cogsturning
cogsturning
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989090#Comment_3989090
The only thing that makes me doubt this is that it kind of removes the possibility of new cosmetics. They could get creative of course but options would be limited. It would feel like an unusual decision from a business perspective. I dunno.
The karasue has a body and exists as a normal person in the day time. It hides the body away and sperates from it at night to go feeding. It's sort of vampire-like. The body is it's weakness. I'd assume a killer like this would be whole and detaching the head would be the power. As I said above, it could be like Victor, and maybe if a survivor finds the body they can cancel the power or something.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
You don't want to nerf survivor any further it's miserable to play, I understand killer is stressful but it's still way better than solo Q, I see streamers/ytubers with winstreaks in the 100-500 it's pretty common, meanwhile people struggle to escape 10 solo q games in a row
I dont see any stats indicating survivor is stronger, queue times are worse for killers too
People have survived 10 soloqs in a row???
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989325#Comment_3989325
They always have. This isn't really something new.
But a disembodied floating head is just goofy looking lol
They could make it work. I imagine it'd be similar to Victor and have a small and stealthy element.
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@Shroompy said:
I would say a little and the sole reason for that is Conviction. I have no idea how this perk is not being talked about more and how it even stayed the same from PTB
I think I've seen maybe three or four people use Convciton, and one was a friend trying it out. It's not exactly shifting the meta.
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Can't say I've noticed a change. I consistently find that the things that determine my killer matches are 1) who I'm up against 2) what map I'm on and 3) which killer I'm playing (also in relation to what map I'm on). There's been nothing like a universal shift for me in gameplay, and my matches are varied in the extreme, with some being 4k stomps at 5gens and some being 0k embarrassments with 3 hookings.
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I don't know about the everyone having fun part. I have fun as killer, yeah, but there's a reason survivor has a 5x bonus. I don't think too many people would play the role if there was no bonus. I sure wouldn't. Getting double tapped by two killers who can see my aura isn't my favorite.
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
Someone mentioned it might be a Krasue due to the fact that they said it was supposed to be very gory
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/K9NEQ8ZCL5W1/minasako-himiju-by-broken-orange-d4s0lnv.jpg
Floating head + intestines that flies around eating peoples insides.
But who knows if thats what itl be lol
This creature was my first guess. It's been in a number of films, and in an episode of Shudder's Creepshow, as below.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989027#Comment_3989027
We had an Ada in our last 2v8 killer match the other day. I saw her doing a green glyph, gave her a nod, and let her be
Respect the glyphs.
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@TheGoone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988945#Comment_3988945
How is Chucky the most hated? He's a shell of his former self
He's in my top 3 for most hated but not for the killer himself (the abilities are fine and he's hilarious), but for the players. Absolute dicks gravitate towards him. They seem to think they need to actually be him to play him. I've never met a chill, merciful, or friendly Chucky.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989027#Comment_3989027
tfw you finally find your red/green glyph and the Killer downs you while you work on it
So infuriating. You see I'm doing the glyph. Just let me do it. You'd think its about to give me Sprint Burst or something.
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No. It's fun to massacre as killer, but with two killers that can tag team, it's wildly unfair to survivors. I even feel unfair myself while I'm doing the tag-teaming. If it wasn't for the survivor BP boost and the Quests I think a good deal of people wouldn't bother, myself included. Even with it's limited time availability, killers start to figure out how to tunnel. There's also been slugging in my survivor matches.
So it's mostly chaos, skill expression is lacking, and, given enough time, it will have the same dirty tactics as 1v4 as more killers figure out cage spawn locations.
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I've seen two or three of these recently. I also love seeing someone intect with a glyph. I will stand there and appreciate.
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I totally don't get the appeal. It's all chaos and pretty much no strategy or teamwork. The perk list is bloated, sure, but at least that gives you different flavors to matches. This is just constant aura reading and selfish survivors.
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@Meg_Survivor said:
I agree! 2v8 is just more fun and it surrounds you with alot of different people and you meet more friends i can honestly say most of the time you get more gens done vs 1v4 where 1 person is running around doing nothing, another person is hooked, one opening chests or hiding ect vs multiple people that can do things all at once if that makes sense? its so dull and boring going back to 1v4 with the same tunneling, camping and slugging killers - I hope for it to be permanent one day, i would never go back to 1v4 if that happened. its just something about having so many people on the map at once, im a lara main and i can honestly say i enjoy playing killer waaaaay more now when i have a buddy teamed up with me.
I got tunneled AND slugged by a Spirit today. She specifically went to where the uncagings were happening and I was being healed, and then chose to pursue me, twice, out of the three or four people there. Had a score of 8k, which wasn't even worth the multiplier. Give them time and the dirty killers will figure out how to ruin 2v8 too.
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@BbQz said:
Honestly feel kinda forced into the game mode with the 5x BP. The blood web is so cluttered I barely can keep up with items and add one so between not being able to bring items and the increase BP to gain more I've been stocking up. But the game mode is rarely fun if it I'm being honest. There are matches that just feel straight awful when you stuck from first hook all the way to death because you are being camped or 7 other people think someone else is going to run to the other side of the map for you. And like the time I've spent healing and mending the last 30 games combined would surely make people sick because EVERY game has a legion and every other killer gets huge value from you being injured
Yeah I feel the same way. I'm just playing it for the Quests and the BP, since I need to spend 2mil on my p100 just to get one, single unit of the add-on I'm searching for. I don't really enjoy having extra selfish teammates and getting slaughtered.
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This is how every soloq survivor experience feels. Don't overhink it. If they're mad or disappointed then they're taking the game (and this goofy mode) too serious.
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I feel I usually do okay with Knight unless they're super, duper good. As Hyena said above, it can be a long run. Pay attention to when the guards are hounding someone, and if he's following them too. Those are your windows. Spread your gens smartly, and work on more than one for the last three. An if you have even the tiniest suscpiocn he's using his power try to leave the area.
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Bless the chill killers
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988429#Comment_3988429
I wanna say this was even a problem dating back to when prestige maxed out at 3. There's no way that item scarcity becomes an issue the higher you go on accident.
It truly feels like they punish you for liking a character.
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You can pry my juiced-up commodious toolbox from my cold dead hands. I can just get someone else to heal me. But a toolbox with Built to Last and Deja Vu is a beast. Was even better before they ruined Streetwise.
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@PigWithTvs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988503#Comment_3988503
there were even higher last 2 v 8 and it was about the same
Indeed. They continue to line up for this oh so punishing experience where certain survivors can run fast for two seconds yet almost every match I've played as either role has been a massacre.
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There's a 30 minute wait to be killer.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988089#Comment_3988089
Most toxic killers are just frustrated from previous matches against toxic teams so they beat their anger and frustration on others and think they will behave to them like previous teams. I had some sabbo or flashlight annoying squads which were normal and friendly in chatt and then worst are sore loosers swfs they are worst toxic creatures in this game.
This take is incredibly biased. Killers BM because survivors BM, but survivors BM just because? I don't run sabo or use flashlights or do anything really aggravating yet I get humped by killers and repeatedly hit on hook for no reason. Yet I still don't treat pepple that way, even when they're doing it to me. I behave like an adult regardless of which role I play. People are crappy because they choose to be. Full stop.
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Takes 90 seconds to do a gen. They ain't getting 3 gens done in 30 seconds. Even 4 survivors on one gen can't do it in 30 without toolboxes or perks. And if they did have those things, one gen doesn't cook a match.
I had a match yesterday. Killer found me at the 47 second mark. Chased me. 3 gens popped at the 2:12 mark. Killer kept chasing me for 20 more seconds before DCing. So yeah, more than 90 seconds for the gens to finish, and about 90 of it in chase. Your chases are longer than you think.
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Yeah it's a mess. My p100, in particular, is just a BP drain. I have to go up like 10-20 levels just to get the one single wire spool I'm thirsting for.
Meanwhile, my killer bloodwebs are fine.
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Are you sure about that?
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@catawumpus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987735#Comment_3987735
Hey, appreciate the detailed reply — let me address a couple things:
- On comparisons to other killers: Billy can miss, Legion loses power on a miss, Wesker can fling himself out of chase — true. But the same applies to Clown: if you misplace your bottles or reload at the wrong time, you lose pressure. His kit isn’t “no downside,” it’s just finally not clunky anymore.
- On Blight/Nurse counterplay: Dodging Blight “like a bull” or juking Nurse with erratic movement works against inexperienced players — but once those killers are practiced, their tools are guaranteed gap closers. Clown’s haste has a delay, a duration, and is tied to limited bottles. It’s not the same level of inevitability.
- On “average players can’t counter Clown”: Balance can’t only look at perkless soloq experiences. If it did, every killer would feel oppressive. Survivors do have tools: pre-dropping pallets, baiting throws, breaking line of sight, forcing reloads. Exhaustion perks are just one piece, not the whole argument.
- On “mass misery” consensus: Forum threads often amplify frustration, but that doesn’t mean everyone hates the changes. Plenty of killers — and even survivors — have said this is the first time Clown has felt worth playing. It’s not universal misery, it’s just louder here.
Bottom line: Clown isn’t Nurse or Blight. Survivors can still counterplay him, but now he can actually contest space and feel viable instead of being one of the least-picked killers in the game. That’s a healthier outcome than reverting him back to bottom tier.
I'm not going to keep going in circles but one word you used is important: inexperienced. No one is a pro with Blight or Nurse immediately. It takes practice and skill. But any inexperienced player can currently hop on Clown for the first time and smash players of a higher caliber. That's the difference--low skill, high reward. Pre-dropping pallets is only going to do so much when he's running haste perks and moving at 140%+ speed and can easily catch up to anywhere you go.
I don't want a revert. I want him further adjusted.
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It's wild to imply that only one role acts toxic in this game.
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@tjt85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988034#Comment_3988034
Is that how the perk currently works when you bring back a party pallet? As soon as I learned the activation requirements for it I kinda lost all interest in the perk, tbh.
I'm honestly not sure but that would be more fair if it was a one and done kind of deal. I often think the extreme things that we sometimes see in some content creator videos are incredibly rare to encounter in typical trials but that's obviously just my subjective experience. They still need to be considered though.
I don't know because I don't have the perk (I'm also not interested in it) but, if I recall, the masquerade party pallets were a single rebuild and I believe the 2v8s are as well. I would hope they thought of those worse case scenarios.
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@tjt85 said:
Imagine a SWF that plays this game 12 hours a day with the ability to rebuild the Killer shack pallet 4 times a trial and you'll understand why we can't have nice things.
But yeah, I do think the requirement should be just the 1 chest / rummage per party pallet activation. It's not worth the perk slot right now.
I'd assume the pallet would only be able to be rebuilt once and then it's gone. It would work like Pentimento in that way.
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It's the other way around: Apocalyptic Ingenuity is a crappy version of a Scout ability that already existed in a previous 2v8. I figured we'd see some watered-down version of it as a perk eventually. It being a fragile pallet made it a hard pass for me but even without that, the chest-rummaging aspect is annoying. It would take a different activation requirement AND a real pallet for me to waste a slot on it.
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I used to use Visionary a lot and wish they'd make it so you can see all the gens. It should be a perk that let's you be smart about what gens you do. But limited gen auras AND a cooldown is just silly. Like please give me a reason not to use Deja Vu, I'm begging you.
Small Game is another I used to use a lot, for hex hunting. I'd go back to it if it would show the aura of the totem too, if you're a few meters away. As is, it's application is so limited.
Boil Over is possibly the most annoying perk for me as killer.
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I think there are less Scouts this time around because it doesn't benefit you as much as it does the team, and 2v8 is even more selfish than 1v4. If the team was on comms, a Scout or two could ideally post at high positions and keep eyes on killers (depending on the map) while also prioritizing important pallets. But that won't be the norm in the chaos that is soloq 2v8.
I had the great satisfaction of having a killer charge at me while I was doing the rebuild only for me to finish it just in time to whack them with it. Worth picking the class just for that.
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@catawumpus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987717#Comment_3987717
Hey, I hear you — I get that Clown feels oppressive if you’re used to facing the old, clunkier version. But a couple of clarifications:
- On “smooth and fast”: Clown’s speed is conditional. Yellow bottles only last a few seconds, they take setup, and they cost you reloads. If you spam them without managing reloads or placement, you lose momentum. It’s not the same as having guaranteed dashes or teleports like Blight or Nurse.
- On pink bottles: Survivors saying “nobody uses them anymore” is actually a sign the buff worked — players are finally experimenting with both options. Pink is still valuable for anti-loop and mindgames, but yellow is what makes him actually able to contest space. That doesn’t make him broken, it makes him worth playing.
- On survivor tools: Exhaustion perks are just one counter. Pre-dropping pallets, faking vaults, breaking line of sight, and wasting his bottles are all valid plays. Even without flashlights or 4-man coordination, survivors still have options to punish bad throws and long reloads.
- On solo queue: I know soloq feels rough sometimes — but balance can’t be based on whether someone brings Plot Twist or Scene Partner. If killers were tuned around perkless casual builds, Nurse/Blight would shred every match instantly. Mid-tier killers need to be balanced for the whole game environment, not just one loadout.
At the end of the day, Clown is finally playable without being top tier. Survivors who adapt to his timing and manage space will still outlast him, but now he can actually pressure instead of being a meme pick. That’s a healthier spot for everyone.
Nurse and Blight are two of forty killers. Compare him to other killers. How about Billy, who's hard to steer and easy to miss hits with. Or Legion, who loses his speed-heavy ability if he misses a hit. Or Wesker, who completely flings himself out of chase if he fumbles a grab with his dash.
Or take teleporters like The Unknown, who is much more balanced with spread out teleport locations that can be removed by survivors. Or Dredge, whose locker can be locked. Or Sadako, whose TVs you can turn off. The worst that happens to Clown is he has to reload, and that takes minimal time.
Balance can't be based on average players (40% escape rate) playing in the average way (soloq) with average-quality, non-meta perks? You said killers need to be balanced around the whole game environment and not just one loadout, but you're using exhaustion perks as an example of counterplay.
Blight's dashes aren't guarantees of anything, except that he'll briefly move forward at least once. You can dodge him like a charging bull. He can also miss his bounces. You can avoid Nurse with erratic movements. With an accelerated Clown running haste perks you're just screwed. There's nothing you can do if you're beteen tiles. He just needs one available bottle to flatten you.
Saying Nurse and Blight would shred every match is kinda inaccurate. I win against both those killers regularly and, as I said, I'm average. If they're 5k hour Blights/Nurses, sure I'm dead, but that's because they're good. I'm getting killed by p1 Clowns who are picking him up for the first time. That's not balanced.
I'm not sure how you can use the term "healthy" when the consensus towards him has been mass misery. Even Clown mains have expressed discontent.
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He needed a rework, yes, but this rework just ain't it. Nurse and Blight both take finesse to control. I can't even hit a bot that's standing still with Nurse. Clown moves smooth AND fast. There has to be a cut somewhere. If he's going to be that fast for that long, he at least needs to be harder to control. The bottles are too plentiful and the reload is fast. Currently, anyone can hop on Clown and steamroll better players. I know because I gave it a whirl when the changes first dropped. If I used only the yellow bottles, I was unstoppable, and I wasn't even using haste perks. If I used both bottles, I could still lose. Problem is, almost every new Clown has abandoned the pinks. I rarely see them used. And it sucks cause I used to like both playing as him and against him, and now I hear that first bottle smash and I'm instantly miserable. And he's just too embarrassing for me to play as right now.
And survivors can counter with exhaustion perks (the very perks killers endlessly whine about) is not the best argument. I don't run exhaustion perks. I'm not a looping pro. I dont bring flashlights. Soloq isn't coordinateed. That's cool that 4-man sweats can beat him but what am I supposed to do with my Plot Twist and Scene Partner? Die. The answer is die.
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@SadLegion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987502#Comment_3987502
The queues became 38 minutes only after Play while you wait feature was introduced. In previous 2v8's they were up to 20 minutes. So effectively what Play while you wait did is heavily worsened queue times. How is that a good thing? Play while you wait IS the reason why queue times became so long.
The only people who benefit from this dont care what role they play. So they could've sticked playing survivor just as well. But the people who wanted to play killer now need to wait twice as long.
Trading such a massive wait time increase for ability to play something you dont want to is not a healthy thing.
People that "don't care" what role they play? Does that mean people who play both? So like, most people? I'd say what's not healthy is a system that caters to people who only play half a game. This new one caters to people who play the whole game. Pandering to the small percentage of killer-only players is illogical when 80% of any match is survivors.
I skipped 2v8 entirely last time because survivor was a miserable massacre and killer waits were too long. Now I'm suffering through the massacre for points and I'm able to play killer again. If anything, I've returned to a mode that I'd considered dead to me thanks to the new system. I don't think its perfect, and I'd like more incentives to play survivor (more points, cosmetics, charms, etc) but it's a step in a good direction.
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@VibranToucan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987437#Comment_3987437
- Syringes are also low skill high reward. All it does is require you to press a button and you get a health state. Unless you do it mid chase the killer doesn't have enough time to catch up and even if you are bad at looping a basic few runs around shack or something should give you enough time to get the health state. Also, you absolutely need map pressure to tunnel lol. If you just throw someone on the hook and wait just outside the camp range to go for them again, the other Survivors can just easily push through gens. Tunneling is a pretty risky strategy because if done wrong you constantly have 3 people work at gens uncontested.
- Okay, but killers tunnel because they find losing boring. And if you just nerf tunneling all it does it create less fun games for killers.
- You could say that about anything. If we nerfs Invocations or No Mither we could buff broken, but that doesn't mean Invocations should be nerfed. If there are to be buffs for nerfing tunneling, they should come along with the tunnel nerfs, not be alluded too.
Well, when you resort to tunneling you usually don't have to worry about four syringes, just the one from the person you are tunneling. As for flashlights you might have to waste a couple of seconds checking your surroundings, maybe getting a hit by finding a survivor waiting for a flashlight save (which by the way, stopped them from repairing a generator, hence slowing the game down). The impact simply cannot be compared, no matter how overpowered you make syringes or flashlights sound.
I mean unless you hit of the hook, which you usually only can when you give up all gen pressure and are likely going to lose anyway or if the Survivors missplay, and even then gives the unhooked Survivor a huge distance boost, the unhooker can also pop a syringe on who they just unhooked. And once you tunneled someone out the game isn't over. Doing 1.5 gens with three people is entirely feasible. Also, when I brought up Flashlights it was about your point that tunneling shifts how you approach how you have to approach a match, not the impact on the results of the match.
You really can't. If you compare strategies with each other, tunneling is the easiest and cheapest one to do.
Not really. Tunneling effeciently needs you to be able to split pressure on a whim, while also pressuring objectives. Easiest is just hooking anyone you see, maybe keep hookstages in mind if you see two people at the same time. And what do you even mean by "cheapest"?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987432#Comment_3987432
So because other things make you feel like crap that's a reason to perpetuate things that make other people feel like crap?
No, it means exactly what I said it means in my previous comment. You can't appease everyone. If we tried to do that we'd be playing a completely different game. I hate Oni. But that doesn't mean I think Oni should get nerfed to Skull Merchant levels. "I don't like X" is not a good reason to want it removed from the game, especially without compensation.
And yeah, I do think high-skill 4-mans on comms with coordinated perks and items are unfair to the game's structure. If you come up against that and if the survivors are being trolls with body blocks and endless saves then I think dirty tactics are valid, cause those are dirty tactics too. The power balance is totally thrown off in those cases. But that's not the norm, and approaching hapless soloqers or goofy, playful partys with that same viscious approach is crappy.
Weird how that only comes up now. So what nerf to SWF do you propose come to the game along with the nerf to tunneling?
It came up now because you brought it up, even though we were talking about items and not SWF. But comparing SWF to tunneling is wildly unfair. The amount of pro, super-coordinated 4-mans is much lower than instances of tunneling. As killer, I rarely see them. Most people in parties are not some psycho meta squad. I've played with many people and I've never had much of an advantage because of it. Often, it's the opposite, because the reckless altruism gets us all killed. Playing together doesn't make you magically good at the game.
But as survivor, there's tunneling in about every 5th match I play. Everyone across the MMR spectrum has to deal with tunneling. Pro 4-mans, not so much.
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Yeah I love when I neither get the hit nor vault the window and just sort of embarrassingly bounce off.
But 2v8 has been fun with him. I can just charge a group at a gen and chances are I'll get someone. I wish the three-dash was standard. It would help make up for how punishing the misses are, and how wonky the window dashes have been.
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@VibranToucan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987403#Comment_3987403
The game gives you items in the bloodweb and in chests. It says, "Here, use this." Show me where the game says to tunnel. Is it in the tutorial? The tips on the loading screen? I must have missed it.
Are you saying that something isn't intended because the game doesn't explicitly advertise it? By that logic using voice calls in SFW is also on the same level, I never saw the game tell me "Use discord to chat with your friends while you play with them."
Tunneling makes people feel like crap, especially early-game, immediate tunneling. It's rare that I come across a 4-man that leaves me feeling helpless as killer. But as survivor, that feeling is ordinary. There's no way for me (in soloq) to torment killers the way they torment me when they shove me out of a match. I've never had a streak of killer games that made me feel terrible. But I've had whole weeks of survivor that have.
I mean there are plenty of things that make me feel like crap when playing Survivor or Killer, but that doesn't mean the other side is a bad person for it or that it should be nerfed to the ground.
It comes down to what you care about: winning or fun. I'm not interested in winning so I can inflate some stats nobody cares about anyway, and at the expense of making everyone else miserable. I want to have a fun match, and that involves having my opponents be able to perform as well. I'm not trying to immediately cripple them. I want the game to feel even and fair regardless of what role I'm playing. I want it to be close. I want everyone's scores to be decent. If I'm the killer in a match that's rapidly snowballing two minutes in and I see hope is disappearing for the other side then I'll often pull back and let them heal and reorientate themselves. Because I'm trying to play a match, not just win and leave. What's even the point of that?
Most people find winning fun. I am sorry, but yeah if Survivors swarm the slug for a pallet save against my Bubba and hand me a 4 man slug, I am not going to say no. Like if people didn't think winning was fun, then we wouldn't have this problem in the first place. Cause people play games to have fun.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987412#Comment_3987412
Yes, and like you just separated them yourself we were talking about gameplay tactics, not items. Tunneling and Items are nowhere near the same ballpark of impact they have on the match, which is another reason why they shouldn't be compared. A rogue syringe or killer add-on might have a viable impact of the outcome of the match, tunneling almost definitely always has an impact on the match. Forcing a 1v3 is probably one of if not the biggest impact you can have on a match, pretty much deciding the match right there if atleast like 2 generators are still remaining at that time in most games. It literally shifts how survivors have to approach the entire match.
Four syringes have a huge impact on a game, I would say easily higher impact than tunneling. Even if tunneling was objectively more impactful, why do you get to decide that the line of "impactful enough to be worth removing", is drawn at exactly that spot? Also, items definitely shift how killers have to approach the match. If a Survivor has a medkit, hitting them and then dropping chase is less impactful. If Survivors have flashlights, you need to be much more worry about your surroundings. You are just finding any difference and then for no real reason saying "this is the line that matters most"
"I said tunneling is a low-skill strategy to be used and abused for cheap wins."
Again, you could say the same about anything.
So because other things make you feel like crap that's a reason to perpetuate things that make other people feel like crap?
And yeah, I do think high-skill 4-mans on comms with coordinated perks and items are unfair to the game's structure. If you come up against that and if the survivors are being trolls with body blocks and endless saves then I think dirty tactics are valid, cause those are dirty tactics too. The power balance is totally thrown off in those cases. But that's not the norm, and approaching hapless soloqers or goofy, playful partys with that same viscious approach is crappy.
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@VibranToucan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987315#Comment_3987315
Tunneling is a playstyle, items are not. At best, you could compare survivor items with killer add-ons, in which case I could ask you the exact same thing as you did with items.
Why can't I compare playstyles to items? They are both things you can relatively easily try to use for an advantage. The same arguments can apply. You are just using a seemingly arbetrary line to draw a distinction.
Also, items and add-ons don't change the core gameplay loop in a way that streamlines and deprecates gameplay as much as tunneling does.
They absolutely do. Tunneling is the same gameplay loop. Get chased, get downed, get hooked, meanwhile the other Survivors do gens. Items meanwhile. Syringe and Styptic essentially give Survivors a free health state for free, Flashlights and Flashbangs add a whole new element in the form of saves even without pallets, Fog Vials add on demand LOS obstruction. Items definitely affect the gameplay loop more than tunneling.
"Killers losing games isn't particularly fun either." Again, same thing could be said for survivors. Besides, just because you don't tunnel, doesn't mean that you will lose, far from it infact, statistically. The game still has a 60% Killrate after all, and even higher for alot of Killer Mains, but that is not the topic of this thread anyways.
Yeah that was my point. Losing isn't fun for either side. So we shouldn't just suddenly put in huge balance changes against slugging/tunneling unless we know how to counter ramifications. Killers have a 60% killrate overall, tunneling included. Also, I am kind of confused on this point. Yeah, I won't lose every game without tunneling, so? Like am I supposed to be like "Damn, this game is wineable but I am already over the average winrate so I should just give up?" Like no, people generally play to win, regardless of how much they are supposed to.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987370#Comment_3987370
Tunneling is a choice and a tactic. Items are part of the game's design. They're not comparable.
Tactics and hook stages are also part of the games design? Like there is no law that would stop the devs from putting in something like "Oh, once you get 12 hooks all Survivors die and never before that." Tunneling is not an exploit. Items and tactics are both parts of the games design.
I win some games, lose others. I never tunnel, and actively avoid recently uhooked survivors. I'm playing the game as I believe it was intended to be played, and I have the exact 60% kill rate the game shoots for.
My killrate on Skull Merchant is 77% and my Killrate on Dracula is 52%. That doesn't mean Skull Merchant is S Tier or that Dracula is mid. Self reported data from a few individuals doesn't say much about the general balance of a game of millionsm, especially if we have better data.
Last time it was reported the escape rate data was at roughly 40% overall and easily over 40% at high MMR (https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/1k58ik7/stats_january_march_2025/) this data of course includes people who tunnel.
The game gives you items in the bloodweb and in chests. It says, "Here, use this." Show me where the game says to tunnel. Is it in the tutorial? The tips on the loading screen? I must have missed it.
Tunneling makes people feel like crap, especially early-game, immediate tunneling. It's rare that I come across a 4-man that leaves me feeling helpless as killer. But as survivor, that feeling is ordinary. There's no way for me (in soloq) to torment killers the way they torment me when they shove me out of a match. I've never had a streak of killer games that made me feel terrible. But I've had whole weeks of survivor that have.
It comes down to what you care about: winning or fun. I'm not interested in winning so I can inflate some stats nobody cares about anyway, and at the expense of making everyone else miserable. I want to have a fun match, and that involves having my opponents be able to perform as well. I'm not trying to immediately cripple them. I want the game to feel even and fair regardless of what role I'm playing. I want it to be close. I want everyone's scores to be decent. If I'm the killer in a match that's rapidly snowballing two minutes in and I see hope is disappearing for the other side then I'll often pull back and let them heal and reorientate themselves. Because I'm trying to play a match, not just win and leave. What's even the point of that?
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Yeah this is true for me. I skipped killer last time because of the wait. Now I'm playing 1 killer match for every 2 to 3 survivor matches.
Waiting for killer #2 to show up has also been fun.
It's a good idea but might need some ironing out.
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The above response was to @vibrantoucan
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Tunneling is a choice and a tactic. Items are part of the game's design. They're not comparable.
I win some games, lose others. I never tunnel, and actively avoid recently uhooked survivors. I'm playing the game as I believe it was intended to be played, and I have the exact 60% kill rate the game shoots for.
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@DaSonic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987262#Comment_3987262
Oh sorry, I didn't know I was talking to John Daylight himself.
Have you ever considered that the fact that you might have a kill rate of 85%, which in and of itself simply shouldn't be possible, because you have 10k hours and are also resorting to tunneling given your responses? I was talking about the average Killer, that simply didn't play enough to develop all the necessary skills to thrive as a killer player (hence, why their MMR can still rise, since you should be at very high MMR with that amount of hours, probably close to the hardcap), and instead now hinders himself by tunneling every chance he gets, not about the 10k hour person that at that point probably developed sufficient macro-play (intentionally or not) along any other "tactics" they might employ, to even win games against objectively excellent survivors. I'm sure with your amount of hours you would still get well above the intended 60% killrate without tunneling, but maybe not 85% though, and that's what's stopping you.
It's kind of mindblowing that you don't see an issue in these stats.Brother, you are wasting your time. Just walk away from this one.
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@Zuiphrode said:
Why should you get a 100% safe unhook? Killers should absolutely be able to punish for unhook attempts when they're still in the area.
There's nothing in this idea that would protect the rescuer. Why should the person being unhooked be punished for someone else making a bad play? If someone gets unhooked while I'm still around, I go for the savior, not the one unhooked. It's not their fault.
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@FearlessHunter said:
The worst moment I've had on 2v8 was when both killers were proxy camping a feng in a cage and for whatever reason the cage would just not move so she went into second stage
I managed to sneak past them while a few other survivors were distracting them and JUST as I was about to pull the feng out of the cage, the game decided it was finally time to move her into a new location where there were no players and she ended up dying.
I felt so bad for her
At least you made the effort. I had a Nea the other day who was the best looper in the match. I finally nabbed her, and I ended up passing by her cage. Next time I saw her she was still there, second stage. I stood there a moment hoping it would move but it didn't budge, and her team let her die so they could play for hatches. I felt bad about it. At least in 1v4 I can facecamp until someone with bad teammates can unhook themself. There was nothing I could do in this one.
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I'm also a big horror fan, and also started as killer. I liked that there was a non-RE game where I could play as Wesker. He's still my main, hours-wise, but I like to bounce around. Dracula is another favorite. I also play as Doctor, and yeah, he is devastating. With certain perk builds he is a total nuisance to deal with.
It took awhile but I eventually started playing survivor and I find that role more light-hearted and funny. I go back and force between the two roles, a few matches as one, a few as the other. The team aspect of survivor is very appealing, as is outgoing someone with more imnate power than you.
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So far the only killer I'm encountering whose been slugging in 2v8.
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I've read it. Still a hard pass on anything Star Wars. Dead Space, Predator, Killer Klowns, Event Horizon, Critters, Deadly Spawn or just more from the Alien franchise would be much better for SF options. Disney already ruined Star Wars for me. I don't need the disease spreading into anything else I like.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987023#Comment_3987023
I think the social aspect of gaming has been way too influenced by unrealistic expectations. It's mostly populated by young people or people that started when they were young, so you know you're gonna hear an earful. In addition, it's competitive so there's a lot of anger. I think expecting good nature with those conditions is a bit naïve. Not that it doesn't exist, but it isn't the most common. I think overall we'd be better off seeing the humor in the interactions, whether they're positive or not, and learning which battles to fight.
But at the same time, it's hard to argue the benefits of unbridled social interaction when you have to start arguing in favor of slurs and nasty comments. Maybe it's just a terminally online thing for those of us that don't mind.
I'm old enough to have seen multiple decades of volatility on the internet and I have thick skin. I don't care if some people (mostly kids) wanna be trash. I get nasty personal messages from other console players when I play killer, and I play fair. I can't imagine how much the dirty killers get, nor can I fathom what's been said about me in end game chat. But I don't really care either.
I just wish people weren't so burnt out by this behavior that I can't even thank someone for being chill or for saving me or whatever. I've met cool people I like playing with on this game, but it's hard to do that if everyone's settings are private or anon. I guess I'd rather have some censorship than complete isolation, as console is already pretty isolating with the advent of crossplay. Most people are automatically cut off from me.