cogsturning
cogsturning
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992866#Comment_3992866
I have had a few such discussions too. I know what you mean.
But I know for a fact that we are not low MMR, especially on survivor, considering how often we are actually pitted against killer players who knows how their character works, down to every little minute detail, like that Wesker in our last match on Eyrie.
Even though we got a 3-man out, he was still humble about it, and liked us giving him credit for the amazing hug-techs that he pulled off. He was good, no doubts about that. Just unlucky with the mapI feel like I'm mid MMR on both roles but I don't know what it matters. They just dump you in any lobby anyway.
You'd think I'm high MMR for killer with the matches I've been getting lately. Every survivor has been sweaty and skilled with meta builds.
I love throwing compliments to killers who had a bad match but played well and fair. At least I can respect them. Had a Michael once who got 0 kills but scared the crap out of me like four times with jump scares. Was more than happy to tell him so. Friendly interactions are the best.
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The new measures won't fix this. An added bleed out option needs to happen. Getting up from a slug at this point in the game will only get you slugged again. Survivors should be able to choose to die in a helpless scenario so a teammate has a chance at hatch.
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All these imaginary scenarios have been wild. Can we just test the changes first? You don't even know which parts will go live.
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@SpitefulHateful said:
It's not the "4K mindset", it's the "must win to be considered a human being" mindset—and it's the very old issue of the gaming community. Winners are gods, they get all the respect, their opinion matters, their word is hear, they get praise and rewards and expect adoration. Losers are barely people in the gamers' eyes—their only purpose is to be humiliated, ridiculed, and dragged through the dirt, not to mention harassed beyond the game. Their time gets wasted, they don't get to argue, they don't even deserve to use some measures against the abuse—just eat the dirt, leave no crumbs, smile and nod because you lost, so you don't deserve to be treated well.
No matter what anyone says, the "just be chill" excused don't work in multiplayer game, DBD in particular:
New to the game? — not my problem, baby, ur trash, ez, delete the game
Just trying a fun build? — loser, trash, dog, bark for us, lmao
Not trying to win — lmao you're just used to being a loser, hahah, we're so good
The worst part? At the end of the day, everyone blames those who find themselves at the receiving end for reacting instead of acknowledging that BMing options should be taken away. So, until this "winning is everything" mindset goes away, this issue will remain.
Funny thing, every discussion I've had with killer mains in this forum about these changes eventually devolves into "you must be low MMR" and "your stats must be awful" so you're exactly right. The argument gets to the point where there's nothing left for them to do but go "u r a loser" or "do you even play killer??"
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2k and 3k are the sweet spot for me as killer. The way the MMR is though, most of my matches are either 0k/1k or they're 4k. There's very little of that desired inbetween, so my matches always feel like I was too strong or that my opponents were too strong.
The way a lot of killers approach this, it's almost like they stop viewing the survivors as individual players and instead as a single mass. I just don't see why you need 4 people to lose in order to feel like you won. Each kill is its own win against a whole person. It's particularly bad if one person on the team starts BMing. Killers often become viscious towards everyone, because it's now everyone's fault. Playing survivor helps me remember they're all different people when I play killer, but if all you play only killer, I think your mindset gets a little warped because you only play half the game and ceases to understand the other side.
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The key word in your post is "sides". A lot of people only play one half of this game and express very biased and simplistic views. They can't conceptualize what's good for the overall gameplay, only for their half, and get angry about anything that isn't for that half. With a few exceptions, the most reasonable people I see here are the ones who play both.
But this will chill when the dust settles. There's just a lot of emotional reaction right now.
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The killer will still have info. Some vartiaion of BBQ is becoming baskeit, so you get free aura read. If you hook someone else, you'll find the prone one. But even if you don't, that's either 90 or 30 seconds they're on the ground not doing gens or being useful.
Anti-tunnel and anti-slug perks don't prevent those things. They just prolong the situation. That's cool that DH lets you take another hit but the killer will probably still keep coming if their commited to the tunnel. Unbreakable is one time use and you can just get slugged again.
People also don't really want to base their loadout around some people's obnoxious playstyes. But if you're really worried about losing your slug, then you can also take your own advice and bring perks to help you find them again.
This argument that lower tier killers are doomed has zero basis. People don't tunnel and slug in every single match. There are lots of people in the forum saying they never use those tactics. You can also still do both of them, it's just not as free and easy as it was. Basekit Overzealous isn't going to automatucally save a team if someone is tunneled out with no gens done. It just gives them a tiny bit of hope they didn't have before.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991961#Comment_3991961
These sound exactly like my trials. Rarely we'll pull through, but you get so used to steamrolls that it's hard to keep giving 100% or expecting anything decent. I'm not expecting much after AFC, but I'm optimistic that this will make the game at least a little more fun if done right.
Yeah I feel autodefeat immeditely now. Yet according to these killer mains survivor is soooo easy and handholdy. Tell that to my 10-death streaks lol.
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This or a weaker basekit Ruin. If gens aren't being worked on, it's not illogical for them to regress. Maybe it could be limited though, like it stops at a 3gen.
Or even just longer gen completion times. Or both. I'm all for longer, more even matches.
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Power-related deaths are probably not going to count like hook states, and people becoming condemned that early is pretty unlikely unless they're absolutely new and clueless, or the killer is so bad they can't get any hooks all match. I rarely see people die from being condemned in my matches, and if they do, it's late in the game.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992335#Comment_3992335
I think killers need to see hook states now, with the most recent hook highlighted. The whole reason it was hidden was, I assume, to avoid targeting. Now it would be the opposite: to help with spreading hooks.
I've been asking for this ever since survivors got it on their HUD. When I play killer, I often spread out hooks and even avoid killing anyone. And I can't always keep track. Sometimes I lose count or I get distracted and don't realize someone hit second state. I've been accidentally killed by friendly killers before because they lost track. Tunneling killers never needed help tunneling: keep going after the same survivor until they're dead, the end, no HUD info needed. Killers spreading hooks have always been the ones who would benefit from the info.
Now killers get a penalty for killing too quickly and still the info isn't on their HUD? What sense does that make? It's like purposeful sabotage.
I think the only argument against it would be if there are two people in front of you and you look at the HUD and see one has two hooks and the other has none and you go for the one with two. Like it helping you target someone isn't great. But with the changes, there are now more positive than negatives.
I've also had similar experiences with friendly killers, and I've accidentally killed people who went second stage without me knowing. I always feel really bad about those. If I pass by someone and see they went second stage I will stand there until they can unhook and then I'll leave them be. I cant stand crappy teammates, so that's info I want.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992293#Comment_3992293
They are indeed doing a lot, its very ambitious. The issue with overambition is, like you mentioned, things like
deadlines and squeezing money out of IPsexist. Looking back at the comment about 90s being a long time, think about killers who have slugging built into their kit, like Oni or the Twins. The timer has been presented in a way that assumes it will be consistent in both growth and a lack of resetting, which means people are assuming that it will count up every second a survivor is on the ground, and cumulatively build up regardless of number of times downed. This would essentially put a "down limit" on killers like the Twins or Oni, because they generally need or want to leave one survivor on the ground for a short period of time. This also gives the killer yet another thing to mentally track, as they will need to know whether a survivor could potentially pick themselves up before they can reach them, with a growing potential as the match goes on and more downs are secured.So now your average Twins player needs to keep track of: each player's amount of time being downed throughout the match, in a presumably non-resetting fashion regardless of not slugging any more than their kit is designed to force. Victor can situationally help with keeping track of where they go while beelining to them, but they can recover while crawling without even needing to try so they will pretty much never stay in his proximity even when someone is there to kick him. The Twins will have to keep track of hook counts for everyone mentally (like usual,) but now will be punished for killing anyone before 6 hooks, making mentally tracking hook states arguably more important than it was when people purposely used it to tunnel players out, yet the best they get is a notification of which Ada or Ace was the last one they hooked. This is on top of everything else, just the changes (as they have been presented so far) and how they apply to that specific killer when introduced all at once.
When changes like that affect a single facet of a role, that can be a bit more forgivable. Mess up a perk or killer with an update? Sucks, but there is still plenty of game to play without them. But once you start messing with things like the act of hooking and killing survivors, you need to be extremely careful with those changes as the game relies on them to function. This is why the importance of getting things right on the first try is so high, and why I compare it to 6.1 when many people found the game outright unplayable due to oversights with specific changes amongst a tidal wave of other ones.
Twins need a rework anyway and they'll probably get it. I think the three people who main them just weren't heavily considered over the health of the whole game.
I think killers need to see hook states now, with the most recent hook highlighted. The whole reason it was hidden was, I assume, to avoid targeting. Now it would be the opposite: to help with spreading hooks. I also think different color auras for different survivors that reflect a border color on their HUD image might be a good idea. The game is gonna have to be a but more handholdy if they want killers to spread, because expecting people to remember anything is too optimistic.
But I think we'll see a ton of changes before things go live, and a ton more after. It's going to be an evolving process but people are already mad and it doesn't even exist yet.
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Pretty sure perks will be adjusted for the changes. It wouldn't make sense to change the whole game and not adjust perks that interected with the old version. We're probably gonna see a ton of perk nerfs or just outright changes, like what was recently done to Streetwise. Same nams but totally different functions.
I feel it's also safe to assume that things out of the killers control, like dying on purpose or letting teammates die on hook, won't affect the killer. The problem with that is you might see more killers hook camping people until they go second stage.
But I don't think all these hypothetical people killing themselves on purpose or killing teammates is going to happen just for a gen buff. A teammate is more useful than a free perk. Shoulder the Burden will likely also process differently. Again, the killer is probably only going to be affected by their own actions, not the survivor actions. All these murderous and suicidal survivors just seem impossible to me.
But if some killer perks stop working because of the gen penalty then that kinda makes sense. Half the most useful survivor perks deactivate at end game, a punishment for completing the objective. Why shouldn't killers be punished for doing the thing they're being told not to do. And if some survivor perks become useless at that point too, it's again like end game deactivation. Some perks will have more limited use. Many ate already one time use, so why not?
I'd argue No Mither is worse than ever now. You can pick yourself up without, so it's useless there. Being unhooked has a similar effect with elusive status, so useless there, but you're still injured the whole match will little reason to run it. The killer can just keep easily slugging you if they don't want to hook you.
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@Wiccamanplays said:
First of all, the steady increase in player numbers suggests that people have not been leaving the game "in droves"; while I'm sure there have been Survivor players who've left because of not enjoying the game's current state (in spite of the bufs Survivors have rightly received), it doesn't help discourse to exaggerate.
Second, kill rates have been inflated across the board by the changes to Endgame Mori and the Abandon feature, as well as the Go Next phenomenon in general: I've had many more games where Survivors have just peaced out of entirely winnable scenarios, and I don't really see the point in letting bots escape, especially when they're usually worse at the game (this does raise the question of how much merciful Hatch escapes were influencing kill/escape rates.
Third, kill rates as a blunt statistic are not very informative by themselves: I just checked my stats and my highest KRs are on Wraith and Trapper, because I played them as a beginner and got a load of 4ks against baby Survivors who didn't have any perks and didn't know how the game worked, before I reached the MMR cap and those Killers becoming effectively unplayable. Meanwhile the more 'accurate' average of around 60% for my mains does not come from usually getting 2 sacrifices per trial with the occasional 3rd, but from having a rough split between 3-4k matches and 4 man escapes complete with teabags at the Exit Gate. My experience may not be universal, but then neither is the experience of the pro DBD player who gets ridiculous win streaks on S-tier Killers (I suspect the problem there is with the Killers they play, not with Killers in general: I've not seen someone complete that challenge on Skull Merchant).
Finally, few of the changes proposed will actually affect the status quo. While I'm generally in favour of the anti-slugging changes– though the specifics may become problematic– the anti-tunnel changes will not bother the best Killers in the game and not help the worst. It doesn't matter that gens become unstoppable and Survivors get a buff to repair speed if a cracked Nurse or Blight can still kill everyone at 4 gens. An Onryo does no better with basekit Pop and BBQ if Survivors can still effectively ignore her power and clear 3 gens before she gets her first hook.
If these changes do go through as described, and the numbers are actually meaningful, it probably will cause a drop in kill rates, but only in the Killers who already struggled to secure kills without tunnelling (who also tend to be the ones more accessible to newer players, players on console and players with disabilities). In that case, I hope it prompts BHVR to have a deep look at those Killers, the flaws in their designs, and the changes that could be made to them and the game more widely to close the gap between top and bottom tiers, so there's actually an incentive to play anyone other than the top 5.
My killer experience is about the same as yours. It's generally 0k or 4k. There's little in between and I kinda hate that. My ideal match is a 2k or 3k. That feels like an even and fair game. My main is also at the target 60% which also feels right for a fair player.
I believe the finisher mori has absolutely increased kill rates. Before it was implemented, I got a good amount of mercy hatches and killers who wanted to goof around. I still give a lot of mercy as killer but if I want it myself, I have to be very endearing or funny. It's become super rare and that's kinda depressing. I like when those barriers come down. I think it's addition was one of the worst changes for the general vibe of the game. And yeah, it's absolutely altered the stats.
I also think the survivor changes probably won't do much against the most misery-inducing killer-players, despite the loud voices crying ALL KILLERS WILL QUIT THE GAME. For the killers I play, the basekit changes are a buff and I do actually expect them to help me, a mid player using mid killers with fair tactics. But I don't think the survivor stuff is going to help as much as I'd like it to. 90s is a long time on the ground. I've had killers who've hovered over me and waited for me to bleed out for four minutes and maybe it will help those extreme scenarios, but more likely they'll just hit me again. And people who tunnel at 5gens will still do it. I don't know how you change them, and they're the real problem.
I imagine they want to see what happens with kill rates and then address more killers after, like how they're reworking Myers. I know everyone lacks faith but they're doing a lot here, and they're always doing a lot, things just get rushed with deadlines and squeezing money out of IPs. I'm looking forward to seeing future reworks for lower tier killers.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991983#Comment_3991983
Oh, wait. Is ping ponging a "cheap" tactic now? JFC you guys are never happy. They're literally cutting every killer not named Nurse or Blight off at the knees, and you're complaining that it wasn't at the hips.
OK man. I'm sure the overall KR is about to become 10%. Totally reasonable and not at all melodramatic take.
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@Slan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991929#Comment_3991929
But consider the other end of the deal. A killer cannot waste time on a long chase because then they will be punished. Pressure will deplete. A survivor back in the lobby is then required for pressure. The competitivity in the game has ensured things are how they are right now. Killers except for the fearsome 3 simply cannot withstand it without the need to resort to these strategies.
Buff each and every killer, make them be updated and able to keep up. Solve the overreliance on RNG for Dredge. Update trapper. Give stealth killers some chase power. Rework skull merchant. Rework twins. Tweak xeno. Things like that. I assure you once killers can keep, up tunelling and slugging will naturally fade because they won't be as necessary. And then, if you want to put a final nail on the coffin to ensure any reminiscence is gone, add these changes.
I agree many need buffs. That, or there should be basekit changes to some and not others to even things out, like how high mobility killers are getting some exclusions from the new buffs.
But I disagree that tunneling and slugging are the only way. You have plenty of people in the forum saying they don't use those tactics, myself included. If I lose to better players then I lose. It's only people obsessed with stats and 4ks that seem to be worried about this.
What I don't like is losing to worse players, and that happens to me a lot as surv but not as killer.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991937#Comment_3991937
Oh, gosh, you mean that killers will find ways to try to win? The absolute HORROR!
"The killers will find ways to circumvent the clear intention of the devs in trying to reduce the constant use of cheap tactics."
There I fixed it.
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@Duncan_Ellis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991937#Comment_3991937
That's exactly what's going to happen, it'll be some weird rotation. But at least that'll prevent unskilled killers from trolling out one player while the other three do whatever they want.
I always feel bad for that first player who that happens to. Not fun when it happens to me either, but depends on the map. If it's a boss map with good pallet placement and loop play, I can drag out a two minute chance on someone who can't let go, but if it's a trash map…. yea.
I just got out of a match like that. The killer ignored everyone else except two people and used an aura read build to keep locating them before they could heal. I tried to intervene and got slugged. Once those two were dead he slugged me for the 4k.
Also had a match with a Billy who got two hookings the whole match. He was absolutely horrible. Got a 4k from slugging. We all died in end game collapse.
These changes will fix neither of these garbage playstyles. The cheaps will keep cheating. There's no way around it.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991868#Comment_3991868
It's becoming clear that it's less "I'm forced to tunnel" and more "I want to tunnel". Because BHVR are not only giving buffs to incentivise not tunnelling, but removing tunnelling means it can no longer hide any shortcomings from weaker killers and they will likely receive necessary changes as a result
I wish they were removing tunneling but you know these trash players will still do it, or they'll find some work around, like staggering two tunnels.
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991882#Comment_3991882
People act like this will fully ruin the game.
Maybe yes if some points of new changes dont get resolved like self sabo surv, 6 hook states needs to be reached minimum to confirm kill.
But overall its so obvious they want survivors to have no collision, elusive just to escape far away so killer cant track them and kill them so fast like they are doing rn.
When i play survivor there are games where i get tunnelled like that i didnt even tbag or use flashlight i run toolbox build myself and off meta perks
The doomsdaying has been wild to behold. Most of this is going to have such a minimal impact, especially once it's all nerfed.
I get hard tunneled all the time and I also bring non meta perks, focus on gens, and don't BM. It's much easier to target the objective-based players than the ones with chase builds. I think they're trying to address that with this. Too many killers are getting easy wins by targeting players weaker at chase but who get the objective done.
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I'm pretty hyped for the killer buffs but I honestly don't feel like the survivor ones will change much, despite the salty tears being shed about them. 90 seconds is more than enough time to slug and hook all 4 people and hard tunneling will still happen, they'll just eat the penalty. End games builds will likely see an uptick too.
I'd be surprised if half of it gets out of the ptb tho, and whatever does will be nerfed.
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@JackIsHot said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990984#Comment_3990984
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990984#Comment_3990984
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990984#Comment_3990984
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990984#Comment_3990984
Did I said I love being tunneled? I said it's not hurting the solo-players much. And sometimes it feels really good5 if you can loop the killer for 5 generators,even no able to escape. The players hurted most by tunneling is team players who are really bad at playing, cuz all they do is get hooked and waiting their freinds to die as well. And really? You really wants to do generater all the time? I don't like to pay so much money for a QTE simulater. The machenism that you can take one more stab in 10s allow you to go to the pallet zone already.
By the way, here is my killers' page table. I didn't bought any new killers after 2018 I think. And I only play Micheal when I get tired of human. The docter is rised for the perk, it fits Tier 2 Micheal well.
You said soloq players don't care about tunneling and slugging which is absurd. Why would playing solo make me want to lay on the ground for minutes at a time? If anything, you have better protections from these things in a party because teammates might try to help you, where soloqers often won't.
You also make it sound like the goal of the match is to die as fast as possible so you can go to another match, where you can again die as fast as possible. The goal is to win by escaping fyi.
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Yeah tunneling didn't help with pips. When I play a tombstone Micheal and get a 4k through instakills I get no pips because of minimal interaction and little to no hooks. Chase and hooks, in general, get you pips.
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@KingOfGhost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991630#Comment_3991630
Not real if you think about it you down the survivor, you make a small petrol to make sure no one is here to safe them this normally will take less that 10 seconds but what if there is a survivor near by will you let them have a free safe, will you chase them or risk it. If for any reason you leave the down survivor go for rhe other even only to scare them away you gove the other one plenty of time to recover and move away from you. Now you need to relocate them and pick them up this can take 20 to 30 second alone just to make sure you will jot lose for free the survivor you just down.
If I patrol the area it's to scope out a hook and a possible sabo. That takes seconds, yeah. If I find someone, I just whack them and they usually scurry off. It's pretty rare you can't deal with this in 30 or, even crazier, 90 seconds.It's equally rare as surv that I can even fill that recovery bar up.
And sometimes they will in fact get back up, just like sometimes you lose a hook to a sabo, flashlight, or pallet drop. Saves are part of the game.
If you down two people the new aura read is probably going to show you where the other down is once you hook. There are still perks that do this too. There's also still pain sounds and blood trails, as far as I know.
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It's a fine idea and I'm all for it but the stat-obsessed 4k thirsters don't care about points.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991751#Comment_3991751
"You're new/get bad survivors/low MMR" is always used to dismiss the experiences of other killers by people who dont like what you have to say. They have no more proof that you are low MMR than they have that they're any higher.
It's been a real popular fallback around here lately, for sure, and the way everyone feels entitled to maintain an 80%+ KR is wild. If you're so good, do it without cheese tactics.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991730#Comment_3991730
Then you're either playing at low mmr, or you're losing a large portion of your matches in about 5 minutes.
60% KR (ya know, the devs goal number) so probably mid range. I get great teams and bad teams. My matches are often long and grueling actually. I'd post the 20-30 minute times but the match history part of the stats page hasn't worked for me for killer matches in some time.
I'm not sure why MMR is always where this discussion goes. What's even the implication? That the tiny fraction of killer mains in the top 5%-10% are the only players that should be considered when changes occur and all the low, mid, and casual players who make up the vast majority are just screwed?
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991725#Comment_3991725
And how long will that take? How long will it take so that 90% of the roster aren't "I Lose" buttons against survivors with more than 100 hours?
That's a really drastic number assumption. You think 100% of the players playing 90% of the roster were tunneling and slugging? Because that's not my experience.
The only high mobility killer I use is Dracula. Otherwise I play Wesker, Plague, Doctor, Myers. I wasn't tunneling or slugging and I'm not worried about any of them. I'm just getting buffs.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991689#Comment_3991689
yet survivors are expected to just die over and over and be fine with it.One of the best recent changes was the abandon system were survivors were thrilled that they could lose without it being so boring.
The amazing survivor buffs lol. No chance to come back from the four-person slug but you can just leave, I guess.
There was quite a bit of excitement about the very mid fog vials and we've seen how that went.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991711#Comment_3991711
Something has to give somewhere. Killers either need more power in the 1v4 or more power in the 1v1.
They're not going to buff every killer up into S tier, which is what they'd have to do if this patch goes through.
This is almost certainly going to be an evolving process. And a much needed one because much of the gameplay has become stale. They will likely keep doing what they're planning to do by buffing some killers basekit but not the stronger ones.
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@TheTom20 said:
The average survivor player is more selfish and less aware than they use to be so you will get those awful team mates sadly. I have seen a few people team with killers which you can report both parties for.
The selfishness is something I hate in 2v8. I had someone uncage me and a hatch spawned next to us. She stopped mid-heal and jumped in. Left me to die. I only want to play in parties on 2v8, if at all.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991689#Comment_3991689
No, the problem is that Survivors want to have their cake and eat it, too. They don't want the killer to be strong in the individual 1v1 chases, because "it feels bad. What about muh counterplay! Every power needs a 5 second chargeup complete with visual and audio cues that make it easy to dodge!"
They also don't want the killer to be strong in the overall 1v4. Gen regression? "Gens are boring. Having to redo lost gen progress feels bad." "It feels bad to get taken out of the game early!" "It feels bad to get slugged on the ground!" "It feels bad when you get proxy camped!"
The problem is, 90% of the killer roster is too weak in the 1v1 to win in the current DBD meta against decent survivors without slowing down the 1v4 in some way. They literally cannot get downs fast enough in the 1v1 to keep up in the 1v4 macro gameplay. Maps are too strong, survivors have too many second chance perks, and their powers have too much counterplay for experienced survivors to get hit with consistently. So these killers, like Dredge, Legion, Demo, etc, have to make up for their lack of power in the 1v1 by playing well in the 1v4. However, BHVR has systematically gutted every slowdown perk over the past couple of years. Now, they're removing the other two methods killers have to slow the game down.
The mid to low tier killers will be unable to compete with decent survivors if the 9.2.0 patch goes live. They will have to rely on survivors making massive mistakes in order to secure wins. The people playing these killers will either swap to better killers that can compete, swap to survivor, or will leave the game altogether. Nobody likes to play a game that they're predetermined to lose.
And killers are always crying about OTR, DS, DH, every exhaustion perk, parties, bully squads, comms, items, gen rushing, syptics, big maps, etc. Everyone complains constantly. It goes both ways and this us vs them stuff is mad tedious for those of us who like both roles. I like doing gens and have no issue with regression but yeah, I've had killers make me lay on the ground for four minutes until I die. I've even had killers AFK with me laying at their feet. There's no equivalent stripping of agency for killers by survivors.
But are you actually arguing that powers should have no charge up and no sound notification and just be free hits? Like of course counterplay needs to exist.
I kinda feel the devs have better data about where the numbers are than random people on the internet. They're reworking Myers. They'll likely rework others to shift things more evenly if it's needed.
No one likes to play a game they're predetermined to lose? That's how survivors have been feeling forever. Just look how people talk about the role on this forum. The general consensus you see here is everyone prepares to lose every match. That's how I feel too, but I don't feel that way as killer.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991673#Comment_3991673
You're joking, right?
Please do elaborate on your argument.
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@Shroompy said:
How do you even get tunneled in 2v8
Oni just needs to be tonned down and should require WAY more blood than he does right now. The uptime of his power regardless of what killer is in play is insane.
I got tunneled out in one match by a Spirit. She always came right to the cages and, out of the two or three people there, always went for me. I think I got like 5k that match.
As killer, you can sometimes briefly see the cage coming out of the ground with a white aura. You can also just guess since it's likley going to be the opposite end of the map.
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A lot of killer mains cannot accept that "it's okay to lose" part, yet survivors are expected to just die over and over and be fine with it. I'm totally cool with losing to people who were better than me, regardless of which role im playing. It's impressive and they deserve the win.
Yet as killer, I can often beat better players with just luck, perks, or a small map. As survivor, beating a genuinely better killer is damn near impossible. More often, my team gets wiped out by a killer with worse skills than all of us. But killers seem to feel they deserve kills just for existing.
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Lack of coordination is the primary problem for survivors. There's no VC (and I don't want there to be) so it's hard to know what your teammates are doing except with certain perks and HUD notifications. Survivors are much weaker than killers. They're each a quarter of a whole (which is why early tunneling is such a problem.) In soloq—which I'd assume is the majority of matches--a team with one or two weak links is doomed, even against terrible killers. It's logical for the devs to keep factoring these issues in and make changes accordingly.
I would love to see some changes to survivor that encourage genuine teamwork. Big incentives to do shared tasks or to get people off hook and out the door in endgame instead of letting them die, since it currently has zero negative effect on the ones who leave. As it is, gen speeds reduce with mutliple people on them. Seems to me it should be the opposite. It's currently more efficient to spread out, which isn't very team-orientated. There could even be tasks that require two or more survivors to work at in order to complete them.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991649#Comment_3991649
Then they need to nerf survive with friends.
Playing in a party doesn't make you magically better at the game. They're not all on comms either.
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@drag27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991554#Comment_3991554
I do, i've read the patch notes
they didnt say how much the pop will give and the BBq only reveals survivors with less or equal hook states
this takes away the killers freedom of you to chase, especially if all four survivors are the same character and wearing the same skins
these buffs arent permanent and are lessened for The Blight, The Dark Lord, The Ghoul, The Hillbilly, and The Nurse.
killer's brains are never turned off, even when their tunneling. We follow the first thing survivor we see cause thats what were suppose to do, chase/hit/down/hook. I get it you hate going against smart killers, thats why you hate and demonize the word "strategy". we'll see what impact it has when it goes live
No, the killer doesnt have any control with this mechanic besides the way you survivors want us too.
*smart killers
*incapable of looking at the HUD to distinguish between people with similar cosmetics.
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@MDRSan said:
The killer's objective is to kill survivors, not tunnel a single person out. You can kill the survivors without tunneling.
It would seem many cannot, and they're going to make sure everyone knows about it.
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@KingOfGhost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991608#Comment_3991608
What useless perk takes 90 seconds and give if after that infinite amount of chances to get up. In case you don't know the timer don't reset when the killer pick you up, and after 90 seconds, you gain for the rest of the map. You can get up 4 times before you die from bleeding out, and that includes the 90 seconds.
You still have to fill the recovery meter each instance. That's a ton of time total. No one should be on the round for four minutes anyway.
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@Ragna_Rock said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991597#Comment_3991597
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/F5CHRXC934OU/image.png
I don't think you will ever understand so im not going to continue.
Ditto. I can't explain either good sportsmanship or chillness.
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@KingOfGhost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991585#Comment_3991585
Unlike survivors that they have what 6, 7 perks for free, and they make it so the hook is the safest area to be
What useless perk takes 90 seconds to stand up?
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@Ragna_Rock said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991555#Comment_3991555
"There's no situation where you need to slug for 90 seconds. 15 or 20 to check for lurking saboteurs, sure."
This already proves you know nothing about killer. You slug so someone has to get off gens to pick them up, that is slugging for pressure if they can pick themselves up there is no reason to get off the gen should be BASIC killer knowledge.
And I have a 80% kill rate because I have played at the levels where everyone is trying to win so I have the experience to back it up. You play at lower levels so you do not have that.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SWML3Q02UVEJ/image.png
So when a casual walks in and demands the game be made easier for them because they don't like it just screams entitled.
Yeah no I just don't slug. I don't know why this info can't break through. Some people don't do it. I put them on the hook. But you don't think 90 seconds is enough pressure? That's a whole gen worth of time.
I mean cool that you're sweaty and care about some number. Who is some casual? You mean the majority of the playbase that doesn't take this game so damn serious?
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@KingOfGhost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991506#Comment_3991506
Yes, it will be 5% haste for 20 seconds for killers, except the strongest one, and 10% extra damage, so it will be around 15%.
The buff will be small otherwise; survivors will say they are too strong.
But please tell me, make a guess what the number will look like, base your idea and your experience.10 and 5 wouldn't be bad at all. They're not going to give you 3 free full perks as basekit.
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@Ragna_Rock said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991527#Comment_3991527
"It has no effect on me so that means its okay!" Least entitled dbd player.
They are only hated because they work, in some situations the smart play is to slug and now you get punished for it.
And with the anti camp update you can just unhook for free and the game actively misinforms the killer meanwhile if someone dies before 6 hook the survs get a buff for losing!?
If you truly play killer at all then you would be effected by this if not your level must be in the abyss.
I'm entitled yet you're mad it's mildly harder to tunnel and slug and you're crying about it.
There's no situation where you need to slug for 90 seconds. 15 or 20 to check for lurking saboteurs, sure.
My kill rate is 60%. Exactly where the game wants me to be. And I do it without those tactics. I imagine my kill rate will go up a bit as I already play fair and will be getting a buff for it.
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@Ragna_Rock said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991501#Comment_3991501
A s.hitty verson of BBQ that only fast killers can take advantage of and all survs will know its there and expect it.
A small haste boost to again only benefit fast killers leaving the rest in the dust.
A gen kick boost which we don't even know the number of with gen kicking not being good anyway.
wow so amazing and all in exchange for essentially getting shot in both legs, def worth it👍️.
I would rather this update just not happen and keep both my legs.
Bro if you think being slightly limited in your use of two sleazy and heavily hated tactics is being shot in both legs then that's a you problem. No one should be on the ground for 90 seconds. And you can still tunnel. It's just not free anymore. This will have zero negative affects on me, only positives.
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@Skeleton23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990986#Comment_3990986
Well if you kill urself to the killer before 6 hooks you will give ur team a permanent Repair speed bonus which will stack with Gen Rushing Builds btw to finish the Gens Way Faster.
There are multiple issues that the 6 hook state requirement will make.
Like if someone is AFK. You as the Killer are supposed to now leave them alone before you will be punished for killing them.
Survivors can us the exact same survivor and outfit to confuse the killer into tunneling by mistake.
The list goes on. Always remember Cheaters exist in the game as well. All that will happen is they will probably kill themselves with a cheat to give there Team the buff
People already leave AFKs alone. Killers swerve on me all the time, and I do the same. They're not participating in the game. It's pretty much a 3v1. Do you really need to make that worse to win?
Also, no one is forcing you to tunnel them. Just slug them if they hound you. They still have to spend time getting themselves up instead of being productive.
If people are dressed the same then watch the HUD. Paying attention is free.
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@CrossTheSholf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990498#Comment_3990498
Yeah well probably get 5% haste for 10 seconds and 3% extra gen kick regression
I cant imagine it'll be that bad but whatever it is, it'll likely also make haste perks more popular, which will shake up the boring meta.
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@Ragna_Rock said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991475#Comment_3991475
Remind me which side constantly talks about how horrible tunnelling is? For over like the games whole life span?
Oh right the professional victims on survivor.
Imagine having your hand held so hard you need like 10 base kit mechanics just to play the game.
Killers are getting basekit buffs. Would you like an option to opt out? Wouldn't want your hand held.
Can survivors tunnel killers? Who else would be affected exactly?
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@CakeIsTheRoad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990122#Comment_3990122
Most people in SoloQ don't even try to pallet save/locker save. It takes too much coordination for the rando to pull off. I've heard some people asking for the whole recovery thing to be halted if there are nearby survivors like it is with self-unhook attempts. Alternatively, you could also slow recovery rate near lockers and pallets to allow more time in case of those 4man SWF situations. I'm not too sure how I feel about either option since:
1 - a slugged survivor near a person on hook counts towards the halting self-unhook bar thing (that would need to be fixed if you are going this route). Also I could see a 3man slug situation where not gaining the recovery at all would be less than ideal (as I've been that SoloQ teammate forced to pick up 3 slugs)
2 - Slow/No recovery around pallets and lockers might be okay since you would still be able to crawl from those areas and then start recovering but I'm not sure how something like this would actually work out in game. This would only really set you back to square 1 because it doesn't actually address that SWFs can utilize slugging/pickups in specific ways to waste your time.
This would be far too punishing to solo players. People on comms would likely intentionally stay away from a slugged friend if they think they can keep the killer away and have them pick themselves. And I don't think a pause would work. 90 seconds is already really long. Maybe if they lowered that time.