cogsturning
cogsturning
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018151#Comment_4018151
It'd be good to get clarification from the devs on this, but they've said in the past that games where someone DCs are voided. So I would assume that killing the resulting bot would not be considered an official kill. The game is just a wash basically. This makes sense if you consider how often people used to DC against Nurse, yet her official killrates have never been crazy high. I don't think it incentivises DCs because there's always been downsides, such as DC penalties, plus the survivor also voids and wastes their own game - they lose bp, emblems, no MMR gains, loss of grades, etc. So it's always in someone's best interest to not DC.
This is also likely why abandons apparently aren't counted either, because it's likely just a blanket setting that killing a bot does not affect MMR at all. We also know that MMR gains and losses are also effected by the MMR level of your opponent - you get more gains for killing someone in a higher bracket than you do for killing someone in a lower bracket, for example - and since bots don't have personal MMRs, the system has no means of determining gains or losses.
Ill add that I'm not a developer or have any understanding of this stuff, my posts are purely just based on info the devs have shared in the past.
If a match is voided from a DC or an abandon, that should be loudly and publicly known to everyone. Like there should be a message on the leaderboard. There's your anti-tunnel right there. The survivors can use DCs as a threat to cut off an opponents progress if the killer is acting out. Same with egerious slugging and abandons. Though I'd much rather have something built into the game than a secret punishment system.
@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016849#Comment_4016849
Quite impressive stats for dredge @cogsturning
OFFTOPIC:
Do you mind sharing few builds you use on her? I am dredge player myself and looking for good/cool builds right now.
I really believe abandonned matches should count IF people have the option to abandon. We need to fix that on stats page
I've been using a variation of the same build on everyone with good results:
Franklin's and Weave for aura read. Lightborn becuase I always use it. You can switch it, but people generally assume someone running Franklin's isn't running Lightborn so I get a ton of hits that way. The fourth is either Thanatophobia or Forced Hesitation. For Dredge, it's usually Thanatophobia, but Forced combined with the aura read from the Weave is also fantatsic, becuase a Franklin's-discarded medkit laying near a recent down shows you a potential savior hiding nearby and Forced makes them too slow to react to you. For add-ons, the recorder usually gets me an early game down, and the microphone let's me get a read on people's general directions by just doing a quick triple teleport to whichever nearby lockers.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018123#Comment_4018123
Then i suppose they could count games with one abandon as a kill? I dont agree with DCs counting as kills though. I think that would be detrimental to killers and game balancing.
Do DCs not count as kills for the killer personally or just for that survivor? I always thought they did count as deaths. So if you DC right before dying you can dodge a death? That's incentiving DCs. I just don't understand why a loss isn't a loss. It's seems simple to me. If those are the true numbers, they needed to be counted. If you can press a button for free hatch why even bother trying to play in end game?
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018100#Comment_4018100
I honestly hate this idea that some killers are "weak." I play alot of the killers that people consider "weak" but imo they're just more challenging than others and I prefer that. Some of us dont mind a challenge. Alot of the more recent killers don't require alot of effort to succeed, so there's something for everyone. But I'm probably in the minority for that.
I never know which killers people even mean when they say this. Different killlers are just different.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017826#Comment_4017826
If they're counted as deaths then the official killrate will go up. And we'd be in the same situation as today with people asking about the accuracy, especially since we know kill rates influence balance changes. I think they should fix the personal stats with a different visual for abandons (instead of an escape) so people feel more confident with their stats. That one should be easy enough.
But if you abandon during a mori or on the hook, you did, in fact, die, you just left before the animation went through. If those are being counted as non-deaths, than the game is even more unbalanced than we think in favor of killers. The question (that no one is showing up to answer) is whether or not this goes beyond personal stats into official numbers and MMR.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018088#Comment_4018088
the reason why survivors dont lose mmr for pressing the abandon button is because they dont want to encourage killers to slug more to force abandons so its neutral.
For a four-man slugfest, sure, but that's not the norm for the abandon feature's use. If you're in a normal, non-sluggy match, two people are left, one is on hook, and the other gets downed, they can immediately both abandon, as is the case in most of my matches. And if there's just one left, they can abandon during the mori. Those are hard losses. They should count as such. If not, a massive chunk of survivor deaths are being thrown out.
Looking at my last matches—which there were seven of—there are 6 abandons, all of them the last person to die. And weirdly, two escape that I'm positive were kills. I recall the matches. This is one of them:
It was a 4k, but for some mysterious reason Leon shows as escaped. The Mikaela was a genuine DC. Claudette was the last to die. Is that three free passes for them, for no reason? If 25% or more of my opponents receive get-out-of-jail free cards for being the last one or two to die, that's a massive problem with the numbers and the MMR and makes zero sense.
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@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017904#Comment_4017904
(I'm going to regret this...)
I think it's pretty safe to say that BHVR's way of tracking stats is much different (and far more detailed) than the official stat tracker that we can use to track our trials.
In streams/AMA in the past, some devs would sometimes mention winrate for a specific map, for example. They have methods of tracking that are different and more precise.
The official page should just be shut down then, if it's completely wrong. The only visuals we have to give examples and prove points are these stats that might be extremely inaccurate. And they'd only be falsely inflating the egos of survivors who hit abandon all the time.
But they specifically mentioned MMR in the response and that's way more worrying. The matchmaking will never be anything better than a disaster if you can just abandon and delete your losses.
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Three gens within a minute? So everyone on this hypothetical team has a juiced up toolbox and a gen build instead of the very common exhaustion/speed/second chance builds and medkits that I always see?
You GUARANTEE Weaving Spider's every third match? Which game are you playing? Because I see WS like evey 300 games. And when I do, I usually win.
And changes go both ways. Streetwise was a great gen perk and they reworked it into uselessness. Killers recently got the hook counter. OTR and Tenacity were nerfed. I want everyone to take aggro but if someone wants to bring a stealth build, why shouldn't they? Why does everyone want things to stay so meta and samey?
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I don't currently run Lethal and I bet you I just breeze right past survivors all the time lol. Actually blows my mind how often I spawn in the killer's terror radius as surv.
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Is Shoulder the Burden an anti-tunnel perk, and Reassurance an anti-camping perk? Or do the perks just exist and people use them how they wish? Shoulder is such a dangerous perk to use that I don't see why you'd want it nerfed. I've instadowned and gotten an immediate double hook on so many people because of it. Reassurance is strategic sure, but if you're not camping, who cares? Their teammate is not useful on the hook. Go gen patrolling. Get to the active players.
Also not sure why toolboxes need a downside. Items generally don't have one, fog vials being the biggest exception. Most killer add-ons don't have downsides and some are super strong.
And I agree with the above about gen builds. I bring a toolbox with BtL because I'm not a great looper. Gens are what I'm good for. Would you rather me bring that or a bunch of second chance and exhaustion perks? I was using fog vials for their one beautiful week of usefulness with a completely different build and that got shut down real fast. If we keep dismantling perks and items, we will have even less variety and a more and more narrowed meta.
Also, if any sort of meaningful anti-tunnel ever does come, it will likely bring with it a lot of perk changes. As it is, OTR and Teancity were nerfed over changes we never even got, so I don't think they'll hesitate to nuke survivor perks. But let me see this anti-tunnel first.
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@Skeleton23 said:
Uhm did everyone not here that I quit DBD right? Meaning I haven't touched the game like at all. Which means I dont have the states to say this.
I used to but not anymore. When someone says they quit it means they don't have the states. Plus this was my opinion/rant. Ive moved to other games.
Your stats don't disappear cause you aren't currently playing. You have overalls.
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@blackmoonrealex said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017857#Comment_4017857
I’ve been a killer main for such a long time, but now that I’ve dived many hours into survivor, it’s been such a miserable experience as one.
Yeah, making builds are fun…the cosmetics are amazing…improving chases and looping are really interesting, but these things go right out the window when tunneling and slugging run rampant. I never had to do these things as killer; why are they so prominent? Also the fact that there’s no room for solo play - if even one teammate messes up, it’s over for the whole team.
We need more objectives. Diversify the game a bit. Lessen the gens. Give us a car with parts to find. Give us the hatch at the beginning and we have to try to open it. Have the last survivor fight the killer like what actually happens at the end of every horror movie. This game could really be something special.
I never knew they were so bad as killer either until I started playing surv. Word has spread that these are the winning methods so people do them, and they don't care how it makes people feel.
But yo, let me fight the killer fr
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I'd try it but I probably wouldn't stick with it. I feel you'd see a lot less variety, as survivors would be chosen for, most likely, exhaustion perks, and killers with strong perks would be favored. None of my mains would be super appealing to me.
What could make it more interesting is combining it with the Chaos Shuffle concept, but it's the characters who are shuffled. Choose survivor, and you'll get a random survivor with their three perks. Same for killlers.
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This seems like an easy enough fix if it's completely screwing up stats and MMR. Abandons and DCs count as deaths/losses. Full stop. But now I feel I can't trust a single person's survivor stats except my own because I don't abandon or DC.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017335#Comment_4017335
We could run a custom later if you have time, so that we can get footage.
Glad they moved on it quick
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@Munky said:
LoL OP being downvoted for probably that one sentence, which i whole heartedly agree with. "Survivor feels like easy mode". Sorry dude this is a survivor sided forum.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017454#Comment_4017454
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4NJIWCQZRCVN/stats-kate-30d.jpg
It might not be 80% ER like you asked, but neither does the average killer get anywhere near that KR. Anyway, I think I am not the only one that can link a screenshot with such ridiculous survivor stats right now... The game in the current chapter is extremely surivor sided, unless you go up against S/A Tier killers. Literally every big streamer is saying that exact same thing… but y'all be contrary ;)
I'm only half serious about that. After the recent post asking if abandons count as deaths (and it appears they don’t) was ignored, I don't really trust survivor stats anymore.
But I think it's the whole thing. This person says they don't play much surv but calls it easy. "I quit" posts also aren't helpful, and what does not playing how you want even mean? What can't you do that you could before?
But hey, I can also drop this and say "KiLlEr iS eAsY mOdE"
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@Nazzzak said:
I havent seen it yet, but I assumed he was like a creature with tendrils that wears people's skin?
I always thought it was a mimic that failed the assignment.
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Show me your 80%+ ER as easy mode survivor.
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Very curious to know which survivor skin is the cry baby one.
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Someone needs to go into customs and get some footage of this. This is even worse than than the Sreetwise bug if it's consistently occurring and has no trigger.
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@Boingo said:
I...think when they said they fixed weapons obstruction I think they only meant the community skin only cause that's fixed
They should have said that skin specifically then, but they said "some of".
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Whoa what?
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Sucks if you unlock a skin with tons of shards or money only to find out it's going to handicap you. I wonder how the ghost one from the Rift is looking now.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017053#Comment_4017053
I just message people "ggs" or "thanks for hatch", "thanks for saving me in end game."
I wasn't aware psn would be upset. I've only been a PlayStation player for a year. I was on Switch before.
If you're saying friendly stuff it's fine but never, ever say anything even remotely hostile.
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Classic Ghoul. And I thought my event matches were bad. The Void is already a death trap. You shouldn't be able to do this for a lengthy time. Hook denials are almost a zero chance in the Void.
I gave the killers their easy wins to do the Quests and that's it for me and that godforsaken Void.
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I absolutely could never. I need to hear every sound.
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For context: I'm not a main anything. My 30 day numbers are 178 survivor matches with a 48% ER and 218 killler matches with an 80% KR. So I'm currently playing an even amount of both and doing decently. I haven't done any soloqing in months and don't plan to without changes, because thats where the suffering lives. I have no complaints as killer, but as survivor I have a few, and they revolve around this topic. I actually don't think what many people call tunneling and slugging matches my definitions, or I guess, my grievances. It's not every match, as many claim. I also think pretty much anything goes at 1 gen or end game if the killer is doing bad.
Hard tunneling is when someone sets out, from the get-go, to shove the first unlucky player they see out of the match, and ignores every other person, even when handed free downs from them as they try to protect their teammate. This is what I consider problematic tunneling.
My issue with it, aside from it sucking to be that target if you're back in the lobby with 6k points, is that it's the easiest path to the cheapest win. It tells me the killler is unable or unwilling to spread pressure properly and has to handicap the team to win. You're immedialty displaying your inability to handle the four opponenents the game is designed around having in play. Hard tunneling at 5 gens is embarrassing. There's also no survivor equivalent. There's nothing I can do as survivor to insure a win 1 or 2 minutes into a match in a similar fashion. I've had many great and impressive opponents but I've never once thought someone who hard tunneled was skillful.
As killler, I don't ever set out to tunnel. The exceptions for me, personally, is if the person is inviting my attention. If you click your flashlight, BM, and repeatedly sabo or body block--in other words, if you're really aggressive--then I will stop being chill and match your energy. So in order to be targeted by me, you must earn it.
Slugging is actually a bigger issue to me than tunneling because tunneling can backfire terribly if you choose the wrong target and it's at least interactive. The only way to recover from mass slugging is to either 1) have the right perks or 2) have great team plays, which is particularly hard for soloqers.
Slugging is a contagious tactic. I started the game as a killler-only player. I had zero external interaction with this game. No videos, no streamers, no social media (that's still the case, aside from this forum.) I just played the game in isolation. At no point did it ever occur to me to slug. It wasn't until I started playing survivor that I experienced tunneling and slugging. I didn't understand why they were leaving me on the ground, and why I couldn't fill up the bar and stand up. I still don't understand why 30s can pass and I can't stand up. The 90s from the ptb wasn't quite good enough for me. If you can't pick up your slug in 30s-45s you deserve to lose the down. People should be able to reengage with the game at that point. You can always chase them again.
But I don't consider checking the area and breaking a pallet slugging. They don't need to pick you up the very moment you hit the ground. That's sometimes a foolish move. I will also sometimes put someone in timeout with slugging. If you get unhooked and hop onto the closest gen still injured, I might do this, because I don't want to tunnel you but you're also dumb and it's time to spend some time kissing the ground and thinking about your choices.
Many people claim hook denials as a reason for egerious slugging. If hook denials tilt you so hard, bring a build for them. They do, in fact, tilt me that hard, and my current build not just makes them pretty much impossible but detrimental to the potential savior/s. I can't remember the last time someone successfully sabotaged me, but there's been many a game-deciding attempt in my favor. You dont need to slug, just use the altruism against them.
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He's pretty okay to deal with against an average player. If anything, I'd like the doors modified to either be a little further away from gens or temporarily blockable, like Dredge's lockers or Sadako'a TVs, but I'm not stressed about it.
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Honestly surprised you even found two PS users who don't have their messaging restricted. 90% of what I try to send gets cut off by messaging locks.
I got the hook one done in one session but the survivor ones were terrible. Killers were downing me at the well. Like please just let survivors craft it first, then down them. I died four matches in a row with little to show for it before a tunneling Dracula turned friendly. But it seriously sucked until then. You shouldn't have to feel the need to farm to get this stuff accomplished, or to lose a bunch of matches in the process just for the Quests.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016935#Comment_4016935
Yes, this was a topic of discussion that happened shortly after the site opened. We know from the devs that hatch is considered null and doesn't affect official escape rates, yet it counts in personal ones. Whether that was intentional or not hasn't been confirmed, but abandons obviously are a whole different story.
I recall some of that, as well as the leaderboards that show abandon-bots getting super-scores being confirmed to be a false visual bug. The potential that abandons count as neutral escapes is bad considering how often and casually people do it (when they absolutely lost, at that), but it's the inclusion of MMR in this screenshot that has me particularly worried. I now want to know exactly what does what.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016931#Comment_4016931
I think they're only counting as escapes, currently, on people's personal stats page. I think hatch does as well. This was something people were pointing out when the site first opened, either overlooked by the devs or they had no other visual representation to use at that stage but will hopefully change in future
If it's just personal stats and isn't affecting the true global stats or MMR then its whatever, but it also nullifies our personal stats in regards to accuracy. This would make them worthless for using as examples of anything if abandons count as escapes.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016910#Comment_4016910
I think abandon = null and void, much like hatch escapes
But those count as escapes on stats and neutral on MMR, so your ER goes up but your MMR doesn't. That's all well and good if you found the hatch, but that means anyone who presses yhe abandon gets free hatch, inflated stats, and no MMR loss despite losing the match. If you're a rat who always dies last your MMR coud potentially never go down if you abandon as soon as your downed.
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@Duncan_Ellis said:
Quite frankly after the fiasco at TwitchCon, BHVR should start distancing themselves from Twitch anyway.
I looked this up and wow. I'm disappointed there wasn't at least some mob justice but the guy just left. I recently saw an uplifting video from Japan where a whole crowd dog piled a subway groper/upskirter until the police came and one smidgen of my hope for humanity was briefly restored.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
Oh that's awful if true, we are never going to have a more enjoyable experience for both sides so long as the abandon option exists coz if they are balancing off stats, their is no point.
It also means the official stats they released recently could be very innacruate, I'm pretty concerned about this ngl.It's really concerning. Killers don't have nearly as many DCs/abandons so their numbers won't be terribly affected, but if the stats award every survivor who abandons a free escape (or simply no death) than the true survivor stats have to be drastically lower than what we're seeing with how frequently those abandons occur. It also means MMR is completely out of whack.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016838#Comment_4016838
Well then tell why isnt option to talk to other players as survivor in the game already if it was meant to played with it?
They intended many things like killer powers to perks to be more fit for soloq than swf with coms in old DBD. Only thing that will ever break the gab between soloq and swf in something like push to talk option or some wallhacks like basekit 24/7 kindread but ability to speak and tell each other things is the main power source of swf the ability to share information and plan things togeather is what makes them successful and so scary for most killer players (if killer players could see in the lobby who plays with who like duos and 3 man,4 man swf they would skip these lobbyes quite often but luckily for 4man swf they dont see it).
If comms affect the game it would be balanced around the possibility of comms whether they meant to or not simply because they exist and they'd be changing match outcomes. If that's the case, its likey the balance is struck by solos being less likely to succeed than SWF and thus intentionally handicapped with less info.
That's if you think comms are that big of a deal. I play on comms and my ER is pretty mediocre. It depends on both the players' skills and how they approach their matches.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016582#Comment_4016582
Tunneling is tactic, its not nice but it works well and if it was unintended feature devs would alredy nerf it to the ground or almost remove it (skullmerchant it) like many other things.
You can as survivor just go to the killer and let him down you or hook you, all 4 survivors can do it and skip the game without dc but as killer you cant unless survivors dont dc or just hide for 10 minutes witout touching a gen so abandon for killer when gates are opened or even powered is fair but then again I get you want to tbag the hell out of the frustrated killer in exitgate area to feel good about it because he cant do a thing to harm you only dc and that harms him too so I get why are so many “survivor ejoyer” against it. Now put that downvote here because my post isnt survivor sided.
Who is "you" exactly because you're responding to me and I don't BM as either role.
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Yes, can we please get an official in here to clarify some of this?
Does a survivor DCing or abandoning rob a killer of their kill increase? And why would it not count as a death for someone who was a second away from the loss?
Does a killer DCing as survivors are about to run out the gates count as a win for those survivors? If not, why is that, when they were about to win and did nothing wrong?
Does this mean personal and global stats aren't reflective of the game as a whole?
And about MMR, if a survivor abandons every match they would have died in, wouldn't that raise their MMR undeservedly by ignoring their deaths and only counting their wins?
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I'm happy that someone is happy about this Rift.
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I don't have a Twitch account and don't want one. So far nothing has been compelling enough for me to change that. Maybe a full cosmetic set for my main could make me fall in line but I wont feel good about it.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016840#Comment_4016840
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0XELJ7U7QS1O/image.jpeg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/B7MLNPFS697C/image.jpeg
The abandoned games even show up differently on the Recent Match History section of the official stat tracker.The top 3 icons are normal, where they say Dead, Sacrificed, or Escaped. The bottom icon has zero words, because I pressed the abandon button that game, and the official stat tracker decided to not count that game.
Anyone can try this out for themselves, and check what their Recent Match History page looks like after they use the abandon button.
Then maybe this affects the survivors numbers and not the killers? I don't use the abandon button hardly ever so I have no idea what it does or what it looks like, but that might explain some of the numbers I've seen on soloqers that seem unlikely to me.
The upper isn't the mori dead though, it's the bleedout. That one, as I understand, doesn't count towards killler stats because that's not what you're supposed to do.
This is just from my last ten matches:
This is actually kinda less than normal. Yet this is my monthly with that killler:
I probbaly average one abandon per match. I shouldn't be able to get more than a 75%, maybe, if the abandons don't count. And that's if I 4ked every match, which I don't.
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For killer, hours-wise, it's Wesker, because I started playing this game after his inclusion and that's all I cared about for a long time. DbD was an extension of RE Mercenaries for me for a long while. I barely play as him now. I don't really have a main anymore. I like to hop around.
When I started playing survivor, I wanted someone I didn't see every single match, so I picked Felix. That, and he kinda looks like Wesker but normal, so it's like I was playing an alternate reality version of the same guy. I also play as Elodie because her and Felix are connected. Ace is for memeing. Sometimes Vittorio too.
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I don't see how this can be. My killler matches pretty much always have an abandon or two at the end, yet my stats are still fine. Some of my monthly numbers are close to 90% on some killers. That shouldn't even be a possible number if half of my kills aren't counting.
I'll have to start writing them down and comparing them, I guess.
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@tjt85 said:
I think he'd probably have to be a Survivor. I'd like a properly evil Survivor in the game one day (though I suppose we already have a few bad eggs).
What would his power be as a Killer? It might be funny to see him reanimating angry pet cats to attack the Survivors Houndmaster style, but that's pretty much all I can think of.
I feel like he'd be like Blight with the syringes and the glowing theme but yeah, he's too much of a normal man. He could have zombies but Nemesis has those. Like you said, the pet thing is taken by Houndmaster. I'd like to have Norman Bates but he's also just a dude with a knife. These characters are tricky with how excessive and over-the-top killers have become.
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I'd figure him as a killer but I guess if Taurie can be a survivor so could he.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016559#Comment_4016559
Sorry, but again — it’s a huge difference between saying you don’t really care, and from day to day post stuff with same sentiment about some people doing x game. Claiming you are unserious and then behaving opposite way have differences.
I made snarky remarks about that too and it was dead people pictures.
It was SUCH unnecessary detail about your personality that simply doesn’t make your words look better if not even worse.
If in your reality person who really “don’t care” writes me such long posts in this thread just to try to explain his position, and then continues to write the same type of stuff where he hates that some part of people ruined game for so long period of time, I barely would believe it in this. Saying you're not serious when you make comments like this doesn't paint your position in a good light, it only makes it ugly idk…
I bet you would speak completely different if some person on this forum would mirror your behaviour and targetting casual players. Especially when you make it under orher people posts making it either off topic (just to unnecessary pushing your itch in comment), or when making it under posts where OP is usually pretty serious, because well, people going on forums for expressing concerns and feeling about sth. And here you are “unserious” man calling someone cringe and buzzkillers.
I don't understand why your comments stop portraying you as someone who can't stand a certain group of players just because you're now trying to cover it up with your unserious attitude. It's like everything has gotten a hundred times worse to me if you're so flippant about the game and still manage to talk about certain people like that just because :/ It either real oblivious happening here, or “I don’t care” become an argument to step back just to pretend words you are writing not showing you in a way that doesn’t benefit to the discussion for your side.
Ok.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015314#Comment_4015314
i dont have to deal with it because
1.i tunnel and slug and do anything possible to make sure it doesnt happen
2. if i do lose i just go round breaking pallets and walls to gain BP….if survivors want to be petty and try to BM me all they are doing is buying me more time to break pallets.
getting tunneled is a tactic used to win the game….t bagging at the gate doesnt help people win. its purely toxic behaviour that happens all too often and pushes me to play in a way that survivors dont like. if you wonder why killers tunnel so hard for no reason….thats your reason….to make sure people cant tbag at the gate.
You go from saying tunneling is a tactic to admitting someone squatting rapidly tilts you so hard you tunnel as a form of indiscriminate pre-retribution. So which is it? A cold-blooded winning strategy or an emotional response? Do killers want an abandon option because the game is over or because their feelings are hurt?
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Matches? Plural? Against Twins?
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I've managed to probably get 100 hooks in the Void at this point. People are going in quite a lot. Probably to do the survivor Quests, which I don't know how I'm going to get done. Craft ten crystals? Are you kidding? I can't even live long enough to make one. I will have to throw all my matches to try and do this.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016541#Comment_4016541
Because gameplay evolve around casual players Ghoul and Krasue appeared. No, don’t even ask me to support such vision of the game. I would never appreciate it because it’s always people asking “balance around lower tiers” on one side only.
If it didn’t touch you, you never would defend such position. Many of your posts that I've seen literally had the direct speech of "try hards cringe," "sweats ruined event," "sweats spoiled that”. Context shows that you actually care A LOT about competitive people. Because you often try to oppose yourself to them. Maybe you simply don't realize how months of reading some of your posts on this forum changed the whole context about perceiving your claims for me.
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Hating going against some character just because of the way how people play doesn’t correlate with your words that it’s not bothering you. I doubt you can convince me otherwise simply by saying "no it isn't". I’m pretty sure you even can’t realise how this look from perspective of person less chill than you.
Stop expecting win or fun against player who doesn’t handicap themselves by chill behaviour is actually showing that other way of play doesn’t bother person. They will dominate, it doesn’t provide you an excuse to ask for free tools.
If person doesn’t match my vibe, I don’t go to forum to tell about that and how they spoil x thing by their attitude. I thought “I don’t care” usually work like this.Is this supposed to be a gotcha? Do you think I'm not aware that you can see what I say? And do you think these little quips define my views? It's not a real discussion, it's just bs. I told you privately and I'll say it again for the 5 people reading this: I'm rarely serious. My tone is sarcastic, hyperbolic, and exaggerated. I don't take a single thing on the internet seriously. Did you catch the gore post awhile back? I made snarky remarks about that too and it was dead people pictures. Nothing is serious to me (but in the darkest most nihilistic way possible) and you're too literal and stoic to catch it. Believe me or don't. You can dislike me and think I'm a hypocrite or crybaby whatever. I don't have any problem with you. But we're different in probably a lot more ways than just our views on gaming and we're not likely to connect, and that's fine.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016434#Comment_4016434
The hook states mention isn't about you specifically, it's a general example. My point is that a very handoldy buff quietly comes to killler--one that was clearly meant to be part of the anti-tunnel--and the killers just rub their greedy hands together
Why using this arguement in our convo anyway? Do I support this? No. What’s it makes with my words or how it gives more weight to anti tunnel proposal? It’s just even more support my position about tag war and that people fight over it rather than actual balancing, and that it should stop.
I don't think these people are a good reflection of anything though. Even if the skill is even, they're too high-performing
To shut down this high performing they playing with heavy restrictions that you would never see in ordinary match. It’s not about what BHVR looking at. It’s about should balance look like this. It’s about what it shows. It shows you can’t play without tunnel on high level. In their matches you actually can see how balancing work.
So looking from your own perspective. Should highly difficult mechanics killers be removed only because they aren’t for casuals? Can you do this? Can you delete nurse? Can you delete SFW in this game? Spread up, gen efficiency? Everything that usualy defines highly effective play? This game stopped being party game as soon as Nurse arrived and first comp appeared . Do you like it or not, it’s a fact. What makes tunneling so special that “you shouldn’t orient on what high play needs/use”, but as soon as something else that benefiting survivors on high play you don’t ask for it to be removed at the same time? Like sfw… oh yeah, maybe because you are playing sfw yourself. Just don’t use its actual advantage most of the time. But why people have to handicap themselves as much as you do? Just because? Why me not handicapping other players on this forum demanding playing without meta or on simple killers?
People should stop complaining on high perforimg play. It always be people simply better in this game and do you like it or not, they know this game better than you. It’s fine to complain on gap between players and asking to make it less evident. It’s not fine doing it through enforcing handicapping and constant shaming . You can adjust initial mechanics only, but touching way of play - it’s not a nice way and pure tribalism and personal hate. And that thing that u put some imaginitive numbers of 5% of survivors being on top cap just shows how you want to highlight that your opinion suddenly should matter more just because in advance.
It’s not sweats ruined your matches. It’s either you can’t adapt to them and demanding them to change instead, either matchmaking being bad, if you like this “adaptation” arguement so much. Or two stuff at the same time. How antitunnel deal with it? Yet again… Doesn’t . Just additional figure to this equation.
But what is and isn't handholdy? Iri add-ons? Endurance and exhaustion perks? Exposed and aura perks? Bloodlust? The whole damn game is handholdy. I can't tell you how often I've won killer matches because of perks, and I'm not running meta. Survivor, not so much. That's more small, immediate advantages, at least for me.
Handholding is when you expecting game dealing with sweats through mechanics by artificially restricting them and not adjusting your tools. It’s by always relying on items and strong tiers . Handholding is playing Ghoul and expecting hight rates just because he is simple and strong , if you want more precise example.
Handholding is wanting/choosing something and expecting it’ll deal with what you want. Making tunneling unattractive or less effective not through the play, but just… because. Handholding is expecting try hards to get easy on you just because you play game differently and blaming them in the way how they play, expecting game deal with your frustration by restricting other side or even punishing.
And again. Do anti tunnel deal with stuff that considered op/handholding? S tiers? Flaws in balances? Do anti tunnel dealing with anything beside tunneling being frustrating? It’s like asking for Ghoul to stay as it is because it’s harder to play on Nurse and Blight for you, but you want something close to their effectiveness. Yes, it’s less frustrating to deal with necessity of improving in micro/macro, to outplay opponents . You don’t need to deal with busted items or serious sfws that much as others, yet mechanically it stays as simple as some Ghostface or Wraith. Does it make Ghoul less braindead or about balancing? No. It’s initial mechanic.
Adapting only seems to be expected of survivors.
This thread already showed that many players expecting this from killers when themselves barely adapting. To what additional thing survivors had to adapt? Where I messaged here: you have to adapt to Ghoul concept, ha ha? You have to adapt to Haddonfield, ha ha ? No, I didn’t say you have to adapt to x thing that is mechanic in this game. Because such stuff is actually discussable. Again, why you ignoring my statement both sides have to adapt and as example push initial game mechanic when I was discussing a way how people play in the context?
Do you really want to argue with pallet density adaptation? Why again, we compare initial system with way how people play? Why we compare pallet density and tunneling? Because they both bring benefits? But why ignoring their difference? One thing was added through mechanics in game. Other thing is how people play. Maybe it works in your reality where try hards is your biggest issue only because of the way how they play, but I make difference between something like pallets being here by default and tunneling becoming a decision committing to it or not…
Like…. That’s the core principle of handholding issue… when you expect adaptaion happening through mechanics. It’s a big difference giving base kit Kindred and base kit DS. First thing gives opportunity to utilise resources- when and who and how rescuing. It doesn’t adapt survivors with concept of rescuing through handholding. It provides them opportunity to manage time. They can fail with it through wrong decisions. Second thing just providing additional resource for free. You can’t fail with using base kit DS through wrong decisions. It’s always be right use despite you even understanding why it’s here and how it works.
Edit: Honestly, I'm tired of repeating the same things. It literally all comes down to one argument. The anti-tunnel is still just a desire for us versus them, and it doesn't solve the problem beyond a tug-of-war. If you think otherwise, so be it. If it suits you, you're absolutely right. I don't have the resources to repeat the same things to the local forum residents, who seem to live in a bubble of perpetual tribalism but try to deny it and present their opinions as the voice of the community and cold, hard facts. Whenever the next fact always boils down to "But x side y thing and this is unfair, so I need z unfair thing to push unfair advantage to my side." It's probably cool to demand other players play the same way you do, just because. Not because you actually play better/use effective play/ trying. Just… just play like me… just because… blah blah, you are try hard and spoiled my casual mood, how dare you not treating game as same as me... I don't need this attitude or treatment… honestly. If I was casually playing and some sweat without personal life went to my match, I would rather blame matchmaking instead of going and crying on forum how evil this people are and that some BHVR police should put them in jail and reinforce new law… Stop expecting win against player who doesn’t handicap themselves by chill behaviour made my life ten times easier when I started to play online games.
So again: if you wish to hear this words, you are 100 times right. I would prefer to play game itself or focus on game rather than player behaviour discussion, because all this thread gave me realisation it never worthy my time. Not my interest
You're either manipulating what I'm saying or you're not understanding it fully. I don't have all these strong emotions and aggravations about things that you keep saying I do. I don't take this or any game seriously enough to. I don't care about comp players. I don't care about Nurse. I just want the game to revolve around the majority players' gameplay, which is probably the mid two tiers of MMR. Am I one of them? Probably, yeah, along with what is likely the vast majority of players. But if it's a pointless discussion than so be it. That is that.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016471#Comment_4016471
Yeah so that hook actually takes coordination to save which is fine. Being able to blindly run in solo and trade is very dumb.
If it's VERY rare why would you expect a great play to occur, since the survivors don't see it that much? An if this was soloq, how are they supposed to coordinate, if our party couldn't even manage it? Treating a first hooking like an end game scenario shouldn't be the norm. The killers were not interested in budging until they forced the second. Increasing the radius would help this. It's not that big of change.