cogsturning
cogsturning
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All that's happened to base gen speeds is that they've been increased from 80s to 90s.
Ruin and Pop were recently both buffed. Turn Back the Clock has been a very popular new regress perk.
Diminishing returns has nerfed healing builds.
Survivors have to learn the counterplay to a new killer every 3 months, while killers can play their main forever with little change.
Thinking the most braindead autopilot killer in the game was "gutted" is a hell of a take.
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This really depends. If you know the killer is fully engaged far away, you can often go for the time-efficient under-hook heal. If the chase they were in suddenly ends, that's a red flag.
I'm currently running Lucky Break and if I don't get healed fast, my perk drains away. I also sometimes try to leave to heal and the person who unhooked me runs off thinking I don't want to heal, or doesn't want to waste time and follow me, and now I'm just injured. Everything is circumstantial.
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I played a few matches with him and had no issues. I even tried to recreate the pallet grab and just got stunned.
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Hope you like memeing cause you'll never get another serious match ever again.
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From what I recall from the voting, the only two things this perk needs is permanent progress and to be a boon. I don't recall if the great skill check thing was necessary to the design, but i also dropped off of the voting when I saw the direction it was all going in so I might be wrong. They could keep the penalty and make all progress permanent. If they keep the skill check thing, they could make it so the boon causes a constant stream of fast skill checks and you have to land greats for perm progress of some sort. This would make it a fast reflex perk, but also still makes it a troll perk for teammates who aren't ready for a boon that cause Merciless Storm.
This opens up the SWF issue though. If the perk is strong and 4 skilled people bring it and light it on four different gens, it'll be the new problem, and Shattered Hope will actually get some use.
The problem I see with this perk as is is that, considering RNG, the most you'll likely get on the gen is 10% perm, and by then, the gen is done. If the gen is at 95% and gets pain resed 3 times, does that 10%-15% really matter? No matter how I look at it, this is so low value with the time wasted in lighting the boon I just dont know how you can make it worthwhile without overturning it.
Now, the biggest detracting argument for this one is that it does somewhat break the rules of Boons, which typically don't provide benefits that last after the totem is snuffed
It's not permanent unless it's permanent. If the "permanent" progress goes away when the boon is snuffed then it's an even bigger piece of garbage than it currently looks like on paper.
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Six of these eight killers have a teleporting ability. I've been wondering if that's a factor, either with coding or with balance, because teleporters are mysteriously lacking in 2v8.
I think Clown and Vecna would be the easiest to implement. They don't have any map-wide effects and their abilities could be adjusted to not involve the other killer, like Clown's bottles shouldn't give their teammate haste.
Many of the killers I enjoy aren't in 2v8, which is one reason I barely play it, but I get they're not easy to implement.
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@random1543 said:
When It comes to a killer meta I notice a odd thing at least in my games, People who are playing weaker killers are running non meta sort of builds, If they do have a slow down its only one.
Meanwhile versing a ghoul or blight its almost certain they will be running multiple slow down perks. Sadly they are some of the more common killer. Nurse I find its 50/50 between her running aura / slow down. or she's flexing and just running one or no perks.
Its just amusing its most likely to have a weaker killer not running slow down vs hyper mobility killer who stack it.Personally I think this is because many people who play weaker killers play what they think is fun, and people who play stronger killers are sweatier and focus more on winning. I'm usually in the former camp: I play killers I enjoy playing, and with little to no slowdown.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077091#Comment_4077091
Um, its a killer perk?
Literally I was a expecting this morning to see someone from BHVR admit there was a typo in the perk release, that's how bad it is.
I'd really like to know a situation where BHVR thinks this perk is actually beneficial to the survivors. If you took the same design and made it a killer Hex perk it would be closer to being usable in the game.
I'd absolutely run 50% slow down as killer even if it gave a small amount of permanent progress.
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/466953/the-draft-for-boon-steadfast-sucks
Hey there! You mention not liking this perk from a values and conceptual POV. Would you be able to elaborate on what specifically you're not liking about it?
It makes gens 50% slower for very little reward. No one ever asked for a survivor perk that makes gens slower. That's what killer perks do. The only way this could make sense is if the boon also causes a constant stream of skill checks, making it both mechanically challenging to get its value from and potentially worthwhile.
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@Galafure said:
i think that the entirity of my point is nullified. Considering that almost every icon identifying someone is a killer icon or killer perk icon. It seems that killers want to trash talk survivors no matter what. But this is dbd forums.
You're reducing people's opinions because of their generic, preset pfp choices? Come on, man, that's silly. That's as us vs them as it gets.
I'm dead silent as killer unless the survivors say something first. I do all the trash talking as survivor, and most of what I see is survivors bickering amongst one another. I also have regular positive interactions with opponents. Killers being openly toxic in chat is actually the rarest thing I see.
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It kinda isn't good and fair for survivors to abandon, because those abandons count as null matches on their personal stats instead of as the losses they are.
As for killers abandoning with 4 down, anything that encourages 4man slugging is a no from me. You want to make a mess then the least you can do is clean it up. The difference between these two scenarios is that you won. You don't need a win faster option. There's also the chance that you might lose a slug and have it bleedout, thus losing the kill. That's the way it goes when you slug. There's a risk.
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Steadfast is hilarious. That's the most troll perk I've ever seen. Right up there with throwing a pebble at your teammate to get the killer on them. How can they be serious? Please, everyone, run that in my killer lobbies. I've always wanted a 5th perk.
Bring it into my survivor lobbies and I'm leaving you on the hook.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076891#Comment_4076891
yeah, it's so nice and manly. reminds me of were elk.
"Manly" is such an interesting adjective choice for a creaky, croaky sound.
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@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076761#Comment_4076761
Cog nailed it, I think. He and I have bickered back and forth a good deal but it's always been civil and respectful. We don't often agree, but I appreciate that he has been direct and respectful every time. Often enough our voting reflects that. But some of the other… let's call them less tone-minded folks in the forums tend to eat downvotes like calories.
Additionally while I dislike admitting it, many people are seeing recycled posts and sentiments that they have argued and argued and argued, only to reach no result. Eventually it's to be expected some number of those folks will just downvote to say 'I disagree' without offering actual context. As much as that seems unkind and to a degree it is, they are not obligate to explain their vote either.
It's not a perfect system, but it works well enough for the purpose I think.We're not bickering, we're discussing. That's an important distinction in a community that is almost all bickering. I have friends I don't agree with and that's fine. It's just a game. The ability to be civil, rational, and decent is what matters.
And yeah, I'm pretty tired of the same crap over and over again, especially when someone just drops some angry, biased rant that isn't a point for discussion, just a soapbox to stand on and scream at passersby from. Those are worth nothing more than a downvote's worth of time.
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So they were playing meta, and you were playing meta, and you lost? Kinda telling on yourself but ok.
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Yeah I do wish you could adjust saturation. Half the time I can't see other survivors auras when i play surv. I'm wildly spinning my camera every time to try to locate the down.
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@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076756#Comment_4076756
That's fair, and I'm happy to agree to disagree. Though I can answer one of your questions:
"If it's not about ego-feeding and winning at all costs, why would you do something you know quite well is hated? Every match I have against these people the chat is full of vitriol towards them. They know perfectly well how it makes others react."
The answer is easy: Total disregard. The bulk of players aren't on the forums, nor do they care to be. They just want to play. I'm often told some horrendous things in egc even when I'm playing with hook spreading. I'm regularly told to unsub from life, so to speak, regardless of how I play. That's why I didn't hesitate to run my own slugging tests - why should anyone care if it's responded to with vitriol, when most of the killer matchs (anecdotal, as largely my own experience here) end this way? Vitriol either way.
Why not just adopt the standard that is less stressful and more fun, if people are going to be toxic no matter what you do?
Again I have no doubt for some this is ego based, but I don't think even the majority of them fall into that camp. It's just easier to disregard it all and play in a fashion that is most fun. If the most fun means slugging, they'll do that. Tunnelling, they'll do that. I did find it refreshing in my slug trials that I didn't have alot of things to worry about. Flashlights, dead hard, etc etc etc.
It's not against the rules and they'll be flamed either way, so why not do it, you know?Why not just adopt the standard that is less stressful and more fun, if people are going to be toxic no matter what you do?
I see this mentality a lot and I personally don't understand it. It's just very teenage to me. Mad at the world because some people are mean. I can go ten killer matches of loses with tbagging at the gates and "ez baby killer" but if match eleven is a sudden snowball and people start throwing, no matter how crappy those last 40 survivirs were, I'm still going to feel bad and give someone hatch. Survivors aren't a hive mind.
I can never take chat salt that seriously either, and i also dole it out. It's all funny to me. And I get about as much good as bad. People just really cling to that bad stuff. I also don't understand why people don't just close it if it changes them.
There's also a tendency of PC players to forget that at least half, if not much more, of the playerbase can't see the chat, so quite a huge amount of people only have secondhand exposure from screenshots and videos, so they're not affected by that aspect.
The forum is not my standard for interacrion in this game. There's no one here. The people I see running slugging builds are often high-hour, and soften streamers. I doubt these people have zero interaction with the community at large. Steam forums, Reddit, YT, Twitch. Only baby players who haven't made contact with that side of the game's world have an excuse for not knowing how hated things are. Even these slugging builds are mostly originating from videos.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076742#Comment_4076742
what's wrong with it? Haven't seen any issues with the audio yet
There's nothing "wrong" I guess, the unique audio for the head is just a terrible sound.
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Damn your still at the GameCube version respect
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I've never seen anything like a shadow ban, and there have been people with consistently unpopular takes to an extreme degree, yet they've still been very much present and visible. The only thing that upvotes and downvotes seem to actually do is that, if you're the OP of a thread and it hits -5 in votes, it will stop bumping. For example, the "slugging meta" post is currently no longer bumping (survivor-focused post btw) because it's hit that threshold.
Also, what gets upvoted and what gets downvoted isn't so simple. First, the climate around what you're discussing matters. Pro-Ghoul post? Yeah, it's getting downvoted cause he's hated. Pro-Dredge post? Would be fine. The heat around FT largely grew because it was obvious it was going to get nerfed because of the uproar, so the tensions leading up to that were high.
Second, and this is not so much towards you specifically, but tone and word choice is the biggest thing that tends to sway votes from what I've observed. You can see two people say the exact same thing on the same thread but in different ways and get different vote ratios.
Which also leads to my last point—it's also a popularity contest. People know one another. They like and dislike one another. Sometimes the post itself doesn't matter much. I can promise you if two people are fighting and one is generally disliked, the votes become nothing of value. People aren't even reading the argument. They're voting for their favorite.
Think about what you're saying. "My anti tunnel idea got upvotes; my other anti-tunnel idea got downvotes." The fact that they're kinda about the same thing should show it's not a black and white issue.
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@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076746#Comment_4076746
Running my tests on this (which we discussed on that thread a while back) I didn't actually get less bp, not by much. Additionally I'd point out that once a killer gets all their killers to P3, BP becomes an invalid means to motivate someone with an intended playstyle. I have zero doubt for some of these killers it's about ego, but I think it's also more complex than to umbrella all of them in such a fashion.
The only solution here that I can see would be for the dev's to implement powerful anti-slug mechanics. The benefits for slugging are just too large. Having run the slugging rounds I did trying to understand I found out too quickly that it's just easier and more enjoyable in gameplay to slug. Yes BP is slightly lower, but I encountered no other issues. Granted I have since gone back to normal 4 hook play, I do understand the position better now.
It's not a strawman to observe the benefits of the tactic, and saying it is 'not intended' is not valid either - if it wasn't intended it would be fixed. The fact that it remains after years means it's effectively intended. I think what we are seeing is a slow shift in the meta which is potentially unhealthy. All ideas I presented to correct it were met with consternation, but that does not mean there are not better ideas out there that could remedy this.Though I'd disagree about the P3 thing—people still want add-ons, and many want p100s—I'd guess many people don't care about BP. I don't go into matches intending to tunnel or slug people, but I also don't care about points. I'd rather win and have a low score than lose and have a high score, and that's coming from a not terribly competitive person. The number on the scoreboard is just mostly useless to me, especially as killer, when I'm the only one in my group and can't really underperform if I won, compared to survivor, where I'm comparing myself a little more to the other numbers. But I'd still rather escape with a low number than die with a high one.
If it's not about ego-feeding and winning at all costs, why would you do something you know quite well is hated? Every match I have against these people the chat is full of vitriol towards them. They know perfectly well how it makes others react.
The amount of BP varies based on how much happens in the match. If you 4man slug at game start 1 minute in you're going to do less in points than if they keep getting up and getting hit again.
if it wasn't intended it would be fixed
I still don't agree with this. I think it's intended in the sense that you can down multiple people in certain situations. I've done my fair share of desperate end game slugging when everyone is injured and out of position. But I don't think they ever intended for the game to be played this way specifically. It's just not a big enough problem to fix, and the videos with titles like "Why I'm quitting killer forever" and "dbd is dead after new patch" would flood back out into the world from the CC cesspool just like they did with the anti-tunnel ptb. Which, incidentally, included anti-slug. Anti-slug is also present in 2v8. They understand it's an issue, but they won't have the backbone to fix it until it hits an extreme level of problematic.
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@KingKongBubba said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076562#Comment_4076562
You can write a whole essay when I only have to write to you this game has MMR and everything you just wrote is meaningless.
A hidden MMR system is worthless to talk about. Convince me that the matchmaking in this game is anything but speed-based.
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@JesterVittorio said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076687#Comment_4076687
Im pretty certain when they designed the game they never inteneded for killers to just leave survivors on the floor for 4 minutes. Slugging to secure a hook from a team of flashlight survivors or sabo squad? Kosher slug as you need to, secure that hook. But ignoring hooks entirely is not what I imagine the devs had planned when they programmed them into the game. And you actually get less points than if you were to hook so its not about gaining bp. This meta rewards some of the fewest bp ive seen killers get in a match. How is 11k-13k at the end of a match worth the queue time? 4 minutes of the match at that point at not even spent playing but waiting. Do you really think the devs intended for this?
People like this don't care about points. They care only about ego.
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@TamaraLatte said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076742#Comment_4076742
Oh no. I've never in my life felt physically sick as a result of audio before. Guess I'll be skipping those matches moving forward.
I genuinely thought it was a bug or something. Who on earth thought that was a good idea?
I guess it sounds like whatever the thing from the IP it's from sounds like. It's pretty awful, like a dying frog. I've also had the bad luck of going against a Nurse about once every ten 1v4 matches lately and they're all wearing that damn head. Like it's not bad enough to go against slugging Nurses but they have to sound like that too. It's already feeling like troll cosmetic.
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Meanwhile I'm on 60 with quality set to low having a PS2 experience.
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It's the new Rift skin, yeah, specifically the head. You're not the first person I've heard say it's bothered them. The skin is cool but listening to that sound is not my favorite either.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076712#Comment_4076712
lol it wasn't but ok a baby dwight can pre drop shift w since it's a high level blight who's targeting that specific dwight for some reason he's probably going to camp him to death too if he's that fixated on it and his team should just slam gens in the meantime
Yeah this will totally work against a skilled S tier player. Wow, you did it, you defated momo with predrop and hold w and no DS!
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076609#Comment_4076609
Yeah, 100%. When people started to explain that the reason for the slugging was because of FT, I pushed back only because the “reason” for slugging is always changing. It was never about denying 1 perk, it’s about denying as many perks as possible, as many people who advocate for slugging explain. FT happens to be another perk that could be rendered useless by slugging, but it was absolutely not the cause of it. And as I said already, the fact that it is even possible to deny so many perks from ever even activating, whose only counter to it involve perks with cool downs and restrictions, compared to the actual act which requires none of those things, should not be possible. And while I don’t want to face it anymore, there’s a glimmer of hope that hey, if it starts to become an issue then we know changes will come along so, maybe a very distance twinkle of light at the end of that very dark and long tunnel.
It's beyond denying perks, it's denying regular gameplay. Many of the perks being mentioned are such non issues too. Like Kindred? Really? What a tremendous threat. Even if survivors were made perkless there'd be a new excuse. People just want to dominate easily with no resistance. Why, I'll never know, because that's pretty hollow for me personally. I don't feel good about 4ks at 5 gens and I don't know many others who do either. I'd like a proper and engaging match.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076702#Comment_4076702
they're supposed to waste time to give the team enough time to do the gens what did you think pallet density was for?
no i don't record dbd videos so no
I'm again asking you how a baby survivor is supposed to waste substantial time against a high-hour Blight, and also shouldn't have access to DS.
You mean the pallet density that was whined about and heavily nerfed.
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@Slurp_Ramen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076686#Comment_4076686
Because survivors these days just farm their teammates and don’t take chases.
A hook is the safest place for a tunnel victim to be, if only survivors would actually use the 70 timers to do gens instead of rescuing 15 seconds into the hook.
So yeah if someone gets tunneled out at 5 gens that’s 100% on the survivors. Because there’s no world you don’t get at least 1-2 gens if you’d just leave people on hook for a bit, and you’re actually splitting up instead of being all in the same area.
This requires people to know what they're doing. If it's soloq, "the survivors" are four individual players with different skill abilities, not some hive mind, and soloq matchmaking is completely random. Just yesterday I had a clueless teammate unhook me in a tunneling killers face who counted to 15 and bodyblocked me in a dead zone. There's nothing I can do about that. There's no method of communication between soloqers, and no way to stop them from unhooking you. It's not "survivors these days" it's that there's a bunch of clueless new people constantly flowing into a game that teaches them nothing and pairs them with killers who can easily cheese their way to victory.
Having 1 gen done at a 3v1 isn't exactly a stellar standard either.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076686#Comment_4076686
so a 200 hour survivor doesn't underatand what rushing gens is what a god pallet is and doesn't understand how to use them effectively compared to an 8k survivor also their teammates aren't good if they aren't focusing on gens
they are messing up massively since they don't understand looping or even pre dropping since A tiers can also be high mobiliy too its a skill issue on the survivors part since the teammates can be on gens rather than do literally anything else and with pallet density adding a ton of pallets they have an abundant amount of them to use not to mention windows
OK not at all what I said, but let's go with it. You, of course, have a bunch of footage of you successfully looping a high-hour tunneling A or S tier killer (without DS, because it "should be removed") while your team finished gens and won the game? You wouldn't be asking people to do something you can't do yourself, right?
And you're saying a 200 hour survivor doesn't understand things correctly? Yeah, true. So what are they supposed to do against the high-hour tunneling killer? And how is it their fault if they get put with such a person?
And Windows is fine but DS isn't?
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076681#Comment_4076681
first 3v1's aren't easy 2 if a survivor is put in a 3v1 situation they messed up massively or wasn't focusing gens
Explain to me how survivor A "messed up terribly" if 200 hour baby soloq teammate B is insta-tunneled by an 8k hour high-mobility killer a minute into the match? It's not hard at all to create a 3v1 in a game with awful matchmaking. It's not even uncommon to 4k at 5 gens.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076668#Comment_4076668
gen regression exists to slow the game in order for the killer to kill since pallets weapon wipe and sprint burst on hit exist
DS exists to slow down a tunnel in order for survivors to survive since easy 3v1 wins exist.
Would you like to keep going?
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The value of the tonics for killer is more to keep them out of survivors' hands. Taking a green one off the board is big.
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@terumisan said:
ds should be removed since killing is a killers objective
Antigen shoud be removed since gens are a survivors obejective.
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Going next has become so common in my matches I've kinda just accepted it. There's little else I can do. I can't have a single killer session without giving people hatch because of throwing. I would much rather they DC. Bots will at least be useful but go-nexters ruin a match. My other matches are against sweaty SWFs that stomp me. So I'm either feeling bad for soloqers and giving mercy or I'm getting thrashed by psychosquads. My survivor matches have had an uptick in killer DCs too, when I can land a decent set of teammates. I had 4 killers DC in just in one session recently. I blame the matchmaking for much of the frustration. They put literally anyone with anyone.
The bugs right now are really crazy. Idk how thy allow it to go live as a total mess.
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@hermitkermit said:
I’ve said something similar on another post; that while I don’t support this kind of playstyle because I don’t think it should be possible to be able to disable dozens of perks from ever even activating, if it ends up getting enough attention then maybe it will be just what is needed for changes to be made.
If BHVR doesn’t see it as a problem then there won’t be a solution, so until it reaches a “problem” status, it’s best to just move on to the next match. If it really does end up becoming the new meta, and then possible a probe, there will more than likely be base-kit anti-slugging feature implemented in the same way they had to do for 2v8.
As much as I detest full team slugging I'm reaching the same mindset. It's already happening to me at least once every time I play survivor, by killers running Infectious and Coulrophobia. It's almost always p100 killers (often Unknowns) on Twitch too. At this point I can only hope it gets so bad they finally do something about it.
Last month's excuse was FT but nothing's changed. Now it's apparently the fact that survivors have perks at all.
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10 is a bit much but it should be longer. It's useless against ranged or mobility killers as is.
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Clown would be the easiest to implement. Henry would definitely need either a speed buff or an Undergate cooldown buff, or both. I cannot fathom dragging my slow self around those giant maps, especially with on-demand SB in play.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076190#Comment_4076190
Fog vials made it, what, less than 2 weeks? Pallet denstity got a similar treatment.The anti-tunnnel ptb was a few days, not enough time to gather data on so many large changes, many of which could have gone through with adjustments. But they walked it back completely. All of these share the same common thread of hyperbolic complaining on various platforms.
Fog Vials were dead after one week on Live. Mass complaints about a new useable Item were enough to get them killed immediatly (just so that people can go back about complaining that healing speeds are so fast because many Survivors bring Medkits..).
I wrote something similar under a Youtube video today, for me this is a very concerning trend. Four times now (2 times for Anti-Tunnel/Anti-Camp, Fog Vials and Fast Track) things got changed so quickly instead of just waiting a bit. I think all of those things could have been resolved better, Fog Vials with making them consistent on all Maps (and waiting until new toy syndrome is gone) and the other things with meaningful tweaks which keep the ground idea, but more balanced.
And we have to consider that other things move at a snailspace. Like, Blight and Nurse got small Nerfs after YEARS and those dont change much on their strength. Meanwhile, other Killers got Buffs so small that they might not even exist. Like, nobody can tell me that it takes years to figure out that the Detonation Delay from Doctor can be buffed by shaving off 0,05 seconds of it. And on the other hand, when enough people (CCs at the front) complain, then things get changed in kneejerk reactions.
Since this happened 4 times already, I know it will happen again and again. And personally, I am not excited for any positive Survivor-changes anymore, simply because you always have to fear that they get reverted immediatly. Because those Content Creators and their loud followers have had success 4 times, they will do that again and again.
And personally, I am not excited for any positive Survivor-changes anymore, simply because you always have to fear that they get reverted immediatly. Because those Content Creators and their loud followers have had success 4 times, they will do that again and again.
Yeah I'm at the point where I more dread changes than look forward to them, especially if it all ends up like this. FT got the worst case scenario treatment. It's now worse than it was to begin with. If they'd reverted it, now that it was on people's radars, it's still would have been reasonably popular. But now it's far to likely to be useless unless you're the designated unhooker in a SWF, so it's even more dumpstered than it was originally. Thankfully for me I didn't care about this perk, but I'm at the point where I worry anything I like as survivor will be annihilated if the CC gods cast their malevolent gaze upon it. Meanwhile, there isn't a single thing I ever worry about as killer.
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Usually I'll suffer through 2v8 because of how wonky 1v4 matchmaking gets during it, but with the crappy BP incentive this time around I haven't been bothering unless friends want to play it.
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I can't say I really do this for no good reason. Really only unless everyone is throwing except one person, then I'll just ignore them and let them have hatch. But I've had a few killers who just completely swerve every time they see me and I've always assumed it's because I'm playing their main/a survivor they like, or because my cosmetics tend to be pretty ostentatious and they approve.
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Yeah, making it so you can uncage from multiple angles would fix this easily. I don't get why they haven't done it.
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@jesterkind said:
I don't think there's much of a double standard here, BHVR were pretty plainly speaking about Fast Track specifically and not making an overall point about perk design.
Their argument in that quote isn't "survivors shouldn't get benefits for their opponent progressing the objective", it's that "a passive activation condition was too strong for permanent gen progress". Personally I never really saw an issue with Fast Track at all, but that isn't really what's being evaluated here, just thought I'd mention it.
Your list of killer perks that activate on generator progress is definitely the start of a good comparison, but you also have to include the opposing side.
Sure, BHVR made the judgement call that the killer getting a hook wasn't an appropriate activation condition for Fast Track, but they've yet to make that decision for perks like Kindred, Desperate Measures, Do No Harm, Low Profile, and Self Preservation. These are just the perks that activate based on other people being hooked with no other action required on your part, to be clear, zooming out to just being based around the opponent's objective progression gives far more examples.Rather than it being fine when a perk is unpopular, I think the constructive takeaway from this regarding BHVR's mindset is that activating upon your teammates being hooked is seen as a variable that must inform other parts of the perk, and permanent objective progress was deemed to be too far over the line relative to the accessibility of that activation condition.
EG, the other perks are fine because they provide bonuses that aren't generator progress, meaning their contribution towards winning the game is more indirect and more up to skill/gameplay.Whether you agree with that or not, it's how I interpret BHVR's comments here.
I'm using killer examples because this outcry was about a survivor perk, but yeah, those perks as well. And if the issue is being rewarded for your opponenent's successes—or just normal actions—then we need to look at 2/3 of this game's perks.
If the problem was that you could sit on a gen while your team traded hooks and instafinish halfway through, solely from the killer doing their objective, that's what the perk already did for years. If the problem was the permanent progress, it still has that. If the problem was stacking, they should have made it so the tokens only go to one randomly-chosen user. They should have just reverted it really, and not doing so just feels stubborn. To top it off, Mandy called this a side grade. It's not. It's a massive nerf. Not just to the last iteration, but to the one before.
And all of this happened over the course of a couple weeks. It used to take long (often excessively so) periods for things like this to happen. DH, MfT, stacking Vigil, Blight's recent nerfs. These had long runs. But there's been a trend in the last year or so of things getting instanuked, and the increasing loudness of CCs seems to be the sole reason. Every time they get mad about something en masse, you'll see people on social media parroting their exact words. The amplification of a handful of people's views has become insanely influential, and it seems like BHVR will decimate anything that gets any of that negative traction. Fog vials made it, what, less than 2 weeks? Pallet denstity got a similar treatment.The anti-tunnnel ptb was a few days, not enough time to gather data on so many large changes, many of which could have gone through with adjustments. But they walked it back completely. All of these share the same common thread of hyperbolic complaining on various platforms.
So my issue isn't that it happened, it's the real reasons it happened.
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@AGM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075975#Comment_4075975
Fire Up doesn't need any extra counterplay due to the opportunity cost of bringing the perk. It was pretty bad on its own pre 9.6.0 but now it's even worse because of diminishing returns if you try to stack it with something else.
If a killer has Coup stacks, they can't lunge without wasting a stack. Force them to lunge as best you can to waste their stacks.
This ain't rocket science. You're obviously just being obtuse to try to fit your black and white thinking onto nuanced situations.
You're acting like FT wasn't situational though. It's not like someone gets hooked and a key gen just magically gained the tokens. You needed a skill check to appear, you needed to hit a great, you needed to have a chance to put them on a gen before they capped, and you had to put them on a gen worth using them on. Every single match I tried this perk in I had tokens leftover. It wasn't constant value.
But you're also being intentionally obtuse. The point is Coup and Fire Up get their value from survivors completing gens. There's no way to counter that accumulation. And just like a killer might miss their Coup lunge, a survivor might miss their great skill check.
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I hate them too. I feel like if I look at them too long I'll get a migraine so I'm purposely avoiding them. Talk about a change no one asked for or needed.
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@VilerOfCool said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075741#Comment_4075741
I can't find that original quote but… I AM TOTALLY NOT BHVR ALT TRUST.
In all actually, HUUHH?H????? Why would I be an alt?I didn't think you were lol
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It's kinda hard to gage based on queues. During 2v8, I end up playing a whole ton of survivor in that mode. Not because I want to, but because the queue times and matchmaking in 1v4 are a mess. I'm sure there are others like me, who don't actually want to play 2v8 but just resign themsleves to it.
I'm on the game right now. There's a 2.5 bonus for 2v8 killer and a 1.75 for 1v4 killer. 1v4 killer is 5min wait. In both modes, there aren't enough people who want to play survivor just in general.
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@SoGo said:
People complaining about perks "rewarding losing" and "supporting selfish gameplay" should get their heads out of the clouds.
So what if you gain a small benefit to offset the fact you are losing hard? If you are losing that hard, then not even Rancor is saving you. If everyone goes down 5 seconds into a chase, not even Fast Track can save you.
Fast Track was strong. Sure. But the theme was never the issue because this perk was like this for years. The BNP effect was the issue.
Yeah that last part is my point. It was like this for years. It's always "punished killers for spreading hooks". No one had anything to say then, and the permanent part is the part they kept, and now seems like everyone is fine with that aspect because the perk sucks now. Which goes back to the question: does fairness only matter if the perk isn't trash?
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@lospolloshermanos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075538#Comment_4075538
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075540#Comment_4075540
It's interesting how he didn't respond to your comments. I believe VilerOfCool is BhVR's alt account.
I didn’t expect him to. He never responds to me. But I've also been pretty critical of some internal forum structural elements in the past.