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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3257224#Comment_3257224
How would you know? When I play in my swf group, we use all map offerings just so we don't end up on the same map or on lery's, midwitch or RPD.
This includes map offerings for the game, springwood, crow map, goj with exactly the same frequency (and build) as yamaoka, mcmillan, ormond, saloon or autoheaven. So how would you know the reasoning if you happen to get one of the maps you don't like?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3256734#Comment_3256734
The list is very incomplete.
Haddonfield for having ugly 3gen around main and whole middle being really bad (and very quickly deadzone)
Midwitch for it's size, small amount of resources and overall very quick buildup of deadzones.
Lery's for horrible loops that contain very much useless windows (any window that have 2 openings 3m apart from it from both sides is useless and this map has so many of those) everywhere and very loops at all.
Also loops. Stop creating new "no loop" and "trash loop" tiles. You already have a mechanics for deadzones - getting to a loop should contain at least some safety compared to said deadzone. New loops break this rule.
I know because they'll go to that map with 4 green medkits and COH. They'll go to the easiest map possible for the easiest win. It's painfully obvious why they do it. It's because the game is easy when you have infinite heals, multiple safe loops and possibly even a strategy for said map. Even if that isn't solely the intention, which I highly doubt, why those maps? If you don't want to play on boring or bad maps, why choose The Game, Eyrie, Badham, or Garden of Joy? Those maps have very little risk with almost no actual gameplay aside from dropping a safe pallet or running an infinite. They have places where boons are almost impossible to crush because they're so far out of the way with elevation. Spots that the cost of going up there to do that is just a net loss either way since one of the four survivors can just go put it back up while the others do gens.
Maybe you don't do it for that sole intention. But it's honestly hard to not have any sense of self awareness when going into those maps, with enough experience to run them, and be like "OH WE JUST HAPPENED TO CHOOSE THIS MAP SORRY GL NEXT <3". You can always feign deniability. But a majority of survivors know about these maps issues. That's why it's so common to see them send you there.
This isn't like I just happened to get a map I don't personally like. I have had back to back games with offerings to these maps, and it's frustrating. If I'm not playing a good killer I'm just going to get stomped with nothing to do about it. It's annoying that a group can just decide I don't get to have a chance against them because of an offering.
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@Cyber_Atlas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3257104#Comment_3257104
They make slight sense for a killer as they could be the killer "location" from which YOU need to escape. It's a sort of "host" idea. Survivors could still have a way to "setup" but it needs to be balanced. So in order to go to X map you need 2 or more survivors putting the offering or the game will prefer Y from the killer.
Taking away survivors offerings doesn't sound fun to me, as an extreme, because they are a way to take away the frustration of some trials. You suffer 3 matches on RPD and you just want to play somewhere else. It's also good when new maps are added.
That's true. I just very rarely see the map offerings used to get away from bad maps and more to just make the match as easy as possible for them. I think having killer priority would be nice to some degree. It'd give them more control over the match, which they should have. I just wish maps weren't abusable like this.
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@[Deleted User] said:
We love bad map design!
But honestly, most maps could be more balanced for both sides if the safety of loops were adjusted, as well as the placement of breakable walls.
I think the biggest offenders are:
- Garden of Pain (there is an infinite in the main building)
- Haddonfield (there are three infinites on the map and loops are way too safe)
- Eyrie of Cringe (breakable walls are are in cringe places and some loops are a bit too safe)
- Gideon's Meat Plant (breakable walls everywhere and stupidly safe pallets, but also a lack of window vaults)
- Shelter Woods (there is a lack of loops worth using)
- Rotten Fields (there is nothing in the middle of the map)
- Dead Dawg Saloon (breakable walls and an infinite in the main building)
Don't forget Badham too. 4 strong buildings, plus shack, plus the insane pallet spawns between them all.
I just don't understand why so many maps are THIS bad? They really need to do better because nearly half of them are either boring or one sided, most of the time both.
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@malloymk said:
I think Killers should be able to use map offerings, but not survivors.
Some stealth builds are near useless unless you use an indoor map offering.
I honestly don't think anyone should be able to use them. They offer too much of an advantage going into the match. Still, survivors benefit the most. Like Tat said, it'd probably be better if the maps were just adjusted to play better. Until then though, something has to give. I cannot enjoy dbd when a majority of my matches are a group of shitters on the game for the 4th time today.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3249818#Comment_3249818
Did you ever play when Billy had flick? If not it felt gross - as a matter of fact I never used it when I could because it didn't feel right.
In case you do not know : Billy's power has been continually adjusted over the years to be worse by a measure of a few steps each patch. They capped his turn rate so you need the boot addons. They made bumping anything more punishing. They increased the delay after using the saw to sprint and when you could use the hammer. The mere existence of indoor maps is a nerf to 2016-2018 Billy who at the time could zoom from point A to point B on almost any map with nearly no obstruction.
And we have yet to mention the overheat situation and the loss of every meaningful addon.
Unless I missed it : also we have not mentioned that Hook posts are non collision for Leatherface in his saw attack mode. Do you know how dumb that is? I don't know if is still a thing but for a while Billy was stopped from sprinting if his saw hit a hook while it was raised in a sprint. Meanwhile Leatherface cannot hit a hook post. Leatherface would be terrible at camping if he was in danger of his saw hitting the post and sending him into a tantrum - but that's not a thing.
Friendo, watch the video and look how LF has antiloop with those addons - something Billy used to have if you were very skilled (but was taken away unless you use addons).
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3250095#Comment_3250095
"-Their powers in concept are nearly identical. Bubba is the opposite of Billy, trading speed and mobility for destructive power and able to devastate the team at any moment. But Billy doesn't really have anything else going for him, and as I said, he's outdone by basically every other killer with some type of mobility based power."
While I largely agree with what you have to say this is actually not correct. Billy is the fastest killer in a straight line over long distances with no obstructions or ones that can be avoided. Blight has to bounce and his power runs out unless he has a survivor to chain his power activation. When hug tech is removed Blight will also be "slower".
Technically Ring can move faster than Billy in terms of map movement but teleporting long distances is a different idea.
Billy used to be an S tier killer and I feel someone from marketing said hey wait a minute, why would anyone buy Hag when Billy exists? It might seem strange to think but long ago he and Nurse were the S tier killers.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3249803#Comment_3249803
-"Bubba's is purely a chase tool. It can shred pallets and down but that's it, really."
I suggest you watch the video I posted above as well. With the right addons LF has antiloop with his saw. And when you bring Bamboozle it forces a pallet or you go down.
And while the best addons give LF limited mobility he will never move like Blight or Nurse. No one is suggesting otherwise. People like me who used to play Billy all the time realize that Billy is just "meh" by comparison to what he was before. Now he has no strong addons, can be easily looped and his power is rendered almost useless by many maps.
You can be a mediocre looper and give a good Billy a 2 gen run depending on map and killer's loadout. Try the same thing against a just average Pyramid Head and you last half a generator. Killers that have anti loop are just "better" than killers that have mobility and no antiloop.
Also just to be clear : Billy got nerfed according to the devs because low/mid tier players were fanning the chainsaw 99% ready to strike to make rescues impossible. And yet at the same time no adjustment was made to LF who can do the same thing but better as he can hit you twice and render a perk like BT worthless.
I appreciate the way you've laid out a nuance take on everything. You seem to have been around for a long time. I just wanted to say, yes, Billy is better in a straight line with speed but that's only techincally. While he has a faster base travel time, he can get screwed on many maps. His power can't adapt to these sorts of things. A Billy on lerys is just essentially an m1 killer who can maybe instadown if people play really badly.
Blight's mobility is extremely versatile and easy to use. You get a 1.5 second recovery from using it I believe. There are some small variants like using the swing to end the rush, adding a small amount of time to it. Still, Blight receives almost no downside for using his power and gets tons of reward for it.
There will be occasions where you barely miss the distance to bump, but so many maps have things to collide with that it's not super hard to do so. The only harsh part about his mobility would be sliding off of objects, but in a way that's an advantage too as I'm sure all of us are aware.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
Billy got nerfed because of charge speed. As in, revving extremely fast: reducing 2.5 charge time to 1.8 seconds.
Bubba's rev time is 2 seconds base, lower because he needs to get a lot closer.
Billy's chainsaw can be used to break pallets, catch up, mobility, and down.
Bubba's is purely a chase tool. It can shred pallets and down but that's it, really.
You're trying to compare two killers whose powers are radically different except they use a chainsaw.
Yet again, not the point. The point isn't about their base abilities. It's about how in the same patch they nerfed Billy for being able to do the many things Bubba can do now with no punishment. Chainsaw spam, camping, add-ons that make him not have to play by certain rules of his power or make him insanely lethal. It's dumb to nerf Billy so hard for such things but let Bubba do it during the SAME patch.
Along with Billy just having multiple counterplay options already built into his kit, while Bubba is basically don't let him get close enough to chainsaw. Bubba can wreak havoc easily with far less mechanical skill required. Even Blight is part of this problem. Basically being the new Billy. Blight can do even crazier flicks, is far less punishing for mistakes, and has much stronger add-ons that leaves really no reason to play Billy rather than liking the character.
Their powers in concept are nearly identical. Bubba is the opposite of Billy, trading speed and mobility for destructive power and able to devastate the team at any moment. But Billy doesn't really have anything else going for him, and as I said, he's outdone by basically every other killer with some type of mobility based power.
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@neb said:
So we should nerf bubba? lol
I agree with the common consensus that we should limit his ability to camp people to death, but nerf anything else other than that? No, he's fine as is. Go for stuns, it's what I do. Buys a lot of time.
I clarified multiple times that's not the point of this post. Please read it if u want to discuss things.
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@Jallybwan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3249047#Comment_3249047
You'd be surprised. There are a few people in this thread saying it. I think it is a minority view, but I've seen it pop up every time I've brought up adjustable FOV in the past, and I still don't understand why.
no clue it'd make flashlights stronger since u can get better angles. i thought they'd be nuts for that.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3249047#Comment_3249047
They do. They compare us asking for an 1st person fov increase to survivors cheating with stretched res.
considering stretched res literally didnt do anything u couldn't do with the camera before i dont see the problem.
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i have literally never heard anyone say this.
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@Krazzik said:
At top level Bubba is below Billy and is infact in the bottom three killers in the game.
How many people do you encounter that you would consider top level every match? Balancing shouldn't focus on the very top level because top level is just camping people into second stage and securing like 2 kills while all the gens pop. But yes, at his very very top level of play he can outperform Bubba. Doesn't mean that he still isn't hurt by the nerf or outdone in many ways his power functions now. Nor that he can consistently out-do these other killers.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3226798#Comment_3226798
The point is the only didn't want to play the game because they actually had to try. If they don't want to go against players on par with them they shouldn't play the game.
cool so basically u admit that u already knew the answer and had no reason to post this?
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@Superbeasto1974 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3226790#Comment_3226790
Look at you, all salty over something you say doesn't concern you. The OP must've hit some nerve, otherwise there's no reason to speak on it, and certainly no reason to accuse someone of looking for attention. If the Sadako was weak, why dip? Why not just stay in, take her out, and soak up the easy BP?
And who really says "pwned" anymore? 😂
lol. lmao, even.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3226166#Comment_3226166
Read my replies in this post. I would say those builds are probably equal, they went in for a bully squad but they can't just stand around an alch ring blight like they can a wraith. I don't need validation nor do I care about being "bullied". My other replies give thoughts and context.
its just really weird to post a screenshot from this long ago and still talk about it. like this was a completely different era of dbd at this point. yea, ur going to get a bunch of bots who play like this. what else can be said about it? you ran a strong build and they didn't want to play against it. its that simple.
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@Superbeasto1974 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3226166#Comment_3226166
Bored, huh? So bored that all four decided to turn down the easy bloodpoints? Yeah, that checks out.
Why would the OP need validation? He didn't do anything. And who cares if this is from April? It's still a prime example of how an entitled bully squad behaves when they know they're outmatched. Pretty much a safe bet they're still in the game acting like fools.
You wouldn't happen to be one of the players on this squad, would you? 😂
yea you'd love if i were wouldn't u? but no, im just saying these survivors probably weren't a big bad bully squad. and even if they were op is fully equipped to handle them so acting like they got epicly pwned by a perkless sadako and dc'ed is dumb. ur typing this out with a lot of vendetta behind it and its really funny. please keep going.
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This is so long ago why are u even posting it? lmao.
They're probably bored because it was the millionth blight they've seen that day with alch ring and crow (which is super boring, even before when survivors were stronger). It's still super common and basically puts him on easy mode. I'd say what you brought was basically equal to the same thing they did. They didn't have boons or medkits so it's not like it would've been impossible to pressure them. They also didn't bring ds either, so the UB+SG isn't really forced.
but part of me suspects you uploaded it just to get some reactions or validation.
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@Tostapane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3219659#Comment_3219659
2 red addons for making him barely viable... not to mention that you must waste time by positioning portals in order to get said pressure... time that you don't have (and survivors can still destroy your portals)
I don't think that's true at all. His iri's are nice and good for information, but one of them makes you come out of portals slower meaning it takes longer to teleport. Demo is really not a bad killer at all, but he is very punishable. He's probably one of the most well balanced killers we've seen in this game.
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@Bardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3219117#Comment_3219117
Sadly, this part of your statement isn't accurate: "The entire meta and most perks have been reworked to where you only get value by spreading pressure and patrolling. " The Devs have worked for the complete opposite result, I'm afraid.
CoH has completely destroyed the Hit & Run strategy - you completely waste your time if you just injure a survivor as they'll be back to full health after an extremely short time in the Boon radius. In particular this is awful for the territorial killers like Trapper & Hag - they have the choice of slowly trudging halfway across the map to kick the Boon Totem then trudge back to their defended/trapped area - and the Boon will be back up before they're halfway back to their zone. Complete game-loss right there. And before the chorus of "But CoH has been nerfed!" let's be honest - the nerfs only reduced the slowest healing time by 2 seconds. Hardly a nerf.
The devs took away the incentive to spread out hooks from BBQ, which was one of the most commonly used perks. I'm honestly baffled as to that choice as it removes the incentive to not tunnel in the early game. Frankly, I expected them to extend things like a further incentive if you got all survivors hooked twice which would have incentivised killers to not tunnel AND to not camp. A win-win you'd think but they did the opposite!
Now with basekit UB coming in there is no longer the pressure for survivors to pick up a slugged team-mate - they'll get back up on their own - yet another reduction in the killer's ability to spread pressure around.
I'm not going to write a novel but just these few examples should serve to show that the Devs are actively choosing to make it harder to spread pressure around, and by stating that the only thing that will raise a killer's MMR is the number of survivors they kill means that tunnelling in particular becomes an even more effective strategy.
I would suggest that you might reconsider your blanket statement about anyone who ever camps or tunnels, it comes across as just biased and ignoring some of the realities that killers face.
CoH is stupid, but it's at least managable now. If you have such an issue with it maybe you should run Shattered Hope? Also BBQ being changed literally makes no difference because the bp costs and gains are way better now with incentives.
What I mean is by the NEW meta. Overcharge, Call of Brine, Eruption, Pain res. All four of those are the most popular regression perks at the moment. And you get value from none of them by camping. You have to chase and get downs on different people for them to be useful in any sense. So, yes, the game does encourage you to not camp. Because there's no more perks that help with camping and tunneling. The survivors run faster and get endurance for 10 seconds, meaning it's hard to kill them right off the hook. Another incentive to not camp and tunnel.
You also seem to not understand that most survivors will be picking themselves up in 45 seconds. That is a huge amount of time to be down and out. And for the survivors running slug builds, just hook them. Now their perks are useless. You don't want to slug normally unless you're going to get another quick down. If you take 45 seconds to kill someone else then you probably would've had that slug picked up by now in the current game state anyways. Unbreakable is kind of dumb, but yet again, if you suspect they have it just pick them up. Obviously we could go over a million different scenarios where this might be a problem. Many people bring up the point of getting swarmed by the team near a pallet, but that's free health states and them doing nothing. If someone seems a little too eager to go down, they probably have unbreakable. That's the easy way to tell. Otherwise just don't leave survivors downed for a long time if you aren't getting anything out of it.
They aren't making active efforts to make it harder to spread pressure. CoH has been nerfed like 4 times now. Is it perfect? No. I don't think the perk should allow you to heal yourself at all but that's not my decision to make. They also removed the 4 second medkit heal thing you used to be able to do with green medkits. So tell me more about how they've "actively" worked to make hit and run harder. I have no problem spreading pressure unless I'm already losing. If you see someone with a medkit just don't drop chase on them. Otherwise you're good since they're going to take 20 something seconds to heal with CoH. If self heals are a big problem for you, run Franklins and watch them say bye bye to their medkits.
So, with the entire game being completely changed to keep killers more mobile and active, what are the purposes of camping and tunneling? Easy kills. It's that simple. The game gets hard, they don't want to get better, so they take the easiest route. Along with being able to grief the survivor they're raging at. Because as I said, to them a win is a win no matter what the conditions are. I killed you? I win. Doesn't matter if you died on your first hook state after looping me for an hour. I still beat you. That's the mindset.
People who camp and tunnel early into the match are already scared they're going to lose. And that fear only makes them more anxious because now the survivors are mad at them and they haven't developed the skill to actually handle the entire team. With the ego on a lot of the people who play this game, having that bruised is the worst defeat of all for them. And I feel like a lot of that plays into the tunneling mindset. They've been tbagged by some mid swf and now they're mad. They ruin others fun because they had to put up with trolls in a video game.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3219784#Comment_3219784
Well M1/chase perks don't do much for him anyways. Enduring, STBFL (this one is only bad because its hard to force an M2 in certain places), Spirit Fury, Bamboozle. All of those kind of go against what you want to do. Denying pallets is a big part of his chase, along with getting people when they're stuck in an animation and can't move. I'd say dissolution would be decent since you can trap a survivor at a loop, M2 them, then they're just dead at that point. You already have a super versatile chase tool.
That is my point, yes. They are worthless. As are the hook perks.
I've been playing Pyramid head since his release near-enough non-stop. I know how he works. And I know that Scourge Hook perks are worse on him than every other killer. You're going to hook people, yes I do not contest that. But there will also come times where caging/Final Judgementing someone is the correct, most efficient play to minimise downtime and ensure that you can win but then you won't get any value out of your SH perk/Grim Embrace, unlike if you'd used a perk that has far more consistent value that can still perform it's effect (and better, because it's more versatile) hence OverBrine.
Also you've dedicated four slots to slowdown. Absolutely not. The fun part of the game to me is the chasing and the sick shots through walls and the shutting down loops and the winning the game my way. I can't do that with quad slowdown because it feels super cheap. If I can earn my win using 2 slowdown 2 information I feel substantially better about myself and can leave the game knowing that others also had more fun than if I'd subjected them to the quad slowdown hell, especially solo queue.
Like I said, if it's fun for you, great. But in my professional opinion that build is a handicap to efficiency and just downright screams "I AM BORING AND WILL PLAY VERY PREDICTABLY".
And being predictable? Now that's just no fun.
I've played him a long time as well. You can still use cages with this build. The issue is rarely survivors will step into torment without corralling them into it, which isn't always possible. In the majority of my games I get hooks more than cages. Still, cages are still extremely strong even with this build. I may not get my scourge hook, but now I have a quick hook state and can immediately get back to harassing everyone else. It's enough of a trade off that my scourge hook doesn't matter much anymore. It's not the best pick for him, but it does bring the build together nicely for what I'm trying to achieve. I find more often that using trails will make people run the other way, which is the way I use it to cut off survivor paths.
It is a slowdown build, yes. But it takes actual effort to use. I don't just kick a gen and make it explode a bunch. I have 1 regression perk. The entire purpose of the build is to surprise survivors and give myself time periods to do as much damage as I can worry free. Like once my Grim Embrace activates I can take a bad chase with no punishment. That gets rid of pallets in a strong area and a down. Or if I can't find someone I can find my obsession and chase them. I can also hold off on my Grim Embrace and save it for when I need it most. Cages help with that part, but like I said you can't always get someone tormented. Then No Way Out activates as a final trump card. The last chance to do as much damage as possible. I find a lot that this perk gives me just enough time to get the finishing blows I needed before the survivor escapes.
If you find it boring, that's too bad. But I don't see how it's more boring or predictable than another guy running Eruption+ Brine/Overcharge. It at least takes some planning and improvising to make use out of it. It's not the most efficient or oppressive build and that's fine. I created it to have a good amount of game delay but not make it at the survivors expense. I have to try just as much as they do to make it work.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Honestly it's a no from me. 3 hook-related perks, 1 of which is a Scourge Hook perk and another is Grim Embrace? Absolutely not. I'd get more value out of an M1 perk and you won't see me caught dead using them on him either.
His power just has so much anti-synergy with 3 of those perks that the only one I can see being remotely viable is No Way Out.
OverBrine, Lethal, I'm All Ears. Those 4 perks are where it's at.
If you're having fun, then stick to it. But that build honestly looks more like a handicap.
Well M1/chase perks don't do much for him anyways. Enduring, STBFL (this one is only bad because its hard to force an M2 in certain places), Spirit Fury, Bamboozle. All of those kind of go against what you want to do. Denying pallets is a big part of his chase, along with getting people when they're stuck in an animation and can't move. I'd say dissolution would be decent since you can trap a survivor at a loop, M2 them, then they're just dead at that point. You already have a super versatile chase tool.
Obviously regression is going to be best along with aura reads but I wanted this to be something different. The build is more focused on keeping the match tipping back and forth. It keeps the game engaging for me. It's enough to not completely get rolled but also not so much you can just keep the game going forever with overbrine and eruption.
Like I said it seems weird to run hook perks on him but normally you're going to hook people a couple times. I like this build because it let's me have a couple of strategies besides "defend these 3 gens at all costs".
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@MrDardon said:
You came up with a gen defence build. I mean, if it's fun for you but for me seeing yet another gen slowdown build isn't the most fun.
I still like IaE, Nemesis, Enduring and Lethal Pursuer with double range.
The build isn't focused on regression, just game stall. It's entire purpose is being able to flip the game at any moment in the match.
Aura reading is fun but I don't care for it too much anymore. It's good for pog shots and that's about it.
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@cburton311 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3219117#Comment_3219117
save the best for last is also great for camping, and killers base kit gave them free stacks of it.
yea but it also requires you to at least chase other survivors for some time to build it up to being useful for camping. the current cooldown still isnt short enough to completely deny an unhook.
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You don't. That's part of their design. If Pyramid Head could cage someone and make it across the map in 5 seconds then he's now one of the strongest killers in the game. What we really need is maps that are reasonably sized and created in a way that's clear and easy to navigate. Giving killers who don't have mobility ways to instantly traverse the map trivializes any killer with that power built in and makes balance a complete mess.
There's a trade-off with every power. Normally it's some form of strong anti-loop but with no way to quickly cross the map. Or the other way around. That's why the killers who have both, Blight, Spirit and Nurse are the best in the game.
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But there are incentives at the moment. The entire meta and most perks have been reworked to where you only get value by spreading pressure and patrolling. It's just camping and tunneling is so easy for a free kill you don't really have to play the game that way. People aren't doing it because they have no other option, they're doing it because its easy and gives free kills. The only times killers do this is when they're trying to grief someone or if they're legitimately inexperience and don't know how to play the game. Sometimes its both.
Currently the only perk that helps with camping is Insidious. Which is, y'know, Insidious. If you expect the killer has it just listen out for their breathing or audio cues.
Still the problem is killers feel like if they get kills, no matter the circumstances, they won in some way. You can camp someone and likely still have enough time to down someone else and camp them to death too. I do agree that we need to punish the tunneling and camping, but we also need to recognize why people are doing this. Which is largely because its a cheap way to feel like you've won. Whether it be over someone else or the entire team. I think this is due to the fear of losing and being bm'd or something like that. No clear win condition means that people are making up their own so they don't feel terrible. And largely wins are associated with the amount of kills.
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It has 4 buildings, 4 out of 5 possible god pallets are guaranteed, then pallets surrounding that area. If basement isnt in main building you have to break a wall to hook a survivor, opening up the stupid loop. pretty much every map needs another rework at this point, but preschool is way up there.
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There is actually a way to make zombies useful. They're attracted to sound. So screams, explosions, all that stuff attracts them. The trick is to keep survivors in one area with your zombies. Still they might bug out.
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JUSTICE FOR MAURICE
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Gameplay wise it's much more bearable. I just hate how barren and lifeless it seems aesthetically. I wish there was more to it's visual design.
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Map design will always be bad as long as its based on rng. You can get a map with 0 pallets or you can have 6 pallets around shack with a crane loop and gens spread around the entire map (personal experience). I really think realm variations would be so much healthier. Gameplay is still different, but now you can actually balance the maps properly. This version of the map has problems? Okay we'll tweak it. It'd be so much better in the long run.
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@Veinslay said:
The MacMillan maps are trash too after they added in their cool new tiles that spawn ridiculous setups. Have fun playing on Suffo Pit, Groaning, and Ironworks against people with boons that can loop. Killer sided game though
you mean the significantly weaker tiles they added? okay lol.
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damn bro thats craaaazyy
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It's a snooze-fest for sure, but let's be real we're talking about Sadako. It's the one thing she has going for her. Still that doesn't mean having a match stretched out to seven real consecutive days is enjoyable in any way.
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Or, even easier and taking practically no effort, run Hoarder and Franklins on Pinhead. For some god awful reason this makes the survivors drop the box, leading to a chain hunt!
It's literally easy mode. Pair it with Engineers fang and count the DC's. Nobody wants to face it because its awful lmao.
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holy ######### an actually based tier list? on the dbd forums too?? thats crazy.
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It definitely needs some kind of change. Eruption is crazy strong when there's no comms and being completely useless for around 30 seconds is way too much. I think the incapacitated should be a lot shorter. Like 10 seconds. That basically means they can't finish the gen while you hook, which is what the perk is trying to achieve. Maybe give it a larger regression increase to compensate? I love the perk in the sense it encourages you to spread pressure on gens and be efficient in chases, but it's flaws really stick out.
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@MrPeanutbutter said:
Oh, being able to tell your teammates that you’re going down completely negates the effects of Eruption? I thought that coordinating on comms didn’t provide any unfair advantage whatsoever in this game 🤨
being able to counter a perk isn't an unfair advantage. thats literally how u play the game. the only unfair part is being prevented from doing anything for 30 seconds because u dont have the information to react to it.
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The simplest solution to this is to remove kobi's outside of Deliverance or Slippery Meat. Kobi's really shouldn't be a thing to begin with, as it's dumb to be able to completely reset the game by sheer luck. The people who want to suicide most likely aren't going to want to sacrifice a perk slot just to give up. And even if they do, there's a chance they can still escape and be forced to play regardless.
All that the current system does is offer a quick "i give up" or confuse new players. So there's really not a substancial negative to removing it aside from some very small chance to clutch a game for free.
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@NITRAS42 said:
I think twins will be better if take away the time from going from victor to Charlotte. It takes like 5 seconds to recover from downing someone, then transfer to charlotte. Takes forever.
Yea idk why they made it even easier to kick Victor. This was a nerf in a lot of ways and I really hope the twins update comes sooner.
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@PabloLovesP4 said:
Ok hear me out..... flashlights and sabo gets the biggest buff ever with this update.
Flashlights threaten killer and make it so they cant pick up... solution: slug the survivor.
Sabotages cause a denial of a rightly earned hook state.... solution slug the survivor till the hook returns. At that point the survivors can use flashlights to help make sure you cant pick up.
Ive gone against bully squads many times. Ive won against bully squads many times. Ill tell you. I have never been more frusturated in this game than when ive played against bully squads (and thats saying a lot because this game is very frustrating at many points)
I get it... nobody wants to slug for 4 minutes across the map. Thats why the devs should be working on improving information across all survivors. Let all survivors know what the other survivors are doing. Maybe add a way to ping your indended objective (like if your running to a slug or a hook you can ping the aura so people know you are on your way to it.) Once solo survivors are on the same playing field as swf then we can balance things better. Changes like this however are sure to help solo-q a little and SWFs a lot. These changes will also bring a greater rift between balance at high and low mmr. With such a rift, people at low mmr will believe the killer is too op while at higher mmr with more competitive players the killer barely has a chance. These are problems that need solved first. Its easier to balance a scale than it is to balance a circular see-saw.
Once the balance between solo-Q and Swf AND balance between high mmr and low mmr is achieved THEN we should start the balance between killers and survivors. If you balance everything on a moving scale the balance will never be good enough.
Honestly this would probably be the better route. Seeing all of this update in action I don't really feel so good about it anymore. It feels kinda hastily made. But it's only a test so I don't think it's going to roll out to live very soon. Hopefully not in the state it is now.
The strongest killers just got stronger. Way stronger. But so did certain survivor strategies.
I don't think survivors being able to deny a hook state is a big problem itself. But as a lot of people have mentioned it wont be hard for 4 man sabo squads to put on anti-slug perks and basically make it impossible for you to kill them. Flashlights aren't so hard to deal with most of the time, but if these situations become common, Lightborn might actually become more than a trolling perk.
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@RenRen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209386#Comment_3209386
If managing your power is getting 1 down then you literally are better off with leatherface or billy. I know you don't want to use up all your meter but getting 1 down with your power consistently would literally mean you are a worse billy. I feel like the argument of knowing which people aren't gonna loop for a long time doesn't really work considering that all 4 can be good and then what? You don't get your power for a long time. This isn't every game but logically if this can happen it means that it's a skill issue on the survivors part.
I don't think oni is bad, but I do think that most maps are not fair for killer at all except nurse. Blood lodge? Strong tiles everywhere. Fractured cowshed? Strong tiles everywhere. The Game? Like you said pallet simulator. I feel like it's not a few maps that oni can struggle in. It's more probably half the maps maybe even more.
Well you also have to consider there will be opportunities to get more than a single down. I'm just saying that his anti-loop is insane and having one hook with half of your gauge is still a really good position to be in for the future. Especially when the chase only lasts around 10 seconds. Bubba and Billy still don't have nearly as good mobility nor chase that Oni has in his power as well. Considering you aren't stunned if you collide with objects. Only if you miss or get pallet stunned, which isn't really longer than 3 seconds.
Map design is more of its pretty bad, yeah. I wish these map reworks would've addressed the problems with their spawns. Blood-lodge usually isn't too terrible for me from my experience but I've also seen it get pretty bad.
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@scorpio said:
45 seconds is a long time, 11-22 seconds is not. If they leave it as is it will very much make life a lot harder for some of the weaker killers without affecting the strong ones nearly as much.
This is a problem. I think UB should have its 100% increase the first pick up, then 50% the second, and 0 for every time after that. It still remains a powerful counter with some usage, but it's not a mistake eraser. The first pick up would be 22 seconds, second pick up would be around 30 something and then 45.
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
It kinda ruins my playstyle, cause I'll usually down a survivor, and if I hooked them recently, I'll just leave them cause ik that'll get someone off a gen, but now it's just a survivor out of commission for 45 seconds, which I mean I guess isn't terrible, but I feel like the before situation is better pressure
It is overall better to have someone occupied picking up their team-mate. But you also have the ability to end the match instantly at any point. I don't think going for the 4 man slug is going to be the strategy most of the time. Mostly it will make hooking and keeping mobile stronger by incapacitating survivors.
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@RenRen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208688#Comment_3208688
Yes oni could make it so that you can essentially make half of the survivors unable to do anything but oni also literally has nothing when he doesn't have blood fury ready. He is an m1 killer and as we both know, an m1 killer isn't exactly threatening. So if he can only get 2 people down and can only hook 1, then that won't be really wort that it could take an oni a long time to get his power on almost every map and maybe 3 gens at most will pop before then.
They also said that they're gonna optimize consoles for a few years now and uh.... yeah. I hope Twins's rework isn't lame and they actually are fun as opposed to what is now.
I also don't think it's gonna kill the game but it definitely will cause problems specifically cause of the killers mentioned and swfs.
And that's why you manage your power meter. Like I said you don't want to always run dry. A lot of times a quick down will set you up for more than a slug will. As someone who plays oni quite a bit, the power denial isn't really hard if you're smart in the early game and take chases you know people aren't going to hold you forever on. But then other times you get The Game and play pallet breaking simulator. Or RPD where you have to make impossible turns. Still these few maps don't make him a bad killer.
Also the twins update doesn't come in this mid chapter, which is an odd choice. My condolences to all 3 twins mains out there. They've had it rough.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208451#Comment_3208451
I'm on console. If it were not for that, I probably wouldn't complain as much about survivors moving like they're on ice around me, because I'd actually have precise/sensitive enough controls to hit them consistently.
I call it as I see it. Every little killer thing survivors can complain about, they have. But the devs, in their ineptitude, are partially reasonable. That's why Spirit hasn't been nerfed again, or why Balanced hasn't been reverted to its original state. But that doesn't mean that they haven't enacted ridiculous, nonsensical changes based on complaining survivors' whims. The new animations, which took time and resources to make, were cancelled because they affected survivor, but the Hillbilly nerf that also took time and resources has stayed because its a killer issue. And when it comes to killer perks and abilities, the devs have always played safe with their numbers, not even allowing them to hit live in their prime so that real players can test them out. Let them roll out allegedly over tuned killer perks, since they won't hesitate to do the same for survivor perks.
I don't want to be righteous, but I do want to get to the truth, and I do a lot of that by commenting on what I see. I've tried to have constructive conversations, but I'm constantly arguing with people whose opinions are just too far out there and aren't really based on anything. They honestly think that if Freddy had his nerfs reverted, that he would still be S tier in today's meta, an M1 killer. They think that Deathslinger's nerf took him from S tier to A tier, and that fundamentally his chase game is uncounterable. They think that pre-nerf Pop and Pain Res were overtuned, but good killers were getting 7 and 8 hooks in a game and still lost all the gens like clockwork. They think that killers tunnel, camp, and slug because their own skill is insufficient to get them the win, not realizing that killers are trying to argue exactly that. I can't even get them to agree that toxicity is based on intention, not something that, for example, is inherent in camping and tunneling.
How does one "work with" that? There's nothing there!
For console, I do feel for you. But it's still something you can avoid. Albeit a little harder.
I don't know what you mean by the animations being scrapped? They're the exact same as they were when they changed.
As for killer nerfs, most of them haven't been nerfed again because they've been made fair. Spirit has legitimate counter-play that isn't "just guess bro lmao". It was the same situation with Deathslinger. Their entire chase was just a guessing game and relying on the opponent to play bad. There wasn't really any skill involved for either side. You either died or you didn't. I suck at Spirit so I won't pretend that I know everything about her. But from a gameplay perspective her changes were very much needed. I don't think being able to stand still and win literally just because there's no information for the other side can be considered good game mechanics. As for Deathslinger he is mechanically the exact same. His wind up time is really not that long but it does take adjusting if you're used to his quick scope. But most of his power is still in tact. You can still pull survivors out of position and reel them around pallets for quick and easy downs. He's easily a solid B. Not every killer has to be S tier to be playable.
Hillbilly's nerf's ironically were for the sake of other killers believe it or not. It brought him more in line with other mobility killers so he didn't just outclass them in every way. Now I want to clarify I am not saying his rework was well done. It punishes you more for using your saw rather than messing up with it. Still he's not impossible to play. But personally I think his staggered strength doesn't warrant the time and dedication he takes to master anymore. I really hope they revisit him.
As for Freddy that's largely nostalgia for a different era of dbd. And his power being far more creative than a clown and trapper love child abomination. He was definitely not S tier, but I do agree that if his power was reworked with the original concept it'd be more interesting and fun to use.
And yes, those perks were over-tuned. But you're also leaving out that this was a time where gen control was basically done completely with perks. In a way it evened out. But now we have base regression buffs, gen speed increases that add up to nearly a minute, and new perk combos. Now you have to dedicate your build to gen control if you want that. Or you could run a chase orientated build and make up for gen control with fast downs. There's actual variety in killer builds at the moment. What you choose legitimately matters and isn't the same rehash of the last 4 games of Ruin+Undying+Tinkerer+Pop Blight. Even now you can run an aura reading build and still be successful. There's far more life in the game than there was before. Survivors don't get a million second chances for screwing up because they brought the same 4 perks everyone else does.
Lots of people get mad at tunneling because the killer is legitimately singling you out for an easy kill. It is a real strategy, but more often than not it's done to bring games to a stand-still very early on and punish teams who have to no way to deal with it. The game is moving away from that playstyle and making pressuring the team more rewarding. You have to remember that even though you don't kill the survivors as fast, the game still drags out because of that. If you focus one guy and he loops you forever, of course you're going to see gens fly. Because you're only pestering one guy instead of the other 3 on gens.
Yes, 8 hook games happen. But a majority of the time they result in no kills because of killer mistakes. You're not going to win 100% of the time and that's okay. This game is complete rng from the start. You could get a shelter woods with 6 pallets as a Bubba or you could garden of joy as Trapper. Sometimes survivors are just better and sometimes they just brought better stuff. But that happens to survivors as well. Really if you have the best builds you don't have to even be good at the game. You just have to be decent. This has been something EVERYONE has dealt with.
I've had a pre-nerf Spirit with Ruin+Undying chase a guy for 5 gens getting juiced then get a 3k with NOED and Bloodwarden at the end who called us genrushers and BM'ed as much as they could in chat and to the people she hooked.
I've also had 4 man swf's bring me to pre rework haddonfield with old balanced landing and t-bag the ######### out of me the whole time.
What I'm trying to say with this is, sometimes you're just going to lose and people are going to be ######### about it. No matter how cheap they played. And you're just going to have to deal with it. It's annoying but that's what they're trying to do. But not every loss you get is because you went against a swf, or because they brought certain things. A majority of everyone's losses are because they made some major mistake. The swf you're facing most likely isn't playing it like a tournament.
If you want to win easily as killer you can do 2 builds that require the bare minimum from you. Alch Ring and Blighted Crow Blight + Engineers Fang and Impaling Wire Pinhead. You will have constant chase pressure and easily injure the team in seconds. An added bonus is Pin Head literally has built in game delay. These aren't the only one's out there, but they are by far the easiest one's to do.
If you look for something you're going to find it. Survivors aren't the only one's who complain and throw fits about game decisions. And they're not the only one's who can play on easy mode. If you aren't having fun and the match is stressful, just disconnect. Turn your messages to friends only, play something else and calm down. It's something I've done a lot and there's no shame in it. It's better than getting pissed off and being mad for a while. I understand dealing with those types of people multiple times a day gets annoying. But if you're having those matches constantly and they're really bothering you just wait until tomorrow or another time of day to play it.
These forums are an echo chamber for killers. The truth you're being sold is not the reality.
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@RenRen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208455#Comment_3208455
They said that twins is getting a rework for a pretty long time. Also you literally won't be able to slug 1 person as oni cause if you down someone and go after another then the slugged can get up because of the increased recovery from unbreakable. If you can't go down even 2 people with oni's power you literally are better off using cannibal or billy.
Oni's strength isn't just his insta-down but his lethality. He has an insane chase tool and that's where most of his strength comes from. More often than not you aren't going to get multiple downs, and that's fine. He makes up for it with his short chases. You will be able to slug more than 1 person regardless. You might not get the hook, but it's a lot of down time on a survivor. So really if you get one down then hook another person you have only half of the team able to do anything. That's massive for slowdown.
To put that in perspective, 2 people can't do anything for about a minute and another one has to go for the save. Only 1 person can be working on gens. Even then that's risky. Because now I can most likely come back to that slug and pick them up if they have been recovering. If that person crawled away that's even more time bought for me. If 1 person keeps working on gens their efficiency is still taking a blow and putting them in potentially even more danger by not supporting the team altruistically. Because now I can intercept that survivor and make the save even harder. Yes, that slug will get up in due time. But it wasn't a total loss for me. Because now I'm guaranteed the team has to heal at least 2 people back to healthy and make sure they're safe the whole time.
As for Twins, this should be around the time for their updates to roll out. And I highly doubt bhvr would make this change and leave them in the dust. After all this update is part of the updates they're doing to make the game more enjoyable. It doesn't make sense to have a slugging killer still around when you're trying to remove slugging.
People will have to adapt their playstyles for sure, but I don't think this is going to kill the game.
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@RenRen said:
It definitely will against swfs and certain killers that rely on slugging such as twins or oni.
That is true that SWF squads will find a way to abuse this, but I think it's not too out there to assume these sorts of things will be lined out as time goes on. This change is going to take adjustments for a little bit, but it will be fine in the end. Twins, yea they get screwed pretty hard, but their rework is supposedly coming very soon and I'm sure that their power has been made to fit this. Oni doesn't get screwed too hard I don't believe. You only really get around 45 seconds of power and you don't want to use up ALL of your gauge every-time you use it. So largely this will only punish him for making bad decisions.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206098#Comment_3206098
You would say that about movement exploits.
But no, survivor mains do more than just play survivor. They get on here and say X killer is broken, X killer perk is broken, and that the game is killer sided when it's clear as day that it's not. They influence balance, and the devs are gonna give them what they want because they always have. Anytime an interesting killer perk comes out, its numbers are too safe, or it gets nerfed into safe numbers, with "safe" being the survivors' definition of it. Ruin/Undying gone, Pain Res/DMS gone, Pain Res/Pop gone. Hit and run was gone when they put CoH in, and slugging is soon to be dead despite perks being made around it. This is all observable. Any time the killer has something decent, it's gone in a jiffy, because survivors deem it "broken" whether it is or not.
"movement exploits" LITERALLY TURN WITH THEM IT IS NOT HARD.
You give the forums way too much credit by saying that survivor mains can somehow move mountains by complaining. You've created this "they" that you villify to make yourself more righteous. Survivor mains don't control ######### and when you can accept that we can have a constructive conversation.
If survivor mains control everything, why hasn't Dead Hard been reverted to it's old state? Why have gen times been increased? Why have we seen killer buffs all around the board? Just because Overcharge isn't a 400% regression or Hangman's doesn't give you a map wide scan of survivor locations doesn't mean they favor survivors. It means they aren't stupid enough to roll out over tuned perks. That is a good thing whether you agree or not.
The only "nerfs" we have seen are one's to bring killers more in line with each other. Literally the only objectively bad one was Billy's and that's largely because the way his change was implemented was done in the wrong way.
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Don't let that get you down. People are dicks especially in video games. Trapper basically has no chance against a team who uses their eyes and solo-que is just solo-que. These things just happen, and a break is always good from any game, just don't let a few scumbags ruin this for you.
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@burt0r said:
Okay, i think it's funny when you tell people that they freak out too much and then say yourself that UB shouldn't let survivor pick themselves up in 23 second because THATS THE POINT PEOPLE ARE FREAKING OUT ABOUT.
Not the 45 seconds Version of base ub which would end up with max 5 uses but the 23 second version with 10 tries coupled with intentionally going down at a pallet or near teammates with flashlights.
That's the problem. Even slight coordination will have an enormous impact on hook denial if the change goes though like that.
It will leave the majority of m1 killer with two lose options:
A)just try to pick up
-> get pallet stunned/beamed
B) chase the other survivor off
-> getting value out of chasing the other survivor will take long enough for the slugged to get back up and bring you back to square one with another survivor in chase and only a lost health state to show for it, meanwhile 2 other survivor have been doing gens for 30+ seconds unimpeded
Or
-> scare the survivor away only for them to follow you back to the slug and you are only left with hoping that the survivor makes a mistake in the ensuing back and forth and that the slug doesn't get back up in an unfavorable moment
This scenario isn't hard to reproduce even with duo swf. And it doesn't even take the other recovery related perks into consideration.
And I am really curious how this fast unlimited unbreakable will interact with flip-flop coupled with power struggle. If they synergize it would mean that the killer doesn't even have 7 seconds to resolve that situation before the pickup inevitably ends up in a pallet stun.
This one perk that we haven't even tested out with this new mechanic doesn't mean all hope is lost. You also should remember the part where I said it should have diminishing returns. The scenario you're creating is actually pretty bad for the team, as you'll have multiple people in one area trying to take hits around a singular pallet. You can force the pallet within 20 seconds easily. One person can't stall for much time without dropping the pallet in the first place. They're either trading a down and a couple health states or getting nothing at all. And even though health states aren't as impactful as a down, you're in a position to snowball now. Powerstruggle and Flip Flop would be a million times better than any of this. This is also assuming they don't fall for the pick up fake or anything like that. It's not as helpless as you're making it out to be.
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@Laluzi said:
I don't see this affecting my regular killer gameplay, but I'm highly concerned about what's going to happen when I encounter anti-hook SWFs - sabo/oak, breakout, boil over with map offerings, flashlights, mass bodyblocking, pallet swarming. Slugging was previously the only real counter to any of this, and that's dead now, especially with the upcoming super-Unbreakable you know those teams will bring.
Mostly I do not think this change was well thought out. Nor did I think slugging was a major issue compared to tunneling and facecamping. There were less disruptive ways to fix griefers bleeding people out for no reason - and that wasn't even the purpose of this change. As for 4-man-slugging Nurses and their obnoxious games, they're more bolstered by these changes than anything.
That is actually a fair point. It's going to be much harder to deal with them. Hopefully that's addressed, but really it's the only thing I can see being worried about.