cogsturning
cogsturning
About
- Username
- cogsturning
- Joined
- Visits
- 5,298
- Last Active
Comments
-
I play late at night, with pretty sweaty players. Most of my killers are high-hour p100s. These three tactics occur in multiple matches every time I play. It's gotten significantly worse over the last few months, so much so that I play less and less survivor. Whether that's from my MMR becoming too high or a change in the game's tone, I don't know, but I see it way more than I used to, particularly killers going for full team slugs.
-
Slugging isn't always a good move. A team on comms that realizes what the killer is doing could just fan out and sit on gens and leave a teammate down for as long as possible. Going for unhooks at the right moment is riskier and has less of a time window, especially since the hook location is static and constantly broadcasted, whereas a slug could crawl away if left alone and be easily and quietly picked up.
The issue, to me, isn't that killers need more incentives to hook (there's already plenty), it's that they need less incentive to slug. If we'd gotten the anti-slug from the ptb, we'd be in a better place right now. Tunneling is at least counterable with skill against most killers. Slugging is a bigger issue to me. A soloq team going against someone with a slugging-specific build doesn't stand much of a chance unless the killer is bad.
-
I'd sell my soul for David8 in this game, just saying.
-
I'm very audio-aware. If anytning will make me mad or happy in this game, it's sound. I cannot stand Yun Jin's pain noises or any of Spirit's audio. The ghostly sounds are unbearable. Also, I don't hate him at all since I've been maining him, but the way the Henry Creel skin's fingers bend back like rubber when he gets stunned gives me the ick.
@kit_mason said:
i dont like ace because of his smile lmao
shoutout to all the ace enjoyers out there im sure you love your silent man but couldnt be me
Oh no! His gross smugness is what I love about him.
-
@Leon_van_Straken said:
The big problem I see is the following:
In DbD both sides are entilted and think they are the punching bag for the other side.
But I have to adress that Survivors aren´t happy no matter what you do. Pllease stay with me I will give some examples and I beg you to be honest with yourself.
Rate of disconnects are rocket high at the Survivor side and gets support by many DbD players (Why should you stay in a game if you don´t have fun?) Don´t like the Killer? DC! Don´t like the map? DC! You know what I mean as many players even in this forum suggested. "Don´t like Ghoul? Just DC and show BHVR that you don´t want to play.
Ofcourse there are Killers which DC over the smallest things themself. Bad Map, Bully Squads etc. but if you are beeing honest you will see that a Killer which dcs has most of the time a reason to do so (I don´t agree with these but you will understand) Hey another denied hit by autoaim, Hey another Larrys as Billy, Hey another flashlight save out of an impossible angle and so on.
Another point is how players react to a gamestyle the other side uses. While yes Bullysquads are hated by Killers the most common suggestions in this forum is to always bring Lightborn or if you play against Sabo Squads Slug the hell out of them. These are legit conversations how to tackle the problem you are facing. Survivors Gen Rush? Use slow down and so on.
Survivors on the other hand react to such topics in another way. Many Survivors think that BHVR should make playsstyles they don´t like unusable and get mad at BHVR if they don´t do it right after the suggestion came in. From time to time I try to reason with some players in this forum that "If slugging is in 10 of 10 games why won´t you take anti slug perks?" and always the answer tend to be something like "I don´t want to use a perk for BHVRs bad game desing".
While both sides are horrendous from time to time, most of the time I roll my eyes when I see Survivors in game or in the forum.
Survivors on the other hand react to such topics in another way. Many Survivors think that BHVR should make playsstyles they don´t like unusable and get mad at BHVR if they don´t do it right after the suggestion came in. From time to time I try to reason with some players in this forum that "If slugging is in 10 of 10 games why won´t you take anti slug perks?" and always the answer tend to be something like "I don´t want to use a perk for BHVRs bad game desing".
These aren't comparable. Lightborn not only deletes an item's usability with just one slot taken, it even gives undeserved aura read. Yet you could bring a whole anti-slug build and still get slugged over and over, especially in soloq. Unbreakable is one-time use, Exponential can be snuffed, Conviction and WGLF require coordination to be really useful. Most of these just prolong things. All the killer needs is Infectious Fright and your anti-alug build just give them more info to keep slugging.
Killers decide how the match will feel far more than survivors. A genuine bully squad is rare, and a competent one even more so. They're usually just a nuisance anyway. Slugging and tunneling killers are constant and far less easy to deal with. I just played 4 survivor matches, 2 with killers going for full team slugs, 1 with someone trying to tunnel me. Then I logged off. DCing and being frustrated aren't survivor problems, they're game problems.
And about getting mad when changes don't come through right away—it's been 10 years. Slugging and tunneling are still being complained about. What's the acceptable waiting period? A quarter of a century?
-
@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073864#Comment_4073864
"So now you're also saying people will pick a killer because they align with their cultural or ethnic interests? It seems like you assume people will pick killers for a whole lot of reasons that they probably don't. My secondary survivor is black. I'm not. You don't have to see yourself in a character to like them."
No assumptions. Just hard experience playing with a Japanese vpn"This "data" is irrelevant for that reason, as they're free. If you try the game for the first time, you're going to pick one of these. Trapper being the poster boy (and being simple) is probably the most likely option for a fresh install to randomly choose."
I'm not quite sure how this rebuts anything I said. If anything it even further proves the point, because if you remove the free killer from the equation, there's even a stronger female bias of ending up in the bottom 10 of killers, where 2 of the female killers who aren't are in fact free."Which, again, contradicts your points."
It does not. It simply reveals a more interesting piece of psychology that's at play here, similarly how female survivors are favoured over male survivors in general as well."And what does "seen" and "personal experience" mean exactly?"
It doesn't take too long to find the many female profiles idolizing being moried by killers like Myers, Pinhead, etc. (Or even fandomming Leon, etc. it's pretty widespread)"I sure am not" (related to "Wouldn't women play as female characters so they can dominate male players as women and live an unlikely fantasy?")
Well you sure make the assumption that women would be interested in dominating men. But like I said, the reality is opposite, women mainly want to be dommed and in cases where it's not it's mostly because it's the guy that wants the dynamic, not the woman, so now you know."What do you think of woman maining male survivors then?"
Nothing in particular. For that, Leon seems to be the most frequent pick."You're arguing that it's sad that female killers are left in the dust then go on to say the most offensively sexist thing you could have managed."
If you feel like women's own preferences are sexists then I think you simply don't know what that word means. But at least you're willing to admit to some realities of it straight after it. It's simply psychology."What hard data? Nightlight's bad and incomplete numbers? The sparse and cherry-picked data BHVR tosses us occasionally? Have there been surveys on why people main who? There is no data. There are just assumptions."
It's quite funny that you are the only person here that's running on assumptions or copius arguments, when my analysis is purely made from numbers.
So here are the numbers for ya:
Least played killers:
- Skill Merchant f
- The Twins f
- The Hag f
- The Cenobite
- The Krasue f
- The Houndmaster f
- The Singularity
- The Nightmare
- The Artist f
- The Onryo f
With 41 killers and bottom 10 being comprised of obviously 10, that means any % of around 24.39% would mean this factor had no significance. The further above it, the higher the significance and below 24.39%, meaning a negative significance
41 killers, 12 female, 7 in bottom 10
Guessing bottom 10 based on being female= 58.3% right guess
(Ahem… apparently a strong bias against picking female characters, for whatever the reasons might be)
41 killers, 39 male, 3 in bottom 10
Guessing bottom 10 based on being male = 7.69% right guess
41 killers, 24 unlicensed, 7 in bottom 10
Guessing bottom 10 based on being unlicensed = 29.16% right guess
(No surprise here, licensed killers have a slight bias towards being picked more due to being popular)
41 killers, 17 licensed, 3 in bottom 10
Guessing bottom 10 based on being licensed = 17.6% right guess
41 killers, 2 no longer purchasable, 1 in bottom 10
Guessing bottom 10 based on being not purchasable = 50% right guess
(No surprise here, not being purchasable anymore heavily increases the chance of being picked less)
41 killers, 36 not free, 10 in bottom 10
Guessing bottom 10 based on not being free = 27.7% right guess
(No surprise here, not being free does create a slight bias towards the killer being played less)
(ignoring console specific platforms for simplicity)
41 killers, 11 C/D/E/F tier, 2 in bottom 10 (We will use a non-biased tierlist from a popular creator but feel free to use any other)
Guessing bottom 10 based on being weak = 18.18% right guess
(Although why weaker killers are played more might be a surprise to some, keep in mind win-rates look different at lower elos where the majority of the player-base is, where their version of the tierlist would also look different, so it's not as weird as you'd think)https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IDQC3C26SMME/image.png
Now, I just think it adds insult to injury thinking that even guessing based on survivors being NO LONGER PURCHASABLE would yield a lower success rate than guessing based on them being female. That is just beyond crazy. However, with time as killers age and they no longer become purchasable, this statistic should change, and guessing based on this should eventually end up being the nr1 strategy, with only guessing based on them being women remaining as the second most effective strategy.
Now feel free to pick any other metric, such as them being older killers/ younger killers, etc, none will be as successful as just guessing for the female killers. There's no stronger metric currently than that. Now you can argue about the reasons, but it is undeniable; a killer being female is the strongest metric to guess that she will end up in the bottom 10 of played killers.
Feel uncomfortable with that truth as you please, be in denial about it all you want, but if anyone would not want that to be the case, maybe the Devs/community need to start doing something about that, you know? Instead of being in denial about the giant gender disparity between killers in Dead By Daylight
No assumptions. Just hard experience playing with a Japanese vpnBy this logic, all the Vees and Yuis and Yun-Jins I see playing outside of Asia should be Asians. Feng is extremely popular. Are all those players Chinese? None of my survivors look like me. Games are fantasies. We had stats not that long ago for Japan. Pick-rates were this:
1. Feng
2. Claudette
3. Sable
4. Nea
5. Meg
6. Kate
7. Ada
8. Dwight
9. Mikaela
10. Jill
1. Wraith
2. Huntress
3. Legion
4. Nurse
5. Ghoul
6. Micheal
7. Blight
8. Doctor
9. Spirit
10. Trapper
By your logic, Yui and Yoichi should be the most popular, or at least in the ranking. Japan has a complicated history with China, yet Feng is on top. Then it's mostly a bunch of white women. Claudette being number 2 aligns more with my Iogic, that people gravitate towards who they aren't, not who they are. Incidentally, Ghoul was one slot below the world pick rate. He's slightly more popular outside of Japan.
It doesn't take too long to find the many female profiles idolizing being moried by killers like Myers, Pinhead, etc. (Or even fandomming Leon, etc. it's pretty widespread)
You're not making enough of a distinction between realistic fantasies, unrealistic ones, and edgy jokes. There are fantasies that people actually want to live out, and then there's unhinged stuff that stays in your head. Most people probably have these, but very few want to actually live out absurd fantasies, like being murdered. People with names like "ruin me Wesker" or "mori me Micheal" don't actually want to be murdered. This should not be news. Also, many of the people I see with names like that (that have pfps of themselves) are quite young. They're being edgy. They're joking. And then you're rolling up and taking it literally in some exercise in amateur mass psychology. Something else that's pretty popular amongst women is male x male pairings? How much do you think that overflows outside of mental fantasies? You don't see women getting addicted to gay porn or frequenting gay clubs to creep on men. This stuff exists outside of reality.
Well you sure make the assumption that women would be interested in dominating men. But like I said, the reality is opposite, women mainly want to be dommed and in cases where it's not it's mostly because it's the guy that wants the dynamic, not the woman, so now you know.
No my dude, I sure am not. I don't think any of this is real. I'm just flipping your idea. The vast majority of people playing a silly horror game aren't doing so to live out a domination fantasy. It's you that thinks that. And thinking the majority of women want to feel dominated is, again, crazy offensive. If you roll in those, cool, but assuming that about most woman is sexist af.
Nothing in particular. For that, Leon seems to be the most frequent pick.
Why nothing in particular? Does a woman controlling her little digital man, deciding his fate, and watching him die endlessly not fit into your box? Or does whatever AI you're using not have enough "hard data" from infallible academic sources like YT to manage a response?
If you feel like women's own preferences are sexists then I think you simply don't know what that word means.
It's sexist for you to think you know what most women want, as though women are a hive mind with set preferences. And that that preference is being dominated by men. Women have done a lot of struggling to not be dominated by men anymore.
It's quite funny that you are the only person here that's running on assumptions or copius arguments, when my analysis is purely made from numbers.
Your assessment that women want to be dominated runs on numbers? I'd love to see those numbers.
Then you go on to drop some random info from who knows where. I could go cherry pick some info too, if you'd like (or ask AI to do it for me, if I thought that wasn't disgusting), but unless you have BHVRs complete, official list of pickrates, you have nothing but bad data. And even if you did have that, you're making the reasons for those pick rates what you want them to be. And your using some CCs personal tier list? Just accept that there is no hard data because there isn't.
Now feel free to pick any other metric
I did, abd you keep ignoring it: enjoyability. Harder to get data on, but if your data source is Nightlight, it doesn't really matter. I don't have Krasue, Twins, or Skull Merchant unlocked. It has nothing to do with them being women. It's because I hate going against their kits (and the people who tend to play them) and I've also consistently heard that they aren't fun to play as. Success in numbers doesn't mean fun. I don't care if I'd get high winrates with them, I care that no one wants to play against them and that I probably won't enjoy the gameplay either. I unlocked Houndmaster as soon as she came out cause she seemed fun. She wasn't, so I dropped her. Same with Artist, cool design, but I don't like the gameplay. You're focusing on gender stuff when people play games for fun. Krasue and Twins have high KRs in upper MMR because those particular players don't care about fun (or gender!), they care about winning.
-
I think these are things we just can't usually see but the forum is bugged right now. Posts also have points too, which show the ratio of upvotes to downvotes, the ones with more downvotes than up having negative points. This seems like mod info and not regular folk info.
-
@scorpio said:
Survivor is the least fun it's been in awhile imo. It's such a drag, I don't even want to play the game anymore. No one does gens, no one knows how to face any of the killers, way too many people wasting time doing boons instead of gens. It's the worst. I have played 3 games today and I am probably done with DBD until the next time 2v8 is back, it is that unfun to play in solo queue. Idc how many good perks there are, you can only take 4 and you have to rely on your braindead team to be useful which they never are. No one knows how to play the game anymore and it isn't even their fault because there are no tutorials for anything useful!
My soloq matches have basically all been killer wins. It's been horrible. The worst part though is that when I play killer, everyone is super efficient. They understand distance, pathing, and lopping perfectly, gens fly, matches are 5 minutes long, and I get two hooks. Then I go play survivor and my teammates are going down over and over a minute into the match or never touch gens. Currently, both roles feel unplayable for me.
-
@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073915#Comment_4073915
100%. It's a mirror to their own reality. You see a lot of very strange and vitriolic hatred toward Survivor, beyond it being just a game. And now it dominates the DBD market. One would realistically only continue to expose themselves to that if they got something out of it. I'm thinking it's akin to a digital voodoo doll. And I'm going to be totally candid here—it's actually really nasty that BHVR encourages that and profits off of it. Maybe I'm completely wrong with their intentions, but that's my genuine belief.
Not such thing as bad press, right? Anything that fuels engagement is a winning strategy nowadays. Doesn't matter how harmful it is.
-
@UnicornMedal said:
As @Aven_Fallen said, it's engagement bait primarily. But it's also the natural course the game has taken. Killer is the weakest role, despite all of the evidence screaming the opposite, and the real problem is bully Survivors. You get to be in control and take down all the meanies. It's a great ego trap.
That's an interesting role reversal theory. Flip the lore by making the survivors the villains and the killers justified because the players "deserve it."
-
@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073835#Comment_4073835
Why? What is the point? Best case, you get everyone saying “GG” to each other. So we need to keep the ability for people to say GG so that the other 99% of extremely toxic post game chats can remain?
I have pleasant interactions beyond ggs everytime I play.
-
I don't enagage with CCs but even what little I see is mostly survivor hate. This community loves a certain flavor of division. There's even one guy who bashes this forum, especially those he thinks are survivor mains.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073893#Comment_4073893
Upvotes and possibly downvotes, I think?
Judging by the "points" thing being visible underneath posts as well, alongside the return of numbered views.
How does this math math though?
Look at other posters' profiles. It's kind of erratic.
-
So a few things are visible that weren't before:
What are points?
-
-
@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
"Do you think people don't want to play female characters because they're female or because of their kits?"
In truth, I don't know why a lot of players don't want to play female killers. All I know is that it is happening and happening at a rate that is completely domineering, compared to any other factor.
I don't think it's a kit thing. I know a lot of people play killers when they don't even like their kit necessarily, but they just like the idea of the killer or the concept, and they put up with the kit and make themselves like it no matter what."These kinda conflict with each other and reality. Ghoul isn't free, yet he's inescapable. Do you think these endless Ghouls everyone has to tolerate like or have even seen Tokyo Ghoul? "
Ghoul is played for 2 of my mentioned reasons:
1. Licensed, and has a big asian community behind it (same with spirit)
2. Strong, and on top of being strong, being very accessibly strong
You don't have to be a free killer to be played frequently. That's not my point, but being free guarantees that you won't be in the bottom 10 played killers, due to the nature of newer/cheaper players playing those killers."I don't know the series, but she's not overly sexualized in appearance, and she's pricey, yet I see her a lot"
You definitely see her more often, due to Ghoul being played more often. And it is kind of interesting that when players get the choice to turn their male killer into a female killer they are significantly more likely to do so, and even prefer it over a female-killer-by-default. I definitely think there is something special going on there, as that is true not merely for the licensed killers like Ghoul, but for any killer that allows you to change the gender of a killer, where that pick is by choice"Male characters, particularly Ace, tend to be quieter. This is tactical."
Not just ace, but comp players tend to play a lot of male killers, from Quentin, to Adam, to Jake, etc. It's also why they end up as one of the highest survive rate survivors, as these survivors are disproportionally picked by comp players"Why don't you ask them? This is a really outlandish assumption."
I have asked, I have seen, and I know from personal experience. Like I said, I play this game with plenty female friends"Wouldn't women play as female characters so they can dominate male players as women and live an unlikely fantasy?"
You're most likely saying this in response to the female domming community, but from anyone who knows about those communities know that a lot of women who are dominants do so for money, and not merely for enjoyment, as well as getting burned out by it really quickly. A portion of them even wants to have a secret male-dom while doing domming themselves, as they still end up having a lot of submissive fantasies. The people that think as much women are into domming as they think are guys, and have no clue how male-centric that dynamic is. It's taxing and often unenjoyable, so I don't think a lot of them want to play as female killers to dominate men, but they are more likely to play as the male killers who they like to be dominated by, and will mostly play female killers if they relate to some parts of their identity, like some women may connect to hag due to the "witch" theme that some women relate to, for those who understand it's historical context."It's in the eye of the beholder though. I do actually find the Micheal mori lightly sexual in nature. I don't necessarily think it's intentional though. "
I would agree that Michael Myers mori is slightly sexual, but it's not the creative work of beHaviour. That's the work of the makers of the movies and it absolutely displays a power-fantasy, so it's very deliberate too. Although that movie was the power fantasy of men hunting down a woman, where as in DBD ofc they often see themselves through the role of the survivors mostly, so for both the reason why Myer's mori is sexualized and beHaviour's male mori's are not are both due to male-centric sexualizations, ironically."Kind of hard when this seems to be based solely on your own personal biases in assumptions and not any actual data."
It is quite literally hard data and no assumptions. If you played the gameshow and started randomly guessing killers based on being female, you would have the highest chance of winning. No other factor you could define would yield you such good results. It's nothing but purely empirical data: Guessing female killers + no longer purchasable killers = the winning strategy, and if I'm correct, will most likely continue to be in the far future, to my own disappointment as wellI know a lot of people play killers when they don't even like their kit necessarily, but they just like the idea of the killer or the concept, and they put up with the kit and make themselves like it no matter what.
I don't think there's that much of this. I was like this with Wesker, being a character I already liked, but it gets old, and I've mostly walked away in favor of kits I actually enjoy. I'd argue the only time I've seen people consistently force themesleves to play a weak killer is Skull Merchant. And again, it's all guys.
Licensed, and has a big asian community behind it (same with spirit)
So now you're also saying people will pick a killer because they align with their cultural or ethnic interests? It seems like you assume people will pick killers for a whole lot of reasons that they probably don't. My secondary survivor is black. I'm not. You don't have to see yourself in a character to like them.
You don't have to be a free killer to be played frequently. That's not my point, but being free guarantees that you won't be in the bottom 10 played killers, due to the nature of newer/cheaper players playing those killers.
This "data" is irrelevant for that reason, as they're free. If you try the game for the first time, you're going to pick one of these. Trapper being the poster boy (and being simple) is probably the most likely option for a fresh install to randomly choose.
I definitely think there is something special going on there, as that is true not merely for the licensed killers like Ghoul, but for any killer that allows you to change the gender of a killer, where that pick is by choice
Which, again, contradicts your points. If I was going to disgrace myself by playing Ghoul, I'd rather play Rize, because of something you're overlooking: audio. After kits, I choose killers based on sound. It's why I play Henry Creel instead of the default skin. I don't like the default's growly voice. I can't see my killer, I don't care what they look like, but I do have to listen to them, and if I had to chose between Rize's annoying giggles and Kaneki's unbearable screeching, it would be the former.
I have asked, I have seen, and I know from personal experience. Like I said, I play this game with plenty female friends
You're telling me you've asked women you play with, in all seriousness and not in a joking context, if they play dudes they want to be dominated by and they've said yes? That's a little hard for me to swallow. I know at least a dozen women who play this game. If I were to ask them, I don't think that's the answer I'd get. And what does "seen" and "personal experience" mean exactly?
You're most likely saying this in response to the female domming community
I sure am not. This is you projecting again. I have zero knowledge or interest in this. If that's an interest of yours (and, from this line of reasoning, it would seem so) then cool, but don't assume it about other people.
so I don't think a lot of them want to play as female killers to dominate men, but they are more likely to play as the male killers who they like to be dominated by
You're arguing that it's sad that female killers are left in the dust then go on to say the most offensively sexist thing you could have managed. Do some women play as male characters they're attracted too? Yes, probably, just like men probably play as female survivors they're attracted to, since they get eye candy out of it. But implying that if a woman has a thing for a guy that means she wants to be "dominated" by him is so gross. What do you think of woman maining male survivors then?
It is quite literally hard data and no assumptions.
What hard data? Nightlight's bad and incomplete numbers? The sparse and cherry-picked data BHVR tosses us occasionally? Have there been surveys on why people main who? There is no data. There are just assumptions.
-
Yes please. Let me be spicy.
-
He already got nerfed. He doesn't need another one. He is much easier to juke than Nurse. He can't move his body through space and all survivors have to do is pre-run and hold W to destroy him. Just a little bit of unpredictable movement in chase when he is in range and he'll struggle to hit you. Pretty sure the teams that have left me with two hooks had plenty of fun playing against me.
Comparing him to Ghoul is wild. I think he's fun to play, but he's not braindead easy like Ghoul. That's a totally different audience than a slow, prediction-based killer.
-
I go by the golden rule in this game and a few nasty people aren't going to change that. They don't represent everyone. Don't let them make you think they do.
-
@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073663#Comment_4073663
Out of my top 10 most used killers, two are female. It has nothing to do with their genders
It has something to do with their genders, but gender is simply not the only factor influencing their picks. That is the whole point I'm making. That female killers need to have more positive things going for them to receive the same amounts of playtime.
Among those factors are:
1. The killer being free (This trumps all. You're never going to be bottom 10 if you're a free killer)
2. Being strong (very strong killers are always going to see a lot of play)
3. Being purchasable (obviously killers that can no longer be bought are going to drop off)
4. Being male (female killers are disproportionally ending up in the bottom 10)
5. Being licensed (being recognisable can help bring a pre-existing audience)
With of course part 4 being the sad part. That doesn't mean that it's impossible to break out of part 4 by having other things going for you, like nurse who is both free and insanely strong, which helps instantly boost her to higher pick-rates, regardless of anything else. But that's the point I'm making. She needed more things to go right for her to have the same pick-rate as her male counterparts."This is a pretty thin-ice topic, but you don't think this has more to do with that fact that one gender is more associated with forced sexual interactions than the other and that maybe it's more of a sensitivity issue?"
I don't think that a male version of MINA's mori would be considered controversial in the slightest, but it would unconsciously annoy the straight part of the male audience having to see themselves get moried as a survivor, hence why it doesn't happen. Kind of the opposite of "The male gaze" but then for male killer mori's"Wouldn't those female characters like SM who have sexualized moris be more popular amongst men who find that appealing?"
Well, that is quite the interesting part. There are sort of 3 camps here; a disproportional killer audience (who predominantly gravitate towards male killers), the survivor base, who predominantly gravitate towards female survivors, and then there is the competitive scene, where for whatever reason players once more start gravitating towards male survivors.
I think that the more dominant roles, which are killers and competitive survivors tend to gravitate more towards male characters. Since the match for killer predominantly doesn't include mories, I don't think the mori alone would be enough to make enough people play the character for that reason, as well as especially a bigger part of this more dominant audience doesn't really care seducing men as a female either, so I simply think they might even have a general aversion towards sexualized mories to some degree than seeking out characters for it"You're also making it sound like only straight men play this game and only that playerbase is considered, when fan reactions to characters like Wesker, Michael, and Pyramidhead make that pretty clear that's not the case."
I do not think the only audience of this game is straight males, and I play this game with female friends often as well. But a lot of the trends do suggest a male bias of some sort, which can mean multiple things. It can means that simply more men play this game, or it means that women too want to dominate predominantly female survivors with their male killers too, or whatever other reason there is for this peculiar trend."I dont recall him doing much touching in the films either."
Like I said with the myers example, such killers are based on a movie and have little creative input from beHaviour, which means they don't count towards the argument, but it illustrates my point; that even if they had males who inherently had sexualized themes, they would desexualize them if they were male, and sexualize them if they were female, as we see with Trickster. A killer designed to target predominantly the female kpop audience, yet has one of the least sexualized mories, because their male audience doesn't want to be forced into the Female Gaze, apparently, but it's okey when the Male Gaze to be forced on women, which is what I think is at play here"It kinda sounds like you're sexualizing things that aren't sexual and projecting. I can't say I find murder very sexually appealing. "
They absolutely know what they're doing. DBD is very subtle and very aware in which subgenres they are playing into, and MINA is one of the most obvious prime examples. Hell, even older killers like Huntress eventually get their half-clothed metal skins. A lot of that is deliberate, and where it's not deliberate it's unconsciously happening still.
But in summary, I'm more than willing to have my mind changed. You can put it up for experiment. If my thesis is correct, years from now, as beHaviour continues to release new killers, my thesis is that female killers combined with no-longer purchasable killers will predominantly form the bottom section of least played killers, and there won't be much of a chance to that.
And if I'm wrong, then that simply won't be the case. But 5 years from now when the next gameshow hits where we are supposed to guess the lowest played killers, I'll know which datapoints will yield the biggest chance of winning, knowing what I know about the dbd communityThat is the whole point I'm making. That female killers need to have more positive things going for them to receive the same amounts of playtime.
But what is your point, really? Do you think people don't want to play female characters because they're female or because of their kits? Or are you saying BHVR makes female characters worse than male? From my observations, from the forum, Steam profiles, and personal acquaintances, there are five killers that tend to be played by the same players. It's Skull Merchant, Twins, Sadako, Houndmaster, and Pig. All female characters, and all some of my most hated killers, but entirely because of their kits. And the fact that they tend to appeal to the same players tells me it's a kit thing and not a gender thing. Only one of these characters could be considered conventionally attractive. I would say that Skull Merchant is 100% gooner bait, from her shape to her gait to her mori, which I personally find to be the only one with blunt sexual connotations.
I know a few people who own the MiNA skin. They're all guys. They don't have these hang ups. You implying that moris imply covert sexual domination is pretty weird to me.
The killer being free (This trumps all. You're never going to be bottom 10 if you're a free killer)
Being licensed (being recognisable can help bring a pre-existing audience)
These kinda conflict with each other and reality. Ghoul isn't free, yet he's inescapable. Do you think these endless Ghouls everyone has to tolerate like or have even seen Tokyo Ghoul? And what about all the Rize's out there? I don't know the series, but she's not overly sexualized in appearance, and she's pricey, yet I see her a lot. People play Ghoul because he has a rep for being low skill for high reward. It's the same reason Krasue was popular before the nerfs. She was braindead easy with Bamboozle and Dissolution. Three of my most played killers are Henry, Vecna, and Dracula. I've never seen 5 minutes of Stranger Things, never played a Castlevania game, and barely know know what dnd is. I chose these killlers because I played against them and liked what I saw. Their genders are irrelevant.
I don't think that a male version of MINA's mori would be considered controversial in the slightest, but it would unconsciously annoy the straight part of the male audience having to see themselves get moried as a survivor, hence why it doesn't happen.
It probably wouldn't be, but I think this is still a sensitivity issue. Women don't often go around dominating men or fantasizing about it either. It's more fantastical, more fictional. This game is pretty far removed from reality. That's more what's at play, I think. Reminding people of real life horrors too much isn't a great move.
the competitive scene, where for whatever reason players once more start gravitating towards male survivors.
Male characters, particularly Ace, tend to be quieter. This is tactical.
or it means that women too want to dominate predominantly female survivors with their male killers too
Why don't you ask them? This is a really outlandish assumption. And I feel like you're talking about a past version of horror, when the grindhouses were populated by men. It was once scary man monsters dominating young women and could be viewed as a way for men to bring dates to theaters and have them became nervous and vulnerable. But this is not the present. Female horror fans, and female gamers, are as common as male ones. These gender stereotypes are largely dead in communities like horror and gaming. If this sort of domination mentality were even close to reality, wouldn't the opposite be the case? Wouldn't women play as female characters so they can dominate male players as women and live an unlikely fantasy?
Like I said with the myers example, such killers are based on a movie and have little creative input from beHaviour, which means they don't count towards the argument, but it illustrates my point; that even if they had males who inherently had sexualized themes, they would desexualize them if they were male, and sexualize them if they were female, as we see with Trickster.
It's in the eye of the beholder though. I do actually find the Micheal mori lightly sexual in nature. I don't necessarily think it's intentional though. It's just how it looks to me. Many things are just personal perspective.
You can put it up for experiment.
Kind of hard when this seems to be based solely on your own personal biases in assumptions and not any actual data. Put it to the test. Ask why people chose who they chose in both roles.
-
@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/466519/diversity-and-inclusion
I mean for priding itself with being diverse and inclusive they seem to be awfully scared about acknowledging their systemic neglect for Female killers, of which 60% end up in the least top 10 played killers (compared to 10% of male killers) and are often described as left buggy for prolonged amounts of times with female killers having to endure 2 cancelled reworks already (Twins and Skull Merchant). They seem to have little problem neglecting female killers and they have no problem sexualizing female survivors either.
With there even being a male-mori bias where predominantly female killers have a somewhat sexualized mori (Nurse sitting on top of you, Skull Merchant touching you softly, Plague leaning in for a kiss but puking instead, Mina entirely), meanwhile male killers don't have such mori's often at all, where there's no "Trickster leaning over the survivor they're killing" type of mori with no physical contact, where only Ghoul has something that could perhaps play into the female fantasy. But moris overall seem be mainly focussed around male fantasies with guys not wanting to see a male killer have any sort of romantic connotations with them during the animation.
So for a "diverse and inclusive" game, it's ironic that all the same gender-type disparities, biases and issues in real life are even portrayed existing within the game itself, and a lot of their own claims are just signalling but the reality within the game tells a different story, which they have an awful time acknowledging and great difficulty accepting as seen in; The Female Killer Phenomenon — BHVROut of my top 10 most used killers, two are female. It has nothing to do with their genders. It's because I play killers with powers I like. If they pulled a MiNA and made female versions, would I get them? Yeah, if it's a cool skin. I don't know who genuinely cares about this when they choose killers. Skull Merchant, Twins, Krasue, these killers have kit designs that I hate. It's not a gender thing, it's just a design thing. If their genders were different it'd be the same problems.
But moris overall seem be mainly focussed around male fantasies with guys not wanting to see a male killer have any sort of romantic connotations with them during the animation.
This is a pretty thin-ice topic, but you don't think this has more to do with that fact that one gender is more associated with forced sexual interactions than the other and that maybe it's more of a sensitivity issue? This also kind of contradicts what you're saying. Wouldn't those female characters like SM who have sexualized moris be more popular amongst men who find that appealing? You're also making it sound like only straight men play this game and only that playerbase is considered, when fan reactions to characters like Wesker, Michael, and Pyramidhead make that pretty clear that's not the case.
isn't turning on any women to any degree
Plague puking in someone's face has just as limited of a kink subset as Clown's finger sucking. Pretty sure both these killers trigger more phobias in people than turns-ons.
Yet somehow this mori too is completely sterile without any physical touch.
I dont recall him doing much touching in the films either.
male killers like Dredge
It's news to me that Dredge is male.
It kinda sounds like you're sexualizing things that aren't sexual and projecting. I can't say I find murder very sexually appealing. You're also ignoring the existence of female players, which may well make up half the base. Maybe they play guys they think are hot? But I'm not sure why they would, since they can't see them, which is why i dont know why anyone would care about this when talking about killers.
-
Head On is perfecr? I will take four Sprint Bursters over four cordinated Head On trolls anyday.
-
@Unequalmitten86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073307#Comment_4073307
infectious fright is incredibly broken. You don’t even need to look at the killer and scream. It needs to be fixed.
Infectious isn't the issue. As Aven said, it's the high mobility killers that are. It's also certain players using it a certain way. I sometimes use Infectious instead of Lightborn to avoid sabos, and for info for next chase. I've never used it to slug.
-
@drag27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073335#Comment_4073335
the same way you survivors are terrified of the fabled tunnel/slugging everygame. Survivors give the same treatment to their fellow gamers for the same thing. killer cant help if you feel "miserable" because of how they're playing. bring DS if help with tunnel, if you refuse to bring those certain perks then dont come crying about tunneling or slugging
Fast Track only just got changed and I've yet to see a 4man with it. Meanwhile, tunneling and slugging happen every time I play survivor. There's zero comparaion between a recent mediocre perk rework and a pain point that's been allowed to go on for years.
-
@SkeletonDance said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064948#Comment_4064948
Might be also because Mina can now be bought with shards
Pretty sure I said this before that was the case.
-
Are you supposed to win every match?
-
@ArkInk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073392#Comment_4073392
Definitely. There's no greater thrill in DBD than when you've got the whole team on the ropes but know they could slip through your fingers any second. It's the most addicting part of the game tbh
Addiction is the right word. I'm always hunting for the high of those tight matches.
-
Sometimes, but it feels pointless. At least when I'm killer and people do this, I can give whoever was the best or most active player hatch.
-
@Lorelei_Albrecht_TTV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073397#Comment_4073397
Quit assuming things. You make yourself look bad when you do that. I got a 3 k because the team threw themselves on hooks I let Kate get hatch because I felt bad. Went to the bathroom and wondered why I was still in the match 15 Minutes later. If you're gonna sit and assume stuff why not assume the Kate wanted to be a ######### because she felt like I tunneled, (I didn't) I don't slug for the 4 k btw. People like the Kate make me wanna start though. Honestly though but the summon the hatch idea is mostly for the twats like this who act like it was an act of skill finding it. It isn't ya know.
It's hard not to assume when all you've done is complain about everyone else being toxic, which sounds more like a reflection on yourself, because this stuff never happens to me. If people are toxic to you every time you play, the problem is likely you. 15 minutes is an obvious exaggeration too.
-
The matches I enjoy the most are the ones where everyone is alive but on death hook with around 1 gen left. At that stage, everything has been pretty even and anything could still happen. These are tragically uncommon though.
-
@TamaraLatte said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073301#Comment_4073301
I didn't say slugging wasn't within the rules, I just said it's too much hard work in solo, so I go AFK. He uses that perk that makes the people close scream, so he just steam rolls.
The Infectious Fright sluggers are the worst. A lot of Blights do it too. Unbearable.
-
This is sounding like the typical 3 to 5 business year goal.
-
@albertoplus said:
I'm pretty sure that people are mad not because the map is ugly but because how it is played.
Is the map visually good? I mean, the common answer is that it is one of the most impressive maps they have done, some even say the prettiest map.
Now about the gameplay portion? Awful map for killers. One of the worst maps (if not the worst) for killer.
Yeah I agree. It's a visually stunning map (minus floating grass and bottles) but it's immediately become my most disliked map, somehow beating Badham, a feat I thought impossible. I hate it as killer but I don't like it as survivor either. The sensory overload makes it hard for me to grasp the layout and there are so many dead ends.
But definitely kudos on the amount of work and detail that went into it. That I can get behind.
-
How casual or sweaty your match will be is up to your opponent/s and it will probably stay that way. Unfortunately, a casual approach generally means losing because, chances are, someone else in the lobby isn't so casual.
-
@EvilBarney666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4072995#Comment_4072995
So you feel it is ok to have an advantage by calling out perks, locations, builds etc.. but the killer gets nothing? Seems a bit biased.
Killer brings Spirt Fury. Enduring. "hey guys, spirit fury enduring drop early" totally fair right? Sure survivors would eventually figure it out. But the element of surprise is now gone.
Think comp teams would be as efficient if they didnt have comms?
If comp teams did turn out to be unable to perform against equivalent-skill killers without them, it would show just how hard the game leans towards killer. It took a comp team with specific builds actively seeking out momo to finally break his streak of almost 2k. How many teams on comms do you think he defeated before them?
-
The outfit is for Songkran. Part of the holiday is shooting each other with water guns in public fights. That's why she has a water pistol on her shoulder, with traditional-style clothing.
-
@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4072942#Comment_4072942
I agree trashtalk is fun, espeacially if you won and they tell you that you're bad :D
The kind of people that insult me because I'm german are also fun xD
That's me, telling you you're bad lol. I love being salty and getting into long arguments. Both funny and cathartic. I have no idea how people take it so seriously. I mostly play on console and feel so left out when I'm not on Steam.
-
SB is the most free of them all. Lithe you still often have to use smartly. A bad vault as a trigger attempt will get you hit. Same with BL and the stagger. Smash Hit should be more rewarding since you have to succeed more.
I don't use SB as survivor and I hate it as a 4.4 killer, but I don't think changing it would be good for the game. Survivors do need something. There's too much variety in killers to change it. Oni and Ghoul and other mobility killers don't care about SB. Nerfing it's duration would make it even less useful because it wouldn't affect slower killer much either.
Perks are just a dice roll. If I want to play a 4.4, I have to accept I might get 4 prerunners with SB and Vigil and I'm just screwed. Sometimes your build/character is wrecked by your opponent. That's just the game.
-
I personally love the trash talk in chat. I go out of my way to play on Steam just for those interactions, both good and bad, because i think it's hilarious. But it's also easy to close. Instead of blaming the entire survivor playerbase (who, incidentally, play killer too) just close the chat. You're feeding into it on purpose instead of walking away. And after a DC, what did you really expect? Someone wanted to make you mad and you let them.
-
@tjt85 said:
I really dislike the way the down vote button works. BHVR can keep it for the "data" for all I care, but it shouldn't be coded to no longer bump up topics that share unpopular or controversial opinions once they've been ratioed. All this feature does is stifle debate, which is not ideal for what is supposed to be a discussion forum. I've even been down voted for sharing my P100 Legion achievement because that's genuinely all it takes to get down voted around here. If you go into bat for an unpopular Killer you are guaranteed to get down votes.
Not that any of this matters because the forums are a ghost town, anyway. I don't know what insights BHVR can really gather from the same 30 or so regular visitors. Most of the player base seem to prefer reddit where the moderation is a lot more relaxed, even though the down votes straight up hide posts over there (which is also a terrible thing).
It's a ghost town because everyone is banned. A good chunk of the posters I've see around lately are new, and many of the remaining regulars are on their last strikes and are being cautious with what they say.
-
Went from p70-ish to p100 over the course of the event on Henry. Gained a few prestiges on other killers and survivors too. Total prestiges was probably about 40.
Though not my only p100, this is the first time I've ever hard-focused on getting someone there. Otherwise, I have a bunch of characters at p30-p50. Guess I'll start on another as we head toward the anniversary.
-
Every time I see this perk used in my survivor matches it seems to not just do this, but to favor someone who either just got unhooked or the person with the most hooks. And this included matches on comms where we know who is countering and who isn't. It should be reworked to go for the person with the least hooks.
-
There's a feedback section in the forum and outcry has often made things happens. Fog vials made it out of the ptb and then were decimated due to complaints. If anything, they take feedback too seriously sometimes. I'd rather them balance around data than whining since much of it isn't about genuine balance, but role bias and an inability of people to accept the problem is them, not the game.
-
@zonkednb said:
I try to engage in good faith. I don't downvote people that disagree with me, I downvote people that have an attitude problem or are failing to be constructive whatsoever. It's not a dislike button. Sadly, I suspect I'm the minority with that. I agree that the general usage seems to be just downvoting perspectives that don't align with one's own, especially with lurker downvotes.
However, it does its job from time to time, such as burying the regular "I just lost a game so I'm going to the forums to claim the Devs specifically hate ME and MY character" posts.
The thing is, despite all this, I don't feel the forums are an echo chamber. Every other thread has some… Spirited… Discussion, and the downvotes never consistently fall on a particular 'side.' Despite being a small collection of people, the bubble here isn't too bad.People fail to realize this. They think the forum is somehow biased against them (which is nonesense) but it's more tone and attitude that get downvotes more than anything else.
-
After many matches of getting wrecked by survivors holding W I have arrived to this probably small club.
-
@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4072506#Comment_4072506
i didn't realize that, huh. I always thought a brave yet controversial witty zinger could resuscitate a discussion.
Yeah the downvote number is fairly small too. I don't know if it's ratio based but I've seen posts with as few as 5 downvotes no longer bump.
-
@zonkednb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4072504#Comment_4072504
I actually remember you from a post I made a couple months back about new player habits. You told me then how you hit survivors on hook because you thought it would kill them faster or something lmao.
I don't think I ever BM as killer. To be honest the thought hasn't much occurred to me. I've seen it but honestly getting the down is enough satisfaction for me, especially if it's a survivor being cheeky the whole chase.
As for getting tilted by it; I can admit that it got to me a little after I got out of baby jail and started playing against survivors that could loop a little. They noticed the baby killer in me and went full blood in the water. It wasn't the majority of matches, but I wasn't used to it. I never raged or BM'd back, but sometimes I'd have to take a sec after a bad game, maybe play another game. That stopped fairly quickly though. I now see a BMing survivor as one of two things; an opportunity for an easy down, or an opportunity to play against someone good and learn from them, as they have confidence at the very least.
The worst I get these days is a mildly exapserated "C'mon man" in my head when a survivor is waiting at the opposite gate for me to force them out. Not that I care about bags on the line, that's whatever, it's just only ever happens when I'm playing a killer with no mobility and have to drag myself all the way over.Yeah that was a funny post. Nice seeing all the dumb stuff people did.
Like I said, in the rare case I do it's because they were going wild. But yeah, the down is usually enough. Can't tell you how many people tbag me in chase and get instadowned, and that's the end of that behavior.
I usually just go break pallets and doors if they longer. I'm getting points: they're tbagging no one.
-
@PleaseRewind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4071571#Comment_4071571
I see this all the time - not just in this game either. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who just don't care about an issue until it affects them.
100% agree, for small visual change that has zero impact on gameplay I also don't understand why anyone would be against this.
I'm really baffled here. They could just make an option to turn it off in settings, to put this "immersion" stuff to bed. There's zero reasons to argue against that. It's like saying we don't need wheelchair ramps. People in wheelchairs should just not do stuff. Yet the ramp doesn't hurt anyone. Things should be available to people, especially when it's this easy.
-
If an opening post gets enough down votes it will no longer bump, even with replies. Otherwise, it's a vibe check.
-
@zonkednb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4072483#Comment_4072483
The playful aspect gets me because I feel there have been a few examples where I've been BM'd but don't see the malice in it. Like it's after a really stupid series of events resulted in a bad outcome for me, it's almost like they're thumbing their nose like a mischievous scamp that tied my shoes together, and less a "ez" sort of vibe. That kind of thing has me laughing, usually. I had a match againt a slinger that 3-man slugged and chased me around the area with all my teammates. I must have managed 6 or 7 pick ups during his reload but he always got the immediate M1 and kept them down. When he finally got me, he humped, and honestly I just laughed.
Another thing I notice is if a killer BM's after a particularly unimpressive play - like just caught me in a bad spot while I was 99'd vs Ghostface - I'm unoffended because that tells me they don't often see that kind of success and overvalue how good it was. They're more telling on themselves in those cases.
I've accidentally BM'd when I was new to the game before. Example I've commented before was ringing Wraith's bell over and over after a down. I thought I was being cute. I think in my entire DBD career I've only ever hit one survivor on hook, and he had been giving me hell all match with bags and clickies, to an absurd degree, but was only mid in chase.As killer, I can't take survivor BMing seriously. I don't know how something as silly as rapid squats tilts people. They look like little children acting out and I think that's so embarrassing to get mad at. It's like you said, they're like mischievous scamps. Even when the whole team is BMing, I usually don't respond. I also don't think it's nearly as common as people act like it is. Most of my survivor matches, everyone just runs out. The egc drag-outs rarely happen on my teams (though they do happen to me as killer, just not constantly.)
Unprovoked killer BMing bothers me more because they're already the power role, and it feels like they're abusing it. It's often the ones who play dirty too. Add in that soloqers have little control over their fate, so even if someone on the team tilted you, its not the whole team's fault. But people are unreasonable.
I used to hit people on hook when I was new. Didn't know I was being toxic. I thought it would help me somehow or something idk.