cogsturning
cogsturning
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@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025458#Comment_4025458
I don't agree. Its primary effect only happens if you hit with a basic attack, which is most used attack of the weaker killers (with some exceptions like the Spirit). As someone said, if you are bloodlusting you are losing the chase and even if you do, sometimes you are forced to break the pallet or you will be there for eternity.
Also, if we are nerfing something because it can ruin a whole build, we should nerf many survivors perks and items, since they can counter completely some killers and perks. For example, if someone brings We Gonna Live forever against a Twins or an Oni they are going to counter the slug pressure these killers can make; Iron Will against Spirit and the Knight; Urban Evasion against Hag, and the list goes on.
Franklin's handicaped how powerfull items could be, specially Medkits and Flashlights. Current iteration of Franklin's have almost no use since its just a minimal annoyance for survivors. The item don't lose charges so you can comeback anytime to get it back, specially when the killer is not around. And camp an items doesn't seem the smartest choice for me.
As someone said, if you are bloodlusting you are losing the chase
Yes, exactly. That's the point. M1 doesn't automatically equal skill or outplaying. Bloodlust is the opposite of skill yet it'll get you a free hit. So will bad RNG, dead zones, or just luck. Not everything that happens in this game is some shining example of skill.
And if you're running Franklin's, you're going to use M1s since that's the whole reason to bring it. Not sure what the point of the weaker killer line is. The perk works from M1s so that's what you're using.
we should nerf many survivors perks and items, since they can counter completely some killers
Except those are much more limited examples, and that's random luck. The killer can see the survivors in the lobby. You know you'll get value if everyone has a medkit. And Franklin's works against all survivor items universally. They have no idea who the killer is and can't pick perks accordingly. Probably isn't Twins though.
And I gotta say, I love how Twins is now the token example for anything and everything involving slugging, including the ptb, despite being the least popular killer.
The item don't lose charges so you can comeback anytime to get it back, specially when the killer is not around
Posted my KR for the month with this perk (out of 200 matches, incidentally) and you're the second person to explain it to me as if I've never used. Amazing.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025514#Comment_4025514
"Yet you can still manage a measly M1 that way despite its cheapness, can't you? A single M1 is not a show of skill."
Then tell me what is a show of skill. I'm real interested to hear this.
"Lol are you sure because I said I run Lightborn? My whole build largely revolves around countering hook denials."
You haven't given me any other rational reason. It just appears you like your items and don't like things countering them. Offer me an actual reason otherwise.
" It takes an age to cleanse them all, especially if Pentimento and Thrill are in play."
As it should. You're literally removing their perks from the match rofl. So m1's are easy but woah time to cleanse a totem, that's a lot? Cleansing the totem that takes literally and objectively zero skill is removing the perks while m1's with Franklins simply makes you pick them up again, they haven't been deleted. More reward, zero skill.
Risk is involved in anti totem perks because they actually remove killer perks. Franklins is not removing your items, you can just pick them up again. Perks are also more impactful than just your items.
"Just the amount of time survivors waste cleansing is an added benefit to the killer in exchange for the slow loss of those perks."
This is a lack of understanding of killer vs survivor time. Killers time is x4 as much as survivors.
" You just hit someone"
Lol. "just hit someone". That's like telling a survivor just win all your chases bro and you have nothing to complain about. It's that easy man.
" It takes an age to cleanse them all, especially if Pentimento and Thrill are in play. "
No one runs Penti after it was gutted.
"even though hex totems are way less common than items and the Franklin's dice roll would be more likely to be profitable than Small Game (and talk about a perk no one uses)."
and why do you think that is that no one runs anti totem perks? It's because hexes are generally bad in the first place. They've made them so weak and easy to find that survivors don't even need to run a perk to easily counter them. Items at least required Franklins to counter them and took one of their perk slots, survivors are getting their counter free through balancing.
"There was a post awhile about most hated killer perks when playing survivor and Franklin's was a popular choice. There's a reason it's been nerfed. "
So dislike means it's justified? Killers universally hate Exhaustion perks, are those justified in getting gutted as well? Them not liking Franklins isn't a rational reason unless you think anything one side in large dislikes needs change. If you're gonna go that route we got a lot to change that I doubt you'd agree with. It's nerf had nothing to do with that anyway, it was a technicality from Fog Vials being introduced with charges that with how the coding for the game is done didn't work with Franklins. Nothing to do with disliking.
You haven't given me any other rational reason. It just appears you like your items and don't like things countering them. Offer me an actual reason otherwise.
I have. What you currently get for an M1 is a dropped item the survivor can retrieve. That's an adequate reward. What you used to get was eventual item depletion. One perk that could remove every item with very little effort. I'm still waiting for you to give me a survivor equivalent to that. Which perk can at least temporarily disable killer add-ons?
Franklins is not removing your items, you can just pick them up again
Are we pretending that old Franklin's didn't deplete your item's charges?
I mean, this hole thing comes off as you missing the old version of a perk and not wanting to accept that it was changed. Franklin's was changed because of Fog Vials, yes, which were then changed to have charges. So Franklin's could come back, yet it hasn't.
Perks are also more impactful than just your items
Are they? Because a medkit with a syringe is better to me than Self-Care, and a commodious toolbox with a wire spoil and a BNP is better to me than Deja Vu.
No one runs Penti after it was gutted
You keep using absolutes that just aren't true. I just went against someone using Pentimento maybe a week ago. My last batch of survivor matches included a Krasue using Franklin's. I still encounter a decent amount of users.
That's like telling a survivor just win all your chases bro and you have nothing to complain about
If a single hit is a challenge for you I don't know what to tell you.
Killers universally hate Exhaustion perks, are those justified in getting gutted as well?
Fine by me, but if we're being fair while also affecting a whole classification and not just one perk, either aura read or gen regress has gotta go too.
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Weird. I have server crashes a lot but no penalties.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025470#Comment_4025470
Yeah, I find it strange if anyone has the survivor as the comeback role. I think this might be lumping what get dubbed second chance perks with comebacks.
The ability to potentially snowball, or to grind the game down by protecting the last gens, is pretty unique to the killer side. A short string of fortunate events for the killer can upend everything that has happened before that.
Yeah I dont think I've ever heard this. One time use Unbreakable doesn't win you a match out of the blue. Same with DS or DH. It usually just prolongs it. Does everyone not know that the killer gets stronger as the match goes on and the resources dwindle?
A short string of fortunate events for the killer can upend everything that has happened before that.
I've felt the sting of this as survivor many, many times.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025458#Comment_4025458
"First, you don't have to do much outplaying to land a hit. You could easily bloodlust your way to a single hit."
Lol no. If you are bloodlusting, you are losing the game.
"It's lazy because that one hit could potentially destroy a whole build. I'm guilty of this as a Lightborn user, but that only ruins one potential item/build (and I'd also be fine with that perk receiving an adjustment). If you had a survivor team who has two healing builds revolving around medkits, a gen build revolving around a toolbox, and a saving build revolving around a flashlight, you could derail the whole team's playstyles just from landing a total of four hits. Yet we have no survivor perk that reduces the usefulness of killer add-ons or perks because you hit them with a pallet once or something."
This makes no sense. Builds counter builds, that's how the game works. You're arguing to not have things counter things. I bring a full hex build and a survivor brings a map or Counterforce/Small Game. Is that a problem? Completely nullifies my entire build as killer. There isn't a problem with that. Also, the old version of Franklins didn't delete your item in one hit, you pick up and can still use it. You act like one hit and boom no item. You're also downplaying requiring a hit, it requires the survivor to be outplayed in the first place.
You also gave zero explanation for how it's "lazy". You just don't like perks countering things.
These takes are just wrong.
If you are bloodlusting, you are losing the game.
Yet you can still manage a measly M1 that way despite its cheapness, can't you? A single M1 is not a show of skill.
You just don't like perks countering things.
Lol are you sure because I said I run Lightborn? My whole build largely revolves around countering hook denials.
Builds counter builds, that's how the game works. You're arguing to not have things counter things. I bring a full hex build and a survivor brings a map or Counterforce/Small Game. Is that a problem? Completely nullifies my entire build as killer
Except these scenarios are not the same.
You could bring a map and those perks and end up with zero hex totems being used. And even if there's a full totem build, do you just hit the killer with a pallet or win a chase and a hex totem disappears? It takes an age to cleanse them all, especially if Pentimento and Thrill are in play. Just the amount of time survivors waste cleansing is an added benefit to the killer in exchange for the slow loss of those perks. Franklin's had nothing like that. You just hit someone and their item starts depleting. The killer can also see four survivors all with items in the lobby. If the lobbies were blind, you'd have a slightly better argument, even though hex totems are way less common than items and the Franklin's dice roll would be more likely to be profitable than Small Game (and talk about a perk no one uses).
There was a post awhile about most hated killer perks when playing survivor and Franklin's was a popular choice. There's a reason it's been nerfed.
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@Metagamer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021101#Comment_4021101
I'm a little late to this, but are you saying there's no such thing as survivor comebacks? You have to be deliberately playing dumb or trying to maliciously spread misinformation at this point. Survivors have SIGNIFICANTLY more comeback potential than the killer and it's not even remotely close unless it's specifically someone like Billy who if you play insanely perfectly than yes at any point you can just down everyone back to back across the map (not practical nor easy though).
Like this is literally been a meme in the community since UB was added with how survivors can come back from literally ANYTHING. idk how willfully ignorant you have to be to actually type that out and think this is okay to post. Make sure we're playing the same game before going onto the forum discussion for the wrong game.There are no survivor comebacks as massive and common as killer ones. A killer can get 0 hooks and still get a 3k or 4k in end game and it's not even rare. Happens to me in both roles. Tell me the survivor equivalent of that. Everyone on death hook at 5 gens yet they somehow get them all done and win?
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025444#Comment_4025444
"instead of being a super lazy way to delete survivor items from the match"
How exactly is this "lazy? Requires a hit, aka outplaying. What's an example of literally anything more? 2 hits?
First, you don't have to do much outplaying to land a hit. You could easily bloodlust your way to a single hit.
It's lazy because that one hit could potentially destroy a whole build. I'm guilty of this as a Lightborn user, but that only ruins one potential item/build (and I'd also be fine with that perk receiving an adjustment). If you had a survivor team who has two healing builds revolving around medkits, a gen build revolving around a toolbox, and a saving build revolving around a flashlight, you could derail the whole team's playstyles just from landing a total of four hits. Yet we have no survivor perk that reduces the usefulness of killer add-ons or perks because you hit them with a pallet once or something.
Old Franklin's didn't bother me much as survivor because I run BtL and could just refill mine and other players' items, but the change was the right one regardless of why it happened. The perk now needs to work with other perks to be useful. It can still be very powerful, you just have to be more committed to the bit.
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@crogers271 said:
I don't know. People have complained about tunneling for years, they are finally listening to those complaints. People complained about the last PTB, and BHVR listened to those complaints. Seems much more like they are trying to find the line between groups who have different desires for the game.
Some of the bugs and PR has been abysmal recently, that's true.
You're not allowed to be pragmatic. Only doomposting is permitted right now.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025430#Comment_4025430
For the record "Undone" is currently the 4th highest win rate killer perk at the moment on Nightlight. A literal F tier perk. Does that mean Undone is a good perk? No, it doesn't. The win rates attached to perks don't mean much. Correlation/Causation.
Just because you win with the perk, doesn't mean it contributed to those wins to any significant degree.
I mean, I'm the one playing and they're my stats, and I can say it's directly connected to me doing well. It just has to work with my whole build instead of being a super lazy way to delete survivor items from the match. It's currently more valuable to me if they continue to pick up their items instead of leaving them for dead.
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I don't understand the destruction of styptics. I've never used one as survivor and I've never complained about them as killler. It was pretty obvious when someone used one unless you're clueless. We can change counting to 5 to counting to 3 or something if it's really needed.
The syringe just needed a numbers change, if anything at all. It's a goofy rework.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025252#Comment_4025252
That perk only works if you go against greedy goblins survivors that cant play without their items and thats all it offers maybe with vecnar aura perk but you need spend two perk slots for just very little aura read which nowhere to hide or barbecue and chilly do 10 times better and more.
I find even dear stalker better info than that perk combo or same because its just 3 dam seconds but if you pay atention you have info on one survivor every 30 seconds which is nice thing.
My whole build synergizes with it and that seems to be working good for me.
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Kinda depends for me. Bots are super useful for tasks, they're just garbage in chase. But if I ignore the bot as killer, the gens will get done. Two DCs will usually make me pull back. Three is an automatic out for the remaining person. I've found most killers also do this. Morally, I don't know how you don't, but I've had a few.
As survivor, I'm okay with one bot as well. They're, at the very least, a good distraction. I don't consider it an auto loss if there's one bot. I've won plenty of matches with DCs.
I had a match the other day against a Spirit where someone DCed early. The killer body blocked me in the basement and slugged me repeatedly for no obvious reason. Felt like I was being griefed. Then she let us go with a slug race. Turns out it was because of the DC, so I guess she was just screwing around.
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024891#Comment_4024891
I totally agree with you! Most of the content creators are killer mains and they are really vocal about the changes - I hate it.
Hipocrisy is so out there - killers say there should be harshier punishments for people DCing, but don't understand why people are DCing. They don't understand that surviviors might not like the killer they play, the way they play. How miserable the experience is - "they DC and they destroy my BIG GUY experience, should be punished more for it!" and they play blight with 4 rergession perks, tunneling without a valid reason.
There are killers that need to tunnel and there are killers that don't. Surviviors understand that - if you tunnel them as a trapper they're fine with it.
I really want bhvr to implement those anti-tunnel changes, I really want experience to be better for surviviors so I can try to get my friends back to playing DBD with me.
Oh, I think they understand, they just don't care. They need real people trapped in a hopeless match with them to feed their egos. I don't DC but I get why people do and I don't blame them.
I've also lost a lot of friends and am playing more and more killer because of that. But the killers who don't care about the survivor experience continue to be the loudest. Even now, the ptb feedback section is full of criticism from brand new forum accounts, yet many of the typical survivor posters have been strangely absent. The survivor mains just aren't as loud or as emotionally extreme as the killer mains, and as much as they like to say this forum is "survivor-sided" that certainly isn't the case right now.
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I'm getting crazy value out of Franklin's right now and would hate to see it changed.
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024953#Comment_4024953
So should protection not working when it's on 1-2 gens left, but I don't think you'll agree with me.
What are the scenarios?
If you tunneled someone out at 5 gens whatever punishment/protections you generated should remain, even if you can't manage another kill the whole time. You made a choice to shove someone out so pay for it.
But if you have no kills at 1 gen then I'm okay with the extra protections falling off. I think most people expect a killer to become desperate and understand why. Chances are, if they're in that bad of shape, they won't loose LoS, so most of the protections aren't super useful at that point anyway.
It's kind of the same issue as the last ptb, finding the line at where things should or shouldn't work. That's the most challenging part of this, as there are endless ways that things can go down. What should or shouldn't be active in end game? Should protections fall of at all, and at one gen or two? Should it depend on how many hooks you have at said point? Should protections shorten in length as gens get completed?
But the two things I 100% want gone are tunneling at 5 gens and slugging to supress hatch, and I'm not hopeful about either of those being resolved.
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@Dokta_Carter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024949#Comment_4024949
"You dont have high mmr" incoming(this is a joke)
Im glad your keeping match notes btw!
It may be a joke but I get hit with it regularly, regardless of which role I'm discussing. It's an easy, lazy dismissal. But what does it even matter? As if everyone not in upper MMR (aka the vast majority of players) are just peasants who don't get to contribute to discussions.
It would be nice if the stat page did it for me. I'd love to see a breakdown of all the killers I face as survivor, and the varying outcomes on my killer matches as well.
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@indieeden7 said:
IMO the devs should shift the focus from rewarding spreading hooks (for now) and instead focus on punishing explicit tunnelling. The last anti-tunnel PTB had something like this where if someone was dead before 6 hooks, gen repair speeds were buffed and gen regression was disabled. This iteration was certainly much too punishing on killers and allowed for survivors who went next to screw killers big time. That being said, I believe this solution to be much more feasible if adjusted properly, rather than adding new status effects, reworking perks, etc. as it just makes a game that's already complicated, even more complicated.
At the very least, if someone is dead at 5 gens up there should be a large bonus to repair speeds. Everyone says tunneling is gross at 5 gens yet no one seems to want anything meaningful done about it.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024842#Comment_4024842
I do think its more perception than anything else (outside of new killer releases). All of our data sources are limited, but going off what we have:
Nightlight shows the highest killer percentages at almost 6%, so 1 in 17 games.
This jives with their data release for Japan, with the top killer being around 7% (Japan was a little more extreme than the world, with multiple killers over 5%, but even then nothing that would rise to the level of match, after match, after match).
I've never seen a streamer or content creator post a video where they actually demonstrated hitting a narrow range of killers over a sizable number of matches.
And now with the stats page, which might be wrong on kill rates because of the abandons, but it should at least give people a way to post examples - I haven't seen anyone post something like 'here's my last 20 matches, 75% just three killers'.
I'm actually surprised we haven't seen this, I'd think by just random chance this would happen to someone.
Looking through my match notes (which I've only been keeping since June), the only instance of a really crazy imbalance was indeed a release day. I played 20 survivor matches and 17 were Springtrap. Contrast that with Krasue, who I've seen a grand total of 14 times. So I've seen more Springtraps just on his release day than I've seen of Krasue, period, even when she was overtuned.
I also just counted back to my last Nurse match. 192 matches ago. So I over-guessed. I have actually not seen a single Nurse in my 181 survivor matches for the last 30 days.
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@MDRSan said:
I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m officially at the point where that threat doesn’t mean anything anymore because it’s been pulled out so often.
Let’s flip that around shall we? We can throw these changes away if they remove Blight, Nurse, and Ghoul from the game - sound fair? I personally like playing them sometimes myself but if it’ll stop the constant killer complaining then I suppose I could live with it.
Bro it's so boring and tiring. Every time any positive change is proposed for survivors this old chestnut gets spammed. But there'll also be a simultaneous thread stating all the killers are already Blight and Nurse.
So which is it? Are they all currently Blight and Nurse or will they all become Blight and Nurse?
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@Dokta_Carter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024796#Comment_4024796
Arguably even in High MMR, you'd have to be in like the top percentage?
Because I know mid-high mmr players prefer not to, and they often play other killers? At least according to the usual people on the fourms talking about their mains?
I've played 181 survivor matches in the last 30 days. There were maybe three or four Blights, possibly one Nurse. I play at different times, in different regions, with different people, so probably with varied matchmaking to account for different MMR levels. I see 5k+ hour players. I see p100 killlers. Yet I don't see these supposed numerous Blights and Nurses.
And yeah, true, I don't really see a long line of Nurse and Blight mains here either, yet they're somehow in every survivor match. An odd discrepancy.
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@Dokta_Carter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024676#Comment_4024676
Honestly I want to know how these people keep getting nurse/blight/ghoul every match?
Even way back some people claimed they only saw blight/nurse?
No idea. I know not everyone in this forum is an upper MMR player which, according to the ancient legends, is a dark and forsaken land of all Blights and Nurses.
Looking at my stats, my last 10 survivor matches were against these:
- Pyramidhead
- Dredge
- Huntress
- Wesker
- Krasue
- Pig
- Gunslinger
- Knight
- Springtrap
- Freddy
Not a single repeat. No Nurses, Blights, or Ghouls. I never play as those three characters either.
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Sure. They want their content to be watched, and no one wants to watch someone lose. That's not how you stay popular. And the ones who have large followings will continue to push their views through those followers. The only solution is for BHVR to stop listening to them and pay attention to regular players playing normally, and that's not likely to happen unless some of this makes it to live. A huge chunk of people either can't or wont play the ptb.
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Survivor is instant for me in the morning and early daytime. Killer is instant for me in the evening and late night. Survivors party up during the evenings because more people are available.
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I've wanted this as at least an event for some time.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024599#Comment_4024599
The whole reason for pinhead being worse is because of his license holder cutting his contract with bhvr and as repay they will nerf him he has not so huge part of comunity likeing him as demogorgan where was more possible he would come back and another potencial for further teamwork or another licensed dlc ahead of as, tell who survivors see more with exitement demogorgan or pinhead i think the answer is pretty clear.
ThIs is such a weird theory. How does this benefit BHVR at all? This would only make their fan base mad for no reason (and there's enough of that already). The license holder isn't going to care if a game character gets nerfed. This sort of vendetta could only make sense if the license holder stood to loose money somehow.
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I never see Nurse. Blights are rare. I get a pretty good mix.
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Syringes are the most perplexing of all changes. The wording makes it seems like it's meant to be weaker but idk about that. They were fine as is.
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@Raimue said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024155#Comment_4024155
You act like during all this time, 3 gens aren't being completed while I'm locked chasing the same guy who has others body block for them, i slow down hitting the person blocking… like, the game flow turns into "congratulations, you've hooked someone twice, and now the exit gates are open and the other 3 rush down the hook and body block so you don't even get a single kill!"
How are they doing three gens if multiple survivors are involved in the chase?
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I definitely lobby judge but it has more to do with cosmetics or items than anything. If you're a Nea or Feng in a bright cosmetic I expect you to be cracked. Default cosmetics, especially the blood-covered ones, make me sweat. Unless it's intentionally deceptive, it tells me you probably haven't played much. Keys also make me nervous.
But I'd never treat anyone differently in-game. I do the most for anyone until they prove they don't deserve it.
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Just watched some streamer tunnel people out at 5 gens on the ptb. Don't worry, the crutches are still intact.
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The portal room looks way more engaging now. Sad to see that stupid little ledge people thought they could hide on is gone though.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023825#Comment_4023825
Frankly, double or triple (if with blood rush) sprint burst is the best anti tunnel ever, especially for survivors who can’t loop for 18 sec for syringe to take effect. Clearly it’s still extremely op add-on you can use as anti tunnel protection. Nothing changed a lot if not became worse
Except you could also use the syringe altruistically on a teammate who was being targeted. That was a big benefit.
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@chknTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024017#Comment_4024017
I already listed above what i think the game needs
Bring down the top tier killers (Blight/Nurse)
Bring up solo queue (comms example, chat wheel)
Fix Bugs, add QoL
And then after all this, they can actually probably balance the game from here.
Whether people would be outraged or not doesnt matter, cause most people agree that top killers need to be brought down and solo queue needs to be brought up, after that they can refine the game way better.
Blight/Nurse being too strong negatively effects alot of weaker killers due to them balancing killer perks around that
Solo Queue being too weak allows SWFs to have really busted stuff cause it isnt nearly as strong without the coordination to abuse it.Yeah, I agree with all these things.
But outrage does matter, because outrage, particularly from popular voices, is why we can never get meaningful changes. The only way we will get that change is if BHVR stops letting a loud minority dictate their actions.
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@chknTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024008#Comment_4024008
Im sorry but that line was obviously hyperbole and wasnt meant to be taken extremely literally, of course SOMEONE will always complain but when i say 'No one would complain' its compared to this, its an idea more people can get behind, Solo Queue isnt strong, most people can agree on this, therefor they can also agree that buffing solo queue in a way that doesnt affect SWFs is agreeable, it wouldnt be like this where nearly everyone can agree this patch is cheeks, not to mention the positives from closing that gap for future balancing is immeasurable, cause they could balance survivor as a whole instead of having to consider how it impacts SWF / Solo Queue.
Again, I want the wheel. I'd love to have a reason to play soloq again. But this is a monkey paw wish.I know there would be crazy outrage and what we'd end up with is, instead of what we have now, with some survivors being potentially stronger than others thanks to Discord/console chat, all would be brought down to a lower level. I'd think we'd see nerfs to gen perks, gen times, exhaustion. Pretty much everything.
If we could just get the wheel without "what do the killers get?? 😭😭😭" sure, but that ain't gonna happen.
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The game really does reward some of its worst players. That goes for both roles.
I had a match yesterday where I was tunneled out but, by the time I died, there was only one gen left. The other three got out, yet it counts as a loss for me. It's just illogical.
I'm eager (and frightened) to see what they have in store for the matchmaking rework.
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@chknTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023696#Comment_4023696
Instead of buffing solo queue with some form of comms like a chatwheel, they buff survivors overall which buffs SWFs much more cause they can use all these basekit perks much more effectively.
No one would complain about Solo Queue being brought closer to SWFs, the problem is theyre buffing survivors overall, and ALOT at that, OTR, Babysitter, Wicked all going basekit, ontop of some of their reworks being even better. (Babysitter and Wicked are insane now) and the AntiSlug is just hypertargetted at Twins/Oni while anti-camp screws Trapper over.
Its so simple what the game needs
Nerf Blight, Nurse
Add communications to Solo Queue
Fix Bugs
Add QoL
And after all that, check the state of the game and see what needs changes from here.No one would complain about Solo Queue being brought closer to SWFs
I would like a chat wheel but I don't believe this statement for a second. You can't give survivors anything without an uproar. There would be so many bad faith arguments about why this is OP from killer-players who rely on uncoordinated soloqers for easier wins. As it is, SWF is constantly used as the scapegoat for most killler problems. Survivors as a whole would see massive nerfs if any form of communication was added in.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022734#Comment_4022734
I dont visit the Forum that much anymore, but I read from time to time and I wanted to answer here that you are 100% right. It seems like changes are done nowadays just to say that they did something, even if it get reverted or weakened into nothingness.
Fog Vials for example - finally something new for Survivor, they get thrown a Bone. Just so that Fog Vials are destroyed a week after their implementation and every feedback regarding Fog Vials gets ignored by the Devs. But they can pride themselves with bringing a new "cool" Item for Survivors.
Anti-Tunnel - I was a fan of their initial proposal. Punishing Killers who tunnel (actually punishing them), but also actually rewarding them if they dont tunnel. As someone who does not tunnel when playing Killer, I was actually excited to get real Benefits, just getting BPs and a bit of Haste is not really something I would see as Benefit. Likewise I would not expect that the current Anti-Tunnel measurements will go live as they are, they will probably be watered down from PTB to Live or shortly afterwards. But again, Devs can say that they did something against tunneling. (As they did something against Facecamping, which was also pointless in the end…)
And you can expect that now that they wanted to have Feedback about Pallet Density that they will also revert that maps have more pallets, but not revert the Nerfs those Maps got as well. E.g. some Maps dont have breakable Walls anymore, e.g. Gas Heaven or Groaning Storehouse. Some Maps dont have strong Windows anymore in their Main Building, e.g. Chapel. And the overall quality of Tiles was reduced, what was a Jungly Gym before is now a much weaker Tile. But if they implement changes to Pallet Density, they will not change anything else what they did to the Maps.
It will all be the same like the Hope-Nerf for example. Devs revert something or dont implement it, but Nerfs will still come through. Same with OTR, which only got its Endurance back because people complained and even then it was only 40 seconds (not that it matters that much, but still a Nerf).
So yes, currently it looks like BHVR is testing changes they will not bring to the game anyway because then they can say "Well, we tried". And Killers will always make a lot of backlash, because it usually works. BHVR needs to try to implement things despite complaints like they did with the original Ruin Rework back then. But I fear that this is not possible anymore.
Just my 2 cents, since I liked your post. And now back into hiatus, lol.
It sucks to think that this is probably the case but it's hard not to agree. I can't forget the sting of Fog Vials, in particular. They were talking as though they might revert some of the changes but there's still been nothing, and we all just accept that they're useless.
If this update gets any nerfs at all, it will be useless as well.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023889#Comment_4023889
I've seen videos of true genrush builds, but it does require some setup to get started, and fairly complicated for the average players to fully utilize.
Basically, Hens did an experiment a few months back where he used Bardic, Hyperfocus and Stake out, in addition to a stacked toolbox, and Built to Last to do a gen in 36 seconds solo.
Yeah that's the thing: set-up. That takes some effort and circumstance. I might see maybe one of these Hyperfocus/Stakeout people in my lobbies once in a awhile. It's not common at all, and it's not ruining my matches.
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@CrossTheSholf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023843#Comment_4023843
30 second gen build.
On all four people? I've never seen it.
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@ratcoffee said:
yesterday I posted this:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6DDM2L5Q6WEH/7bfacd9c17-2a9d-4640-bdd1-99fbd8f4f0b8-7d.png
from the reaction here and on twitter it looks like:
- survivor mains feel the update is severely balanced against them (allegedly extremely scaled back version of the anti-tunnel we saw previously, high rarity add-ons made extremely niche and borderline useless in many scenarios, allegedly useless survivor perk buffs)
- killer mains feel the update is severely balanced against them (allegedly extreme anti-tunnel measures, no news on pallet over-saturation, some stupid perk nerfs on the killer side, allegedly overpowered buffs to survivor perks)
- people who play both sides are mad a bunch of stuff that was fun to play with got reworked to be not fun
definitely got some contradictory opinions but mostly just disappointment, which is a bad place for an update to be. i was hoping for the one-side players to have contradictory opinions but with an overall air of optimism for what their side got
Yeah, playing both roles, I can't say I'm satisfied with any of this, or i just don't care. Perks I don't use have been nerfed or buffed. Add-ons I don't use have been bizarrely and poorly changed. The only thing that might be nice is Elusive as survivor. Maybe.
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@sinisterstubbs77 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023843#Comment_4023843
No, in fact I said that is obviously the survivor's primary goal is to do the gens. What I said was it's hard when there is a coordinated meta perk team bombing gens at the start. Not that they shouldn't ever do this, but what's a killer to do in that case? They in turn have to speed up, change tactics like tunneling for example, because a killer's primary goal is to get the survivors out while protecting the gens. Survivors made up the term tunneling like many have said simply because they failed, made mistakes the killer capitalized on and just didn't like it and labeled it a bad thing.
"Genrushing" goes back to when BNPs did the gen for you. That no longer exists, but the term still gets thrown around just as causally as "tunnelling". So you could also say killers use the term genrushing because--to use your own words--they failed, made mistakes the survivors capitalized on and just didn't like it and labeled it a bad thing, and thus use at as an excuse for cheese tactics.
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I actually don't understand this at all. I have almost never used syringes myself but they have been used on me when I'm being tunnelled or am on death hook. They're not really very abusable and are great for teamwork. Exhaustion perks really don't need anymore help. They're annoying enough as is.
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@sinisterstubbs77 said:
From my relatively short time playing, maybe a couple years off and on, it seems tunneling became a strategy at least at first to defend gen-rushing. It made and makes sense then and now to eliminate the injured people first. In my experience as a killer I get gen-rushed every other match it seems. If I don't do something soon in those cases I'm guaranteed a loss. There's nothing inherently wrong with this survivor strategy, as this is the primary goal of the game for survs is to get out.
In this case, a killer has to adapt or get owned and fast. Everything in a game like this can and will be abused by toxic players, I just don't see why it's ok for one and not the other.
What is genrushig though? Is it toxic to just do gens? Does everyone in your lobbies have commodious toolboxes and gen perks or are you just giving them 90 free second to do the gens? Like what do you want the survivors to do? Politely wait for your chase to finish before working on a gen?
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This change is hilarious. It's supposed to be an update to help with tunneling and they axed an add-on that can help when someone is being tunneled, but in doing so, buffed exhaustion instead. Hope every killer who cried about healing enjoys those endless Sprint Bursts lol
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This sort of stomp almost never happens to me as either killer or survivor. The whole survivor team has to be skilled, coordiated, and have good gamesense. If they do all that and the killler can't cut off their progress, then they win, I guess? But the killer also has to blow it. If I over commit to a chase and 3 gens pop that's on me, but that rarely happens to me anymore. You can tell pretty fast if someone is a juicer. Those are the ones I ignore until later. There's almost always weaker links to pursue.
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I'm convinced the bloodweb intentionally doesn't give you what you want. The point is to make you keep grinding and spending. It's so bad with my main survivor that I'm now using White Wards to hold onto my few remaining add-ons. I'd rather die with my toolbox in hand than escape without it.
I'm having a similar problem with my current killer. The purple add-on I want shows up way less than the iri ones, and all the other purple ones. So I funnel the survivor points into my killler and the cycle never ends.
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Very much agreed. This needs to be discussed as much as possible.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023126#Comment_4023126
"Then you don't want an end game abandon for killers?"
No, I don't think either should exist. I'd only push for the killer end game abandon if we're still keeping it in game so it's fair for both sides.
"I'm talking about how abandons artifiically inflate personal survivor stats. It registers like free hatch even if you died. Neither the abandon nor the stats have been around that long."
Only on the dbd website. Not the devs data.
"Two things here. You're talking about things that are gameplay. There's still activity in the match even if it's activity you don't like. Last second saves and kills are possible. The mori is animation. Skipping animation is pretty normal in games. Nothing else can happen so I get skipping it. If they hadn't installed the finisher mori and survivors still had a chance of wiggling off than the abandon wouldn't be needed here, but they deicded to do this stupid ending thing and people should be able to skip it, even if I personally don't. It just shouldn't give them a free pass. "
You gave the criteria of "not interesting", not whether it's interactive game play or not. I'd argue on average survivors waste significantly more time waiting at exit gates to tbag or be forcibly pushed out than they would watching a mori. This tells you it has absolutely nothing to with wasting time. They just want to gloat, but don't want the other side to be able to. Double standard. There's no game play standing at the exit portal tbagging where even if you're downed it pushes you out. Skipping animation in games IS normal againt NPC's. It is not normal in player vs player.
'Second, idk if I'd call it a double standard because the power balance is quite skewed."
Not sure what you mean by this.
" But it's also because scenarios where killers keep survivors trapped in hopeless matches are far, far more common than the opposite. "
Completely disagree. I literally cannot even remember the last time this has happened to me, and I play wayy more than the average player. This is probably more of a player playing bad which is their own fault rather than "getting trapped", which is a way of alleviating accountability.
'Like you mentioned about a slugging, griefing smurf. That can and does happen, and those new survivors are totally powerless against someone like that, so I understand why they're adding the slugged-twice abandon option."
This doesn't make sense. They are generally facing similar skilled killers if they're new and even if they were in this scenario (which is ridiculously rare mind you, even the dev stats show it), they are already able to abandon. Slugged twice abandon option is a ridiculous idea that makes no sense and is utterly unnecessary. It removes slugging as a strategy in game and makes all game play boringly linear.
"That's an extreme scenario, but I've been left to bleed out for four minutes many times just for funsies"
I haven't had this happen to me in even the past year of playing, and again I'm playing way more than most people. This isn't even an issue worth addressing.
Only on the dbd website. Not the devs data.
Yeah but our viewable stats are what we're all going off of. That's a big problem. Look how many people in the forum post their 50-60% ERs as examples of survivor being easy. How much of that is abandons and DCs? The dev data also throws out matches with DCs, which will mostly favor killers. And there are a lot of those matches. So the KRs are off. And if abandons don't affect MMR and don't count as losses than every single number measurement is off.
There's no game play standing at the exit portal tbagging where even if you're downed it pushes you out
But events can still occur. You can farm for points. You can be friendly and end it nicely. I've gotten last minute kills off of BMers who misjudged at the gates too. Literally nothing can change during a mori. The fact that you even view the mori as a form of gloating kinda sucks and is one of many reasons I've stopped doing it. I don't tbag at the gates--I just leave. Yet I have to watch endless moris.
This is probably more of a player playing bad which is their own fault rather than "getting trapped", which is a way of alleviating accountability.
There are also four players on a survivor team. If you're soloqing, you can't decide what you'll get. One good player can't fix the team.
I haven't had this happen to me in even the past year of playing, and again I'm playing way more than most people. This isn't even an issue worth addressing.
I also play a lot. I've been intentionally left to bleed at least three times in recent memory: one Bubba AFK with me and a bot laying at their feet. One Unknown who farmed pallets and doors, then came back to mori me last second. And a griefing Twins player who slugged over and over and didn't hook anyone all match, playing only for bleedouts. That's cool it doesn't happen to you, but it happens to me more than enough. The vast majority of players are abandoning as soon as they hit the ground and not waiting out the timer like I am. These scenarios don't even need abandon. They just need a fast bleedout option.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023094#Comment_4023094
"Slugging for the 4k is a constant occurrence in my survivor matches. If that's toxic (which I never really thought it was. Just crappy) then a lot of negative feelings have built up in people, so the abandon must look very appealing indeed. I don't know if I'd call a 4man slug toxic either. Again, its crappy, the game shouldn't even allow it to happen, and hopefully it soon won't with the upcoming changes. Toxic, to me, is BMIng, which the abandon feature currently does not help with."
I personally wouldn't call that toxic either, I'm more referencing that lots of people would. The abandon looks appealing to them because a lot of the player base is entitled and don't care about anything but themselves. Not something I think should be catered to.
"It's not a big deal but people skip them in almost every match they occur in, so they're clearly not interested. They're also mostly hideous. I no longer do them as killer. I don't want to watch them either. I'm saying they haven't helped the game, especially combined with the abandon. "
Well dang man there's a ton killers aren't interesting in that they have to sit through, should they be able to skip any of that stuff as well? Once the gates are powered and open I'm personally not interested in kills gained from whether or not they decide to be greedy and save, should I be able to skip all that. Letting things be skippable just because people aren't interested in it is a bad metric that has a slippery slope or a lot of double standards. We're currently sitting in the double stardards section. Survivors have abandon criteria for simply wanting to go next faster, but the killer doesn't have this. They expect the killer to sit through everything.
" It's starting to feel like a survivor stat consolation prize."
Yeah that's literally what it's been since the games release.
" It would be an easy enough fix to have the option show up maybe 30s after the last down."
This might make the killer just leave that other guy slugged even longer though unfortunately.
The abandon looks appealing to them because a lot of the player base is entitled and don't care about anything but themselves. Not something I think should be catered to.
Then you don't want an end game abandon for killers?
Yeah that's literally what it's been since the games release
I'm talking about how abandons artifiically inflate personal survivor stats. It registers like free hatch even if you died. Neither the abandon nor the stats have been around that long.
Letting things be skippable just because people aren't interested in it is a bad metric that has a slippery slope or a lot of double standards.
Two things here. You're talking about things that are gameplay. There's still activity in the match even if it's activity you don't like. Last second saves and kills are possible. The mori is animation. Skipping animation is pretty normal in games. Nothing else can happen so I get skipping it. If they hadn't installed the finisher mori and survivors still had a chance of wiggling off than the abandon wouldn't be needed here, but they deicded to do this stupid ending thing and people should be able to skip it, even if I personally don't. It just shouldn't give them a free pass.
Second, idk if I'd call it a double standard because the power balance is quite skewed. Partially, it's because there's no viable killler bots. But it's also because scenarios where killers keep survivors trapped in hopeless matches are far, far more common than the opposite. Like you mentioned about a slugging, griefing smurf. That can and does happen, and those new survivors are totally powerless against someone like that, so I understand why they're adding the slugged-twice abandon option. That's an extreme scenario, but I've been left to bleed out for four minutes many times just for funsies. I just wish everything didn't count as null matches. There needs to be a distinction between an escape from a toxic player and just getting to the scoreboard faster.
This might make the killer just leave that other guy slugged even longer though unfortunately.
Which is where both a self pickup and a fast bleedout option in end game are needed, so survivors have a choice at all times, aside from just leaving the match entirely.
But someone like this isn't going to care if their opponent abandons or not. They get their kill either way.
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@Dokta_Carter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023102#Comment_4023102
Cogsturning, don't spiders creep?
I can understand its not everyone's cup of tea
But I like the spook factor at times. Especially when you see the survivors just spawn then look up? Kinda hilarious
Ahahaha you got me there. I guess I might make a future exception.
I dig that. I've been playing as Dredge and I love popping out of lockers when people walk by, or snatching them up when they're interacting with them. I just don't have the patience to do that all the time.