danielmaster87
danielmaster87
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/437992/deathslinger-much-needed-power-buffs
Did you ever play deathslinger? xD
First of all to the coin:
It ONLY gives exposed on snipes, so that's the only thing rewarded and therefore what you wanted, any range would be so op xD
Second:
The shots are really really centered and precise, I shot someone through the killershack window that has planks infront of it a few days ago.
Third:
That range-increase would be WAY too much, it's already hard to escape on open fields, and with objects near him the range doesn't matter anyways because they just break los.
Fourth:
You injure on a chainbreak basekit (if you just press m1 without hitting the survivor or letting the chain break THEN you don't injure, that's the only possible case), there's one addon that increases the time it takes to mend and that's all.
And last:
dragging over palettes - good job (ironic) now he's probably one of the strongest killers in the game.
Dragging over windows - unnecessary, you're already able to reel them in until they touch the window and just hit them.
I don't even say anything to the shotgun.
Just give him his smaller terrorradius back, make his him able to shoot instantly again OR make him 4,6. Reeling speed would be nice too, he's wasting a lot of time with that.
Wow, imagine calling his shots fine. You shoot people directly on their body and it misses, but it's "fine." That's your first issue. Another would be the shooting distance. It clearly needs to be longer, because I constantly have perfect shots, but it misses because I get outranged, and this happens every single match. The only reason I keep going for such shots is because you never know whether it's the bad shot hitbox denying you, because it's so consistently inconsistent, or whether you got legit outranged. And you talking about survivors needing to be able to dodge in an open space, just wow.
Dragging over pallets, I'm not a big pusher of, but that would still be as weak or weaker than Pinhead or Houndmaster hitting their powers at loops, and they're not 110%.
Super agreed on the nerf reverts though. It's like a different person took over typing. I'd go as far as giving him all of the stuff you suggested, not just 1 or another. But mostly I just want the instascope back, and fair hitboxes on the shots. I can't help but play him a little, most times I get on, because his gameplay has a golden equation of fun about it, but God is it frustrating to play him. And then people are so gaslight-happy when you talk about giving him anything, it's madness.
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The most obvious fix to him is the return of his quickscope and smaller terror radius. Hear it from anyone else, they'll say, "OMG, he was so OP back then! Literally unbeatable!" Well, that's not what I saw, from his initial release all the way up until his nerf. What I saw was simply a decent killer who actually had some power in chase, instead of survivors having it all (the standard), and who wasn't seen at all at high level or in tournament, because he was a worse Legion.
It didn't matter that you "Couldn't dodge his shot!" You're not supposed to be able to do that against a killer at all times. You're supposed to be unpredictable so that he wastes too much time waiting for the right time to shoot, or else he'll miss when he does shoot. He's not even guaranteed the shot when he does shoot 1) because the hitbox is absolute trash, like the size of a pea, and 2) because survivors get caught on random stuff and end up breaking out. Even when you reel them in and hit them, the bar is often just about the break the chain. So the counterplay to him used to be extremely fair, basically playing against him like you would Huntress, where you avoid los for as long as possible and then start being unpredictable.
His terror radius also made him a pseudo stealth killer, especially when combined with Monitor, so that survivors couldn't just hold W every time they heard him, like they do Huntress and her lullaby. But despite people not complaining about that before he was nerfed, nowadays they say, "Oh, we can't go back to that. It's OP!" Because God forbid killers strategize and use perks and base abilities together, to not give survivors 20-40 seconds of a free lead on them.
So I don't understand why this killer has been left in this garbage state for so long, or why people push back so much against a killer being decent. Say we did revert the nerfs, or did the OP's suggestions. All of a sudden he'll be unbeatable S tier, better than Nurse and Blight? Because if that's not the outcome, which it won't be, then what's the big deal?
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I just want to know why Wolf walks at a slug's pace when walking backwards. And in general he's super slow. All the added cooldowns and stuff just make the killer more clunky, like it would any killer. Is that the best we can do? Making a killer "more balanced" by making them clunky, as they're already far weaker than Nurse/Blight?
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No amount of BP is gonna make that stress okay. The obvious solution is a debuff to SWF. "You can't punish friends playing for fun!" All kinds of games let players play with friends and play for fun, but that doesn't mean they allow broken stuff for free. SWF breaks the game, because it negates the necessity of info, it negates the usual required game awareness and risk taking, it almost always means vastly faster gens and heals, and what does the killer get in exchange? Nothing. "Face this clearly superior team to what you're usually 'equipped' for (I use that word lightly), and if you lose then it's still a skill issue!"
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@DestroyerBG said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879661#Comment_3879661
yeah if I dont have lightborn I am just scared to pick up. They will blind you even if you don't seem them at all. They canb lind from the far far corner of your eye which is really weird
Yeah, flashlights need to be fixed. Tired of being blinded from off screen. Another reason not to hook.
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You literally lose nothing by doing this. Remove the perk tiers, and the grind goes way down, for new players, long-time players, and everyone in-between. I don't understand why this hasn't been implemented. And imagine how much less work the you'd have to do by just making a perk, as opposed to making 3 versions of the same perk.
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So make the infinitely replaceable, infinitely valuable, team-wide perk stronger. This is definitely sane logic.
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3880001#Comment_3880001
Your perception of gen completion speeds is the most relevant part of the discusison. Your opinion is founded on a misinterpretation of the speed at which gens are typically completed, so I have to meet you and discuss with you on that point.
Hens' world record escape attempt is irrelevant to this discussion, because you are not going against world record attempt SWFs ever. Balancing around the 1 in a million groups trying to escape in sub 2:30 is a bad direction to take the game.
Nor should the game be balanced around the top of the top killers. But it is. And that's why every single killer who plays loses not to good chases but to gen rushing.
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/437911/genrush
Two questions.
- Why do you presume that a group of survivors punishing your chase inefficiency with gen efficiency is a SWF? They just as easily could be good solo players, given you're only getting 2 chases in a game and therefore aren't applying any sort of organization-requiring pressure for them to manage.
- Why do you not presume that gens are flying because you aren't properly applying pressure, instead choosing to blame your opponent for doing what it takes to win their matches?
Of my three mains (Singularity, Oni and Trapper) none of them need more than two slowdowns to win the vast majority of my games. Hell- I could probably get away with nil slowdown on Hux and still win more than half, ditto for single slowdown Oni. None of those three are Nurse or Blight.
It's always the killer's fault, isn't it?
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Probably just focusing on blinding, BMing, stunning, or making saves against the killer more than doing anything else. That does not mean that they don't do gens. They do this specifically because the gens are so easy and quick to complete, and they have the time and ability to "spice things up" aka engage in group bullying. Some argue, "They're just trying to make the killer mad so he makes a mistake." Really? Even after the match is complete when they're still talking trash, they're still mindgaming the killer?
If the survivors really just wanted to win, they'd do the gens quick and leave, because it really is that simple for them at a certain point. I don't think anybody is calling decent teams bully squads. But the level of frustration you face is about the same, because the experience is the same: you can't do anything. Whatever play you make, the survivors will capitalize and be that much closer to winning. It never feels like you're not losing, until the very end when you actually aren't. 1 bad chase is unrecoverable even by doing lots of good chases. The flip side of that means survivors screwing up chases over and over can be rectified by 1 decent chase, and suddenly they're winning again.
Killers perhaps overestimate how common bully squads are because they feel isolated against that threat. I almost never see toxic survivors getting reprimanded by their teammates. I'll do it. I'll say, "You didn't have to be toxic." and they'll come back with, "Ehuhhehh! My game, my way of playing! Don't tell me wat to do!" with like 1 functioning brain cell, which they use to be toxic on the 1 game they're good at. I'd push back against toxic killers too, but they're rare for me, have messages blocked, or I decide, "You know what? Not worth my breath. Let him have. Allow him his blissful ignorance until he faces a team strong enough to just crush him." If only there were a way to put all the toxic survivors and toxic killers in their own queue.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879924#Comment_3879924
This is incredibly short-sighted.
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@jasonq500 I stopped playing DBD around the release of Nicolas Cage - Alien, and started playing again this month. I've run into 3 Skull Merchants in the past 2 weeks and I have to say…I have absolutely no idea how she is different than she was on release.
I am a veteran player who nows comes into the game with a casual lens. If I cannot identify the changes, I do not trust that the average player will feel confident SM has 'watered down' or 'redesigned' to provide a more enjoyable experience for all.
I can describe how every single killer in the game works to any player looking to learn the game.
For the life of me, I could not tell you how Skull Merchant works, and I see that as a massive design flaw.
There is simply not enough context clues in the game to tell me why I should hack drones, what the drones do to help the Skull Merchant, and what benefits and/or risk rewards there are for choosing to hack/not hack at any given time. I imagine add-ons go a long way to adding to that confusion.
Last night I played against a SM on Lery's who ran Surge & Sloppy—maybe even Pop—with an add-on I think made you hear her terror radius whenever you hacked a drone. We didn't get a single gen done. It felt like OG 3-gen lockdown Skull Merchant to me.Just read the power description or search up gameplay, bro. That is available to literally everyone. There's tons of info that isn't immediately obvious to a brand new player either, like Alien's turrets, Singularity's cameras, Chucky's stealth, Myers' stalking. Are they unexplainably unfair as well? So I think that's a really bad and selective argument to make.
"It felt like OG 3-gen Skull Merchant." Except it couldn't be. The gen kick limit is there. 3-gens are over. How can you even compare her 3-gen potential now to what it was then?
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@jesterkind said:
The thing about Skull Merchant hate is that it's always been at least partially irrational and arbitrary, even when the actually problematic version of her power existed. I don't say that to shame or lambast anyone, it's just a neutral observation.
That's why the most recent round of changes was a mistake, or at least one reason. It doesn't help that the changes weren't aimed at any of the killer's actual problems and just sorta nuked her basic gameplan to the ground, but even if the changes had all been sensible… people don't DC against Skull Merchant because of what the state of her power is. Most people barely even understand what that power even does.
It's still a good idea to change SM, I've supported that for a while, but you necessarily have to de-link the changes from the fact that people DC against her. You can't expect that even a full rework that solves all her issues would stop people from DCing against her because… well, they did that once, and from a design standpoint it was a pretty serious success. Yet, still people DCed, because it doesn't actually matter what Skull Merchant does.
I don't envy BHVR because I truly don't know how you'd fix that problem. If I were in their shoes, all I'd do is fix the killer's problems and leave it to hope things die down eventually.
If I were BHVR, I would just let those people DC, and punish them with the penalty, until they finally just leave the game. No game needs players like that, where no matter what, they're just gonna be entitled and DC against something they don't like. The devs are literally eating out of their hands with how often they nerf stuff in response to very casual complaints about gen defence, stealth killers, killers being "too fast", killers being able to find them, etc. And they don't appreciate it at all. It still isn't enough for them.
I never hated Skull Merchant. I hated that every time I went into a match against her, literally nobody would play well because they instantly gave in to the self fulfilling prophecy of, "Oh no! It's Skull Merchant! We're not gonna win anyway, so just DC, or don't care to play that well!" thus giving her repeated easy wins, thus creating the illusion that she's unbeatable. They've done this with everyone, rather than even attempting to learn the counterplay: Wraith, Hillbilly, Clown, Freddy, Pig, Spirit, Deathslinger, Pyramid Head, Pinhead, Twins, Trickster, Chucky... All of them nerfed due to casual complaints. It's a shame people can't simply consider killers strong/viable without also considering them overpowered and in need of nerfing.
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@Tora7454 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879675#Comment_3879675
Dude honestly nobody sees twins or hag anymore, and either don't know how to play against them or don't like playing against them because most of them slug, tunnel, camp, etc so they just go next.
But in general, I mostly play survivor and a good bit of huntress. The main groups I struggle with on killer are swfs, they're more coordinated and know when to play defense for a team mate who's about to get sacrificed. But if it's a group of solo players... When I play solo, barely anyone is on gens, most of the game people are hiding or trying to sandbag someone else to get the killer off of them,, following the killer so they can try for a cheeky blind, or go next/DC immediately after they get hooked.
Point being, if you actually did have a 35 4k streak, it's probably a mix of the killers you play and survivors not wanting to deal, and getting uncoordinated teams.
Nobody sees those killers anymore because they're garbage. Twins is garbage because they were made weaker after their scrapped rework than before, when all they could do was slug, and even that didn't work as long as (drum roll) 2 survivors ran together. What counterplay. And Hag has always been garbage. All it takes is 1 person to know the non-camera turn exploit, to be running away already by the time the Hag is even physically able to instantly to. 1 person knows to disrupt her traps? She loses the whole game. And now it's safer and more accessible than ever to do that, because they added the wipe away effect, even though simply tripping them on purpose after she picks someone up is more efficient. But both of their counterplays are pretty easy to understand, to where they'll struggle to get 4 hooks before all gens are done, especially Hag.
You're lucky on your solos. Mine don't do gens as efficiently as SWF (when it's SWF you're basically settling for a draw no matter what), but they do gens efficiently enough to win still. They could have 1-2 good loopers, or no good loopers as long as the tiles are strong (which they almost always are), and just win anyway. I'm constantly questioning, "What am I losing to right now? This?!" You make like 1 suboptimal play or 1 wrong guess and it's over. What the devs' plan has been, to buff the uncarryable solos to being carryable, it hasn't worked how they wanted. But it has made survivors who already know what they're doing literal untouchable gods, and has made even the half-decent survivors really hard to beat, because they have to do so little to win: sit on gens and run from 1 unmindgameable loop to the next.
I rarely believe people's win streaks, because it's the complete opposite of what I see when I play. I'll struggle to get a 2 streak of 4ks, let alone 30+, because either the survivors are too strong, or hatch happens. That's really what win streaks are on killer: you just keep getting lucky until you face 1 decent team, and then lose. There's no way they're doing these streaks, or MMR is just really screwed for them, if they're doing all these no perk/no add-on matches with non-S tier killers. I think a lot of them lie, because most of them aren't arguing in good faith to begin with, so why wouldn't they abuse the lack of info we have on them to push a narrative that favors them (that the devs will even listen to)?
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@DancewithmeKate said:
Nope, it's no longer impresive. Old DbD favored survivors too much and getting 4 kills was indeed super skilled. But today? Nah, it's pretty much most of DbD matches.
But not because of what the killer's got. It's because of matchmaking. When MMR first dropped and worked properly, all of sudden the killers who were always winning with ranked (random) matchmaking started losing over and over. The devs then implemented 2 solutions: 1) That killers would be buffed because it was clear they needed it, but also 2) The MMR system would be "fixed" so that killers who got to high MMR didn't have those matches constantly. That skewed results enough, through weaker survivors getting put against the killers once again, to where the devs thought killer was OP, and just started nerfing killer left and right for like 2 years straight, and intermittently since then. But they never returned the matchmaking to its former glory. So you have worse survivor teammates than ever, and killers are weaker than ever, but because the majority of survivors lose given those conditions (because a majority of them are bad or have bad teammates), killers still kill them a lot, and get nerfs. And when they're reworked, the devs play super duper safe with it, like they're doing with Freddy now.
I don't see how modern survivor is so much weaker than old survivor. They just don't have infinites, instaheals, and Dead Hard for distance. Wow, so weak. Now they actually have to loop and play efficient? No wonder killers keep getting 4ks, when the survivors can't even meet the bare minimum.
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You know, I really don't think it does. It pretty much means you had it easy street as killer, as in the survivors were bad. And at low levels, that's fine. I just hate that at mid-high level you can only beat survivors who are below your caliber, because when they're just as good as you, no dice. So really the measure of whether you played well in a killer match or not is a full analysis, by you or someone else. Long gone are the days where the results of a match indicate your skill. Hooks, gens, smart plays in chase, smart macro plays, strategy, game awareness: none of these things are indicated by the kills/escapes on the results screen. So when someone tries to trash talk, "You couldn't EVEN get a 4k" (as free escape hatch exists, btw), you know it's just BS. Even trash talk for draws, although to me, survivors drawing or losing on a really strong map like Eyrie or Badham is pretty embarrassing.
We will still go for 4ks, obviously, because it's the best result (not rocket science, people), but that doesn't mean that kills are everything. They never were. Had the game been pushed more towards killer rewards for hooking, giving them a reason to hook, instead of giving survivors all this Terminator off-the-hook stuff, we wouldn't be fear mongering about a slugging meta right now. Hooks aren't perfect, but they're a better indicator of skill than kills.
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I don't feel that he's worse on console, other than what mentioned about the buttons being the same for teleport and for switching abilities, but I haven't had any problems with that. And I haven't felt delay on teleports.
It's unclear whether the pallet placement spots that are closer take priority when placing them, or if it's dependent on the direction you're looking. Some of those spots are really close to each other, and so it's hard to place/explode the one that you want. Btw, it's BS that the pallet count is so limited. That was a nerf from the previous Freddy nerf which made absolutely zero sense, because his pallets were by far weaker than his snares, and shouldn't have been punished for how well he was doing overall. His pallets never had anything to do with why he was "OP." But yes, his pallets shouldn't be droppable by awake survivors, and they certainly shouldn't stun you. Great job, devs, by turning a game breaking bug into a regular feature. You surprise me once again.
If people think he's worse than he was, they're just wrong. But that doesn't mean he's fine. He's super duper weak, and struggles to get downs so bad that tunneling and slugging often don't even help him that much. The survivors are awake far too often. Them getting woke up by getting downed was a horrible change, because now any slug that gets picked up has to be hit by 2 dream snares or whatever to get put back to sleep, and only then can you use your power for anti-loop. That's absolutely terrible. I think they could do away with clock sleep immunity altogether. Make them take longer to fall asleep, or whatever. But that sleep immunity is so dumb. And he feels really add-on dependent. I don't know why you'd make add-ons that affect his snare speed and slowdown duration change, because he needs those base anyway.
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He simply isn't that powerful. The fact you're comparing him to Skull Merchant, and making her seem like she was powerful, shows you don't know what a strong killer is. Both of these killers are M1 trash, literally the most loopable killers in the game, even for beginners. Why not complain about Clown or Doctor then? Don't they do essentially what you're complaining about, simply slow down the survivors or otherwise cut chases shorter? In what way does a brand new killer instantly get easy 4ks with Freddy? Only when the survivors he's going against are brand new as well, which of course that's gonna be the result. This feels like another case of balancing off of top level killers, but bottom level survivors. If a killer is somewhat consistent AT ALL in chasing well or getting kills, well then they obviously need a nerf, right?
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Wow, every 7 seconds he gets to not be a trash M1 killer. So powerful.
And you literally said it: the reason he's strong is because bad survivors don't know how to play against him.
What is this?
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I didn't like the change to Calm Spirit or Wake Up. You almost never see these perks be played. For Wake Up, that's always been the case. But Calm Spirit was quite useful at one time.
It's my belief that the devs' refusal to un-nerf Calm Spirit during the so-called "Ultimate Weapon meta" is a big part of what led to that perk's nerf as well, which is a shame. Survivors explained, "We have to run a perk which slows our chest and totem speeds just to counter a killer perk." The correct choice would've been to get rid of that downside on Calm Spirit, and let Ultimate Weapon settle a little longer before abruptly nerfing the only viable non-aura killer info perk. And really, I never ran the perk because I thought info was overrated. I especially didn't see how the perk's power even came close to that of Pain Res, STBFL, or even Brutal Strength. Anyway, Calm Spirit could give no screams, and no sound of chests/totems (this coming from a guy who hates dealing with zero-sound), and it wouldn't be overpowered in the slightest. The devs' belief that it would be OP in that state shows a lack of understanding of the game.
Wake Up I think shouldn't have been nerfed. But I could be wrong. The devs have very rarely made healthy preemptive buffs/nerfs (nerfing/buffing something before it gets complained about, rather than waiting until the backlash). The only example I can think of is the Huntress buff, because the devs could see what most players couldn't, that Huntress had fallen off, and so they just gave her a buff before killers rightfully started complaining "She's so weak, and needs buffs."
The devs saw with Wake Up the potential for survivors to abuse a "roach out" playstyle by combining it with sole survivor, Left Behind and so on, to selfishly wait for their teammates to die and then get a free escape (sort of a problem hatch's existence creates, more than anything, but I digress). So you could argue that they did a good preemptive nerf. But I feel like they should have at least waited for the perk's usage to rise to justify such a decision. It was used in 1% or so of all matches which, considering how many survivor perks there are, isn't nothing. It also saw a 30% or so escape rate, and if we compare that to the devs intended 40% average escape rate, you can draw conclusions about that, 1 of which is that the perk comes dangerously close to giving a survivor a free escape, no matter what, in any average match it's used in.
I disagree with you on thinking that these changes prompt a total reevaluation of survivor. I think at best, you can just consider these bad changes done with the best intentions. Really, I don't see most survivor perks having any significant downside. But the slowdown on Calm Spirit and the extra regression on Technician have got to go.
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No, because the devs already screwed the last one up. Instead of sending survivors straight to cages and getting right back into chase/patrol, they wanted to bring pallet/flashlight bailouts to that mode too. I think we're gonna see even more free advantages to survivors on the next round.
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@KaTo1337 said:
He is really good, I have to say sorry for my hard words.
The only thing which really is something to improve for me is the Alarm Clock-Cooldown. They are too often in play.Really good? Come on. He loses the whole match to 1 DS or DH like any other. He needs literal perfect chases to keep up.
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He's a bit better. Still stupidly weak.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878622#Comment_3878622
Yeah, I agree people do need to stick a gen because sometimes the killer is too fixated on seeing another survivor and more than likely won't interrupt you.
If he/she does interrupt you, just run away from your gen, and hopefully a random takes over. But again, I don't really experience that in my solo-queue games. People normally stick gens, even get off in case of Pain Res.
But ultimately, I run Deja Vu a lot of the time (I hate the gen placements). So, I hardly get into three gen scenarios and it helps the game flow a lot better.
If Windows wasn't my auto-include perk, it would be Deja Vu. The perk was good even before the gen speed buff.
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@Ilikechips said:
If it makes you feel any better just remember that someone went to a nearly 2000 win streak as killer recently.
With enough luck, anyone can do that. Just dodge getting that 1 decent survivor team over and over.
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Who cares? Speed differential, schmeed differential. You seriously can't be arguing that a killer slowing survivors down, or being fast/slow themselves, is bad design. That would implicate almost every killer in the game. I'm for standardizing all killers to 115%, so that it's 1 less complication when it comes to balancing. And I'd also like to see a game state where killers don't have to rely on "fast fast fast" perks or killers to compete, which they do now. But what you're suggesting is so broad sweeping that you'd almost have to make a new game for it.
If killers are never able to catch good survivors at loops without them screwing up, which is pretty much the case now, the killer role becomes unviable outside of a select few (Nurse, Blight, Spirit). Notice that all of those killers are strong because they can play the catch-up game with survivors, getting to them before they can get to somewhere safe/the next safe place. At the end of the day, killers who go a different direction than them are more interesting, because there's more room for counterplay, for both sides preferably, not just survivors.
You may think them dull, but I think killers being strong enough to get you, but you being knowledgeable enough to waste as much time as possible, is what makes this game great, regardless of if slowdown is involved in the gameplay loop. Assuming there is something inherently wrong with 1 killer's gameplay loop, don't y'all want to go against multiple different strong killers, instead of just 1? Why do we always have to shout down the lastest decent killer? It's more rewarding to have to keep your counterplay practiced and updated across multiple killers, not just a handful.
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They could even have sound setting for it once every killer's been given their unique chase theme: classic/generic chase music or individual chase music.
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@jamally093 said:
I don't know how I would title it but SoloQ has taught me one thing there is always a killer that your other teammates just don't know how to counter.
For me it's two
Hag: Any time I face her I'll see my teammates just running near the hook when they should know you have to crouch. You don't need to remove it just crouch to rescue it's safer
Freddy: So far his re-work brought something...everyone drops dream pallets when he isn't nearby now here's the kicker it's token based so leave them if you wants to reuse a pallet then he'll have to use a token plus I have a feeling they work like actual pallets making loud noise notifications appear meaning your gonna let him know where you are. Either I'm smooth brained or something else.
Pretty much who you mentioned, as well as most others. Freddy is literally a glorified M1, so it explains itself why they shouldn't be helpless vs him. Hag is a tad more complex, but literally just wipe away/crouch past the traps to unhook safely, don't loop to areas the Hag has clearly spawned in/trapped, and if she picks up then someone can go buck wild and destroy her whole web of traps in 5 seconds.
People play really bad against Skull Merchant for some reason, because they don't disable drones, they somehow get claw trapped, they almost purposefully 3-gen themselves, and again she's a glorified M1 with basically no chase power. Legion and Plague, I've mentioned in another comment. People constantly do the 1 thing that gives both killers max value from their powers, which is to heal against them. Wraith, I literally don't understand why it's so difficult for people to do well against him. His loud breathing betrays his stealth, so that's out the window, as well as his speed because he slows way down to uncloak, and no real anti-loop. Another glorified M1. Chucky and Vecna are pitifully clunky, form over function, so I don't know how they get any kills either.
It seems like any killer that has a sliver of a useable kit is too much for solo... because the survivors suck. The solution is to put those bad survivors together, and the ones who actually try together, against killers of like skill and experience, and then we can see what's really strong and what's simply a beginner's trap. That's basically how MMR is supposed to function, but the devs think they know better, and did it completely different.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
Plague turns #TeamCleanse against #TeamDontCleanse and then Plague sits back with popcorn watching teams turn against each other
THis guy cleansed, resulting in my down? That's a slight that must be punished by leaving you to die
Because you should never cleanse vs her. It makes no sense to do so, except at the very end when you've already won. It's a like healing over and over again vs Legion, which everybody does for some reason.
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@DBD78 said:
Feels like a classic A-tier killer we solo survivors fear him and SWFs don't care. But I'm fine with him as solo survivor I like going against strong killers like Wesker. You die a lot but he's always pretty fun to face and I have respect for the killer..I like that feeling. And the times you do escape you always feel better than escaping against weak killers like Trapper or Legion. I like the mix in strength in the killer roster. No need for all killers to be at the same level/tier.
Well that's what most people want. They want all killers to be on a "manageable" level of strength, where they don't have any slowdown, or don't have any ability to end chases quicker outside of M1 trash, and can be beat by any solo team. Solo teams, btw, which constantly feature survivors who will never touch a gen so long as someone is injured or on hook. When that's what you're dealing with, literally every killer is "overpowered," but these people don't see the flaw in their side. They just see, "The killer beat me, therefore OP."
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He's really not an issue. It's okay for killers or add-ons to have multiple things going for them. This was my biggest complaint about the push to nerf Adrenaline Vial on Blight. "He has ALL those advantages!" Yes, but in exchange for severely limited turn rate, which PC players ignored because the devs refuse to fix mouse flicking during killer powers.
Almost every survivor perk that comes out these days has multiple effects, and they power creep killer perks. Lethal Pursuer by itself gives you 1 aura read at the start of match, and with other aura perks gives you extra seconds on their effects. Eyes Of Belmont gives an aura read every time a gen is done (5), and with other aura perks gives them extra seconds.
Wesker is yet another killer that's super overrated. His charge time on his power is almost always enough for the survivors to react and get somewhere safe, even if it's just behind a random obstacle, because for some reason killers slow way the heck down every time they try to use their power. He really wouldn't be much without everything he has going for him now. Dash attacks without infection? Who cares? The survivors can potentially be downed fast in chase, or be caught up to fast, but then he loses his slowdown and can just be gen rushed. Or infection without the health states taken. We've seen how well that works with Nemesis (sarcasm), and how often people ask for him to infect + damage with 1 whip attack. And he's got lots going for him as well, the zombies, his ranged attack, and his pallet break with that attack.
I hate to default to this every other time, but you're simply not seeing these killers y'all are complaining in tournaments constantly, or at high MMR. They're not good enough to be played but once in a blue moon at that level. I'm really just waiting for y'all to start complaining about Nurse and Blight again, because I don't know how you can keep complaining til nerf about subpar killer options like Pig, Freddy, Knight, Chucky, and Wesker... when those 2 still exist.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I think he is mostly fine. The only thing I wish they would remove is his Killer Instinct. He really does not need it and it is just slapped on him because for some reason the Devs give every Killer some form of Killer Instinct. But especially Wesker does not need it.
Because when you use a cure which is given to you for free, sometimes infinitely, the killer gets info at least. It has been this way since Plague.
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So that a 100-hour player can be put with a 10,000-hour player, because they're both around the same rank... which is what we have now. Genius.
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How can people even say this stuff? Literally every time I hop on killer, including tonight, super sweaty matches that result in settling for the draw, 1ks, and even 0ks. What was my misplay? What was common between all those matches? Simply facing survivors who knew what they were doing.
Doesn't matter if you're tunneling, slugging, detaching from bad chases, going for the weak link, etc. none of it matters, because the game is advantage over skill, and survivors have all the advantage. It feels like any chase where you have to break a pallet, or one that doesn't result in a down, is a complete waste of time and momentum. And having to get to Bloodlust every single chase, if you do choose to try and ignore the pallets, is equally bad and sometimes isn't even enough. Sometimes Bloodlust 3 isn't even enough, because of how stupid the pallet/loop design is. There's constant stupid loop design in these maps, with buildings that have check spots which allow for a free 20-40 second lead before you even get close to the survivor, meaning you either don't chase there at all (because killer having to RETREAT from tiles is indicative of good design, right?) or you hard commit to the chase even if it's a bad one to take, every time. Some of those same building loops are so badly designed, like on main in Dead Dawg, that you lose Bloodlust going around it, because the survivor is out of sight for too long.
Don't even get me started on the downing potential on these killers, because it's like nothing. No good survivor is ever gonna let you Hillbilly chainsaw or Wesker infect unless it's literally point-blank range, and even then they've got crouch techs and fov techs to rob you. Trapper needs 1-2 pink add-ons just to play, as do several others. The hitboxes, and easily executable dodge counterplay, on all the ranged killers bar Clown (because it's literally a massive gas cloud) are absolutely pathetic weaknesses, especially with Deathslinger. How specific does one's shot need to be? The mobility killers really show you how fast survivors move around loops, and move fast in general. You can go to body block people with Wraith, and they still beat you to the infinite vault spot beforehand. It's almost impossible on Legion to get more than 2 hits with Frenzy without the Never Sleep Pills combo. Blight, I feel was purposefully made worse on console, because his turn rate without both add-ons is non-existent, and he always seems to slam on oversized nonsense obstacles. And Vecna's a clunky add-on dependent mess. Just to name a few.
How y'all lose so often to so many of these weak killers, I'll never understand. Now I see why the complaints make a little more sense. Why complain about Nurse/Blight when you get 4k'd by a no add-ons Wraith, Clown, Pig, or Chucky every single time? It's not on the devs to entertain this. They need to be contending with real balance, not what happens at bottom level. I'm surprised there's as many people on here who have the sense to go to the forums to complain about this stuff. Imagine the tens of thousands who don't, because they don't engage with the community much, period, and who still conclude with their 50-100 hours of playing that "Every killer I face is so OP!" They don't even understand what's hanging in the balance, what's being discussed with this game. Again, even those who are into balance discussions often have the weirdest takes. "I'm casual, and care about fun with friends more than winning, but you'd better nerf those killers so that they're easier to beat!" You know you're not really supposed to be in serious balance talks as a casual, right? No other game's community does that. That's like me, who isn't into football at all, telling people how the game SHOULD work.
But because the devs listen to casuals for balance (an oxymoron of the highest order), what you've said here will be taken as gospel. So you can either wait for them to nerf whatever it is you're mad at, because it will happen, or take my advice: change games. If you lack the patience and commitment to get good at the game, or at least see the game's problems for what they are (bad matchmaking rather than bad balance), then invest into a different game that respects your time a bit better. This one doesn't. But if you're stubborn and still want to proceed with this game, take my other advice: get good with killer. There is no single thing you can do in this game that is more experience enriching, more skill-developing than playing killer and getting good with it. You have to juggle and understand so much, but once you see both roles, both sides of the coin, you understand, "Oh, the killer is limited to doing this much, so I can take advantage of that as survivor." And once you understand the counterplay as survivor, you can re-counter by developing killer counterplay to that. At a certain point, it becomes less and less about the results, and more about understanding how good you did personally.
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Well, who knows what the future holds?
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@justadreampallet said:
chaos shuffle was fun, 2v8 was a neat idea. Lights out was cool. But really, do we need to play the same 3 game modes every few months. I wouldn’t mind if they where annual or semi annual but it is getting boring having them keep re-introducing the same modes will make them boring.
Lights Out can just stay away. It is so bad. Those other modes are nicer. But I really just want them to fix the core game. If we get those other two modes over and over every once in a while, so be it. I just see more complications from adding more modes at this juncture. Let them fix the core and the two decent modes they've got.
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Just let them get the setting right. Even I want the mori to look good when I get killed by it.
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Pallet Lodge is back. Doesn't matter how many arbitrary time waste pallets you break, because the survivors always have more. So much for maps having "no pallets."
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@TheArbiter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877526#Comment_3877526
What i can tell from my few matches is, if they don't use the clocks he is incredibly oppressive and getting 4ks is easy. If they coordinate and use all the clocks on the maps he is literally just an M1 killer again. Basically the problem is he is gonna be a noob stomper but then fall apart against good survivors
If he's just a noob stomper then how's he oppressive? That don't make no sense.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877523#Comment_3877523
Yeah everyone's always awake so my power feels like it's never doing anything. Then if I down them they wake up anyway so I have to move onto the next person. Feels like how old singularity was for me but at least old singularity had some tracking and catch up.
Singularity works like that now, and is easily the most frustrating killer to play. You spend all this time setting up and using your power on them, and then they just brush it off and you have to redo it. How is one supposed to get downs, defend gens, or have any kind of pressure through all that?
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Every killer can tunnel, and it's inadequate once you get to a certain level.
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@bazarama said:
Slugging is the new meta because it nullifies so many survivor perks (especially second chance perks) body blocks, pallets saves, flashlight and flashbang saves and sabo on hooks.
It's no longer in the killers interest to hook but survivors brought this on themselves by crying and moaning about gen regression perks.
And now they're gonna complain about slugging and get it nerfed, instead of looking at what led to that meta. It's always the same.
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I've been hit by it once, if that counts for anything.
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@ratcoffee said:
I've been saying for years that this perk is way too strong, and its pick and escape rates go to show
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/85DV81ZPIOGZ/image.png
Truly a deserved change
I know you're being sarcastic but these are actually really good stats for a perk. 1% of all players use it, 33% of the time they escape. And I'm guessing it's the weaker "roach out" type players who are doing this. Imagine if good players started playing like that.
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@Green_Sliche said:
They remade Freddy into glorious M1 pub stomper with 2 gimmick powers. Everything else has only a value if you intend to slug and pressure. If you try to play him in more standard way, you'll be losing more than winning.
Yeah, I just don't see him becoming a "slugging monster" especially when everyone's forgotten that Twins exists. He's M1. It's a struggle for him to get a down vs 1 good player, so even if he's "good at slugging", he can't get the downs to even get it started.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
I mained Myers for a long time but swapped to PH for a while. The past couple months I went back to Myers and this has been my experience....
Same 4man swf team 4 times in a row.
Matchmaking cycling through the same 12 to 15 survivors for my opponents throughout a 4 hour time period.
When I do get more variety of survivors it's 80% azarovs key offering. If I bring any other map offerings or sac ward they DC in loading screen to avoid the match and the penalty.
If I bring no offering and they get the map they want as soon as hear Myers tier up once they often give up. I'm not camping, tunneling, slugging, and still people say Myers is boring and takes no skill to tombstone.... Yet they are survivors that need to do gens to escape. Is it skillful to sit on a gen? It comes across like they want to go into a match to loop the killer on a very survivor sided map instead of actually doing gens, so when they find out Myers is stalking and not taking the bait to chase them they don't like it.
I thought 4man swf was supposed to be rare, but literally 90% of my matches are swf to some degree, either 4 man, 3 man or 2 sets of 2 man swf. And I know they are swf because they openly admit it and I repeatedly go against these teams time and time again. So much they even know it's me by the offerings I bring or the fact I'm a myers, and even know my ping off by heart lol it's crazy. It's rare I go against soloq.
Surly the matchmaking pool can't be this small all night.
They pick Azarov's offerings because those are all really stupid survivor sided maps. Azarov's Resting Place is just a free win for them once they split the map. And I believe you on the frequency of the SWFs. It's not every match every night for me, but I can tell when it's a SWF, and I get them quite often. Just the plays they're able to coordinate and the gen speed is so unfair, no matter what killer you're playing, what build you bring, what strats you use, they just can't be stopped or even slowed down. I imagine you get pretty bogus matches with your choice of killers, because they're about as good as mine (Deathslinger, Nemesis, Unknown, Xenomorph, etc) and none of those are simply good enough. The devs need to give killers a break and stop nerfing crap like D tier Freddy and Pig.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877091#Comment_3877091
I think that's the point. Playing against a constantly 99ing TP is super tedious. You can still fake it situationally, but you can't constantly 99 it between the slowdown and cooldown.
I mean, this is where we are. We're saying to nerf a D tier killer, who's far outclassed by Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Pyramid Head, Hillbilly, Twins, etc even if all proposed (now cancelled) buffs had gone through, all because we're afraid 1 little macro gimmick.
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@RaSavage42 said:
Why nerf the reason why players play the game
I get that friends like to play games together. But the game isn't balanced for it. I don't want to see SWF get removed or anything, and would just settle with a small debuff to gen speed. If y'all never compromise with reasonable solutions, we'll just keep getting unreasonable solutions. SWF is many killers' reason to not play the game, because when the survivors know what they're doing, it's just a group bullying simulator.
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@fussy said:
Yeah, lol, good job on nerfing B tier killer.
C tier at best. Or are you one of those people who thought he was S before his big nerf to his current state?
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@typervader said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876923#Comment_3876923
as it should be. They were way too spmmable with littrely 0 downside for missing.
But this is what y'all don't get: this is one of the weakest killers in the game right now. Release him strong, see how he performs, AND THEN nerf if necessary. Again, arguably weakest killer in the game, and you're happy with preemptive negatives and punishes to him using his power. In a lot of cases, he'll be weaker than he is now. Clown world.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876304#Comment_3876304
killers get balanced around the best players using them but survivors get balanced around emotional entitlement such as "Killer is unfun vs" , "The killer is boring ", "The killer is too strong for bad players". SWF isn't OP on average. it is that killer are too weak on average because they're constantly balanced around entitlement and worse players. The killer perk also have that problem.
Yeah. Even though I think back to years past and think "survivors were so OP then!", I kind of felt like I could do more against SWF then than I could now. Obviously I didn't have the experience back then to capitalize on it, and now that I do, killer has been nerfed to crap. But it's true. The amount of times people say, "These killers players, that I can count on 1 hand, have 1000+ win streaks!" but they'll never look at the streaks where survivors got so many 4-man outs in a row, without even giving those killers 1 hook. And it doesn't help that some people on here, who main killer, exaggerate how strong the killers are. I don't doubt in their ability or expertise, but when they say, "Clown and Freddy are really good! It's just that you guys haven't explored their potential yet!", it's just like… No.
@biggybiggybiggens said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876302#Comment_3876302
This guy gets it. 4 Survivors exploiting how good that side ACTUALLY can be will always feel so much worse than 1 Killer doing the only things they can to exploit Survivors….slugging/tunneling/camping. It'd be different if Killer players were not conditioned into realizing how hard it is to down very good Survivors. Eventually all Killers just say F it I'm tunneling this person out as they weren't turning on DBD to sweat. People want it easier and since that ease doesn't come from naturally going after other Survivors for most, that isn't what they are going to do..
It's inevitable that as a game's lifespan goes on, the players are gonna get better and start playing dirtier/more efficient. But I feel like this game's had that way accelerated due to survivors being immature and just demanding everything be handed to them. The survivor role really has never been that hard to play. You connect tiles together, use check spots, send 1 in to unhook, and do gens fast. But the most casual and biased of them got the devs' ears and said, "Killers having any agency in chase, or any meaningful slowdown, is OP!" So that's what you've got now, and it's why the past few years has just been a history of killers getting nerfed, resorting to new strats/perks, those get nerfed, resorting to new strats/perks, and the cycle continues because the base tools and mechanics they've got are not good enough.
A lot of killers used to be pretty decent. If you dropped some of them from their peak strength into the current game, some wouldn't be very good, like Freddy or Wraith, but others I think could be strong, like Deathslinger or Pinhead. I didn't like the Spirit nerf, because she went from a mindgame killer, which took lots of skill from both sides, to a killer who just chased faster... while phased. 🤷♀️ Freddy was a glorified M1 with a bit of slowdown, but still got nerfed because he was "S tier" and took "forever" to beat. Deathslinger really hits hard, because I mained him, and he's just ruined now. His quick scope and smaller TR are all he had, and they nerfed them. "His shots are unreactable!" You're not supposed to just be able to react to the killer's power. It's about being unpredictable. And Wraith pretty much has the most counterplay in the game, if you think about it, and he got nerfed just because he had a fast/long lunge...
I've been conditioned to tunnel. It physically feels bad when I force myself not to tunnel, because I know I'm making a bad play. But with the dumb DS rebuff, Shoulder The Burden, and all the other Terminator off-the-hook perks survivors get, I'm leaning more and more towards slugging. I've had pretty good successes with it. But after the devs nerf that, which they inevitably will, I really don't know what we're gonna do. Nobody wants to play a role where they're set to lose the moment they go against equally skilled opponents.