danielmaster87
danielmaster87
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When I used to get into more custom matches, I knew I was leagues above the other players in skill, so I just had to go easy on them with the builds that I brought. But bringing stupid stuff ended up backfiring sometimes. I brought old Scarred Hand Hag, and got destroyed. I brought Placebo Tablet/Adrenaline Vial Blight, and got destroyed. I brought Rickety Chain Deathslinger, and almost got destroyed. I ran pre-buff Blood Echo on Twins, and they were like, "We can't heal!" and "Blood Echo's OP!"
And when I'd play survivor and my friend really wanted to get me out of the match, I'd play safe as crap, pre-dropping almost every pallet and hugging obstacles super tight. And they're all like "He's playing like the best survivor ever right now." Obviously giving me an undeserved ego boost, all this stuff was.
I really need to play more custom matches. I just need enough friends to be in the mood.
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@WolfePhD said:
I personally believe from playing the game so much that Survivor matchmaking always puts an "experienced" player in a lobby of "unexperienced" players. This makes sense, otherwise players would never learn from each other in-game. When I am the "experienced" player, my unspoken role in the game is to play well enough that other players mimic my behavior. If I am playing against Hag and you see me crouch walk to the hook, that player on hook is watching and learning from my behavior.
In this game, I have observed the more playtime you have, the higher the chance that player is suicidal on hook. Players who are newer to the game do not tend to act like that, because they are still having fun playing the game. It sounds like you have high Survivor MMR and low Killer MMR based on the experiences you have shared.
Well, the killer MMR is almost irrelevant, almost. At the bottom level, killers should* be winning their matches, because whereas they're actually trying to kill, the survivors just don't have a clue. But I haven't been at that level in years and years, and wouldn't be surprised if through all the base buffs and things survivors have got, killers are doing badly at low levels as well. What I do know is at the mid and high levels, killers have it really rough, because those advantages plus the survivors' experience just keep piling up. But I also agree with you that even at high MMR, people just don't stop rage quitting. In that respect, low and high MMR survivor look the same, just intentional give ups on hooks vs unintentional because they're like, "Attempt escape? Let's try it!" So it's hard to place where our MMR is, because the devs refuse to show it.
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There's MMR. It was just done in a stupid way, to where it basically doesn't work. But I and others are tired of experiences like yours. Constant sweats as killer, constant babies as survivor.
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@[Deleted User] said:
You're not missing anything. Survivor macro play is probably the least understood thing by the community. The Nea or Nancy needed to not be seen and make into the basement, or they needed to stick gens and force the killer away from basement.
Not trying to be a snob, but it's something I learned playing survivor in comp when it comes to unhooks. Do it or don't, but you can't just stand there and do nothing. That goes for everyone on the team. And the last person who should be going into the basement is the person on death hook.
Yeah! Go in and be prepared to hook trade, or don't go in at all. I don't get people who go in, take a hit, and then run away... unless they know they got hit from too far, or just did something weird, and know they won't make the hook trade.
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I don't get how you can say all that, and still call her strong. I mean, we're talking parts of her power not even functioning, like the Search. I've literally experienced that, where I'm trying to select a gen, and it just won't lock on to it.
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It's sunk cost fallacy on the devs part because they put work into it, so they want to make it work even if it's bad, like Hillbilly overheat, although they abandoned the Twins rework.
It's a sunk cost fallacy on our part by thinking we're gonna do well by trying out different killers, their add-ons, and perks. Almost every time I get on, I try playing Deathslinger, and it's the most frustrating, least reward for the most risk, type thing. Before that it was Wraith, Hag, Doctor, Pig, etc. They're trash, because they can't compete with people who know what they're doing. We tried it, for years, including periods that were coined "the easiest time for killers."
This rework looks to be more of the same, and it started off so promising too. Projectile snares, actual pressure in chase, good tp abilities, and now everything's been dialed way the heck back, like they did with Chucky.
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@Rudjohns said:
It depends
Killer coming to slug from the get go, its rare. It was becoming common a while ago
For the 4k? 9 out of 10 gamesSo you lose 9/10 games?
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Almost never.
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Your idea is good. And you are right on what is wrong with these perks. They operate off of a fantasy land which doesn't exist, where the killer gets as much value from "playing from a losing position" perks/playstyles as he does pure gen defence or chase perks, and magically gets tons of momentum out of nowhere to bring the whole game back. That's like 1% of matches for the killers who actually try these builds. Deadlock is pathetic slowdown, not even 30 seconds. But compared to Eruption and trash like that, it's actually the better option. Shows you that the killer "meta" is just scraped from the bottom of the barrel, instead of legitimately strong or valuable stuff.
It makes sense for Fire Up to have SOME effect before the first gen pops, because if your first chase costs you 2-3 gens, which it all too often does, you're now less than 5 minutes from the match's end, giving you barely any time to use the increased kick speed. Even if you get max stats, and actually delay the end with No Way Out, so what? You're breaking pallets much faster, but the survivors are just pre-dropping everything because they can, because there's too many pallets. Even at the weak pallets, survivors would probably force you to Bloodlust them down rather than giving you value from your perk. And Fire Up x5 is not going to let you get the survivor before they get to the next loop, which is kind of the point of the perk. Blight and Wesker can barely even catch up after breaking pallet. That's how close together all these loops are.
And like you said, Fire Up gets stacks upon gen completion, so survivors who want to theoretically play around Fire Up would just 90% the gens and then do them all. Even doing that terrible play, the survivors would be advantaged, because you chose to bring Fire Up instead of an actually useful perk. This is why half of all killer perks see almost no play, because nobody wants to test and experiment with garbage options.
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@typervader said:
To give survivors a more fair mind game. Dream protection is still twice as fast as before so it's alot stronger for that alone
No, it was a fair mindgame for killer, and now it's blatantly survivor favoring. You lose distance on the person you were chasing, you incur the entire cooldown so you have to wait all that time to fake again/actually tp, all for a mere threat of tp'ing to a gen, which the survivors will clearly get to a safe spot anyway before you hit them anyway.
It's hard to explain these things sometimes, but I think the pushback against this stuff shows how low a level people think about this game. I argued that Freddy could fake his teleport with no cooldown, and he'd still only be decent, although it would be a nice tool against stronger survivors. But we can't even play around with fun ideas like that, because it's being argued that killers need slowdown AND long cooldowns for using their powers. It's an impasse.
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The report system straight-up doesn't function for PS4/PS5. The required video evidence is always incompatible with the website on console, as well as the report section on the forums. You can capture the evidence of the cheaters/griefers, but nothing ever lets you upload that kind of file type.
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@SoGo said:
Revert Wake Up. The end. Barely anyone will get mad over the PTB version.
And make Beast of Prey tied to leaving chases, not bloodlust. Keep the PTB numbers, and you're golden.
We ought to let you cook more often.
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Way to punish the killer for using his power: with lengthy cooldown. Can't they come up with anything else for balance? And I know it's two different effects, but if you look at the numbers, this is a net 1.5 second loss for the killer. Half a second longer slowdown for 2 seconds more of waiting. I can't believe they always play so safe with killer design.
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I might even be tempted to use this buffed version, but yeah that cooldown inclusion, if true, is terrible.
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@AssortedSorting said:
For your own personal games, yes.
Play competitively and you raise your MMR to face competitive people, who are typically not likely to give up at the drop of the hat.
They still do. I believe Scott was right when he said in another video that more veteran players are more likely to give up, because they can see the grand scheme of the match and see it's going downhill fast. Lesser survivors would naively continue to make their bad macro plays in the hopes of somehow winning. "1 gen left! Time heal up, let our teammate go to second stage, hook trade anyway, and then heal up again instead of the gen!" When I'm survivor I'll play what looks like a lost match just in case we win, which we sometimes do, but that requires the other players to keep playing for real as well.
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@MaddieMage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876821#Comment_3876821
”I take advantage of a broken game mechanic and to win, I don’t care who doesn’t like playing miserable matches against it and if you don’t then stop playing the game” is a really interesting take and further proof of why I think BHVR needs to address this even more IMO.
I will give you props for just taking your first victim out of the match quickly (not that you weren’t going to do that already as a tunneler anyway) and letting them go next instead of doing what a lot of killers do by deeming themself the “match enforcer” and slugging them constantly to force them to stay in a match that they’ve clearly decided they’re not going to get to play in anyway and therefore not participate in, and keeping dead weight around for the rest of the team.
Well, I guess we're both in the wrong then. I should have left the first 2 paragraphs out, knowing that someone like you would ignore the more important/relevant final paragraph. You are speaking purely on emotion.
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I tunnel. I do it to win. And if the survivors throw it at the beginning of the match, I especially do it, as a mercy to them by ending a lost match faster. That's one reason why I knock the "tunneling at 5 gens" argument. How does one even get hooked twice before 1 gen is done? If we're playing at that low a caliber, would the killer playing nice and not tunneling have even made a difference?
If the survivors want to give up after I had a really rough killer match, or a series of such matches, I'll take it. But I don't get on killer to play against people who have no intention of trying. We want to beat good players, as a show of skill and competitiveness, not just half-hearted scrubs who don't know the meaning of teamwork.
I don't think that there'll be a correlation between tunneling more and getting less give ups, and I think that him suggesting that is just desperation spitballling, and seeing what works. The devs have not addressed DCing/giving up, especially when they turn off the DC penalty at times, or keep the punishment so lenient. And it's not just on them. The people who get on the game just to give up need to get a life or pick a different game. I don't care if they're frustrated; it's more frustrating to their 3 teammates and their killer when they give up. It will be a net positive if they leave the game, because we'll see less DCs/give ups. The devs need to be comfortable with losing players if it means improving the match quality, and customer satisfaction, of those who actually care about the game. I usually wouldn't take such a stance against rage quitters, but it's an increasingly unavoidable issue the game has at this point.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876720#Comment_3876720
They are really alergic to his og power for some reason
Forever Freddy. That's the reason.
It was the og "holds the game hostage" win condition by attrition, and it should never have existed. I can only imagine what modern killers in 2025 would do with this ability (hint: it's 60 minute matches where the killer automatically wins).
I have yet to see anyone who pines for his "original power" also give anything that resembles a solution to this problem, since the slowdown in the dream world and "progressively harder to wake up" mechanics that caused "forever Freddy" are core features of that build.
Shoot, I don't think I've seen anyone who mentions wanting "original Freddy" even acknowledge that "forever Freddy" was a problem, let alone offer an alternative that would both fix "forever" but keep the general concept.
Just tune the slowdown a bit then. And you're thinking of reworked Freddy, before his nerf to his current version, not original Freddy. What people called "forever Freddy" was nowhere near forever anyway, and it was basically their defeatist attitude and lack of strategy or teamwork that led to most of their losses to it. He has Ruin? Cleanse it. He has Pop? Don't give him free downs over and over. He fakes a teleport? Go back to the gen. He commits to teleport? Run him away from it so others can work on it. It's not that hard for 4 survivors to pressure 2 different gens at the same time, but back then and still today the average survivor team can't even do that. Gen kicks were immediately reversible back then through gen tapping, and now the killer's only got 8 regressions before it's permablocked to him forever. So no, bringing back that version of Freddy wouldn't do a single solitary thing to shake up the meta or anything. He's a noob stomper, and nothing more. That's why people were so upset with the nerf. They removed his strategy as well, by limiting his snare count by so much, by removing his pre-placed anti-loop.
Experience tells me that when people say something's an easy win for killer, it usually isn't. Because it's said about anything and everything. People will harp on about Hag, Doctor, Freddy, Leatherface, Ghost Face, but you never see them, because they're weak. Same thing with "holding the game hostage" from the killer end. The rate of that happening to me has been like 1 in every 50 matches, at most, ever. And if the team is decent, it just doesn't matter that they do it. 1-2 people know to avoid a 3-gen or how to pressure once they're in one, killer could lose the whole game. The reason it takes longer each time to wake up from a Freddy clap is because it counters survivors being able to quickly disable the killer's power infinitely. It's why Singularity is trash, because it's perpetual, readily available EMPs that disable your power the whole match. The cures for Nemesis and Wesker feel the same, and they're not even infinitely spawning. It's just like, "Great. Now I've got to waste more time than a regular M1 chasing just to infect the survivor with my power, so that I can use it later, which they can cure and restart the process anyway."
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Yeah, I'm just waiting for him to come out. I thought to myself, "Didn't they announce those changes a while back? Shouldn't it be out by now?"
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
I always see people say "well I am high MMR" whenever they talk about balancing discussions and I really have to question how it is even important or relevant to anything.
Most people can agree that the MMR system isnt really the best, it has a lot of flaws/issues and rewards players for playing the most boring ways possible, often punishing players for taking risks or trying to go for high skilled plays. High MMR does not really feel like something to boast about, especially when it is basically an invisible number that you can only really guesstimate on anyways.
Furthermore, this concept of "I am high MMR" has lead to this elitism where anyone who is new or less experienced gets their opinions invalidated because they are not playing at a high level, despite the fact that new or less experienced players are a very important part of DBD's player ecosystem and hold just as much importance as the veterans or top % of players.
MMR's softcap to begin with is set really low where most veteran or top % of players are facing average (sometimes even below average) players consistently in their games, the matchmaking is so loose that it is the idea of Skill Based Matchmaking in DBD practically doesnt exist. This is mainly because of the focus on finding games fast instead of trying to have quality matchmaking.
Anyways… yea… MMR is a sham and Im tired of people bringing it up. This isnt aimed at a particular person, of course, this is just talking about a trend Ive seen in the DBD community for a long time and I really dislike it and wanted to talk about it.
MMR clearly matters because it's what puts you against other people, and it's the only thing that measures your skill/progress since grade isn't tied to it. The reason why it matters that we talk about the game at high MMR is because the lower level is mostly irrelevant. Anyone can say the killer is the power role at low MMR... when a monkey could beat the kind of survivors you see there. They don't even know what a gen is. So we don't care about that level. To the extent that everyone skill questions the other person, then you could argue bringing high MMR into an argument is redundant. But saying MMR straight-up doesn't matter is like saying rank in other games doesn't matter, when someone in dirt rank is telling someone in diamond rank, "Your takes are bad. You must be bad." You see that on here constantly and it gets validated because everybody has to guess what each other's MMR is instead of simply seeing it. In an ideal world, we would just know what level people are playing at based off of their takes, but because there's so much propping up of stuff like, "Remove Windows or Opportunity!" or "Wraith and BBQ are so OP!", it just doesn't work that way. So we need MMR to help us figure out where we're all at.
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@Interrupt_Vector said:
Nobody who is actually good at this game cares about MMR. It's not even a question.
What a bold statement, based off nothing.
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It's not illegal to use strategy in an event queue.
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@GannTM said:
I’ve been playing this game for almost 5 years and every argument I hear on SWF’s being OP is assuming that all 4 players are amazing every single match. This is not realistic in the slightest. I’m sure the majority of your matches are against your average player but you only remember the few bad matches.
But why do strong SWFs get to crutch on their role, as in it never gets nerfed or touched or anything, because bad teams also exist? That's bad logic. You're balancing off of bad players, so that good players become completely game breaking, and the same doesn't apply to killers.
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@Interrupt_Vector said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876133#Comment_3876133
killer at 5 do 11 12 and 1 is a basic example that is already strong, especially against stealth killers.
Where it really starts to get crazy is when you coordinate items, perks and offerings in a manner that does not occur in soloQ on any consistent basis.
A lot of people, almost everyone in soloQ seems to forget (or ignore) is the pre-game chat that allows even random groups to coordinate on a level higher than the average soloQ group that does not communicate at all. It's a possibility that I see rarely used outside from memeposting and the occasional "Bring BPS".
The community somehow collectively decided to come up with terms for "slugging", "tunneling", "genrushing", for the sake of communicating patterns and actions but somehow failed to come up with an effective pre-game communication model to coordinate perk setups and strategies. What some of them got down to a tee however is the endgame chat freakout. That goes without thinking.
The possibility is there, think about it.
Everybody just hits ready (or not), going into the match with a preset plan (or not) and everyone is left guessing if you even equipped any perks at all or if you're going for a sabo build.
There is a reason the Killer cannot communicate with the survivors in the pre-game chat, but he can do so in the post-game chat.
If the community could somehow come up with an effective way of communicating the most basic strategies in the pre-game lobby they could at once go into the match with more information and could make adjustments accordingly (if they at all can).
If the group can spend the entire minute effectively then they should already be at a better place than before.
Stealth killers and strong don't belong in the same sentence.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
SWFs have weaknesses. And the weakness are the individual players. 99% of SWFs are not on that level you want to claim they are. You will not lose a game because the Survivors are playing in an SWF. You will lose a game if the Survivors are better than you - and then you would have probably lost against the same Survivors if they were all SoloQ.
You will not have 4 players who play perfectly in every match, even when they are in an SWF. And SWF does not suddenly make bad players good.
No, this is the same thing as Dead Dawg locker flashlight save squads. Just because they were "rare" doesn't mean they weren't a problem. Same with SWF. If they're at a certain level, the killer just can't do anything to win, and not because they're just THAT good, but are good enough to abuse the brokenness and the survivor sidedness of the game. There's no map they won't do well on, no build they can't make do with, no killer who will give them a challenge, bar Nurse/Blight playing near perfect.
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@Shodan79 said:
I mean TRU doesn't have any skills that apply in the real world. If he need to be a "Big Man" in video games then good for him.
So just personal insults?
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@Zexbunny said:
Knockout is going to get nuked into oblivion. And it probably should be. It's the most anti-solo queue perk there is. But certain killers will complain when it's nerfed even though the game is in a pretty good spot for killers right now.
But it's not in a good spot. People gravitated towards slugging because hooks give survivors all their strongest perks, and completely halt the killer's momentum. With 2v8 cages, killers had way less time waste and got right back into chase soon after. That time waste alone, killers cannot afford against good survivors. Then imagine survivors actually doing good chases, like a minute+, which the game allows but it totally isn't balanced for. I've almost been convinced of what you said, sometimes. I think, "You know, I did beat that strong team," or "I have been getting more than a few wins lately." And then the moment I go against good survivors, I feel powerless again. We can keep pretending that the random matchmaking balances the game for itself, and that those "rare" matches against strong teams don't matter, but it feels like we keep sweeping the real issues under the rug instead of addressing them.
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@fixblitzskin said:
true talent is doing nothing but slugging in every video with knockout because hooking isn’t worth it and choy a smaller dbd youtuber also said he isn’t going to hook anymore and just slug. Is 4 man slugging the newest trend in content creation for killers?
That's just strategy. It's not even 4-man slugging. Tru3's variant is slugging 3, hooking 1. And like he said, the strat is usually countered simply by good survivors. They don't let each other just be on the ground for minutes. But I really don't see a trend in that being the new killer content, as you say. I see more pseudo smurfing, where the survivors always look clueless and that's why they lose.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874421#Comment_3874421
“But all I see are the complaints of casuals, both the level of stuff they usually lose to: "OP Wraith! OP Xenomorph! OP Dracula!" and the exaggeration that usually accompanies it. "Every single match the killer is slugging and hard tunneling! We don't even do 1 gen!" So no, I don't think they need even more special accomodations. Noobs will be noobs.”
Buddy you do the same thing saying every killer sucks and that your in extremely high mmr. That’s the same exaggeration your talking aboutBuddy, my experience actually lines up with what I say. I never said I'm top MMR. But I'm high MMR, otherwise the survivors wouldn't run full bail out builds, actually do the gens quick, and try as hard as possible to not let the killer get 1 kill. Not every killer sucks, per se, but they're definitely not OP like everyone says. OP would be like stopping the survivors from getting a single gen done, every time. No, the majority of matches I'm seeing are ending after all the gens are done, or 1 gen left. And what the survivors are displaying is not impressive at all to be getting those kinds of results. The amount of times I see people screwing up at loops over and over again, or just standing around doing nothing, but because 1-2 people knew how to play, the whole team gets out, is too many too often. It shows massive imbalance. Because if the killer just didn't know how to chase at any tiles, or just stood still for minute, there's literally nothing he could do to bring that game back. Even playing his best, and making 1 suboptimal play, he's in an unrecoverable game, unless the survivors massively screw up.
This is what I see nearly every time I get on. And when I get easy matches, I know it's not me. It's the weak survivors. Them appearing in matches is the only thing that gives this game the illusion of killer-sidedness. Because it's not killer sided at all. If I wasn't invested in this game, I'd leave it in an instant. It's what I did with Evil Dead, because that game is a legit group bullying power fantasy, where literally nothing the demon does changes the results of the match.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873996#Comment_3873996
Sounds to be like people aren't running up against "gen rush" toolbox squads all the time. Seems like that would be rampant with all the complaining we usually hear on this forum.
And it should be especially bad, since killers can't choose to bring the "necessary" quad slowdown perks. But no one is having that problem.
Interesting.
Maybe because that isn't happening, and survivors aren't actually playing that sweaty as often as people claim.
Maybe "gen rushing" isn't base kit, no matter what people claim, and requires a full loadout, items, and coordination to even consider trying it.
Maybe killers don't actually need quad slowdown to win.
Maybe survivors do actually need the bare minimum perk answers to these base kit killer "strategies" to even be able to have some fun occasionally while losing the game.
Maybe some of those specifics should be altered in a game mode that doesn't allow people to choose their perks.
I think not. I think survivors have what they need at base, and those who don't realize or take advantage of that run to special events hoping to make them into to coveted "casual mode." But these modes, while "fun" in nature, are not marketed specifically to casuals. It's just a twist, a rule mix-up. And us who take things more seriously need that as well every once in a while. But all I see are the complaints of casuals, both the level of stuff they usually lose to: "OP Wraith! OP Xenomorph! OP Dracula!" and the exaggeration that usually accompanies it. "Every single match the killer is slugging and hard tunneling! We don't even do 1 gen!" So no, I don't think they need even more special accomodations. Noobs will be noobs.
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@TwinsMain2004 said:
It basically means try to twelve hook every game while only using perks add-ons and killers I find acceptable (none are acceptable)
People who say spread pressure either know it's futile to do so vs good survivors and just want easy 5 min gens 4 man outs or are very misinformed about what good play actually it
It's the latter. They get beat by no add-ons/no perks Wraith, Freddy, Pig, etc. So a killer struggling when they're bringing "strong" stuff is alien to them. It's a shame the devs can't just show us our MMR in-game. I think the fact that they don't is intentionally confusing.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
I wait patiently for the day my sweet MFT returns home to its former glory.
But that was broken. Getting free speed just for being injured?
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I don't like playing against any particular perk. I guess perks that are not the best stuff for my opponents to run?
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You have to dodge the dog between running to the next tile. If successful, you get extra time/distance on her. If not, she'll get a hit and that's it. She took extra steps just to get that hit when compared to Wraith, Huntress, Myers, Alien. The dog's grasp should be strong, because you can stun him with a pallet or have a teammate kick him, or even go behind a single obstacle that he can't be angled around. She just seems like a killer like Deathslinger, Pinhead, or Singularity who have to hit survivors with their power over and over to get anything from it. I barely see her, and it's never a hard match against her. If you're struggling against such a killer with thousands of hours of play, you have squandered that play time. I know because I have friends with more hours than you who don't know what they're doing. "We're going against Freddy or Legion, or a killer with no perks or add-ons? Let's just give them a free 4k." is basically the experience. And this is why I say: The most skill-intensive, game knowledge-intensive thing you can do in this game is to play killer and get good with it. It literally changes how you see and play the game, for better or for worse.
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@CrypticGirl said:
Killers already have waaaaaay more agency than Survivors do. All we want is to level the playing field juuuuuust a bit.
Absolutely not. When a match of non-stop bad chases can be recovered for survivors by 1 good chase, but a series of really good chases by the killer doesn't let him come back from 1 bad chase, something is fundamentally wrong with the game.
I'm trying to think of what agency you're referring to, and I'm grasping at straws. They move faster, and can* get the survivors in chase almost no matter what, but that doesn't cement a favorable position for the killer. If the survivors know how to waste enough time at tiles, and take long enough to go down, it doesn't matter if the killer's time sink "pays off," because he's lost the game by that point. Even if a survivor does the worst chase imaginable, like instantly getting downed or grabbed before they even had the chance to run, that's a crumb of momentum, and doesn't bring the killer closer to victory unless the rest of the survivors' chases are like that.
So many times I've played solo and was in a lost match, and then we brought it back, or came close to doing so, because I and 1 other teammate decided to sit on gens for like 1 minute, or gave the killer a decent chase instead of going down instantly. It's like, "What? We could have done this the whole time?" Yes, you can. And that kind of highlights how survivors have agency, not killer. I've never been killer on the cusp of losing and decided, "I'm just gonna do X now" and have that be enough for me to bring it back. I've only experienced that as survivor.
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@TieBreaker said:
This is a self-inflicted injury. Certain streamers (who I won't name) decided to punish survivors due to BHVR's balancing choices, and have inspired killer players with bad attitudes to do the same. Now BHVR has to come in and fix the mess these players have made.
I don't blame killer players for exploiting this game's poorly thought out gameplay loop. I blame the devs for not having enough forsight to predict that having a gameplay loop, where players are forced to do nothing for minutes at a time, was a bad idea. They have built this game up on a dodgy foundation. Every addition to the game has just made it more complicated to fix.
Yeah, I mean it's so obvious. If you make it as hard as possible for killers to chase, hook, and spread hooks, they simply won't. They want to win, and these days that means slugging and hoping to dodge all the SWFs, meaning solo gets punished the most. If killers had incentives to play in other ways, or SWF was nerfed (for once in this game's lifespan), or matchmaking was competent, this wouldn't be the daily discussion.
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@king_ab said:
They want killers to play in a certain way that benefits the survivors but not the other way around. How much are you willing to sacrifice before you end up 30 minutes in survivor queue because you cannot deal with killers doing certain ways that makes you cringe or DC? Player agency is being reduced over the years. Killers already aren't allowed to facecamp, to tunnel, to 3-gen because of 8x anti-gen regression, to breathe so much into your direction, and I'm pretty sure that soon Slugging will be forbidden as well with UB basekit added in a future patch.
I am certain that at some point of this game's lifetime will become so one directional that no killer is willing to play thus I end up not playing survivor anymore because of the queue times.
It's true. If you're struggling as killer and people say, "Just get better at chase. Just get better at gens." that doesn't help, because of course you can always be better at those things, but the improvement for a lot of us isn't going to be night and day. It would be like going from 95% of our full potential to 96% of our full potential, over a year-long period of "improvement."
The reality still is that if you go against a survivor team who knows to abuse the brokenness of the game, you physically can't do anything. Even with tunneling, they just rush gens. Even with 3-genning, they just yo-yo/shift W. Even with slugging, they have comms. And the majority just seem to be tone-deaf to the killer POV. They suggest all these changes to make the killer role weaker, weak beyond belief, and when asked, "Well, what can the killer do then to win?" they say, "Just get better. The game is easy for you already."
The answers they give us are not acceptable, because they don't line up with the reality of the role. "Just do X and you win EZ every time." That might work for Nurse or Blight, but what about the 95% of other killers who need way more help just to have an even playing field? Have you even played those killers, or gone against good teams with them? It's night and day to how you see the game. Like, when have I just been able to hop on Wraith or Freddy, or do some random meme build, and not get crushed for it? Only when I'm going against uncoordinated, inefficient noobs.
The killer role's problem is that the average killer doesn't have enough power or agency to get the survivors before time's up (gens are all done and everyone runs out). The survivor role's problem is that in solo they get bad teammates who have no place being in their lobby, meanwhile the killer is actually trying to win. So like I always say, this doesn't get fixed until matchmaking gets fixed. After that, we can see what's OP at what level (just disregard bottom level, where survivors don't know what their objective is), what undesirable things are happening and why, other factors like how many hooks and gens were done, and use that data to balance the game. Right now, that can't happen, because it's mostly random matchmaking like we're in 2018 again.
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It's not illegal for people to sweat, even in a twist mode. While some killers may pick Chaos Shuffle for a smaller likelihood of DS, Unbreakable, and things like that, they're given random perks as well, which can be equally not good.
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Well, what are we gonna replace it with? Gen defense? Chasing? Tunneling? Camping? Hit and run? Those have all been made useless. You have to give the killer a chance to do something in order for them to win, or they'll just stop playing. And before you talk about supposed skill that the killers need to learn, that is what those strategies^ were, a channel for the skill to come out. Killer can't win with random chases. This is not anime where if you just do well enough, if you will it hard enough into existence, you'll just win in the end. The survivors have been allowed to use whatever build or strategy they want. The killers have been punished for using theirs, since they're now destroyed. The playerbase will not survive another straight nerf to killer. You have to throw them a lifeline.
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@Pulsar said:
If only these stats and more were available IN-GAME.
Might help people understand things more and give older players something to work at.
Yeah, I'll wait for an in-game MMR reader. This stuff is a bit too out of the way for me.
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The people who play a few games a week, and/or just want to chill, ought to be put in the same queue together. It was a mistake not to put MMR in event queue, just like it was a mistake in normal queue to put really good players against noobs constantly. So your real problem is with the lack of MMR, or it not working correctly. If those things were put in place and executed properly, then we could see what's really wrong with the game across the board, instead of now where it's all this whataboutism due to the complete random nature of teammates and opponents.
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@Rulebreaker said:
We see it more that people rely heavily on what they're used too. People who stacked slowdown will find gens speeding cause they don't know how to pressure any other way. Survivors without windows or exhaustion need to actually learn how to loop without them.
That's just wrong. Not everyone who has used gen defence is bad without it. Many who don't use it had used it for years, and found it to be extremely lacking in recent years. They then go on to use other builds, like chase and endgame builds, to see that it's an inherent issue that killer can't pressure no matter how they slice it. Now, they're either hoping to go against survivors who don't have a clue what they're doing, or have turned to slugging. This^ is kind of my story as well.
I did rely on Windows a lot as survivor, so the transition to never getting it wasn't nothing, but I managed. If anything, it's the same issues as usual that cause me to die. Not a lack of skill, game knowledge, or perks that work for my situation, but teammates who give up within the first minute. I can't do what I need to do to win us the match, be that doing gens while others are getting chased, or looping long enough for teammates to do gens, if they don't even begin to try to play. This is a team game, and I see far too often people pointing the finger at the killer, and legit NEVER questioning they or their own team's plays.
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Assuming that's true, they're doing it for a reason. Why hook 3 different survivors and get nothing for it, when you can hook 1 survivor thrice and get a kill for it? Honestly, the game discussion isn't even about hooks anymore, because even that "super efficient" strategy is outdated. No incentive to hook, nobody wants to do it anymore. You're lucky the killer hooked you at all.
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The last survivor, not the last 2? Fine by me. No further slugging changes needed.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872620#Comment_3872620
I’ve been wanting to try Oni but I’m on Ps5… Is he at the near “unplayable” level? Or is he still somewhat viable? I’m a fool for his whole art presentation and sound design.
You won't be able to hit people with his power. Maybe they just don't dodge and run in straight lines. Maybe then you hit them. And it's not just the inaccuracy in the joystick compared to the mouse. When I go to hit someone who's near a window or an obstacle, what does the game hit? The wall, not the survivor I clearly aimed at. This is why the devs shouldn't be so stingy with killer hitboxes, because no other game with melee combat has such demanding aim requirements.
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I want to see it too. I'd like to see someone make an argument against it, just like they can't against the low BP cap.
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@Nocturnum said:
I feel for you OP, the game has gotten so much worse with killers who dismiss the fact that it's a group activity and don't care the least bit about anyone else's experience. It's appalling selfish behavior.
Plus if they're so skilled, they shouldn't need to slug in the first place. Just slows down the game and makes everyone miserable.
Between this and how the devs are treating people after the Junji Ito fiasco, makes me not want to play anymore.No, slugging nowadays is an indicator of game knowledge. They know that hooking is laughable, because all the base stuff and perks survivors get, and how killers basically get nothing if not lose momentum for hooking. It's always weird, to see people making killers out to be skilless when they're literally using strategy and smart plays.
What you're advocating for is the 1 (who's supposed to be the power role, and isn't) to play to lose against the 4. "It's a bad thing if the killer wins" is the narrative.
Again, just think of all killers have to lose by hooking. There could be DS, OTR, DH, Resurgence, pallet saves, blind saves, body blocks, 4% off hook. It's not worth it. So while there may be killers who slug survivors and take joy in it, others are doing it because it's all they can do. That's not them playing above their skill level, either. You're not supposed to be able to win against good survivors, even if you're really good as killer, because the gens are too quick and/or the chases take too long. You're prioritizing people's feelings over all of this practical stuff.
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@Alicia_Tried6041 said:
What? Dracula is pretty weak imo.
I've always believed this. Like, how are you gonna get a good survivor at a loop with Hellfire? They'll just dodge it or go around again every time.
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@Shirtless_Myers said:
This game is garbage, and the developers only care about killers. I honestly don't see much reason to type more or care because the developers don't care about their own game so why should I? I only hop on for events and tomes, the game is not worth playing otherwise.
How do they only care about killers? Have you played as the role and gone against good survivors? You can't even do anything against them. Your problem is with mismatches, thus the MMR system.
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@jayoshi said:
It is nice to see people defending this are only getting like 3-4 upvotes while people saying it's a crap way of playing during a casual event mode are getting 30+ upvotes. Like you guys are the minority and I wish BHVR would do something about it. I'm only doing this event to try and get the charms and banners, then after that I'm done playing it. Sweaty and troll killers just drain the fun from playing this mode.
Ad populum fallacy.