cogsturning
cogsturning
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@DarKStaR350z said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022032#Comment_4022032
Does the same apply to killers as SWAT teams then? So the arguement about streamers who play the game for a job getting kill streaks with certain killers is ok and they should deserve to win because they’re using the mechanics and aren’t the majority? Because people love to throw that around as a reason to blanket nerf killers at every level.
I don't think those streaks should even be possible unless an equally skilled survivor-player/team can do the same, which I've never seen. Not those sort of numbers anyway. If both can be possible at the same time, then it's fine. Then it's balanced. I think S tiers need some nerfs but not because of streamers. I'd like to see Ss become As and Ds become Cs and killers be more even, just different.
The top tier performers (especially streamers, who already sadly dictate this game's direction) are an example I hate. I don't think the game should be balanced around its mystical, magical 1% that always comes up. It should be balanced around the majority, which is probably the middle two brackets of MMR. Whatever changes come, if they're so amazingly skilled, they should be the ones to adjust. That applies to both roles.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022030#Comment_4022030
i wont make any prejudgments on the proposed changes untill i play it myself, im fine giving it a go. worst case scenario i just stop playing killer altogether and only play survivor.
if the score system was based on the team then yes you would have a point but its per player not team based. individual escape rate, individual mmr, individual BP rewards. so if 3 people die and 1 walks out the gate, that 1 person walks away with a win in every aspect.
people often die because of themselves not because of me. when 2 or 3 of my team mates go down in seconds and im half way doing the first gen…what am i supposed to do? help them so they can go down before i even have chance to get to doing a gen? or maybe the killer comes after me instead and the rest of the team avoids gens trying for flashlight saves? if they go down in seconds thats on them not me.
i dont hide all match waiting for the hatch, i do gens while not being seen, i have had matches where i have done 3 gens all on my own and people claimed i was hiding in a locker all match lol. if i can crank out gens while being in a locker then thats some serious skill. But i do gens as top priority which is the objective. i will keep doing gens untill either i have no choice but deal with a chase so i loop and do what i need to do with the hope others do gens… or when my whole team pretty much bungled it so gens cant be done faster than the killer is wiping out the team…thats when my priority turns to hatch.
The only time people have died due to my actions is when i walk out the gate at full health while someone is on hook. can i go for the save? will i? nope. i get mixed responses for that if im honest. some say i should have gone back to help but others say they are glad i didnt because they didnt want the killer getting a 4k.
if the score system was based on the team then yes you would have a point
The wincon should absolutely be changed and personal ERs need to go, but I still have a point regardless. If the killer hard tunnled and won the match then, data-wise, the tunneling succeeded. If you got tunneled and the other three escaped because the killer was busy with you would you say that your countering failed? Because it didn't. The killer lost because they hyperfocused and didn't apply pressure properly. You're individual rate doesn't matter when we're talking big picture.
i get mixed responses for that if im honest
Sure, because all scenarios are different. These scenarios you're providing really ignore the nuance of matches. End game showdowns come in many forms. No one expects you to go for a save if you're injured and the last one remaining, or if a Bubba is camping someone in the basement. But that's way different than 3 healthy people with an accessible hook that's near a door, against a Wraith.
soloq is nowhere near close to being equal to SWF on comms.
More lacking nuance. It's the players who matter. My escape rate is unaffected by being in an SWF. If it's gotten slightly better, it's because I've gotten slightly better. I've had killer matches against obvious partymates who I've completely thrashed, no cheese tactics needed. And I've had matches against skilled solos who worked together beautifully and had such great gamesense that I couldn't touch them. I've had soloq win streaks and SWF loss streaks. The only people that seem to believe in the SWF boogeyman are the ones who haven't spent time with average players playing averagely, just together.
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@Geist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021740#Comment_4021740
I was specifically thinking about the first anti slug attempt on the previous PTB and then applied that experience to the upcoming PTB, a lot can still change in that time so the system might be ok, in theory the 33% speed boost to the pick up meter should be ok against aggressive slugging killers. But if it underperforms(and there is a chance that it might do that), the spreadsheet developers can easily over buff this mechanic making the game into a nightmare for killers who don't want to slug but have to when they go against a competent SWF. That is why I said above that the changes have the POSSIBILITY of negatively affecting the game, not that it WILL negatively affect the game. I truly hope that this mechanic works and makes the game better but as the saying goes "hope for the best, expect the worst".
As for how something can sound good on paper but not in reality let me provide you an analogy, in the USA in the early 1900s they introduced mosquito fish to bodies of fresh water to lower the mosquito population and stop the spread of disease. However these fish had unforeseen effects on the other aquatic creatures, specifically predation on native species like small fish, invertebrates, and amphibian tadpoles, outcompetition for food, and the disruption of food webs. They are now considered invasive, pose a high ecological risk, and sometimes cause economic damage to native fisheries. That is how an idea can sound good on paper but have negative effects in reality. I know this example is a bit extreme but I believe it proves the point I am trying to make about unforeseen consequences.
the spreadsheet developers can easily over buff this mechanic making the game into a nightmare for killers who don't want to slug but have to when they go against a competent SWF.
Then it will again get nerfed. Fog vials made it out of the ptb and were obliterated less than two weeks later, and for pretty ridiculous reasons. We're probably about to see the pallet density change get nerfed too. They won't hesitate to destroy and dismantle at any point.
But I'm super tired of these SWAT teams being the permanent example of all problems. They're not the majority, and if they can use the mechanics to win, then they deserve their win. It's okay if your opponenet wins sometimes.
Well, that a really intersting and odd example but I know what the term means. I'm saying it doesn't apply to things that have yet to pass.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022014#Comment_4022014
im fine with that, 100% on board if these tactics are still viable even if made slightly harder to pull off
Then the purposed changes are fine for you, yes? Because they're pretty minor, and that's all they're doing it—making it slightly harder.
im countering it in my solo matches with minimal issues
It's not really countering if your team loses because of it and you hid and got hatch. If the killer wins because of tunneling, it's not being countered, regardless of whether you yourself escaped. A loss is a loss.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022005#Comment_4022005
i think the point they are making is all of these are all things survivors often complain about. hypothetically, if all these "problem areas" were addressed so survivors had nothing to complain about, what tactics or strategy options would the killer have? i can see the point here.
These things aren't going away, people just want them reduced.
Killers complain about pallets? Should we hypothetically remove those too? What about toolboxes, medkits and flashlights? Exhaustion perks? Endurance? Sabos? Again, what's the point? These things won't be removed, people are just asking for these tactics to be reduced by making them have potential comebacks or being more difficult to pull off so they're just not constant.
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@Leon_van_Straken said:
Just a quick question….
If tunneling, slugging, facecamping, proxy camping, 3 gening, hit and run, and creating dead zones are completly removed.
Which form of strategy has the killer left except "Find Survivor A, chase till he is down, pick up, hook and reapeat at Survivor B?"
Not one of these things has been removed except literal face-camping (well, you can still do it, actually). But you can still camp from a little ways back and force a second stage. What's the point of this argument if these things do and will still exist?
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I think the finisher mori has been the most quietly nefarious change for the game's overall feel and attitude in recent history and it's one of my most hated changes decisions. It feeds rhe 4k thirst. I don't even do it anymore as killer. I just hook the last person.
Moris also used to be a surprise. It's so boring and repetitive now.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021762#Comment_4021762
Haven't you been listening? Killers are tunneling and slugging EVERY SINGLE MATCH.
Sure, I don't tunnel or slug because I don't care about sweating for the win, but you listen to survivor mains, tunneling and slugging oh yea and facecamping, all three happen every single match.Yeah I don't argee with that narrative. But I think a lot of people use the terms too liberally. If you get unhooked and hop right on the gen next to the hook while still injured, of course you're getting downed again. And leaving someone on the ground to pursue a potential saboteur or to break pallets isn't egerious slugging. But also, both those examples will be unaffected by these new measures, thanks to the conspicuous action and lengthy slug recovery time.
But I will say, it's been steadily growing worse in my survivor matches lately and I do go multiple games with hard tunneling. It just depends, often on time of day or region.
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I can't even hit a bot who's standing still when I try to use him. The ranged killers in this game are hard on console and the practice isn't worth the reward when there's a ton of other killers I can play. He's also my most hated killer to play against as survivor and that doesn't really inspire me to try.
His cosmetics are cool though.
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@XLbuff said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021778#Comment_4021778
Of course nothing will ever improve, because devs have made perks as band-aids for years, then add versions of them as base-kit and never change core game mechanics to give killers game-changing incentives. And people on forums keep defending their band-aids as if they are good in the first place.
Why do only killers deserve things? Isn't it possible that killers have had too much for too long and survivors need to be caught up?
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@XLbuff said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021768#Comment_4021768
I already said what direction. Stick instead of carrot for killers. I don't understand when people defend bad game design.
There is nothing meaningful behind hooks for the main goal of the killer, no game-changing incentives. If people can win faster without hooking different players, but that's intended way to play in devs minds, then it is definitely the game design problem. And such survivor buffs, perks or killer nerfs not gonna change much long-term. It just makes the game more restrictive, less fun, more mechanical "play by the book or be punished" chore. They don't provide attractive alternatives to what they're trying to fight with such balance attempts.
There is a small carrot and no stick. A stick means punishment. You can still tunnel and there will be no punishments. The fact that they're even giving a BP reward is noteworthy because they could have given nothing. Like I said, plenty of people already played this way. It's not that hard.
It's not that it's necessarily the intended way to play, it's that tunneling has become too rampant and players are now miserable. If it happened here and there, fine, but it doesn't. And it's too easy to do for how much it ruins everyone else's match.
We can never even get to a ptb without all this doom and gloom. It's just everyone latching on on to some terminology (I've heard "carrot and stick" 50 times this week) and piggy backing off of each other's hyperbolic panic. Nothing will ever improve in this game if this doesn't stop.
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@XLbuff said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021762#Comment_4021762
Good for you, I guess. But I was trying to express my concern about devs direction and tbh don't want to play as killer already because of pallets alone. When dev talked about slugging on The Game map during livestream like he doesn't know why it happens so often and chat spammed PALLETS, yet he saw it but openly didn't understand is kinda concerning.
Judging by the upcoming changes, things will only get worse. I don't think that you have to play optimal as the killer if the changes will go live to face bodyblocks or some other unfair stuff at times, maybe in specific scenarios, but still.
Not sure what you mean about editing. Only added part about surveys before I've seen your response and edited my post to "recent and upcoming" to be more clear and avoid misunderstanding.
The pallet update just happened and everyone is talking about it as though the game has been totally ruined. There's every indication they're going to get reduced anyway.
What direction? It's some minor buffs. They're trying to do something for players who've been unhappy, complaining, and quiting for years. You do need people to play survivor too. I play it less and less. A lot of my friends are either playing more killer or leaving. There can't just be killers.
There are already body blocks with the basekit BT though. If someone wants to use their protection on that, let them. Then down them again. That's an open invitation. And yeah, specific scenarios. I'll use my BT to body block if my rescuer is on death hook and I'm not, but for the most part, I'll take my assistance and leave. Most people will, and it's the average, normal players that need the help most.
There's already several lengthy discussions about the survey. Everyone has made their points. I'm in the camp that the survivor issues are what they want info on right now, so that's what they're collecting. There is no conspiracy against killers. This is one game, one playerbase, and many people play both roles. To think there's any bias (aside from profit) is just absurd.
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@XLbuff said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021751#Comment_4021751
I think the problem is that no matter how you play recent and upcoming changes will be noticable in a bad way. Players always abuse anything to thier advantage (I'm sure survivors will) or tend to choose the strongest options, especially when they feel unfairness. And listening developers who clearly show how they see the balance of the game, to be honest, discourages the desire to play the game as killer.
Idk about your new players takes. Most casual players do not spend time on guides and hate to be punished for something which seems logical for their role. I bet most of them don't even understand why people not on the ground after direct hit and run away with white aura and such things only get worse over time.
I don't see how any of these very scaled-down measures could hurt me as killer. They might help me a little as survivor in very specific situations, against certain types of players, but this narrative that everyone plays "optimal" isn't true. Hard tunneling happens in maybe one in every 5-10 of my survivor matches. Plenty of people already don't lean on cheese strats.
I'm pretty sure most people, when starting a game nowadays, will look up some guides, especially for a game that has basically nothing built-in,. Even more so if they're having trouble grasping it.
Again, unlike the previous ptb, there is no punishment. That's like saying the basekit BT or the burst of speed after being hit is a punishment. It's just part of the game, and Elusive would be too, if it can get to live.
And editing whole paragraphs into a response that's already been replied to is very disingenuous.
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@XLbuff said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021734#Comment_4021734
Every change which devs are preparing for the next patch (may or may not be released as it is, sure, but direction is pretty clear) will make the game harder for the killer and easier for survivors.
New killer players according to data trying to tunnel/camp etc the most because it's logical to get one player out as quickly as possible to win. Instead of the game explaining "intended way" to them and giving them some noticeable advantages for hooking different survivors they will only be met with punishments when they're just trying to kill as the killer. It's confusing and just a bad design.
The camping changes are not impressive and a new killer who doesn't know the camp meter exists is gonna learn the hard way either way.
New killer players according to data trying to tunnel/camp etc the most because it's logical to get one player out as quickly as possible to win.
Is it the most logical, or did they watch some streamers to figure out the game and learned it there? Because I started this game as a killer-only player and knew nothing but what I figured out, and I didn't tunnel, camp, or slug. I didn't even consider these things until I started playing survivor and they happened to me. I was totally puzzled by these things when I encountered them.
Instead of the game explaining "intended way"
The game is in desperate need of a better tutorial for both roles. I think everyone agrees there. But this is going to give new players an indication of what to do. If returning to the hook never reveals the location of the unhooked survivor it's no longer logical to seek them out unless you have a clear LoS. Players can still tunnel without punishment, it's just more difficult and potentially less rewarding. And if the tactic fails, those new players won't rely on it. That's the whole point.
But new players aren't the issue. They'll accept the game as they find it. It's people with thousands of hours who are too accustomed to these tactics that don't want to change.
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You think 2 minutes on the ground is a sledgehammer? Is the sledgeghammer made of foam and makes a squeaky noise when you hit something with it? Don't slug three or four people at once and you'll be okay.
And how can it sound good on paper but be rubbish in reality when the reality has yet to come?
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The incentives might not appeal to you, but what are the punishments?
New killer players would probably be the least affected if the new measures go through, because they'll just accept it as part of the game. They don't have ingrained habits yet.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021716#Comment_4021716
It's a shame too because I loved 2v8 at first. It had its issues sure but the game felt like it was 50/50 again. Then the RE chapter had to go and ruin it.
Same. But now that I have the outfit, the hair (like always) makes me feel like I have a drag wig on or something. 😭 Can we please leave the Bump Its in 2008 where they belong? However… paired with the Side Quiff? Now that's a look.
Omg haha it absolutely does have drag energy. I can't unthink that now. Idk why they chose that bright yellow color either. His regular hair, or maybe a short ponytail, would have been fine.
@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021644#Comment_4021644
I might swoon over a Dracula/Wesker duo, but that's about it, lol…
Even a 2v8-sized map could barely contain all that arrogance.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021639#Comment_4021639
Last 2v8, camping/tunneling/slugging was horrible. I had less than half the escape rate I do in the regular queue. No Legion is nice, but the addition of Dracula and PH's powers as compensation? No thank you.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021644#Comment_4021644
I'm genuinely glad you'll have a good time though. 😎 Please just pray to BHVR for me that it's all Sable and Mikaela cosmetics so I don't have to play. 🤣
I'll have a good time playing killer, yeah, but that play while you wait willl be all pain. I also had an abysmal escape last time. But I also barely touched the mode. It's probably my most hated event.
I feel the same way you do for this event. I saw the Felix cosmetic and was like, "Can I please just buy it??" I'm enjoying my tail though, even though the aura on it makes me super targetable.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021650#Comment_4021650
If its infinite so the sabbo squads with boon eponentional can abuse this hard or solo with plot twist can force it too and i doubt it will charge and be one time use so it kinda be abused to some point, not to mention the faster pick up rate the more survivors are downed isnt bad idea but it kinda nerfs hard oni and twins becasue thier powers are just slug when you can as many you can especialy oni who has more limited power and twins have no power to get across the map to downed survivor.
Two minutes for the first recovery is a long time and bleedout still exists. There's zero reasons to intentionally leave someone down that long. Survivor perks related to being in the dying state might see changes but you should be able to bring perks that interact with mechanics if you that's the build you want.
And the three people who like to 4man slug as Twins will just have to adjust. You shouldn't be able to slug a whole team without them having a chance at bouncing back.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021627#Comment_4021627
It's hard to be seen as a fair person when everything is so high stakes all the time. 😵 I don't think the anger is a conspiracy or anything, I just think it's a knee-jerk reaction to feeling attacked. A lot of people were angry about anti-tunnel/slug before they even saw what it was going to be, so they need something to blame. It's no secret that these surveys are brushed over more often than not, judging by what they ask, what the community wants, and what we ultimately receive. Even in this case, the changes attributed to the survey were pulled in record time. But the feeling is more important than the reality and there's hell to pay, despite how unreasonable it may be.
It's the same thing as the concerns about the use of the word "handholding". A tiny minority is desperate to look like marginalized victims in advance of the ptb so they can dominate the narrative, again.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021635#Comment_4021635
I liked the first iteration of Lights Out, but not the second. At least we won't have to worry about Legion in this upcoming 2v8. Though I'm not sure how I'll deal with Executioner, since I have a rough time with him even in the normal game... And Dracula has a similar attack, so I'm gonna be screwed...
I hate 2v8 but playing Dracula has me a little hyped ngl
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021088#Comment_4021088
And what are the Survivor players going to do when all the Killer players quit because BHVR never listens to their complaints?
Like it or not, you need Killer players if you want to play Dead by Daylight. Or do you want this game to end up like VHS?
Except BHVR constantly listens to their complaints. It's the survivor complaints that have been brushed off for years. "All the killer players" aren't going to quit. A few of them will struggle at their cheese tactics being reduced in ease of execution. Not even removed—reduced.
And they'll just have to do what they always tell survivors to do: adapt.
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Someone makes a joke and the victimhood goes through the roof. How does a game about torturing and murdering innocent people have such a fragile community?
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@Vess said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021473#Comment_4021473
Me too, especially with village from RE4. I fear the first district you see of it (the one with the bell and chainsaw-man) could be too small in DBD and I don't really like small maps here, so it could save it or extending some additional village locations to it to make it bigger.
The part on the lake with all the wooden structures would be perfect for that.
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The top 5 mesh with my matches except Ghoul. I'm very lucky to rarely see him. And I can count on my fingers how many total times I've see a Krasue.
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@ImperatorHaze said:
Regardless of the role you play, when a game relies on two opposing sides, it’s important to gather feedback from both perspectives. The survey would have been more effective if it included some of the common complaints about killers to better understand how widespread those issues are among players.
As someone who plays both roles, I see the challenges from each side. From the survivor’s perspective, most issues arise with specific killers rather than the core mechanics. On the killer side, however, certain base kits present clear imbalances, while survivors feel more consistent overall.
I believe targeted adjustments should be made—buffing underpowered killers and rebalancing those that are overperforming—to bring more fairness and depth to the gameplay. Survivors, in my opinion, don’t currently need major changes, but refining killer mechanics would help create a more balanced experience that reflects the advantages survivors have received in recent updates.
I believe targeted adjustments should be made—buffing underpowered killers and rebalancing those that are overperforming—to bring more fairness and depth to the gameplay.
I agree with this part, but I'm pretty sure they know this. The specific killer issues they'll already have data on, and it's not going to be many people quitting for that. Even here on the forum, the complaints about killers kits are endless, yet people either still play as them or switch to another killer. They still play the game.
I don't agree about survivors needing nothing though. You shouldn't be able to slug four people and end a match two minutes in.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
I will have to agree on this. It has been awful for the survivor side, and it hasn't really been great for killer either.
You'd either had to bang out the gens, or have pretty much zero chances if you interacted with anything void-related as survivor, or risk losing a lot of valuable time as killer if you went in there to grab the haunts.
I agree that the BP awards has been abysmal, much due to the fact that the event offerings are personal, and not stackable, and that the event BP doesn't factor in other offerings, like BPS and anniversary cakes, like it used to in the past.The only fun thing I have had with the event is playing Scratched Mirror Myers. The haunts makes it a lot more fun, and you have a sort of natural slowdown with that playstyle, since the survivors will likely be on edge.
I only went to make Huants for the Quests and I did it on matches where there were two survivors left and 4 gens to do, so guaranteed wins when I had time to kill. It sucks the Quest unlockables (and convenience) are the only incentives to actually interact with the event elements. Otherwise, I smash pumpkins while I wait for the last survivor on the hook to die.
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It's been rough, yeah. I've played it for the Quest cosmetics but if they had been for characters I don't use I don't think I would have bothered.
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Hear hear, I whole-heartedly agree. I think we can get them a good survey in place by 2037. Killers have been victimized for so long. The poor dears have no power at all. I heard the devs even make jokes about them! Can you believe it? The horror. All the while, day after day they tell us how hard they stuggle for their back to back to back 4ks, and how they almost lost a match. It's high time we treat them just as well as survivors are treated.
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@Memesis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021329#Comment_4021329
A man of culture. That final re5 mercenaries map is my favorite. I heard a long time ago that it was cut from the main game, which makes sense. Prolonging out the final fight with wesker after the plane crashes in the volcano with the prison as the final section would have thrown the pacing. What a shame :(
It was a fun, wacky map. Re5 Mercs was just generally great. I played it regularly for over 10 years. I wish they'd make a whole game of just Mercs with a bunch of maps and every character. I'd leave DbD for that.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021298#Comment_4021298
High MMR 4-man SWFs not only play optimally, but they've also optimized communication.
Your average SWF that you see from Low to Mid MMR is intidistinguishible from a team of Solo Queue players. Streamers, and the DBD community, have tried very hard to paint this narrative that all SWFs are equal and that Solo Queue players are bad. The reality is that neither is true.
The laundry list of mechanics they circumvent for the killer must be incredibly small. Unless, of course, you meant exploit.
It's funny because the more people I'm in a party with, the less serious I play. I'm only dead serious in soloq, but in a 4man, it's butt slaps and memeing.
I really wonder what people think they'll achieve with this scapegoating. All people do is complain about how miserable soloq is. Is the goal to make everyone as unhappy as they are?
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The village would be rad. So would the castle. Prison from RE5 mercenaries would also be neat. Any locale from RE8 as well.
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This is hilarious though.
But it shouldn't really be a surprise after TWD chapter.
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Yes, do tunnel in the ptb. Do the thing they're trying to discourage and show them the measures aren't enough so they increase them. That'll show them.
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@sinisterstubbs77 said:
I'd venture to say that it doesn't really exist in any way that consistently works, as they claim. (bhvr) The other day I was playing as Singularity for the very 1st time. I had just lost 4 straight playing as 2 other killers facing SWF's. I thought, well, I'll try something new, in fact so new I only leveled him to level 10 so only 3 perks, and just maybe I'll get a kind of practice type run. Not a 100% expectation to win, just not the meta swat teams I had just lost to 4 times. The result? A gen-rushing meta-squad, 2 in the 90's and 2 p-100's that were all too happy to body block, flash spam, and tea bag.
Relatable. I tried Knight before unlocking him in a trial—a trial!—and had a similar experience. I get that there's a base MMR amongst all your killers but at least allow one match with potates to let people figure out the powers.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021101#Comment_4021101
Sorry, I should have grouped my responses but didn't refresh.
Conceptually I don't have an issue in an asym of one side having more of an onus to perform. That the killer role should have more comeback potential I don't think is inherently contradictory even if I personally don't like it.
My issue is that with such a stance survivors who are good or perform well have to win more. If killer has more comeback potential, or has an easier skill floor to skill ceiling, or has their handheld more by default, the only way such a game can possibly be balanced is for the skill balance to shift over time.
I do think the killer should have more comeback potential and more power, but I also think the survivors don't have quite enough. The argument that one survivor making a mistake should determine the match while the killer can makes endless mistakes and win is too far.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021010#Comment_4021010
It's such an unprofessional term but also one that was used endlessly in the arguments circling around the ptbAs you said, it was getting used endlessly. They're just picking up the terms that the community uses. Which isn't new and I don't think it necessarily shows AI.
And now they're paying for not editing the language by having everyone micro-analyze it.Again, something that isn't new, micro-analyzing is a forum tradition (though I've been critical of BHVR for being particularly sloppy in their terminology this year).
I don't care much either way, but I dont think it's a far stretch to believe. Using it to sift through and distill a whole bunch of squabbling isn't a terrible use for it. AI is everywhere now, so why not?
They are definitely not good with words and what gets put out to the public. The amount of typos, grammatical errors, and just plain bad wording I see in-game never ceases to shock me.
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@Metagamer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020042#Comment_4020042
In my opinion, bad plays should lose you games yes. Dropping pallets that incidentally create really big deadzones is something you should be paying attention to. Bad players should lose, not get the opportunity to make 3 more bad plays before they get lightly slapped on the wrist.
I'd be fine with this logic if it went both ways but it doesn't. I can play like trash as killer, get no hooks, and still win in end game by slugging everyone. That shouldn't be possible if my whole match was bad plays. Yet it is, and survivors have no equivalent comebacks. That's the unevenness of this argument: the punishments aren't just a little unbalanced, they are severely skewed towards killer.
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@Munky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021051#Comment_4021051
See this is where the "time" argument falls apart for me. Cause I play consistently during the day. As in the time you say is "chill". And I get nothing but tryhard full meta styptic genrush squads. Not many pure solo lobbies. When I do, I will instantly notice, cause I will have exagerated my playstyle and 4 ppl will be on the ground somehow…
I remember my last lobby, when I quit, cause it is exactly that lobby that made me quit cause I see these types of lobbies all the time. It was a comp team I saw for the THIRD time that same day. All playing 100% efficient, obviously on discord, cause my stealth killer made them pre run before I got anywhere near (much fun). They don't even play by comp rules, even tho they claim to be "practicing". What is the point of these matches other than to just go afk in a corner, cause the outcome will be exactly the same. And no, its not about not wanting to lose, its about having the feeling that you have a chance, as in motivating me to play that match. I couldn't care less if my KR dropped to 40% or lower, I just want to have fun again.
The one thing we can agree upon is that we NEVER see a match in between. I would sign up for a permanent 2k right here and now if I could. Of course if that means im having fun… Obviously the MMR is so flawed that it is constantly trying to compensate a 3-4K with a 0-1k. just to keep the KR where it is supposed to be.
It's not always chill, not by a long shot, it's just more chill. The night has zero chill. I also bounce between regions and have drastically different experiences from one to the other.
I also want every match to be a 2k or 3k (and that would land you pretty much at the target 60%.) That feels even and fair to me. But it's so damn rare.
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I had a similar issue that I'll add to this report. I got stuck in a locker on Autohaven, not during Nightfall. I was able to teleport out though.
https://youtu.be/F1r9vOnG9a4?si=pqbxfkSg-ORdgMlI -
@Royval said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019522#Comment_4019522
they literally give you free escape during end game lol back then it was impossible to do without borrowed time. Why do you still get bt and haste for free during endgame I’ll never know.
A killer can perform abysmally all match and still secure not only kills in end game, but a win. Why should end game be killer-sided in every possible way when the survivor completed their primary objective to get there? A lot of survivor perks already disable as it is, along with the anti-camp. If a team can pull off a good play at the end they deserve the save.
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@Munky said:
I completely agree with the intent of this post. But there is absolutely consitentcy. Wherever and however it is, there are evenings where I get 10 tryhard Blights/Nurses in a row. Full meta perks/addons and mori. So there must be something behind the curtains (code) that is consitent there. I just wish BHVR would show their code at this point, so we can see how it works.
Maybe it is just bad luck, but I am a 2016 veteran, I know the game inside out, so I always assume im towards the top percentage of players. (easy to dismiss I know)
That said, there are also plenty of sessions where I question reality. Lose one game, get a potato lobby and win hard > get another tryhard full meta lobby with 4x styptics and lose hard > … repeat. again for about 10 matches in a row.
For me its hard to judge the game and how it works. Ive been playing since beta and I still don't know. I think what we can say for sure is that it isnt making ppl 'want to play' the game.
So it is rly hard to tell how exactly the MMR affects us as players. Either way I quit the game, Im not having fun anymore, haven't for a loooooong time. and its not because I got bored of the game, cause Im still here on the forums browsing, checking the games updates and craving for more…
That said, there are also plenty of sessions where I question reality. Lose one game, get a potato lobby and win hard > get another tryhard full meta lobby with 4x styptics and lose hard > … repeat. again for about 10 matches in a row.
This is how it often goes for me. I guess you could argue it's consistent in its inconsistency. That's not ideal though. I don't want 4k steamrolls at 5gens anymore than I wan't 0k beat downs. The goal should be somewhere in between those two, yet the 2ks and 3ks are my rarest matches.
My results have more to do with time of day and whether there's an event going on. Currently, if I hop on regular mode at 2pm, it'll likely be chill, but if I play Haunted at 4am it's a sweatfest regardless of the role I play. It's almost impossible for me to not get meta parties or sweaty killers during psycho hours.
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@Firellius said:
Do you think they might've had community response parsed by AI?
This was my immediate thought when I saw the notes, particularly the use of the term "hand holding." It's such an unprofessional term but also one that was used endlessly in the arguments circling around the ptb, so it's logical they rammed everyone's complaints through AI and it regurgitated that term out.
And now they're paying for not editing the language by having everyone micro-analyze it.
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Lovely, thanks!
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@Vess said:
The funny thing is that before I started to view the forum and the reddits, tbagging was just a positive way of expression towards others in my mind. Like many survivors when they meet first time in the game - tbag to say "hi" or when you unhook and heal someone, they can tbag to say "thx" - I see it often all the time. Then I read those topic about it and it was a culture shock 😮 I can only imagine that there are some casual people that don't view any media, they tbag at the gate to say "Thank you for the match Mr. Killer", oblivious to the fact the person have now emotional surge until they get a end game chat about it.
To other survivors It's usually friendly, yes. Occasionally it isn't, but the context makes that pretty clear. With killers, it's hard to explain but there's a vibe to it. You can say thanks to a killer by tbagging. It's how you do it, and how they're acting too. If the killer is standing by the gates being non-hostile and you walk over, give them your item, and tbag once or twice, that's a thanks.
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It's really unfortunate and you can't fix it. It's people. These are mostly grown adults—many middle-aged—and if they don't have empathy in something as unimportant as a video game by now, they've unlikely to suddenly develop it.
I am that honorable killler who gets tbagged, and I'm also that non-toxic, no-flashlight survivor getting hit on hook. Much like I'm these two things, I assume the hook hitting killers are often the same people as the tbagging survivors. The attitudes will show up in both roles if you're that sort of person.
But I encounter plenty of other chill players. I love friendly interactions at the exit gates, when both sides are mature enough to accept outcomes and be cool. Those sorts of interactions do a good job of reminding me that plenty of people are cool and understand their opponenets are human.
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@chknTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020952#Comment_4020952
Brother what are you on about? Thats a whole nother sentence you just shoved in his mouth.
DbD gotta be the only place where you can ask for better Surveys and itll somehow devolve into US VS THEM nonsense, like how is this even an argument there is ZERO downside to having the survey have Killer issues as valid options.Believing the game is biased towards survivors for no reason at all is illogical. If the survey currently leans toward survivor issues then that's the data they're interested in collecting. You don't think BHVR has way more info in front of them that this is based on?
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@TicTac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020801#Comment_4020801
But would that really be bad?
The problem would be people who dont acknowledge that things need to be balanced for low and high mmr at the same time. Its completely fair to say that some player dont understand some problems, but its wrong to say that their opinion doesnt matter bc of it.
There will always be new player or some who dont want to sweat, so its obvious that you need to improve their experience. "Get good" or statshaming will always be there, but thats just toxic people.
And there will always be people who reach "high mmr" and they need a fair environment. So both opinions are valid.
Without stats people cant differentiate between each other. And when both groups argue in the same thread, they both think the other one talks completely bs, bc their experience is obviously different.
I don't know how helpful that would truly be.
For one, if you've played this game long enough, you've likely already seen mutiple MMR brackets. Your different killers will be in different ones depending on how you perform with them. If you play with friends as survivor and some are better and some are worse than you, they'll likely be dragging you around too. We've also all been backfill before.
Second, we all know this matchmaking is terrible. I never know what I'll get from one game to the next. There's zero consistency, and I can also tell when my opponenent/s are above or below my level. So what does your MMR even tell you when it's this loose?
Third, the stats page appears to count survivor abandons and DCs as non-deaths that don't affect MMR so how accurate can any of it be anyway?
And last, it will be very cliquey and people will 100% use it to invalidate each other. Everyone will have a visible team they think the game should revolve around. This week I've been hit with the "You must be low MMR" and "you're probably keeping your MMR low on purpose," two forum classics. I can't imagine how much worse it would get if we had numbers to brandish.
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@BasementDweller said:
They need to remove the ability for new accounts to make posts or post gifs/images
Yeah I don't understand why they can. At least give the members a text-based comment threshold to hit before being able to create posts.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020943#Comment_4020943
There's no valid reason. No VALID reason. There should be options for both sides. Point blank period.
Ok man. The team hates killers and loves survivors. That makes perfect business sense.