danielmaster87
danielmaster87
About
- Username
- danielmaster87
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/438499/game-is-way-killer-sided
You get a 4K every time you play killer unless the last survivor gets hatch? Ok, sure. Why are you wasting your time on this forum? You should be playing competitions or streaming and make some money because clearly you are one of the top players in the world. Pro streamers don’t even 4K “every time”
I know, right? All these never-lose killer players should be streamers or tourney players, so people can gawk at how good they are. Or teach us specifics of how to get better at killer. I want to know the secret of how to comeback a match where 1 decent chase led to over half the survivor objective being done.
-
@humanbeing1704 said:
in my opinion it’s still a giant crutch perk but barely anyone uses it anymore besides really bad people and that’s when you can definitely tell you’ll be hit by a Noed
Yeah. Almost nobody uses it. That kind of shows you why it's bad.
-
@I_Cant_Loop said:
It is a crutch perk for sure. A killer getting 2-3 kills from NOED at endgame because they played terrible for the whole rest of the match is super lame. There should be some kind of cooldown for one-shot hits to prevent killer from easily killing more than one survivor in endgame.
How do survivors run the killer like crazy all match, and then 2-3 get downed? It sounds like they actually weren't that good, and threw the game. Probably would lose without the NOED there.
-
Legion is higher than that. And it's really hard to do a tier list for this in the first place, because some killers work well by themselves, and some are dependent on getting other killers to synergize with them, or at least not sabotage their gameplan. Like how effective will Hillbilly be, really, if Legion is running around injuring everyone anyway?
-
I've been body blocked by them as killer, especially during a crucial Legion rush.
-
It's not worth it.
-
Yeah, I don't see it either. This mode brings something to the game, like it or not. Everyone, for years, was asking for exactly this: a 2v8 mode. But now they're backpedaling and saying, "This mode was never gonna work! Only a crazy person would think this a good idea!" The only thing they said before was that it would be killer sided because both killers would go around both sides of the loop, and down the survivor, which even I agreed with at the time. But to say those last 2 iterations were anything but survivor sided is just wrong. No bots, less killers, and just as ridiculous maps and abilities. I don't see a gigantic shift between those old ones and this new one, except for the inclusion of bots. They are doing something, just aren't playing as efficient as they should for being bots. Nobody enjoys playing with them as opposed to another real human. But if the bots are removed, the killer queue will be even crazier, because it's ridiculously long as it is. So on that situation, the devs are between a rock and a hard place.
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
Dont know how anyone can call 2v8 survivor-sided in any version of it.
Because when survivors know what they're doing, they're unstoppable, especially 6 or 8 of them.
-
@Tipsy said:
Its been the same since version 1. Very favored for survivors. With the amount of crazy safe pallet setups, all of them connecting and the fact survivors require less gen time compared to 4v1 (5gens/4survivors vs 8gens/8survivors), its kind of a no brainier which side is favored to with if both sides are of equal skill. Then you add all the crazy class ######### for survivors.
Butttttttt sbmm isnt a thing in 2v8 so what side if favored or not does not matter at all.That's pretty much what I think. The mode just released, but I usually default to the survivors being advantaged. People were complaining about Legion, and that they couldn't stun a good one, but with pallets for days AND THEN infinitely rebuilding pallets with their abilities, 1 of 8 if not 1 of 4 survivors is gonna stun him out of his ability. I still don't know why we don't see 4 Sprint Burst/Windows classes every time. It's objectively the best class, and always has been.
-
@Inosennatoki said:
2v8 in the first round, it feel balanced.
2v8 in the second 2, it become a survivor sided and generator is so fast
What are your thoughts on 2v8 in the third round?
It's too soon to call, and we may never know anyway, because there's no MMR.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
all killer with hand-holding game designs from 4vs1 mode end up being weak.
What does this mean?
-
@OnryosTapeRentals said:
Dracula might have 3 powers but they're all relatively intuitive to play against. It takes a couple of matches most of playing against Dracula to figure out what each of his forms do:
- Hellfire is a medium range attack that functions similarly to other killers (Nemesis, Pyramid Head, and Xeno). It's well telegraphed, the range is clearly visisble, and the SFX and animations make it clear what you got hit by.
- Wolf form is a dash attack that functons similarly to other killers (Wesker, Blight, Demogorgon, Houndmaster). Again, it's telegraphed, and clear what you got hit by.
- Bat form is the only power he has where it isn't super obvious what is going on and requires knowledge of how the killer operates to counter. But I'd say it's evened out by the fact he's pretty noisy as a bat, has a lullaby, and his teleport is well telegraphed.
Odds are if a survivor doesn't know Dracula, they've at least played against one of the other functionally similar killers and can quickly clock on to his similarity and engage in the counterplay. But Skull Merchant is a complete oddity in the roster. There is no killer like her so the counterplay is novel, and none of her kit was intuitive or well telegraphed.
Loading in as a new player against is her like:
- "Okay there are Drones that give me a little triangle on my HUD when I get scanned, but other than that I have no idea what they do." —> "Oh never mind I'm injured, broken, and hindered. —> "I best try to hide" —> *gets found straight away because the game doesn't make it clear she can see your location on a radar*
- Later in the game… *gets grabbed off a generator with no warning* because unlike the other stealth killers she has no tell that she's Undetectable (Myers' breathing, Onryo's lullaby, Wraith's grunting and partial invisibility, etc.)
- And to make matters more confusing, *constant second guessing distances in chase and confused about why she's catching up so quick* because a teammate is getting scanned across the map but the game doesn't clearly indicate what's going on so you're just left wondering "What am I doing wrong?"
Of course I'm exaggerating somewhat but the jist of it is that she was just overwhelmingly confusing for DbD's (primarily) casual and inexperienced audience. And it didn't help that her players garnered themselves a bad reputation by playing in some of the most disliked ways.
Her individual power(s) might not have been all that great, the problem was they weren't intuitive to play against.
She's not that much different from other killers, not to the extent you imply. You make it seem like nobody knows what her power is after 50 matches of playing against her. Aren't there tons of people playing who view Freddy, Ghost Face, Singularity, Unknown, etc the same? "Oh, it's Ghost Face. What the heck, I'm instantly down?!" You literally find out what Skull Merchant does after like 2-3 matches against her. Or simply play as her, that's a thought. Or just read her power description or look up gameplay on the Internet. That's not an unreasonable ask, and I'm sure 95% of the people who play the game have done just that for all the other killers that interested them or have given them difficulty.
Skull Merchant is just a character in a game. She's not info-immune in and out of the game, like Kira from Death Note or something. I'm more confused by how Sadako works, but that's because she's been changed like thrice, and I have just been too lazy to read on or play as her enough. And I've argued elsewhere here: Are we sure that the problem isn't with matchmaking? Because even if Skull Merchant is as convoluted as you argue, wouldn't that make it hard for the killer as well? Aren't new/casual killers just as capable of inefficiency and misunderstanding as survivors of that same level? And surely you're not suggesting that high level survivors just don't know anything about Skull Merchant either?
I know we've argued about this once before. If you're still not convinced, no point in beating a dead horse. I won't push the issue further. Hopefully we can agree on other things.
-
Because people pick and choose when a killer is strong, how strong they are, and how much they need a nerf, and how hard they should be nerfed. As much as I disagree with a lot of people on here, they're making actual arguments, with multiple points and somewhat understand the game. Others, the majority, just want something nerfed because they don't like it, or because they see it too often. No nuance, no double perspective (they play only survivor or only killer), no real argument, just emotion.
You're right, just from skimming what you've said. Despite Skull Merchant being worse in almost every way (speed, anti-loop, adaptability, tracking), people wanted her nerfed way harder and way before they even thought of nerfing Dracula. Why? Because she could defend gens, have occasionally stealth, and was sometimes fast... Doesn't that describe what a ton of killers can do? Wraith, Ghost Face, Chucky, Spirit, Xenomorph? Or any killer with gen perks, stealth perks, or Haste perks? "Oh, but she gets those for free." No she doesn't. She gets those things at the cost of a real killer ability, with real lethality or map pressure.
Really, people cannot even deal with a basic M1 killer. And for new survivors facing experienced killers, maybe that's understandable. But MMR is meant to keep those groups separate. If it was working correctly, that alone would fix the issue, because killers at that low a caliber aren't playing to their full potential just like the survivors aren't. If you just apply that logic to any killer, suddenly lots and lots of killer buffs become justifiable, because it'll minimally help the lowest level, and maximally help the highest level (which needs it the most). Instead, what we have now is killers judged at their top level strength being nerfed for their performance against bottom level survivors, with arguments of shaky foundation and inconsistent logic (as you point out) to justify it.
-
You can't stop people from chatting toxic. If they threaten you or your family, or dox you or something, please report it, of course. But yeah, trash talkers are gonna trash talk, and this game's got it about as bad as you'll see. Someone said something interesting recently, that games that have been around for 10 years or more have the most toxic fanbases, because of the elitism. I've been guilty of it, as have countless others, expecting all players new and old to know exactly what to do, to always perform excellently. But that's simply not human. Although, I'm less focused on players needing to play good, and more focused on the balance and matchmaking being good, so that casuals would theoretically not affect us much. But I digress.
What people really need is to stop seeing every play the opponent makes as a personal attack. The play can be unfair, OP, skilless, miserable, whatever you want to call it. But how do you know? How do you know that it's the intention of the other person to make you feel mad or powerless? Because literally, there's so many people who assume that, every match they play. They had a super easy match? It's either "That was a nice, honorable opponent" or "GG EZ!" They had a very hard match? "Oh my god, this person is SO TOXIC!" when they're just playing the game normally, to win, or sometimes even to have fun, people have that reaction still. Just emotionally detach yourself. You can get mad you lost a match, or that someone was legit being toxic like tbagging, hitting on hook, or post-game trash talk. But not everyone is out to ruin your day specifically.
-
@OnryosTapeRentals said:
2v8 was a doomed concept from the beginning. I’ve been saying for years that 2v8 would not be appealing for survivor because the game isn’t built to be chased by multiple killers.
It’s why Knight is so disliked. All of the resources survivors have are designed to stall ONE killer. Pallets and windows completely stop working when you add a second pursuer to the mix and that’s just not very fun. If they wanted 2v8 to work they needed to introduce some new resource or chase mechanic that helps survivors who are being tag teamed. But I can’t think of anything suitable that would neatly fit into the gameplay loop of DbD.
I understand people saw content creators playing 2v8 on custom servers and thought, “Hey that looks fun!” But it was never going to translate well to the actual game. The developers should have known this and just said “Sorry, not a possibility”. Now we have wasted so much time on a mode that I don’t think is ever going to work long-term.
It can work because it has. I didn't think the previous 2 iterations were perfect, but they were really fun, except when survivors knew how to play, because then they just won every time. But I never got bored of either side, just a little irked by long killer queues. And I'd prefer it as a permanent option, but it seems all the queues take a hit every time it comes back. I just don't think y'all are cutting the mode enough slack, and are likely to convince the devs to end it for good. I'd also prefer if the devs worked on side modes like this WHILE balancing the game and working on new chapters. That's not too much to ask of them; they're not a "small indie studio" anymore.
-
@Hex_Ignored said:
Bots didn't reduce queue times because bots actively discourage real players from queuing up for the mode, so while each lobby now only needs 6 survivors, they also need to be willing to play with 2 dead weights on their team, which is why there is a lot of lobby dodging going on. No one wants a bot teammate.
Lobby dodging what? They're still gonna be put in a queue with bots, unless they get really lucky to be put in with a 7-man squad.
-
@100PercentBPMain said:
If legon wasn't here we'd just be complaining about huntress. You're welcome BTW
That is true. And anyone saying Huntress wasn't hated before have short memories. Killers didn't like her because everyone wanted to play as her, so nobody could (except through way longer queues). Survivors didn't like her... simply because she was common. Neither reason were legitimate grounds for hating her or her implementation, and yet that's what I saw.
-
We're not getting rid of Legion in this mode. That's a non-negotiable. Maybe the Never Sleep Pills variant should be the 2v8's default? Longer Frenzy, slower speed. But as it stands, I'm not completely convinced that he needs any changes from what he is now. He's injuring the whole match, so you mend a few seconds and then push gens injured, same optimal strategy as in standard, and then only have to deal with 1 killer downing you, except you're 8 instead of 4 now.
-
@Hex_Ignored said:
Bots happened. They are atrocious and so far there seems to be at least 1 in every lobby, but more often than, not it's actually 2. Also, legion. I don't think I need to elaborate.
I did see what looked like a bot, who wasn't marked as one, slowly walking back and forth between my cage and the gen he was on. So I hope there aren't any 'hidden' bots the devs have included as well.
-
@Ricardo170373 said:
Because u will face agaisnt Legion - The top 3 disgusting killers to face against, because u face agaisnt wesker with that bizare and boring hug techs and because u face against the nemesis and face against his year bugged tentacle. And of course, u have bots on lobbys now. So, I wont touch this mode as survivor this time, NEVER. Boring as hell
Not every killer has bugs helping them. But I'll do my part and switch off of Legion after my next match, if he's gonna be the most popular and lengthen the queue times. That's my concern, not his supposed "boring" gameplay. I think all these new inclusions are super interesting, didn't you think?
-
@Nazzzak said:
Yup. But we knew this would happen despite certain people telling us it wouldn't.
I don't think a single person was predicting this or not predicting this exactly, that the bots would always die last. But I don't think anyone was happy about the bots' inclusion either.
-
@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882951#Comment_3882951
Have you actually tried 2v8 as survivor AGAINST Legion?
Because from the few games I've played today, it seemed indeed that he is uncounterable. I have only played like 4-5 games but I've faced him every single game… and I died every single game. I would normally consider exaggerated to call Legion a "mending simulator" in 1v4. But in 2v8 it's actually what happens. Legion basically never tries to chase you, only injures you with his power, then runs away, then comes back when you're healed, then repeat.
So either you spend the whole game trying to heal, or you decide to stay injured. BUT and this is really the major problem in 2v8 is that the typical counterplay of "not healing against Legion" does not work anymore, because there's now a 2nd killer. Normally, Legion is weak against injured survivors. But the 2nd killer isn't. Typically it will be a fast/stealthy killer like Blight, Wesker or Wraith.
But then he is never a threat of downing you, and you're up against 1 killer as usual, except for the mend slowdown. Otherwise, he gives up his frenzy for a bit to chase as M1 trash. Don't you see how the killer side is compromised as well?
-
@MaddieMage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882755#Comment_3882755
I never said anything about healing against legion. I said mending. You have to mend against him unless you wanna bleed out in the ground.
Well, it is exactly what I'm seeing. People healing against Legion, all match long, even when he's paired with a killer who can instadown. Double the value given to the killers, for free.
While my initial hypothesis was wrong, that he wouldn't go for injured survivors (he will, just to keep his chain going), almost every rush I've done has failed to make an 8-chain. Either the survivors run out the meter by the second hit, or they stun. And they stun and they stun and they stun, because they're good at the game AND because they can recreate pallets infinitely. That's something nobody factored in. And the mend, while it is slowdown, it's only a couple seconds, and then you're back to doing gens or looping as normal. The reason that kind of slowdown seems so radical in this mode is because no other killers have any, except for Wesker and Nemesis with their cures. They're resigned to kicking gens which could be done 30 seconds after they walk away, and which retain the 8-kick limit from the main mode.
-
@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882634#Comment_3882634
Okay I'll bite, medium high what survivors , killers , or both? Also why do you think they should balance around medium high players? Just some probing questions.
I think they should balance around the top because they have the most knowledge and are the most likely to exploit and find the flaws in certain things. You can't have one side at the very top consistently beating the other best players in the game, that's not balance, you have to look at the bigger picture. It's rigged from the top down at that point no matter which side it pertains to if you don't balance around them. That's just my opinion though. Are there things that can change to increase the overall health of the game on both sides, absolutely. You can't change one in a major way without changing the other side though, and I hope more people keep that in mind. You get what you want but there are costs, and you probably don't want to pay them or maybe you do. That movie the substance comes to mind "Respect the balance, there is no you or them, you are one" Right now, I think blight is one of the few killers that can give that level a run for their money while not completely stalling the game to absurd times for every one else in matches.
I've argued this for years. If the top level of your game is not balanced, like at all, how could the rest of it possibly be balanced? And so, it isn't. The only thing that stops killers from getting wrecked every single match is that survivors don't capitalize on everything they're given, or they make huge blunders, or occasionally they just get extremely unlucky.
A killer's absence or extreme rarity in tourney and high level probably means they're not any good. And in tourney, survivors have all these restrictions put on them, and they still get wins constantly. So I'm not convinced when all these people say, "You're just not good at killer, and haven't unlocked their full potential." or something along those lines. Because to me, the history of DBD is a history of killers nerfs. The most egregious examples of unhealthy things in the game that were nerfed were on the survivor side. Instaheals that took you from on the ground to healthy, BNP instantly completing gens, infinite loops, pallets and strong tiles linked every 5 feet, gigantic maps, exhaustion perks that worked while you're exhausted, free stuns on the killer with DS, Endurance after taking 2 hits with Mettle, etc. What did killers have that was so strong they needed nerfing? Stuff that slowed gens down, gave killers agency in chase instead of the survivor, add-ons that gave a decent effect, info perks, M1 killers, kicking gens, etc. It's not even close.
Even just ignoring the argument of which side has had it worse, there's still people arguing for very casual balance changes. And that's an oxymoron; you don't balance for casuals. Yet here we are. People are convinced that mere info is what causes 1 side to win or lose. On the killer's lack of an individual hook counter, I'd agree. I hate having to use coins, out of game, to track who I've hooked and who I haven't. But I'm not gonna blame survivors using Windows for why I lost, or blame the killer using aura perks for why I lose as survivor. Information is only as useful as the ability the player has to capitalize on it. Good survivors don't care if they're seen by aura, because they'll just loop you. Good killers don't care either, because the check spots at loops let you see and outmaneuver them anyway. And yet these things are a lot of what see being complained about.
So I may be wrong. Maybe people are onto something, saying we should balance around casuals. It's a revolutionary idea, I'll say. But what we have now, which is a game state that virtually everyone disapproves of, is a direct result of balancing like that.
-
I reject this premise every time it arises. The only reason you're playing a "mending simulator," or mending the whole match is because you keep healing over and over, which is the worst thing you can possibly do against Legion because that gives him value of his power. You're spending 20-30 seconds healing at minimum, and then he comes by and re-injures AND deep wounds you in 2 seconds. Not smart. He could, of course, keep deep wounding you while you're injured, but then he's just wasting time to get nothing in return. That would be a net positive for you.
@JonahofArk said:
I hear you. Legion was not the play for2v8. They need to completely overhaul his kit cause its not fun to comstantly mend the whole trial. Not to mention theres really nothing you can do for their power. A good legion would bait out pallet stuns, locker dives, and window vaults, so theres essentially no counterplay against it
I've never heard someone say there's no counterplay to Legion. That being true would make him the strongest killer in the game, more than Nurse/Blight/Spirit, because at least they* have counterplay!
I know it's hard for 6-8 players to know to spread out against Legion, because the regular 4 have a hard time realizing that. But that doesn't mean you're unable to do anything against the killer. Even if he always hits you because your teammates let him chain frenzy all the way to you, you know how to hold forward and waste time, or pallet stun. No Legion is 100% perfect at baiting out pallet drops. And at the end of the day, he's M1.
-
It definitely wouldn't have been my first solution, but I hope it at least cuts down the queue times for killers. I did think the bots needed more improvement to their AI. If the devs didn't do anything different, and just put the same bots that were in 1v4 into 2v8, you could be looking at 2 dead weight teammates as survivor basically every time.
-
@LockerLurk said:
The problem is, they previously tried all this and it didn't work, except pipping for grades which for the life of me I don't understand WHY NOT, it can't be that hard to implement.
The issue isn't bots, though they don't help. The issue is, nobody wants to play Survivor when the 2 part of 2v8 is and always has been the big draw.
The bigger issue is that Killer has simply always and always will be the much more fun mode. You never played Survivor "for fun". You played it to hang with friends.
I play survivor for fun. I like playing both sides of the chase.
-
@Raptorrotas said:
"Intended gameplay is to use hooks" ; so why arent survivors picking up the slugs? Thats "intended gameplay" too. Just pick up the downed survivor. If you can spare the time to unhook you got the same time to help up.
Maybe devs should look into just instant sacrificing all survivors if all survivors are incapacitated beyond recovery again
That definitely puts it into perspective. I've even seen solos counterplay Knockout very easily. They just crawl to/pick up each other. That's all it takes. It's not complicated.
-
I was for a faster bleed-out option, but that's just the same as giving up on hook, so I changed my mind. Most likely, they're gonna give free Unbreakable, and then I don't know what will happen.
-
@LockerLurk said:
Well considering the political state in the US right now, and the fact that a lot of NA servers share space between the US and Canada, have you ever considered that people in the US are too distracted and scared by said political mess, protesting, etc. to want to play DBD right now? It's hard to focus on a game when you feel as though your country is dying after all.
Reaching.
-
@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882241#Comment_3882241
Prestige means nothing
It's indicative of playtime. Now, that could mean that the person put all of their BP into 1 character, or that they have 15+ survivors at P100. We don't know. But I think that means the player is experienced, not a pushover.
-
Not really. They expect video or screenshot evidence, but when you try to upload those things on the report section on console, or the report section on these forums, the file type is incompatible, unless the situation has changed because I haven't tried reporting in a while. And of course, if you have to close out of the report section on console even for a second, because you went back to get a piece of information they required, you have to start the whole thing all over again.
-
Did you rage quit or did the game disconnect you?
-
@Yggleif said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881744#Comment_3881744
....
I literally said he's mid as far as his power level goes. Where is the reading comprehension?
Then why bother saying that he's boring? Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't consider any killer boring, mostly because I don't care if they are or not. Either I can do well against them or I can't. The "boring" tag, to me, just adds another layer of vague buzz words that make a killer's power level hard to assess when we're talking about them. I could say Nurse is boring, because I'm bad at running her. What's that mean? Only I know. I can explain it, but usually when people say that, they don't explain it, or give a really bad justification.
-
@UndeddJester said:
Meh, my advice would be play to improve your skills and your fundamentals, don't play to win. Try to win sure, but don't play with winning as your primary goal.
Playing meta perks and strats constantly makes you reliant and lazy. Take weak killers, experiment with all kinds of add-ons and perks, make silly builds and don't fallback to excessive slugging and tunneling constantly. You can win with these things, they are tools in your toolbox, but if you allow yourself to always take the easy path to victory, you won't have an extra gear to turn up to when you need it.
If you play for self growth rather than wins: -
- The outcome of the match doesn't matter
- Hatch doesn't matter
- Teabags don't matter
- Bull squads don't matter
- Arrogant end game chat warriors who think they're something special for escaping vs. A Pig with Iron Maiden don't matter
- Salty biscuits who whine against a Trapper running Distressing/Unnerving Presense don't matter
Its amazing how much more fun the game becomes when you get impressed by survivors playing well and teaching you something, instead of getting mad you lost.
We're tired of improving. At 3000-5000 hours in, we expect to start seeing the fruits of our labor, but instead we get continually told to get better. Well, when is the survivors' time to get better? I haven't seen it. They've had the same broken tiles and perks for years, and it's such a taboo to criticize those things, that killers have bought into it and turned to blaming stuff like Windows for their defeats. It's the loops, not Windows, that's to blame for straight-up not being able to get good survivors.
We want to win, because that's how skill is shown and how reward is given in every other game in the world. I hate this "invent your own win condition" idea. Now, we do win, but not enough at the times when it truly matters. Anybody can beat a subpar survivor team. It's why killers supposedly go on all these long streaks, numbering in the triple or sometimes quadruple digits (poppycock). But the moment 1 decent team appears, it's over. I'm experienced at running no-gen defence builds, and the time crunch is absolutely ridiculous. It's like there's a certain amount of time you need to kill the survivors, and the game only gives you half that much time. And if you do run gen defence, then you sacrifice info or lethality, leading to an equal lack of momentum. So all you're doing, really, is counting on survivors to make blunder after blunder, or else I guess you just lose, and then get told "You can't win them all." We'd love to legitimately get outplayed and call it GGs, but that almost never happens.
Saying that tunneling and slugging is the easy path, and that it's a crutch and gives you stuff you didn't earn, is just wrong. Like, what do you mean? It takes a certain amount of game awareness just to realize those strategies are the best. Then comes execution. You have to still maintain quick time to down to even make the strategies work, especially slugging. Doing these things isn't at the cost of practicing on chase; they're done at the same time.
I like the idea that you can simply let go and not really care as much, just like I don't get as mad anymore at losing these scripted matches. But you can become so detached from the tension of the game that you don't even want to play anymore. That's what we don't want to do: throw in the towel. That's 1 of 2 things I think a lot of the playerbase wants to have happen to killer players. The second would be to just keep playing killer no matter what, even though the game literally doesn't support the ability for the role to win. It's been said countless times recently, about hooking, downing, injuring, and even chasing continually becoming less worthwhile. You just look at the history of balance changes, and there's your proof. Whereas survivors cried injustice about losing infinites, instaheals, keys that let you skip the gens, DS that could only deactivate through the timer, and DH for distance, killers lost... stuff that made the gens slower or chases faster… when they played well. 🤷♀️ It's not their fault that the survivor's objective is way faster than theirs, and the gap keeps getting wider.
-
@TieBreaker said:
What's with all the nihilism over a computer game? If a game makes you this bitter, then sorry to say it, but you need to go work on yourself. Go find something that's actually worthwhile in life to invest your time in. Maybe then a game won't cause you to spiral this bad.
You won't be able to isolate this kind of attitude to just the game, it will infect your entire personality. Feel free to embrace it, but don't start complaining when you end up as a friendless, miserable sod. Nobody wants to be around someone with such a lousy attitude.
There's the gaslighting. You really think that the game and its community has nothing to do with it? The game has a golden formula, which makes it fun, and that's why people play even when they don't have the best time. People would rather invest themselves in the game and hope for it to improve, even if it's in a rough patch, rather than to abandon it. Doesn't that sound like the opposite of nihilism to you?
It's like the pushback against people in real life who've decided to put their foot down, and upset others for the purpose of teaching them a life lesson. "How could you do such a cruel thing?!" It's about voicing your disapproval to things that seem wrong. He's seeing that when killers play nice, they get just as harsh treatment back as if they were doing the "toxic" strategies. So he said enough is enough, and shared his revelation with others, that they need not play nice, and should instead focus on playing the best they can. The people advocating against that, and saying that you should throw the game so that your opponents can have more fun, when they'll never do the same for you... they're either delusional or just ignorant.
I don't know what logic you're going off of that you came up with all of that, but this person's experience is not unique. Tons of people complain about the game, some more constructively than others, and they still have friends outside of the game. It's easy to character assassinate someone, and imply things about them that you can't possibly know, especially when it suits your side's narrative (or just yours alone). That is what's wrong with this community. They're more concerned with insults, and trying to make others feel as insane and alone as possible, rather than with improving the game.
-
@TragicSolitude said:
At the minimum killers should not get normal blood points. Cut it by half at least to show hey you won, but not really.
I'm not sure why we still have the killer role at all anymore, really. BHVR should just make killers NPCs. It would make balancing a lot easier. No more add-ons, no needing to try to make the match fun and balanced for two different sides, no needing to take BP away from the killer. Survivors outnumber killers 4 to 1 anyway, might as well get rid of the straggler role.
I'm sort of being ironic there… but sometimes I really do wonder why the killer role exists at all anymore. It often seems like a large amount of the playerbase would prefer if killers just went away. These are all just people playing a game, and you're saying that you don't like the way BHVR designed the role, so let's punish the people who play the role by halving the reward they receive.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881773#Comment_3881773
The devs use add-ons to give players choices. Like Spirit's add-ons. The way they balance Spirit, they start with a baseline. The devs probably consider her a bit weak at the baseline. Then, the player can choose how to make her stronger. Faster recharge speed or faster movement speed or longer phase-walk time. The devs can't give her all those things at baseline, she'd be too strong. And if the devs choose which ones they prefer and make those basekit while removing add-ons entirely, players would all disagree, saying, "No, she feels garbage now, I preferred buffing this other part of her kit."
It's like that for all the killers. Do some killers have problematic add-ons? Yeah, of course. Blight's old Alchemist's Ring was seen as hugely lowering the amount of skill required to play Blight. But in general the killers are designed with weaknesses in their kit and players choose which parts of their kit are important to them, sometimes at a great cost (like Trapper's Trapper Sack).
You're right on most things. They really take away every appealing option killers could possibly have. All of the strongest survivors perks activate upon hook, and do crazy stuff for them too, like a free stun because they got downed again, or a 3rd health state. And yet killers are bullied into going for hooks still, because slugging "is toxic."
Alchemist's Ring rewarded you for getting hits with your power, while still giving survivors adequate time to adjust for the next rush, hence their free sprint burst. And it was a purple btw. Nerfing it was a bad call.
-
Yeah. SWF absolutely destroys this killer. Every time. Even though I keep hearing "He dominates solo! And is a big challenge even for SWF?" In what way? I don't understand. Overall, he's barely stronger than before. Instead of having to pre-place snares at loops, he's now firing them at you, which can actually miss if he does it too fast or you dodge. And his dream pallets are probably weaker than before, because survivors can throw them before you can explode them, even while still awake. What is the problem? He's M1 trash. If he's "oppressive" to you, no wonder all the other killers are considered "unbelievably OP!"
-
@buggybug said:
I think its someone whos throwing or probably new tbh. Then again i see people have like self care with strength in shadows or circle with self care. Overall yeah people can have some quite interesting builds. I stop running exhaust perks 3 years now since 6.1 so mm I guess it's quite weird whenever I see someone doing it knowing youncant do more than one at a time.
I used to think Exhaustion perks were auto-include, like "How are you playing this game without an Exhaustion perk?" But really, it's not essential. It is in that at least 1-2 people on a team should probably have it, because Sprint Burst and Dramaturgy are free head starts on the killer, and Balanced and Lithe can be the same if not chase extenders. But not all 4 players have to run one, especially if killers are commonly running anti-Exhaustion perks.
-
I think it's stupid. Sure, it helps you in different scenarios and can catch the killer off guard, but then what? You've essentially wasted a perk slot that could've been used for a meta perk. Exhaustion perks are meta, just not 2 of them. It's redundant. Now imagine the killer has some anti-Exhaustion thing, or otherwise counter your perk, like Plague or Legion vs Overcome. Now you've wasted 2 perk slots.
And personally, my friend who thinks he knows everything about the game, despite probably having half my hours, and who still thinks hiding is viable... He thinks it's a good idea. Therefore, I think it's a bad idea. ☕
-
You can make fun of killers with legitimate strong opponents, but these cherry picked games don't disprove a thing. You won a few matches. So what?
I like how you're using Pyramid Head as an example, who's top of A tier, and who you clearly caged tunneled the Claudette with. That, or she gave up.
But in general, most of your opponents' builds were actually trash, save 1-2 perks. There's Left Behind/Sole Survivor, Urban Evasion, Self-Care in 2025, Iron Will with Exhaustion perks, a whole build around Strength In Shadows, etc. A lot of them decided not to bring items, add-ons, or offerings for some reason. Probably chest searchers as well.
And what are you using? Claustrophobia, Rapid Brutality without STBFL, Tinkerer and Plaything together. I know at least some of those survivors had to be throwing. The killers you picked are decent at least, because I'd pick them, but then again I play a lot of killers despite calling them weak.
Once again, it's not that killers don't ever win. I've had nights where I win all night, save 1 or 2 matches. It's that when you lose, or have a really difficult match, the effort that survivors had to put in vs what you had to do is not even close. You're juggling gens, good chases, dropping bad chases, playing around perks, trying to get max value from perks, knowing how to run tiles, remembering what pallets are dropped/broken, remembering survivors' perks and hook states. The survivors: I sit on a gen a bit, predrop pallets, and equip a perk. I win!
It might not seem that way to your average survivor team, but then, the average survivor is trash. It's good survivors we want to beat, not just whatever MMR cobbled together. The game simply isn't balanced for killers to face opponents of their same skill level. When they do, it's 5 gens in 5 minutes, and Terminator mode survivors once you've hooked them, that you have to outplay non-stop the whole match. If killer was OP instead, as most claim, that would be like survivors not even getting 1-2 gens done, and losing. That doesn't happen vs survivors who know what they're doing.
-
@UndeddJester said:
His macro play is strong.
Mangled effects are quite good on him cause he makes timing heals awkward at certain points.
His strength depeletes if you have 4 strong survivors, but any weak links in the team allow him to build pressure quite easily.
Pallets give him the tools he needs to zone and get hits even against good loopers, but he's not oppressive in this regard.
He sits at a respectable spot in the roster now. Fun to play, not oppressive, not weak, and an opponent you at least have to be wary of tricky perks and playstyles. All in all a success to my mind.
Every killer's macro play can* be strong. But you've got to be able to get the downs to make it work, and Freddy just doesn't have that. His strength depletes if you have 1 strong survivor, and that doesn't equate to 3 weak links. If it did, he'd be an ez 4k machine. I think he is weak, especially because of how they did the dream pallets. The survivors can pre-destroy them even while awake, so that's weaker than before, and the range and detonation time are just bad. I don't think he's a success at all. He's slightly better than before, and that's not saying anything considering he was like the literal worst killer in-game.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881282#Comment_3881282
what is consistent about him? the fact that everyone can spam alarm clocks requiring you to use 2 dream snares to put them to sleep before your ability works? with cooldown nerf to snares, that is total of 14 seconds at min.
He also has imo the best teleport in the game, it really helps with large maps. You can also use in chase too and he also has dream pallets which whilst they are map dependant they will at the very least make dead zones more deadly.
His teleport can be pre-shift w''d. the honest best case use of his teleport was to run dead man switch and cancel teleports onto generator to block them. Now you suffer the full cooldown. The new functionality of teleportation on healing survivor doesn't work vs experienced teams that spam clocks.
i rather play wraith over freddy. playing freddy vs swf feels like your getting bullied the entire game.
Yeah, super duper bullyable, like Wraith. He just doesn't have much. Even though I'll argue that there's nothing wrong with him having SOME control in chase, or with his power being "spammable" in chase, it's because it cancels Bloodlust build-up AND still doesn't stop survivors from getting to the pallet/window most of the time.
I don't know how anyone can say he's got the best teleport in-game when Hag, Dredge, and Unknown have "instant" teleports, although they're still inadequate because of the slow/unresponsive ability to act out of tp. Freddy's is literally like Pinhead's tp, with the distance you're predetermined to have on him.
-
@Yggleif said:
He's very mid power level-wise but I think he's extremely boring to go against. Either he finds you while you're immune and he's a joke or he finds you while you're asleep and it's just another boring speed differential killer.
But does that make him strong?
Y'all get too caught up in how a killer makes you feel, or how exciting he is to go against, when every killer is existence is gonna get less exciting the more you get used to him. "Boring" has lost all meaning in this game.
-
@OrangeBear said:
I think he's a fun relatively easy killer with amazing perk synergy. Counterplay on survivor side is effective, fun and engaging.
I think he will have a high kill rate due to how consistent he is, although his highest potential doesn't warrant nerfs in my opinion. There needs to be killers like freddy that are easy but decently strong.He is fun. But that always translates to survivors' fun, not the killer's fun, because he's still having to sweat to get anything. You have to hit someone with 2 snares to put them asleep from full, so that you can actually use your abilities, and his pallets are near useless. What's consistent or strong about that?
-
If this is the best they can do, we're in trouble.
Freddy gets slowdown for teleporting/faking teleport, and it gives the full cooldown if you do fake it. Because skillfully multitasking/mindgaming people should be punished, right?
The teleporting to healing survivors rarely happens when you need it to, and when you do it's just like Pinhead's teleport, or Freddy's teleport in general, where you're giving up pressure on 1 survivor to potentially pressure 1-2, and they always have an early lead on you.
His pallets are seeable and droppable by awake survivors, literally not making any sense, which makes an already weak power weaker. The pallet explosion starts too late and ends too early, and survivors are better off just taking the M1. And the pallet count is extremely limited, which the survivors doesn't need just for it to be balanced. What'd you think would happen if Freddy had like 20? That alone would make him OP?
Awake survivors aren't affected by dream abilities, and sleep immune survivors can't even be put to sleep with snares. And they're sleep immune all the time because of the snapping out and the dream clock change. So you'd better pay perfect attention to the UI so you don't accidentally chase/use abilities on an immune survivor.
Snares are the most overrated thing he has. They're almost worse than old snares, because at least you could place them at a loop, and a survivors would have to run through or around them and get slowed. Now that you have to aim it, the survivors can react and dodge the slowdown completely. They're like worse Artist crows that don't even injure. You can change the size/speed of them, I believe, with add-ons, but now you've got an add-on dependent killer.
And yet, people want this killer nerfed. "He feels oppressive." Really? An M1, A tier? Are you going to ask that Clown or Doctor be nerfed as well, because their abilities in effect do the same thing (stopping survivors from getting to the pallet/window before taking a hit)? Or is it just a prejudice against buffed killers who were formerly trash? Because I saw this same nonsense play out with Vecna, Chucky, Dracula, Blight's Adrenaline Vial, Wraith, Twins (old), Skull Merchant, Singularity, etc. Seriously, let killers be just a little bit strong, so they stand a chance against good survivors, and the rest will adapt in time.
-
@Na1ts1rhc said:
Killers are in a good spot right now. If you don't know about shoulder the burden, keep in mind that survivors can take hook states from others so if you were one to tunnel in the past it isn't as effective now. Also I'd recommend looking at the known issues since there are some bugs rn that are disheartening (e.g. Dark Lord (Dracula) can get locked out of the bloodweb)
😂 Such a good spot, despite have less in every area than before! That makes total sense!
-
@Samwill226 said:
Is it worth coming back? How is the balance now. Anything to watch out for if I do return?
Basically everything you had is gone, to where now people are considering slugging as a full-time playstyle. And even that sounds like it's getting nerfed soon.
-
@Hunkulese said:
Items and add-ons aren't comparable at all. Survivor teams also get 16 add-ons every game compared to the killer's 4.
Which is why people essentially arguing, "Killer add-ons should do next to nothing" are silly.
-
@Icaurs said:
I have played this game since 2017 on and off. That's not to comment about my skill, just that I have seen the game change a lot. In early DBD which strove to create a wacky fun experience for all players I supported killer addons, old flashlights, medkits and everything else. But eventually the direction changed to one of balance.
This game is the most balanced it has ever been. So why are killer addons still viable? I mean they seriously nerfed toolboxes, medkits and keys. Sure that's all fine, but why can I throw on addon that boosts my killer power? Even small changes have big impact. Look at made for this with it's 3% increase. So you can't argue that even small boosts in killer power don't have a huge impact. The more power addons are like versing completely different killers. If a killer needs the addon, then why not make it basekit and remove the all addons. There is no reason most killers need a power boost.
At the minimum killers should not get normal blood points. Cut it by half at least to show hey you won, but not really. If you are going to say well remove survivor items as well. Might as well most of them have been nerfed into inconsequence.
What?!
How is this game even close to balanced? And you literally debunk yourself when you say that killer add-ons shouldn't be viable as (you say) they are now. Wouldn't that mean the game's currently very unbalanced?
I think we all know why toolboxes, medkits, and keys were nerfed. Toolboxes allowed a survivor to boost a gen's progress over a long period of time. They were reworked, really, so that you're getting as much of a boost as you were, but it's just more progress in less time. If anything, they're better now. Medkits were broken because the killer would hit someone, drop chase, and then 15 seconds later they're healed again. They just wasted all that time in chase, essentially. So medkits were made to be more altruistic, boosting the healing speed of teammates rather than yourself, and in fact you can still heal yourself, just not lightning fast. Keys were nerfed because the objective of the game is to do the gens and get out exits, not do some gens, punish the killer for killing more survivors than gens done, and you and potentially multiple teammates getting out for free.
Killers are continually having an uphill battle to remain viable, because doing chases and hooking as the game intended is not viable. They tried using gen defence, they tried camping, they tried tunneling, they tried hexes, they tried different once-strong killers like Spirit, Freddy, Wraith, Pinhead, they've tried chase perks, they've tried slugging, and they've different add-ons as well. All nerfed. Whatever pushes a certain killer to its strongest, or at least what's viable, people are gonna continue to find out and use. Are pink and purple killer add-ons not supposed to be strong? That the question I ask nerf-happy survivor mains. Because if not, what's the point of having rarity at all? I don't say, "Take away all survivor items and add-ons." I could easily make an argument against instaheals or BNP being too strong, but I think there's more pressing issues than even those.
The stuff that has been nerfed is really wild to me, and to you as well if you just look at the history. Huntress got her instadown hatchets limited to 1. Fair enough. But then they nerfed Clown's "instadown" add-on, Redhead's Pinky Finger, because "It does the same thing." No. How are they even remotely the same? It gives exposed, only for as long as the survivor is Hindered, and only after a direct bottle hit, which is hard af to do, especially point-blank. The amount of wasted time and energy would often allow the survivor to get to a safe place anyway, unless the Clown had robotically perfect aim. When other Clowns were running it with the 2 extra bottles add-on, I was running it with the brown Fingerless Parade Gloves, because it sped up the bottles' travel speed itself and made them easier to land. Then the add-on was nerfed to reduce the bottle count by 2. So now you had to run a pink and a purple to get the same effect as you used to. This is on one of the weakest killers in the game, btw, who needed this add-on to be viable or else he just wasn't. Then they nerfed it to lock the bottle count to 1, and at that point it becomes clear the devs had malice against Clown players, because they just did whatever nerfs the survivors asked of them, with no forethought to what actually goes down in a match. Now you never see Clown; he's back to square 1.
People literally never saw Adrenaline Vial, didn't even know it existed, because of how weak the original version was. It massively capped your turn rate, although PC could and still does override with their mouse flicks, something to remember later. It had this downside in exchange for several upsides, 3-4, including increased rushing speed, increased token recharge, and increased look angle. Combo'd with the green turn rate add-on, Umbra Salts, and you had an actually decent altogether effect. So the devs buffed the add-on, making the turn rate reduction slightly less, and leaving everything else the same. Suddenly out of nowhere, survivors started complaining about the add-on. "This add-on is crazy OP! All those effects!" I laughed at them, and tried to explain about the downside and the rarity justifying its strength. They didn't listen, and in fact they got the last laugh, because soon enough it was nerfed, per their complaints. Unnerfed Crown/Rat was still a thing, but no, let's call for a nerf on Adrenaline Vial, which nobody used before its buff. I tried to compromise and say, "PC flicks, which break the turn rate, is why the add-on is so strong. Console Blights are only slightly more powerful because of this add-on, and probably still need to run a turn rate add-on as well." Again, they didn't listen. Strong killer to be pushing back against his nerfs, I know, but that doesn't make a difference if you've understood all I've said.
Wraith used to be pretty good too. And besides the ludicrous nerfs he got to his kit, he also had his add-ons nerfed. His Shadow Dance add-ons, which speed up kicking and vaulting speeds. It also used to open lockers faster, a really good tool against the then-possible flashlight save from locker grab exploit, and against survivors hiding in and out of lockers, holding the killer hostage. Why was this effect removed? No reason, at all. It might have even been a shadow nerf, not even announced, but there was absolutely no discussion around the effect to justify removing it. He also had has All-Seeing Blood nerfed, the one that let him see auras while cloaked. Why was it nerfed? "Because it lets the killer see me." So killers aren't allowed to see people's auras, or use it to skillfully out-mindgame survivors at loops. Got it. The add-on still has the same effect, just with less range, but that range is pitiful. And all this was done against an M1 killer, but I guess he's "OP" because "invisible plus fast equals strong."
The less BP angle is just weird. Why would you give players less score and currency? How does that help the game?