catawumpus
catawumpus
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Whether you think the OP was perfectly sourced or not, the core tension they’re pointing at is real: DbD leans on perk/monetization band-aids instead of fixing root systems, and 2v8 has unintentionally spotlighted that.
A few clarifications and more constructive framing:
- The “old vs new” nostalgia debate is a dead end. What has changed is how much perks are asked to solve design problems (tunneling, camping, info famine, chase length, gen tempo) that should live in basekit and maps. When every complaint is answered with “run X,” you’re designing loadouts, not trials.
- 2v8’s popularity isn’t proof of “pure skill”; it’s proof that variety + identity are fun. Two killers, more bodies, fast rotations—people enjoy the social chaos and the distinct feel of each match. That’s a signal to lean into identity (clear roles, thematic cohesion, class differentiation), not stack more universal perks.
- Cosmetic revenue is normal for live service. The criticism isn’t “skins exist,” it’s that meaningful systemic work moves slower than cosmetic drops, so gameplay pain points linger while the shop hums. That perception gap is on BHVR to close.
- The kill-rate back-and-forth misses the forest. A 2.4 vs 2.6 average doesn’t explain why matches often feel like coin flips. That feeling comes from information creep + perk bloat + map RNG + SWF comms stacked atop old rules. Numbers ≠ texture.
If we want a healthier direction (for both 1v4 and 2v8), argue for changes that don’t care whether a post was typed by a human or a toaster:
- Move band-aid perks into basekit knobs. Anti-tunnel/camp, chase clarity, and gen tempo should be tuned at the ruleset level, then slim the perk catalog to flavorful modifiers—not crutches.
- Cut information spam, reward information play. Less free aura wall-hacks (especially in 2v8), more deliberate, time-bound intel that asks for risk or setup.
- Identity over homogeneity. In 2v8: give survivors real class identities (not four flavors of “gen/saves”), and curate killers that actually fit the mode. In 1v4: stop pretending every killer belongs in every playlist—category queues or soft filtering would reduce “Legion again?” fatigue without hard bans.
- Map and objective work, not perk work. Modular horror spaces, clearer macro incentives than “five gens or bust,” and side objectives that create tension instead of just faster bars.
- Publish philosophy, not just patch notes. If the game is meant to be horror-first (not esports-first), say it and ship toward it consistently. If it’s a party fighter in scary clothes, own that too. The whiplash is what fuels half these threads.
We can dunk on formatting all day, but none of that fixes why so many matches feel simultaneously sweaty and shallow. Tighten the foundation; let perks and cosmetics decorate the house—not hold up the walls.
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The irony here is that the “old Guide” wasn’t actually the problem — it was just highlighting bigger flaws in how 2v8 is built.
If survivors only felt threatening because one class could temporarily spike gen speeds, that’s not a “gen rush problem,” that’s a design problem.Right now the new Guide feels neutered, but instead of reverting or deleting, BHVR should be asking: why do survivors only feel impactful through raw generator numbers? That’s the real issue. If the survivor side had more variety in objectives (unique class tools, resource management, map-specific tasks), Guide wouldn’t need to be a glorified “faster gen” button or a bootleg Scout.
And it’s also inconsistent — killers are still allowed to bring brain-dead pressure tools (Legion literally exists to erase counterplay by pressing M1), but survivors get their one pressure lever ripped out because it looked too much like “rushing.” That’s BHVR’s identity crisis in a nutshell: punish survivors for pushing the objective, keep killers that push brainless slowdown.
If 2v8 is supposed to be “casual chaotic fun,” then Guide should feel like a fun class with its own unique identity — not gutted into irrelevance. Nerfing them without providing anything else just leaves survivors with less to do, which is the opposite of what the mode needs.
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Honestly, this is the kind of idea that shows why the “random killer every match” system just doesn’t work anymore. Survivors get no agency, and when the dice roll gives you Legion five times in a row, it doesn’t feel like “horror,” it feels like a slot machine that ate your quarters.
A ban system (or even just an anti-repetition mechanic like Philscooper suggested) wouldn’t just be about comfort picks, it would naturally improve variety. If half the lobby bans Legion, queue times for Legion get longer, which incentivizes people to pick other killers. Same thing would happen for Huntress, Blight, etc. Suddenly the underplayed killers — Pig, Clown, Doctor — show up more because they aren’t clogging survivor queues.
And the “what about new chapter killers” concern? That’s just BHVR’s identity crisis in action again. If a killer is designed well and actually fun/scary to play against, people won’t mass-ban them. People only want to dodge killers that feel miserable or boring. If your release can be killed by a ban system, maybe the problem is the design, not the players.
At the end of the day, survivors don’t need full control over who they face — but giving them some agency (whether it’s one ban, or just protection from repeat killers) would go a long way toward making the game feel less like random coin flips and more like a proper horror anthology.
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I actually think posts like this show why 2v8 shouldn’t just be treated as “1v4 but bigger.” Trapper’s whole design is already map-dependent and inconsistent in normal trials — in 2v8 those flaws get magnified because the maps are larger, basement doesn’t exist, and traps get disarmed almost instantly in chaotic lobbies.
So while buffing him with basekit Honing Stone or faster resets sounds nice, it’s really just a band-aid. You’re still left with the problem that his kit wasn’t designed for 10 players (total). Same with Oni, Legion, etc. They either become unbearable for survivors or useless for killers depending on the lobby.
If BHVR wants killers like Trapper to work in 2v8, it needs to be systemic:
- Map design that actually supports trap play (more choke points, less sprawling dead space).
- Killer synergy mechanics, so Trapper can coordinate with his partner instead of just dropping traps that get insta-disarmed.
- Survivor classes with actual counterplay tools, instead of just everyone running around diffusing traps instantly.
Otherwise all that happens is exactly what you said — endless requests to bolt random buffs onto killers just to make them feel usable in a mode they were never built for. That’s not sustainable design.
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I get why people want 2v8 permanent — when it works, it is fun and chaotic. But right now, the reason it feels “ruined” for so many is because 2v8 is basically just the base game’s flaws magnified.
- Queue times: permanent 2v8 would absolutely destroy 1v4 matchmaking, because everyone wants to be on the “killer side of chaos.”
- Killer roster: people joke about Legion + Oni for a reason. Those powers were designed for 1v4, not a 10-player mode, and in 2v8 they go from “annoying” to “soul-draining.” It’s not fun for anyone.
- Design clutter: instead of building 2v8 as its own horror-anthology mode with unique maps, classes, and mechanics, BHVR just duct-taped the existing game together. That’s why it feels repetitive so quickly — you’re not playing a new mode, you’re just playing a bigger, buggier version of DbD.
If BHVR ever does want to make 2v8 permanent, they’d need to rebuild it from the ground up: cut killers that don’t fit (Legion being Exhibit A), add real survivor variety (more than just 4 shallow classes), and design maps around 10 players instead of bolting on the existing ones. Otherwise it’ll never feel like “chaotic horror,” only “chaotic mess.”
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Honestly, the whole “junk offerings” problem (map offerings that don’t work anymore, fog thickness that’s been meaningless for years, luck/spawn location, basement, hatch, etc.) is less about those specific items and more about DbD’s deeper design clutter.
BHVR has this habit of never removing anything, just piling more stuff on top. That’s why the bloodweb feels like a slot machine where 50% of the pulls are things nobody actually wants. It’s the same reason perks get bloated and half the roster of killers feels redundant: instead of cutting or reworking, they just keep stacking.
Deleting useless offerings wouldn’t just be about “cleaning inventory.” It’d be a signal that BHVR is willing to admit when something no longer serves the game and simplify. And honestly? That’s what DbD needs across the board. Streamlining bloodwebs, pruning dead perks, focusing add-ons around clear identities instead of filler, etc.
So yeah, map/fog/spawn offerings being junk is a problem, but it’s really just a symptom of DbD’s bigger issue: BHVR keeps patching and adding without ever truly curating.
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I respect the effort you’ve put into this write-up — Legion mains deserve a voice and you clearly thought this through. The problem isn’t that your ideas are badly structured, it’s that they’re trying to polish a design that was never really healthy for the game in the first place.
The core issue with Legion has always been the same: Frenzy was designed around mass injury, free Deep Wound spam, and constant wallhacks. On paper that makes him “pressure heavy.” In practice, it just means survivors sit around mending over and over while killers still struggle to secure downs. Nobody’s actually having fun. Survivors don’t feel scared, they feel bored or annoyed. Killers don’t feel threatening, they feel like they’re nickel-and-diming survivors until the match drags to an end.
That’s why I don’t think buffing Frenzy’s speed or add-ons solves the core problem — it just doubles down on the unfun part of Legion’s design. The healthier path forward would be to reframe Frenzy as a chase enhancer rather than a free-injure gimmick:
- No automatic Deep Wound. Let Frenzy help you stick to a target instead of turning the entire lobby into a mending simulator.
- No free Killer Instinct radar. Legion doesn’t need built-in wallhacks — it removes the tension of actually tracking survivors.
- Frenzy gives haste, faster vaults, and short bursts of momentum so Legion becomes the “relentless pursuer.” Survivors still get to play instead of mending nonstop, and killers actually feel like their power closes chases.
- Add-ons like Mixtapes could then enhance different chase flavors (vault speed, stamina, breaking actions), instead of just being “more mending tax.”
That way, Legion finally has a clear and healthy identity: the knife-wielding pursuer who won’t stop chasing you down. Not the “bleed-out bot” who artificially drags matches on.
The reality is that BHVR keeping Legion the way he is has nothing to do with fun. He’s their “proof” that survivors aren’t always the power role (because Legion matches either drag forever or collapse instantly), even though everyone involved hates the experience. Reworking Frenzy into an actual chase tool would be the first time Legion felt like a real horror villain instead of a design crutch.
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Catch-up mechanics in 2v8 honestly just highlight how duct-taped the whole mode is. Right now it feels less like horror and more like math homework: survivors get a bonus here, killers get a penalty there, and in the end neither side actually feels like they’re playing a horror match.
The bigger issue is that DbD already has built-in catch-up mechanics — killers with oppressive snowball potential (Legion, Oni, Blight, Nurse) and survivors with second-chance perks/basekit saves. Slapping another % modifier on top just makes the experience swingier without actually fixing anything.
And yeah, it ends up punishing killers for doing well. If you get 3 people caged early, suddenly the survivors are zooming gens like it’s NASCAR, while you’re wondering why you’re being penalized for landing hits in a game that literally tells you to land hits. At that point, the mechanic isn’t “catch-up,” it’s “stall until survivors get bored and leave.”
If BHVR really wanted 2v8 to avoid stomps, they’d stop fiddling with numbers and actually rebuild the mode:
- More survivor classes so matches don’t just feel like 8 generic gen-rushers with different hats.
- Restrict/remove killers whose powers literally don’t translate into 2v8 (Legion free injuries, Oni blood orb farm, etc.).
- Make maps modular and objectives varied so both sides have something to do beyond gens vs slug.
Right now, the catch-up mechanic is just a band-aid on a leaky pipe. It’s not creating balance — it’s making both sides feel like their success gets discounted. And nothing kills horror faster than a match feeling like it doesn’t matter what you do.
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Legion (and sometimes Oni) are just the loudest symptoms of the bigger problem: 2v8 isn’t designed for balance, it’s duct-taped DbD with double the bodies. That’s why people either get stomped instantly or sit through 30-minute queues for one match of aura spam.
Nerfing Oni/Legion or super-buffing survivors isn’t really going to solve it. At best you get a band-aid — survivors feel strong on paper, killers feel miserable, and the queues don’t get better because the novelty is still on the killer side.
The real fix would be for BHVR to actually treat 2v8 like its own mode (or even its own game):
- Give survivors more archetypes beyond “slightly different gen runner.” A Ritualist, a Chest-specialist, a Meatshield — things that change how you play.
- Make killers synergize instead of tripping over each other’s powers. Right now Legion’s free injuries just turbocharge whoever their partner is, which is why he’s hated here.
- Build modular maps so it feels like a chaotic horror anthology, not the base game with 8 people shoved in.
And yeah, some killers just don’t belong in 2v8. That’s not an insult — it’s reality. Legion’s whole design is ‘free mass injury with no counterplay,’ which is already boring in 1v4 and outright unplayable in 2v8. Oni, same deal — his weakness evaporates when another killer is farming or feeding him blood orbs.
So I agree — Legion shouldn’t be in this mode at all. But the bigger picture is that 2v8 needs to grow beyond “let’s scale up 1v4.” Otherwise we’ll just keep arguing about which killers ruin it this week instead of making it into the horror experience it could actually be.
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I don’t think the problem is ‘punishing’ survivors for stepping on Medic’s role — the real problem is that survivor classes in 2v8 just aren’t differentiated enough to make roles meaningful. Right now it feels like ‘everyone can do everything, but one stat is slightly better.’ So of course you get Escapists stealing unhooks or people chest-farming. The game doesn’t give classes enough unique identity for players to feel like they’re crossing a boundary.
And yeah, I know some people will argue ‘but Escapist is busted for looping’ or ‘Guide is busted for gens.’ Sure, those perks help, but you don’t need to be Escapist to loop well, or Guide to do gens. That’s exactly the issue — classes don’t actually gateplay. A Medic should feel like the team’s lifeline, not just another survivor who happens to get a cooldown perk. A Chest class should make loot feel meaningful, not just be a side-activity anyone can do.
This is also why 2v8 feels so shallow compared to what it could be. Instead of doubling down on distinct survivor archetypes (Ritualist, Meatshield, Chest specialist, etc.), BHVR just slapped 4 generic roles on top of the base game. It’s the same problem as Legion being in the roster at all — unfun design is left to fester, and players are told to adapt, while the core systems never evolve.
If BHVR actually leaned into survivor identity the same way they lean into killer cosmetics, these problems would fix themselves. You wouldn’t need to punish non-Medics for unhooking, because only Medics would even want to. But as long as every survivor can do everything, frustration and role overlap will always be the default.
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I agree survivor side needs more to keep people queuing — new classes, chest identity, even basement loot pools would all help. But the bigger problem is that 2v8 is just amplifying the base game’s systemic cracks.
Survivors aren’t just ‘boring’ because they lack toys — they’re boring because their whole role is still tethered to gens, because MMR still produces coin-flip matches, and because killer design is all over the place thematically. Adding shinier items is nice, but it doesn’t fix the fact that 2v8 is just the 1v4 foundation duct-taped bigger.
This is why queue times are killer-sided: everyone wants to play the ‘fun’ side, while survivors feel like placeholders. The solution isn’t just new loot, it’s actually committing to 2v8 as its own mode with its own rules, objectives, and identity — otherwise all these good ideas just end up wallpapering over the cracks.
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Yeah, exactly this — 2v8 suffers because survivors basically feel like 1v4 survivors but with more auras and more chaos. BHVR hasn’t actually designed survivor roles for this mode, just re-skinned the base game. That’s why queues are so lopsided: killer side feels fresh, survivor side feels stale.
The problem is, every flaw in the base game just gets magnified here.
- Generators being the only real objective? In 2v8 it’s even more obvious and repetitive.
- Survivors feeling like interchangeable placeholders instead of horror archetypes? Now you’ve got 8 of them at once, so it’s twice as bland.
- Unfun killers like Legion and Oni dominating? In 2v8 it’s near unbearable.
You’re right, this can’t be fixed with tweaks to chest timers or MMR. 2v8 needs survivor classes that actually feel unique (ritualist, chest-hunter, meatshield, etc.), and maps that aren’t just stretched 1v4 arenas. Otherwise it’ll always feel like ‘bigger DbD,’ not ‘better DbD.’
This is why I keep saying 2v8 either needs to be spun off into its own proper game or rebuilt from the ground up. Band-aids won’t stop people from getting bored, because the mode is basically an exaggeration of base DbD’s problems. Right now it’s just duct-tape chaos — fun for a weekend, stale after a month.
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Oh, killers definitely have advocates on the dev team — Legion mains. How else do you explain Susie getting cosmetics that look more like they belong on a survivor than a killer? 😂 It’s like BHVR can’t decide whether Legion is supposed to be scary (it isn't) or just a dress-up doll, and somehow that gets priority over fixing actual killer gameplay.
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Don’t remove killer — just streamline the experience. Make Legion and Plague the only options. Their powers don’t kill survivors, they just bore them into giving up. Forget chases, the real win condition is forcing everyone to DC out of sheer despair.
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2v8 isn’t just “unbalanced,” it’s an exaggeration of every single flaw in the base game.
Aura spam? That’s just basekit information creep on steroids.
Random killer comps stepping on each other? That’s the “random killer = random experience” problem magnified times two.
MMR making matches feel like coin flips? Same issue as 1v4, just louder because now you’ve got 7 teammates instead of 3.
And Legion being in 90% of games? Proof BHVR would rather let unfun design fester than actually take a stance.2v8 could’ve been the mode that leaned into DbD’s supposed horror anthology identity. Build modular maps. Give survivors unique archetypes. Let killers synergize instead of tripping over each other. Basically: commit to making it its own thing.
Instead, what we got is just base DbD duct-taped into a bigger sandbox, which makes every crack in the foundation impossible to ignore. Pallet stuns not working, killers desyncing, aura spam, Legion being… Legion.
That’s why I keep saying 2v8 should be spun off into its own game, or at the very least rebuilt from the ground up. Otherwise it’ll never feel like “chaotic horror” and will just keep sliding further into “chaotic mess.”
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This reminds me — Legion is the perfect example of BHVR’s identity crisis. Legion exists, isn’t horror, and isn’t fun — yet they’re still in the game (both 2v8 and 1v4). Why? Because BHVR can point to Legion matches (which either drag on forever in 1v4 or collapse instantly in 2v8) and say “see, survivors aren’t always the power role.” And sure, survivors could win, but most would rather give up than slog through a boring Legion match where the only thing guaranteed is frustration.
But that’s not balance, that’s bad design. Survivors don’t feel powerful against Legion — they feel bored. Killers don’t feel clever playing Legion — they feel cheap. And yet BHVR keeps killers like Legion (and others like Plague, Ghoul, etc.) as a get-out-of-jail card to deflect survivor-sided complaints. It’s a lose/lose: survivors hate it, killers hate it, and the game drags itself down.
Honestly, the solution is to admit that powers built entirely around “free injure with no counterplay” just aren’t it. At least Nurse or Blight can down you outright — playing every match as if you’re permanently Exposed isn’t fun for anyone.
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Yeah, 100% agreed. Legion just doesn’t work in 2v8 — the entire design is anti-fun in that mode, and the fact that BHVR hasn’t recognized it yet really says a lot. Removing Legion would’ve been the simplest quality-of-life fix they could make, but instead they’re doubling down, which feels like they’re siding with the tiny group of Legion mains instead of the majority of players who hate going against them.
It’s not about “balance numbers,” it’s about experience. 2v8 was supposed to be the fresh chaotic mode, and keeping Legion in undermines that completely. BHVR missing such an obvious step makes it hard not to feel like they’re out of touch with their own game.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989079#Comment_3989079
In what horror movie do the victims pick the person hunting them and killing their friends? You're asking for something that quite literally goes against a horror experience.
Horror movies also don’t have bloodpoint grinds, perk loadouts, or Halloween cosmetics, but DbD makes those compromises because it’s a game. Nobody’s asking to pick specific killers — the point is giving players some agency so it feels less like a slot machine. Anthologies curate their stories for tone, DbD doesn’t. Right now you can go from Freddy to Trickster to Legion in back-to-back matches, which kills immersion. Filters or categories wouldn’t remove the horror element, they’d strengthen it by letting players lean into the kind of horror vibe they actually want instead of getting Fortnite-with-gens whiplash every other round.
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@Crowman said:
The killer being random is hardly the problem with DBD. And even then it's not really random as much as which killers people are queueing up as since you are facing another player.
Hey, you're technically right—killers aren't random since players pick their killer and build. But that misses the point for survivors, especially in solo queue. From our perspective, it's a roulette wheel. We have zero control over what killer or build we face, and that unpredictability can make matches feel like a coin flip, not a horror experience. The lack of survivor agency is the real issue here, not whether killers choose their loadout. Any thoughts on how BHVR could balance that without breaking the game?
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987721#Comment_3987721
Nurse and Blight are two of forty killers. Compare him to other killers. How about Billy, who's hard to steer and easy to miss hits with. Or Legion, who loses his speed-heavy ability if he misses a hit. Or Wesker, who completely flings himself out of chase if he fumbles a grab with his dash.
Or take teleporters like The Unknown, who is much more balanced with spread out teleport locations that can be removed by survivors. Or Dredge, whose locker can be locked. Or Sadako, whose TVs you can turn off. The worst that happens to Clown is he has to reload, and that takes minimal time.
Balance can't be based on average players (40% escape rate) playing in the average way (soloq) with average-quality, non-meta perks? You said killers need to be balanced around the whole game environment and not just one loadout, but you're using exhaustion perks as an example of counterplay.
Blight's dashes aren't guarantees of anything, except that he'll briefly move forward at least once. You can dodge him like a charging bull. He can also miss his bounces. You can avoid Nurse with erratic movements. With an accelerated Clown running haste perks you're just screwed. There's nothing you can do if you're beteen tiles. He just needs one available bottle to flatten you.
Saying Nurse and Blight would shred every match is kinda inaccurate. I win against both those killers regularly and, as I said, I'm average. If they're 5k hour Blights/Nurses, sure I'm dead, but that's because they're good. I'm getting killed by p1 Clowns who are picking him up for the first time. That's not balanced.
I'm not sure how you can use the term "healthy" when the consensus towards him has been mass misery. Even Clown mains have expressed discontent.
Hey, appreciate the detailed reply — let me address a couple things:
- On comparisons to other killers: Billy can miss, Legion loses power on a miss, Wesker can fling himself out of chase — true. But the same applies to Clown: if you misplace your bottles or reload at the wrong time, you lose pressure. His kit isn’t “no downside,” it’s just finally not clunky anymore.
- On Blight/Nurse counterplay: Dodging Blight “like a bull” or juking Nurse with erratic movement works against inexperienced players — but once those killers are practiced, their tools are guaranteed gap closers. Clown’s haste has a delay, a duration, and is tied to limited bottles. It’s not the same level of inevitability.
- On “average players can’t counter Clown”: Balance can’t only look at perkless soloq experiences. If it did, every killer would feel oppressive. Survivors do have tools: pre-dropping pallets, baiting throws, breaking line of sight, forcing reloads. Exhaustion perks are just one piece, not the whole argument.
- On “mass misery” consensus: Forum threads often amplify frustration, but that doesn’t mean everyone hates the changes. Plenty of killers — and even survivors — have said this is the first time Clown has felt worth playing. It’s not universal misery, it’s just louder here.
Bottom line: Clown isn’t Nurse or Blight. Survivors can still counterplay him, but now he can actually contest space and feel viable instead of being one of the least-picked killers in the game. That’s a healthier outcome than reverting him back to bottom tier.
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@cogsturning said:
He needed a rework, yes, but this rework just ain't it. Nurse and Blight both take finesse to control. I can't even hit a bot that's standing still with Nurse. Clown moves smooth AND fast. There has to be a cut somewhere. If he's going to be that fast for that long, he at least needs to be harder to control. The bottles are too plentiful and the reload is fast. Currently, anyone can hop on Clown and steamroll better players. I know because I gave it a whirl when the changes first dropped. If I used only the yellow bottles, I was unstoppable, and I wasn't even using haste perks. If I used both bottles, I could still lose. Problem is, almost every new Clown has abandoned the pinks. I rarely see them used. And it sucks cause I used to like both playing as him and against him, and now I hear that first bottle smash and I'm instantly miserable. And he's just too embarrassing for me to play as right now.
And survivors can counter with exhaustion perks (the very perks killers endlessly whine about) is not the best argument. I don't run exhaustion perks. I'm not a looping pro. I dont bring flashlights. Soloq isn't coordinateed. That's cool that 4-man sweats can beat him but what am I supposed to do with my Plot Twist and Scene Partner? Die. The answer is die.
Hey, I hear you — I get that Clown feels oppressive if you’re used to facing the old, clunkier version. But a couple of clarifications:
- On “smooth and fast”: Clown’s speed is conditional. Yellow bottles only last a few seconds, they take setup, and they cost you reloads. If you spam them without managing reloads or placement, you lose momentum. It’s not the same as having guaranteed dashes or teleports like Blight or Nurse.
- On pink bottles: Survivors saying “nobody uses them anymore” is actually a sign the buff worked — players are finally experimenting with both options. Pink is still valuable for anti-loop and mindgames, but yellow is what makes him actually able to contest space. That doesn’t make him broken, it makes him worth playing.
- On survivor tools: Exhaustion perks are just one counter. Pre-dropping pallets, faking vaults, breaking line of sight, and wasting his bottles are all valid plays. Even without flashlights or 4-man coordination, survivors still have options to punish bad throws and long reloads.
- On solo queue: I know soloq feels rough sometimes — but balance can’t be based on whether someone brings Plot Twist or Scene Partner. If killers were tuned around perkless casual builds, Nurse/Blight would shred every match instantly. Mid-tier killers need to be balanced for the whole game environment, not just one loadout.
At the end of the day, Clown is finally playable without being top tier. Survivors who adapt to his timing and manage space will still outlast him, but now he can actually pressure instead of being a meme pick. That’s a healthier spot for everyone.