danielmaster87
danielmaster87
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@xGodSendDeath said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886030#Comment_3886030
The skill level of the average survivor player has gone up exponentially. If you took the multi thousand hour survivors how they play today and time traveled them to old DbD the killers would never win
I actually disagree. I think the average survivor caliber has gone way down, because there's nothing pushing them to improve at the game. Any time they face any difficulty, mommy BHVR steps in and nerfs the killer so that they can win. I think the average killer skill has gone way up, because only the most mentally resilient and elite killers will have stayed playing the role with all the nonsense it's been through, and that's why the survivors are complaining the killer's always OP. The MMR system puts the mid survivors with these really good killers, and they oftentimes lose because of that. But oftentimes even they win, because they've got so much free stuff going for them.
I agree about the transporting to the past part. If I had the experience I had now, and went back let's say 2 years ago, I would be slaying. Killer has just lost so much in so little time, I'm frustrated that I never appreciated or never capitalized on how "good" we had it back then.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885980#Comment_3885980
so you hit the survivor off hook to put them in deep wound, and now what do they have for "second chances"? nerfed DS, where vs half the roster distance means nothing and you're immediately injured and in chase again?
Except it doesn't mean nothing. The power in DS isn't the stun duration (that's just extra), but in the fact the killer has to re-chase you, possibly commiting to a bad play, or else they got nothing for chasing you, downing you, and picking you up. And it's far from guaranteed to go immediately down again. That would imply that the killer could just do that in any event, in which case you're not playing well.
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@upsideinsanity said:
Killer mains will continue to find ways around these changes and make the game more miserable for survivors.
Gen rush because "gen perks nerfed to the ground" - ok tunnel one out
Anti-tunnel perks - just start slugging
Go next epidemic - just slug more
Can't camp/slug/tunnel efficiently - __________ (we will see)
Maybe stop playing like every game is a competitive game because killers try harder so survivors have to try harder so killers have to try harder so on and so forth and here we are.
Dude, are killers not allowed to play to win? That's what you're saying, as justification for all of this speculation. I don't play to make survivors miserable. I'm just playing the game, and if these strategies are required to win, I will use them. The killer perks really have been nerfed to the ground, to where mediocre stuff like Brutal Strength and Agitation are probably in the top 10 killer perks now, because at least you get something from them. And there are survivor perks, which haven't really been touched that counter all these strategies like tunneling and slugging. Use them.
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@xGodSendDeath said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885743#Comment_3885743
That doesn't mean these perks are good, there just isn't anything better to run. Pain Res in particular is overrated. There are so many different factors that make the perk unreliable such as hook Spawn RNG, you're more vulnerable to Sabo going for one, and sometimes the survivors finish a gen right before you get the hook and it works on a gen with zero progress and you got no value
Exactly. People think that Pain Res 100% of the time gets max value, hits the right gen exactly when the killer needs it to, and that the killer's always able to stop the gen before it's finished, and that you're able to make the Scourge Hook in the first place. They have no idea how difficult it is to make any killer perk work, because they've either never played the role, or they played 5 matches against noobs and said, "See?" But I remember a time where killers were using peak Pop and peak Pain Res, were getting like 7-8 uses of each, and the gens still got done. That's how ridiculous this game is, and how ridiculous it is that people expect so much of the killer and so little of the survivors.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885776#Comment_3885776
I can't have strong killer things, as killers have
Higher winstreaks on every killer than survivors have escape streaks.Higher average kill rates
More bp per average match
At every level of play killers are advantaged, with the possible exception of the highest comp(lol) levels. Like sorry you can't beat Ayrun's swf, but I really don't care when the normal experience is weighted so stupidly to killers.
Those win streaks are flukes and anomalies and you know it. I wonder why I can count the amount of people who've achieved those streaks on 1 hand? Surely 95% of those matches weren't weak teams, who didn't take ANY advantage of their maps, perks, or individual pressure.
That especially doesn't make sense with the kill rate, the "ideal 60%." All that means is, for the power role, you're getting a draw a majority of the time, no matter what. That's not very strong to me.
Why does the BP gained even matter? We're talking about balance.
I don't care what big name's SWF it is, especially if they're bully smurfs, but they should be beatable, and they're just not most of the time. They're in communication, making 1 person's info everyone's info, they know how to run the loops to waste a guaranteed amount of killer time, and they know what gens to do and what side of the map to lead the killer to. Your average killer is going to be weaker in that, not necessarily in skill, but in power. Most killers have absolutely no power over survivors who know what they're doing. They're just going through the motions, and how well they play will not change the outcome of the match, because of all the advantages The survivors have. So the game's not weighted to them at all.
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@XtremeDBD said:
Yeah icl not a single change in this game health plan aims to improve the killer experience, besides spawn rules which will make gen rushing slightly less fast
This game just keeps getting more and more survivor sided with no buffs to killer at the same time
The crazy thing is the spawn rule is already in place! 9/10 times, my teammates and I spawn in the same place. Occasionally 1 will spawn on another corner of the map, like on Azarov's Resting Place or something. Maybe they're trying to make it a guarantee that all 4 spawn together?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
You are not really forced to go there, you can do Gens. If the Killer decides to camp someone on the ground for up to 4 minutes, you have time to complete the rest of the Gens. (Unless there is a 3-Gen and the person is right in that 3-Gen, but this is another problem which hopefully will get fixed at some point…)
The second part is very valid tho. The Surrender Option does not fix slugging at all and might just incentivize Killers to go for 4 man Slugs, since it is a Victory for them if all Survivors surrender. So it does not do anything against trolling or that slugging is just a bit too good currently.
So what do you suggest? The problem was the killers slugging not only to win, but to leave people on the ground to be toxic and waste their time. The surrender option fixes that, but now it's seen as counterproductive. So what do we do? Just not implement it?
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...Can you give killers a break? Every little detail and idiosyncrasy killers have is scrutinized, blown out of proportion, and made out to be a bad thing. Like you're doing here, thinking of the worst possible scenario these changes could lead to. Any killer can Lethal and wipe out any team at the start, as long as the team is that bad. Aura isn't free kills; just because the killer sees you doesn't mean he gets you. And is that rage quit justification, too? You're really not helping your cause.
We've done the "survivor buffs first" approach for years, and it isn't working. I mean it is, for survivors, but they're completely ungrateful. Literal free BT + Haste off hook, and they boil it down to "doing nothing." That kind of ingratitude. What we've basically seen is an attempt to make the uncarryable solos beat good killer players, through these changes and through forced mismatches, which doesn't do a thing except make the game more broken in the favor of survivors who know what they're doing, especially SWF/bully squads. It's killers who've been told, "Yeah, they're getting all this stuff, but we'll balance it out eventually." We're still waiting. Maybe with this "killer sided" set of changes, well see something, anything.
I told BHVR good job because they're actually doing something this time, they're actually trying. They've got a plan, a vision. But as part of it, you're getting MORE anti-slug, anti-tunnel, anti-camp, anti-"go next," etc. What's to complain about, just off of speculation? That's what you're mad about, nihilistic speculation, no meaty details, for a role that's had it all since the game launched. Like I alluded to, that doesn't mean an absence of problems. The matchmaking is super messed up and people DC all the time in solo. But that doesn't equate to killers being "OP."
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@Mr_K said:
Hate to say, but nobody forced you to play in a particular way. Even if you believed it was the only way you can.
Well then we play to lose, unless we get really lucky. That's our only other option.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885958#Comment_3885958
Basically the way i would do it is.
- Killer hooks a survivor
- Survivor is unhooked
- They get this buff that makes it so they can't be hurt by the killer in any way, but they can't do anything like totems or gens or anything. Probably make them even invisible to the killer, no collision, etc.
- After 32 seconds, that buff expires, and the survivor is fully healed and now able to interact with the game.
Basically, these doesn't lose total time for the survivors, because to heal a survivor who is just unhooked, both survivors have to interact for 16 seconds which is a total of 32 seconds . But now, you basically automate that healing interaction, kinda like the medkit addons for example. But during that time, you know the survivor can't be working a gen. So the survivor who unhooks, can just run back to a gen and not "waste" time healing.
So the total time spent off a gen is still the same, but its all put on that 1 survivor, and it is forced. This also prevents them from "tunneling gens" by just ignoring healing for example.
I'd also throw in reworking the AFC mechanic, to just teleport the survivor on the hook to the hook that is closest to the survivor that is furthest away from the killer. Similar to PH/2v8 cages. That way if it happens that survivor should almost always have enough time to unhook them before the killer can come after them again, thus rendering them invulnerable for that 32 seconds.
Wouldn't that just be a free escape at the end?
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Wouldn't that just be a free escape at the end?
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@MaddieMage said:
I’ve been saying that they cannot truly buff killers until they do away with tunneling and camping. No matter how many carrots or incentives they try to offer killers not to do those things, there still going to happen. There are far too many of their killer player base that don’t want an actual challenge in this game nor do they care about gaining skill, but rather they just want easy wins. As long as zero skill mechanics that don’t require perks or add-ons to be effective, like tunneling and camping remain in the game, nothing they offer is going to deter it but rather they’re just adding to their ability to tunnel and camp more by giving buffs on top of it.
If they’re going to penalize tunneling and camping and making it no longer effective for the killer to do, then they should also balance that by giving killers buffs. If they’re not gonna penalize tunneling it and make them far less effective then they may as well keep things where they are and give survivors more ways to avoid it.
You can't. You'll just be stacking more advantages for good survivors to abuse, while killers get punished. What more could they even do that's within reason? It'll be "Now, the anti-camp meter goes up within 32 meters, and doesn't slow down when other survivors are near." or "The survivor has 20 seconds of Endurance and 20% bonus speed when unhooked." These devs are incapable of giving killers buffs to counter stuff like that. Any time they've even wanted to, survivors said, "These killers are downing toooo fast," and so the decent chase powers get nerfed. Or, "Pallets are too weak and far between," and so more long side/god pallets get made, negating any remaining decent chase powers. Or, "This just speed is juuuust right," as they're literally flying, and making quick downs a necessity but also inadequate.
Killers used to be stronger before, and good players were fine. Peak Wraith, peak Pinhead, peak Nemesis, peak Skull Merchant (if that was ever a thing), peak Freddy (same thing), etc. But then they decided, "These killers aren't easy enough to beat. We need baby survivors to be able to beat them too." And so now they can, through gen speed, Terminator mode perks, and mismatches alone. There's no skill. That will continue, because for every minor killer buff, or rework, survivors expect 2 major buffs in exchange, and they get it every time. Look at Freddy. Clocks still grant immunity to sleep, now usable by anyone at any location, and his dream pallets (only 7 max for some reason) can be seen and destroyed by awake survivors, even worse than before.
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@Memesis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886341#Comment_3886341
Then don't que up
Exactly. They are so selfish. "I'm gonna queue up just to rage quit. And if you tell me that's bad, you're in the wrong!"
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@dbdiscool said:
That Friday was by far the superior game
Not when played at the highest level. In that context, killer is easy mode in this game in comparison. Every person with a pocket knife or a teammate nearby so you can't grab. Every person with combat blocks and sprays so you can't slash them down. Rushing the car and phone faster than survivors can even possibly do gens in this game. It was fun, but it was bad.
I was skeptical about this game at first, because I took came from Friday The 13th. I scoffed at the weapon wipe after every hit, and the rocket boost survivors get after being hit. But this game is the far superior one.
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@Ember_Hydra said:
IDK who thought this would be a good idea. But you either A. don't play the video game or B. don't play any games at all and never heard the word balance.
She is the most busted as thing in this. Like who thought this would be any good idea?!
Like it's nice we get more killers on a 2v8 since it's the only thing keeping the game alive in player base with these events. But add classes to the survivor side and don't make 2 killers stronger than they already need to be.
And no I don't mean to offend it's just an observation. Either way this needs a balance team at the very leastWhat can he do? He injures you, so that his teammate can have easier downs, but that's basically all he's doing. That's not even a 2v8, that's a 1.5v8. The only reason it's seeing success is because the average survivor just isn't good at this game, and won't do the gens or will heal repeatedly against Legion.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885256#Comment_3885256
Why do you people cling to the 1v4 opinion everytime, they are to be played like a support in 2v8, if you have a friend on comms its very easy to get huge value from their slowdown/information/and everyone being injured. it's getting tiresome seeing you all be so closed minded.
So we're just assuming all killer teams with Legion are in communications with each other? Shouldn't we assume that all survivor teams are 8-man comm teams then?
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/438839/beware-1v2-is-gonna-be-amazing
How about not finding yourself in such a situation? if you 2 left and cannot fix the generators, you have failed, and forcing the killer to run around the map for 20 minutes and look for you is not the most interesting thing
Exactly. Try to win, or you don't. People are not entitled to a free escape just because they're in a losing match. That has been so unhealthy for the game for years. The killer doesn't get a random mechanic that says, "Even though you lost this match, randomly get a free kill."
Hiding for 20 minutes stems from the free escape mechanic, but even if such a thing wasn't present, survivors could just do it anyway. Survivors can hide for a theoretically infinite amount of time right now, basically holding the game hostage, and sure you can report them for doing it, but they're still able to do it. Why not just show their auras after a certain amount of time of not doing anything? This solution has been held back by people basically saying, "The killer should never be able to find or see me." because they can't hold their own in chase, and think that they'll magically win by never touching generators.
People can call this a killer-favoring solution an abusable solution, an attack on casuals, killer power fantasy, etc. But we've dealt for years with unreasonable solutions to things that could have been fixed by skilled play. Survivors hiding forever, and the killer finding them, there's no skill in it. It's just chance that the killer finds them after a certain amount of time. So if there was ever a time for an "unreasonable" or "killer sided" solution, it's now, in this instance.
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No. He's good as he is right now. Not broken, not underpowered. I do wish people who call him OP on 2v8 would understand what you said, that he's M1 trash and can't do a lot to down you, while also being strong in terms of getting injures. The better the team, the easier he'll be beaten, just as it is for all killers.
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@Rogue11 said:
Weird how the top 3 killer perks are some of those useless slowdown perks. Surge, Grim, DMS, and Deadlock all in the top 15 too.
We're trying to get y'all to understand that just because people still cling to using these perks, as a pipe dream, because they're the "strongest" or "most reliable," that doesn't mean they're actually really strong. The bar has gone way, way down for killer stuff that's considered strong. And that's because there's a narrative about killer that if something is strong, then it must be OP and needs nerfing. We saw it with Wraith, Spirit, Clown's add-ons, Blight's add-ons, Twins, Dracula, gen defence perks, chase perks, info perks, etc. You're not allowed to have a decently strong killer thing. Only survivors can.
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@jesterkind said:
To answer the question about the anti-genrush, did you see the part of the roadmap where they talk about addressing survivor spawns so that they can't all spawn spread out anymore?
Even if we define genrushing as just survivors doing their objective efficiently (instead of the more reasonable and actually useful definition of bringing stacked toolboxes with supporting perks), that's gonna be a huge knock to the team's ability to get the ball rolling. With that change implemented, the average killer early game will go substantially more in their favour.
They already did that. 90% of the time, I spawn in the exact same corner as my other 3 teammates.
And I don't want to see survivors punished* for doing their objective efficiently, like we see in 2v8 with the forced slowdown. I just think in general gens need to be slower. Or if it's SWF who always do the gens like 2-5 minutes earlier than solos, they clearly need to be looked at, and debuffed.
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@StalkingYou said:
first of all, YES the anti-slug surrender option is fine and cool. not gonna talk about that.
the roadmap has another segment in phase two which talks about "anti tunneling and anti camping"
and I wonder, when will the devs get the message that killers are doing these things because the whole "play nice go for multiple people" idea has been probably the most bullshit thing in the history of this game?
killer literally does not have the ability to do that against any competent team because KEEPING THE GAME A 1V4 MAKES THE GENS FLY. has nothing to do with skill, despite what many community members will tell you.
also yeah, keep nerfing tunnel/camp because we haven't been doing that every update. survivors get new meta perks to use against it nearly every chapter along with basekit features to counter it, guess it is still not enough.
we've nerfed nearly every slowdown perk the killer has and the expectation is for them to play even NICER.its also only seen as a problem when the killers go for their objective quickly, not the survivors of course. where's my "anti-genrush"? oh wait "genrush" is fine because that's just the survivors doing their objective right, but when the killer does the same without bending their back over to make the match "fun" for everyone else then they're an evil toxic tunneler and deserve to be punished with EVEN MORE.
I see nothing on this roadmap hinting at buffs for play styles that are "healthy" such as spreading hooks around and going for multiple chases. If that's the way they want people to play the game then BUFF THOSE STRATEGIES, stop NERFING the other strats that people use because the first one is terrible.
killers try to play nice, every gen slowdown which allowed this to an extent is nerfed. killers tunnel/slug because the "playing nice" strategy sucks, we introduce 70 things which impede them from doing that. killers dont wanna even hook anymore because it enables like 20 different survivor meta perks? yeah, lets nerf that too. if you want us to behave in a certain way then maybe start giving the carrot instead of relentless beatings with the stick.I have to commend them for actually doing something, for actually having some kind of vision. But yeah, the implied changes to slugging, camping, tunneling which don't need to be nerfed any more than they are kind of hurts that image of progress. I am very excited to see what they do with MMR though.
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@Eleghost said:
The worst part is probably legion and rpd this time. If you get neither of those it's pretty fun as survivor.
Are you kidding? RPD has always been so overpowered for survivor. And Legion, I've described at length as being overhated/overblown in other posts about him.
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Because survivors wanted a way to "fight back" against the killer, like want in every game in this genre, so the kick cages were swapped for pick-up teleports to cages. That makes the killers have to play harder to win, including slugging and tunneling. That's because before, they could send someone on there way and continue the chases. Now they waste more time now matter what, and then there's the possibility of flashlight/pallet saves.
The comeback mechanic does more harm than good. I don't care if it helps both sides, because it punishes both sides, and people don't like being punished just for playing the game. And that's the problem with 1v4 killer. In 2v8, the killer gets punished for caging people by giving them bonus gen speed, directly encouraging them to tunnel. Survivors have their gens slowed down... for doing them... and speed them back up by getting caged, which encourages the killers to ignore any bots and instead go for the real players, the more credible threats.
With the exception of literal broken maps where people could go "out of bounds," and pallets which weren't even loops, original 2v8 pretty much nailed it first try. It was weird not having the gens doubled (something they definitely should have done if they put MMR in the mode), but it keeps killers on their toes.
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@KeefCheif said:
Okay Behavior. The 400% bloodpoint bribe still isn't enough for myself and other solo survivors to waste our time getting annihilated 9/10 games. The main issue is that most of the meta killers, killer perks, and killer play styles are completely uncompetitive against solo survivors.
I get that this game is meant to played 4 against 1, and that in a perfect world most games would involve coordination between the 4 survivors. But that's just not the reality, so please wake up Behavior.
Most people that play survivor in this game play solo survivor. And, as the 400% bloodpoint bribe and exacerbated killer queue times would suggest… it sucks, a lot.
Please introduce a solo survivor game mode with reduced perk selection for killers AND survivors. A game mode balanced towards solo survivors. Idk hat exactly that balancing looks like, but there's really no way it could get worse for solo survivors at this point.
Killers, solo survivors, and swf's will still be able enjoy the full range of perks and play styles in the normal game mode; except queue times might remain longer there as most solo survivors would likely migrate to the more balanced game mode.
In conclusion Behavior, make a more balanced game mode for solo survivors or die a slow death as all of your casual players slowly lose interest in an uncompetitive game that's actively pushing us away.You shouldn't be getting annihilated 9/10 times. Killers are so "strong" because they need to be able to somewhat compete against SWF. Until SWF gets a nerf, expect them to keep balancing this way. OR maybe they should fix the MMR so that you're being put with killers more your level.
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@MoZo said:
Is anyone else going against blight every other game? I swear I’ve been playing 1v4 survivor all day and I see blight damn near every other game. I see blight more than huntress, wesker and even the new reworked Freddy. Is it because my mmr is “high” or is everyone trying to master blight currently?
You must be high MMR. I've gone against Blight once in like the last month.
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@Phantom_ said:
Nope, it's Legion, Legion, Legion, Blight, with Legion, everyone and their grandma's are playing Legion.
In 1v4?
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The zombies seem good in this mode as long as they don't get stuck or ignore people, which I've seen both happen albeit rarely. But Nemesis' tentacle feels bad to use in general, and in this mode where you have to get so many injures and downs constantly, you need to be able to rely on it, but you just can't.
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@Smoe said:
Threads like these are why i cannot take what the community says serious half the time.
What do you mean?
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Okay. There's simply not liking a certain mode, and then there's taking pleasure in watching it burn. The most vocal seem to prefer the latter, and I don't understand why.
With the exception of bots, which are soon to be limited to 1 or done away with, everything changed about the mode has been due to popular suggestion or complaint. I don't see many complaints about the killer POV, so I'm assuming the problem is with survivor. But then, how so? Killers now have to manually pick up, leading to flashlight and pallet save potential. There's a comeback mechanic where the more survivors caged, the faster the gens go. There are classes with abilities that would be unbelievably powerful in the main mode, like instant 50% heals for all, pallet rebuilding, old Object, and team Sprint Bursts. There's pallets everywhere, the maps are huge, and there's less than 10 gens to do, even though most everything else was doubled. Teammates can be bad, but that's always the case in multiplayer games. So what could possibly be so much worse in this mode than in the regular game?
Y'all have short memories if you say you've always thought of the mode as a bad idea. People asked and waited YEARS for this mode. Almost unanimously, that's how popular an idea it was.
If you're upset with the devs for not fixing the game, simply expect and demand more of them. Don't take that anger out on these fun modes.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883930#Comment_3883930
MMeanwhile I hated the roster from the original. I'm so happy to have Legion over Wraith and Huntress. Things can only get better for me as there's less chance to get Wraith.
The complaints about Legion really show you the caliber of players we're dealing with. They can't handle being injured, the 1 thing that all killers do. It does not matter that he gets easy injures across the team and across the map, because it never has. Legion is not superior to Nurse and Blight. And there being a second killer doesn't change much. Good survivors stay injured in 1v4 against almost all killers, all the time, and they don't have pallets every 2 feet. The 8* survivors do.
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This is so dramatic. The TEMPORARY 2v8 update alone does not make this game the worst it's ever been. We've weathered far worse than this.
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@Mr_K said:
Tentacle needs to be twice as long and footsteps twice as heavy.
The tentacle is actually pathetic. It almost feels like they nerfed it for 2v8. It's like, "Ohp, 1 inch to the right, complete miss." Nobody wants to play Nemesis, or Deathslinger, because of that.
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@Hex_Ignored said:
Legion's power would have needed severe balance adjustments for 2v8. I hope they do something about mending simulator in the next iteration.
Not everything you don't like is a simulator.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
I haven’t had any personal issues playing against Legion. I usually just camp pallets and even if they get the hit, I still get the stun and knock them out of their power. It usually conditions them to ignore me the rest of the match. Sorry teammates!
It's that simple. People apparently say he's impossible to stun "if the player's good enough at Legion."
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@Sngfun said:
With medic class he is honestly pretty easy to counter, but without it he is insane.
Honestly haven't seen people struggle to heal against em so I think they're fine
Well then people should pick medic. That class and the one with Sprint Burst/Windows base, and maybe 1-2 Scouts for rebuilding pallets, are the only classes people should be playing if they want to win.
Without medic, just stay injured, because the time sink won't be worth it if you heal.
People "struggle" against Legion because they're used to getting a free second chance in the form of being healthy. They take that for granted, and then accuse any killer it's smarter to stay injured against of being OP. But if Legion is doing his job correctly in this mode, he's barely ever chasing you to down you, unless you stun him out of his power, which is equally in your favor. So you're just playing injured as 8 survivors against 1.5 of a killer when it's supposed to be 2v8. That's why I think the crying about him is unnecessary.
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@Philscooper said:
fly being 25 instead of 38 is definitely a huge buff everyone overlooked
Mhmm, so now he can do his slow, low-distance, choreographed map traversal ability slightly more often. Small comfort for the people who play him, and land right on top of a survivor with Fly, and they still make the window/pallet because he's so slow to act coming out of it. And then they nerf him in other areas.
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@RefinedZero said:
The 0.25s longer on cancel is one of the clunk things I hate and makes me want to stop playing, sounds like I am crying, I'm not its just something that feels artificial and pulls all of the fun out of it for me. I hope the devs could take this into consideration, Vecna has insane counterplay already.
Yeah they just put cooldowns on literally everything the killer does, and call it balance. What they're doing, in any event, is making the killer's job harder and the survivor's job easier, to where survivors don't even have to learn to counterplay. The game just does it for them. The Wraith nerf, Clown nerf, Freddy nerf, Deathslinger nerf, etc are all echoed again right here. "The killer's not allowed to be skillful and use strategy! Just brute force everything so the survivors can have fun!"
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This sucks. Whatever he supposedly gained here, he lost with the nerfs to Mage Hand and magic item disable time. He shouldn't be getting any nerfs, because he's already a garbage killer.
Currently with Mage Hand, any good survivor will just continue to hug the loop as usual, and get back to the pallet anyway. This happens because for some reason Vecna gets slowed down, or held back by the pallet, when he uses the ability. Even the Haste add-on for Mage Hand doesn't remedy this, and if the survivors have the anti-Hand boots, forget using it at all.
That's why it's so important that the Dispelling Sphere stay just as strong, because those magic items absolutely destroy this killer when in good survivors' hands. Even bad survivors, because your every move with those abilities is tracked or countered, without the survivors having to do anything. Sphere is meant to curtail the OPness of the magic items, and now it will barely break even.
I mean it. Play this killer against any experienced or capable team, or semi-gen efficient solos, and you'll have to fight for your life just to win. Everything he does is super choreographed and doesn't do enough, and then on top of that, he gets built-in counters in the form of magic items. Everyone agrees he's just a weaker version of Dracula. So with all this in mind, and just like I said with the Demogorgon changes a while back, why is he getting any nerfs AT ALL? He'd be stronger than Nurse/Blight without them, or what?
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@Pulsar said:
Too little too late, if you ask me.
None of this addresses WHY people don't want to play Survivor. Getting rid of bots, at least a bit, helps a tiny bit.
The issue is with bots. Survivor is fine. Just because people would rather play killer, because it's a rare chance at co-op, doesn't prove that there's something wrong with survivor.
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And people will still say that it's a fair amount of pallets. These maps are borderline harder than Eyrie or The Game to win on, you know, where you're breaking safe pallets left and right throughout the whole match, and they still have way more to run to.
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I don't like the excuse the devs gave, more than anything. Just because the heart thing is now there doesn't mean you should remove Spine Chill's ability to let you know the killer's looking at you. And they could honestly bring back the vault speed to combo with Resilience too, because that's 15% faster vaults I believe, and Finesse gives you 20%.
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It's true. Almost every time I lose, it was an obvious SWF. The problem is every time I get on, I face almost exclusively SWF. See the correlation? They don't play that well either. It's advantage over skill. I can just list off misplay after misplay they make as I play, giving me really good chases and gen pressure for free, and they still have multiple people get out all the time.
You'll see how the handholding majorly boosts bad players too, especially in 2v8. If you or your killer teammate is even slightly inefficient or makes a mistake, game's over. The players who couldn't play for nothing walk right out the exits, because you had 5-7 minutes to get 24 cages. And then the herbs give free heals and cage states.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
Honestly, I just cant be bothered as I don't care that much, at nearly 6k hours in this game since Jan 2019 I have lost all motivation to spend hours of my time arguing about this game.
You can take it or leave it but BHVR really cannot afford to do this, as I suspect that while I large number of the weekend casuals are SWF's, the majority of the dedicated players are solo survivors and if solo queue remains this miserable and killer sided, they will just leave.
Well then the killer players will be miserable and leave. They can't just do nothing. And nobody's looking at practical solutions, if you ask me. That's a big problem.
Like, why not fix the MMR? Players who think Wraith is unbeatable and BBQ is OP should not be in lobbies with killers who can down in 20 seconds max, even with all the ridiculous tiles and survivor handholding stuff. That is a mismatch. And yet, every other match looks like that, because the MMR is nowhere near as strict as it needs to be. I'd rather wait a minute or two for a match, and get consistent same-level teammates/opponents, than whatever the heck this is now, because that's how MMR worked and succeeded when it first came out.
SWF needs a nerf. They've never been nerfed in the history of this game, and you can't really argue that SWF doesn't provide a significant advantage. Even though players don't take advantage of it (just like the survivor-sidedness of the game), that doesn't mean it should freely be used as a vehicle to stomp the killer by experienced players, with no debuff or consequence whatsoever.
Or at least forget the casual perspective and balance the game off of good players, because when those casual players dedicate themselves and go to the next level in skill, they'll reap the benefits of a balanced game, figuring out the usefulness and potential of all these different things which they didn't quite grasp as a casual. That's the ideal learning experience that so many other games provide their players, but this one doesn't because its mentality has always been "Casuals over all else. That's what I call balance."
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884226#Comment_3884226
Survivors also had actual opportunities for skill expression instead of pallets that the killer walks around the short side of once to get a hit every time. Having or not having 2 perks is now more effective anti-tunnel than map knowledge and mechanical skill, because average chase time is 20 seconds due to empty maps and certain killers have little to no counterplay.
Maps simply aren't as empty as you say. Even on the accursed Coldwind maps, there's loads of them, in addition to the map size. And maybe the killer's chase time has gone down because the average killer has gotten better. They've improved to meet the ridiculous standard that's been set, that 20-30 second chases is still game-losing unless you also get max value from perks, barely break any pallets or kick any gens, AND face inefficient opponents WITH bad map RNG.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884111#Comment_3884111
Why would we be trying to push Kill Rates up further?
So far as we know, they are already high enough.
Making Survivors have even less time to do anything but gens will only increase how fast gens go.
Cats out of the bag, so to speak. Both sides are playing as competitively as they can. That's on BHVR. The removal of all the BS both sides could do also means there's very little swing in matches. Once one side starts winning, they usually just stomp. Almost no chance to comeback and right now, that favors Killers.
Either way, BHVR either need to commit to MMR and make the game competitive or back it off.
You can't rely on the kill rate. I could draw 80% of my matches, get a couple wins, and that be an "ideal" 60% kill rate. Nobody likes playing killer to draw or less. They want to win and feel like a threat. So for y'all to say a 60% kill rate, which is mostly draws every match, is "way overperforming" or is a "great performance" is just silly.
I do agree they need to fix MMR. Issue #1, in my book. You can't even begin to balance things if you can't gage what players are good, and what they win or lose against, or what they think is strong or weak. And going back to random matchmaking isn't an option, because then you get random balancing, which we complained about for years. If they would just return MMR to what it was when it first released, that would be leagues better than doing what they're doing now, which is nothing.
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@Foxtrick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884104#Comment_3884104
I'm Sorry but how often do you play survivor?
If you played survivor more consistently, your opinion would be different
No it wouldn't. Survivor's problem is that solo queue teammates are terrible. If the matchmaking was better or the players were better, it would be complete domination by survivors in 100% of matches.
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@fixblitzskin said:
Nemesis entire kit revolves very tightly on a 1v4. Doesn’t translate to 2v8 where pallets are rebuilt, there are more than 4 supply cases, same zombies double the area to cover, and no traversal power. He is pretty bad in this mode
The killers with cures for their powers always have far too many of them. You can just continually get value off hitting survivors with your power, but it doesn't even matter because they never run out of cures.
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Yeah, that's terrible.
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@LordGlint said:
That last part is your problem. "Seems like all my teammates refuse to do the one and only win condition…". If that is true, it makes sense why they would lose. You can't gut the win condition requirement so it is feasible for 1 person to do it alone.
That's what people refuse to see. It takes the least amount of thinking to conclude that the killer is always the issue. What about your teammates? Wouldn't their not doing gens have more to do with your loss than anything the killer is doing? You shouldn't be able to 1v1 the killer, on gens and in chase. If your teammates are bad, too bad, you lose. That's why the emphasis should be on improving MMR, so that you go against opponents, and get teammates, of your own skill level. And I think balance efforts have unfortunately gone to that end: to make survivors be able to come back and win even against (what should be) impossible odds and bad/non-existent team play.