Vampwire
Vampwire
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All the people who say that it isn't their responsibility to make the game fun for other people are the same ones that DC when they miss their Dead Hard or lose 3 gens from tunneling a guy. You don't have to actively lose, but you don't have to play like your life is on the line. People take this game way too seriously and in trying to 4k every match they only end up making the game stressful for themselves and overall less fun for everyone. I get to some people it's because they don't wanna get t-bagged or bm'd but u gotta let that ######### go it's childish.
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It's just that it's such a boring perk. I don't even wait it out that much anymore because I just hate waiting forever until they DH. Chases with DH suck because in the split second you would have got the survivor they make it so they escape anyways. It's also nearly uncounterable at pallets without good ping. The only thing that's kept me sane is maining Deathslinger. He's good enough to compete but also doesn't worry about DH ever.
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It's an interesting idea. I've thought of it too. I think for certain perks with larger regression numbers, it's not a horrible idea. They should take off more of a further progressed gen and less for one with smaller progress. It'd make things a little more fair. Getting your half way done gen popped back in ye olden days kinda sucked. Losing all that time cus your teammates fed the myers tier 3 all game. But that was also followed with "at least it isn't ruin" lol.
I think passive regression is overall better because it rewards killers for applying pressure. The issue with pain res right now is killers can tunnel a guy and put them on a scourge hook to buy about 20 seconds on a gen. Potentially more with DMS. So now they have more time to wait out the hook stage if they wish to camp, or just come back when said guy gets unhooked to do it again. Now you're down a person with maybe 3 gens left if the killer isn't horrible and knows when to tunnel.
You didn't get pressure out of reworked ruin by tunneling or camping. It also made the match less stressful since you had ruin to regress things for you instead of kicking a gen a billion times. It also left open the choice of leaving up ruin for the time being but also risking it biting you in the ass. I appreciate the meta shake up, it was fresh for a while, but it really just turned into the same issue again. Killers stack slowdowns and tunnel while survivors heal themselves in seconds. Can't split pressure and most of your chases are going to get ######### by dead hard.
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that's the neat part, it isn't. i'd rather play garden of joy than badham.
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The way these killers function is different which is important.
Trickster can technically down faster with good accuracy. I can tell you myself it's possible to down someone 40 meters away with him. Get somewhere high and start pelting them, they cant go anywhere. The reason Trickster is a busted camper is he has more potential downs and faster fire rate. As well as his chase mechanics suck since he can hit you during vault animations with no real reprecussions for missing. Deathslinger and Huntress lose ammo and have a lengthy cooldown time. Trickster just rapid fires and gets half your bar filled. You also can't dodge that many knives at that distance, and on top of that his knives decay when not hit for a set period of time. So the only way to actually loop a trickster is to just run as far away as possible. Any filler loop or low wall loop is just death. People hate Trickster because he sucks to play against.
As a Deathslinger main, his power is largely his precision, area denial and being able to pull survivors around places. The majority of downs you get is through window shots or gaps by dragging survivors around obstacles. Also able to deny DH. That's important because DH is still a really popular perk and obliterates Huntress. Paired with STBFL he's a beast. You can pull survivors out of position and give them little time to recover.
I'd say the only real advantage Huntress has is instant damage. She doesn't have to build up or secure the shot. It just happens. But she also has weird large hitboxes that can collide with so much ######### on the way to the survivor. As well as only able to get 2 downs and an injure assuming you hit every shot at base kit. Meanwhile Deathslinger has very little reload time allowing him to stay mobile, and Trickster having the capacity to down in 5 seconds.
Huntress might seem stronger on paper. And she is strong. But they all have their own sets of advantages that makes them incomparable outside of their range based abilities.
The math doesn't matter because they all specialize in different fields.
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@Ithiria said:
Honestly, watching good killers like Otz play knight, it seems like people are using him wrong?
The way otz seems to play is not just dropping a guard at every opportunity to chase somebody, he seems to play it as an M1 killer and uses guards to break pallets and to chase survivors in dead zones. Otherwise he sometimes sends guards a long distance to pressure gens while doing something else.
Basically, you might be overusing your power.
No that is a good way to use him. You mix the two styles together. I think the pallet break zoning is cool, but like I mentioned it doesn't matter much if they have another loop 3 feet away. Guard snipes are really the fun part of his kit, yet they rarely provide enough substance to do anything.
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So hold a 3 gen until survivors give up? Got it.
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
I mean...
If you're going to say he specializes in 3 Gen camping, and refuse to use the perk tools that work with that tactic.
You're asking for a different killer?(I don't disagree about his strengths, btw).
True, I just wish he had other styles. I really like the idea of his power. Being able to summon minions and control the map should be cool. Being a necromancer juggernaut is cool to nerds like me. It just feels so undercooked and restrictive. You can't make the guards too strong in chase or else that's all they'll be used for, and you can't make them insane at defense or else you make the 3 gen problem worse. I really think if the guards had other utilities based on their character it'd make him so fresh. But that also comes with the problem of making them TOO strong or nuanced to be used in chase.
I like the idea of Jailer making up for his slow mobility and short chase time by blocking vaults or pallets. It at least gives him some utility in chase and potentially threatening outside of it. An Idea I would love for Carnifex is being able to throw a pallet to for him to break, but also making him disappear. Or Assassin triggering quietly. Anything to just play into their strengths and make them more interesting.
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I think Dredge is the embodiment of Evil. Not to be confused with Micheal who's evil incarnate. Not a huge difference but still an important one between the two. The Dredge isn't actually the meat suit but a formless darkness that preys on pain and fear.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/351592/cool-small-detail
Nobody is mentioning doctor?? His eyes are like the most white
It's different with Doctor. His eyes aren't white due to entity magic but more so the fact they're always pried open and surging with electricity. Doctor doesn't really care about any lives, possibly even his own, if it means he can further his research.
Unrelated but I wish we would get more Doctor lore relating to that final part. What does he receive in return for his service? What goals does he have in the Entity's realm where seemingly anything is possible?
(edit: typo)
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@Iza13 said:
Probably Haddie since she has scars and all and her hair is really interesting regarding her streaks. She's really unique, he might like that for his collection.
i would think he goes for the more interesting or attractive appearing faces. otherwise he doesnt discriminate.
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@Dream_Whisper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308957#Comment_3308957
Exactly, in my opinion; Hex Perks are one of those "High Risk, High Reward" Perks as I like the fact that they can be (or for a couple) very powerful Perks that has the potionial to make a impact in the game, for the killer side. But, of course being a Hex perk means that it can be cleansed and deleted from that match which might lead to the killer be down a perk slot or more, if multiple hexs are lost.
I am fine if Survivors have their own Varations of hex perks, which are Boons. However, what me and many can agreed, is that Boon, unlike Hexes are High Reward and literally not alot of risks, especially when a Survivor can boon as many time as they want, as well you can Bless a Hex totem, also to delete it.
If they do not want to remove the amount of blessings a Survivor can make, nor eliminate the Survivors ability to bless a Hex totem. I say, just make blessings totems just simple Disabled the Killer Hex perk, so that there is bit of reward for killer's snuff it.
>>Also, on a side note; CoH is the only problematic Boon perk; that deserves a massive nerf. I do think every other boon totem is perfect fine and balanced, as alot of problem with Boons in general as to do what COH has done.
My stands with COH, unlike other boon perks; is that you do not necessarily need to boon anywhere near the killer in order to get massive value from it, as well as it greatly benefits you, and also your teammates as well. Other boons perks, are more likely get snuffed by killer as Survivors need to stand really close, like in the terror Radius and hearing distance of the killer, to get massive benefits, while COH is strong in just about anywhere in the map, without any penalty!
If it were up to mean to fix COH; I would simply remove the Survivors ability to Self-Care in its range, and simple reveals your injured self/ teammates to every living Survivors on the map in the boon range with the bonus healing. Or keep it the way it is, yet make it only work within killer's terror Radius. Oh and for either change, Medkits should not stack period!
I completely agree with what you said about boons. COH is really what makes them ass. Nobody is going to use anything else because COH will always be the best and safest option. I think boons are a really cool idea. Shadow Step and Exponential are also really great boons. I think that one Yoichi boon could even be good if it got a +1% movement buff, but that perk is pretty tricky to make balanced in the first place so I'd hate to be wrong on that idea and realize too late.
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@Dream_Whisper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308462#Comment_3308462
Yess, Blessing a Hex Totem will not kill the perk but deactivate the perks effects, so that the killer if they go out of their way to snuff it; their hex perk comes back and is active again. Say, for example they bless Devour Hope, yeah the perk doesn't instant down, give killers a slight speed boost and free Mori at all; but if the killer snuff it, it will come back to haunt them.
With this change, this puts pressure on Survivors on whatever or not, they should cleansed it and ensure that the Hex is gone for good; while sacrifice a totem spawn for their boon perk. If a killer is running a full Hex Build, yeah the Survivors can still boon any of them, but it will never make the hex perk go away.
Although if the devs do accept my proposal and make boons deactivate hex perks instead of destroy them. Here's what will happen to the following Hex Perks.
*Blood Favor: Disabled
*Crowd Control: Disabled
*Devour Hope: Disabled, but because it is token based; the killer could or (maybe better) could not earn anymore tokens perk hooks while deactivated.
*Face the Darkness: Disabled
*Haunted Grounds: Activates regardless of the blessing or not, Then Disabled and can be reused again *evil laugh*
*Huntress's lullaby: Disabled, but it can still earn tokens. (I am fine with this perk earning tokens while deactivated, as it not that oppressive)
*No One Escapes Death: Disabled (I don't know why, instead of just cleansing it, but oh well)
*Pentimento: Deactivated (much smarter to cleansed it the 2nd time, as blesses will bring it back)
*Plaything: Disabled, but will come back to haunt the one Survivor it belongs to.
*Retribution: Activates the aura reading and/or oblivious when bless, yet Disabled it so that it can be used again.
*Ruin: Disabled
*The Third Seal: Disabled, yet you can earn Survivor tokens and apply it all at once.
*Thrill of the Hunt: Activated, yet Disabled and can be used again for totem slowdown. (Again, much better to cleansed then bless)
*Undying: If the totem is not Undying, this Undying Activates and take the hit and is gone. If the totem is Undying, and not Hex perk, then the perk will not die and can be snuff back. (Undying can be oppressive when pair with other Hex, so I am relying on rng on whatever a Survivor bless the right hex totem, or it would be much better to simple cleansed it)
I like this too. It's always been dumb to me that something called a Hex is removed so easily by what should be the weaker power.
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I like this idea, but a very evil thing you can do against boons already is run Thrill of the Hunt. Blessing a hex totem takes an entire minute and blessing a dull totem is about 40 seconds. So if you hate boons run that in the mean time until they get addressed or changed (if that ever even happens). It's especially cruel with a hex build on Legion. They will bleed out before they cleanse any totems and if you play with Frenzy a lot you will basically always see when they're on it. Plaything, Blood Favor (or devour if you're crazy), Pentimento and Thrill.
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Prestige really doesn't indicate anything but time on a certain character. I've had prestige 60's crouch around the map and die in seconds, while I've also been juiced by prestige 3's.
The only trend I notice with high prestiges is they're more likely to take you to a bad map. I usually burn an Autohaven or Macmillian offering when I see them because its like 70% of the time they do this.
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This is definitely the wrong way to go about it. The biggest problem with old DH was not just the invincibility. It was that you could immediately make up for any distance lost at any point. If you watch old clips or remember playing it against it, you should remember that majority of the time people would just DH toward a pallet/window. If they ever got mindgamed or misjudged their distance, DH would fix that for them. Not to mention just how fast the dash was. If this were to happen it would have to be hilariously slow, practically killing the perk.
The reason other speed boost exhaustion perks work is because they have some sort of variable or limitation to keep you from just zapping away mid chase. Sprintburst has no synergy with others and immediately exhausts you, Overcome requires you to be healthy, Balanced only activates in very niche scenarios where you would otherwise die, and Lithe works on fast vaults so you cant be too conservative with it in chase. There Head On too but, lmao.
I think current DH is the best it's going to get in terms of functionality. It just needs some limitations in place to make it less of a passive barrier, as you put it. I think in concept the way it works is good. It's suppose to be a high risk high reward perk. But there are some unfortunate oversights that make it an issue.
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@Monlyth said:
Dead Hard is a fundamentally bad design. There's no saving it.
In the best-case scenario with no pallet shenanigans involved, assuming you can reliably bait it out by hugging the survivor's back for a few seconds, the counterplay to DH is to never lunge, and never use a reactable power like Huntress hatchets. In other words, the main function of Dead Hard is taking basic gameplay options away from Killers.
Not only that, but the counterplay of baiting it out means that you will spend 2-3 seconds just staring at the survivor's back in every. Single. Chase, if they haven't shown you another Exhaustion perk. That will never NOT be boring to play against.
I agree. But we're not going to see it go anywhere soon. Best we can hope for is some more limitations.
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306215#Comment_3306215
Considering the recognition for Endurance is server-sided, and a lot of attacks are LITERALLY unreactable when you consider ping+reaction time, pretending that DH is something that you can use consistently and on reaction is an extremely unrealistic thing to say. I main killer, and I have no issues with DH despite going up against 4x DH 4x Adrenaline BNP commodius swfs every other game on my mains.
Yea and I addressed this. It's both ways. The entirety of this post is a call to remove those situations where DH lets you go for free around loops. You swing too early and you give them the endurance. Too late they drop the pallet. This is entirely tied to ping, meaning the already small window of error for killers closes more depending on ping. If you don't have nearly perfect connection with each other you just lose.
We did get really off topic I will admit. But my main gripe is that DH basically removes any risk from greed by guaranteeing the pallet anyways. It's bad design.
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305562#Comment_3305562
That is demonstrably untrue. A fully charged hatchet at mid range is unreactable.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305584#Comment_3305584
Trickster can toss a knife in the air to force a DH. He doesn't have to wait it out.
Blight doesn't have to wait for fatigue, just rush past someone, bump past them, and rush back after they inevitably use DH.
Nemmy pre swinging at pallets is the cause for eating a DH. Fake the power at pallet or wait for the animation to swing.
Artist definitely cares about DH. As an artist main, eating a DH loses me a lot of time.
For anyone that says DH is reactable, I volunteer to do this experiment with you. We hop in a custom game, and you react to my hatchet with DH.
You're completely missing the point though. If the counter to DH is to just not do anything until it's gone, that is a problem. You can do a million fake outs, all you're doing is screwing yourself. Everything in this game has visual and audio ques, so saying it's impossible to reaction DH is just dumb.
I can promise you most of these killers waiting for DH is only going to miss them out on a down. I can tell you that as someone who plays Nemesis, you don't get the luxury of waiting. You don't whip them, they can dodge around. You do too early and they get another loop around. A lot of killers have to make really tight squeezes for their ability to hit. Those plays being completely nullified because of a button is terrible design. It nullifies killer skill.
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305490#Comment_3305490
I mean, are we now specifically discussing killers using their power to down? Let's see. The killers that can down with their power are Billy, Nurse, Huntress, Bubba, Spirit, Plague, Oni, Pyramid Head, Blight, Twins, Trickster, Nemesis, Artist, Wesker, and Knight. Let's look at each individually.
Billy and Bubba should never use their chainsaw against an injured person, so they're out.
Huntress and Trickster can respectively hold projectile and toss a stray knife to bait out DH.
Nurse can blink once to bait DH and a second time to actually down.
Blight can bump through you to bait DH and back again to down.
Oni can cancel a Demon Rush on top of you and M1 normally to bait out a DH.
Spirit's power is unreactable if she uncloaks on top of you.
Twins can bait out DH by holding Victor braced before pouncing.
Nemesis can ready up tentacle and delay the use.
Artist can set up a bird to shut a loop and not shoot it immediately when they're within line of sight to avoid the DH.
The only ones that have a power that is relatively predictable to DH are Plague, Pyramid Head, Wesker, and Knight. Should we now do a breakdown of why other perks are equally as good, if not better than DH, against these killers?
A few issues with this. Artist and Nurse don't really care about DH because their entire powers are "I don't have to play the game lmao". For the others, you can 100% use dead hard to force a losing scenario for them.
Trickster has to either wait longer to get the last throw, losing precious time for his laceration meter and potentially giving the survivors more time to reach safety. It also completely resets all the knives he's thrown which can be a big deal depending on the situation.
If you DH a nemesis whip at say a pallet, you not only get to speed away but they also have to go through their recovery and then break the pallet, basically doubling the distance you gain. With his limited range there's many times he cannot afford to just wait it out.
Oni has a good second or two to wait until he can do anything after stopping demon rush. So this also just means they're missing out on the down for the chance DH might come into play. Not to mention he's on a timer too.
Even though Blight can catch back up, he still has to recharge his tokens after using them. So waiting that awkward 5 seconds to cancel the rush, fatigue, and then start recharging is still a big time loss and generally bad play. 5 seconds might not sound like a lot, but in that time you can reach something while he's essentially stuck in place. You still give them the time to get away.
As other users said, Huntress is easily done in by DH due to the fact you can literally just wait until they throw it.
Whiffing is not a counter to it. That is basically admitting you just have to not hit them until you know its gone. Which has always been the issue with DH. You're forgetting that most killers still have to go through a lengthy cool-down which is almost worse because if they DONT dead hard, you have to repeat the process and extend the time chasing. The argument is in the same vein to saying the counter to a killer is to just not loop them/hide. The counter is to just not play against it.
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@jesterkind said:
I don't mind this idea, it was something I suggested way back when for reworking old Dead Hard too. Overall I think the perk's in a good spot, it's a decent-value but tricky to use and somewhat risky tool for tanking a hit and saving yourself from a deadzone in most scenarios, while being mostly decent in other areas too-- if you couldn't greed pallets with it, it'd still be very good, but always a gamble on whose timing is better.
I'd be down, certainly worth testing.
Yea it really doesnt need much outside of that. This one interaction is just really dumb.
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@Archael said:
Funny thing.
Im one of those "nice killers" who try to make game fun.
Im not using CoB and Eruption combo because its too oppresive... yet if this combo would be nerfed i would propably still not using it becuase it would become too weak. The problem is not those perks alone, but gen regression perks in general. Using more than one makes games not fun, and only way to make those game fun is either changes in game mechanics/objectives or nerfing those perks to the ground.
Tho i would like to see a changes that would make games with gen regression perks a fun games.
I agree with you wholly. Killer's meta will always prioritize gen regression because so many other perks just aren't as reliable or straight up useless. And without it the games feel like they spiral out of control too quickly.
BHVR needs to somehow find a way out of this pigeon hole. Which will only realistically happen with dramatic gameplay changes. That would be fixing gens in a way that isn't just slapping on a few more seconds and map lay-outs making gen patrols possible without leaving one gen out in the distance. Maps over-all are the main issues why killers struggle so much. Survivors can somewhat adapt, but killers don't get a choice in which gens they want to protect. Currently being picky with them just leaves a gen floating in the distance, impossible to pressure without dropping it for your other ones.
Not to mention some of them are just horribly busted in terms of looping.
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@Blueberry said:
Any perk that relies on the survivor being on the gen when the hook lands is going to be trash. The only people ever being hit by that are bad players and no one cares about winning against bad players. The only way this works and the only reason pain res works is for the regression amount because it isn’t reliant on survivors being on the gen at the hook moment. If we’re changing Eruption to be like this the regression amount needs to be significant higher as then the Incapacitated effect is basically irrelevant. Keep in mind that Eruption in its current state is what incentivizes killers to make chases since if they can get the down before the gen pops they will have time to save them. Without that effect we’re going to see even more camping/tunneling then we already do.
Killers aren't going to tunnel and camp more or less than they already do just because of a few perks, I can promise that. It's a copium statement to begin with as they're just fearmongering survivors into not wanting the changes. Almost every discussion somebody says something along these lines that killers will have nooo choice but to do it. They do it cus they want to and its easy.
Regardless of that, Eruption needs a different requirement entirely. You cannot predict when someone is going down. Things like Jolt work, because they don't apply a huge regression but enough to interrupt and save time kicking gens that aren't being worked on. It's more of a feel good perk with good utility. Some info, enough delay to reach the gen or maybe get a quick hook. Eruption is like Jolt on crack.
Eruption just requires a down to basically make survivors lose around 30 seconds on a gen. That is insane downtime, and they can't even do anything else during it. You can explode multiple gens, meaning you can potentially interrupt the entire team across the map. So what did they do to mess up for that? You can say their teammate should've never went down, but if somebody is 5 gen looping the killer already what would be the point of Eruption in the first place? There is basically no way to tell when someone will go down. They can get chainsaw'd by a stealth bubba or cross mapped by a Huntress and it still counts the same. The counter play to Eruption is either SWF or hope your entire random team is the Jesus Christ of DbD. 30 second downtime btw.
Just because survivors can dodge things like Pain Res doesn't make it trash. It just means there's an actual counter, which is good. Nothing should just give you a huge boost for very basic gameplay standards. I'd also like to add the majority of survivors you will go against really aren't that good to begin with. I don't care how high or low the MMR, because frankly MMR is just a recommendation if the system can get you matched with similar opponents. Once you reach about a minute in wait time you get paired with who-ever the hell they choose. What classifies as a "good survivor" is completely subjective. Is it someone who can occupy the killer for a long time or one who can save the team and keep gens rolling?
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@xfireturtlex said:
I kinda miss the old standoffs, even though I remember how much they sucked. At least it was interactive.
Think it'd be cool that after hatch is closed, it gets highlighted for both players. Any chest looted at that point guarantees a key to escape. Would give more options to both sides and make it feel tense again, like it could go either way. Maybe they're goin for a door. Maybe lookin for a key. Now it's more of a cat n mouse game.
It's not a bad idea in theory, but the biggest issue is if you make it possible to escape through hatch after being shut killers will just camp hatch until you show up. Which is even more boring than before. Basically bringing back hatch stand-offs but where they're entirely in the killers favor. You wouldn't think someone would waste that much time just for the extra kill but dbd players are super petty about everything.
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@Sycamore said:
I really don't like the Hatch, even as a player who plays both sides equally. It takes 0 skill, or effort for the Survivor to escape. So there is a small community of solo survivors that have their entire build around the hatch, and spend the entire match hiding and not contributing till the rest of their team is dead - and then run for hatch and escape. Which isn't even just the hatch they are aiming for, they take perks that lets them open the doors faster too - just in case that they don't immediately find the hatch they can camp out a door to start opening it the moment the Killer closes the hatch.
It's an ensured escape, and since by being in the killer terror radius, doing totems, and healing/making saves they will still most often pip.
Meanwhile the hatch is just such a big inconvenience for Killer.
- They have to slug the second last survivor just to avoid it, and they don't even like doing that. The slugged survivor might dc, or bleed out - making the slugging pointless in addition to giving that player a terrible end of game because all they did was lay on the ground for 2-4 min's.
- The last two survivors 9 times out of 10 always hide for hatch which could take the game hostage for a very long time.
- When you close hatch there is another group of survivors that just hide out the EGC timer instead of going for a door - just to waste more of your time, or in some self righteous attempt to attempt to make you feel like they took your win away "hAhA yOu StiLl DiDn'T gEt tO hOoK mE"
- There is a social norm of just assuming the Killer should give you hatch if you are the last survivor. The entitlement is ridiculous, and even more ridiculous how many players you run into with this mindset. Even worse the Survivors that get mad at you for giving the hatch to anyone else but them.
- Survivors are rewarded the hatch, after the Killer performs their job well. 🤔. This also makes the victory feel less rewarding, especially when the hatch survivor rubs it in your face afterwards.
Yea pretty much summed it up there. I think it's not a bad idea to leave the last survivor with an escape option so they don't just afk since they probably can't do much anymore. But as you said it just feels like u lose a kill for no reason or the guy who did nothing all match gets rewarded with an escape.
You go for the 4k and you waste somebody's time for a virtual trophy that lasts like a minute at most or you have the bot who hid the entire game waiting to teabag you get what they want. That's how it seems to go.
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The only thing that's really aggravating is getting denied hits due to bad collision or auto aim. The first is something I should probably just learn how to play around, but normally it's coming from debris that's barely on screen.
People who send you to dumb maps and gloat about it in endgame are also kind of annoying, but it's pretty easy to shut them down by telling them something like "the fact you needed all that to win tells me enough". Don't even reply and you'll see them have a meltdown. It's funny.
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I think what would be better is DS giving a speed boost after stunning the killer. That way you can actually make an escape and the killer isn't stuck in place forever. Right now it's useless because you don't make distance and the old one felt really bad to play against.
Once the fear of DS is back tunneling will stop again. That was the only thing keeping killers from doing it before.
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I agree with you. I would change a few things, such as tv's being turned off longer when using them to teleport and having a shorter cooldown when survivors take a tape. I think that should be switched to stop weird scenarios where you can't go back to a tv for about 2 minutes. Would also incentivize taking tapes. As well as making her invisiblity more frequent since the add-ons for it give you a pretty good mind game power. But I really don't think an entire rework is in order. There's some missed potential with the condemn mechanic but it isn't a huge deal.
She really is an underrated gem. Obviously not god tier, but she has so much versatility in her power. Putting on Dragons Grip + Overcharge is something I like to do. You can act like you left and they'll either let it regress or give a down. Anyways, I think killer players focus way too much on anti-loop. For good reason, as most killers powers give them that edge in chase, as well as allowing you to pressure better.
Unrelated but I've found most of the "trash" killers aren't really that horrible. I've been having some success with Trickster recently and it's actually really fun.
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@steezo_de said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KIPQ29I42M0X/front.jpg
There's Ace, David, and Dwight right there. Make it so BHVR.
haha yes
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@UnknownKiller said:
A gothic style nea I see it.
Nea, Feng, Meg, and Mikeala all get goth cosmetics but they're limited time only and don't fit the characters at all. It's just them in whatever the art team saw on the hot topic catalogue. They have the half shaved hair again. They also get 74 different skins after that. And after that they get more.
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@indieeden7 said:
Nea is also kind of implied to be punk but I would really love a full blown goth character at some point.
Yea she does have the punk energy but doesn't really show it aside from a few cosmetics. I agree though I'd love to have a gothic themed chapter or character.
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Don't listen to these guys saying it gets worse as u climb up. You do face better survivors with a lot of different strategies, but those are the matches that are going to teach u how to get better and possibly help u more with survivor since you can recognize these situations. You'll be able to see the mistakes that survivors make that lead you to a fast victory. You'll understand a killers power better and how to play against it.
I'm a pretty experienced killer, and I won't lie sometimes those moments where you're just about to get that one survivor you don't like right before they escape are really thrilling and can bring out a lot of emotion. It can make u salty cus u got so many things running through you. You might want to gloat or tell them how bad they are. Just remind urself its a game. Win or lose there will be a thousand different matches to have. Don't let one squad of shitters ruin your day because they stacked everything they could in their favor. That reaction only fans the flames of their behavior because they'll want to take it out on the next guy or stroke their ego once the game is over. If they're obnoxious just say "gg <3" and leave.
I hope you have fun. It's a long journey but a very valuable one for this game. Experience with both sides will help you see the game differently instead of pigeon holing yourself into the survivor main vs killer main brain disease people have in this community.
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I don't see it really. There's a half second window for it to actually work, and while that can create some frustrating mind game scenarios on "am i going to E or not?" it's no-where near as problematic as it was. There is plenty of counter play and if u don't want to deal with the baiting just swing anyways.
The only time that's ever an issue is in the open where it probably won't make much of a difference. Even if they DH before the pallet drop the worse case scenario is they drop the pallet and lose most of their speed burst. Best case is you see it coming and get a free down. Not to mention they can't vault or throw anything during that. These are the two scenarios I think are the biggest problem with it, but it doesn't benefit more than a couple seconds longer unlike old DH that was multi-functional. If you hate DH play Legion or Deathslinger. They're pretty solid and don't have to worry about ded 'ard.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3280925#Comment_3280925
Does not make it more true, even though they repeat it all the time ^^ There was some information from dataminers a while ago, giving out some numbers about mmr:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHEkN-oDLrk
In the description you find the original video scott is referring to, and it is quite interesting to watch...
Yea I know its bogus. I was using sarcasm.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/356314/you-literally-cant-play-knight-at-high-mmr
First of all there is no high mmr, since above the soft cap everybody is considered to be at that, then again when you have a longer queue the range of mmr that gets matched with you increases and after x amount of time you will get a game regardless of how balanced it is to prevent too long queue times...
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3278610#Comment_3278610
Wesker was very well designed strong killer most people consider to be A tier... Hens did a showcase with him and some of his comp friends and the Wesker did decent , sure not as strong as Nurse, Spirit or Blight but still really good.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3278874#Comment_3278874
Not really dude, I like going against Nurse, Blight, Huntress, Wesker for example... But I do not think I should be able to loop a killer for that long unless he is far worse than me...
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3278879#Comment_3278879
Especially since high mmr doesn't even exist in the way people think it does xD
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3278891#Comment_3278891
First once again there is no high MMR... But then so we actually have something we can work with ... The following picture is a comp tierlist from Knightlight... you can get it from his twitch with !tierlist at https://www.twitch.tv/knightlight He is a comp player currently playing for Team Eternal, the best comp team at the moment:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UVA5CDD16QJA/image.png
According to that I guess we could say that at least A tier is still somewhat viable... And that is comp... Which is completely different from what you imagine high mmr is... Because of that source I would think that this is quite accurate for a comp setting... So Wesker is the 7th best killer in the game... But yeah sure, BHVR does not make killers that are good in "HiGh MmR" anymore...
Every killer main on the forums will tell you they're at peak MMR going against comp squads at all times lol. That's why they have to play starstruck nurse with noed just to win against these sweaty survivors.
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The actual issue with Knights power is his chase. Guards can't be too strong because then they'll make his chase playstyle of placing a guard at every loop way too strong. But, in their current state, they do almost nothing. They can break pallets for you, that's nice. But gen kicks don't even apply the base 2% regression that a killer kick does. Not to mention you can just outrun them. Or just wait out their patrol times. Jailer takes a while but runs way too slow to even be scary. He's basically a really loud Nemesis zombie with slightly better tracking.
They've made another situation that because of how the power works they can't buff or nerf anything too much without breaking it. You either go all in and make him a zoning monster that destroys people at every loop or you make him purely patrol which has it's own list of issues.
I think if guards had their own affects that allowed for more diverse and tactical play, then that would fix a lot of Knight's issues. But yet again, you don't want to buff his already uninteractive chase.
I know some people might say it's not actually good, because it really isn't. But you literally cannot loop a tile with a guard on you. They go through pallets and vaults while the knight chases you from the other direction. If the killers entire counter is to just not get chased with their ability then that is proof you cannot do anything against it. Unless you can somehow wait 5-10 seconds and grab the banner during all of this. Good luck with that.
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I agree. Gen stall is mostly a band-aid for the fact most map set ups make it impossible to build up legitimate pressure through chase alone. I sometimes just give up at 2 gens and focus on chasing people because gen defense is so boring.
But it's also more than just gen perks. It's the spread of them as well as things like Circle of Healing. I've had games go to almost 30 minutes where I just protect a 3 gen while the team runs back and forth from the boon. I can't leave the gens to kick the boon or else I have no hope of winning, along with the fact they can just set it back up. While they also have to get one gen on my side done to win or they're screwed. It just creates an infinite cycle of a rinse and repeat action.
Really everything that tampers with gen speeds and their existing design (bnp's and prove for example) need to be gone. Perks that negate debuffs with no real trade off. Going back to prove thyself as an example: normally survivors have reduced efficiency because of grouping up on a gen. They put in less charges but shave off a few seconds and gain less progress on different gens. But, Prove just negates this entirely. The charge debuff just isn't there. So they can slam gens with no draw back, because the time saved for one gen isn't a big problem now.
Better map design would fix a majority of this games problems. 3 gens wouldn't be an issue if you didn't have to defend one part of the map before it's impossible to patrol all the gens and vice versa. Killers wouldn't need to run 4 slowdowns if they had an actual opportunity to clean out pallets or not have to deal with 7 filler pallets next to shack and a jungle gym.
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The issue is guards need something actually unique to each of them. Right now his power is just forcing survivors out of loops which is something I was hoping BHVR would have moved away from.
I would make these changes:
Carnifex- Inflicts mangled and breaks a thrown pallet in chase before disappearing.
Assassin- Can go through pallets and hit survivors twice.
Jailer- Blocks all vaults within his radius
This would give them tactful use. Currently the only one that's even decent is Assassin. Jailer is way too slow and does basically nothing but alert you to the survivors presence. Carnifex is good for smashing stuff, but I think adding mangled would encourage you to send him out for split pressure. Placing jailer would give you a legitimate chase ability and also make him actually threatening outside of forcing survivors away from loops. He's like an assist troop, while Assassin if your dps. The idea is to make them each have their own utility and encourage using them correctly for pressure.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3272393#Comment_3272393
Not even close to accurate of how Trapper games play out. Unless the Trapper gets basement and wants to secure a measly 1 kill, they can't just lock down an area with no chance of rescue. Either the whole team goes in and can easily get the person out, or they leave them on hook and 3 get out. If you have a problem with that, I look forward to hearing your thoughts on camping Leatherface.
This is all assuming he gets a down, which could be after 1 gen is done, or 4. But what you're saying, that him doing the exact same thing after having to pick up each trap is fine, makes no sense. He's at an instant disadvantage from having to pick up all his traps, and then is in the same scenario as before which you describe as unhealthy. What changed? A killer's supposed to be in a losing position before they're allowed to be in a good position, which survivors can still break out from?
The part about locking down loops is also not accurate at all. I've tried playing Trapper that way, placing a trap at every other pallet and window mid-chase, and it never worked out. They just run to the next loop, because there's always another, and they can even cycle back to ones you've already trapped if their teammates disarm them. The pseudo-instadown potential of them getting caught in the traps is strong, but that's why I suggest this: hold W against Trapper when healthy, and only after you're injured try to loop, and that's only assuming you're running to areas where he's had time to set up. But you can't just set down traps at loops mid-chase without teammates coming to disarm.
I don't see the comparison to Knight at all. Neither killer can simply corner you in the map, or "brute force" (that buzzword). Nothing is for free. Trapper can't even have like half the loops covered even with all traps placed, and he has to have all obvious traps, all hidden (but less likely to trigger) traps, or a mediocre mix of the two. Plus they're disarmable and have to be picked up manually, except when you're using the add-on but then you can't pick up traps. Knight's guards are slooooowwww. There's no way you get cornered. Even if he gets a hit on you, that's a sprint burst plus the guard despawns. Then he has to do the whole set-up again, and this is all assuming he never misses on the guard's puny alert range, and him or the guard actually gets a hit. Even if he downs you, the amount of time it took is gonna cost him the game. The time to down is simply too long.
You, like many, overrate that purple Trapper add-on beyond parody. It's having traps on hand so you can use your power right away instead of wasting half the game picking them up. You still have to set a web of traps, and either lose 1-2 gens with Corrupt + the survivors come closer and see your trap placement, or don't use Corrupt and lose 3-4 gens instantly. And bar his traps, which can be seen and disarmed, he's just an M1 killer, so how could anything he does be that problematic?
I'm not going to get into the whole debate about Knight right now because it's not very relevant to the topic.
There is a clip, though, where otzdarva clearly lines out the problems with starting with all of your traps in the early game. I've been looking for it, and if you're interested in seeing it and I can't find it I would ask you to look out for it too. It basically boils down to what I said. If the survivor doesn't run away they are dead. Which leads to very boring counter-play of just running away from loop to loop until you go down. The exact same problem with hag, although worse since you have to go back and pick them up again. Still, being able to have 10 traps at all times leaves no consequence to bad placements. You can just go and pick up 5 on the way back around then do it again.
I've not overrated the add-on to any capacity. I only said it offers a big advantage with a disadvantage. If you go into the match with a plan on where you're going to lock down and play at, then it's a very good add-on for that. Pair it with resetting traps and you basically don't have to worry about them for the rest of the game. On it's own, yes it is a bad add-on. Most add-ons are. It's when you pair it with your build or other add-on's that it will shine.
Just because a killer is weak at their current state doesn't mean all their limitations should be removed, then it creates a new issue with that character and inevitably leads them to getting nerfed again.
"A killer's supposed to be in a losing position before they're allowed to be in a good position, which survivors can still break out from?"
That is the entire game, yes. Survivors start off at their strongest in the early game. They have all their resources and the killer has no pressure. Once the killer depletes their resources and gets hook states on them that's when they start to win. But victory is still never guaranteed. DBD is a constant game of push and pull.
Killers get stronger in end game. With Trapper, you are entirely focused on area denial. You make them play into your hand. So his kit is inherently a risk reward play style. You give up that precious time dedicated to early game pressure for mid to late game pressure. If survivors aren't careful it only takes a handful of mistakes for you to win as Trapper. If you aren't defending areas of the map then you aren't playing Trapper the right way.
The point of this rework concept is entirely to decrease the down-time he has for setting up traps in a fair way. Not removing consequence for bad plays.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3272128#Comment_3272128
It's a good idea in reality as well. We have it as an add-on, so do you want that nerfed because you can block all the exits? Not like survivors can disarm traps or anything.
Only downside to that add-on is a stupid one, that you can't pick traps back up. Completely unnecessary. I don't want to run an add-on, I don't want to reload every 30 seconds like Huntress and Trickster, I just want my traps on hand so I can instantly start using my power.
I don't want it nerfed at all. I think it's current state is the best way for that to exist. But if a Trapper can just place a trap and keep you in one spot where you lose no matter what, that is an issue. You run one side, you get trapped, you run the other you get smacked by him. With set-up this isn't a problem because you sacrifice something to gain in return. You give survivors time to prepare as well. If you start a chase, place a trap at the only exit and repeat this 10 times they're going to die no matter what. You can't disarm traps mid chase without a teammate. He would just create the issue that hag has.
With the release of the Knight, the last thing we need is another zoning killer. All the strategy of Trapper is going to die because people will just use the easy chase strategy with 10 traps on hand. With every zoning killer, you COULD run away, but you will eventually get cornered or run into a dead zone. It's a no skill play style because you're just not even playing the game. You're forcing people to give you hits regardless of what they do. Buffing him to be more chase orientated is exactly the problem with the Knights release we got. The strategic part is gone and traded for a brute force chase play style.
Not being able to pick up the traps is what prevents this. It's an add-on for veterans of Trapper who know what they're going to do when they load in. I think we should have more add-ons like it in concept. You gain something very valuable but with a draw-back, so you must use it intelligently.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3271575#Comment_3271575
"Certain parts of the world" being "all of Europe". Which, I should also note, is way closer together than most of the US so actually would have less lag issues (and reasons to not connect across national borders) than the US coastlines.
and as i said, many of those places are bilingual.
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@danielmaster87 said:
Just let him carry all of his traps from the start, so he doesn't have to waste time walking cross-map to get them. If that's too OP for people, I don't know what to say.
@MeanieDeeny said:
I do like some of these ideas, particularly the speed boost when someone is stuck in a trap far off. I like that a lot.
I am a Trapper main, and he’s great when you first start out..but once you start going against nothing but high level SWF’s, it’s hell. Even the wins feel terrible.
I think Trapper even just starting with all his traps, would make a world of difference. Not the traps that can’t be moved. When you’re going against experienced SWF’s, you really don’t have sufficient time needed to not only set up all your traps..but go collect them all first 🤦🏻♀️ It’s a lost cause. I keep fighting the good fight, but everything working against Trapper really sucks the fun right out of the game.
It sounds like a good idea on paper, but it would create situations where you just keep a survivor trapped in one place as you block off the exits. How would you guys feel about reloading at lockers?
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3271561#Comment_3271561
I always wonder if people forget that not everyone can or wants to use voice comms anyway. Or, in fact, that the game is also played across national borders.
You don't HAVE to use them. But for a number of reasons it's beneficial. Saying "Hey do this gen while I get the save" or "Are any of you guys doing this?" is more than enough. You don't need to talk to the randoms the entire game if you don't want to.
Plus it'd add some humanization of your teammates. I think a lot of toxicity in the game is attributed to the fact that the other players can feel like NPCs at times. If anyone is being a jerk then you can just leave them to die until they learn how to be nice. If you have a bad teammate try and tell them how they can be helpful. The majority of the time bad teammates really just don't know how to approach certain situations.
It would also allow the devs to balance around coordinated tactics. It would allow survivors to approach things in smart ways with clear intention. Killers would receive buffs, problematic perks and oversights would get worked out. It's a net positive for the game overall. The skill ceiling is elevated and less frustrating for both sides while also having fresh new tactics. The entire game would change for the better.
As for the language barrier, you probably shouldn't be playing against players from overseas or anything most of the time. One of you guys are going to be laggy as hell. There's certain parts of the world where people in surrounding countries speak different languages, but most of the time people from those places are bilingual.
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DH is okay. I see a lot of survivors hold it until they're about to vault, but if you can expect that you can kill them easily since they're screwed after that. They usually look behind them before they go to vault. The only issue I've seen is them holding it at a short pallet where the only way to get a hit is to lunge across. BUT since you have to be movng to use DH now, just pay attention if they're spinning or something. Plus it's not much of a distance gain since they have to vault the pallet and basically waste a chunk of their speed burst.
COH, on the other hand, will never be balanced as it is. That, or heal speeds are addressed properly.
Either way, having a healing beacon that only one person needs to bring for the entire team to benefit is harsh. Normally it ends up in a place outside of your gens. So far that if you go to break it you give them free gen time and if you don't you can't build any meaningful pressure. THAT is a lose/lose.
My suggestion for it would be allowing a certain amount of healing charges before it runs out. Make it so healing together in the boon is encouraged. At least something that doesn't allow it to stall games forever. DBD has had a long history of releasing things that punish the first person to make a move. And this is one of them.
Having the team just alternate from healing themselves for a few seconds and coming back to swarm gens is a stale gameplay loop. If the survivors get chased too long they risk giving the killer pressure, so they run to the boon on the other side of the map. If the killer commits to breaking the boon, it comes back up in a couple of seconds and they lose their gen defense.
The sad part about it too is I love the concept of boons. COH just outclasses all of them in utility. It's the only type of perk that encourages survivors to play parts of the map rather than run wild.
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MMR has not and probably never will work. A game like DBD doesn't need MMR but more healthy interactions. The lack of voice comms is an issue for survivors in solo-que since you can't cooperate with your team to your best ability or help players who don't know what to do. Yet, you go to SWF and now you can do anything.
I'm not trying to turn this into a SWF rant thing, because I actually think having voice comms is the step towards a healthier game for a couple of reasons. But what I'm trying to say is the game needs changes to itself before we could ever have a working MMR system.
A solo-que team is helpless against a Starstruck Nurse. And Killers will suffer until certain items and perks get adjusted. You can't do anything against a 4 medkit team with COH on Garden of Joy.
My point is, until the devs address the issues with the game and its design MMR will mean nothing. Bad players can get carried by everyone else or perks and still be told they're on that same level. A Trapper can't do as well as a Blight, but is still judged the same by MMR.
At best it prevents smurfing. At worst we get what we had before. A battle of who can bring the strongest stuff.
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@tippy2k2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3271517#Comment_3271517
Yeah, I only played Dad of Boy (never played the original trilogy for some reason) but I know that happens a lot in those games. Kind of like Mega Man where he absorbs the powers of something he killed to make his weapons stronger.
I need to get me a PS5 at some point so I can play Dad of Boy 2...
dad of boy is still pretty good on its own anyways. if u really like the games im sure the original trilogy will go for sale cheap at some point. but yea, it's not a matter of if he can kill it more like when will he kill it. he defies all odds.
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@tippy2k2 said:
From what I've seen of the lore, Kratos alone would not be able to. However if he either worked with the Blight or got the Blight Sirum somehow infused into his weapons, then he'd be able to.
thats usually what he does with most of the gods he faces. baldur and zeus specifically.
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I do agree that Knight giving survivors a speed boost and endurance is pretty stupid. BUT, the other's you list are basically unaffected by it, nor are these things that the killer gives survivors. It's just a way to counter their power. The only one who's really badly hurt by it is Wraith, which even then, can move faster than they can turn so just zigzag and make them waste battery.
The other 3 that are affected by flashlights are Nurse, Hag, and Artist. 2 of them can either shut down loops entirely and force you to just run away until you eventually get cornered. The other one is Nurse. I can promise if you're light burning a nurse she's allowing you to do that.
All 3 being some of the best killers btw.
But yet again, item counters aren't the killer GIVING a buff. It's just a counter to the character.
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I think it's the only way to actually balance the game. As long as theres a disparity between the two it will never be balanced.
For example: Eruption is a nightmare for solo-que players but it's not a problem for swf.
Another one, which is just gameplay itself, would be two survivors committing to a save. They have no way to tell who's going to do what, so they put two people at risk of being caught and lose time on gens that they didn't need to lose. There is legitimately no way for them to tell and they lose time for that sole reason.
and ANOTHER example would be Pinhead. The box isn't hard to handle for swf, but it's hard for solo because they can't coordinate.
SWF balances the survivor gameplay by allowing them to coordinate properly and react to what the killer does as a team. When they would normally die because of this inability to communicate. While a SWF could easily recognize and prevent a 3 gen, a solo que team could not.
Communication is a key part of the survivor experience that just isn't in the game. Despite what many killers say, it makes the game balanced. And until we have it as a base feature of the game all the strategies only SWF can pull of will never be addressed. Perks, mechanics, maps, killers, all of them will not be designed around those strategies as long as survivors cannot communicate.
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Trickster's design is just extremely flawed. You make him 115 and now he's super oppressive in chases, able to build up laceration while also gaining distance on survivors. There's a reason he's hated already which is he can almost guarantee an eventual down on you. 44 knives and he has to hit 12 of them. That sounds like a lot but you can usually get about 3 or 4 knives in on a single vault animation. Sure, he may not be super good at certain loops but that doesn't mean he isn't awful to play against.
His main issue currently is that his power just isn't consistent on certain tiles. That and main event never coming into play. He's just a disaster. I think they tried to do what they originally intended with legion. That being a killer who combos hits. While Legion left basically no counter against frenzy, Trickster just gives you a very long and drawn out death. You will die, but it's only a matter of when. You can die in seconds because it's a low-wall loop or you can die after 3 gens get done because you're at a main building.
He is weak but definitely not to the level people say he is. His power is about keeping pressure through chase but his mechanics are so bad they don't do anything. You hit a survivor with 4 knives and leave them, now you accomplished nothing.
I like the idea Scott Jund had when Trickster released, being that you have to remove the knives from yourself. The idea is that you could build game pressure with him. Survivors would have to take a small amount of time to remove knives manually or they could leave them in to save time but also make themselves vulnerable to his ability later. So instead of just having to dodge a flurry of knives for however long, you could actually do it yourself during chase and actually counter his ability. It's dumb for both sides that laceration is just timer based. It basically means the survivors just have to hold W against a 110 killer to win. Leaving very little else to actually do.