cogsturning
cogsturning
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019402#Comment_4019402
Let's start with 80% of the killer roster being bugged to hell. Some killers being bugged to damn near unplayable. But the second Decisive Strike has a bug, or flashlights…HOTFIX.
I'm talking about gameplay but it's a lot easier to fix a small issue than a big one. There are also 41 killers. If one has issues, pick another. I don't think a whole lot of people put "Houndmaster is too buggy" as their uninstall reason.
And there's also a huge list of fixes for both sides with each fix.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020790#Comment_4020790
That's irrelevant. Even if there is, they're hard focusing on survivor gripes and ONLY survivor gripes. Killer gripes are a blatant afterthought. There's a clear and obvious bias.
And you don't think there might be a reason? Like maybe that survivor turnover and historic complaints are higher and that's what they're focusing on right now?
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
I'm glad I missed that post. That sounds horrific.
It's still here. We're at 6.5 hours now. Just don't open the one post by HandholdbyDaylight and you'll be good.
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@Dokta_Carter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020814#Comment_4020814
Honestly let's say they are honest with diffrent killers, I want to know which killers, and if these were 5 matches or more per killer?
And arguably, isnt the killers ideal outcome a down every chase?
If there are no powers or add-ons or anything it wouldn't matter much. The terror radius is the major difference if all you're doing is M1ing.
It is yeah, but it isn't what happens. This person is wording it as though killers are so OP that every chase does end with a down. But it's far from true. These would have to be God awful players to lose almost every chase. This has to be a bait post.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020801#Comment_4020801
I'm still not signing up for it. The milestones tell me enough. 😝
I whole-heartedly recommend not doing so.
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Listen first-time poster, I'm on board with the assesemnet that killer is easier but you're telling me you played 100 matches and got like a 90 KR with no perks, add-ons, or powers use? Color me doubtful. Do you have any way to prove this? Was this a fresh account? Cause sure, I could smurf my way to these numbers too with just M1ing against babies.
I have tried this with numerous killers not that it made a difference in the experiment
It kinda does matter. Different killlers have different MMRs. So if you're new or have a low base MMR, you're going to get very new opponenets and hopping around will keep it that way for a little while.
Not every chase should end with a down
Bro, I win at least half my chases as survivor and I suck at looping. Who are your opponenets??
The actual problem is the killers they need a nerf. Whether it is their add ons, perks, abilities, or base stats
We do not need to nerf every single thing for killers. Some high tier killers absolutely need nerfs, but some need buffs. The perks don't all need nerfs. And keep your hands off my Lightborn.
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@UnicornMedal said:
I don't think they've ever insisted it's a party game—that's the players themselves doing that. BHVR has been active in trying to get it to be more competitive for a while now, including backing the tournament scene. They just never fully commit to it.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020794#Comment_4020794
I can only imagine with how intent people are about sharing their stats.
They should have never made that damn stats page. It's like you're obligated to show stats to have any leverage. It'd be the same with MMR, though at least that can go both ways. "You're low/high MMR so you don't understand the problems of high/low MMR."
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If you show people their MMR they will use it to invalidate each other. This already happens with people just assuming theirs and other people's brackets.
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Cause it literally just means that no player who quits can even list their reasons if they are Killer-side related
It's a bit blurry, but is there not a box for writing what your issues are right under the selections?
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@Nazzzak said:
It's not that loser's first rodeo. He knows when the lulls in moderation are. He'll be back with a fresh account the next time he's unhappy with the game, making his mental instability our problem yet again.
Interestingly, the last post was survivor-sided. This one is killer-sided. If it is the same person (as it seems to be, based on time and style), they don't even seem to have a stance. It's just pure, unbiased trolling.
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The last one was up for like 6 hours. There's a mod that usually shows up around 9-10am GMT. That's often when I see the ban hammer fall.
It's unfortunate. They need some extra person to have the power to delete these posts. This is the second in a month or so.
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@Dokta_Carter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020477#Comment_4020477
Are we... really bringing that up in 2025?
Some people will never release their grip on this tired joke.
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Yeah, exactly. If an aspect isn't going the way it should or is being overly used or abused to the point where anything else is considered sub-par, you change it to even things out. If so many people hadn't crutched so hard on tunneling to secure easy wins, we wouldn't be here.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020127#Comment_4020127
I was quoting the devs in the stream.
Who probably used the term because it was constantly being used in the forum to describe the previous proposed changes.
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Imagine being so bothered by squatting digital characters that you lash out at any random you see.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020656#Comment_4020656
i mean you dont really need to play aggressively, pretty sure people are still DCing v ghoul and krasue at the sight of them.
all i know from my matches a while ago was my myers kill rate was between 80 to 90% kill rate across about 2800 matches. and many of these matches i had people run up to me to get tombstoned before i even did anything simply because they all said "myers is boring, doesnt chase".
Yeah no I'm not going to play as either of those. I don't even have them unlocked. I can do okay enough without the overtuned killers.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020625#Comment_4020625
being as we have now come to the conclusion that people need to test these things themselves due to how unreliable bhvr stats are…. if kill rates are not effected by survivors abandoning and killers killing bots still works out right i would be interested in how many kills killers are getting from bots when people immediately DC or go next. while abandons not being counted suggest a possible inflation of escape rates, these bot kills and go nexters suggest kill rates may be inflated too.
for example, i had a match recently where my solo team DCed at the start of the match v deathslinger. they basically handed the killer a 3k that they may not have had if the survivors didnt go next. this inflation of kill rate might seem like the killer is doing well, maybe too well and needs nerfs. but in reality when they go against people that dont DC in 5 seconds they get steamrolled by the survivors.
Out of those 14 matches I previously mentioned, 6 had DCs. A total of 7 DC bots. So I'll get some info there from the killer side. But the only way I'm going to get any meaningful numbers out of this is to play really aggressive and win a lot, since most DCs and abandons are because of killer behavior, sheer hopelessness, or 4ks. So I don't know how that will go. Funny enough, killers who win less probably have the most accurate numbers.
It'd be nice if multiple people tried this experiemnt. It'd also be nice to spread it beyond the forum to X and Reddit. This is a big issue and the post about it got buried by doom posts, as everything does.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020616#Comment_4020616
we dont know because the wording has been "dcing and abandoning matches are not tracked, since your and their mmr is not effected. does this mean the match as a whole is thrown out or just for that one person the DC? if a survivor abandons and the killer kills the bot does the killer still get the kill or is it thrown out because of the abandon? if survivors abandon but 1 escapes is the match considered an escape for 1 person but void for the rest? are killers getting kills via bots but survivors not getting deaths?
with the mmr being included with this, it throws the hatch in question too. the hatch doesnt effect mmr either for either player so is the hatch considered a void match or an escape?
are killers getting kills via bots but survivors not getting deaths?
I think it will turn out to be this.
The first day I stated writing this down I played 14 matches. 12 were 4ks, resulting in a 92% KR for the session. Out of these, 11 had abandons and 1 had DCs. So every match would have been tossed accept the other two, leaving me with a 50% KR. But my rate with that killer for the month is 88%, a number that would be impossible if the wins were tossed. Even if you just subtract the bots and not the matches, I had 19 bots out of 56 opponents. My stats would have to be lower.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020614#Comment_4020614
How often do your teammates abandon when you play Survivor? Because from my understanding, any match with anyone abandoning is thrown out, so your Survivor stats might be thrown off from the official tracker, too.
Fairly often, like most people's lost matches. My numbers usually feel accurate in their mediocrity as well. If they're not, and I have zero control over even my own numbers despite never using the abandon, I'm going to be pissed. But it would confirm the tracker and abandon button exist just to make survivors feel better about their bad experience. Because it can only be higher—and never lower—than the true number.
I keep track of my survivor matches anyway so I guess I'll add other people's abandons to my note criteria and see what happens.
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@BorisDDAA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020614#Comment_4020614
Isn't the killer stat fine though? From what I've seen it's only recent match history that is broken but the kill rate is accurate. Can't say for escape rate.
I don't know. That's what I want to see. The survivor stats I'm fairly sure are vanity stats after that post about it (and the complete absence of clarification), but the killer stats might be slightly affected too. If two people abandon at the end and one shows up in recent matches as an escape, does it really not affect the numbers? We shall see. I've only been doing this for a few days and already have 5 of those instances, so I should get at least a little info.
I would love for someone who is okay using the abandon button to do the same test and see what numbers they get as surv. I believe a lot of these 60% ERs I see that don't make sense to me are probably 40% or lower because these people are just the last to die and hit he abandon.
I'm pretty unbothered about most things in this game, but the idea that the stats might be gaslighting survivors into thinking they're doing better than they are—and maybe their complaints aren't valid because of it—has really gotten under my skin.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020603#Comment_4020603
as killer or survivor? or both?
Killer. My survivor stats are probably accurate as I don't DC or abandon, and I'd like to keep them that way. With killer, it'll be other people's choices potentially altering my numbers, not mine.
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020570#Comment_4020570
You most likely then play at time when there is not enough people of your skill level around so it gives you that team again as they are your mmr. There is nothing sinister there.
This is a valid assessment. I play at 4am in my zone and often see the same people, regardless of role. Sometimes parties, sometimes not. I've also seen other people who play at weirdo hours make this claim as well.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020562#Comment_4020562
They KR is lower because the most common use of the Abandon feature is at the end of the game, when the Killer has downed the last Survivor.
Congratulations, you've proved the effective KR is ABOVE 60%. And you are asking for more buffs.
What a joke. Hopefully everyone else can see the absurdity of your position.
I'm currently in the process of tracking my stats for 30 days and noting abandons and DCs to see if there's a sizable difference between the stat page and what I write down. I'm eager to see the results.
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Yeah big same about this argument. "Well your MMR must be low" as if anyone has ever had a consistent experience with this matchmaking. Will I get the p100 Blight who won't let me even look at a gen or the baby Trapper who's still setting traps as we open the gates? Will I get the most coordinated, meta-stacked SWAT team who won't let me get into a single chase without body blocks, or potatoes who run in a straight line without looking behind them? Who knows? But, if anything, it's always a surprise.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020527#Comment_4020527
even the devs have said, if you sweat as a player then you will be matched with sweaty players.
logic says if someone is playing sweaty and winning consistently for months or years then MMR will go up. how else does someone get into high MMR?
but people that play chill and dont win as much as a sweaty player would obviously have a lower MMR.
IF your playing chilled, casual and still winning as much as a competitive sweaty player you must be 1 hell of a player lol.
I'm an average player but my KR is 83% for the month out of 200+ matches. Do you really think it'll give me potatoes with that number? Even if I try a new killer for the first time, winning 20 matches in a row quickly shifts me to better opponents. My killer matches are full of body blocking, DS, DH, Unbreakable, Made for This, Vigil, syptics, and syringes. Chill doesn't mean bad or suicidal, I just match the lobby's energy. If they're psycho, I'll kick it up. If something goes bad in the match, if people sandbag or DC, I let the innocent parties do the gens and leave. I give skilled or cute players the hatch. My overall stats could be higher because of that but they don't matter to me. Not being an additional source of misery in this game does.
I know I'm not high MMR as surv but playing with skilled people drags me around the brackets. Killers tunnel at all brackets because it's cheap and easy. Tunneling killers in your matches says absolutely nothing about what MMR level you're at.
But do you see anyone ratting in those SWAT teams? Upper MMR survivors don't do that. Everyone takes aggro, body blocks, and supports each other. If you think you're upper MMR as surv by ratting in a locker your ego is deluding you. And, as you know, abandons and DCs don't count as loses and hatches don't raise MMR, so your survivor stats no longer prove much.
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@Roco45 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020133#Comment_4020133
Ah so this is why you combat any suggested nerf to SWF, because you play SWF. Makes sense now.
Oh no, people have...friends! It's almost like that gives me perspective on how the SWF boogeyman isn't real. Not everyone is aggressive with it or playing like a well-oiled machine. Some people are just goofing and having fun. People endlessly lament in this forum about playing soloq or killer, yet no one every complains about SWF except for the people on the outside looking in, because they want a scapegoat for the game's problems. Being able to play with friends is one of the only pleasant things in this game right now. Punishing or discouraging that would be idiotic.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020220#Comment_4020220
i say some people because its apparently not just you. my guess is your chilled way of playing results in a lower mmr which makes sense. i do what i need to do to win, which would explain how i get matched with like minded people….thats fine. you dont use comms and make call outs, maybe the killer doesnt need to tunnel in your matches. but im getting try hard SWF swat teams pretty often. you try beating them without tunneling and try winning in solo v try hard tunneling killers. when you do that and find you cant win which means you dont have fun then you will understand. you need SWF to have fun, thats great some people do. i dont. i dont rely on others to have a good time, i find my own enjoyment and there is nothing wrong with that.
I love how everyone on this forum thinks they're top MMR and everyone they speak to must not be. My whole last session was SWAT teams and aggressive killers. Just because I'm chill doesn't mean my opponenets are, nor does it mean I'm losing.
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@squbax said:
"I will be doing zero stealthing" my brother in christ you are playing dredge to begin with, stealth was never an option at all lmao. But yeah the pov is significantly better now.
@Boingo said:
Dredge is bad at stealth in general. Dredge is already big they just placed a sheet over him. Nightfall you literally glow white your literally a light in the dark so anyone with eyes will see you.
I've snatched many a survivor off a gen in Nightfall
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020192#Comment_4020192
but on the argument that kill rates are inflated from tunneling….SWF are inflated from the comms. if killers need to learn to play the game without the crutch of tunneling then surly SWF should learn to play without the crutch of comms? Many have openly said "never playing solo again" because they just cant win, they need SWF.
do people really need comms to have fun with friends? it seems some people admit they dont always have comms in a SWF and have fun so why is it needed?
Skip the "some people" and just tag me next time because the references are pretty clear.
I don't need SWF to win. I need it to squeeze some fun out of this experience.
I can still enjoy the companionship of others without talking. Sometimes people text too. It's also nice simply to play with people who have your back and you don't have to worry about malicious and usless randoms.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020170#Comment_4020170
right so your dismissing the argument of baby survivors because it doesnt fit your narrative again.
your only getting your view, and ignoring anything else, while your experience seems chilled and friendly and meme filled, mine is very different. untill you acknowledge that your experience differs greatly to mine and many others out there you will never truly understand any point i make because your oblivious to what its actually like other matches other than your own. My experience as killer is regular 3/4 person SWF on comms with call outs…you can dismiss this if you want by saying "people dont really do that because i dont do that" but the fact is this does happen and it happens a lot in my matches as killer and survivor.
just to clarify i dont care if people have comms and make call outs, i deal with it in my own way. But if someone is going to tell me "dont tunnel at 5 gens" then i could say "dont use comms in SWF". we all play our own way and we do what we need to do. if people use comms, loop, use sprint burst, use windows of opportunity or whatever perk they like, great have at it. im tunneling at 5 gens….im playing stealthy to counter being tunneled. the question i ask is who is having more fun in the game? as survivor: me or someone being tunneled because they wont play stealthy? as killer: me or someone that loses killer matches over and over because they refuse to tunnel?
Oh yes, my experience is quite different. Ratting in a locker or tunneling at 5 gens is not a reflection of skill in any match I play in. Quite the opposite.
you can dismiss this if you want by saying "people dont really do that because i dont do that"
I'm telling you lots of parties aren't on comms because it's a fact you dont want to hear. I'm also telling you it shouldn't matter that much. If you truly can't win without tunneling and the SWF boogeyman is your excuse, you're in the wrong MMR bracket. I can only hope these watered-down measures help with these problems at least a little.
But if someone is going to tell me "dont tunnel at 5 gens" then i could say "dont use comms in SWF"
Man, you sure love false equivalence. Tunneling at 5 gens comes in one form. SWF on comms comes in many forms. They are not the same.
the question i ask is who is having more fun in the game? as survivor: me or someone being tunneled because they wont play stealthy? as killer: me or someone that loses killer matches over and over because they refuse to tunnel?
Me, laughing and joking with friends while not being obsessed with winning while I rat in a locker and me, still winning as killer without crutching on tunneling.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020174#Comment_4020174
32m wallhacks BTW and this guy acting like its nothing 😂😂😂people who defend this stuff really are something
Tunneling got a smidgen harder, maybe, and you're going off. Like is this really that intimidating to you? Cause I'm not even gonna feel it as killer.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020149#Comment_4020149
right so now got its because they are baby killers….people that can get kills with killers without tunneling are getting baby survivors. if your going to swing that argument you have to apply it both ways but you seem to only apply things to fit your argument while dismiss it when it doesnt fit your narrative.
i cant be sure they dont call out? when they do impossible things like know where i am as if they have wall hacks….yes i can be sure. i have been scratch mirror myers and pig and have watched so many people pre run when im in stealth mode on hawkins then when i back away i can see them getting back on a gen….head in that direction hidden by mutiple walls and i can see them moving away lol you have to have superhuman game sense to know some of these things these people know.
you seem to be in the mindset of "i dont know if they have comms so im going to assume they dont" when quite often they do and it can be seen in the matches very easily. when asked post match they dont even deny it. just because you play without comms doesnt mean most people play like you, they really dont. i have had duos in my solo matches and they are almost always on comms. when i ask its rare they say "we SWF but no comms" very rare
people that can get kills with killers without tunneling are getting baby survivors
Or maybe they can keep up their oppression on the intended four opponenents for a whole entire match. The game was designed for those four opponenets. If you're truly so good and so smart, you can handle the game the way it's supposed to be and beat these teams without crutching on an early crippling.
you seem to be in the mindset of "i dont know if they have comms so im going to assume they dont"
I do know for a fact that many don't because I play with a lot of people, who also play with a lot of other people, and I end up in random parties with strangers regularly. This endless chain of people is fine with no communication at all. It's logical to assume there's many of us.
But I actually just don't care if people are. It's you who endlessly brings up SWF and comms every chance you get. It's not affecting my killer matches much and I don't care about it one way or the other in regards to my opponenets. But it sure seems to make you feel some type of way.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020133#Comment_4020133
right so SWF calling out ghostface location heading to main building where people are doing gens so they have a chance to pre run or hide is skill? come on, you cant be serious.
i got you saying hiding behind a rock takes no skill and i got Ampers saying stealth isnt viable lol. you should try doing a gen and hiding when the killer comes near you then continue doing gen when the killer spends too long searching…. see how well you can do it.
im basing the SWF situation on the matches i have, they can pull off plays with ease purely because they have comms to let others know im heading in that direction, or they just seen a hex but they couldnt do it because they are in chase so they call it out and someone else does it while im chasing…skill? not at all. having extra info is not skill. doing these things without comms in solo? yes thats impressive but in SWF, its really not. i know they are on comms because i pay attention in the match and i practically see the communication in the way they play, going for a hex they would never have known about or avoiding taking a chase to a gen thats being worked on.
i got you saying hiding behind a rock takes no skill and i got Ampers saying stealth isnt viable lol
It's probably viable against God awful baby killers that don't check behind the rock, but this would never fly in my killer matches. I wish they would lol
You can't be sure they called it out. Some people have good gamesense and know where the killer is at pretty much all times. Perks matter too. I often point out totems to randoms in case I can't do the cleanse (teamwork is wild bro).
I never said callouts were skill. It's not the callouts, its the plays. I had a team recently (that might have been on comms, can't be sure) that read my perks and used them against me to bait me away from their gen jockeys. A smart, coordinated play, super duper impressive and genuinely smart. One of the only losses I've had this month.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020110#Comment_4020110
again i have never said i cant mind game or predict movements, i have to do this to down people to start the tunneling process. i dont have an issue with it. but your failing to see the point time and time again. as killer yes i would like to play against stealthy survivors, they are the ones that give me a close match as killer and often counter my tunneling. as long as the people hiding are doing gens too i have no issue with it…thats what i do.
i think i use my wits more than most as killer and survivor which is often the easiest path….play smart. why would i intentionally pick the harder route? that doesnt sound smart to me. im not trying to impress anyone, im playing for me and my enjoyment and my win.
i didnt say you play in parties for an advantage, but like or not SWF with comms intentional or not often will have advantages. not everyone parties up with no comms and plays for memes and has chilled matches….thats the opposite of my experience. almost all SWF's recently have been meta perks, on comms, calling out hexes and locations.
There's no point for me to see. This looping comparison is nonsense. Pulling off a great team play that obliterated the killer is impressive. Hiding behind a rock is not. The most selfish path is not somehow the smartest. It's just the easiest.
almost all SWF's recently have been meta perks, on comms, calling out hexes and locations.
What are you basing this on? Vibes? Streamers? Almost no one I know uses meta perks. I've never once discussed or aligned my perks with anyone while playing in multiple groups. We do what we want, together.
Half the people I play with are cross plartform. You'd never be able to tell we were in a party. I've played with randoms who have saved me/I've pulled off saves for in end game and I promise you the killer thought we were in party by how perfect they went. Meanwhile, I'll blow it compeltley in a party. It's rare that I'm 100% sure my opponenets are on comms, but there have been times where I watched them load in separately in a lobby and play like a coordinated SWAT team.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020070#Comment_4020070
i have been in swf with comms years ago, i know the advantages it provides and i have seen the plays teams with comms can do in my own matches as killer and survivor. to suggest SWF with comms offers no advantages is just ignorant or delusional.
looping optional, i have escaped many matches by not looping. its called stealth. but you are close to the issue when you say "Decent looping against a killer who doesn't suck is a hard-earned skill and isn't optional if you want to win matches consistently." tunneling against a decent team that doesnt suck isnt optional if you want to win matches consistently. any argument can be flipped.
how to loop only when needed? you run around the map, pallet to pallet, take a hook state, and when you think your going to lose if you dont loop….then you can loop. this is the attitude of people regarding tunneling…chase people, let a few gens pop then when you think your going to lose then you can tunnel, then its acceptable.
so as i said, i wont tunnel if people dont loop and see how that goes? im guessing no?
You're arguing that running to pallets and likely wasting resources is somehow more agreeable than looping? So you like breaking a zillion pallets as killer but you can't mind game or predict movements? Would you, as killer, like to play against four hiding, cowardly rats as well? Or is hiding only okay if it's just you while your teammates do the real work?
If you're tunneling at 5 gens it has nothing to do with the team sucking or not. And you're also talking like everyone who wins, tunnels, and that's not the case.
You're telling me I'm ignorant or delusional about a thing I do all the time. It CAN be an advantage. It can be a hindrance. It can also be nothing at all. I don't play in parties for an advantage, I play to hang out with chill people. I'll play with anyone if they're cool and I like their company. I know this is hard for you to believe, but not everyone is motivated solely by winning.
You're pretty much saying you take the easiest path both times: ratting and tunnelng? Do you think that's impressive?
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020053#Comment_4020053
it might come across that way, certainly not the case but people can think what they want. it often comes across like people that have an issue with tunneling are bitter they lose and have no idea how to play the game when their one and only way fails.
my point still stands with no valid argument against it….you call tunneling a cheese tactic, i call comms in SWF or looping a cheese tactic. all are fine in my book, i have no issue with either because as survivor i can counter tunneling and as killer i can counter a large proportion of teams with tunneling. its just interesting that people refuse to see that tunneling is part of the game like it or not and always will be just like comms and looping.
you play solo survivor without looping and i will play killer without tunneling lol. no? how about i only tunnel if i need to, say mid match? and you only loop when you need to? no?
Lol you can't just flip the wording on things and have it make zero sense just so you can justify playing in a way that is frowned on by almost everyone. Even people who defend tunneling constantly here don't do so for 5 gen tunneling.
Tunneling is optional and requires no skill. Decent looping against a killer who doesn't suck is a hard-earned skill and isn't optional if you want to win matches consistently.
You sure have a lot of knowledge about how people use comms for someone who doesn't.
How does one loop "when they need to"? Do you just stand there under the hook and point until end game? What does this even mean? Just say you don't care how anyone feels and winning in a video game is all that matters because you pretty much have said those things in pieces. Why try to justify being it with this nonsensical reasoning?
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020035#Comment_4020035
once again you say its weird and not normal….according to you. but the amount of people that claim it happens every match suggest it is normal. i could say going in a circle or using comms isnt normal….it is normal but i could still say its weird and not normal just like you can say it for tunneling.
what if i said looping from the start of the match ruined my fun? i could call that an ass move to immediately start looping before i even get a hit. i dont think this, but i could very easily think it and say only loop mid match when the things are going poorly but not from the start.
You do realize that all of this makes you sound like:
1. You get loopped to hell as killer.
2. You're bitter about people having friends.
3. You have no idea how to play without cheese tactics.
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Hook states visible to killers and main building nerfs are mysteriously absent from this list. Or are the killer-sided elements under "etc"?
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018305#Comment_4018305
Shouldn't this have been the approach they should have used for fog vials too? Instead they just did a sweeping adjustment across the board rather than granular ones? If they touch pallet density, what makes you sure they'd turn their focus on individual maps rather than their M.O. of wide-sweeping changes?
I see they are trying to take organized feedback for each map in their social spaces, but I'm seeing many disagreeing opinions on whether a map needs pallets or not for each realm. This community couldn't even collectively agree that the sky is blue.
I'll alwayss be baffled by the response to fog vials. They weren't even an issue. Killers said "annoying" and "spammable" and survivors said "fun" and "toy." Not exactly concerning wording on either side—and they got nuked. They appeared to be considering either a charge increase or an opacity revert and nothing happened.
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@Dokta_Carter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019878#Comment_4019878
Yeah, the phrasing is good in your example.
But only using one side as examples of "hand holding" feels very disingenuous.
Im not asking for like a whole list but like "a said this was for b and b said this was for a" feels better, and less.... biased? Even if they arent, phrasing or not showing equal representation can still be viewed a little biased.
I wouldn't expect it to actually say that, that's my casual, snarky example, but the way they worded it made it sound like players felt like their OWN hands were being held when it was mostly the other way around. I suppose it should have said "players felt their opponenets hands were being held." Though even the use of "hands being held" sounds so weird in an official statement. If we're critiquing word usage, "Players felt their opponents were being given too much leniency and free advantages by a built-in system" would have sounded more...professional?
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I don't see how it's handholdy anymore than perks and add-ons are handholdy. I think it should have said "side A thought side B was being handheld" because that's mostly what I saw in the forum.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019852#Comment_4019852
Well it depends on how poorly you loop. Are you just gonna jiggy (w key) from the hook the second you get hit, or are you going to run to the nearest loop? Either way, no matter the killer, it's not gonna make a difference, you should be staying at a loop once you've lost your endurance, because mobility or not, they will catch up to you.
So if the killer is still going to try to tunnel and the unhooked survivor still has to out loop them, what has changed? You're not noisy while you do it? It sounds like it's only going to help against killers who weren't tunneling anyway, just to keep them from accidentally finding you again. I don't forsee this helping much with intentional tunneling, especially from players who seem incapable of doing anything else.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019425#Comment_4019425
No it's not. Survivors still have a massive haste boost, they're untraceable by any means and they can see and avoid you. And if they are getting caught so soon off hook with these changes, thats definitely a skill issue on their part. If a killer is within 20 meters of the hook for a long period of time, your anti camp gain rate is going to be massive, you might as well not be near the hook and let your teammate unhook themself, saving you time and giving extra gen pressure, especially since you can all see the resolve bar now.
A haste boost against Kaneki or Blight isn't going to do anything. The Elusive will be great against killers who don't have eyes, yeah, but we'll see how it goes against the ones who do and are still determined to tunnel and just maintain LoS. There are already killers who stand just outside the anti-camp radius. They're gonna take a few paces back. If they're a ranged or high mobility killer, it'll have little effect on them.
As for skill, soloq teammates aren't renowned for their smart plays, and someone trailing behind you to heal might lead the killer right to you. The map and RNG are going to play a big part too. Like most things, coordinated team will do better with these changes (if they even survive the ptb) than soloq, because they can tell each other what to do and not to do.
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There are quite a lot of people that say they barely if ever play the game anymore yet still post about their discontent here. You don't get booted from the forum or any other social platform when you uninstall. Maybe some will come back if problems are addressed.
The pallet density change is brand new and is clearly on the chopping block, considering its got a whole feedback section here.
Camping people into second stage is still a regular occurrence in my matches despite the meter.
If you're honestly complaining about flashlights then put on Lightborn. It's one perk slot and your problem is solved. Tunneling and slugging have no such easy solution.
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@Roco45 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019653#Comment_4019653
You ignored that entire portion of my comment where I stated that the game would need further balancing with Killers, since it would overall be easier to achieve if SWF and SoloQ were near equal in power.
SoloQ is claimed to be the biggest portion of Survs; that's a stat fact pushed by BHVR that's repeated ad nauseum on this forum. Yet people still play SoloQ despite it being the worst experience that DBD has to offer, SoloQ remains and has always remained the majority of Survs queueing up according to BHVR…. so why cater to SWF when they are the minority of the Surv player base, at the expense of SoloQ and Killers?
Would actual balance changes to SWF deter people from playing with their friends… I'm doubtful of that, I think that's just a fear monger tactic pushed by people who don't want their unfair advantages neutralized. There is zero reason BHVR can't put changes like that into the PTB and then live, see what happens and revert/adjust if needed, same as all their other balance changes.
What is clear, is that SWF and SoloQ are vastly different and it's making the game unbalance-able.
I ignored it because what your prosposing means "let's see how bad it is for surviviors and then go from there". So how long is that terrible period where killers get adjusted going to be? Because what they really need is individual adjustments, not blanket ones. And how well has that been going? Skull Merchant hasn't exactly been timely. People complain endlessly about Sadako and Ghostface. Michael's reworks have created endless complaints. Making SWF as unhappy and disadvantaged as soloq for months or years isn't going to fix anything.
And your logic doesn't make sense. Killers tunnel, slug, and camp because of SWF but SWF is a minority. Why would everyone's gameplay revolve around this tiny minority, many of whom arent even sweats? Killers do these things because they want to win, they're easy, and the game let's them.
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@Raptorrotas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019101#Comment_4019101
We ALWAYS get tunneled!
ALL Nurses are OP!
So many absolutes, right?
I ONLY get tunneled. EVERYTHING is tunneling.
lol as if Survivors didnt cry wolf just as often.
It works and people know it, but it seems to work for one side more than the other. Killers used harsh words like "annoying" to describe fog vials and they were nerfed into uselessness less than two weeks in, yet endless posts about pallets has resulted in a whole section to give individual feedback by map and they're clearly heading for at least a partial revert. And anti-tunneiling was nuked and has come back in a format just as useless as those fog vials.
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My Last 10 survivor matches:
- Doctor
- Huntress
- Lich
- Wraith
- Huntress
- Wesker
- Michael
- Xenomorph
- Michael
- Springtrap
Most of them won. Guess the pallets aren't ruining their matches, nor did they help mine.
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I'd like to uninstall and reclaim my life but I'm addicted and can't currently stop myself, but I'm not happy with the state of survivor so I'm playing more and more killer. At least I feel like I can act and make my own decisions in that role.
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@Roco45 said:
Start calling it out like it is though, Killers tunnel because the game favors SWF and the Killer, at base, treats every match from the jump as if they're facing a SWF. That is why they tunnel, slug and camp. It's the easiest thing to do that nets the best results, which is overkill for SoloQ since they lack coordination and often stomps SWF because it takes immense coordination to negate it. Simply lumping SoloQ and SWF together is dishonest and needs to stop or BHVR will never achieve any semblance of balance.
Yea, gen speeds go by too fast, so why don't they impose repair speed penalties for SWF depending on how many are in the SWF, so gens take longer for them. Oh look, they are all stacking meta perks along with their ultra discord coordination, so why not prevent SWF from repeating the same perks, everyone in the party must use different perks. Those two changes alone would mellow out SWF and attempt to bridge the Grand Canyon gap between SWF and SoloQ, then Killers can be adjusted accordingly.
I honestly cannot see why BHVR caters to, what they claim through stats, is the minority of Surv players and why people in this community seem so blind to the actual root cause of these issues.
So you nerf every person in a party, even those who aren't on comms and aren't coordinated, since the game can't tell the difference between casual friends goofing off and SWAT teams , and now you just have all survivors being equally miserable. All this would do is discourage loose friends from partying up.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019626#Comment_4019626
So you are the type that rather nerfs everything than looks at problems from more vievs, your ideas are same as bhvr balancing addons just nerfing good and used ones and are oblivious to the fact others arent used becasue they are bad same way just nerf and punish tunneling without seeing full picture why it happens (tunneling on 5 gens ism bad but than its just most effective way to get presure same as doing gens with survivor).
Im currently playing more survivor because of chalanges and my escape rate is better than before without some crazy antitunnel perks or features and still I dont sream here survivors dont need better antitunnel protection because Im doing fine without it and so should others.
What other views? I'm playing killer and I'm fine. There's nothing I want changed. And what nerfs do I want? Maybe for S tier killlers, but most reasonable people want that. I want the lower tier killers reworked to catch them up and have everyone meet in the middle. And where did I say anything about nerfing addons? But there's plenty of examples of killers in the forum crying about BNPs, syptics, and syringes, two of which are now on the chopping block. So it's okay for one group to cry for addon nerfs?
Tunneling at 5 gens is not the same as doing gens. There's nothing else for survivors to do. There's no other objective. Tunneling is a choice. Doing gens isn't. And even when there is another objective, look at the sweatfest that is the event. God forbid I go into the void and make a stupid crystal without the killer using it as an opportunity to down me at the well when all I want is to complete a Quest. Even when survivors aren't doing gens constantly there's just no winning with some players.