!
But do you win?
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@foodie said:
I'm always left surprised and shocked when a killer is not tunneling, camping or proxy camping. That 1-2 K is too important to most, and you know these are the same people that complain of BT and DS. I don't play killer much but when I do, I don't camp or tunnel and I don't get hit by DS or tunnel the poor BT survivor. These perks are easily avoidable, and it's more fun to alternate hooked survivors than sit next to the hook and wait.
Some people just enjoy ruining other people's time whilst wasting their own. It's really the individual person's choice on how they want to play, and it seems most prefer to sit at hooks and chase the same person.
Taking a break from the game is healthy, I took a few years break and seeing how the game is not offering much, a new break might be coming.
But what kill rate does playing nice like that result in for you?
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Something that people aren't talking about is the real reason why killers are/would still tunnel. It's conditioning. For about 2 years, let's say, I played killer in a non-tunneling camping way, because naturally I wanted to go for chases. Only after those 1-2 years of losses did I realize that I needed to change the way that I played if I wanted to win. From then on, I was conditioned to go for tunnels and camps, with the only exception being if I knew it was a chill team.
It's going to take a lot for killers to change the way that they play, even after they've become strong enough to win games without camping or tunneling, because it's the play style that their minds associate with playing efficiently.
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3081065#Comment_3081065
Yes, I remember how my lightborn, mad grit, distressing, and dying light were ALL slowdowns
Yeah, ik, weird, but we exist
You're not gonna get through to them. I've been chewed up trying to argue that the game is still survivor sided. After all this time, they still don't get it. All you have to do to see what I talk about is play Pig with no slowdowns or something stupid like that, or even a serious build on a mid tier killer, and you will get games where you got 2-3 hooks before the gens are all done because (ding ding ding) you didn't camp or tunnel.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Please.
Killers said they will never tunnel/camp if survivors could not have second chance perks.
Killers said they will never tunnel/camp if gens took longer to finish.
Now all survivor meta destroyed and generators have really long time to finish with anti-gen builds. But killers are still camping and tunnelling.
If x happens the killers will stop camp/tunnel seems to me just an excuse.
Tell that to the survivors who bring in multiple Prove Thyselfs and toolboxes, neither of which were touched in this update.
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And why is it so huge?!
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Go ahead and nerf camping and tunneling. But make it to where killers can win without doing that. I am doubtful.
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@Anara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3081326#Comment_3081326
Im a main clown
Who, according to many here, is very easy to play and win with.
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@realflashboss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3083074#Comment_3083074
10 seconds extra per gen doesnt sound like anything- BUT it is a lot more impactful when theres a survivor being camped on hook or if you are against a high mobility killer with pop who can interrupt your gen.
Lol. Pop.
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@Moxie said:
Because Killers cried survivor's "get a free escape at the end of the game".
So you're saying that was a lie?
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And the game is still tough on 90% of the killer roster.