cogsturning
cogsturning
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No one saw that coming, no sir.
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Though I want some changes, I do agree some of the current ideas--specifically basekit aura read on both sides--are becoming too much like 2v8. And I hate 2v8. It's all chaos and no strategy. There are no tense moments, no stealth, no nuance. It's just action. I barely play it as is, and when I do, it's for point farming.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996911#Comment_3996911
With all the new changes to unhooks, I feel like thats already pretty fair for countering tunneling. Getting caught later while working on a gen is NOT tunneling. If you get found and downed 3 separate times after given time to reset, thats just a skill issue at that point. Theres plenty of tools here to get away from the hook. People are pretending the 2 penalties are the extent to the anti-tunnel and the rest just doesnt matter.
I agree, yeah. I've had people get unhooked on the other side of the map and when I make my way back, they're just on the same gen, unhealed. It's a stupid choice and the killer shouldn't be penalized for it.
Though, at the same time, when I play soloq, I will literally beg people to heal me and they won't. They just wanted the unhook points. I feel for soloq survivors who are just screwed by their team. It's almost like survivors need a buff against bad teammates.
But also, I don't know how severe I really think these penalties are. I've recently been playing without any regression perks and have only bothered kicking gens to activate Nowhere to Hide and I can't say I'm struggling. And that's with four people left, not the three that would trigger the penalty. My survivor gen build before Streetwise was reworked was probably stronger than these penalties.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996878#Comment_3996878
I posted 2 examples with video. Neither involves hard tunneling.
I'm not saying it's not possible or even unusual. It happens in my games too, mostly because someone is just bad and keeps getting found and immediately losing the chase. But this Reddit post words it like its the way it should always be.
With all the discontent, I don't see the six hook states going live anyway. I don't even know if either of the penalties will either. Elusive? Maybe.
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Four people left at halfway? So like two or three gens finished? Isn't that normal? Do y'all really have survivors dead with less than six hooks at that point without intentional, hard tunneling?
This just isn't how my matches go at all. Everyone is usually around until maybe the last gen. But they all have one or two hooks. My momentum in matches is consistent and my stats are average.
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@kartikins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993324#Comment_3993324
I agree with both of you (cogs * solidgamer44) in that is seems really unnecessary to me, especially as killer still has good chance of finding hatch first anyway. But some players are sadly very entitled and toxic. The other day I played a game and a toxic survivor deliberately died early in the game, and another quit leaving a bot. So there's me, another human and the bot. The killer goes out of their way to focus me and the other human in such a way that they were trying to slug both of us together, as soon as they did that they start lazily chasing the bot around, never hitting it but making sure it could never get close to us to revive us. It's clear the killers entire goal was just to make us wait the 4 mins for the bleed out timer (because the bot was up we didn't get the option to abandon). We had nothing to do with the toxic survivor who chose to die, it ruins our game as much as the killers game (well more tbh - they can still play and get a quick easy win, we can't) but the killer was punishing us and wasting our time because it happened. I mean #########?! How messed up do you have to be to think like that? The killers only goal was making us miserable.
Luckily there aren't too many people like that in the game. There's quite a lot of selfish players but I guess that always to be expected in online multiplayer games, but those whose goal it is to make others as miserable as possible always baffle me.I don't understand these kind of dishonorable, toxic killers. If I'm killer and something like this happens, I'll usually focus on the bots and let the humans go. Thankfully, when I play survivor, most killers also do the same. I had a Legion not too long ago who slugged everyone with no gens done. I was the only one that didn't abandon, so he got me up and we farmed and terrorized the bots together. Went from aggravating to super fun.
I've said this before, but I think a lot of killers start to view survivors as a single mass and not as individuals and I can kinda see why. I started as a killer-only player and it's an angry role. It kind of builds up and you start taking it out on everyone. Lately, my killer matches have all had at least one disrespectful, BMing, flashlight-clickijg turd. Playing survivor as well, I understand that this person is one of four and it's not the others fault, but I think killer-only players struggle with that concept after awhile.
But yeah, some people are just dicks.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996261#Comment_3996261
The upcoming changes should be obliterated.
None of this was ever about the game feeling more fair… is always always about the game feeling more fair FOR SURVIVORS ONLY.
It was always about survivors getting massive massive changes to help them out, and killers getting absolutely garbage in return. Killers get nerfed BBQ that can be easily dodged and often shows zero survivors, they get nerfed Pop, and they get a bit of haste that's not enough to actually get to their next target. It's absolutely insulting that is considered a fair trade for completely changing camping, tunneling, and slugging.
Because survivors need help. There's been constant complaints about loss of agency through cheese tactics. Killers are doing fine. They have plenty and are getting more. And all the values from whatever survives will change anyway.
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@TWiXT said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996306#Comment_3996306
I kinda doubt it, No one believed me about the "Anti-Legion Tech", and my friends and I have been abusing it for months every time we encounter a Legion, and the Devs still haven't done anything about it. Probably because not as many people do it i guess, all it will really take is 1 moderately popular streamer to do it though, and maybe then, if it picks up, will the devs actually do anything.
I'm pretty sure that for Pig and Sadako, they're gonna take a "Wait and See" approach instead of actually fixing anything.
Yeah I don't know if it'll be good to go for the intial live. But chances are the hook number is going to go down to three or four anyway, if the penalties even remain at all. Considering the response to this, I'm starting to think they won't, or that at least one will be axed.
But I think Sadako and Pig will be addressed in a somewhat timely manner. Sadako mains are the loudest and most attached mains I come across. And I play against way more of both of them then I do Legion.
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@tjt85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996230#Comment_3996230
I mean yeah, we still got Kenneth doing his best Usain Bolt impression even though many people said it was silly.
But then Killer feedback got Fog Vials nerfed into irrelevance within two weeks of them hitting live and the reaction to those was quaint by comparison to that of the anti-tunnel and anti-slugging changes. There's no way the more extreme measures are going to make it to live. No way. Many of the biggest streamers don't approve of the changes either. I'll honestly be blown away if much of what's in the PTB isn't substantially watered down.
The moment I saw the content creators were displeased I knew it was doomed.
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I think it's safe to say they're going to make an out for Sadako and Pig in whatever version of this survives to live. There's been endless concerns expressed in regards to those two killers.
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@tjt85 said:
Yeah, I wouldn't be getting too excited if I were you…
I was excited for the Fog Vials but I definitely won't be making that mistake again in a hurry!
Yeah and look how minor those were compared to this.
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I wouldn't hold your breath on half of this making it live.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996237#Comment_3996237
And you can still feel like you had a chance to play as survivor, if killers were able to remotely hook.
Your definition of what is fair to survivors, doesn’t require killers to manually hook survivors.You keep circling back to this remote hooking thing that isn't even on the table. It's like saying I want all killers to now be able to fly, which has nothing to do with any of the upcoming changes that are probably going to be obliterated anyway.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996213#Comment_3996213
The kill rates are supposed to eventually be the same before and after this patch, so fixing any survivor issues won't actually help a fatalistic view.
Instead, it would just shift what you're upset about. For example, if BHVR moves the kill rate back up to 60% by making maps much worse for survivors, then you'll just be fatalistic about the maps. If BHVR moves the kill rate back up to 60% by super buffing generator regression, then you'll just be fatalistic about generators. If BHVR moves the kill rate back up to 60% by buffing the killers themselves, then you'll just be fatalistic about the killers themselves.
I'm fine with uneven maps. I'm fine with gens taking longer. Regression doesn't even need a buff. The overall time could be increased, and if people want to devote their builds to speeding it up, they can. And some killers absolutely need buffs, if not total reworks.
But I can't even TRY to win if I'm slugged. I'm not asking for free wins. I want matches that feel fair and close. 60% is fine, I just don't think that percent is evenly spread. There are people with 80%-90% KRs acquired through cheese tactics. Then there are killer-players under the 60%. They need the new buffs to move up.
In my killer matches, everyone is usually around until about the same time, because I spread hooks. Everyone gets time to engage. I prefer to see everyone have 20k+ points on the scoreboard. But other killers are fine with sending someone out with a less than 10k score. The fatalism isn't just about losing. It's about feeling like you didn't have a chance to play at all.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996196#Comment_3996196
And here's the main issue.
You purposely define problematic behavior in a way that can only affect survivors, and then claim that is proof only survivor issues are important.
Because really, what people care about are things that are FRUSTERATING. That is the main thing that connects camping, tunneling, and slugging. And similarly, being forced to slug is frustrating for the killer.
Because survivors have been stomped for so long that it's just accepted and addressing it with any sort of objectivity seems impossible for many people, even people that play the role. I go into my survivor matches with a fatalistic view. I expect to die and am surprised if i don't. I don't bring that view to my killer matches. I'm surprised when I lose. This is a problem. I should be able to feel equal about both roles since I understand both roles equally.
I don't know what's going in your matches that's not going on in mine. But again, I stop hook denials myself. The most frustrating thing in my matches is endless exhaustion perks letting people just zoom away from chase.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996173#Comment_3996173
It's literally the double standard of being told that slugging is bad, but only when it negatively affects survivors.
It's literally the double standard of being told that when slugging problems that negatively affect survivors are a MAJOR PROBLEM that needs big solutions, but slugging problems that negatively affect killers aren't important at all and killers should just deal with them.
If "tension" was so important to this game, then there shouldn't be anti-tunneling changes at all. Lowering the amount of tunneling lowers the amount of tension for a large portion of the game, because the survivors don't need to worry as much about getting removed from the game early.
The anti slugging changes also remove tension, because currently there is a risk that the killer could slug all the survivors, and win that way….. but with basekit unbreakable, the survivors don't have to worry anywhere near as much about that scenario, since they'll be able to pick themselves up if the killer takes too long. That's called removing tension away from the survivors.
Camping also creates tension for the survivors, because the survivors might worry they might not easily get a safe unhook.
The main difference is that when tension negatively affects survivors, it's bad and needs to be removed. But when tension negatively affects killers, then it's an important part of the game that needs to stay.
Tension and frustration aren't exactly the same thing. Chases are still tense. Hookings are still tense. Trying to finish a gen while a terror radius grows louder is still tense. If anything, slugging will be more tense for both sides because its not so one-sided. Killers will have to worry about losing their slug; survivors now have some hope of getting up but it will still be tense because you don't want to be found. And 90s is a long time.
But what is even comparable to slugging and tunneling by survivors towards killers? There's nothing a survivor can do to incapacitate or remove the killer's agency short of bully squads, who are too uncommon to base the game around and can be still combated.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996164#Comment_3996164
Therefore, the anti-slugging changes are way more impactful to the game than remote hooking.
And therefore, remote hooking isn't anywhere near as big of a change as the anti-slugging, anti-tunnel, and anti-camping changes. It's not that big of a deal, compared to all the stuff BHVR wants to change this patch, and therefore it won't "remove all soul" from the game.
I'm really saying the same thing over and over here.
Getting the person to the hook is part of the tension. Laying on the ground is the opposite of tension.
Every killer-player hooks. Not every killer-player slugs. Remote hooking affects every single player and every aspect of the game. Anti-slugging affects everyone, but only at specific times and in small ways, and revolves solely around killers who slug. And not even that drastically, because 90 seconds is plenty of time to pick someone up.
You aren't even going to feel these measures if you don't perform the actions. That's not the case for remote hooking.
This isn’t a fixation I've seen before. What has happened to make you not want to travel to the hook?
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I don't think anyone would disagree that it's unfair. A huge chunk of the player base is excluded from testing, but it's not the devs fault. I view ptb as phase one of testing and then live is when they see the full scope and make further adjustments.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996141#Comment_3996141
It's possible to have the killer player experience to be completely miserable, and still have approximately a 60% kill rate. And that really feels like BHVR's current strategy. Giving survivors massive quality of life boosts, and then pretending that the 60% kill rate is their special gift to killers.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996129#Comment_3996129
Some scenarios are literally impossible for the killer to hook the survivor. It doesn't matter what your perks are.
That would be so insanely rare with a build devoted solely to traveling to the hook. Again, not equivalent. I don't just get a lengthy slugging at least once in every batch of survivor matches I play, but I also get bled out regularly. Four minutes on the ground is much worse than losing one hooking out of dozens or even hundreds.
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The time my platform gives is a third longer than my actual in-game time from the stats page and I believe that. A lot of time is spent in lobbies and menus, especially for killer. I can also play double the survivor matches in the same amount of time because I don't spend half of it waiting for a match.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996090#Comment_3996090
Survivors can force the killer to slug, and the killer sometimes has zero counterplay and is just forced to leave the survivor slugged on the ground. If slugging is really a "bad thing that needs to be fixed", then this slugging scenario should be fixed too.
Otherwise, we are just sending the message that the problem isn't slugging, and that the problem is that slugging is negatively affecting survivors.
So you mean the same scenarios as I mentioned, like Boil Over in dead zones, sabos, and flashlight saves?
According to my stats, my most used perks (by a huge amount), are Lightborn, Awakened Awareness, and Iron Grasp. I clearly don't like hook denials. But I choose to deny the denials with my build. And I accoet that denials are built-in with perks, toolboxes, and flashlights.
Before you hit me with, "You can counter slugging with perks too," the two sets of perks that do these two different things are totally different in strength. Unbreakable is one time use. No Mither has a massive downside. Boons can be easily snuffed. And even if you add Soul Guard, you're still going to likely get downed again pretty fast if the killer is commiteed to slugging. If they'd buffed anti-slugging perks by making Unbreakable endless and Soul Guard longer, we maybe could have not done this.
Meanwhile, there's nothing survivors can do to combat that trio of perks I mentioned and they're not even meta. You are simply unable to stop me from getting this hooking every time with zero downsides for me.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996028#Comment_3996028
So the massive camping, tunneling, and slugging changes don't affect the game's "soul" at all, but the killer being able to counterplay slugging is the game "losing all of its soul"?????
Again, not everyone uses cheese tactics. But everyone hooks.
How does a killer counterplay slugging? Are survivors slugging themselves?
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@100PercentBPMain said:
you can't please everybody; i had survivor insist that any killer who gives hatch is teaming and is reportable. that was the comment that made me stop caring about what people say/think and just do what I feel like because no matter how great and nice and awesome you are, someone somewhere will hate your guts
Someone told me giving hatch/mercy is cruel because it makes the other survivors feel bad and wonder why they didn't deserve the mercy. That one blew my mind.
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To me, hard tunneling is swerving on the other teammates to pursue that still injured, fresh unhook with the obvious intention of their speedy removal from the game. Soft tunneling is seeing a group and specifically choosing the last unhook to focus on.
I get accused of it too, usually when I find the last unhook, a whole minute later, fully healed, alone, and on a gen. It's wild to me, cause I'm so anti-tunnel.
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Players 4k in my survivor matches with her quite a bit and I dont know how they manage it. Every time I've tried it takes an age for me to line up where I want to send the dog--then it still goes to the wrong place. I feel lucky if I can manage a 2k with her.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995987#Comment_3995987
Either slugging is bad, or it's not bad.
It's a massive double standard to say "slugging is bad when it negatively affects survivors, but it's awesome when it negatively affects killers"
And hook denial would still be in the game, for the killers that choose to tunnel survivors.
I never said it was awesome. Being on the ground for 90s isn't a benefit. It's still gonna suck, it's just not utterly hopeless now and you might be able to comeback from it. Killers can still slug for their own benefit. The survivor on the ground isn't doing anything useful. Repeated slugging with still cause a bleedout.
Remote hooking is too much like special events and totally lacks thrill. 2v8 is already a mindless actionfest. I don't want regular mode to lose all of its soul. We're already getting dsngerously close with so many basekit perks. It's like having built-in classes.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995942#Comment_3995942
You really think that remote hooking would be a bigger change than all the camping, tunneling, and slugging changes of this patch? Really?
You honestly don't think that all of these camping, tunneling, and slugging changes are a big deal, and they aren't massively affecting the killer's gameplay?
Very much so, yes, but I don't think they're comparable at all.
You play survivor, I know that. How often do you see hard tunneling and hook camping? Returning to the hook, yes, but outright camping? It's not super uncommon, but it's certainly not every match. And you can still return to the hook, you just have to remember where it is for yourself and check on it. And you have to go for the other person, which will be an easy choice, because they're the only one leaving marks now.
Now how often do you see hooking? Just about every match. How often does the hook denial happen? For me, as surv, not much, cause no one I play with is big on saves. As killer, it's rare for me because of Lightborn. I made the decesion to use a perk slot to not have to deal with saves.
And tunneling, slugging, and camping aren't going away. You can still slug, they can just [eventually] get up. You can still tunnel, your just gonna pay for it. And you can still camp. Not much has changed there if you keep the hook in sight.
Massively affecting the killers gameplay? How would anyone know when they haven't gone live yet? I think it will make some players adjust their gameplay, sure. But I'd rather adjust my gameplay as killer than be slingshotted back to the survivor lobby with 5k points or lay on the ground for minutes at a time with zero recourse.
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@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995902#Comment_3995902
Killer """massive""" killrates come from bad MMR and lack of knowledge from survivors against certain killers. Or you would say that Sadako is stronger than Nurse and Blight? Vecna - before the buffs - was the strongest killer in the game?
Truste me, it will become more of a slog in the patch goes like this. A part of the playerbase - the most casual - will just quit playing killer with time; other will move to the strongest killers, many trying to just power through the penalties with Blight and Nurse or going with the most meta build the can go.
Your saying that someone who has decent hours as killer has a high kill rate solely from bad MMR and bad survivors? That's impossible. I'm only at average kill rate and I almost always get mid to very good people, even when I try a new killer for the first time.
All this apocalyptic predicting that everyone will now be Nurse and Blight is so overblown. Are you planning to play those two? Cause I'm not. And the only way this changes my build is that I can now drop Pop and BBQ. Mine will be less meta than ever.
If you're casual, then you probably have low to mid MMR and don't have to worry about these hypothetical 4-mans that will be sacrificing one of their own for a minor buff (a thing that will not be happening), or those super coordinated bully squads who mostly appear at upper MMR. Those average players are all getting help with this patch, both survivor and killer. The regular, ordinary, non-sweaty players are who it's for.
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@EinRaikou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991125#Comment_3991125
Adding agency to survivors, by taking away agency from killers. I never tunnel, and only slug in situations where someone is trying to go for a flashlight save or the like... but now im told I have to avoid killing someone before 6 hooks and I have to alternate hooks. And i have to avoid hooking certain survivors or im punished is adding so many restrictions to what is, arguably, the more stressful role.
It's not really taking agency away in comparison to, say, laying on the ground for minutes at a time. That's zero agency. The killer can still act, they just have to make choices now instead of mindlessly pursuing whoever they see.
I don't tunnel or slug either and this will have little to no affect on me, as I already swerve on any recent unhooks I come across. And if I find one on a gen or performing an unhook then I'll just slug them. They can get back up, so agency restored, but they're down for the count while I go after others.
The 6 hook states is almost definitely going to be lowered anyway. They also need to add a hook counter to killer, which seems likely with these changes.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995918#Comment_3995918
BHVR wants to massively lower Tunneling AND Camping AND Slugging, which collectively is a way way way bigger part of gameplay. I think it's completely fair for killers to get their slugging frustrations fixed too.
If BHVR is going to tell killers that slugging is bad, and they should hook survivors instead….. then it's completely fair for BHVR to actually help killers to hook the survivors.
Killers should only be punished for slugging if it's the killer's choice to slug, and remote hooking would ensure that it's the killer's fault if they slug. Keep in mind that killers would only get this option if they were spreading hooks, so killers would have to earn the ability by "playing nice".
Hooking is supposed to be a challenge. I don't like hook denials, but you also don't get the hook just because you got the down. If someone brings Boil Over and I can't get to the hook, I dump them on the ground. Sucks, but they outdid me with a perk. Likewise, when someone tries to blind me, they can't, because I have Lightborn. Sucks, but I outdid them with a perk.
But these are not comparable. Hooking is something that occurs in 99.99% of games. It's what you're supposed to do. The only ones where it doesn't occur at all is if the killer is outrageously toxic and let's everyone bleed out. Slugging, tunneling, and camping aren't built-in the way hooking is, and aren't even common in comparison.
I mean, talk about handholdy. I don't know what is more handholdly than an instahook.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
I still think it’s awful that killers are supposed to avoid camping/tunneling/slugging because it’s unfun for survivors, but killers are still expected to deal with pallet saves, hook sabotages, and other hook denial mechanics.
All of the “playing nice” killer rewards are terrible. We get nerfed BBQ, nerfed Pop, and haste that doesn’t last long enough to actually get to the next survivor.
Killers should get the ability to remotely hook a survivor, off the ground, to a random hook, like the ability from the first 2v8.
Instead, we get told that slugging is a major problem…. but only when it negatively affects survivors. But it’s totally cool when slugging negatively affects killers.
You want to remove the hooking process, a huge part of the gameplay, in exchange for certain players being deincentives (but not stopped) from using certain tactics?
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@Leon_van_Straken said:
But if the Killer is waiting for one Survivor to knock him down all the time, the rest of the Team can pick themself up or am I wrong here?
Likewise you can´t abandon when other Survivors are working with the killer only when he slugs them too.
So abandon should be there to minimize the toxicity of humping, Tbagging is okay? Or should the killer be allowed to abandon when the Exit Gates are open?I also believe killers should be able to abandon sooner too. I've only noticed the option pop up once or twice in my matches.
That being said, I've gotten some last second kills from people acting stupid at the gates. But as surv, there's little you can do if the killer hovers over you and just keeps whacking you every time you try to stand up.
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I am The Average Killer and I don't tunnel or slug. I'm getting free buffs for already playing fair. I expect my KR to improve with this patch. At the least, it'll stay the same.
Most of the people I've seen complaining have high KRs and are thus at at a higher MMR than they should be and don't know any other tactics to stay there.
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My poor girl Elodie.
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@XDgamer018 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993874#Comment_3993874
Neither does genrushing...
There's literally nothing else for survivors to do in 95% of matches. Maybe there's a hex totem to cleanse or a VHS tape to deliver, but mostly it's just gens. The killer's task is to maintain pressure and keep the survivors off the gens and busy unhooking, healing, and running.
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I agree. Big fan of the original content. I wish there was more of it.
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Survivors can't bring each other back from the dead or kill the killers. Those are extremely different than anythjng in DbD. Tunneling can and still will happen. It already very often doesn't happen, so many--if not most--players won't even have to worry about these changes. Camping remains. If anything, it's about to become cheese strategy #1.
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A mute option would be nice, per character. Some I like, some I don't. My killers I'm just used to at this point. I want all my survivors to have lines because none of them should (theoretically) be speaking English and I'd like to hear them speak in their native tongues.
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@BbQz said:
I'm sure they play and even a few public matches. But I doubt any play at Max MMR but honestly I don't blame them. For the majority of people these changes will be huge wins your new player will have easier time finding chases and securing hooks with the BBQ.and chili + haste boost. New players don't naturally come to the conclusion that tunneling is super effective until they start pushing against there MMR ceiling.
Or they watched some killer videos online and got outside perspective from a hardcore player who claims it's the only way to win.
But this is the thing catering to high MMR players is how you ruins games your advice is always terrible for the average player which boils down to survivors are OP please nerf. New players rage about how easy killer is nerfing survivors is totally illogical to the.
Every time I mention that the game shouldn't cater solely to its top 5-10% people lose it. You don't get new players by only satisfying the top-tier old-timers and locking new players out. Eventually those old-timers will also leave too and you'll have nothing. A constant stream of new players is what the game needs.
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Finally
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I'm all for seeing some nerfs to the survivor meta perks. I'm also fine with increased gen completion times. Why not some smaller maps? I'd be fine with just about anything that would allow these measures to go through because it's not uncommon for killers to leave people to bleedout for the whole timer for fun, or to proxy camp a hook until someone goes second stage and then tunnel them out as soon as their unhooked. These are garbage actions that need combating.
And yeah, killers already have a mechanic to help them in chases they're doing poorly in. If someone takes you on a 90+ second run that allows 3 gens to pop while your tier 3 bloodlust and you still cant catch them then I don't know what to say to you.
And yeah, doing your job well and feeling like you're being punished does feel bad. That's how I feel when a killer gets no hooks with all gens done but manages to slug everyone at endgame and there's zero way to comeback from it without specific perks.
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People don't like changes that make things less easy for themselves. Not hard, just less easy.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994133#Comment_3994133
I have about 1200 killer hours and 1000 survivor, its not much but sure enough to know how to play, thank you. and for the record, trapper is one of the killers i have the most time on.
By "you" I mean players in general, not you specifically. I don't have any idea what you yourself do. What I know is what I see in my survivor mathches, and that's a whole lot of "killer see, killer chase." They will actually have to distinguish between individual players now.
It's plenty of hours and I never said you didn't. I'm just trying to figure out what this arbitrary minimum is in order to be a certified killer player.
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I'm always puzzled by these complaints that say things like, "I usually win but I'm still mad." Kinda negates everything else.
Buy who cares if people say rude things? I get constant insults, whether I win or lose, despite playing fair. You're playing the role that's the center of attention so youre going to get some. Just ignore them, turn off chat, or play anon if it bothers you to that extent.
And the changes are good because soloq is miserable and that's probably how most survivors are playing, and if you dont have 80% of your players choosing survivor at any given time then there's no game. Survivor can't be endlessly terrible.
It's also safe to say that the devs have a massive stack of data in front of then that we'll never see and that's what they're basing the changes off of.
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I'd rather have a teammate who can do gens, unhook, heal, and take chase than a 25% bonus.
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OK hear me out--you can just not tunnel.
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@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994040#Comment_3994040
I think part of the implementation goes to this. The problem will be that the "genius" will be rewarded even more now if the killer goes for you, since now the rescuer will have a bonus speed on gens or even perma anti-gen regression for the whole match. SoloQ will be hell even more since people will play worse now that you "cannot" be tunneled.
My point was that SWF is not a guaranteed win, despite that being the common narrative.
People are quickly going to learn that trashy players will stay trashy. Tunneling someone out early is probably still going to be more valuable than the survivor boost.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992881#Comment_3992881
Imaginary? thats a very real situation, with comments like this i cant help but to wonder if you have played killer, and trapper at all?
It's really not that hard to swerve on recent unhooks. I do it every match I play if I return to hook. You're just going to have to think now instead of chasing anyone and throwing whoever on the hook.
How many killer matches do you need to be an official killer player?
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Oh God not Ice Nine Kills.
But Phantasm yes please!
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993771#Comment_3993771
That's a good point. I'm more inclined to believe he's lying than he's 2-4king every game as a perkless Freddy. But maybe he's just that cracked. Who knows.
@drag27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993758#Comment_3993758
I mean all we see is the picture of killer and survivors. dont see his name, if he was perkless, could've also lost on purpose as survivor and even tunnel as The nightmare even though he said he's against it. He could be lying for all we know. Like you said he'd need to post his games for us to watch.
This is the peak of delusion, guys. Like you really can't accept that other people don't do what you do. I'm against tunneling and slugging yet I'm for the upcoming measures against them? Tracks. I'm also throwing my survivor matches--while playing with friends, no less--because I just like dying and lowering my escape rate for funsies, I guess. But wait, that's not it! You can't see my name! I'm actually somehow accessing some randos recent stats to carry out this huge charade for like two people in this forum.But here's another batch of recent stats. My name is visible on the top. I just didn't feel like having the whole big screenshot. But since you insist. And look, they're almost the same as last time!
So, again, if survivor is super duper easy, why am I doing better at the supposedly harder role with significantly less effort?