cogsturning
cogsturning
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Bummed none of these are characters I play but they're all really stellar.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001916#Comment_4001916
Im having around 60% too but without perks gens fly thats it and even if I have lot of fast chases.
Idk what differs about our experiences cause I'm not very good. My KR for the month is about 66%. If I didn't give out so much mercy to the last players, it'd be a bit higher. My top used perks for that period are BBQ, Tinkerer, Lightborn, and Nowhere to Hide. So mostly info. I always have a new target.
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@Wolf65 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001543#Comment_4001543
Wait a minute...what?? That is insane. Killer goes for the unhooker, downs him and hooks him and starts chasing the unhooked and you call that TUNNELING?? He ignored the unhooked, chased and hooked rhe unhooker so fast, that your trails are still visible?? And you call that "tunneling"? That's entitlement galore. So the killer is not allowed to go for the unhooked and not for the unhooker? So what is the killer supposed to do?
I'm saying the unhooker goes down at the feet of the unhooked. A trade. No chase. That gives the only unhooked a few seconds of space. You'll catch up to them almost immediately, you just don't have to count to ten anymore.
And yeah, I guess i think people are "entitled" to a moment to reorientate because I don't do it as killer. Unless that person does something stupid like try to sabo or hop right back on a gen instead of leaving, I just go after someone else while they run off to heal.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001700#Comment_4001700
Boring maybe but necessary for many killers to get chance, slowdown buys you most time then strategyes like tunneling and sluging and then few hexes like devour or full hex build can buy you some time but without these perks its just 90% guarantee genrush and endgame camping nothing more against survivors with 1,5-11k hours.
I'm doing fine with almost no gen regress, hex perks, tunneling, or slugging. I'm not gonna have an 80% KR, but I maintain the target 60%.
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As survivor, there are worse things. They are a nuisance but its manageable.
As killer, I rarely use them. Maybe one here and there but I always regret it. They're so boring.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001565#Comment_4001565
How would we know? but we cant balance a game around a few super good players that play the game for a living.
We'd know the same way we know about the killers: they'd make a big ol spectacle of it on social media.
And yes, that's absolutely true. You shouldn't base the game around them. But their insane numbers are what's hiding the problems for lower-performing players and lower tier killers who need work.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000929#Comment_4000929
Same question define tunneling?
If you mean killer going for one survivor ignoring others from the start or in early stage of the game thats tunneling for me thats need to be punished but hooking one person twice in a row doesnt mean to be direct tunneling for me like someone stepping in trappers trap or hags, being found injured in deadzone or someone using his antitunnel as shiedl for bodyblocks and then getting chased down and hooked isnt direct tunneling for me and this shouldnt be punished.
Genrushing for most people is team of survivors which has direct build for fast gens but if surivors spread and do gens supper effective (2-3 gens to the killers first hook or ended chase) and fast even ignore killers presence and fact they are injured then this isnt good either, survivors actualy can get many gens done if they spread and do them insted other actions and this isnt hard because in early stages of the game killer has to go through many paletts which means normaly 2-3 gens get done near first or second chase and then some paletts are broken and gen deffence which are the most used perks and strongest perks killer has they work with hooks most of them like pop,pain res,grim embrace,deadmans switch. There should be some basekit dying light which will slow gen speed or some other factor that increases gen regression if killer has like 2-4 hooks on last gen if they should be punishments for hooking same person twice which is ok inearly game but hardcore not to do in endgame and abuseable by smart teams like bodyblocks are (they are same as slugs just diversion for other survivors to waste time and for downed one to not being able to do objective or heal back).
Wait, so spreading out is gen rushing? Even without perks or toolboxes? They're just doing the objective. You getting caught in 90s+ chase isn't being gen rushed, it's you blowing it.
But if you use that first version, with builds included, how often do you see a team fully stacked with gen perks or BNPs? Not often? Basically never? Now how often do you see tunneling? Not every game, but far more than the gensquad.
And basekit gen regress was exactly what was proposed in the patch.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001502#Comment_4001502
Aaaand survivor mains…. Always find the one killer who is much better than the avarage player as an example, this thread alone is a fine example of that.
But do even the best survivors go on 1000+ game win streaks?
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@Wolf65 said:
Hook, trade, tunnel is not possible. If I hook and trade, I do NOT "tunnel". That is not possible. I either trade, or tunnel. Calling trade-tunnel as tunnel is just bitching.
If someone goes down performing an unhook, you toss them on that hook, and then immediately follow the still-visible trail of the recently unhooked survivor, you are still tunneling them. You just got a bonus in between. It would be no different if you slugged or ignored the other person instead.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999939#Comment_3999939
Killers are overly represented on the forums? Like they are more than 1 in 4? These posts over the last week or so show how blatantly wrong you are. Look at my comment on page 1, it's so neutral, not favoring either side and yet it has double down votes over upvotes. whether that be because people just lack knowledge or it's survivor mains down voting me without thinking, this last week most definitely shows there are more than 50% survivor mains on the forum.
When you talk about streamers that's just because survivor youtubers and streamers make pure content way more than they project their view, whereas it seems players who are originally killer mains are much more objective oriented. Not to say there aren't killer mains projecting an immensely biased view on the forums but all of the popular threads are neutral and wary at worst.
The current state of the forum doesn't show anything. When the patch was first announced the forum was on fire with killer-sided posts. Fog vials were the same way. Whatever side isn't getting their way is the loudest at any given time.
There are a few exceptions present, but If you have a side at all, you're probably not objective. And it seems like whichever side people personally favor also manages to have the more objective and unbiased opinions from their perspective. Funny how that works out.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001067#Comment_4001067
What did you think was going to happen, when survivors demanded for maps to have less dead zones? Did you expect BHVR to just add more pallet and loops, and keep all the existing stuff the same?
In order for dead zones to be removed, the existing pallets and loops need to be made less safe. That's how map balancing works.
And I still don't understand why people feel the need to complain about weak loops and pallets, but never complain about loops and pallets that are so strong that killers have zero counterplay and zero meaningful interaction. If loops and pallets are supposed to be "more interactive", that means the stronger loops and pallet should be weaker so they become "more interactive" too.
We can definitely weaken the strong loops, for sure.
But bloodlust will have to go.
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@ArcT said:
Are you serious right now?
Using flashlights.
Body blocking.
Sticking to gens.
Pre-Running.
Sabotaging a hook.
Using Head-on.
Using Blast Mine.
Using Flashbang.
Using Power Struggle.
Using Dead Hard.
Using Distortion.
Hiding.
Trying to attract attention.
Stunning the killer.
Having any second chance perk.
Protecting teammates.
Not protecting teammates.
Unhooking too fast.
Unhooking too slow.There are very few things that survivors can do, especially when it comes to direct interactions with the killer, that are not constantly cited as toxic/unacceptable behavior that justifies retribution. The difference is that killers are given the agency to enact their retribution. Survivors can only appeal to BHVR to change the rules, like any other unpleasant/unhealthy meta in any online game, or killers' better nature, which is treated as 'attempting to police them.' "Please don't do this," vs "If you do this, I will punish and BM you" are both rules for the other side, but only one has agency.
This is very true. This is why I ask people what the survivor equivalent of tunneling and slugging to remove killer agency is and I never get a satisfactory answer. It'll be something lame, like gen rushing.
I also, to some extent, follow the killer rulebook for survivors. I don't use flashlights. I rarely sabo. I don't bodyblock offensively or obnoxiously try to take chase unless it's a desperate measure to save someone else, and I know the potential consequences I'm bringing down on myself if I do.
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I'll be glad to say goodbye to tombstone, and I'm saying that as someone who used it a good amount. It was totally unfair.
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@Wolf65 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001143#Comment_4001143
Gen rush is not just that. If you lose several gens before you even get a single hook, your in trouble. We have so many 2nd chance perks and loop/chase extension perks -plus still insane pallet density-, that it's not about the toolboxes. It's about the time it takes to get a down and hook, compared to gens being done in general. No BNPs needed.
I do not play both sides equally. I am a killer main and I don't lie about it (like so many survivor mains do). I play solo and we all know, that solo survivor is miserable compared to full SWF on coms. When I play survivor, I play immersive. I suck in chases and don't want to get chased. I sneak, repair, safe, heal mates.
If a survivor is doing a gen with no perks or toolboxes and it's finished in the default 90s that's not gen rushing. That's you wasting your time on one good looper instead of spreading pressure. I shoot for two to three hooks before the first gen pops. That's a good trajectory.
"I'm a killer main and I'm honest unlike those lying survivors." A totally unbiased take.
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@Wolf65 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001068#Comment_4001068
Predropping and prerunning is an issue today? What did I miss since 2021? I rather hated survivors always going for the stun -because it became to easy and riskless- and I hated them disrespecting me and sitting on their gen right until I can swing at them.
And genrush IS a gamebalance issue.
Gen rushing in modern dbd would be if a whole team brought BNPs and wire spools in Commodious toolboxes along with gen speed perks. I don't think I've ever once seen this happen. Almost everyone brings exhaustion and second chance.
And I'm a killer that follows the rule book. If you play both sides regularly, you understand how much it sucks to be slugged or tunneled by low-skill killers who don't want to engage with full gameplay, they just want cheap and easy wins. There's nothing survivors can do to similarly incapacitate a killer.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000927#Comment_4000927
Wanna know why?
Because it is boring to always have to run second chance "meta" perks, that maybe gets you to another unsafe loop before you inevitably go down again.It shouldn't be a requirement at all.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000929#Comment_4000929
True gen-rushing would be to bring toolboxes with BNP's and builds specifically for doing gens as fast as possible. At least that is how I would define it
True gen-rushing would be to bring toolboxes with BNP's and builds specifically for doing gens as fast as possible. At least that is how I would define it
Which almost never seems to happen. I never see more than one person with a gen build in my killer lobbies, if even. It's all second chance and exhaustion. Yet this term is ubiquitous.
I feel like the usage really means "three gens got done while I wasted two minutes chasing the strongest looper instead of maintaining uniform pressure."
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Bless the fun and fair-minded killers. I aspire to this level of chill. I play serious and I kill but I also spread hooks and try to keep everyone around as long as possible. I want everyone's match to feel well-rounded. Do I lose sometimes for that compassion? Sure. But at least the match was active and full and not just four people bleeding out at 5 gens up. That's not fun to me as either role.
The only time I double-hook or slug is if people are body blocking or flashlight clicking or otherwise inviting negative attention. But even when I slug like that, it's with the intent that the person will get back up. I'm just putting them in time out for bad behavior. I'd rather them be able to stand up after 90s instead of the team having to go fetch them.
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@For_The_People said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000815#Comment_4000815
and yet evidently the data and mixed experience shows that isn’t the case. Inferring from your posts, it seems you play super efficiently and ‘cold-blooded’ as this is what you deem to be how the game should be played and you feel that even though you probably have a 99.999999% KR, you still feel survivor is easy; that the KR stats average (60% for killers) is only because so many games are played sub-optimally by even high MMR survivors as they are emotionally driven and not efficient..
IF everyone just played optimally and without human emotions, the game would absolutely die. You may feel that is how it should be played, but those stats and experiences you mentioned should prove that people don’t want to play that way. And if they do, you have somewhere you can go: the comp scene.
what was that expression again?“weaklings die, big deal!”
I think this highlights exactly the impasse the devs need to navigate at this time: who is this game for, the chills or the sweats? They can either continue to cater to those with 80%+ KRs and the few teams who can maybe go against them, or they can cater to average players who aren't going to get a doctorate in map layout, pathing, and perks. The people who just want a few fun matches with friends after work, or those have turned this into a personality-defining lifestyle. There doesn't seem to be room for both with the current matchmaking structure and mechanics.
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@thrive2survive said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/456470/does-dbd-favor-killers
Of course it favors Killer overall. They want to keep the kill rates at 60% instead of 50% because they don't have the balls to nerf SWF for all the information it provides. When they do that, then I'll believe they're looking at both sides. Until that point, it stays the same.
Nerf what though? Are you going to hinder people solely because they have friends? I play in parties and have 39% ER. If anything, my altruism towards teammates often ends me. SWF isn't an instawin.
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@Wolf65 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000755#Comment_4000755
A call this made up nonsense. If a killer is "hard tunneling." and "face camping"(which is technically been removed years ago), it's a free gen rush wirh anything past a 1K being the survivors fault.
Most people aren't so ice cold that they'll just do gens while their teammate dies on their first hook or gets targeted the whole match.
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@UnicornMedal said:
My favorite trials are ones where I get to stealth and hide from the Killer and also engage in meaningful chases where I can help my teammates, play altruistically, and not be abandoned in the end (unless I sacrifice myself). I'm almost too willing to play martyr in the game, which might come as a surprise. I just don't like when it feels like I'm peacing out for nothing at all. Sitting on 1.5 gens between getting chased off, then downed and tunneled out is the opposite of how I want to experience the game but it's also the most common scenario.
I'm also a martyr. I'm pretty much incapable of leaving if someone's on hook at end game. Even if I'm the last one left, I'll just go trade their death for mine. It's why my stats will always be in the dumps.
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Close matches, both as killer and as survivor. I like everyone to be on death hook with 1 to 0 gens left. I want it all to come down to the end of the game, and I want all four survivors around until then. That to me is the real tension. Who will live and who will die? Unfortunately, I rarely get that. I intentionally spread hooks to keep everyone alive for a while but some people are just so bad there's little I can do. And as survivor, I rarely get the courtesy of hook spreading.
I'm also a huge fan of hijinks. The most fun matches I've had have been either silly or the ones where the killer played their own mini game. I recently had a match against a basement Springtrap running Franklin's and we had to first get him to let us open the chest, and then try to get the item away. But he kept hitting us and standing on top of it. A well placed boon totem allowed us to recover from downs too, which worked out perfect for that match. It was probably the most fun match I've ever played.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000928#Comment_4000928
im not sure what bully squads you have against but in my experience bully squads spend all match trying to make the killer quit, they dont do gens at all. and with the hatch, doing gens is optional as many have clearly shown they can hide all match not touching a gen and still escape. survivors CHOOSE to loop pallets. they can lose line of sight, hide, make use of the whole map but its not optimal to do so and will result in them losing. thats why people loop. killers can CHOOSE to spread hooks but its not optimal and often means the killer ends up losing thats why they tunnel. elimination is built into the game just like pallets are. survivors use pallets as efficiently as they can, killers eliminate is efficiently as they can. there reall is no difference.
The argument to bring perks to counter bully squads doesnt apply to killer because killer only has 4 perk slot. its impossible to cover everything with only 4 perks. survivor on the other hand, they are a team. they have 16 perks between them with many perks that benefit everyone not just themselves.
survivors have plenty of 2nd chances throughout the match i really dont think giving them yet another chance to come back after they have all been downed is the way to go. at some point people have to accept the loss. if survivors misplay and end up getting themselves slugged in a group together no way should they have yet another 2nd chance. its like saying if all survivors perform so badly in chase they all get themselves hooked then expect a way to come back, being left on the ground and being left on hook is the same. Both disable to survivor from playing the match, both not fun experience, slugging is longer but it also means its more time for other survivors to do gens.
my apparent double standard is due to the drastic differences between my killer and survivor matches. as killer im going against sweaty swf team and a regular basis so i have to use everything in my arsenal to win as do they. as survivor im solo so it is harder to counter tunneling especially when people dont do gens or just mess about in the corner of the map but i can counter it with a good team and even with bad team mates sometimes. not always counterable due to the team or my own skill but i counter it enough to maintain a 45% escape rate, tunneling requires team effort to counter effectively.
i know many people have said shouldnt need a team to counter tunneling because some people go in solo but if that was the case then swf would demolish killer. thats the main issue i have seen, swf v solo. they are like 2 different game modes. v solo tunneling isnt needed so much because you can always rely on poor team play and people that just do totems or going for adept. this helps by the killer time to play fair. SWF is totally different. they have good team play, coms, synergy with perks….thats when tunneling is needed, its not a choice its a must. how do i know i dont know if its a swf squad or solo team from the start so i assume its SWF and i play to that. sorry solo people but i didnt know your not swf untill it was too late.
I don't DC so they're gonna have to do the gens or die. Those are the options. I don't think I've ever seen anyone hide and rat for hatch the entire match.
I get cordinated teams but I can't remember the last time I saw a true bully squad. Or maybe I just don't notice because I run Lightborn and Iron Grasp and I watch out for hook denials. So yeah, you can bring perks to counter them. Survivors have four perks. Almost no team except upper MMR cordinates perks. I play in parties and not a single person has ever done that. And most people are probably solo. You're saying your solo but you're talking like everyone is skilled SWF.
Whether SWF would demolish killer remains to be seen. There are a lot of people just in this forum with 80%-90% KRs. I've ever seen survivor stats anywhere near that.
If you're going against sweaty, cordinated teams consistently then you're higher MMR and that doesn't mesh with you saying you struggle to be at 60%. Even with the killers I have 70%+ KRs on the sweaty SWFs are still the minority. So what is your KR?
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@DarKStaR350z said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000518#Comment_4000518
I mean at least survivor bots do gens unlike my usual teammates 😂
Idk if they've been shadow nerfed but the pub match ones have been outrageously useless in my recent matches. I've watched multiple bots run around in circles with no clear goal. The ones in customs have been better.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000849#Comment_4000849
XP. Every time, I will play for XP. Grind out the Rift faster and earn Iris quicker.
Eh. I'm done with the Rift by a month in. XP giving shards is appealing though. Give me more of those, faster, and I'll suffer more. I've got plenty to unlock still.
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@sinkra said:
If tunneling should be punished so should gen-rushing.
Define gen rushing.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000901#Comment_4000901
Huge difference between squads that intentionally go into a match to bully with no intention of actually doing the gens or playing the game v a killer going into a match doing what they are supposed to be doing (killing). This is part of the game, part of the gameplay. its like survivor saying they dont like sitting on gens because its boring… dont play that role then? if i was frustrated with pallets then we should remove pallets? no, just dont play killer.
People do mind losing very much lol, survivors hated being slugged for 4min by toxic killers, understandably. They wanted a way out of that match and claimed for ages "i dont care i lost, i just want to go to the next match." They got exactly that….abandon option. Now people have that option, many have openly admitted they want a way to recover when slugged so they have a way to make a comeback. But people said they didnt mind losing when slugged as long as they can get out of the match penalty free.
As far as im concerned if people cant counter being tunneled thats on them. As others have pointed out, its a tactic and sometimes it doesnt work. if it worked EVERY single time then yes nerf it but it doesnt work EVERY time. Its exactly the same as loops, some are very strong and cant be mind gamed, have to force the pallet drop. do these strong loops work for the survivor EVERY time? no. Should we nerf them because they can be strong and unfun for the killer to deal with?
Both tunneling and bullying are choices. Doing gens isn't optional. Even the bully squad will have to do gens if they want to leave. I've never seen a squad that just let's themselves be killed once they're done terrorizing the killer because they don't like gens. Strong loops and pallets are also built into the game. You're comparing a choice you are making to things that are an inherent part of the game's design. Tunneling and bullying are choices that can help you win but that make other players miserable, but one is much more common than the other.
You can make the same argument for bully squads. Don't like being bullied? Should have brought Franklin's, Awakened Awareness, Two Can Play/Lightborn, Mad Grit, Agitation. Or maybe you should just "git gud." You expect others to loop amazingly but can YOU counter being tunneled? Can you loop the killer for 3-5 gens and also escape the match? You've said you tunnel cause you can't manage otherwise, but you expect other people to be good enough to counter it. Bit of a double standard.
As for slugging, I said they don't mind losing in fair and balanced matches. I didn't say they don't mind losing to cheese tactics. I am one of those people saying survivors should have a comeback chance. There's no reason to leave people on the ground for multiple minutes. There's also situations where the killer hovers over you and keeps your teammates away until you die. That should not be happening.
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Every match? I think I see one Hyperfocus every 30 matches, maybe.
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Soon this game will just be toxic tunnelers and bully squads that both despise each other.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000680#Comment_4000680
To be blunt… no i dont care. i dont mean to sound harsh but when 2 sides are competing and 1 side is losing, its not always going to be fun for the losing side. no one is forcing people to play a frustrating game, they do it out of choice. survivor or killer, makes no difference. As selfish as it might sound, when i play any game, im playing for me not to entertain others.
You are indeed forcing people to play a frustrating match if you're hard tunneling. The killer is making the choice for others. Just like bully squads choose to make frustrating games for killers. And it's not about losing. Most people probably don't mind losing an even and balanced match where no one played dirty. Close matches are more thrilling than stomps. They mind being forced into a loss by some showing no skill and who was unwilling to engage with regular gameplay.
But if you can't hover near the average KR without constant tunneling (and I'm not sure I believe that) then that's on you, and that's why something needs to change in this game.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000677#Comment_4000677
Doesn't help that incentives are completely broken, with 5+ min killer queue I get 1.25 on survivor it's insulting, what's even the point of incentives if you're not going to use them ? give me a real bonus and I might be able to endure solo queue
I'm pretty much done with soloq. I don't know what incentive could make me play without company to suffer with. The 5x wasn't enough for 2v8. Maybe 10x would make me suffer occasionally.
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Edit: the forum is being weird for me. Didn't mean o have these extra posts.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000325#Comment_4000325
Yep. I do hope they bring the "play while you wait" feature into the normal queue, so that Killers can play Survivor while they wait in their long queues and experience things from the Survivors' side for a change.
I don't know if the hell that is soloq really needs killer mains throwing matches because they're just killing time and getting BP between the ones they actually care about.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000677#Comment_4000677
Kind of crazy because I've been following the numbers since there were so many arguments about what queue times would be pre-patch. Nearly 8 minutes for killers on the German server at the moment.
If you just play during primetime hours servers look reasonable around the world, but outside those hours they quickly get out of whack.
I'm having the opposite experience. Any time before midnight has seen slow but once it's sweaty hours I'm right into a match.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000365#Comment_4000365
absolutely not… the cheating problem is what needs to go.
Nah both can go
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000599#Comment_4000599
then your very skilled :) i on the other hand and many other killers out there are not as skilled as you. i cant achieve what you can. i get 45% escape rate with poor team mates and tunneling killers. im sure others can too right?
I am the very definition of average.
And that's cool that you're not frustrated, but you don't care if your opponents feel that way instead?
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@brewingtea said:
I don't want anyone else to quit. My concern is that, yeah, too many people ARE quitting. Have you seen the queue times? I'd be worried if MY livelihood was tied to it in any way.
I haven't played since I unlocked the last of the 2v8 stuff, and I probably won't again until at least the next chapter, if not the Halloween event… IF the rewards are decent…
I'm certainly not going to play the regular mode as survivor (without some big incentives) for quite awhile to come.
Yeah killer wait times have been brutal. I can play about double the survivor matches in the same time slot.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998699#Comment_3998699
Antislug will be probably the same as it was in ptb antitunnel was real problem with punishments after hooking one survivor twice in the row or getting kill on less that 6 hook stages which is hard with c-tier against decent survs and can hurt both blight tunneling someone out on 5 gens as clown getting kill on one gen left with 4 hook stages and that sucks.
For your antitunnel its 90 seconds with faster crawling speed and auto recovery and another bar fulls up every time you are downed and recovering then when it fills up you can get up when you fully recover which can be basekit some 32 sesconds and with perks like unbreakable like 24 seconds infinitly every time you are downed so its not weak as you claim it is.
People shouldn't be getting slugged over and over and over in a match anyway. That's the problem. 90s is already a long time to be on the ground.
They will also certainly be adjusting and reworking perks that relate to slugging and tunneling to fit whatever they decide to do anyway. Perks are kinda irrelevant until something goes through.
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@runningguy said:
even with your proposed figure changes it still doesnt solve the issue that certain low tier killers NEED to tunnel hard against good survivors so the changes would either have no effect or essentially kill the killer role. maybe the devs have realised this and dont want every match to be v same 3/4 killers as they are they only ones to perform good enough without tunneling. if i have to v nurse or blight more than i already do i wouldnt touch survivor. i rather tunneling remain and atleast go against a variety of killers. its not just tweaks thats needed its a whole new system thats needed.
I play as mid and lower tier killers and have a 60% KR and I've never needed to tunnel to win.
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@Princeharlequinhq said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000513#Comment_4000513
tbh I never actually experienced them pre-nerf so I can't speak to that but ill take your word for it
It was more how people complained about them and they were immediately destroyed. There wasn't enough time to even adjust or feel them out.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000503#Comment_4000503
Tbh it doesn't trigger Adepts anymore and correct me if I'm wrong but escape challenges are affected as well. I'd rather play against a Killer bot.
They just need to change it so you get the adept and the challenge credit. I don't want to go from playing against a bad killer who was guaranteed to lose to an OP bot who somehow turns it into a win.
But if it's as dumb as the survivor bots have been lately, then sure, a bot is fine.
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Nothing's changed for me.
I often run Built to Last so Franklin's was never an issue. I could just go get my item and refill it. I could refill everyone else's too. And if I wasn't running BtL and I lost the item, I can't say I cared much. I don't need it to play.
I never even used it once as killer. Still won't. Items don't scare me.
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@Princeharlequinhq said:
I definitely can see your side of it because it does seem as if everytime something new is introduced to the survivor side, it gets gutted or removed.
I dont think it has to do with bias though. I think it has to do with the corner the devs have backed themselves into due to how the game is balanced. A lot of the very fun things that were added tipped that balance too much and therefore had to be nerfed or changed.
If they would actually buff the lower tier killers massively, the role itself, or rework them to be in line with the top contenders, all of those fun things could be added back because the killer kits would have the tools to deal with them, however they can't do that because they then they would unintentionally buff the very unfun strategies that some killers utilize such as tunneling and camping.
I think what it comes down to is them being afraid to actually shake up the game, not necessarily bias.
Did fog vials really tip the balance though? They didn't even really have time to. They got about a week of usefulness. Most people who liked them thought they were more fun than practical. I was mostly using them as a meme item and saw much of the same from others. Meanwhile, most of the complaints were that they were annoying, which isnt exacrly game breaking.
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@CorvidXCVIII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000474#Comment_4000474
Yeah, I'm just hesitant to attribute malice towards BHVR's decision making. I don't think they've ever made changes with the express interest in making one side, one killer, etc. miserable to play. Even Skull Merchant's nerfs I feel were more about removing an issue more than deliberately messing her player base around.
Are they perfect? God no. Are the changes they make always for the better? See last answer. That doesn't mean they hate people who play certain roles or characters though.
Oh I certainly don't think they're malicious. That just wouldn't make sense from a business perspective. I think, as mentioned above, they do a lot with money in mind, and that causes a lot of in-game problems. I also think the sway of certain content creators is far too strong. It's a lot to juggle. I don't envy the devs.
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@CorvidXCVIII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000307#Comment_4000307
Yeah, for sure re. people just auto deciding based on a username. I'm not sure about the tone part though. I don't think I've said anything remotely controversial in this thread nor phrased anything in an inflammatory way and yet I've nearly 3X as many down votes to up votes on my first comment.
Yeah the tone thing isn't 100%. Depends on the topic. But there are some people who are consistently diplomatic who usually land upvotes. Then they're are those who are always spicy who will consistently get downvotes, even from people who might have agreed with them if they knew how to phrase things reasonably.
Your comment is, indeed, pretty soft, but people probably don't like that first sentence. They're determined to believe one side is favored over the other.
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I actually don't get why luck offerings are still a thing if this can happen.
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First, not everyone BMs. All survivors don't need to be punished because some do it.
Second, killers BM too. I don't BM as surv yet I get humped and hit on hook, or camped into second stage because the killler was mad I hit then with pallets or won chases.
Third, you can just shove them out the door. It's not even comparable to laying on the ground for minutes at a time or bening fast-tracked back to the lobby.
It's actually wild how often these two totally different groups of concepts are compared. Are people really this deliacte that they're taking out they're rage at an occasional BMer on the whole player base?
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@CorvidXCVIII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999939#Comment_3999939
Or.. "fixing" ghoul makes his value proposition lower and him being new means more money. We see this with new killers all the time.
Yup, that's what I said at the start of my paragraph.
Killers are over represented on the forms and as streamers And in groups of long term players that "prefer" the role.
I don't necessarily agree that killers are over represented on the forums, most of the big prominent names I think of here make mostly survivor inclined takes (many of which I agree with) and looking at the voting (which, admittedly is flawed) you often see killer takes, including ones with a great point, get downvoted whilst survivor takes tend to have more upvotes- even if all they've said amounts to "killers bad".
When it comes to media though, oh boy, I strongly agree with you. I really tried to find any video talking positively about the anti-tunnel and slugging stuff and the closest I got was Scott Jund. Even creators who I had watched in the past for survivor content were negative.
I don't necessarily agree that killers are over represented on the forums, most of the big prominent names I think of here make mostly survivor inclined takes (many of which I agree with) and looking at the voting (which, admittedly is flawed) you often see killer takes, including ones with a great point, get downvoted whilst survivor takes tend to have more upvotes- even if all they've said amounts to "killers bad".
I wouldn't base much on the voting. I'm positive there are people who will downvote someone because they see a name they generally don't agree with and just autoclick down. Same for the other way around, seeing a friend or someone you usually agree with and voting up, regardless of the content. A lot of people don't seem to engage with the voting at all, so you're not getting a genuine overall opinion on a view. I've also noticed that the tone of your post can dicate how people react more than what it actually says or what side it favors.
@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000207#Comment_4000207
Anyone who actually looks at the upvote/downvote ratio between killer and survivor posts sees the exact opposite.
I don't think they balance the game around upvotes and downvotes on the forum.
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I don't think a dip in usage is really unusual after a killer has been out for a minute. I might be in the minority from what I hear around here, but I barely see Kaneki either. I also think many of the curious new players the game got from FNAF have likely fallen off by now.