arslaN
arslaN
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@BBQnDemogorgon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/831771#Comment_831771
Problem is as killer in many cases there is no way to outplay the survivor. If someone gets to a god window there is no mind game its loop until entity block or leave and hope other survivors dont use the window.
I'd say spirit and nurse are equivalent to survivors that use the i'm untouchable spots.
A secondary objective, map reworks and buffs to weaker killers would fix the issues. Making chases shorter would just make playing survivor very unfun.
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If every chase was supposed to last like 30 seconds, no one would play survivor. Chases are the most enjoyable (and probably the only enjoyable) part of the game.
If you keep outplaying the killer, you should deserve to have long chases and if you outplay survivors as killer you should be able to end chases quickly.
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Is there a dev update coming today?
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
Kill all survivors in a single match. I was getting salty dc's when they realized I had an ebony mori.
You didn't have to mori them to complete that challenge as far as I remember.
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/831556#Comment_831556
Then why there are so many bad survivors? If these survivors can asks devs for nerf, saying she has no counterplay even they are doing the wrong thing, devs will be forced to listen to them.
I'm actually afraid of what they're gonna do to her. They tend to do things too far. If you asks for 1 nerf, they will give you 10, like nurse and legion
Because the ranking system is garbage and you can get to rank 1 as survivor even if you are a potato survivor. All you have to do is play enough that season. Still, I don't really see many people trying to loop spirit or nurse these days.
Many people don't really want a nerf except some addons , they want some changes or reworks to make her more enjoyable to go against. Base nurse was more powerful than spirit but most people didn't mind going against her. It's not really about how powerful spirit is.
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The punishments have to start small since this game has tons of bugs, teammates can bodyblock you in corners, you can get stuck in places and you have to dc to get out etc.
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I loved playing basekit nurse before but now I really have no desire to play her anymore. Constantly waiting for your power is annoying.
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If you are trying to loop nurse or spirit, you are bad anyways. Good survivors don't do this.
Also, this isn't why people hate spirit.
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Open 5 chests in one match , get 3 flashlight saves and escape via the hatch with a key and all items must be found from the chests.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/829574#Comment_829574
We can, but again, the stats aren't everything. They might show us where to look, they don't show us what specifically is wrong.
To give an example, say you're trying to sell your house and you get it appraised. They tell you it's not worth a lot. Do you just go in and start fixing stuff and redecorating hoping that the value goes up, or do you figure out why it's not worth much and try to make that specific thing better?
Yeah, I understand that. I'm just asking because many people here don't believe these stats because they think dc's are included in them.
Also, are you guys going to release some stats any time soon like you did before?
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@Peanits said:
Those stats did not consider rank. If you took a look at the Nurse before at all ranks, she was the weakest killer by a large margin- something I think we can all agree was not the case. Meanwhile, if you were to check her stats in red ranks on PC, you'd see that she would average more than three kills per match. This is why we don't balance based on data alone, and also why we urge you not to draw conclusions from those stats.
Do you guys exclude matches that have any dc's in them when calculating the stats along with suicides on hook (if you can detect them)?
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@Haku said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/829076#Comment_829076
Well that is quite .... incomplete
Survivors dc because:
1/ They get downed first and rage quit in anger
2/ They get camped over and over again
3/ They see mori in the starting screen and they get camped again for the easy kill
4/ They get insta hatchet/ Spirit-ualized
The first two is pretty much being salty in general.
The last two is basically not enjoying going against something.
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My favourite is when you decide to remove ds for one match and then you get tunneled and camped.
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@Dragonu said:
Yep.
I pretty much followed a tutorial from youtube and it works for me ever since. I can try sending my settings file when I get home, if it still doesn't work after that then I have no idea.
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@ausanimal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/829183#Comment_829183
would you put him on the same level as nurse pre nerf nurse or spirit, he is better but still not a major challenge.
I'd say a really good freddy can be a major challenge. Also, like I said, most people only complained about nurse's addons but BHVR decided to nerf the basekit as well.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/829126#Comment_829126
One thing I started doing for the luls is typing in (insert killer name here) is OP in a good search. You can find complaints about EVERY killer, and reading ppl complaining about Bubba being too OP is funny.
I think you can find those posts about pretty much everything. I've seen people saying great skill checks are op, unbreakable is op, camaraderie is op, fixated is op, old freddy was op etc.
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@ausanimal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/829126#Comment_829126
more survivors dc then killers do i have seen survivors dc because they got hit first.
Buff one off the other killers that people don't have a problem with and see how long that last before survivors start to dc and want a nerf, lets say hag up her range bit time so she can teleport a lot further then she can now with out any add ons and her mark is a lot hard to spot and you have to remove it not just crouch past it, how long before survivors will want that nerfed because it is a challenge to face her. That's why they don't complain about them because they are weak and easy to go against and not a challenge.
Freddy went from being one of the weakest killers to one of the top killers. I don't see many people complaining or dcing against him.
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@ausanimal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/829098#Comment_829098
That there is the problem it's not if its a killer, perk or addon it's that people are dc to get a nerf which might not be needed in the first place, just because they want the game to be more easy for them and able to do what they like. As much as survivors complain about killers the first rule off this game is there would be no game if people don't play killer, the way it is going people are going to stop playing killer because every killer is going to get nerfed.
There will be no game if people don't play survivor as well.
Why are you guys assuming that every killer will be nerfed in the first place? People don't really have much problems with other killers. Nurse was more powerful than spirit but people still complained about spirit a lot more because people hate going against her. Nobody wants killers to be trash.
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@ausanimal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/829076#Comment_829076
The question the OP is asking and i have a feeling it has something to do with it is if all the dc are forcing the devs to nerf killers, if it's the case what if all killers started to dc when they went up against a swf group or a perk we didn't like going up against would the devs do the same and adjust the perk or how swf work?
I think they would. If lot's of people dc against something there is probably something wrong with it in the first place.
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@Irisora said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/829015#Comment_829015
Thats the problem when they come up with "balance" updates.. they end nerfing killers for rank 15+ survivors, and don't take into account red ranks. They always do that.. and thats why i personally don't like every "balance" update they announce because it's never a slight change, it's always the same story that repeats.
Hopefully they will release some red ranks only stats. Changes should be made according to those.
If spirit is still overperforming in red rank only stats, I can already see people still denying it and I find that quite funny tbh.
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I don't remember people dcing against nurse that much unless they were using omegablink or additional blinks.
Survivors dc for 2 reasons:
1- they are super salty
2- they don't enjoy going against something and they dc
The second reason is why a lot of people dc against spirit. Majority of people dislike going against her. That's not to say dcing is a good thing but it's why people do it.
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Those stats are all ranks overall.
Currently, spirit has 3 kills or possibly even more per game on average according to the devs. I don't know which ranks are these stats from though.
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If we balance the game for 1v4 then solos will be even more miserable. If they actually buff solos to swf levels then sure, why not?
Chases are the most fun part of the game. If they are super short, where is the fun in that?
As a survivor, if you keep outplaying the killer then you should deserve to have very long chases. If you outplay the survivors as killers then you should be able to end chases quickly. That's how I see it.
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Did you type -fullscreen in the launch options and did you make the settings file read only?
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I'm sure they have some plans for other killers as well. Do you guys realize how much pressure they have right now with all these spirit complaints?
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@bubbascal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/821047#Comment_821047
You are completely and totally dishonest. NOW you're being the "reasonable" one after being a douche in other replies. And now you're adding all of these reasonable things you should have said earlier to make a word wall that is painful to read.
I'm just gonna skip half of your BS and aim for the big bits.
"I said decisions should be made off of her data. How and why are you assuming that survivor and killer rank has nothing to do with that? Spirit's pick rate should 100% be considered along with the rest of the data. You just assumed all of this information in an attempt to devalue my statement."
WIN-RATE data, moron. Not "data". Survivor and killer rank have nothing to do with win-rate data specifically, don't pull this BS with me.
And you didn't clarify as such, resulting in this. Your statement does not have to be devalued, it does that all on it's own. lmao
"just because Spirit's issues stem from lack of counterplay existing."
This is wrong. I've mentioned multiple weaknesses in this topic. You laughed at them, so I won't bother linking them.
"Not sure what you are trying to say in the next paragraph, if you want to try to reword that."
Before I respond to this... explain what the hell you're addressing. Instead of numbering your statements, quote what you're responding to. It's easier that way.
" I absolutely do not believe that all killers should have the exact same weaknesses. I do believe that all of their weaknesses should be similar in the amount of effort it takes to counter/capitalize on the weaknesses."
So, nothing different, then?
The "amount of effort" required to counter most Killer's powers is low to very low, especially once you know what you're doing. Your goal is to make Spirit low mid-tier to low tier if you want to make the "amount of effort" the same.
"And currently, it is extremely more difficult to counter Spirit than the majority of other killers."
Because you refuse to run Iron Will or use your brain when dealing with Spirit. Or actually ask around for advice. But something tells me that, even if red rank Survivors and Spirit mains spelt out how to beat her, you'd just throw their advice out the window and go "Nope, Spirit is just OP".
Someone else said something useful: Do things that counter multiple options that Spirit has instead of narrowing yourself to a two choice mindset. Maybe you should follow that example.
"because its asymmetrical."
So, you're pretending genrush doesn't exist then? Because in order you to water down why the Survivors are the power role into "JUST ASYMMETRICAL", you have to deny why people actually don't play Killer and say the role is "just more stressful" without acknowledging why that's truly the case.
"and it you don't want to play intensely, either play survivor, or play a different game"
Thanks for confirming your opinion should be discarded. Because you just revealed that you don't give a ######### about Killers.
"Your role is hard to play?! -pops a gen- Whatever! The role is just stressful! -pops another gen- There's no issues with it whatsoever! -pops a gen- If you don't want to get
genrushed and teabagged because you didn't play Spiritoutplayed, you should join the Survivors and their long queue times because they refuse to make the game fun for Killers -pops another gen- or just go play Civ! -pops two gens, gates are open, all Survivors escape-"You're the reason Survivor times are so long. Because Killer stress is because it's "just assymetrical" and they should basically just give up if they don't like the role. They either join Survivors because of uncompromising trash like you, @Venom368 , or they leave the game and the game dies some more. As you suggested.
######### off, @Venom368
Skipping 5 and 6.
"I think you are wrong in your last statement. That's the bully and winner mentality. Both sides should be having fun, thats where the balance comes in. If neither side is having fun, why would anybody play the game at all? Either change something up or play a different game if you aren't having fun. If you are playing tryhard prayer beads Spirit with the mentality of 'survivors need to be punished', i mean... that fits in with the lore of the game and all... but thats the wrong mentality to play games with in general. I just want everbody to have fun and feel like things are fair on both sides. (The latter being much more difficult to achieve than the prior)"
I've already seen why you're a dumbass, Venom, so I don't give a damn if you think I'm wrong.
I also don't know what the ######### you're talking about by "bully and winner" but just know that Survivors are both bullies and winners because of how unironically unbalanced (in ways you don't care about) this game is that Spirit is required to deal with Survivors strategies that HAVE NO COUNTERPLAY.
Fun does not equate to balance. Making the Killer DC is fun. Looping the Killer with them being unable to counterplay for 5 gens is fun. Teabagging at the exit gate is fun. Making the Killer depip is fun. Harassing the Killer all game is fun. It definitely doesn't mean balance.
Your definition is balance cannot be trusted to begin with too, as you definitely don't think Killers don't have these major issues. AND IF YOU DO, YOU DIDN'T SAY SO.
We are also already seeing why people don't play Killer, because it's not fun, but you don't care. Only one side matters to you. And if Killers matter to you, it's a lie.
You also definitely don't believe in things being fair on both sides, don't try and be a innocent angel now. If you did, you'd acknowledge the major issues Killers face and wouldn't have started a fight over something you disagreed with. AND THE FACT THAT THERE IS NO COUNTERPLAY TO WHAT ELITE SURVIVORS DO.
KILLERS DO NOT FIND IT FUN TO BE SWEATY THE WHOLE GAME OVER BASIC BUT OVERPOWERED SURVIVOR TACTICS 24/7. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?
Tone down the insults and the condescending attitude if you actually want to be taken seriously dude.
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@Endstille said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827482#Comment_827482
Instead of laughing and throwing tantrums like a kid, you should invest some time to research on how to play against spirit, fyi i present to you dbd latest tournaments hosted by marth, lots of spirit games with no 4ks iirc. You should check it out and git gud. I am just annoyed by the amount of baddies that demand nerfs cause they are bad at the game.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827702#Comment_827702
Even @arslaN who disagrees with me on this, says he dominated many spirits in 4man swf. I wonder why? No counterplay would mean there is nothing survivors can do so every spirit game should result in a 4k. Yet it does not, seems to me you are wrong and those yt killer mains.
No wonder there is no counterplay for you when the only thing you can come up with is "standing still". You must be quite the experienced survivor in order to say something like this. ?
Yeah, we dominated many spirits in a 4 man swf with the power of genrushing. I mean, they still ended chases pretty quickly but they just can't keep up with the insane gen speeds. That's a problem of swf though and if we balance killers towards that then solos will be screwed badly.
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@HamdaN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827575#Comment_827575
oh i get told to run urban all the time its hilarious
Just run iron will, spine chill, urban evasion and quick and quiet to counter spirit 4Head
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You are just refusing to adapt!!! Stop crying you entitled survivor main!!!
I'm writing this before somebody else does.
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This is what they mean by overperforming. If you are fine with her getting 3kills on average (basically a 75% kill rate), I don't know what to tell you.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827371#Comment_827371
You do, actually, Spine Chill tells you. Also, with the new sound update, her phasing overrides the chase music. It is very noticeable.
She does need to make reads, they may not be Nurse levels of reads, but she does need to. You have to force her though, by playing unpredictably and just weirdly sometimes.
I do not have any videos, I play on Xbox, so it is somewhat difficult but I'll work on it!
I think that's a bug and not an intentional change
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I'd put DS at S tier and adrenaline, borrowed time and iron will at A tier. Would also make distortion and quick&quiet B tier.
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@DarKStaR350z said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/826124#Comment_826124
It’s quite funny reading they balance around 2 die 2 escape when’s killers can barely pip with all 4 kills.
Well, that's a problem with the horrible ranking system since they always said that they were trying to balance around 2 kills and 2 escapes.
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No, it's not a common thought process. If they are healing right under the hook they are already risking going down again since the killer can come back again.
If I see the last hooked survivor soon after they are unhooked I hit them but don't pick them up because of ds, that's the only reason.
If they unhook right in front of my face I will chase the unhooker because I feel bad for the person on the hook (unless its swf obviously).
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Most of the time, yes.
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This is what the majority of people want anyways and these won't make her weak at all. It would actually raise her skill cap too which would be a really good thing. Those "make her leave scratch marks" types of suggestions would make her too weak.
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@Apackawolves said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/826108#Comment_826108
Umm yeah let’s wait until she’s broken to say anything. And then they won’t touch her again for another two years. Great idea, bozo.
I talked to the devs and they heard your cries. They won't be changing her because you spent 15 millions bloodpoints on her!!! You just saved her btw
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@HuntressIsMyFavXD said:
Dead hard needs a major fix, there have been times where i will dead hard, it will say Exhausted: Dead Hard but i get smacked while dashing WHY OH WHY ISNT IT FIXED
I'm actually about to stop using dead hard because it is actually starting to annoy me so badly. Peanits said that they are looking into it though so hopefully it will be fixed soon.
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I think peanits also said that they are going to talk about her in the next developer update so hopefully we will have more information then.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825933#Comment_825933
Where did the devs say that they have already made up their minds about what changes the Spirit needs? Where are you getting this information?
Just because players aren't designers and give opinions and suggestions doesn't mean the devs are going to take them for granted either. That's the whole point of the forums.
I haven't even seen a dev actually even say they are looking at Spirit, only thing I've seen is Peanits agreeing that standing on the other side of the pallet is not a skill. That's about it.
I think the only Spirit thread that matters is the one where people are civil and respectful to each other, and can have a healthy discussion. Not one where there is more bickering or ones where they are trying to silence people.
They confirmed that she is getting some changes but they haven't said anything more about it.
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That's a nice suggestion but I think keys have to allow 4 survivors to escape in some way because there is an achievement for that and devs can't change them as far as I know.
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@Apackawolves said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825759#Comment_825759
Stop crying? Let me get straight. If you dump 15 million bloodpoints into a killer and the devs decide to come along and break that killer because they’re “over performing”, you should just keep your mouth shut? Yeah okay. Survivor logic at its finest.
Umm yes, you should honestly. Nobody cares about your bloodpoints. You don't even know how she is getting changed. It's too early start crying.
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@thesuicidefox said:
IMHO any discussions about Spirit at this point is moot. The devs already stated that she is "over performing" according to their metrics and that she is going to be changed. It doesn't matter if we can prove she is or is not unbalanced, she is getting changed regardless. In fact, I will bet that even if no one ever said anything she would get changed because the devs would still see the stats suggest she needs to be changed. The only difference is the speed at which they push out said changes, which they will probably prioritize higher since so many people complain about her.
I haven't been able to confirm but a friend of mine said they mentioned "serious changes" coming to her on Twitter or something. Not sure how true this wording is, but if true I'm disappointed it has come to this.
The devs need to be more transparent about this. How much is she over performing? Can we see this data too? What potential issues have been identified and what are the goals of said changes? This is the stuff I'd like to know, I'm kind of getting sick of this deal where they completely change a character without telling us anything until the work is done and there is basically no going back and we have no say in the matter. I get the devs generally know better than us when it comes to the health of the game, but you seriously have to be more open about these issues, especially ones as sensitive as Spirit. It makes me want to just give up on the game and move on.
Throw us a bone please devs.
This is what they probably mean by overperforming
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/824868#Comment_824868
Yeah..due to her DC rate..because how can that be true..if other killers have higher kill rates than her..?
Devs said they can filter out dc's but I don't know if they did on these stats. We need some red rank only stats and not all ranks overall.
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If it's actually 3 kills per game on average I don't think it's bs at all.
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Chases can easily last 80 seconds if the killer is bad.
Fixed
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@Rin_is_my_waifu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/824509#Comment_824509
I don't mean the number of people who DC, but the number of survivors who died because their teammate/s DCed or killed themselves on first hook
Maybe they only count the matches that don't have any dc's? I don't know if they can filter out suicides though. I hope they explain how they calculate these stats
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@Karltastisk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/824484#Comment_824484
They also said that freddy has the highest kill rate of all killers currently, but he isn't getting changed anytime soon. And not that he needs it except the oblivious nonsense.
Maybe he has the highest kill rate on all ranks combined? I really wish we had some kill rates on red ranks only.
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@Rin_is_my_waifu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/824484#Comment_824484
Do they include suicides and deaths because of DCs?
They said that they can filter out dc's but I don't know if these include them