cogsturning
cogsturning
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@bleep275 said:
The issue is the influx of hyper-competitive players. One thing matter and one thing only…ego. They NEED that dopamine hit to hit. the validation of dominating another human. The "winning isnt everything"….they skipped that day in pre-school. Only way to make this community focused on mutual exchanges of enjoyment and respect is to remove any aspect of "tournament e-sports" kids. Playing to win is fine, everyone does that. But his community takes it way to far and acts like their next meal depends on a 4k or making the killer DC. Comp is the death of casual enjoyment and laughter and I will die on that hill.
Hard agree.
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@TheBubbaMain2003 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998118#Comment_3998118
Base Kit BBQ does not show Auras of Survivors with many Hook Stages.
And I do not want these buffs because of Tunneling thing. Just overall it would be much better if Killers would get something base kit to allow them experiment with more perks.
I think if Killer Side would get bonuses for Unique Hooks and Survivors would get Unhook Protection it would be fair.
It would be nice to change the killer meta with new basekit abilities, yeah. It would also be nice for survivors to have something basekit so they don't have to bring perks to help them not get tunneled and slugged.
And so we've arrived at the same place we started.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
Demanding that it’s unfair and you should be able to quit if the killer kills anyone before 4 gens are completed basically sums up everything we’ve seen on this forum over the past couple of days.
The idea of the killer buffs being pushed through without the survivor buffs—something many of us immedielaty started joking about—is now being discussed in earnest. The selfishness goes both ways.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998213#Comment_3998213
One question—was it a Susie?
I guess that's another feature like the anti-camp, which I'm guessing is "stronger than ever". 😝
A P1 Julie on Playstation. I screenshot killer DCs so I still have her name. I tried to message them afterwards to see what their problem was but their messages were locked, unsurprisingly.
I've had a lot of matches recently where people have been camped into second stage. Like, a lot. The radius needs an increase.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998156#Comment_3998156
That Legion was clearly angry about getting looped. I saw the whole ordeal, and they humped me too, once they finally caught me
Them DCing really topped it off though lol
@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998156#Comment_3998156
That's what made 2v8 suck so bad this time. A lot of tunneling and not enough comebacks once it started. It's starting to feel more and more like 1v4 in such a short amount of time.
2v8 is just a different type of misery for me each time it reappears. When I was playing killer this time around I would briefly see the aura of cages coming out of the ground at certain times and I was like, "why am I seeing that??"
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@Atsuka_Anarchy said:
In my experience since playing mid 2017, I’ve had a handful of toxic killers, but an unfathomable amount of toxic survivors that cause nothing but grief in my games. I do know it’s from me mostly playing solo queue 90% of my matches unless my squad adds me into a random community tournament to play in.
Biggest issues I’ve encountered in other survivors were the severe ego trips and lack of accountability, and when they don’t get the gameplay they wanted then it results in a DC, sandbagging and throwing of the match. Afterwards were commonly angry rant messages about the killer or the teammates not doing what they wanted them to do. There’d be less of a solo queue issue if there was more of self-reflection, improvement, and accountability than pointing fingers.I think toxicity and griefing are just harder to spot in killers. BMing like taunting, flashlight clicking, and throwing down pallets is obvious in survs. But what about being targeted/tunneled? You don't know the killers motivation. Is it a tactic to win or is because they don't like your character, your name, that you're a steamer, that they recognize your name from a previous match that you won, or that you wore blue on Tuesday? It's also not uncommon for killers to slug me with the intention of me bleeding out for absolutely no reason. I've had two of those in the last month.
I had a killer yesterday that got mad at me for the crime of winning my chases and hitting them with pallets. They hit me on the hook and then camped me into second stage.
And full transparency, I basically never taunt, but I escaped that match and you better believe I taunted them on the way out. From their perspective, I was probably the toxic one just for that.
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@BbQz said:
Just add the hook count penalty to abandon. Honestly OP is kinda a genius. If they kill some one at 5 hooks let people abandon. Simple as. Tunneling ends over night. Even let the killers have all there bonuses for hooking again I'm fine with that .
this also means each player can decide if the killer is just playing as is or being problematic because there are good reasons to kill some one off.
I don't know if this sort of killer-player would really care. I imagine they care about KRs and stats. If they kill the bots, they still get the numbers.
Unless the stats no longer counted in this proposed scenario. Then it might do something.
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Something I hate about 2v8 is the prevalence of rats. Teamwork is already iffy in 1v4. It's trash in 2v8. As killer, I have zero tolerance for rats. I will get you and I will let the active teammate you used as a shield leave. But in 2v8 it's almost impossible to self-moderate that behavior. There's too much going on. Killers that condone it are also trash.
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@bleep275 said:
every match not in 2v8 has been tunneling, camping, slugging, or any combination of the three. yesterday it was this and today it was this. Myers with infinite tier three (oh wow what asurprise) who tunneled one dude till death. Why? everyone is one hit down and u go after the injured dude? immedietly after it was twins which to my surprise didnt slug so much, no instead what they did was camp and tunnel.
Amazing back pedal on the PTB guys! def woulda sucked be able to enjoy a match as survivor. Once 2v8 is gone im going backto not touching survivor until the new chapter (for the achievements) and for events.
I had a Legion yesterday who I managed to run quite a bit and whack with a lot of pallets (you have to be bad if I can run you). When she finally got me she hit me on hook and then camped me into second stage, then humped the next down. Real class act. Funny thing is, the ptb was not addressing that sort of camping at all, and it will only become more prevalent if and when the other modified changes go through.
I was tunneled in a 2v8 match. The killer kept coming right to the cage locations and always went for me, despite two or three other people being present each time. Cheap players will always find a way.
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@naeveragedjoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997786#Comment_3997786
you play both sides almost evenly! 🙂
my survivors stats are a bit... well. lol but its cause i like trying to help my teammates a tad bit too much and end up putting their survival over mine.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/881WUL6FKYOP/screenshot-20250906-121506.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YMG2VHVHMDI1/screenshot-20250906-122514.png
we gonna live forever was never out of my builds when it had the bloodpoint bonus 😂 bbq too, but when i got to buy from the shrine it was changed soon after
Same for me. I have a similar ER and I die for randoms all the time. I just won't leave people behind most of the time, so I trade places with them instead. I'm also a Felix main. Must be a trait.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997275#Comment_3997275
Please explain how the official stats show that every killer wins more than 50% of the time. Are you talking about the kill rate? Because that is not the same thing as win rate. The average kill rate is 60%, which means on average, the most common outcomes are 2-3K, with 2K (which is a draw for the killer) being more common than 3K. Draws are more common than wins for the average killer.
2k and 3k is what it SHOULD be but, in my experience (and seemingly a lot of others, if the forum is a good gage), it isn't. My killer matches are usually either 4k stomps or 1k tragedies. That still meets in the middle around the 60% KR. Matches that feel even are desired but rare.
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Hopefully they just tweak it and try again. There's a lot of good ideas and something needs to change. I'm not holding my breath though.
I disagree about buffs to only soloqers though. There's a lot of factors to parties. Not everyone is a coordinated 4-man on comms. I have randos who sent me friend requests that I sometimes play with. We're not bonded in any way and many are on other platforms, so we can't even communicate. We are just people that happened to have partied up.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998078#Comment_3998078
Wow, yea that's a… take. I mean if you say "It's no fun to Mori a bot" yeah, I'd get that but that what you said… no, just no. Fellow killer mains, lets' be better.
I guess if that player was BMing endlessly and you got worked up it could feel like you've been robbed but idk, the win is enough for me.
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I would like it too, and also as killer. I often only do it because it's easier than bringing them to the hook, but I don't want to watch it either.
@OnryosTapeRentals said:
Not sure why these suggestions always get downvoted. Seems like an innocent QoL change. Is there something I'm missing? Some way this could be abused?
No, it's not about abuse. I've seen killers complain about people abandoning during the mori because they didn't get the satisfaction of knowing the person gets to see their lose as a graphic death. It's so petty I'm amazed people are brave enough to type it.
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@Amanova said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998050#Comment_3998050
I mean sure killers can quit but it deletes whole match and forces survivor to go to the next match for their challenges, it's time for devs to introduce killer bots just like in 2v8 it's been a long time since they promised
The killer bots needed to be very fine-tuned though. Survivor bots are good at focusing on objectives and know more than they should about what's going on around them but they're also dumb as all hell. Zone them onto a corner and they just stand there. If a bad killer gets replaced with an OP bot you might suddenly lose a game you were sure to win. But if they're too stupid there's no point.
They could just make it so you get challenge credit if the killer quits just like an escape. I don't know why they haven't.
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@EvilBarney666 said:
I also think small measurable bonuses for killer when facing a SWF. After all, swf is an advantage. Especially if they have comms. The killer has never gotten any compensation for that. Sure not all swf are sweat lords or evil groups of players trying to wreck the others fun. Most swf are just friends chilling and having fun.
They should not be punished for it. The killer should at least get something to even the odds a little. I have no idea what it could be, but I still think they should get something In compensation.
I would also feel the same if killers had some kind of big advantage over survivors that was from an outside source. Give the survivors something to compensate in that regards.
This would be very unfair. I play in parties and am a total dingdong with a slightly below 40% ER. Being in a party doesn't make you good. Neither does being on comms. You said it yourself: chilling and having fun. The killer shouldn't be buffed solely for that. I've also gone against soloqers who did amazing together and sure didn't need any buffs.
It would probably be too hard to put together, but I've thought for awhile that certain perks should be disabled at different levels of MMR, since that's the only true test of skill. For example, no exhaustion perks or exposed perks for top tier. But like I said, that's probably too complicated.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998045#Comment_3998045
Sorry if I was unclear in what I was referring to in my comment. This specific comment you are replying to wasn’t about the anti-tunnel/anti-slug stuff. It was addressing the overall balance question - essentially what should the “target” escape rate be. My comment was directed at those who feel that it should be 50% average across all survivor players rather than 40%.
I see it, but all of this discussion is about how the potential buffs and penalties will affect who. There's this habit of almost everyone to use high MMR, skilled 4-mans as the base around which all balance should revolve, as though the vast majority of players should have to suffer because these people exist. As much as I hate going against people like that and I will 100% lose when I do, I don't think the game should orbit around them. If they're better as a team then you'll lose and that's fine. With some tweaking, these changes would help the average, fair killer and make the average survivor feel less hopeless and that's what's needed.
And if it's 48% ER for them that's kind of abysmal for the cream of the crop when there are killers with 90% KRs. I've never seen a survivor stat even approaching that number.
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I don't DC but I'd like people to be able to leave whenever they want without penalty, or maybe a very small one, like a BP reduction.The only time I tend to get bots is when I play Doctor and I get it because he's annoying to play against, and I'm totally fine with those poeple leaving if they're unhappy with the match. I also get a fair amount of killers ragequitting in my survivor matches and I'm fine with receiving a win without physically walking thtough the gates. If they want to go, let them go. I don't want people to feel trapped in a bad match.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997757#Comment_3997757
See response to your last comment. I don’t think you understand (either that or you don’t care) about the impact of demanding that BHVR make the average game for the average killer at average MMR even more difficult than playing killer against 4-man SWF at high MMR.
I am the average killer at average MMR and the buffs were extremely appealing to me.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997584#Comment_3997584
All I see here is devs coming to their senses and survivors trying to throw another tantrum. Classic.
This entire forum was a series of consecutive tantrums and threats to permanently quit the game when the ptb was first announced.
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Like a mechanic bonus, or an extra BP bonus? Extra BP, totally, yes, why not? But I feel like there's already some mighty fine buffs being added if we're talking about gameplay bonuses.
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I'd say 4 or 5 hooks is fair. In the case of player A being hooked three times in a row because the killer is intentionally targeting them, someone has to unhook player A. If player B is downed right at the base of the hook after unhooking and the killer tosses them on the hook and immediately pursues player A again, that's still tunneling. They just got an extra easy hook in the middle of it.
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@XboxPlayur said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996826#Comment_3996826
You have agency in both of these scenarios through the perks/buffs already in the game. As someone who plays mostly killer, I only tunnel for 2 reasons. The first is an overt annoying survivor and usually they’re very good at looping so they want to be tunneled to waste time. The second is if a survivor is going out of their way to use the anti-tunnel tools to attack me when I’m not tunneling. In either scenario I have to ask if it’s worth throwing the match to kill this one guy, because I don’t play nurse or blight and how survivors have perks/buffs to combat tunneling now makes tunneling actually very inefficient. As long as survivors aren’t being super greedy/cocky/annoying, one tunnel out allows them to get at least 3 gens done and usually pretty good progress on the others. These changes would’ve done nothing to stop the nurse/blight tunneling and would’ve punished the other killers for not tunneling, while simultaneously giving them a buff they can’t even really make good use of. I get survivors are frustrated, but I refuse to believe they actually get tunneled/slugged every single match like they claim. And soloQ is always going to be at a disadvantage, as much as it sucks, because this game is a teamwork game and you’re always going to be at a disadvantage working with random people. Your builds might not go well together, you won’t know how they like to play, any number of reasons. Yes this patch would’ve made things easier for soloQ at the expense of the majority of killers gameplay, while not really getting rid of the actual problem.
Most people don't want to devote their entire build to combat someone possibly being trashy. I don't have to devote my killer build to bad survivor tactics so that just isn't fair.
There's nothing built-in to help with slugging and the slugging measure should absolutely go through in the future. The only help with tunneling is basekit BT and killers just count to ten. It's mildly better than nothing.
It's hard tunneling happening every match? No. Most killers do the decent thing and go right around a recently unhooked person. But let's consider the versions of the scenario being discussed.
If you target some unlucky person and intentionally tunnel them out with zero or one gens done you absolutely deserve a penalty and it might give you some trouble. Might. Chances are, someone like that will tunnel a second person out too, especially if they can't kick gens.
The other scenario, where you devote your time to an annoying person and three gens get done with progress on the others, do you think the penalty would really matter here? They're going to get those gens done if you wasted all your time. I think the penalty, in most cases, was being overassessed in terms of impact. My last 20-30 killer matches I've had zero gen regress perks and have barely been kicking them and I'm still winning or drawing most of my matches. The only time I think it might be impactful is if someone is dead and maybe two or three gens need to be finished. This is more of a toss up and I think it's the scenario it was designed for.
I don't think these measure need to go through as is but some variation of some of the ideas should. I also think the game should balance around its majority players, not its top 10%. If you have a 90% KR because you tunnel and slug then you need to come down, and if your struggling with a 40% KR but play fair then the basekit perks need to lift you up.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997531#Comment_3997531
Don't let anyone bait you into posting your stats. It'll just get twisted in whatever way they want the argument to go regardless. Your ideas should stand on their own and they can agree or disagree based on that.
Yeah it definitely got twisted. Oh, your recent survivor matches are bad? It's not because survivor is rough, it's because you suck. But your recent killer matches are good? It's not because killer is easier, it's because you're lying about tunneling and slugging. Actually no, those must be someone else stats.
It was totally ridiculous.
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My overall is 60.87% but my monthly is a better reflection cause I was pretty bad for a long time. Now I'm just okay.
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It's been disgusting in here. I was just saying in another post how I've been accused of having never played killer, posting someone else's stats, throwing matches on purpose to skew those stats (that aren't mine anyway), and tunneling and slugging even though I'm against those tactics because the stats that weren't mine were too good. And I've had a couple blunt insults thrown in too. This is solely because I want the game to get some much needed changes, and wanted to test the changes before we freaked out. People are too attached to one side or the other to be unemotional and objective.
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@BigKingWoof said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997498#Comment_3997498
You are correct. There were countless killer mains screaming "Crybaby survivors getting their handheld!!!!!". Thank you for supporting my claim.
I was being sarcastic in regards to the comment you responded too. So, you're welcome?
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997512#Comment_3997512
The title alone — “once again the killer wins” — is emotional and not exactly neutral. That’s fine; people are allowed to be emotional about something they care about. What bugs me is how every emotional post gets framed as Us vs Them. That framing is what actually turns it into Us vs Them. Saying “this part favors killers/survivors” on a specific point doesn’t mean you’ve sworn allegiance to that side forever.
You can be 100% on one side of a specific issue without it fitting the whole us vs them narrative. It’s unfair to assume someone only plays/favors one side just because they take a firm stance on a particular topic.
The emotional response has now flipped to the other "side." It's not going to be as loud, I imagine. More like the gloom and defeat that settled around the destruction of fog vials.
Yeah, you can't always assume, but some people hide their biases better than others. Many out themselves with their wording by saying things like "you survivors [this]" and "killers always [that]".
Throughout this fight, because I dared to say things like "let's test it out before we decide how we feel" or "the survivor experience has become miserable, particularly in soloq, and needs a boost" I've been accused of never playing killer, posting both killer and survivor stats that weren't mine, and lying about not tunneling and slugging. Received a couple nasty insults as well. Being emotional is one thing, being deranged is another, and some people have been just that.
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@XboxPlayur said:
there are some good ideas in the patch but a lot of it is too heavy handed and affects normal gameplay. I agree hardcore tunneling needs to be addressed, and the malicious 5-gen sluggers need to be stopped, but this wasn’t the way. Adding all of this on top of the existing anti-tunnel/slug tools and buffs survivors already have would make killer unbearable. Apparently the devs agree. And I would argue that adding more and more perks base kit reduces build variety and forces everyone to play the game the same way and that itself makes the game stale. Everyone already know what’s going to happen every match.
What non-perk, basekit assistance do survivors currently have with slugging? Because I know for sure all I can do is lay there.
We are already lacking in variety. Almost every one of my survivor matches I see Pain Res, DMS, Surge, BBQ, Corrupt, Lethal. Survivors aren't much better, but at least there's a little more variation, and it'd be nice to drop the anti-tunnel and anti-slug builds for things people actually want to use instead of things they feel they have to.
It concerns me that regualr mode could become too much like 2v8, but I also think the changes would increase variety. I use info perks like BBQ a lot. I was looking forward to getting it for free to open that spot up for something more interesting. Free Pop might reduce regression perk usage as well.
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@XboxPlayur said:
not everyone was calm and reasonable but plenty of people expressed real valid concerns from the start. have you seen the original post of this thread? Don’t pretend like survivors are ways calm and reasonable. But all I’m seeing now are survivors claiming the only reason this patch was canceled is because of loud screeching which is blatantly not true. The patch was very flawed and we saw it from the announcement, luckily for everybody the devs listened and we will hopefully get a better solution to actually tunneling and malicious slugging in the near future.
I'm assuming this response is to me.
This survivors vs killers thing is obnoxious. The most reasonable takes I've seen throughout this have been from people who either play both roles or who are not overly and emotionally attached to their prefered role. There's been a serious lack of objectivity and unbiased views in this uproar.
The patch is being postponed, hopefully not canceled. It needs to be adjusted. There are many good ideas and the game needs something to make it less stale and aggravating.
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@BigKingWoof said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997488#Comment_3997488
I like how you made the killers the level headed ones when they were the ones losing their minds collectively and got the patch scrapped.
Yeah that's absolutely the way this played out. No insults were flung. There weren't a zillion overreacting posts. Everyone was so clam and reasonable.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/456090/once-again-killer-wins
Calm down buddy your preferred role is still stronger.
I'll remember to be grateful for that when I'm bleeding out for four minutes cause the killer thinks its funny, or next time I lose ten matches in a row, a thing that's never happened to me as killer.
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@joeyspeehole said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997311#Comment_3997311
Well also, BOON: CIRCLE OF HEALING!!!!! …they gutted that and all healing around the same time. The discourse on 3-genning was happening during and before that nerf, yet it took them 18 months to address it with the 8-kick rule. Survivor concerns are not addressed with urgency.
Boons are a tragedy. I love little objectives like blessing them or doing invocations but none of it's worth the trouble.
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@ArcT said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997311#Comment_3997311
Also, the only even slightly meta killer perk to have gotten nerfed in the last year is Franklin's. The killer meta has been stale to the point of tedium for years. I have no idea what this dude is talking about. If you go all the way back to a year ago, I guess you could include DMS changed to only affect one gen at a time while having its duration buffed. After that… Sable's patch and the mangled nerf? So March of 2024 for the last significant nerf. To Sloppy Butcher/Gift of Pain.
Yeah I have to say, as much as I hate chase and second chance builds on survivors, I find the killer builds mostly boring as all hell. At least with survivor you do see some fun, creative, or memey builds. Killer is just regression and aura almost entirely.
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@CrossTheSholf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997270#Comment_3997270
You say as killer perks have gotten murdered almost every chapter
Perks on both sides are constantly getting nerfed, adjusted, ot reworked. Streetwise was one of my go-tos. It was totally ruined recently and mostly died in silence thanks to the bug in the rework taking precedence. Vigil is also on the chopping block.
But in terms of game changes, recent examples like fog vials and this patch were all killer-sided. And survivors are STILL getting DC penalties for getting tunneled too fast.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996984#Comment_3996984
Yet this is exactly what they did with afk crows and "go next".
Crows were briefly tested and the feedback given was that they were "too strong and punishing". That feedback was completely ignored, the version was pushed live with zero changes, no delay, and no "consideration for feedback".
"Go next" wasn't even tested, and went live in a highly abusable state.
Only the loud backlash after going live made a difference. At least for crows, since go next was pulled, then stealthily put back in with no patch notes and no changes, and is currently live in the same state where being hard tunneled can penalize the survivor.
So BHVR is wildly inconsistent at listening to the "loud feedback", as well as watching for "abusable scenarios" apparently.
I'd say they're consistent. The consistency just has a wee bit of a slant in one direction.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997244#Comment_3997244
You know who's bringing out Scene Partner for that occasion 😇
looks the other way, whistling the tune of a certain lute
We need to get the band together fr. This must happen.
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@tjt85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997222#Comment_3997222
Do it! Already cooking up a "make some noise" build of my own:
One-Two-Three-Four + Bardic + Red Herring or Diversion + Blast Mine.
My escape rate's gonna to go through the floor and my teammates will probably hate me, but it will totally be worth it. Hopefully I can get at least one other Survivor to jam out with me.
Oh hell yeah. Scene Partner for vocals too.
Yeah that's what I want, like a 4man all with instruments having a jam session. You just need to hope you land a lighthearted killer.
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@tjt85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997196#Comment_3997196
It's easy to forget all the new content, tbh.
Don't know how strong she will be, but I really like the new Killer's design and Vee is such a cutie. And it's gonna be fun to whip out my tambourine and play it in the face of the angry hornet's nest of tunnelling Killers that BHVR have now whipped up into a frenzy for us. Silver linings and all that…
But yeah, feels like we only just got the Walking Dead yesterday and yet here it is, more content… Phew.
I'd like to start a full band with One-Two-Three-Four and Bardic Inspirtation but I'm worried fun might be illegal.
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@tjt85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997155#Comment_3997155
Oh yeah, it was absolutely crazy to think they could reasonably act on all the feedback from this absolute chungus sized beast of a PTB. It was always looking like a very ambitious update to me, so I'm not at all surprised the more controversial changes have been pushed back to a later release.
The anti-tunnel / anti-slug updates were obviously going to trigger a massive backlash and I get the impression BHVR might have been surprised by the strength of feeling and push back they're received. You wouldn't pack so much into one update unless you're not expecting such resistance. Honestly don't know what they were thinking.
After the The Great Fog Vial War they should have seen it coming. That was so much drama over something so minor.
There was so much in this update I completely forgot about the new characters. I've had to keep reminding myself that they exist. We just had The Walking Dead, which most people thought was handled poorly and needed more work, particualry that god awful map. Before that we had Springtrap. I'm so exhausted with all this new stuff. Please just adjust the game to be more enjoyable.
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@tjt85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996969#Comment_3996969
I understand the caution and potential risk to their bottom line if they don't get this right. I get it, these changes rock the boat. They're not conservative. But I hope BHVR can hold their nerve and give Survivors something substantial at the end of all this. It's honestly frustrating to see the community not even willing to give these changes a real shot on the live servers. I was looking forward to seeing what impact the full fat versions of the new systems would have on just playing the game the way I usually do but nah, it's too much to ask for the wider community to get a chance to test things out. *Insert popular DBD content creator here*, reddit, twitter, the steam community forum etc said it was all bad, so I guess it must be. But what if players outside this weird little bubble of obsessive DBD superfans might actually like the changes if they ever came to the live servers? Now we'll never know.
Imagine if the Killer buffs go through in full but we get a watered down anti-tunnel system that's barely much better than base-kit BT… That would be the nightmare scenario for me. Or it would be if I still played much Survivor.
Yeah the ptb isn't a fair assessment. Console players have no access, or Epic players. It's so limited. It's also going to be full of people intentionally exploiting it to test its limits, which doesn't give a great idea of how average, casaul, or non-streamer players will interact with the changes.
With each day of more and more screaming, I saw it coming more and more. Especially when I see posts like "look what happened to this content creator." Then you know something is doomed.
I agree, they need to get it right. I'd said in another post that they should have done this separately from the new killer/survivor release. This was an absolute overload of additions.
I think that's become everyone's (well, everyone reasonable) concern--that killers will get to keep everything and survivor, the already struggling role, will get little to nothing.
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997055#Comment_3997055
Ehh, i did expect them to pull this move believe it or not these were all at once given to us in PTB and judging how harsh values are and half of perk values were not really properly stacking too.
They will most likely have to go through all of perks again in the survivor roster and killer roster and balance it from user and streamer feedback.
Lower that 6 hook requirement before kill to 4 will be also very smart move.
Remove basekit pop and replace it with basekit pain resonance since the gens were popping more than usual in the PTB.
Basekit pop is just way too situational time consuming only worth running on S tier killers to just get right at the gen and rotate meanwhile on m1 killers including new myers rework its still not viable.
I will however say basekit corrupt should so badly be brought in game and allow gen repair but at stock repair speed and you cant use any perks or items to accelerate repair speed.
10% haste is marvelous for the amount of time you get it for allows you to travel 8meters extra depending on ongoing perk and killers.
Killer instinct needs to come back
Real time unhook notification and sound needs to come back
Elusive is super fine and it really helps it should stay in game and polished way more and tiny value changes and gain from it.
Idk if i missed anything?
We've also discussed hook counter being visible to killers quite a bit. I'd also mentioned a unique aura color for each survivor with a corresponding HUD color. The problem with both of these is that if they don't absolutely nail the anti-tunnel, they will be wesponized as pro-tunneling tool instead.
I might disagree on the sound notification for hook. Real-time visuals on the hub can maybe stay for those who pay attention. Killer instinct is a bit of a problem since you can't distinguish who's who with it, and it might cause you to choose the wrong mark on accident.
Elusive is good but needs tweaking to also not be weaponized even worse than the BT protection hit. Item interaction, like flashlights and pallets, needs to be completely paused during Elusive.
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The ptb should have either been for just the new killer and survivor—and maybe some small updates/tweaks, like the pallet density—or just the major changes. There was way too much going on here at once, but the desire for endless new content is going to hold back actual progress. I'd rather see that progress prioritized over even more characters and perks in a game that's overflowing with both.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997026#Comment_3997026
To further the prediction, I predict they'll still act like it was some survivor sided change.
We should start a betting pool. Whoever wins can use the money and buy themselves a new cosmetic to get tunneled out in.
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@CLHL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997019#Comment_3997019
That's how the world works. If you're a waiter and you keep dropping trays, you'll get fired.
Just look at the forum right now. It's burning with discontent from the survivors. And all because of a problem that they themselves created by proposing radical changes without considering all the possible consequences. This whole PTB has been one giant case of negligence.
Not a single real match was affected by this. People being mad on the internet is their own choice. No one is forcing you to type.
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@I_CAME said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996971#Comment_3996971
That's exactly how it will turn out. I will make a bold prediction right now and say that somehow killers come out of this stronger than before. We get a useless anti tunnel and anti slug that doesn't do anything and killers get basekit pop and BBQ.
I think so too. Killers will get to keep their new basekit perks and survivors will get one extra second added to their basekit BT or something lame like that.
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@CLHL said:
Trying to implement these changes while ignoring the peculiarities of 40 killers was bound to fail completely. I'm afraid many people won't like this, and the backlash is already inevitable and deserved for proposing something like this without considering all the possible consequences.
The game has been self-balanced around tunneling since its inception. You can't expect only 4 killers to be viable overnight. If you announce a perk overhaul and the first thing you read in the patch notes is nerf after nerf to the perks that slow down the match, you're obviously not being realistic with your proposal. Because the pace of the game is the biggest concern for both sides, the survivors don't want to lose in a matter of minutes, but neither do the killers.
This should result in someone getting fired, but we know that won't happen until it's too late.
Testing out some ideas that didn't even go live shouldn't lose you your livelihood.
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@dark_hunter92 said:
This is crazy. Do they realize how killer-sided this community is. Like of course killers are going to complain about learning to adjust and actually play the killer.
Like I've said before, the loudest voice in the community will control the flow of the game. Even if it's causes unfair gameplay for the opposing side.
That loudest voice seems to be people who either exclusively play killer or just barely touch survivor. But 80% of any match is survivors, so these killer-only players have to be a massive minority. The people who play only survivor or play both just aren't obnoxious enough to make change.
I want to enjoy both roles and, from my playing, only one side is in need of a little boost, especially for soloq players. But even a boost to both wasn't good enough.
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@Willish said:
I don't think they'll ever come tbh. It's Behaviour. How many times have they let us down in the past.
I think we'll get something, but neutered to the point of borderline uselessness.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996942#Comment_3996942
Except for all the doomposters on reddit, twitter, youtube, etc, who was absolutely dead certain that bhvr would be pushing the changes from ptb to live as they were, regardless of feedback.
Which was absurdly emotional and illogical. Fog vials didn't even survive. They thought this would?