Valik
Valik
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The only change I'd put forward is that the Cenobite shouldn't break his own chains.
The Box's aura should also be on a transparency scale relative to the chain hunt, so it's a but less as visually significant at 0-1%, can be found if sought after just as easily early on, but isn't as glaring at first.
Additional Hooks spawned by his power should not be instant, but should be spawned and fired as a Chain Hunt would.
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Isn't the Black Veil that place in Wolfenstein ?
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DH is currently being employed by more players than pre-nerf DS.
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I hope they killswittch it for a test weekend.
The data would prove most interesting.
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The Nightmare needs a total rework.
Right now, he is boring and drab - devoid of all creativity.
Someone needs to get in there and inject some insanity into the killer to make him one of the most creative ones in the game.
I'd rather he was bad and super fun to play as/against than to have his alpha numerics up in the stratosphere levels of strength and have him stay super boring.
As it stands, The Nightmare is not Freddy Kruger. Freddy is a killer with wild imagination and unbridled insanity. What we have in the game is just a shadow of as much.
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Here are some (More than the requested amount, I'm a rebel, you can't stop me)
The Jacket - Hotline Miami
The Gravekeeper - Pet Sematary 2
The Xenomorph - Alien
The Predator - Predator
The Diver - Bioshock
The Prodigy - Bioshock 2
The Candyman - Candyman
The Animatronics - Five Nights At Freddy's
The Machine - Terminator
The Revenant - Friday The 13th
The Child - F.E.A.R.
The Mimic - Mimic
The Golem - Frankenstein
The Writer - The Shining
The Anomaly - Slenderman
The Shadow - Us
The Dog - Cujo
The Necromorph - Dead Space
The Butcher - The Evil Within
The Mistress - Resident Evil 8
The Wendigo - Until Dawn
The Psycho - Norman Bates
The Shrink - Silence Of The Lambs
The Doll - Child's Play
It - It
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I know this is a thread from yesteryear, but Ii'm going to revive it because I'd love some clarity.
I, for one, have absolutely no idea what anyone here is saying. Not only are many people flat out coming out and talking about No Mither as some sort of powerful perk, but the rest are often garnering concessions to say that it is only occasionally a powerful pick.
I really don't understand where any of this is coming from, it's almost as if everyone here is playing a completely different game than the one I've been avidly devoting my time to for the past 3 years.
Like, every single point I see people bring up to discuss No Mither as some sort of good pick is completely beside every fundamental reality of the game. must be missing something.
There have been 12 points brought up in this thread alone, and I honestly do not understand the concepts behind any of them because they are contrary to everything I've come to know from my 1,500+ hours of experience and thousands of hours watching content creators over the years.
- "it's a good perk for people who think the game is too easy" this is a very misguided debate, because it takes for granted that there are neither different challenges one could employ on one's self, nor a more eloquent - and perhaps less punitive - means of which to challenge a player. One could just as easily lower repair and vault speeds by 20% to make the game 'more challenging' - but that does not mean that it, by merit, is a good concept or should exist. Just because something makes the game more difficult does not mean that it has merit. One could just as easily bring other garbage perks or no perks to find a challenge in the game. Some have suggested not spawning injured, but becoming broken by the first instance of damage. This could be rendered redundant by the interjection of choice. A player could simply abstain fro healing to challenge themselves. Making the game more challenging does not make something, by merit, good,
- "Protection Hits! You can waste the killer's time by diving in front of teammates!" But it is not wasted time. You just hard traded. Any survivor can do this without No Mither. As keenly observed, killers cannot slug to continue the chase and must hook you - true. However, you exchanged hooks, which is invariably the same as preforming such an action without the perk if not worse still. if healthy you could potentially take two protection hits to the same end. In addition, this is such a convoluted and highly situational feat that could - ideally - only ever find its own employment twice in a match. In a trial where the killer's objective is to hook survivors as many times as possible, forcing the killer to hook you is hardly a consolidation. Hooks are extremely detrimental to the survivor team - they can cut the repair efficiency of the team by more than half and can allow the killer to slow the momentum of the survivors if not seize it absolutely. Giving the killer an easy hook that they cannot turn down is like cackling that you gave your worst enemy exactly what they wanted. When defenders use this point, they often choose to speak as though they can take a hook - and another survivor cannot. However, using such a trash perk that is displayed to the killer is a very easy way to get yourself tunneled out of the game instead. Any perk that's greatest use is "Hah! Now you have to kill me!" in a game where your opponent's job is to kill you - you're not doing much for the team. Even in this extremely fringe and ideal situation, such an accomplishment is nothing you cannot accomplish better without No Mither equipped.
- "You can pick yourself up off the ground! Unlimited Unbreakable!" Slow down there, scout. No killer is going to leave you on the ground unless they are letting you go free out of pity. They can see that you're broken and they know what that means. This aspect of the perk is not a buff, it is a mutual destruction signal. The 'revive self' part of the perk means that the killer is NEVER going to leave you on the ground, but will ALWAYS pick you up as soon as possible. Unless the killer intends to let you go, or frankly doesn't care about you and is fine with you taking a 30 second timeout, they're going to pick you up and walk you to a hook. And all of those hilarious trolls that think they're doing the Lord's work against a 4 slug, all the killer has to do is save one of you for last and stand on top of you - even if they hit you over and over, it takes time to recover. You're not doing yourself any favors. Picking yourself up once with Unbreakable is far, far, far more powerful than No Mither. Soul Guard can accomplish the same feat in many circumstances without forcing the killer to pick you up. You will basically never see any value out of the perk as a slug build - but if you do, it's because the Killer is more than likely taking pity on you or giving you a chance because of the horrendous nature of the perk.
- "You're so sneaky, leaving no blood trail can turn you into a ghost that no killer can pinpoiint!" Except 2 things: 1.) Killers don't often rely on blood pools any more than they rely on crows. The preferred method of tracking other than direct line of sight would be scratch marks. Scratch marks tell killers everything they need to know just by being there - if there are scratch marks, you're running; if there are no scratch marks, you're hiding somewhere nearby. You're not going to lose the killer in chase because there aren't any small red blobs beneath the bright neon red carpet that points to your location. While it may come in handy in very particular and stringent circumstances - it almost never will. Hide in a locker and pray to Jesus in heaven that the Killer doesn't see the little droplets of blood and think to yourself 'oh my, why didn't I take No Mither?!" No, because survivors very rarely hide in lockers so imminently, and often when they do - the killer can hear the squeaky hinges and deduce as much. Leaving no blood is not a selling point of the perk because it hardly does enough to conceal your location beyond what a competent killer is going to find regardless. 2.) Lucky Break, Parental Guidance, and Off The Record exist. Blood suppression is not a point No Mither has in its favor.
- "If the killer leaves you on the ground, you will be impossible to find with no blood trail!" But you still make noise anyhow. Killers rely more heavily on the sound than the blood to find you out anyway. The groans while Dying are reduced, but not muted. The killer is still going to find you if they return to the same general area. But remember - the killer isn't going to leave you on the ground anyway - because they can clearly see that you brought No Mither and want/need to be hooked. You're not a stealth slug, you're a hooked slug. The entity isn't going to care if your "Sacrificed" screen leaves a blood trail or not.
- "It adds variety to the matches, making them a lot more interesting!" Survivors take the same 12-18 perks when they have over 100 to choose from. No Mither isn't the sea salt caramel that we're all pining for. You want to dazzle a killer and your teammates with Variety? Go Red Herring, Solidarity, Repressed Alliance, and/or Blood Pact. Not only do these perks rarely see the light of day, but they do a lot more to help your team and make the match more interesting than No Mither ever could, and that's just to name a few. There are over 60 perks that, if brought into a match, would breath a lot of variety into the game without ruining the fun for everyone else who qued up with you.
- "This perk can make the killer focus on you and try to chase you down! You become public enemy #1 and can loop them forever!" That would be a good point, aside from two things: any killer worth their salt isn't going to go out of their way to attack you, especially not first. You cannot make a safe hook-run with this perk and you don't have to waste time healing, so chasing you first is sub-optimal. Unless the killer catches you out, they're likely going to save you for last - as the riskier the plays get as the trial draws long, the more detrimental your perk becomes. Unless you give them an easy open to the chase, they likely aren't going to prioritize you over anyone else. Quite literally, the killer gains no bonus slowdown or pressure by hooking you while everyone else is healthy - as all available survivors can go for the hook, and they don't even have to bother healing you! It's better to save you for later so that they can draw you into a disadvantaged zone or pull you into risky positions for the 1-hit down. But, even so, let's say that everything goes according to plan and the killer thinks you easy prey, why is No Mither the better perk for the chase? If you are such a strong looper that you can extend a chase for eons - then why is No Mither the best choice? Wouldn't it be better to have an empty perk slot and T-bag at the killer to get their attention? You could accomplish the same ends by different means - a flashlight with annoying clicky-clicks and T-bagging until the killer comes over and smacks you is literally the same exact thing, but wastes more of the killer's time and doesn't require a perk slot or the massive drawbacks. The perk betrays such an intention by working against your interests, it prevents you from capitalizing on it, it doesn't help you if you're good in chase, and it doesn't do anything that the crouch key doesn't already do for you.
- "No Mither allows you to become the tunneled survivor when the killer tries to tunnel someone else!" So, jumping into the fray to keep the killer from tunneling someone can be a good thing, yes. But don't you think it would be better to take a protection hit while healthy than to become the next tunnel? No only could the killer easily leave you so that your friends can pick you up, but even if the killer chooses to make you their new target, what all is that going to accomplish more than taking 2 protection hits wouldn't do better? Either you're in a position where the killer cares if you get up, or they don't. If it's late in the trial and the killer is gunning for that tunnel, why would they care if you go down? You have to spend 20-30 seconds getting back up anyhow and your friends are going to run off of generators to pick you back up, you just handed the killer a win-win they wouldn't have had if you were healthy. On top of it all, the killer could go right back to tunneling and, if they're lucky, they can still pick you up for a cheeky hook on the side. If it's early enough in the match that the killer isn't dedicated - swapping at the hook may make you their new target, but that isn't exactly playing to the strengths of your team, and could backfire very easily. The perk being the 'I'm a pro at hanging on the hook' is not a selling point. In addition, you could better and more effectively accomplish this with For The People: unhook and press E on them then run at the killer. It's not a play that you couldn't accomplish with other tools.
- "This perk allows me to use Dead Hard and Resilience by default!" This, hilariously enough, is the best argument. You can use DH to get away from a T3 Michael or a Cannibal chainsaw first thing, and you get a cheeky 9% buff to repair. But when you realize that most survivors can play super well without being constantly injured, and that you just used 2 entire perks to shave ~8s off of a generator when you could have saved more time by taking a hit while healthy. The ability to use everyone's favorite crutch perk, Dead Hard, whenever desired is very good - but when your entire reasoning behind using a perk is because using your 'everything proof shield' in extremely particular circumstances justifies not having a health state on top of your 'everything proof shield' is pretty bad. You might as well argue that this perk could counter The Shape because the killer can't stalk you for Tier3 if they already killed you in Tier2. It's very weak.
- "This perk makes 1 shot abilities redundant! The Exposure effect doesn't matter with No Mither!" So by giving the killer exactly what they want, they can't take exactly what they want ? That would be like arguing that you can't be mugged if you already gave the criminal all of your money. In the end of the day, you may not be getting exposed/mugged in essence, but you're still going to die/have-no-money. When a cannibal is squaring up against you, the fact he can use his M1 OR his Chainsaw gives him more of an advantage. Just because you feel slightly less pressure doesn't inform the killer's choice. Chainsaws and Exposure are intended to put you down in 1 hit. If you make it so that you go down in one hit by default, your opponent is going to laugh all the way to the bank.
- "It's Bully Squad heaven! Bring it with your friends and run the killer wild!" You wanna know the worst thing about bully squads? They are most volatile when everyone clambers for the saves. Those bully squads that line up to take protection hits for hooks are spending a lot of time off of generators and are very eager to trade precious health states that will betray them later on in the trial. When you bring No Mither, you have made those bully moments far more volatile. Your allies may be able to troll a killer by swarming you and making the killer prove a hard choice of picking you up or letting you revive... except the killer will quickly realize this and search around. Just because you can self revive doesn't mean it's dangerous. A killer can just as easily hit you once you stand up again. No flashlight saves are going to keep you from being hooked after your friends go for some sabotages and take a few hits. To a killer, hooks are time. To a survivor, generators are time. If you have an orchestra of teammates swarming around you to deny your hook - you're wasting generator time and are trading down with health states and resources. Off of a single No Mither squad, the killer can accomplish multiple downs and still manage to get one or more hooks. Trying to sweep in for the save in these situations is the #1 way SWF bully squads backfire. Worst thing is, this can be accomplished BETTER without No Mither. Without, you can be healed up and help your friends when THEY go down - and use that perk slot for basically anything better like Unbreakable, Flip Flop, Boil Over - all superior options. Not only does this perk fail to help these situations in any way that other perks cannot do themselves, but you should be actively avoiding these all-or-nothing saving throws as survivor, not betting everything on them.
- "There always has to be that one bad part of something, which means No Mither must exist - to give contrast to what's good!" Not only would Gestalt disagree, but basically anyone in design, engineering, or production would too. A machine strives for every part to be the best, and to serve a purpose. There is no part of a greater body that should seek to be the least useful. Everything in the known world - through both establishments in all religions and through the principals of evolution - point to the antithesis of this thought. There does not always have to be the bad one in a system. If BHVR was bought by Elon Musk tomorrow and he chose to make each and every perk fun and viable, by golly they could do it. By a combination of poor design and the active choice of the developers to make a 'Hard mode' challenge perk, this one has become the pariah. It is not a bad perk because there is a necessity for something to be bad in any given system. There is no evidence in reality or even gaming to suggest that this is some form of logical rule or reasonable expectation to hold.
- "This perk is very strong with X and/or X perk!" If you have to mix and match other perks to find value, does it really matter in the end? Flip Flop and Power Struggle are both good on their own, but enjoy increased usefulness when put together. Streetwise, Botany Knowledge, and Built To Last can keep an medkit in play - but when used together they greatly increase it potency. The problem with perks is what can be called called 'elective exclusivity'. You have a finite amount of choices, and many options to choose from. When you use more than one perk to accomplish a means, it must earn its keep by a multiple. But the truth is, all of the perk combinations and 'synergies' listed out for No Mither are not noteworthy nor exclusive. "Iron Will makes you always silent!" But Iron will always does that, and No Mither's only contribution is that it always hurts you. "Resilience will make chases and actions faster!" but it will do that with or without No Mither, the only thing NM does in this situation is place you on second square on the road to losing faster - like a killer bringing a new perk "All the Mither" which instantly completes all generators at the beginning of the trial 'it has great synergy with NOED' - but who cares? You were going to have better value from NOED without it anyway. Just because you attach something circumstantially useful to a bad thing doesn't mean it's generally useful. If your favorite mug helps you get through a bad day at work, equipping the new perk 'Work Mither' to make you have a bad day at work EVERY DAY doesn't mean that you net more value from your mug. If a perk gives you $15 - using the perk that puts you $5 in debt isn't exactly the clutch perk that's fully realizing the innate value of the former by fusing it with the latter. Iron Will, Resilience, Blood Pact, Dead Hard, Desperate Measures, Flip-Flop, Soul Guard, Unbreakable - these perks have value that they contribute to a match. No Mither does not, directly nor indirectly, make these perks more valuable than if you spawned healthy and could be healed.
Given these aspects, I have no idea how people can talk as though it is even a viable option in a match. Is it that low-tier killers falter and fail to understand the perk? is it that users are used to going against low MMR killers that lose them in chase and are impotent in their abilities?
What is the logic behind the praise that this perk is getting? I truly do not understand it once bit.
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@xBlitzAce1989x said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2953716#Comment_2953716
Nope not that map either. It's Ormond. It's not 100% guaranteed but it works at least 75% of the time. I don't run the build to be a jerk either. Matchmaking has been absolutely terrible for the past few months and I'm usually on my own unless I'm playing in Co-op. Dying on first hook because people are too busy hiding in corners gets old after awhile... and two days ago I was slugged and left to die on another map. Two Survivors decided to work with the Killer and completely ignored me (I 100% reported them all.)
Sounds like low MMR hell. I've been there too, man
Hmmm... Ormond. I guess I could see that work in very particular situations!
Do you go to corners or the upstairs of the main building to maximize value?
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I happen to agree with this 100%
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DH should make players Broken for 40 seconds in addition to Exhausted - and make it so that the perk cannot be reactivated until restored to full health.
At that point, at the very least, you can leave a DH user and have confidence that they've burned their card. If they want to use it again, they're going to have to wait 40 seconds and THEN heal up.
It would still be strong, but at least you won't feel the need to push on with a chase if you see them use it - they traded their ability to use it again as well as their ability to heal up for their escape.
And for the rest of the match, if you keep pressure on their team and prevent them from using healing items and perks - you can deny its use.
Survivors get to keep their boring crutch perk.
Killers get enough guarantee of value to leave chase and can pressure the perk out of use.
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As a Nemesis main, I must firmly disagree. I find Nemesis to be one of the most engaging, entertaining, and balanced killers on the roster.
While he hast to hit survivors 1-2 more times over the course of the game, once he gets out of tier 1 - he can pop hits like candy. Asking a Nemi player to get 4-8 additional tentacle hits over the course of the match isn't asking much, especially when you're one of the strongest anti-loop pallet-muncher killers in the game and have access to free information and pressure through zombies.
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Gotta love it.
Truth is, players like this aren't even representative of actual survivor mains. The entire Us vs Them thing is toxic from all sides - but it is quite humorous to find the same people that were filled with such confidence from the survivor sided meta from just a few weeks ago running scared from the least intimidating killer buff this game has ever seen.
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A road map with focuses on massive health and gameplay overhauls with a huge focus on perk reworks.
Things like new skins, maps, and interaction items with killer overhauls would be sweet, sure.
But coming out and saying "We intend to fix all of the strong and lame perks to make them all equally fun and useful" would have my heart racing.
If they said -
"We're having a little test, we're killswitching Dead Hard and NOED for 3 days and are going to be releasing a ton of data from our analytics team for the community to review"
I'd literally but the Ringu DLC and call out from work to play the game every day and be pouring over those stats.
The game needs very strong, direct, and passionate direction changes from the top down - and a very strong communication towards the community with an emphasis on transparency.
I'm very glad that the company doesn't crunch - but they should consider an autumn crunch with an extended Christmas leave.
BHVR, know it or not, is about to have one of their most important anniversary events in their history.
They don't just need a good DLC chapter.
What they need is a strong DLC chapter, followed up with a powerful PTB release of a health update -
followed up with a salvo of communication releases showing concepts that they are testing out -
followed up with a community update with some perk changes, tons of bugfixes, some free cosmetics and a new rollout for Bill, with a new map to try out their latest experiments on - followed by a powerhouse licensed DLC -
followed up by a month of bug fixes and community chats about their experiments with constant killswitch weekends and tests - followed up by a Hag/Ace update with a complete killer overhaul, reworks to totems - luck - Chest searching - map offerings - the Backwater Swamp maps - and 7 perks -
then the team can release a little bugfix and post a skeleton crew for a month during an extended vacation time in preparation for the January announcements for the winter Chapters.
June - Anniversary Event with new DLC, party lasts all month. Team gears up for the next few months with pre-production.
July - Massive bugfix health patch on PTB. Tweaked all month to perfection. Tome closes. Teams begin laying groundwork for the projected releases over the next 5 months.
August - The Entity Grows mid-chapter Bill/Health update is released.
September - Licensed Chapter release. Rapid-fire follow up patches throughout the month to prevent a CoH repeat. New Tome system rollout.
October - Tons of testing days and weekends with communications on said tests (Repeat the massive popularity of the MMR tests)
November - Against All Odds mid-chapter Hag/Ace update hits PTB
December - Release the update in its stable form and host a very simple winter event. Tome closes with a little New-Years eve bonus login event. Staff gets extended leave. Hit the ground running in January.
If they had a meeting in the next week and started making solid plans at the top level - this would not be too difficult to accomplish.
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Someone needs to create a list of all the things BHVR promised and never followed up on.
I'd love to see it - not only out of morbid curiosity, but because some of the issues are long dead and are relics to the past.
I started playing in 2019 and I'm still learning about QoL changes that were promised 2 entire years before I even picked up the game.
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It's because they are both tied to the active ability button.
Pro-Tip - don't use perks with conflicting active ability buttons in general.
However, it should take into consideration your build order (Left to right)
If Repressed Alliance is in front of Blast Mine, it SHOULD block the generator and preserve your mine.
However, if you equipped blast mine before RA, you're basically telling the code to place the blast mine 0.0001s before activating Repressed Alliance.
I believe this is the kind of issue that can be solved by equip order - but if it isn't fixing the issue, that alone needs to be resolved.
This is an example of why a video game should try and use more than 4-5 input buttons.
Controllers have more than 20, keyboards have dozens and dozens.
As it stands, survivors have (other than movement) Shift to run, Ctrl to crouch, M1 to interact, M2 to use items, and E to activate abilities.
In other games you have 1,2,3,4,5,6,q,f,r,t,z,x,c,alt,m,p,l,j,tab,tilda,mesothelioma,etc.
This is exactly the kind of issue the devs have sadly written themselves into with their 'simplistic' design philosophy. You can see the same sort of issues with the Twins where deploying Victor and charging his M2, but it moves to Ctrl when he's out.
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I'm a Nemesis Main too!
CONTAMINATION AND VACCINE
I had no idea that this was a lag issue for people! I have a pretty beefy PC and a good router that Xfinity only betrays when it feels like it - so I don't see this issue on my end. This should be resolved, though, I had no idea players were encountering such issues!
ZOMBIES AND AI
Too true. Zombies are a nice aid at times, but more often than not they're in corners or failing to pressure survivors in loops while only getting in my way. The abundancy of flashlights also renders them moot in many trials.
ADD-ONS
STARS field manual should give zombies a little 'lunge' to their attacks. Zombie Movement speed items (Intestine, Eye, Ink Ribbon, Badge) should give slightly lower bonus to their patrol speed and slightly higher bonus speed to their pursuit (I.E. Instead of +0.5m/s | +0.4 m/s patrol +0.6m/s upon seeing a survivor). Zombie Heart and Tyrant gore should be a flat +1, T-Virus sample should be reworked and cause survivors to become Broken for 30 seconds when hit with the tentacle. Marvin's Blood should be reduced to +0.5, but the base gains from hitting survivors should be increased by +0.5 across the board. Licker Tongue could be extended to 1s to easily make it worth the BP grind. Serotonin Injector should render the Nemesis completely silent (No footsteps!). NE-a Parasite should increase Tentacle range by 1m. Jill's Sandwich should add 1 zombie to the trial. Depleted Ribbon should not remove zombies from the trial, but add +1 to an exit area whenever one is destroyed (up to 5 per gate), Iridescent Badge should increase the time it takes to administer the vaccine and reveal a survivor's aura during and after.
Basically, his items should be given a lot more work to make them interesting. Too many items effect zombies and vaccines when there should be more that modify his tentacle.
NEMESIS POWER
This actually is not a bug, it is part of how his power works. Here's a time-coded example of one of my favorite videos from my favorite content creator on the subject:
https://youtu.be/Jx0EaeZUAU4?t=283UNIQUE PERKS
Lethal Pursuer
I have to disagree, I find that the perk is paramount. While it can find contest with Discordance - it is invaluable when it comes to kick-starting the match and quickly turning the tides on survivors in their most advantageous moments. I do think though, that it would be best if it also reactivated if outside of chase for longer than 90 seconds - which would put an end to stalemate situations and live up to the perk's name.
Hysteria
Agreed. The cooldown is killer. It should be changed to activate whenever a survivor is damaged - and those injured/Dying survivors that gain Oblivious should contaminate other survivors with Oblivious through interaction (Healing, unhooking, etc) with a refreshed timer. If this were the case, a single triggering of the perk can spread across a healthy team regardless and keep players paranoid and aloof to your advances before it's too late. With proper timing, it can easily be sued to perpetuate Obviousness and make the perk actually viable,
Eruption
I think it's pretty good too. However, upping the regression to 9% and removing the cooldown would make it a lot better. It's B tier at best, but I think this tiny change could make it A tier.
CONCLUSION
I agree with you about just about everything and as a fellow Nemi main, I salute you, my friend!
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@xBlitzAce1989x said:
I'm not going to spoil it for you, but CERTAIN builds on CERTAIN maps make No Mither very useful. (No Mither, Soul Guard, Boil Over, Flip-Flop.) It works very well on one particular map and before anyone says it, no, I'm not talking about the RPD. I've run the build multiple times and yes, it works. You need to find the perk combo that works for you. Not anyone perk is completely useless with the right build.
I'm uncertain what reality would have a killer not pick you up instantly upon downing you if they see you with No Mither.
Upon that, if you're running into a no-hook corner in every chase, you're doing more to waste your own time than the Killer's.
Just a guess, but you're probably talking about Erie of Crows, because that map is horrendous in every which way.
@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2953622#Comment_2953622
Well, maybe I wasn’t clear. If your only option to Unbreakable is while broken, you probably would want it to last even longer - and probably stay permanent like it is now. That’s a key feature of the perk right now. So reducing the broken timer for leveling up the perk would be kind of bad. There shouldn’t be an incentive to stay broken, in my opinion. It’s a powerful and bad status effect to have as a survivor.
I’m also not sure if you’re saying the endurance would last 16 seconds from taking a protection hit? If so, that’s kind of a bad trade off to be broken for a long time.
The idea with the change would be to incentivize players to heal up to activate their ability to become broken on a protection hit, which would grant them Endurance for 16 seconds.
The synergy with other perks as well would make it a powerful addition to certain builds. Healing an ally with For The People and gaining Endurance, for example - or having Deliverance grant Endurance for a risky self-unhook. Renewal + No Mither would give you an extended BT when Unhooked.
But you'd have to heal up to find use. It's very difficult to use well - but it at least has function.
It is not an incentive to stay broken but is, rather, a very strong incentive to heal up once the timer expires.
It also is a flat buff against certain killers and perks.
Plague cannot full-infect you in chase and then swing for a hit. Weighty Rattle on Twins will allow you to tank a hit within 16 seconds of getting pounced on with Victor. Legion Pin Legion can't 5th hit you if they tried.
Hilariously, if someone used For The People on you after getting hit by a Rusted Chains Cannibal - you get away scot free.
By allowing players to heal up at certain times and granting them Endurance in particular circumstances, it can become a game changer.
Especially in end-game trades. Taking a protection hit at the hook can very easily place the killer in a lose-lose situation if you bring BT.
By allowing players to - in certain circumstances - ace the killer with this perk given the tradeoff of spawning injured and having to heal in very specific circumstances, it can be both powerful as well as challenging to employ.
No Mither, in absolutely no reasonable way, is a slug perk.
If there was a little 'Bill' icon beside the portrait of every single Survivor with Unbreakable equipped, no self-respecting killer would ever let you hang around on the ground. They're going to pick you up.
No Mither, is not designed to give a bonus to slugs. It is designed to force the killer to hook and kill the person who took the perk. The idea of the perk is - you always go down in 1 hit and you don't get any second chances. It's a challenge, not a bonus.
So long as you are broken, you will be able to recover - true.
But the only way to find value out of this is to place ambiguity onto the perk from the Killer's perspective.
If the perk made a player ALWAYS 100% able to pick themselves up, they won't be slugged in the least, because a killer will understand and see as much.
If the Broken status effect is timed, however, a Killer may take the risk and gamble that the 30 seconds or so it takes to pick yourself up may wait out the timer. By placing a timer on the perk that killers cannot see, there will be many more interactions where the killer may underestimate how much time remains on the broken effect and slug a survivor only to see them revitalize to the injured state.
Without the ambiguity of a timer, there will be virtually no instances where a killer is going to leave you on the ground.
If the timer is too short, killers may leave you on the ground often - but you wont be able to revive.
If the timer is too long, you will reliably be able to revive - but killers aren't going to let you do it.
There has to be a happy middle ground where killers will often feel misplaced confidence or take their reasonable chances while survivors that bring the perk will find certain instances where they can find Unbreakable value from the perk.
However, the design to allow players to self-revive perpetually is not at all a bonus of the perk, it is part of its 'Hard mode' detriment. Replicating the perpetual Broken and perpetual self-revive makes the perk markedly worse for players - especially when compared to others.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2953166#Comment_2953166
It doesn’t work, because base recovery takes 30.4 seconds - which you would already be recovered from the broken status, even if you somehow went immediately down at the start of the trial. You would actually want a longer broken status to gain the ability to pick yourself up from the dying state, which makes it counterintuitive to have a shorter broken duration for higher tiers.
The bonus BP wouldn’t work either, because there’s always the possibility that other survivors would die and/or escape before you - therefore not being calculated into their final scores. Unless they somehow programmed that.
Would 120/90/60 second initial and 60 second broken on protection hit make it better?
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@ReverseVelocity @Zachcjjj @GoshJosh @Sumnox
My esteemed comembers of the community and No Mither
What do you think of this incarnation of the perk:
~
Description: “You can shake off even the roughest punishment when you’re pushed.”
Begin the trial injured and Broken for 90/60/30 seconds.
While Broken, gain the ability to revive self from the Dying state and gain Endurance for 16 seconds.
Escaping and Surviving the trial grants all other survivors +100% Bloodpoints.
Once restored to full health, this perk activates:
Taking a protection hit while Healthy causes you to become Broken for 30 seconds.
Upon recovering from the Broken status, this perk deactivates.
Flavor-text: “’He lamped me good before I could do so much as stand. Didn’t let up neither. Just kept throwin’ himself at me ‘til I was on the ground. Didn’t expect me to get back up so fast, lost him some good teeth for the trouble.’ – David King”
~
Once you are healed, the next time you are Broken, you gain Endurance.
You basically get Borrowed Time+ If you take a protection hit.
The tradeoff is that you start injured and the killer knows what you're up to.
You give your allies a bunch of BP if you make it out alive, though.
By causing survivors to spawn into the match injured and unable to heal - and punishing them with prolonged injury and less pressure upon taking protection hits, this perk retains its ‘Challenge Mode’ doctrine and promotes extremely dangerous and foolhardy behavior to those who take it. Keeping in the spirit of David’s defensive and patently dangerous take on altruism allows this perk to generate high stock for survivors that are able to work around it. By granting Endurance in particular circumstances, killers will be encouraged to tunnel the No Mither user to remove the threat of the perk from the game - but will find them difficult to hold down when used in conjunction with certain killer interactions as well as synergies with other survivor perks. While there is potential to force powerful situations, this perk has the potential to backfire horribly, which also makes it less attractive for certain team types. Granting bonus bloodpoints to allies allows it not only to act as a consolidation ‘Sorry I spawned injured and possibly screwed everything up’, but it’s also a great incentive for good-willed players to bring the perk into the trial.
Thoughts?
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/323390/no-mither-no-way
No Mither is the bane of Plague and Legion funnily enough. Like, it messes with your expectations so hard.
I wouldn't say it's the 'bane' of their playstyle. Those two killers are designed to keep players injured and waste their time by forcing them to mend or drink from fountains.
While the Plague wont get many (if any) fountains from a No Mither player, they will still contaminate their friends, and the Legion still wastes the player's time with mending.
In thew end, you're going up against anti-heal killers with the inability to heal. You're not doing anything but exactly what they want you to do in the first place. It's like having an 'Always Oblivious' perk against a stealth killer. Just because it's redundant to a degree doesn't mean you're countering them. Ya know?
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What are some creative changes you'd like to see to make the perk better, @GoshJosh ?
What would make you say 'Hmmm... maybe I'll bring this from time to time' instead?
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I voted - it's 10/10.
Gotta love the split.
I play Survivor too - almost half the time now - but I prefer killer. Would play a lot more if killer gameplay was allowed to be fun or engaging instead of DeadHard Simulator 2022.
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It will turn into matches playing out the same - until they put some variety in their titles.
More than 60% of their content is relegated to the shadows.
Matches play out the same because it's the same killers with the same powers with the same offerings going against the same survivors with the same perks on the same maps.
Killer powers | Offerings | Maps | Perks
Until these are shaken up, the game will invariably play out identically each and every time. The dev team should probably focus on the monotony and stomp it out.
It is better to have a fun game that is slightly imbalanced than have an unfun and stagnant game that's imbalanced anyway.
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if they nerf legion, they will probably just add a stacking debuff to Feral Frenzy timer on consecutive hits to make accomplishing the 4th hit in the chain a bit harder. Lowering the power timer by 1-2 seconds per hit would make Legion less frustrating to counter without breaking the bank.
All said and done, the major problem is how silly people are with Legion.
Spoiled rotten by the healing meta that dropped last November, survivors keep insta-mending in front of Legion and skulking away to heal with CoH or self-care ( P L E A S E D O N T D O T H I S I F Y O U W A N T T O S U R V I V E ). To make matters worse - not only are noob survivors lousy in chase, making Legion far more potent against baby players who find the outlook of rivaling a Legion neigh helpless, but Dead Hard has completely spoiled survivors to the bone. Not only have survivor mains been coddled into believing their Dead Hard will allow them to play aggressively, but CoH and the recent healing meta has taught them to spend time healing. Most survivors don't know how to loop effectivley without using Dead Hard or Sprint Burst as a fundamental tool in chase to allow them to take hits, swap hooks, and turn 2 health states into 3.
Now you dropped a hyper aggressive anti-healing early game bully into the game.
Survivors have been taught to heal, taught to fly in the face of the killer. And now the killer punishes survivors who fly in their face and wins games when survivors spend time healing. They don't know how to play pallets or windows well because - well - they really haven't had the need to.
We're right back to where we were a few years ago when Plague came out. But at least when Plague came out - it was in the midst of the slowdown meta.
Right now, I'm sure that a lot of players that picked the game up last year are scratching their heads and wondering how to play the game against Legion.
Legion is not terribly strong, but Survivors have been trained in the exact wrong playstyle to win against them. Legion is an amalgamation of 4 bullies. They are, by trade, the anti-bully killer. And here we stay, a Survivor community that has been invariably rewarded for the past few years and encouraged to bully the killer. Now that they can't - it almost doesn't seem right. Legion, in this way, is a betrayal to all the wrong lessons that they have learned from the game over the past year and a half.
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It's a great niche build, but you're removing 4 powerful perks from yourself and giving them to your team.
The majority of the perks are not even that strong.
The annoying factor is how the killer can't really do much about it other than tunnel you out of the game.
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@GoodBoyKaru is correct.
https://youtu.be/Jx0EaeZUAU4?t=284Time-coded to the part where Otz explains as much!
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I appreciate the recognition, my friend!
I love your creativity here - having a period of debuffs as recompense for generators being completed is a very creative approach and I'd love to see it in the game in some form.
Love your posts - Keep it real!
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@shivermetimbers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2950490#Comment_2950490
Explain the chart to me love
We know 7 things from the chart:
1.) These are concurrent players, an aggregate of traffic. It is not total players - but how many are playing at any given time. It is not a sum total, but it is a massive sign of new player convergence and retention as well as a basic litmus for community health. (You probably already knew this, I digress)
2.) The Pandemic locked people inside and encouraged them to play games more frequently. In March 2020 the numbers began to rise and the alpha began to decline in Summer 2021, as evidence by how rapid the decline was in September.
3.) Summer season and Anniversary events are massive community builders and the hottest point of the year for DBD.
4.) Whenever a popular IP is licensed, player convergence / retention goes up. Resident Evil was, by far, one of the most popular DLCs in the game's history.
5.) The controversial and botched launch of MMR was the first of a series of blunders that plagued the latter quarters of fiscal 2021 and first quarter 2022 which showed a massive bleed in player retention as well as engagement, likely leading to sub-par convergence outside of whales. Boon totems, Artist, Ringu - all served as bad press which dealt a serious blow to the community's faith in BHVR.
6.) 2022 has seen the most aggressive retention efforts from the devs with random blood-hunts, login rewards, constant mini-sales, and much more. We have seen that these do not reverse the falling playerbase, but service - at the very least - to slow things down and retain core members. It is likely that these incentives also increase convergence.
7.) The latest changes to 2 of the lowerst tier killers mixed with the new Pain-Resonance/Dead-Man's-Switch/Pop-Goes-The-Weasel meta has made Killer much stronger, which has seized the decline. Bugfixes and content updates are doing more to turn the tides than blood-hunts ever could.
When we put all of these things together:
At the end of summer 2021 - The Pandemic ended, Resident Evil fans had their fill, there was no massive IP crossover to maintain the momentum, and the devs injected a lot of anti-fun into the game over the next 6 months. Boons and MMR to name a couple.
At second quarter 2022 - Content patches are coming out in the midst of aggressive and ceaseless sales and login rewards.
In the next couple of months, summer will return with the annual Anniversary spike - so we will likely see those numbers begin to climb (Even if it's for just a little while)
While I absolutely agree that the developers have really fumbled the ball and have lost half of their traffic - they're to blame for the Boon totems and the MMR choking out the new players. I'm none too surprised now that the Pandemic is officially over and winter has rolled past that things - hopefully - will stop from freefalling into the Deathgarden.
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@Raptorrotas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2950918#Comment_2950918
Isnt that just the normal us vs them stuff? Different people have different ideas about balance and stuff. And our community is quite split about killer powers, even inside the killer side ( see old freddy vs new freddy).
Just see my version of your post.
- Nurse is strong, compared to other killers.
- Nurse is fine, compared to survivors.
- In the eyes of biased people*, she needs a rework.
- A kink for sure, but not a crime.
* "buff survivors bottom up, nerf top killers"-hypocrisy.
I totally know what you mean - but this is something else.
Us vs Them creates two separate consensus that they pit against one another.
When it comes to Nurse, there is no 'Us' or 'Them' - you can ask 5 different people for opinions and get very different responses.
it's not even split down the middle.
There is no split.
There are no 'sides'
It's all chaos. That's my point.
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IMO a really good non-hex build for him would be something like:
Sloppy Butcher - You only have M1 attacks. This means that if survivors want to take protection hits, make trades, or survive an ambush - they will have to waste more time. If you stop them before they can finish healing, you can waste even more of their precious time.
A Nurse's Calling - With Sloppy, you will be able to find survivors when they are least suspecting you and prevent them from completing their heal. This is a very strong combination, as it also allows you to get the jump on survivors when they think they are safest.
Thrilling Tremors - After finishing a chase, you can slow down survivor movement and make sure that a generator you just defended doesn't get finished right behind you. The best synergy is with your ability to ambush fresh off the hook. After you hook, look around and head towards an unblocked generator with your stealthy super-speed. Thrilling Tremors is valuable information and slow-down that keeps you in the chase and pushes survivors off of generators. It also synergizes well with A Nurse's Calling, as survivors that find their generator blocked may pause for a heal, and unwittingly play into your hands.
MindBreaker / Fearmonger - This is a very practical rebuttal for both information and ambush alike. Not only does it prevent active survivors from seeing your approach via Kindred - but it also allows you to better ambush them, providing a lethal punctuation to the Thrilling Tremors information. As @KurnDisciple said, it prevents use of powerful exhaustion perks - which means after following up on your Thrilling proc, you're in for a smooth chase.
using this build, you can keep survivors wounded and punish them for healing by searching them out with constant information. Your generator efficiency with Thrilling means that once you start chasing survivors, you won't stop - and those health states are going to steal more and more time as you punctuate chases with increasing lethality.
happy hunting!
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@Marigoria said:
I literally just got prime because of it... time to unsub I guess
If you use Amazon regularly, you should keep it.
Prime Video - tons of free stuff on games - and usually get free shipping.
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If it's after individuals have remained without input for over 30-60 seconds, I can see that.
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Map offerings should all have brown versions.
Brown realm offerings exclude that realm from rotation completely. A Brown Haddonfield offering will ensure you never go to Haddonfield.
This trumps all other offerings, because it sets the value to 0.
Green map offerings shouldn't increase the odds of a realm being chosen by 9999% as it does now. Instead, it should simply make a realm 4x more likely to be selected.
This way, green map offerings don't ALWAYS send you to a particular realm, but make it a lot more likely.
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She needs a good overhaul.
1.) Demanifested / Vanishing : Cannot be stunned by pallets while demanifested, can phase through them, much faster vaulting speed. Text to 'Demanifest' is changed to 'Vanish'. can Vanish instantly, but takes slightly longer to Manifest. While demanifested, a greenish teal filter colors the world - which is removed once Manifested. Invisible to survivors outside of 14m, phasing while demanifested is much more drastic and remains for 1.75s upon Manifesting. Slight slowdown while Manifesting without a speed buff. (If you can bypass vaults and pallets while ethereal, you can position yourself better to start a chase - the speed boost could break it)
2.) Lullaby : Volume slightly increased. 2+ Condemnation - lullaby volume is greatly decreased, randomly and infrequently hear the TV teleportation audio as if nearby, film grain and 'static' screen effects occur frequently. 4+ Condemnation - Lullaby is directional but constantly shifting in direction, Much higher frequency of illusory teleportation sound, the player sees phantom Saduko models wandering in the distance from time to time, light/dark/gamma/color values can shift and distort randomly. 6+ Condemnation - Lullaby is constant, survivors will occasionally see a demanifested illusory Saduko approach them when they move their camera to the side, upon looking at a TV for the first time in a minute it will appear and sound as though Saduko is crawling through it.
3.) TV Teleportation : TV's all begin off, turn on when a survivor is within 7-12 meters for longer than 7 seconds. Teleporting to a TV does not turn it off. Teleporting to a TV does not grant Haste, but heavily Hinders nearby survivors. Greatly reduced volume when emerging from a TV. Teleporting has only a 14 second cooldown.
4.) The Tape : In order to disable a TV, survivors must eject a VHS tape from it. The TV is rendered inactive so long as they carry the tape. Once the tape is deposited into the designated TV, both TVs remain inactive for 49 seconds - after which, it reactivates as before. When a survivor deposits the tape, they become immune to accumulating condemnation for a few seconds and are revealed by Killer Instinct for 4 seconds. Tape is a visible item and can be seen in a survivor's hand.
5.) Condemnation : Survivors accrue Condemnation very slowly, but continually, once the trial begins. Holding a tape quickly accrues Condemnation and only a portion of this is refunded upon depositing a VHS tape. When Condemned, survivors are Exposed and are Doomed for 77 seconds. (Doomed causes a survivor to enter the Dying state once the timer ends, but is removed when damaged) Gain a stack of condemnation when hooked.
These changes will make her less of an ambush killer, and more of a confusion killer. Less like the Wraith and more like the Doctor. She'll become less of a powerful chasing agent and far more deadly as a source of paranoia, where unwary survivors may sport a strong early game, but as misinformation and pressure mounts, Condemnation will take its toll. The primary ability of the Ornyo with this incarnation is their incredibly oppressive teleportation, of which the only means to circumvent their playstyle is to take up the tapes and run them. If survivors are careful and regiment their time, they can disable her mobility and become immune to the onslaught of Condemnation for a time - but if they are reckless and fail to become effective soon enough, their limited time in the trial will take its toll.
By giving the Ornyo strong mobility, confusion, and strong end-game pressure - it forces survivors to stop treating the killer like a plaything, and forces them to begin to approach the trial as though the Ornyo is a time management challenge. With a killer who can jump across the map to split pressure, motivate survivors off of generators, and confuse them with mounting visual and audio disinformation - the Ornyo can become fun to play as and against without breaking the balance.
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I really like this.
I think Rummage should be base kit for survivors and rely on Luck to find an item.
It wouldn't be too hard, just have the Rummage action continue endlessly until an item is found. Every 4 seconds of rummaging, the game rolls your luck - on a success, an item is generated. Which also makes luck actually useful.
At that point though, Pharmacy would be best as a Hybrid stealth/healing perk.
~
Description: “You’re used to getting what you need, when you need it”
Unlock Chests 40/60/80% faster.
Noise caused by opening a chest is completely suppressed.
Rummaging through an empty chest heals you (0.75x speed / ~24s) and causes you to recover from negative status effects twice as fast.
Flavor-Text: “‘You can’t just take that, you have no idea what it’s gonna do to you.’ - Nancy Holbrook”
~
This incarnation of the perk would allow chests to become a core utility for the user. Not only would it allow for faster and stealthier unlocking of chests, which has its own merits, but it allows the player to find value in rummaging - which will encourage the user to skulk back to a chest and use it as their own personal ‘Pharmacy’ when the going gets tough. This allows survivor players to have a reason to seek out chests and interact with them, while also making matches more interesting for killers as survivors leave generators and forgo certain healing practices to find value out of this perk. Without becoming incredibly powerful in its own right, the perk suddenly adds a layer of value to a match that neither conflicts with existing healing mechanics, but also doesn’t short circuit conventional gameplay.
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After playing for over 1,500 hours I can count on one hand how many times this would have effected me, and I can't even remember if it's that many.
It would, however, be easily exploited and potentially ruin the game.
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The thing I love about this community is how all-over-the-place it is about the Nurse.
Some people swear she's super strong
Some people swear that she's fine as-is.
Some people swear that she needs a rework.
Some people swear that she's secretly their mother.
There is absolutely no consensus on the Nurse, and that scares me more than anything.
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I have no clue what the heck everyone has against this map.
It can literally be 'fixed' with two tiny changes:
1.) Add a fallen 'I beam' to the forward lobby. It will rest between the two flanking upper walkways and act as a bridge between the two sides for the second floor at the front of the map.
2.) There is a long 'crawlspace' hallway in the back (Between basement on the 'left' side and the interrogation room on the 'right' side to conjoin the two sides in the back on the first floor.
This will take minimal effort and will effectively shrink the map's relative distance without cutting it into two tiny maps or causing a lot of smaller issues. RPD gets to stay faithful to the original with a couple of minor tweaks and the map is made smaller, much more easy to manage for all players involved.
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@Marc_123 said:
Please don´t call these tiny houses maze-like.
But i am also not so sure about the map. The street seems way to big for me and there is not much place to hide.
To be fair, while not 'maze like' in the sense that they are confusing - the amount of walls means that navigating through them has a much higher relative distance than what an initial look may suggest.
@randonly said:
As i said here, i wouldn't mind reducing the number of windows or putting breakable doors (walls) in some houses (and removing the hooks that are on top of the houses, it practically becomes a basement), in exchange for more structures that break the killer's vision in the middle of the street (more than mere small cars or small ambulances that don't do much) and more pallets (some safe and some not) that always appear in the middle of the street (and not depending on RNG for them to appear/spawn on the map).
Honest to goodness, I don't think adding 'sight breakers' to the street will solve the problem for either side.
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Absolutely.
I have no idea how the most iconic part of his kit and ability simply appears and fades out of nowhere - especially because he does basically nothing with his off hand anyhow.
They need to give Wraith a rework at some point, and making the bell visible is a much needed addition that they don't need to work too terribly hard to rectify.
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I think this would take the 'meme' addon and blow it into the stratosphere as the most useful addon by far.
It could use a bit of a different take, but I love the creativity! Looking forward to your other ideas!
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Trap escape should absolutely be a fixed time, with it being increased by Luck.
That way, at least Luck would do SOMETHING - but nothing too much to get upset about.
If someone goes through the trouble of bringing Salty Lips, Slippery Meat, and Up The Ante - they deserve the ~20% faster escape on a 12-16 second (or whatever it is) struggle time.
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Because the Entity
1.) Is pure evil.
2.) Is the plot glue that allows the game to happen. It's a contrivance machine so that we can have people survive against killers endlessly without glaring plot holes.
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Gotta love how 1 joke has turned into a bunch of people who never took a Statistics class in their life making a bunch of sweeping, misguided counterclaims.
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If they made Dead Hard far more balanced - then Survivors would complain for all of 4 days.
They'd have the worst time for about a week, but then the SBMM will knock the boost out of their feet and plant them into fairer matches against baby killers.
The vast majority of survivors are artificially boosted by this perk. Until the perk is taken down to size, it will be abused by some survivors to turn the game into a quagmire when absolutely 0 skill and 0 effort involved.
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Okay, this is some very advanced business logic that most executive level college grads do not comprehend:
Money = Good.
Market Presence = Good.
Brand Recognition = Good.
Consumer Favor = Good.
Licensing = Money. Market Presence. Brand Recognition. Consumer Favor.
Licensing = Good.
No Licensing = No Money. No Market Presence. No Recognition. Disfavor.
No Licensing = BAD.
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Same reason I love Nemesis.
Gotta slap survivors with a tentacle a couple of times - but being able to hit them through pallets and windows, and break pallets seamlessly makes the game actually fun - instead of the constant fear of pallets turning loops into infinite merry-go-rounds of frustration and boredom.
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It will likely pick back up in a couple of months.
It's no secret that the game is hurting for players - all they want is for people to log in once a day, or even play a single match (Which is why they've been in maximum overdrive with BP giveaways, sales, and promotions)
There seems to be a lot of weight behind Prime. If there was some sort of engagement between platforms, you bet that they will do it again - especially with the kind of 1st quarter they were having this past year. And the second quarter is looking painfully bleak in kind.
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Closest I ever got was me editing for the first time with Adobe Premiere.
The best part is all the views the video has on YT are me proudly going back to take a look at it in all of its clunky badness.