Trapper Rework Suggestions.
This is a pretty simple one. Fitting for probably the simplest killer.
The idea is that he has different types of traps now. Not many. Just some to help him when he doesn't have bear traps. Pressing ctrl switches to another trap type.
One idea would be giving him razor wire, which slows down survivors for a few seconds after walking through it and has a longer radius. It disappears after being ran though a certain amount of times. 2 or 3.
Or a trap that sets off a noise notification. Giving you a location to survivors where-abouts, although this one doesn't sound terribly useful. Just listing ideas for different types of traps.
Your bear traps will still be your main power. As your others are more there to inconvenience and hinder survivors. As for bear traps themselves, I'd give two simple buffs.
- They spawn closer together and into the middle map more. Less travel time. Traps that haven't been touched by the Trapper will decay if he's outside of a certain radius and spawn nearby. This would be for those few traps that stay outside of where the match is happening and see no use. Once you pick it up it won't despawn ever.
- The Trapper gets a speed boost when survivors get stuck in a bear trap. 10% haste for 10 seconds. This would allow him to close distance on people trapped far away, making him more threatening at a distance. It would also allow him to choose between chasing someone with his speed or going towards the trapped survivor.
Currently if someone steps in a distant trap it's pretty much a waste. The ambush aspect is gone and it's also disabled. I also wanted to give something to help in scenarios where running far away to get a trap you need happens less often. This is all to keep the pace of the game flowing and not have weird break times of trying to set up again.
I hope this doesn't complicate Trapper too much. He's mostly a beginner killer to teach new players map control and stuff. But I also want to open the possibility of making him more viable against experienced players and remove the large amount of down time he has to put in. Having a weaker secondary trap for just in the moment would help this too without replacing bear traps.
Comments
I do like some of these ideas, particularly the speed boost when someone is stuck in a trap far off. I like that a lot.
I am a Trapper main, and he’s great when you first start out..but once you start going against nothing but high level SWF’s, it’s hell. Even the wins feel terrible.
I think Trapper even just starting with all his traps, would make a world of difference. Not the traps that can’t be moved. When you’re going against experienced SWF’s, you really don’t have sufficient time needed to not only set up all your traps..but go collect them all first 🤦🏻♀️ It’s a lost cause. I keep fighting the good fight, but everything working against Trapper really sucks the fun right out of the game.
It would still give the problem of placing traps.
Just let him carry all of his traps from the start, so he doesn't have to waste time walking cross-map to get them. If that's too OP for people, I don't know what to say.
#2 is not a good idea, a random teammate steps on a trap and suddenly Trapper with Bloodlust3 has 135% speed to down you. There must be some change on escaping a trap thats not RNG for sure, but speed boost isnt.
Trapper needs some QoL:
Suggestion 1, would also help other killers such as demo, hag, nightmare and soon knight.
It sounds like a good idea on paper, but it would create situations where you just keep a survivor trapped in one place as you block off the exits. How would you guys feel about reloading at lockers?
It's a good idea in reality as well. We have it as an add-on, so do you want that nerfed because you can block all the exits? Not like survivors can disarm traps or anything.
Only downside to that add-on is a stupid one, that you can't pick traps back up. Completely unnecessary. I don't want to run an add-on, I don't want to reload every 30 seconds like Huntress and Trickster, I just want my traps on hand so I can instantly start using my power.
I don't want it nerfed at all. I think it's current state is the best way for that to exist. But if a Trapper can just place a trap and keep you in one spot where you lose no matter what, that is an issue. You run one side, you get trapped, you run the other you get smacked by him. With set-up this isn't a problem because you sacrifice something to gain in return. You give survivors time to prepare as well. If you start a chase, place a trap at the only exit and repeat this 10 times they're going to die no matter what. You can't disarm traps mid chase without a teammate. He would just create the issue that hag has.
With the release of the Knight, the last thing we need is another zoning killer. All the strategy of Trapper is going to die because people will just use the easy chase strategy with 10 traps on hand. With every zoning killer, you COULD run away, but you will eventually get cornered or run into a dead zone. It's a no skill play style because you're just not even playing the game. You're forcing people to give you hits regardless of what they do. Buffing him to be more chase orientated is exactly the problem with the Knights release we got. The strategic part is gone and traded for a brute force chase play style.
Not being able to pick up the traps is what prevents this. It's an add-on for veterans of Trapper who know what they're going to do when they load in. I think we should have more add-ons like it in concept. You gain something very valuable but with a draw-back, so you must use it intelligently.
Not even close to accurate of how Trapper games play out. Unless the Trapper gets basement and wants to secure a measly 1 kill, they can't just lock down an area with no chance of rescue. Either the whole team goes in and can easily get the person out, or they leave them on hook and 3 get out. If you have a problem with that, I look forward to hearing your thoughts on camping Leatherface.
This is all assuming he gets a down, which could be after 1 gen is done, or 4. But what you're saying, that him doing the exact same thing after having to pick up each trap is fine, makes no sense. He's at an instant disadvantage from having to pick up all his traps, and then is in the same scenario as before which you describe as unhealthy. What changed? A killer's supposed to be in a losing position before they're allowed to be in a good position, which survivors can still break out from?
The part about locking down loops is also not accurate at all. I've tried playing Trapper that way, placing a trap at every other pallet and window mid-chase, and it never worked out. They just run to the next loop, because there's always another, and they can even cycle back to ones you've already trapped if their teammates disarm them. The pseudo-instadown potential of them getting caught in the traps is strong, but that's why I suggest this: hold W against Trapper when healthy, and only after you're injured try to loop, and that's only assuming you're running to areas where he's had time to set up. But you can't just set down traps at loops mid-chase without teammates coming to disarm.
I don't see the comparison to Knight at all. Neither killer can simply corner you in the map, or "brute force" (that buzzword). Nothing is for free. Trapper can't even have like half the loops covered even with all traps placed, and he has to have all obvious traps, all hidden (but less likely to trigger) traps, or a mediocre mix of the two. Plus they're disarmable and have to be picked up manually, except when you're using the add-on but then you can't pick up traps. Knight's guards are slooooowwww. There's no way you get cornered. Even if he gets a hit on you, that's a sprint burst plus the guard despawns. Then he has to do the whole set-up again, and this is all assuming he never misses on the guard's puny alert range, and him or the guard actually gets a hit. Even if he downs you, the amount of time it took is gonna cost him the game. The time to down is simply too long.
You, like many, overrate that purple Trapper add-on beyond parody. It's having traps on hand so you can use your power right away instead of wasting half the game picking them up. You still have to set a web of traps, and either lose 1-2 gens with Corrupt + the survivors come closer and see your trap placement, or don't use Corrupt and lose 3-4 gens instantly. And bar his traps, which can be seen and disarmed, he's just an M1 killer, so how could anything he does be that problematic?
I'm not going to get into the whole debate about Knight right now because it's not very relevant to the topic.
There is a clip, though, where otzdarva clearly lines out the problems with starting with all of your traps in the early game. I've been looking for it, and if you're interested in seeing it and I can't find it I would ask you to look out for it too. It basically boils down to what I said. If the survivor doesn't run away they are dead. Which leads to very boring counter-play of just running away from loop to loop until you go down. The exact same problem with hag, although worse since you have to go back and pick them up again. Still, being able to have 10 traps at all times leaves no consequence to bad placements. You can just go and pick up 5 on the way back around then do it again.
I've not overrated the add-on to any capacity. I only said it offers a big advantage with a disadvantage. If you go into the match with a plan on where you're going to lock down and play at, then it's a very good add-on for that. Pair it with resetting traps and you basically don't have to worry about them for the rest of the game. On it's own, yes it is a bad add-on. Most add-ons are. It's when you pair it with your build or other add-on's that it will shine.
Just because a killer is weak at their current state doesn't mean all their limitations should be removed, then it creates a new issue with that character and inevitably leads them to getting nerfed again.
"A killer's supposed to be in a losing position before they're allowed to be in a good position, which survivors can still break out from?"
That is the entire game, yes. Survivors start off at their strongest in the early game. They have all their resources and the killer has no pressure. Once the killer depletes their resources and gets hook states on them that's when they start to win. But victory is still never guaranteed. DBD is a constant game of push and pull.
Killers get stronger in end game. With Trapper, you are entirely focused on area denial. You make them play into your hand. So his kit is inherently a risk reward play style. You give up that precious time dedicated to early game pressure for mid to late game pressure. If survivors aren't careful it only takes a handful of mistakes for you to win as Trapper. If you aren't defending areas of the map then you aren't playing Trapper the right way.
The point of this rework concept is entirely to decrease the down-time he has for setting up traps in a fair way. Not removing consequence for bad plays.
I'd be all for a trap that starts closed then sets itself after a few secs
You're not listening. You will not catch someone, doing that. You set a trap at the dropped pallet or window, they run to the next loop, and they can do that virtually without end. You only have 8 traps max I believe, and there's a heck of a lot more loops in any given map than that. This is not even counting disarms which free up those loops again, which almost always happens with SWF, in which case you've already lost the match. You can bait placing a trap at a loop to get them to run early, but even then that's far from a guaranteed hit, because there's a pallet around every corner. You also lose Bloodlust from using your power. Y'all always talk about "no consequences" for things killers can do, and killers "using their power bad" (despite catching people that way?). Where's the consequences for survivors simply playing the game? I'll wait. And if it is, in fact, a killer using their power bad, well then surely they're punished for that and end up losing?
Otz's takes and advice have deteriorated over the years. He's clearly trying to appease survivors by not delving into certain topics of discussion, and being silent or optimistic on a killer nerf. It took Twins getting nerfed for him to actually show compassion for how often killers get nerfed; he actually wondered why they were nerfed. But that's all he gave on that, and nothing more. The biggest thing he refuses to admit though is the reality of unwinnable killer matches, in which you can play perfect and still lose as killer. Not all, but some matches you literally can't change that end result. He just blanket statement says, "If you just play well enough with any killer, you can beat any team." I was shocked that he chose to go that direction. It's like he hasn't learned a thing about killer after years of playing and making 5 hour+ videos.
I really don't think the purple bag needs that downside. Just let the killer place traps. He locks down an area? Cool. That's called using his power. Survivors have the entire map locked down with pallets and windows, without any effort or strategy. This is really silly double standards to keep suggesting that killers NEED a downside to whatever it is they can do, or else "the game's unbalanced." The downside is that no one loadout or decision by the killer can't be countered. There's always something the survivor can do, with minor inconveniences at best, not game-losing downsides. But the killer can take a hike I guess, because god pallets, which they can't do anything at, exist and are considered "fair." Add-ons are not that strong for killer. You often need a pink and a purple together to compete, and shocker, most of those have been nerfed. All-Seeing Blood, Pinky Finger, Engineer's Fang?
And this, I reject entirely: "The killer's better in late game because the survivors are better in early game." No such dichotomy exists. The killer is losing right off the bat, because the survivors are spawned on gens and will be done with ~3 of them in the first 80 seconds. What changes later on that makes survivors weaker or the killer stronger? Because they hooked someone? Cool, now the survivors are only at half efficiency, and are back to full the moment the unhook happens. Even with the quickest possible downs vs average survivors, the killer has nowhere near enough pressure. This can be offset a little bit by gen blockage and slowdown, but then survivors have gen speed boosters, and strong loops that waste a hideous amount of the killer's time. I don't need to explain which one trumps the other in the long run. There's 4 survivors and 1 killer. Nothing he does, off of his own power or good plays, creates enough pressure that the game is suddenly in his favor. Survivor mistakes are essential to that, so if they don't make enough, you just lose by default. You can get rid of some pallets, but you won't get rid of all of them or even most of them without the gens all being done already. You also get nothing, essentially, from hooking people. The survivors only stop being a threat once they're dead and can't help the team progress their objective. Hence why tunneling and camping are the only way. I feel the push alright as killer, but where's my pull? Nonexistent.
The setup you get with Trapper and other killers is in no way worth it. It doesn't even cancel out vs good survivors. You're often not even getting a hit from using your power. And there's no such thing as controlling the map with killer. It's too big and there's way too much going on for them to keep track of. Obviously we've all thought, "Maybe I should get rid of this pallet, or stop this gen from getting done." But it's just that: a thought. You're at the complete mercy of the survivors whether you're able to pull that idea off or not. They don't have to throw down strong pallets, so they can continue to use them. They don't have to ignore a gen. They also have intuition, not just the killer, so they're not gonna let the killer do what he wants to do.
Your idea will not work. It isn't radical enough. Any downtime to pick up traps is too much time. Trapper is simply an M1 killer with traps that work if survivors aren't paying attention, can't see through the grass (however many maps still have grass), or don't have any altruism or intuition in the form of disarming said traps. Your over-emphasis on what's "fair" for the survivors will be a constant cripple on your design. Your assumption that killers NEED consequences for what you THINK are bad plays will do the same. That is survivor-centric thinking which can only create bad killers. Whatever you think makes a killer "OP", take that, implement it, and then aim even higher. Then, perhaps, you'll have a strong killer.
Tbf we already have an addon that does that tho
Yeah you cant pick them back up but thats meant to be the downside
Lol man you guys seem to take "winning" as killer too seriously
Idrc if im getting genrushed especially if i have rancor and nemesis, yeah the other 3 escape but i didnt really care about them in the first place 😂 they can just watch my mori and go
It doesn't need that downside. It should be base. Imagine being locked to 1 hatchet with Huntress until you go around the map picking others up. I'm not talking about reloads, I'm talking about max capacity, how much you can use your power. It's really outrageous people justifying Trapper having to pick up his traps all around the map. There's no time for him to do that; that's why you never see him.
In my opinion the main issues for the trapper are:
-> He needs time to setup early in the game. This is sadly during the time when disturbing survivors is most valuable. Once survivors need time to heal, unhook etc., their progress slows exponentially. If you are not effective early in the game you are massively behind.
-> His power is usually not worth the time to set up. Compared to other killers powers it can be avoided, countered and has the tendency to overall be very bad once you play experienced hight rank survivors.
-> Distant traps are borderline useless and rarely lead to any advantage/hooking.
-> His traps and his seutp are very vulnerable to SWF sabotage - thus making him probably the single worst killer against SWF groups.
Here is an idea how to make the trapper more interesting:
-> I have always thought that it might be interesting to have the option to pre-trap maps. Like having a prepared trap-layout for each map. (that you could place in a custom game and save) I mean it does make sense that a trapper would already have traps in his domain. This would a) remove the setup-time and b) be a nasty surprise if you step into one before seing a trapper.
-> I think 5 pre-set traps could make a huge difference.
Similar to how the Deathslinger reloads, the trapper should arm his traps on his person, then just set down already armed traps. This would allow the trapper to get a bit more mobility into trap placing. Both of the traps he carry should already be armed, and reloading reloads all currently carried traps
Escaping from traps on your own should also without addons give a basekit sloppy butcher (Mangled, Hemorrhage, and incomplete heals drain the bar) and having a team mate help you out makes it so you don't get this. Possibly even deep wound since this is also an addon
I also think this may/may not be controversial, but I think his Bloody Coil addon should just be basekit, or disarming traps should at least have a chance to injure the player, and then the addon makes the chance 100%
By default, traps in the map are disarmed, they should just be armed by default, because why not. Current random trap placements I think should also be re-evaluated to be put in better places