cogsturning
cogsturning
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075695#Comment_4075695
And that somehow makes it okay to have perks that have no counter on the non-power role?
Killers have a bigger snowball potential because they're the power role. And survivors have a massive advantage if they play well. You have good points on the game's flaws, but you can't fix flaws with perks. That needs base game adjustments, not bandaid fixes that create issues.A good example is how long Borrowed Time was in the meta until it became partially base for the game.
ThIs community and its CC deities refuse to let the base game receive meaningful changes. Even this forum keeps repeating the mantra of "just bring perks" every time a problem is brought up, and the devs keep making perks to do so. The opposite example of yours is Elusive going form basekit in the ptb to an element in newer perks. This is no longer the game it was when BT became basekit. If that happened in modern DbD the social media outrage would can it immediately.
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Interesting how many people just went right to talking points about how strong Fast Track was (I disagree) but that's not what the post was about. I want to know why an activation condition the perk already had was suddenly found to be unfair, and when this fairness epiphany will apply to other perks.
I don't care about this perk. I played against it and won;I played with it and got almost no value, and took it off pretty quickly. It was situational and conditional and I like guaranteed value in my perks. The perk isn't the point though. It's the conditions around which this nerf occured, the supposed reasoning, and the double standard the nerf presents.
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@QwQw said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075384#Comment_4075384
I think what I'm saying makes perfect sense, you just don't want to listen to it. And by the way, I win a majority of my games, which is saying something because I primarily play weaker killers without gen regression. I flat out should not be able to do that, but I can because most of the survivors that I'm going against aren't playing very well. Behavior needs to actually implement advanced tutorials and strategy guides so that more people understand what they're doing, and then buff the weaker killers so they can compete against competent survivors.
I flat out should not be able to do that
I mean, you kinda should. Killers are designed to win or tie basically every match to land at 60%. I've got about a 70%-80% KR on killers like Dredge, Clown, and Doctor. I lose when the survivors are better then me, not equal. Survivor is designed to lose more than win. It's far more macro and info-heavy, and harder to succeed at. Both sides can play bad and the killer will still likely win.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075531#Comment_4075531
I never said anything about the original intention. I am addressing your comment about what the moderator said to you and I explained that the intention to not have it there was a decision made, not a bug. However with the feedback it was re-assessed and then given the way it was implemented back, was done as a bug fix - I can understand that part being confusing.
Then the problem is the wording. If it wasn't a bug for it to not appear and was instead intended, you didn't "fix an issue" you reinstated an element that had been intentionally removed. Just saying "Reinstated RBT to Pig's in-lobby visuals" would have been better. It's just a semantics issue but that does indeed cause confusion. You could have spun it as fan service instead, for a more positive reaction.
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@ThatRyanB said:
One thing I want to make sure is clear about diminishing returns is that we're not looking at this as a one-and-done change. We're looking at diminishing returns as an ongoing process. This is why it's not being paired with wider perk changes, as I've seen some folks request. When making a broader systems change like this, it's often important to limit the number of simultaneous, linked changes so you can better monitor and understand the impact of the bigger-picture change. Then, equipped with that knowledge, it can help inform whether more granular changes (i.e. perk adjustments) are needed.
We're actively monitoring feedback, so please, play around with diminishing returns and continue to stretch and prod at it. If there are specific things that are causing friction (i.e. perks that feel particularly impacted by this change), let us know and we'll bring it back to the team.
You guys aren't exactly known for your speed of action. When can we expect changes that make this not seem like a bad idea? Years from now? How much patience and forgiveness do you think people will give?
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@The_Count said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075502#Comment_4075502
The reasons killers can't have good perks/have to be stuck with mediocre ones are called Nurse and Blight.
Do you really think survs being rewarded for failing is good design? I'm sick of this.Would you like a list of every killer perk that activates when a gen gets completed?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075441#Comment_4075441
Many are recent too, and a lot of people are pretty secure in their perk choices.
Exactly. This is the problem with Survivors not really getting new good Perks because they either have stupid activation conditions and/or are just too weak. So whenever a new Survivor is released, the question is "Is one of those Perks better than one of the Perks I run since 2018?"… And the answer is almost always "No".
Sure, there is the person who just has more fun with a specific Perk, but the bottom 20 are neither fun nor good.
Killers have it better, because they either get actual useful Perks or at least useful with specific Builds or on specific Killers (Vecna even has 3 Perks which see use: Turn Back the Clock: #17, Secret Project #48, Hive Mind #62, all are in the top half with Turn Back the Clock even in the Top 20).
Granted, being able to be used by specific Killers is an advantage and makes it easier for a Killer Perk to see use.
Out of the 17 survivors listed here, I only have 2 unlocked. I generally won't waste my shards or money on characters I won't use. Even when these perks pop up in the Shrine (and the more recent ones have maybe been there once, if at all) I often won't waste them there either. If the perk looks like crap, why clutter up my screen more? So many other people probably don't even have these perks as well.
Yeah killer is a little different with how the killer and the perk work, like how you'll almost always see Thano on Plague and Legion, or FtD on Pig. Henry did get some solid perks though; survivor has been pretty crappy for the most part.
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Of course they obliterated it. Expecting anything else is foolish.
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These are mostly crap but more than half are on licensed characters, so less people will have them if they don't check the Shrine regularly. Many are recent too, and a lot of people are pretty secure in their perk choices.
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@QwQw said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075141#Comment_4075141
"So, if survivors win it's because the game is catered to them. If they lose, it's just because majority of them don't know how to play."
Uhh, yeah, that's literally what I said. The majority of survivor players are not outstanding at this game, which is why even the weakest killers like Skull Merchant, Ghostface, or Trapper are still able to hold a fairly decent kill rate. Yet the moment any of these killers who are B-tier or lower go against a team that actually knows what they're doing, they don't stand a chance.
And yes, obviously killer's have to have skill to win. What kind of question is that? If you're not good at a certain killer then you're going to struggle even against below average survivors. The problem is that it doesn't matter how good you are at playing a specific killer, because for the majority of the roster there's really not much you can do against genuinely good survivors who aren't holding back. Only the A-tiers can somewhat hold their own, and basically only Blight and Nurse have a shot at actually winning.
And by the way, my brain is not "mush" because you reside in an echo chamber and I have a different opinion than you. Smh, grow up
You're saying the majority of survivors aren't good while blaming the game for killers doing bad. Do you not see the hypocrisy in that? "Killer lost, it's the game's fault; survivor lost, it's their fault." I've seen great players of every killer, and I've seen people who do well with anyone. Stop blaming the game for your loses.
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075322#Comment_4075322
Ghoul exists so yes but fr though I've been seeing a pattern where new killers and reworks designs are very easy where the skill floor is significantly raised and the ceiling low.
The next problem is Devs ain't gonna do anything about it because since they see no problem with this since they confirmed they ain't gonna do anything about Ghoul and even though his pickrate is astronomically high since his kill rate is "okay" they don't care even when majority agrees Ghoul is miserable to play against.
Now Myers since he has way less pickrate and even less Kill rate Devs ain't gonna bother at least not for a year or 2 since they see the rework as a success.
I'd say Springtrap and Henry weren't like that. Springtarp is fine, and Henry takes some effort. Krasue, at least, got nerfed. So it's a mix with the newer ones.
I'd like to see Ghoul's real numbers, with the DC matches included. The numbers we've seen are probably only half his matches, if even. The DCs with him are off the charts. That alone should tell them enough. But even what we've seen is concerning. He was the only killer with both a higher KR and a high pick rate. It's not mains or skilled players carrying the numbers, it's everyone doing well.
Pretty glad I don't see many Micheals anymore though, which is a shame.
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@Anti051 said:
Keep it real, most survivor players are only having an "enjoyable" time if the killer isn't challenging and can barely do anything to get you.
So do killers only have an enjoyable time if the killer is braindead easy to get wins on?
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075153#Comment_4075153
It’’s not a mediocre, low-value perk in its current state and pretending that it is is disingenuous, IMO. I use it in every single survivor match and it’s a great perk. Think about all those times when you get chased off a nearly-completed gen. Fast Track has allowed me to get those gens finished in nearly all of those close-call situations. Saving tokens to help break 3-gen setups that killer is closely guarding is also a very powerful use. Killers have a very valid complaint about this perk, especially when multiple survivors bring it and are using toolboxes/BNPs with it.
And I also used it, solely to see it'll it was even worth talking about, and I found it to be a situational wasted slot. I either won matches I was going to win anyway, or the match was such a mess the tokens didn't matter. You can't control when you get skill checks, and I often didn't, and you also still have to hit the greats. I've also yet to have any trouble from it in my killer matches. This perk already gave gen progress based on hooking. Where were all these complaints for however many years?
Is it good on a 4man with toolboxes and gen perks? Sure, but what isn't good on a focused 4man?
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Yeah I can't stand him now. He's so uninspired. I'll still play him, but only as Scratched Mirror.
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I'm excited to see what mediocre, low-value perk we'll be blaming for our actions next month.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075083#Comment_4075083
But right there, your last statement is already incorrect "players abusing it". Nobody is "abusing" anything. They are playing the game within the rules of the game, the problem is you just don't like it. Which is fine, but you are blaming the players.
Why do we keep acting like players don't make choices? The devs are partly responsible, and so are the players, if you're chosing to do something you damn well know is hated. People can take some responsibility for their actions.
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The problem I consistently see is this: very good Nurses and Blights win, but bad Nurses and Blights lose; bad Ghouls will still win. Powerful killers should also be at least kinda challenging to play, but even if the player is bad at looping, the mobility makes them able to constantly be on top of someone or in a new chase. Toning down the ability would be nice.
He is also annoying and tremendously unfun to play against.
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The difference betwen solo and SWF isn't just more info. More importantly, it's caring about one another and trying to be a proper team. Last thing I want is random teammates trying to unload the killer onto me because they can see my aura. A lesser version of basekit Kindred (killer aura could be cut) makes more sense. It let's everyone see what the other is doing during an important part of the game without the ability to sandbag or grief another. And if it reveals a rat crouching in a corner on the other side of the map, now you know.
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073307#Comment_4073307
Hot take IF promotes slugging to much and should be reworked to only work on injures make it a spread the pressure type perk
At this point I have to agree, this perk is now being used almost exclusively by people who full-team slug in my survivor matches and it's become a problem. They could just shrink the radius, so it's an anti-sabo perk. On some maps, with a killer with a large TR, it's basically unavoidable.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074884#Comment_4074884
So why is it the default "which CC said this" because this has been the norm for a while now with a lot of the slowdown getting consistently nerfed until recently along with BHVRs refusal to really impact the survivor gameplay loop. Please play and record your game against competent survivors that actually try to win and come back when you play as your average B tier.
As for the 2nd paragraph. Trying to use that is questionable. Its a screenshot of the end game screen. There was no video on how it was played out. It could have been a slaughter. It could have been down to the wire at 1 gen left against Ghoul so trying to use that as a "gotcha" doesn't really work. But if you want to go that way play this match as almost anyone under ghoul except Singularity and Twins and then what. You get stomped if you try to do anything.It's the player that matters, not the killer. Find me a streamer with 8k in GF or Clown or Bubba who loses more than they win. They complain endlessly, but they don't lose. This is that same argument I just mentioned. Survivors win, it's the game's fault. It's maps, pallets, perks, RNG, comms, weak killers. We need to fix all these things. Survivors lose, it's their fault. Better get good.
This out of context screenshot is what's being discussed, and all the things that people talk about being super strong are here. "Just bring perks" in the form of WGLF, Unbreakable, StB, and MfT, the oh so scary Fast Track and BNP, and an obvious 4man. And lot how it went. All you need is the killer deciding in the lobby that they're going to slug eveyone. Survivor is so strong.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074957#Comment_4074957
That team had 4 toolboxes for fast gens plus perk and both bnp and fast track give gen progress that is unremoveable.
The main part is that two people had unbreakable and one had combo in form of mft+wglf which makes him pick fast so 3 out of 4 are equiped to fight against slugging and they had good perks for making their objective faster and one even had perks to stall tunneling with shoulder the burden plus ds. I bet they were deffinitely togeather and maybe were on coms so it wasnt overkill more like even match.
Yes, it's obvious this is a 4man. They have a full gen build and the perks everyone says to bring against slugging and they still all got slugged and lost. That should say something.
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074861#Comment_4074861
I don’t mind being slugged at all. I’d rather be slugged than be hooked - at least I’m not getting progressed as fast towards being eliminated from the game. In my experience, killers who prefer to slug instead of hook usually lose.
If you’re staying down for minutes or your whole team is getting slugged, that is because 1) survivors aren’t picking each other up, and 2) survivors are getting downed very quickly in their chases. Neither of those things is a problem with the way the killer is playing.
Oh and let’s not forget that survivors are allowed to abandon match for free if everyone is slugged. Are there any situations where killers get to abandon match for free when they are losing?You're not making a distinction between a single person being slugged for a particular reason, where they might be picked back up, and someone playing an obnoxious high mobility killer with Infectious Fright intended to slug the whole team. Maybe the killers you're playing against are awful or something but average soloqers are not combating this.
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074892#Comment_4074892
Ok - and I had like 4 killer matches yesterday where survivors DC’d the first time they were downed. Not sure what your point is other than being intentionally oblivious to the fact that this happens a lot on both sides.
It does happen on both sides. So now show me the plethora of videos about entitled DCing killers.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074862#Comment_4074862
Slightly incorrect. If the Killer DCs, it is because of the Survivors. If the Survivors DC, it is because they are entitled.
Funny enough I just now got out of this match:
Bro couldn't catch anyone and ragequit with no gens even half done. Totally not entitled behavior.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074872#Comment_4074872
Well yeah because survivor right now is really strong. Just because the player base isn't that good doesn't deny the state of it. We're unironically getting to the point where the base kit perks and maps are coming back to make even bad players get chances near to winning against someone physically better than them but since they chose a slightly weak killer they get to that point.
Which CC is responsible for this mantra of "survivor is really strong right now" that I keep hearing, because it seems like a way to just avoid responsibility? You can blame the game when survivors win instead of blaming yourself.
You're also saying "survivor is really strong" in a post where the dreaded and all powerful 4man, supposedly the strongest thing in the game, got full-team slugged. So what does weak look like?
Also, I have higher stats on Henry, Dredge, Freddy, and Vecna than the official numbers you posted and I'm mid, at best. And it's only those four because I've never played the others. But you're right, the statistics don't paint a clear picture because matches with DCs are cut. The numbers for thise killers are likely 5 to 10 points higher in reality. That aligns more with my own stats.
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@coldflame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074872#Comment_4074872
i will send you ten dollars if you can link me a single post on this forum saying that prerunning is cheating
Who said anything about cheating??
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074861#Comment_4074861
So tell me the killer runs you down until you drop. That's 30 seconds for your entire team to reset or work on gens and you can just run to a stronger part of the map for your team for a pickup. Do you SERIOUSLY not see how valuable that is? It even saves slug situations where slugging is only really viable on said high mobility killers. If you're getting slugged by john clown or plague then sorry your team or you are just bad at the game. The reason why you need anti slug perks rather than base kit because it SHOULD be team play that beats a killer and not pure 1v1.
As for getting slugged for 4 minutes. I personally have no issue as when it's that it's usually my teammates that are not doing the correct things or are bad not the killer being particularly good. Tell me would it be fair to add anti slug stuff for a majority of the time is the survivors failing to do the correct play? This is like ANY other game where something is somewhat common so other in response bring stuff to counter it the only difference is DBD is a lot more pre-emptive than other games as you can't see the other teams builds as killer and can't adjust your own mid match.
I'm sorry but if you don't like DBD being a pvp game where there is people actually playing to win there is a bunch of PVE games on the market.Kinda hard to say a team is bad when it's soloq. There's no control or coordination. There is no team. Too many killer wins are determined by just one bad team member. It's easy to see when you've landed a solo lobby. They're basically free ego boosts for killers.
I've had matches where people have gotten up with Conviction while I chased and hooked someone else and all I had to do was note the direction they went in to find them. Again, it's crap without coordination because it's quite possible no one will pick you up at all. The only solos that play like a proper team are usually high-skill, high-hour. A solo team playing against a high mobility killer running Infectious Fright and intending to slug everyone is basically guaranteed to lose.
Live service games get adjusted. If something is bad, it needs fixing. It's funny how if it's a killer benefit it's "it's a legit strat go play something else" but if it's survivor benefit it's "nerf it."
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@coldflame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074864#Comment_4074864
no survivor strategy has ever been held to this standard
You're literally looking at one of the survivor strategies being held to this standards in the OP. But here's a list of other survivor strats that get complained about daily:
Being on comms
Exhaustion perks
Endurance perks
Prerunning
Flashlights/Saboing
Stealth
Holding W
Using meta perks
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@coldflame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074860#Comment_4074860
if slugging 'shouldn't exist' then you have a problem with the game not the player.
Nah, I have a problem with the players who choose to do certain things they know are hated becuase of a win-at-all-costs mentatlity, and who also stopped the anti-slug from going through by mass social media screeching. The game can change. It has, many times, and it needs to again.
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074845#Comment_4074845
Who in the community is arguing that it’s ok for killers to DC? And you’ve never seen anyone here argue that survivors should be able to DC and that it’s fine because “the match doesn’t end and there’s still a bit to play for the person who left”?
You’re just making generalizations without any evidence and making it seem like one side (“killer-sided players”) are the bad guys. I’m pretty sure killer players get the same penalties that survivor players do when they DC.
It's not about penalties, it's the way the community views it. Survivors are entitled for quiting yet pretty much nothing is said about killer DCs.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074856#Comment_4074856
Slugging really isn't "crappy" never understood the disdain towards it. You legit stay in the game longer if you were to be slugged than if you were hooked and left to hang there for the maximum 69.9 seconds. People have tools to use against slugging but rarely ever choose to use it like Conviction.
As for it might happen. Yes that is a very valid response to playing to win. Say this to ANY other pvp game and you would be agreed with 24/7. And as for fast track I see at least one or two but that might just be me and playing in a higher mmr bracket on average due to the average skill of a survivor I face.Then go get slugged over and over and tell me how fun it is to be in a match where you're licking the ground at 5 gens. It's pretty common right now so you shouldn't have any trouble finding one of these super fun matches. And it's even more fun, by your standards, when you get to bleedout for 4 minutes. I've had two of these just in the last couple days.
Ah yes, the legenadry high MMR that everyone is in yet everyone also agrees matchmaking is garbage. Yeah I see one or two too because it's had buzz. These are matches I usually win because this perk is nothing. Second chance/chase extenders are still the meta perks i lose to.
Perks shouldn't be the only way to counter someone else's decisions. I don't need gen perks to do a gen, I don't need healing perks to heal, I don't need chase perks to win a chase, but I do need anti-slugging perks to stand back up. There's a reason there was an effort to make this counterable at basekit. Because it's garbage and it makes matches awful. Anti-slug perks are also garbage. Conviction requires coordination, and the killer can just run you down until you drop. Unbreakable is one time use. Exponential is snuffable. "Just bring perks" yet the perks are crap.
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@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074856#Comment_4074856
I'm not arguing your point in full but this does go both ways. The survivors went in with those builds, deciding before they knew how the killer would play. It could have been a baby trapper for all they knew - this does go both ways. Granted yeah I'm not thrilled to see a Ghoul in this scenario, it's important to remember that this is not one-sided behavior. Both sides did things that are at fault here.
Perhaps we should be looking at the outcomes, rather than attempting to dismiss the example by distributing blame?Sure, but they didn't know that for sure going in. They just assumed. Do you think they would have said "oppsie sorry thought you had that one perk" if they hadn't? It's also only one match. How many more did they do this in and then cherry pick this one instance? I've also yet to get a full team doing this. It's not common. And they're also complaining about SP and Resurgence for some reason, because survivors aren't allowed to have perks, I guess.
@coldflame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074856#Comment_4074856
trying to win using an available, legitimate, strategy is not 'crappy behaviour'
Then why are they trying to justify it it with "but perks". Full team slugging is hated and shouldn't exist.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074847#Comment_4074847
Well when you see 4 toolboxes you can have a pretty good guess on what perk they will have. The game indirectly forces people to make choices. When something becomes to prevelant in the meta that the devs made then yes at some point the balancing can be to blame for how people play.
Except that people are doing this regardless of what they see, and blaming Fast Track. I just had a Billy do this to me yesterday and said just that in chat. Meanwhile, I was the only one with a gen perk, and it was just Deja Vu. I'm pretty tired of every single little thing being used as an excuse for crappy behavior. This perk is not "prevalent in the meta." I barely ever see it.
And you can't convince me someone who slaps Infectious Fright onto the games most hated high mobility killer is only doing it when they see four toolboxes. I would never do this regardless of what i think might happen. And even so, if just the lobby tilts you this hard, dodge.
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I think it's a garbage idea thats dictating what everyone should or shouldn't run, but idk if build changes will make people quit. I'll still be playing, my bitterness will just increase.
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You didn't know what perks they'd have. You just decided to be this way. Don't blame the game for your choices.
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074801#Comment_4074801
How do you profile a Survivor? Their just skins basically I can understand not wanting to face a 4 squad of the same item but it's not exactly game breaking to see those as a killer if it was like you could see their perks then I'd think it was busted
Profiles, like Steam profiles. Not in-game avatars.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074801#Comment_4074801
That has always been intended, that the killer can see what survivors they face and adjust their loadout based on what they're seeing - flashlights, toolboxes etc. Its part of being the more powerful role.
Seeing the lobby is fine, I guess, but I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the ability to shop personal profiles and dodge if you don't like their hours, which killers can do for survivors but survivors can't do for killer.
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@Mandy said:
This was something that was kind of in the game at the start, you could see the profile of the killer and from that deduce what killer you were playing against. It is not something we will go back to for a multitude of reasons but one in particular - is that Survivors can quite easily change their build to counter the killer ie put on Calm Spirit when facing a Doctor. Its definitely not what we intend for the game.
So why is it now that killers can browse survivor profiles and dodge if they don't like what they see? Seeing the survivor avatars in the lobby is one thing, but I don't understand why you can see each other's profile info.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074492#Comment_4074492
Are you implying the kill rate is due in part to lightborn? 🤯
I'm not going to bother with this from you. I just can't.
No? Where did I say anything about the KR? I'm saying I've used Lightborn for 75% of my time in this game and I still think it needs changing. That's a low KR. I have higher KRs on other perks. It's not about it being strong or weak, it's about it being unfair and undeserved.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074678#Comment_4074678
Anyone who says they face nothing but sweats is full of it.
Exactly. We have Streamers who play this game for a living, are live 8 hours a day and you see how random their matchmaking is. E.g. someone like Otz is without a doubt at the highest MMR and he is doing funny challenges most of the time aka not playing super seriously. And he wins most of his games. So if even someone like him almost never faces really strong Survivors, anyone who claims they go against good Survivors constantly is straight up lying. (Or has a weird perception. If someone is really bad at the game even mediocre players seem to be good…)
But Streamers are also one reason why we will never see an actually good MMR-System. Because said Streamers would then almost never get into games and would have to wait very long. And it would be really bad advertisement, if someone like Otz would be doing waiting simulator or even play a different game while waiting and obviously the Devs dont want that.
Do you think all these socal media whiners are getting less than 60% KRs? I highly doubt it.
They dont. Someone a long time ago (when Killer was harder) did a check and watched Streams of several streamers and even those who are very biased and claim that they go only against the Top MMR and that Killer is extremely difficult were having at least 3K on average every game.
I also know one Streamer, who is one of the most disgusting people you can face. 19k hours, tunneling every game, always playing with the best Add Ons (but weird builds like Surge on something like Billy…). Wins most of his games, but throws a tantrum when he for once does not get a 4K in one out of 20 games or so. And those are the people who make survivor-bashing content…
Someone a long time ago (when Killer was harder) did a check and watched Streams of several streamers and even those who are very biased and claim that they go only against the Top MMR and that Killer is extremely difficult were having at least 3K on average every game.
I mean, is it really a win if it's only a 3k? And can you believe it, they almost finished the gens! Survivor almost wins sometimes. So OP.
Wins most of his games, but throws a tantrum when he for once does not get a 4K in one out of 20 games or so.
I knew someone like this as well. Similar hours. 90% KR. Cries when someone gets hatch. Endlessly talks trash about survivors. The loudest are also the ones doing the best.
I just finished a session of thirteen survivor matches. Only three were team wins. Cheese was off the charts. 5-gen sluggers with Infectious Fright, hook campers, multiple tunnellers. Complaining about survivors and how strong they are while winning consistently is legit pathetic.
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@MagixD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074479#Comment_4074479
If you were able to beat people with no addons and no perks, that doesn't raise a red flag to you? You see countless posts on reddit/twitter/whatever of how difficult the current killer experience is right now. Do you think the vast majority of the killer mains are just bad at their role and don't know how to play, and you are some outlier and amazing killer player? Even p100 one tricks who pour thousands of hours into one killer, are complaining online about the current killer experience.
The issue isint that killer is so easy and you can beat lobbies with no addons/no perks, the issue is you are getting those kinds of lobbies of survivors that allow you to kill them with no addons/no perks. Your experience doesn't represent the actual killer experience. I also have games where I am able to walk around the map and m1 everyone (i was playing freddy and missing too much lol) and get a 4k. Sometimes this happens multiple games in a row. Am I some 1v1 comp god that's basically on the same level of Otzdarva? No. The difference between you and actual killer mains, is they recognize baby survivors from good survivors. You havent been in lobbies that force you to tunnel.
Please post some footage of your game play or even get into streaming. Just one video. You got a 4k with no addons/no perks on Trickster? Damn I guess Wacek the best trickster in the world has some competition now. If you are this good with killer, why not put a video out there with tips and tricks to get 4ks without tunneling?
Fun fact: Quietkills once challenged the "i dont need to tunnel to 4k" people live on his stream. They didn't get a single kill against quietkills' swf and only a couple hook states, and his swf was just killer mains too.https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/XQAAZ6DO8X4Y/babykillerme.jpg
Just because people are complaining doesn't mean they're doing poorly. Do you think all these socal media whiners are getting less than 60% KRs? I highly doubt it. No one gets universally good or bad lobbies. Matchmaking is notoriously lax. I can drop 20 screenshots that look like yours too, but i also get psycho squads that leave me with 2 hooks. Anyone who says they face nothing but sweats is full of it. It should be that way for these highzhour crying sweats, they should face their own, but sadly they get plenty of babies to stomp too.
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@Balrog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074581#Comment_4074581
I have a boring answer, unfortunately: anything is possible!
Please I am begging
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@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074492#Comment_4074492
I mean if light born is unfair calm spirit is unfair too tho.
The only difference is that the survivor can't react to the killer but that is part of the games balance.
I think lightborn gets talked about in the first place not because it stops a playstyle but because it stops a playstyle that is well liked by people that want to interfere with the killer and don't want or enjoy sitting at gens.
If I bring lightborn and you see that at your first pallet blind three minutes in the game you now know you have to do gens. I know that this is frustrating but we don't see complaints like that about calm spirit countering scream builds and doc. And we don't see complaints like that about plague and legion making heal builds worthless. (We do see complaints about legion but more about men's then healing)
Maybe it is because blinds are the only weapon of survivors, maybe it is because of people that farm clips or maybe it is because among people that like torches there are those who use them cause they want to screw with the killer and those are obviously gonna be loud about hating lightborn.
All I know it that if bhvr announces they are reworking lightborn I quietly deinstall the game
Lots of perks are unfair. It's an unfair game. But, as I've already said, the killer can see the survivors, which makes it extra unfair. If the survivors could see the killer than yeah, they'd all put on Calm Spirit for Doc or Iron Will for Spirit, but they can't. Lightborn is also way more popular than Calm Spirit because it's more likely to be useful. I rarely see Calm Spirit.
If I bring lightborn and you see that at your first pallet blind three minutes in the game you now know you have to do gens
The typical thing is to fake not having Lightborn as much as possible, not to make it super obvious at a pallet. And if more than one person has a flashlight and they're not on comms, you get value more than once by surprising them.
Maybe it is because blinds are the only weapon of survivors, maybe it is because of people that farm clips or maybe it is because among people that like torches there are those who use them cause they want to screw with the killer and those are obviously gonna be loud about hating lightborn.
I know it's popular to hate survivors for using flashlights (or doing gens, or holding W, or looking at you too hard, or doing literally anything) but it's a valid item in the game with perks and playstyles revolving around it. I don't want to deal with it myself so I use Lightborn, but that doesn't mean I can't understand the perk should have been nerfed a long time ago. All the complaints around Fast Track are that it gives survivors free value for killer actions. Lightborn is similar, particularly the aura read, which shouldn't be there at all.
All I know it that if bhvr announces they are reworking lightborn I quietly deinstall the game
Quitting a game over one perk change? Bit dramatic.
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@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074492#Comment_4074492
imo, Lightborn is overrated. The moment survivors notice a killer has it, if they have proper game knowledge, they adapt by stopping aggressive plays and just doing gens, which is safer and more efficient than constantly orbiting the killer for a save. Just because their build was countered by the perk that doesn't mean they'll be useless for the trial, a 4-perks focused build entirely on flashlight blinding is little excessive, its like going 4-perk heal build and complaining you're against Bubba, Plague or Legion.
Also, Blast Mine still stuns killers with Lightborn, they just don't get blinded, which makes no difference because no survivor will be near a Blast Mine once it goes off. That perk still gets full value regardless of Lightborn or not.I'm not talking about how strong it is, I'm talking about how unfair it is, and that's partially because killers can adjust their builds to the lobby while survivors can't. Would you be cool with a survivor perk that stops all gen blocking perks? Or all regress perks? Or even something less common, like all haste perks? Does the ability to potentially shut down someone's build and make them perkless for the match really seem right?
Weird to have another person telling players what they should be doing with ther time instead of what they wanted to do. I thought we were all about choice in this game? That was the argument against the anti-tunnel ptb anyway. Doesn't seem to go both ways though.
its like going 4-perk heal build and complaining you're against Bubba, Plague or Legion.
This is just the luck of the draw though. If a killer could see four med kits and switch to a different killer, it'd be a different story. Just like if they couldn't see survivors and they played Lightborn and no one had a flashlight.
That perk still gets full value regardless of Lightborn or not.
Again, killer gets free aura read, which let's them know who has the Blast Mine and they can now tilt-tunnel them with the free info if they so desire.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074486#Comment_4074486
last sec switching still exists and there is a perk that guarantee a flashlight from a chest. To the other perks that are hidden from the killer, if the killer brings lightborn and nothing is used to blind them isn't it a wasted perk?
Also we are talking about an item not a perk. If the killer runs lightborn then the survivor doesn't need to waste time going for saves and progress gens. They could open a chest and get a different item. In reality it benefits the survivor side by not having two survivors in chase.
The anger for lightborn is not that it makes an item useless, many perks and killers can do that, its that survivors can't clicky click and annoy the killer.
Do you think I have anger for Lightborn?
It's an unfair perk. That's why I use it. It's one of two anti-item perks you can choose based on what you see in the lobby, and get likely value. What are you going to do about toolboxes? Bring regress? You probably are already doing that. A medkit? Not really worth changing anyting for. Keys? Oh no they can open chests fast! Fog vials? Who even cares? Maps? Now you know there'll be a boon totem. Free info, no need to counter. But flashlights are just deleted. You also get free aura read for doing absolutely nothing. And again, it's not just items. Flashbang and Blast Mine are perks. If someone has a build devoted solely to blinds you delete the whole thing with one perk.
In reality it benefits the survivor side by not having two survivors in chase.
This honestly reads like satire. "I'm helping you be better at the game by choosing how you'll play. You're welcome." Use the perk, don't use it, I don't care, but accept that it's unfair.
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@zonkednb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074310#Comment_4074310
I'm kinda with you on the petty MiNA dislike, if only because the comeback chapter had her spammed in all of my games and her little knife throw grunts annoyed me.
I got my petty revenge though. MiNA players love their Mori, so if I was the last survivor, I'd try to go down in a spot that breaks the camera and treats them to a view of a wall or box. That way I'm the real winner.
On Skull Merchant, the first time I ever saw her in game I thought her animations were bugged out. Turns out she's just like that. I think she'd be cooler if she ran tbh but maybe I don't understand character design.https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074311#Comment_4074311
Not so long ago I was on the Wesker hate train because I couldn't figure out how to deal with his power effectively. I've since seen the light and now I like a Wesker game. Anecdotal; most Wesker players I face are merciless.
Anecdotal; most Wesker players I face are merciless.
That's interesting. If we're to list the killer's most likely to turn friendly/meme, I'd put Wesker in the top 3. But it's been awhile. No one likes fun anymore.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074226#Comment_4074226
lightborn deletes a perk if no one uses a flashlight.
Or blast mine. Or fireworks. Or flashbangs. But you can literally see the flashlight in the lobby. This argument would only make sense if killers couldn't see survivors in the lobby.
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A discusion about what? What is it that you want? Duoing up speed-boosted? Gen times increased? What's the discussion point?
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@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074430#Comment_4074430
As I posted to Jesterkind: Given what you've said, do you think slugging is more or less legitimate as a result of the inherent risks?
As you pointed out a slug build is effective, but I'd argue it's only effective because it's not meta. Meta survivor builds don't tend to include anti-slugging. If Meta survivor builds did include anti-slugging, I suspect we'd see less slugging and more objective oriented slowdowns. Wouldn't this just make slugging vs. anti slugging be another potential meta choice, just as gen slow-down vs gen speed meta was a meta?
If both are simply different meta's, do you think we should be encouraging and adjusting them or just letting them take darwins course?
Legitimately asking, I'm curious as to your opinion.As you pointed out a slug build is effective, but I'd argue it's only effective because it's not meta
I don't really agree with that. Even if the survivors had a good idea they might face it, it's still effective against most players, especially mid-skill parties and soloers. I've been in matches where people have had anti-slug perks and the end result is the slugging just going on longer. I've also gone up against teams running anti-slug and sabo and I still win most of the time, even with them doing quick recoveries with WGLF, Soul Guard, and MfT. These perks just prolong the inevitable if the killer isn't a baby or bad. If a team is focusing solely on getting up from slugs they aren't doing gens, and they will lose eventually. Something being meta also doesn't mean people will counter properly. Pain res DMS is meta. Every time I play I see someone not let go of a gen before a hook.
Wouldn't this just make slugging vs. anti slugging be another potential meta choice, just as gen slow-down vs gen speed meta was a meta?
The difference is an anti-slug meta is solely in response to the actions and builds of one side. Survivors dont bring chase builds or gen builds with the idea of countering the other players builds, they bring them to be efficient at a task. The "anti" in anti-slug is the issue. It's purely reactive to the other player.
You're also talking about gen speedup vs gen slowdown as though they're even. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say half of killers run anti-gen builds, but half of survivors don't run speedup.
If slugging was to be "legitimized" then basekit anti-slug would be needed. As it is now, the risk is minimal because they can't pick themselves up. If a slug could stand up after 45s or something, that would make lengthy slugging much less valuable. I, again, don't think you should have to incentivize normal gameplay, you should deincentivize unpleasant and unliked gameplay instead.
You bring up talking about this without emotion and you're not the first, but you can't cut it out with a scalpel. If you look at a high-emotion thing like pvp gaming from a clinical view, you end up with a game thats perfect on paper—and a miserable product no one wants to play in reality.
My ER as survivor for the last 30 days is 54.36%. That's a pretty above average number, and I don't abandon, so it's genuine. Am I having fun with the role? No, not really. I've been dealing with a lot of tunneling of teammates and a lot of slugging lately, and I'm often the only escape, solely because my current build makes me more slippery. Meanwhile, my 30 day KR is 67.27%. Not as good as the survivor one, and it's been declining lately, but I'm having more fun as killer because I'm not at the mercy of anyone's whims or cruelties. Winning isn't what everyone wants. It's how things feel that matters to many, if not most. So if you go against people who want to win at all costs and don't care if they make you feel bad in the process, that doesn't encourage you to engage. You have the odd person here and there that says they like being tunneled because it's "engaging" (I don't really trust these people but that's a different matter) but you'll never see anyone saying they love being slugged. It's utterly unfun for four out of five people in the match.
My opinon is that slugging was never meant to be as strong as it was and it just wasn't factored in, and then grew into something that's know hard to take away. It even says on the loading screen that the killer's primary objective is to hook survivors. When I first started playing this game as killer, it never once occured to me to leave someone on he ground on purpose. I still vividly recall my puzzlement when I first started playing survivor and it kept happening to me. As far as I'm concerned, egerious, intentional slugging should be punished in some way. I've suggested for a while that a good option is for survivors to be able to start manually speeding up their beeldout timers after a certain point. Bleedouts already don't count as kills on the killer's personal stats. That should be made more clear on the scoreboard as well, and with BP deductions.