cogsturning
cogsturning
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4070417#Comment_4070417
Your bias is that devs are making changes because of simple noise when it applies to killer issues and not because of the possibility that the thing is genuinely problematic. Ghoul is massively complained about including by content creators but you don't acknowledge that because this noise hasn't been validated. Therefore you have the bias that killers are listened to over survivors when this just ignores the nuance of individual issues.
I've said this before but i will say it again : Fast Track was always an unhealthy design, it just didn't matter and require attention because it was undertuned.Because this keeps happening. Fog vials were complained about being "annoying" and were obliterated. Even now, finally getting evened out, they are still trash. I snort every time someone uses one against me. Many people thought the anti-tunnel just needed number adjustments, but the outcry nuked that. What's the last outcry that helped survivor? Legion being removed from 2v8? Amazing, a temp mode. Maybe Skull Merchant? How long ago was that?
My bias isn't towards the killer role. If anything, it's towards certain people who play it. It's supposed to the the strong role that manages the map, applies pressures, tracks events, juggles four opponents. It's not supposed to be the whiny-baby-who-wants-everything-for-free role. My killer got nerfed recently. I didn't whine about it, I didn't make threads calling it unfair while survivors have this and that and that. I just accepted it. It's the survivor side that needs help, and it just can't seem to get a single thing, not even a mediocre perk.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4070336#Comment_4070336
So you're saying it'd be fine if it lost the permanent aspect. But it's still "punishing" killers for hooking, which has been the argument. What's the difference?
The person you're responding to is probably the most honest of anyone lately, tbh. But the difference is one word:
Unregressable.
The same thing that killed anti tunnel, really. Because the loudest voices in modern DbD aren't playing killer at all, they're playing saboteur.
Killing survivors isn't the objective for them, it's apparently "all gens at zero or no deal". 4k, but they completed 3 gens, so it doesn't count: buff regression.
Everything else is just gaslighting, lies, and manipulation. The perk "pUnIsHeD" exactly the same as before, it's just inciteful language. Same as "you'll see more tunneling" or "more blight" (do what they want…or else).
It's why no one can give a solid answer. It's not about "punishing hooks" or anything, that's simply how about half the perks in the game work: triggers based on game conditions or advancing the game.
Because it certainly wasn't "punishing" when DS and OTR disabled in end game, apparently. Those were good, healthy changes, but in 2026 lingo we're apparently "punishing survivors for completing their objective".
It's just panic because if they can't keep the gens at zero, they can't "win"… because the saboteur player only wins if the gens never have progress at all.
Yeah, you're right. And everyday we have people here asking for hook grabs back and whining about the 15s basekit BT. God forbid you just eat the lose you earned.
If unregressible is the problem, then maybe hook states should be removable through some means. It's pretty unfair you can't reset your hook states, ya know?
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4070306#Comment_4070306
If they take that long to do something about Ghoul I actually believe alot of Survivors will leave this game or just move to killer and cause an oversaturation of killer players.
I think a lot already have, or greatly reduced their playing. At this point, most of the people I talk to who play regularly lean towards killer. I've shifted away from 50/50 to more killer as well. It's not just Ghoul for me. The complete death of anti-tunnel has left me bitter. And this FT business is making it worse.
But its a revolving door. New content means new meat for the grinder.
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4070336#Comment_4070336
You put way too much stock into your personal experience and data when those aren't definitive
The perk just is strong and unhealthy on paper, just because it attracts the wrong people doesn't make it bad. You're only using it because you're looking for evidence to support your bias.
And people weren't complaining about it before because it was undertuned, there was no point of complaining about, what is so hard to understand about that?What's my bias? I play more killer than survivor and this is a perk I don't want to use, and am unthreatened by. Why would I care what happens to it? The only bias I have here is CCs dominating balance and decisions. That bias is quite severe, indeed.
You really can't put too much stock into your own experience, especially when half the vocal portion of this community seems to barely play it. I played 500 matches in the last 30 days. That gives me a decent idea of at least my region. Meanwhile these forum members just drop a video from some dude who makes money off this game. I get why BHVR bends too, the CCs keep the game visible and relevant. But these people have their own biases, and they're dominating the conversation. If they'd cried as much about Ghoul and whipped their fanboys into a frenzy, the game's most hated killer would have been nerfed a long time ago.
Because if the narrative is "I'm being punished for hooking" then the perk was already unhealthy. What's so hard to understand about that?
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@GeordieKiller said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4070313#Comment_4070313
i think you misunderstood what i was saying there regarding bad data Avens experience can be accurate to her like my personal experience is accurate to me but BOTH are bad data as it doesnt give the whole picture like your experience accurate to you but still bad data hence why is used nightlight to showcase that actually it is used highly and has a high escape rate but not tied to personal experiences as it gathers it data across all games
and it is 100% issue to do with health as yes the perk did that before the rework but with ONE Key difference it originally grants a 1% bonus progression for great Skill Checks when repairing generators. which offered counterplay as a killer can erase that progress but now killer cant at all as its permenant progression nothing a killer can do to erase that progression how is that fair?
look in the end of the day its getting nerfed we can disagree or agree with it but its happening
Personal experiences are kinda the only data that matters when you're the one talking. This community keeps using streamers jumping through 50 unseen hoops to farm a 15s clip as examples. Is that good data? Nightlight is very limited, so also bad data. And who knows what data the devs are using. Are they looking solely at escapes? Because if they are, that's questionable data. The people trying this perk out are people who keep up with changes and with community talk. People who have a good grip on the game. The person who logs on a couple times a month on Saturday isn't even paying attention, and they're probably not a great player. Can't say I really trust this company with data anyway. They give us killer stats that exclude DC matches, so are definitely deflated from the reality of matches, and they give us a stat page that throws out survivor losses when the person abandons, inflating their personal stats. The only way this could be proven to maybe be an issue is if individual players suddenly go from 40% ERs to 50%, and well never know that. I can say my monthly ER is steady regardless of my build, including when I tried this perk. If anything, it may have dipped it a couple points.
So you're saying it'd be fine if it lost the permanent aspect. But it's still "punishing" killers for hooking, which has been the argument. What's the difference? From what I understood, this was a perk where people held their tokens until it would finish or near-finish the gen anyway.
Again, I don't care about this perk. They can delete it as far as im concerned. It's the reason they're doing it I take issue with. I promise you if there'd been no social media commotion this wouldn't be happening.
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@GeordieKiller said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4070305#Comment_4070305
Right so you believe it has dropped off cause in your games you have seen less of it in use and you personally arent getting any use of the perk im sorry that just bad data, as i can say that in my personal games i seen it used in a majority of my games a mininum of 1-2 survivors using it and it has a huge impact in my games as a killer which is actually acurate
that why i went to nightlight while it doesnt give the whole picture since it looks only at steam, its not influenced by personal experience its every game and that what the results shows
fast track in its current state with permenant progression that you get from killer doing their job is not healthy for the game at all it needs the nerf and im glad to see it getting a nerf and i hope the nerf is a strong one ie remove the permenat progression .
So your personal experience is accurate but Aven's is bad data?
My experience aligns with theirs. My killer losses are against good players with little to no gen perks. My killer stomps are against people who run perks like this.
And it's not an issue of health. This perk already did this before the rework. Where was the problem then? Oh yeah, that's right, the CCs weren't screaming. This is an issue of who gets listened to and who doesn't.
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I got this bot last night. I don't know how this is allowed to continue.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4070297#Comment_4070297
Yeah, exactly. I am also quite sure that many games which were won with Fast Track in it would have been won without Fast Track. But its usage was higher, because it was recently changed, so more people were using it. Granted, when I tested it, I did a full Gen Build including Toolboxes, Hyperfocus and Stake Out, so I dont even know which Perk did the heavy lifting here.
But overall it felt less useful than other Perks. So I am not really bothered if it gets changed again, it is not like I lose part of my Build. But just the impression once again.
I ran it with Deja Vu and the only matches I won with it were those where the killers got barely any hooks and we would have won anyway. The FT was incidental and basically a wasted slot.
@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4070292#Comment_4070292
Odd how after over a year Ghoul complaints aren't taken into account as he's "performing within expectations". But a garbage perk getting a buff to being a mid perk gets instant adjustments based on complaints.
It took how long for Blight? 6 years? So we have 5 more years for Ghoul. Be patient.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4070282#Comment_4070282
Still, not really a good showing once again. You are listening way too much to the loud people, the Perk is already falling off and used less, simply because it is still not good (or at least not as good as the more popular Survivor Perks).
It is not that I care about Fast Track at all, I tested it and I dont think it is worth bringing. But it is always concerning to see how fast changes happen when people complain loud enough instead of waiting before things have settled down.
My thoughts exactly. I'm not going to form a full opinon yet, but seeing it listed here this quickly is as unsurprising as it is disheartening. The perk is kinda crap. I used it in probably 15-20 matches and didn't have one instance where I felt I got genuine value. I checked the scoreboard on all my killer matches and 19 times out of 20, the matches I lost had no Fast Track and many of the matches I won did. It's a low-mid perk being used by gen jockeys who are bad at chase and think it'll give them a leg up. Yet these changes were very fast, and nothing will convince me it wasn't outcry-based.
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Better locker RNG. A change in the locks in some way, if not total removal. Other killers have way more liberal teleports. It's too much slow down for a killer who's teleport already has a big cooldown. An addon pass because very few are worth running. I only ever touch three of them.
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@Z0mbiv0r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4070130#Comment_4070130
I think using perks against it is not gonna change the outcome. That usually helps if there is not much difference in skill between killer and survivor. I don't usually bother using slowdown perks with killer anyway, I rather use other ones which are more fun to play. I'm not worried about using meta because I don't really feel like I need to win all my matches (even though I'll try to, but I'm quite comfortable having matches in which I lose as long as they're interesting).
I'm not saying I'm tunneled every other game. I've been playing DbD for half a month since I came back to it and my matches were going smooth overall up till yesterday, which was what made me create the topic. Also, I'm not the one being tunneled in all those matches. It was either me or some other teammate. And the first ones I got angry when some of my teammates dc'd or gave up first hook, but after 5-6 matches going through the same I sympathized with them.
And slugging happened only actually in two matches, one against Nurse and the other against Oni. Still, my point remains that those are unhealthy playstyles that should be balanced around, not just patched with some perks. And yes, I include genrush too.https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4070105#Comment_4070105
I think you are right in many points, I just gave up hope long ago on people, so I guess what I try is for someone up there to realize there are some valid points in my critics and do something about it. But yeah, I guess it's just wishful thinking. Like, through the years most of the comments I've read on these forums are the same: killers not acknowledging when they're not right and survivors behaving the same ways. And most of the time, not offering reasonings and being rude about it too. It seems like not so many people is able or tries to (my money is on they can't be bothered to try) empathize with the other side or even consider their point of view.
I realize the irony since some of you think that's what I'm doing here, but it's not that I feel people would listen any other way. And again I'm generalizing, so that proves your point. Not trying to say I'm a victim, but I do feel like that's the kind of attitudes I find the most by a long margin.
Just a final question - a genuine question. Why do you feel killers would be buffed so hard if they disincentivize this playstyles? People will complain first when you change something, sure. But change after change I think they could find a healthy balance without buffing killers that much. But that should come in hand with this MMR rework we are so desperately in need of. That's what I think anyway.Oh make no mistake, I sure don't have hope in people. I can only do my best to not be a dick in a video game. I don't really expect any consideration in return. The problem is that there are sides at all. Most of the more reasonable people I interact with play both sides.
Why do you feel killers would be buffed so hard if they disincentivize this playstyles?
Because the most biased killer mains are the loudest people in this community. It's also what most of the popular content players favor. It's the role that sells the game. They will kick and scream just like they did with the last effort to mitigate cheese. That ptb lasted, what, 3 days? Nothing will happen without them getting massive compensation.
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The things that will be nerfed by this are niche builds few people use. Stakeout, Hyperfocus, and Fast Track can still be played together without nerfs, just like DMS, Surge, Grim, and Pain Res will still work together. It won't hurt full aura or full undetectable. The problem is it simply limits things further and narrows the meta even more. We're gonna see the same boring builds over and over even more than we already do. It'll be Stakeout/Hyper instead of Resi/Deja Vu.
Who decides what's healthy and what's engagiing? Your healthy builds only work when they're evenly in play. I run no slowdown and I'm tired of prerunning Sprint Bursters zooming away as soon as they see my 4.4 killer. I don't know how you can argue that as engaging, nor should I have to run The One Aprroved Build to manage.
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@Z0mbiv0r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4070069#Comment_4070069
It's not about liking or not liking, it's just that I've become wary of everyone. Or tired. The amount of times I've found players, usually males, who go crazy the moment you make a mistake. Plenty of people complaining or trying to show you how to do things when most of the times they don't even know. And then there's the hatemail of course, but that's another thing entirely. I'm not free of blame either. I am an introvert guy, I'm usually quiet, I'm not used to communicate, to chitchat and I usually feel uncomfortable in those situations. I mean, I can't even play Monster Hunter with one of my friends much because he gets pretty intense and chatty about what he can do or what he think I can or can't do.
I guess you're right when you say generalizing and assuming is not good (not that I mind about people being or not on my side as much) and certainly it's not fair. But even when I am to blame for falling to generalization and false assumptions, I do think we should find a way to get rid of those playstyles. I don't think it's that far fetched to think that by adhering to some basic rules, most of the players would eventually feel, if not happier, less frustrated, angry and angsty, and therefore cases in which players make other players go through hell in retaliation of previous experiences would diminish. I'm no fool, I don't expect people to give up privileges and start looking out for other people all out of a sudden or globally. But if we don't strive to do better in every situation, then we will only spiral down. And the world is already a pretty unstable and unkind place to live in as it is.
As for the numbers. Maybe it's not 20-25% and more of a 30, but it sure is not 50%. No, I'm not entirely new (been playing since 2021, must have around 2000 hours in) but my matches tend to vary a lot and I often face opponents much better than I am. But it's fine, I don't mind not escaping as long as I feel that what I did mattered or had fun doing something. I am definitely not a good survivor player, and I also don't usually care for stats, but I might to try and learn the accurate number for didactic purposes. May be my escape rate is way higher than I expect.Can't say I've ever had that happen. No one is gonna tell me how to play. I won't even get on comms with anyone until I've felt them out. I'm not hopping on a mic with some random stranger, nor would I expect anyone else to.
If you want things to change, you should want people on your side. These big, broad complaints are daily here and it's pretty tiring. Nuance and understanding will get you further than generalizing. If you say "everyone who tunnels is a bully" ans you have killers here who tunnel, you just called them bullies, and they won't listen to anything you have to say at that point.
Even though I brought it up, if you don't have the stat page, I personally wouldn't recommend it. I didn't think I cared about numbers either and then I did. It's also inaccurate for survivors if you use the abandon option, because all abandons are just removed form the players history and not counted even though they're all deaths. Killer stats are fine, until they finally get this abandon option they keep whining for.
But if we don't strive to do better in every situation, then we will only spiral down.
There are plenty of people already self-policing. Every single day I give people hatch because they got a raw deal. Everyone I bother to speak with has a similar mentality. You can't remove tunneling or bully squads from the game. It would need to be a different game entirely. Deincentivizating should absolutely happen though, but it would come in the form of killers being buffed beyond measure, because these chronic complainers on the other side will settle for nothing less.
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@Z0mbiv0r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4070048#Comment_4070048
Yep, I am aware and agree that most SWFs are not navy seals squads. Still, as I said in the previous post, it's about the potential ability to cause harm. And hence why I said 'it's what I'd like, but I know it's not going to happen'. I always play solo. The one friend I played this game with left it long ago after hooking me in (pun intended) and tbh I don't trust people enough to start playing with randos. And it's fine. I love the game and I love playing solo. Except when I get several matches back to back suffering cheap tactics just so they can get their satisfaction of 'another game won'.
And for those of you who are all about numbers, I probably escape like 20-25% of my matches and I am usually fine with it. As a killer, I usually get several games of 2-3 kills, followed by several of 0-1 kills, followed by some of 4k. And it's usually fine too (even though I find killer more stressful than survivor).I always play solo.
Yeah, I guessed that. The most anti-SWF players in this game are often solos. I can promise you it's not the land of milk and honey it's assumed to be. It's just having more fun while still being beat. There isn't really anything to distrust either. If I play with someone new and I don't like them, I just delete them after that session. Easy.
Except when I get several matches back to back suffering cheap tactics just so they can get their satisfaction of 'another game won'.
I get it. It's frustrating, and I'd like it changed too. I had more than one killer repeatedly slugging everyone yesterday without hooking anyone. I've been hard tunneled out by Blights 3 mins into a match. I think these things should lose power. But this sort of generalizing and assuming about bullying doesn't win people over to your side. I just got out of a match where someone accused me of targeting them because they had a Pride flag (which I never even noticed), when in reality I was on one of the worst maps for my killer, with a hex build that was immedialty cleansed, and everyone prerunning from me. He was just the easiest to catch when I became desperate. Yet he made a wildly offensive assumption and then blocked me, instead of simply starting a dialog.
I probably escape like 20-25% of my matches
...20%? That's a crazy number. Are you a newer player? Are you logged into the stat page? My 30-day as survivor is usually around 50% ER and I'm mid, at best.
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I'm all for deincentivizating camping, slugging, and tunneling, but you want this and SWF gone? So what's left? Every match being identical, with a hook spreading killer going against 4 solos? Boring as hell.
I'm really tired of everyone generalizing SWF. As someone who's played with serveral dozen people, there's no one way that SWF is. The comp players doing clock callouts are a tiny minority. The average SWF is regular people playing in a regular way, while talking—and still getting stomped. I escape probably slightly more matches as a solo than in a SWF, but I have more fun in SWF. It's not some all powerful force.
And as much as I'm against hard tunneling, and how I do agree some unwell people use this game to boost their fragile egos (I've met my fair share), you can't say everyone who's aggressive is a bully. You have no idea why they're acting the way they are. Carried over tilt? Losing all their other matches that day? Not even understanding there's a potential moral dilemma? Generalizing "tunnel = bully" just ain't it, just like generalizing "SWF = problematic" ain't it.
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I'm in the cult of floating objects myself
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4070015#Comment_4070015
You are responding in a thread I made, and since you're not understanding the situation that I described and was talking about, that is why I'm addressing you to set the record straight about the actual subject matter of this post. And not what others are trying to make it into.
Also just because you've been lucky not to experience such a horrendous game, doesn't mean that your experience is universal. If it was, I wouldn't have made this post. But I already got my answer from Mandy.I understand what you're saying, but Rokku expanded it to the risk of killers being reported entirely for fully well-intentioned farming. What you're describing is clearly reportable as griefing, because if everyone is terrorizing one person that's clearly what that is.
I don't know if "lucky" is the word I'd use. My matches are just a different type of bad My last survivor session included both a Twins and a Krasue repeatedly slugging and not hooking anyone until they had all four players down or people bled out. My matches involve endless hard tunneling and slugging for the 4k, or killers who are so aggressive my teammates DC and the killer still has zero mercy for me. I wish I could get some friendly or farming killers.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4069873#Comment_4069873
It's not compassion, it is spite. These types of killers think the people who want to leave because 4 slowdown blights have already sacrificed a survivor at 5 gens are "ruining the game" and so they will hold them in the lobby to flex the fact that killer has all the power in determining who gets to stay in a match, as well as morally grandstanding. Also some killers just do it because they know they are further ruining someone's else's time, and some killer mains get enjoyment out of that.
I don’t know why you think the person playing killer needs to be the villain here. Survivors often throw for dumb reasons. I play enough survivor to usually figure out why people are acting the way they are and react accordingly. I've even had matches I've lost because the sandbagger has re-engaged, becauae I made the choice to allow them to get it together.
The killer knows the survivor wants to leave because their build is either completely oppressive or designed to be miserable.
What is your idea of an oppressive build exactly? Every build a killer can bring? I almost never even bring a single slowdown.
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4069437#Comment_4069437
Could YOU imagine doing 4 to 5 gens, while your teammates refuse to do anything but run around and just drop pallets or fill cans with blood and leave them for the killer to kick repeatedly for 20+ minutes, then they rat you out and body block you, get you downed repeatedly until the killer kills you or slugs you and bleeds you out? How is that being friendly? How is that fun or fair? It's not.
When I posted this question I had 3 matches like that in 1 day, hence my post. IDK what was going on that day but it was miserable and I just wanted normal teammates and a normal match. I don't mind farming or being friendly AT THE END of a trial, but when you get targeted and can only choose between either eating the DC-penalty OR sitting through all of that, yeah I will 100% clip them and report them.Yeah that's clearly not what Rokku and I were talking about here. That's not being friendly if you're targeting someone. The concern was it being reportable and getting genuinely friendly killers into trouble.
I've also never once had what you're describing happen, either to me or someone else in the match, nor would I participate in griefing a teammate because they don't want to be involved. I've had people who don't want to interact with the shenanigans but the killer has always just ignored them. I can't even recall the last time I had a killer that wants to farm.
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I'm sure this will get axed.
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@random1543 said:
As a mainly survivor player I'm curious why do you guys ignore them or slug them at the start of the game? Is it more of a compassionate view to give them a chance to decide to play the match normally?
Because if they do nothing but run up to you until death they should get hit with the go next prevention if they do it frequently. vs if you slug them they can get a abandon condition and leave for free if they continue to get picked up by team then slugged again.https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4069862#Comment_4069862
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4069868#Comment_4069868
For me, it's a few things, and it also depends on circumstances. I almost never have people try to die at start (I don't play Ghoul), it's generally once the match has immediately snowballed in my favor, particularly if someone DCs after going down 15s into the match.
Sometimes it's compassion. I play about equal parts both roles, and I understand that survivor has zero comeback ability past a certain point and I know that hopeless feeling. So I try to get them to re-engage. Other times, it's the opposite of compassion. If you're throwing in a match that's still winnable, you're screwing over your team, I'm not just gonna set you free. Get your penalty if you want to go, but you're ruining the match. I don't slug repeatedly either.
I don't necessarily think people should be punished though. I never know if it's regular behavior or if they're just at their wits end. Even if I don't do it myself I know how aggravating this game is.
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Ignore them, usually. If they keep getting in my way I'll slug them. If this person is doing this early enough in the match for it to be a full-blown throw, I'll give the best player hatch (literally just got out of a match like this, with one dead at 4 gens, two throwing, and one juicer continuing on, who got hatch.) If multiple people come to me to make a visual appeal about their bad teammate, I'll let them all go. I don't like free stuff, especially when one person causes others to fail. And there's zero sense of accomplishment in such a match.
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VC isn't going to stop complaints. Peope mute (I would), people will be toxic, people will be deceptive, people will be bossy—and people will still be bad. Comms are one part of SWF. Knowing and caring about your teammates is the other, bigger part. That gap is unbridgable.
Speaking of cutting things out, remove the basekit unhook endurance/haste...Bring back, either by reverting or adding new ones, the perks working around downed survivors.
Why do you need wins to be so incredibly free for killers? Is your KR 30%? The only way you could want this stuff so badly is if you want to use the cheesiest methods ever. Killers already tunnel and slug constantly. They don't need help with it.
My point is, aside from my dislike of handing out crutches. (especially because where are my killer crutches? Killers don't get any anti instant unhook crutch, or anti genrush crutch, etc
What is bloodlust if not a crutch? How about you can't kick gens anymore too? Why should you be able to do that anyway?
There seems to be this anti-playstyle sentiment where someone doesn't like a playstyle so the devs remove or hinder it for them
Oh, kinda like stealth for survivors when Distortion was wrecked? But camping, tunneling, and slugging are still constant 10 years in. What's been removed?
maybe I am holding out the false hope that we'll actually do something good to make the game more enjoyable than just "lets increase pallet density because the pig got a couple kills"
Pallet density was reverted. And make it more enjoyable for who? The worst killer players that want 80% KRs regardless of skill? I'll stick to a game that at least feels mildly challenging. You realize that 4/5 of this game's playerbase have to want to play survivor for you to be able to play killer, right?
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@Nazzzak said:
I hate farming and will make it clear, on both sides, that I'm not interested. As survivor, I just smash the gens and leave. I can only recall one match a loooong time ago where they seemed to take it personally that I didnt want to farm, but I ended up just afking and folding/putting away some laundry. I also remember one game being sus on the farming Pig they were working with, especially how close she was hovering when they came and joined me on the last gen. So I left and went near an exit gate, and sure enough she had NOED and endgame perks. I was the only escape lol
The fake friendlies are the worst. I haven't had one in a long while, but I'm still cautious of friendly killers, especially when they're friendly from the get-go and there wasn't some turning point. I also used to get ones that would go AFK until the gens finished and then come to life with everyone goofing off around them and then down the whole team with NOED. Matches like that gave me trust issues.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4069431#Comment_4069431
The reasonable person does say play the way you want. But this is DBD, where reasonable is drown out by the irrational..
Tell me, which side gives up the moment the other side doesn't play the way they want? Statistically, because we know both do but one does it far more and believes it to be a right.
The game is ten years old and during those ten years it's been nothing but tunneling, camping, running these perks. Yes, killers complain about survivor perks, but do survivors call out other survivors for using broken perks? Because I've only really seen killers calling other killer bad for "needing" slowdown or "needing" to tunnel to win. Show me a survivor calling a survivor perk a crutch.
There's a reason why The Survivor Handbook on Playing Killer is a meme. Survivors love to trash talk killers for playing a certain way. A lot of Steam profiles had to go private due to it.
It's almost as if one side has more power over the other in the average match and can determine how the game will feel.
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@Unctuous_Robot said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4069784#Comment_4069784
Killer queues don't go over a minute usually.
It's 2-4 mins for me regularly during the times I play.
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We can get rid of Vigil when we stop killers from stacking antigen. Until then, both sides get to be miserable.
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Bro what? He can't move his body through space like Nurse and the vines have a shorter range than her blinks. He's already so slow against prerunning and holding W. Undergate takes an age to regain and coming out is slow as hell. The counterplay to avoiding vines is to turn. He just got a nerf too.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4069463#Comment_4069463
Before the second stranger things chapter which introduced elusive, the only perk that removed aura was distortion, which was already gutted a long time ago.
If everyone dodges against the ghoul, that would probably mean the ghoul itself is an unfun character to face and should be changed.
There's also Shadowstep. I've gone against teams where multiple people have it and they create areas around the map where they can both block aura read and be untrackable. And yeah, now we have Elusive, and it's obvious it's going to show up in more perks. So if you get a killer you think might lean towards aura (like Henry or Nurse) you can put on Shadowstep, Distortion, Self-Preservation, and ESP.
It's already pretty apparent everyone hates Ghoul. But, unfortunately, BHVR isn't going to allow people to simply not play against him.
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This is...wow. Is this satire? Just say you want survivors to spawn on hook.
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Nobody should see anybody in the lobby. No characters, no items, no names. If not that, then the killer's name should at least be visible to the survivors. If killers can snipe, survivors should be able to too.
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@Trex_Crazy said:
Maybe, idk. I haven't made one and dont plan to, not really that concerned about my stats, free charms I'll never use or bhvr telling me to give them money.
I used my throwaway email account for it. I only check when someone says there's a code for a free thing.
Good idea to avoid the stat page. Those numbers will do you no good.
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If I recall, you get access to the stat page that way, as well as emails with free charms and whatnot. I can't really remember, it's been awhile since I made mine.
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@Dem34888 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4069571#Comment_4069571
3 times DC in a row
Again, OK? Nothing in the screenshots indicates time passage so they're just random screenshots. What is your point? That killers DC? We know. Someone simply stated their experience. I had two killers DC in a row yesterday, but for the most part, it's fairly rare.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4069563#Comment_4069563
For me it's more how they're handled. No catchup for Survivor + instantly failed Adept (which was an update they added, for whatever reason) is what makes it more harmful. Otherwise I couldn't care less.
Yeah that should be fixed. Hopefully we'll get some weak bots to fill the empty space one day. But I'll be a little sad because I'll have nothing to laugh at.
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Ok? DCs happen, yeah. No one said otherwise. I have a whole folder of these if you'd like me to dump them.
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I get great satisfaction out of killers DCing. Me laughing at them behind my screen is enough of a penalty. The match just ends, survivors get escapes, and that's a wrap.
Though I don't really care about DCs overall, it's different on survivor if you do it really early, because you could be prematurely screwing your teammates. I've had two matches recently where all three of my teammates DCed within 2 minutes. It wasn't a great feeling, being left alone with zero consideration, with killers who were still determined to kill me. As killer, you're just you, so I think those DCs are much less impactful.
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@radiantHero23 said:
Why don't we just all stop playing the game at this point if we are so ready to quit when something isn't going as planned?
Allowing players to abandon matches for X, Y, Z reasons was a bad idea from the start. It encourages quitter mentality and spreads like a virus.
Exactly. Not just encourages the mentality, but allows the devs to dodge having to make meaningful changes to flawed aspects of the gameplay. Why do something about pain points when you can just have abandons pop up for any reason at all.
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@Brix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4068963#Comment_4068963
because ppl want to "skull murchant" ghoul. "I dont like this killer so i throw a tantrum and hopefully they gut him to the point of being useless" We dont need that to happen again with a killer just because some ppl dont like a killer or not liking to learn counterplay.
I know people like to say this but no one ever asks for it. He just needs adjustments to not be powerful and easy. But the longer he's detestable, the worse the sentiment will get, and it's been a year. People are only just getting over Clown being overtuned for a few weeks and that was awhile ago.
And SM isn't the same. Her power is just bad and unenjoyable. Ghoul could be fine with tuning.
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Are they actually dominating your matches because they don't even average a 50% ER?
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@mysticecho said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4069473#Comment_4069473
Ghoul is also there and I believe he gets people dcing against him all the time
Very true, and to me what that says is that survivors win again Ghoul more than Blight for the numbers to even register. If I look at my own matches, the Ghouls are usually bad players cheesing their way to success in easy mode, which means good players often beat them. I have my far share of wins against Ghouls. Blights, on the other hand, are usually good in my matches, and usually win, and acquire DCs. The babies are the only ones that don't.
There's also the fact that a lot of people try both Blight and Ghoul because eof their reputations. Which one of these killers would you have immediate success on? And which would you drop after a few losses, which are added to the stats? It's the same reason reson Nurse isn't in the stats. She's the best killer for skilled players but she's also pre-unlocked, so everyone tries her and lowers her numbers. I added to her pool of losses when I was new too.
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At the risk of sounding like a broken record, any match with even a single DC is excluded from the stats they show us, and a lot of people probably DC against the army of tunneling, slugging, 4-slowdown Blights in upper MMR. The stats aren't really accurate to anything.
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Naw this isn't it. Visible in the match details, like the plan seems to be? That's fine. But in lobby? No way. There are perks that counter specific killer abilities, and there are perks that you could choose based on your killer because some tend to use certain things that are strong on them. And everyone would dodge against a Ghoul.
For every medkit I've brought against Plague I've had survivors bring aura blocking against my aura build. Match variable are a dice role.
That being said, I don't think killers should be able to see survivors either. There'd be a lot less dodging if no one could see anyone. And you shouldn't be able to just slap on Lightborn because you see flashlights, or anti-heal becuase you see medkits.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4069052#Comment_4069052
Exactly, if I ever see a killer get banned for trying to be friendly this games community is cooked lmfao
I don't want to ever see that even considered unless its clearly keeping someone in a match hostage!
Also @Skeleton23 you can't be slugged for 30 minutes, plus you can also abandon if slugged multiple times.Could you imagine being banned for this? The occasional friendly killer is an absolute joy between getting tunneled and slugged every other match. I've never done a full-on farming match as killer, it's just not my thing, but I love having friendly interactions with survivors who got a raw deal because their teammates DCed or sandbagged. I don't know if I'd want to play without those nice moments.
Being treated badly because you refused to participate is different, but I've never seen that happen. When someone doesnt want to be involved, they just sit on gens and leave.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4069272#Comment_4069272
I don't know why people generalize people in this game.
This is the only game I have seen this be such a major issue.
I have played TCM, I have seen people play F13 - this is the only game in any asym game that hyperbolizes one side to imply a rulebook is a thing and how we want you to play a certain way.
I don't really care what you use, but let's not kid ourselves when killer mains love to complain about 2nd chance perks and exhaustion perks.
I don't really comprehend what you're implying, play however you want to play ~ but you forfeit your complaints on your side too.
Some people seem to view their opponents as a whole hive mind in this game after awhile. Even just in-match, a lot of killers start to see survivors as one unit and not four seperate people, so one tbags, and they throw their anger at the whole team. It's really odd. I don't get it.
I played 12 survivor matches last night, escaped 9, usually with teammates, and I don't recall anyone tbagging. We just left. But the way people talk, it's every survivor, every match.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4069354#Comment_4069354
The only builds I see that will be impacted are haste (stacking being incredibly niche), healing speed (again, very niche), and like 2 "regression perks".
Most meta builds like aura read and gen control is unaffected, since triggers for taking chunks of a gen are typically unique. It isn't even clear if something like pop+eruption is included but pop+eruption and surge+eruption are basically the only regression combos that share an activation condition and do basically the same thing with different percentages.
The only clearly impacted perks would be call of brine and overcharge, which honestly I fully expect they will buff those as well to help offset the impact of this system.
I'll also add that this doesn't even come close to perk interactions that can have a massive impact. Like, for example, thrill+ftd can up to triple hex cleanse times and these two perks aren't in "the same category". Ftd isn't even an action speed modifier, technically.
Yeah I'm just not understanding the logic here. The most problematic and focused builds will be untouched, and more obscure niche builds will be hurt. This is just dictating playstyles and narrowing the meta further, and that's the last thing we need. Why release 10 zillion perks if you want to restrict their usage 10 years in?
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4069152#Comment_4069152
This topic remains one of the easiest ways to see the bias a lot of this community has against the Killer role. The abandon system on Survivor was added to prevent Survivors from having their time wasted in scenarios that are commonly unwinnable (such as all Survivors being on the ground), but the minute you suggest the Killer is afforded the same luxury in endgame, you immediately get hit with a barrage of downvotes and people insisting it is somehow not comparable.
Everyone can seemingly get on board with the idea that Survivors shouldn't have to sit on the ground for four minutes (even if the Killer isn't being intentionally malicious), but saying the Killer shouldn't have to wait 2-4 minutes while Survivors intentionally stall out the EGC timer while spamming loud noises is incomprehensible.
Telling the Killers they should just wait out the EGC timer is such a double standard because no one would ever accept "just AFK and wait it out" as a legitemate solution regarding slugged Survivors prior to the abandon mechanic.
Letting the Killer abandon in endgame (where the match is basically won for remaining Survivors) and be replaced with a bot wouldn't tangibly affect the Survivor experience, yet the idea is always met with heavy resistance. The majority of arguments I see against it, are simply fronts for "I enjoy flaunting my victory against a real player, and a bot wouldn't provide that same satisfaction." Like you said, in a game where Survivors can abandon for simply being downed one too many times, there's genuinely no reasonable argument for this to not be a thing.
So the people who play killer and are against this are biased against killer? Or are you just projecting your own biases?
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Would be nice. I feel pretty much forced to play 2v8 becuase of how badly it messes up the regular queues, but then I'm left grinding for pips.
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I can't say I care about this one way or another. They can keep it or dump it. I generally don't start doing anything worthwhile until i know both who and where the killer is. The only killer that isn't obvious right away is GF, and if I don't see pig boxes or hear Micheal tier up, I can guess it's probably him. Scratched Mirror, which I sometimes still play, is an exception, but this won't tell you that's what's in play, so it'll still be a surprise when he pops out with no global sound cue.
@bm33 said:
I think hidden until a trigger like first chase would be fine since that would be the same as swf call out. It's too bad they can't make pointing at killer/killer item be what triggers an announcement to team who the killer is - could even tie it to a scoring event like "first to identify killer."
That's a great idea.