Valik
Valik
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- Valik
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I get the observations about the perks, but what's with the title?
What is the 'nice human complex' ?
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1.) This totally should be fixed, it looks unintentional
2.) Gotta love that in other forum posts community members are begging for cosmetics like this to remain - clipping and texture issues regardless. I just saw a discussion about it the other day where they said it was better to have these kinds of issues than Legendary outfits.
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IMO the stories conveyed in the tomes are complete and utter flops devoid of true creative intent.
Voice acting and animation is pretty solid, I like the talent involved - but the writing, oh Lord in heaven - I prefer fanfiction to some of it.
Not only is the Style all wrong with prose demonstrative of the art, but the direction is painfully misguided.
Instead of getting cute little snippets of our favorite character's lives, we get odd and obtuse ideological angles, incongruous and often misplaced 'expansions' on character lore, and deleterious and conflicting information that serves only to muddy and detract from the very world that it all is set out to expand upon.
I often listen to the tomes to get an idea of what direction the team was going for with some characters - but it more often than not fills me with more questions and confusion than not.
I love the effort that the team has put into their beloved creations, I just hope that they can shake the proverbial etch-a-sketch and set things right later on down the line, because I'd hate for so much damage to the stories remain with the passing of time.
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I really think they did an injustice to the slinger. He's all risk with no payoff. They should make him closer to Nurse, where his ability is Higher Risk, Higher Reward.
The main advantage the slinger has is his anti-loop, which is a lot tighter than Huntress or Trickster. His projectile is a lot easier to hit with its speedy velocity and flat trajectory - as opposed to the Trickster's bloom effect or the Huntress's wind-up for a fast hatchet.
They should probably make him a lot more deadly with a time sensitive drawback.
Deadlier Rifle:
Max range increased to 25m.
Projectile has a parabolic trajectory with a faster initial velocity that rapidly decelerates over the course of its length.
Chain strength increased by ~15%
Snapshot ADS that does not slow speed instantly, but over a 1.5s channel gradually lowers to ~84%.
Innate bloom of inaccuracy and lower range/velocity that degrades over ~1s, becoming highly accurate as the cone narrows and range extends while holding ADS. ~0.5s additional will make the weapon pinpoint accurate.
On a missed shot or chain break, the Deathslinger automatically enters a 3s 'Reload' animation - with only slightly reduced movement speed (~95%)
On a successful attack, the Deathslinger has a 4s successful attack cooldown where he cycles the weapon.
The rifle has multiple rounds (6) and must be reloaded at a locker with a 5s animation to top it off.
Hitting a survivor with the latter 12m of the rifle's range applies Deep Wounds when they are hit.
When a survivor breaks free, they gain Deep Wounds.
Hitting a survivor with the latter 4m of the rifle's range instantly damages them, if they were Healthy - they are also skewered.
Putting a survivor into the Dying state with the spear alone triggers the faster Missed Attack cooldown.
ADS sensitivity begins much higher but is lowered over the 1.5s channel.
+20% Reeling speed.
Animations and Tweaks:
Unique animation when attacking a reeled Healthy survivor.
Unique animation when attacking a reeled Injured survivor without Endurance.
Reeled survivors are unable to move as the Deathslinger attacks.
Louder terror radius volume
Terror radius reduced to 24m
Slightly more aggressive walking animation.
My thought process behind these changes is - it makes taking those risky long range shots super difficult - but highly rewarding. Not only damaging targets, but displacing them if they were healthy. By removing ADS movement penalties and speed debuffs, the Deathslinger becomes much more deadly in chase and can rain down a deluge of death. While his snapshot ADS time can make him hard to contend with in chase, taking a 'quickscope' shot is very unreliable and can only be made in desperation - as it is a highly unreliable means to engage a target.
In the open, he is much stronger if he can skillfully land a spear at maximum range. The displacement in addition to his faster ADS and movement speeds makes him stronger than the Huntress in chases, as well as at long ranges - however, accomplishing such shots may prove much more difficult than the alternative.
Having no Lullaby and a maximum range that peeks outside of his terror radius means that the Deathslinger is overall much more challenging to accomplish shots with, but much - much more rewarding. Using speed, stealth, and skill to the Deathslinger's advantage can make him more deadly than the Huntress in the right circumstances - but far more punitive to learn in the wrong circumstances.
Agreements, disagreements?
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There's a lot of 'Nay' in the comments, but I have an alternate suggestion:
Make the perk stronger against a 4 man escape, and weaker against a solo escape.
You need No Way Out to come in clutch a LOT more than when you need it against 1 survivor.
So tell you what, let's have a shorter No Way Out in a 1v1 scenario if it lasts longer provided the killer plays most generously in the match:
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Description: “You let only a lucky few in, but you’re not about to let any of them out.”
For each hook state a survivor has suffered, gain a token.
If a survivor dies, lose 3 tokens. (netting 0 for that survivor)
When a survivor interacts with the exit gates, there is a loud noise notification and both exits are blocked by the Entity for 6/9/12 seconds for each token gained.
Flavor-text: “’’If you want to help me on my new song – come right this way…’ – Ji-Woon Hak”
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This version rewards killers for having everyone ‘dead on hook’ when they finally go to open the exit gates. If everyone is dead on hook, the exit gates are blocked for 96 seconds. But deaths severely harm this effect. Focusing one or two survivors and leaving another unhooked nets poor results. If the final 3 survivors have only 3 hook states between them, it gives only a 36 second activation time. If the final living survivor does not have any hook states, this perk does not find value. It’s much higher risk and much higher reward that spins the potential back to the Killer’s side in those circumstances where they play exceedingly fair. The reward for playing well and not focusing one survivor over another is paramount, while focusing down and tunneling survivors almost guarantees little to no value from this perk. Even with 2 survivors dead on hook - the perk only lasts 40 seconds in order to give them a chance to escape. However, getting 8 hooks evenly distributed between all survivors before they attempt to open a gate grants 96 seconds, but if the last survivor is dead on hook after hatch is closed, the most they must contend with is 24 seconds.
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Eh, it would be nice - but kinda undermines itself.
As a killer, a clearer red border along the edges of the screen would be nice.
But letting survivors know that the Legion has their down is a double edged sword - they either already know, or they don't.
If they already know, the information is useless.
If they don't know that the legion has their power (By some miracle of ignorance) then how would knowing about the instant down change their behavior? Would it keep them from taking a protection hit or something?
If the major benefactors of this change are the ones it is explicitly designed to punish, it's sadly misplaced.
The Legion should be able to know of their ability, survivors should have to count and pay attention - and stay far, far away from the Killer while doing whatever possible to play safer.
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no
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I really don't understand what people are upset about.
The entire 5th hit thing is kinda a joke to begin with.
It's good at first, it plays into the Legion's massive early game boost, but it's very inefficient after the halfway point.
Once a single survivor is out of play (Dying, on hook, or dead) this 5th hit is basically impossible against an ACTUAL team of survivors.
Because you need to hit 4 survivors to get this "down" ability, how likely is it that survivors drop to their knees and begin mending as soon as you hit them? So long as they 99% their mend or refuse to for a few seconds, the Legion can't even use this power.
The major problem is that survivors keep doing exactly this:
They drop to their knees the second the Legion hits them and they pay the price.
They continue to spend time healing, not able to adapt after being spoiled from CoH and the new healing meta for the past half year, and they pay the price.
The killer basically hasn't changed. Survivors playing against the Legion were completely unprepared to play against them in increased volume.
If they nerf Legion, they will likely make their power degrade faster on consecutive hits to make attaining 4/5 hits a bit more difficult in the long run. Because this is the easiest and most eloquent change to reduce the Legion's potency, it is a likely change. Although I do not think it's needed, or should happen in the first place, reducing the power's duration by ~1 second per consecutive hit, making the player have 4 seconds less to slash a survivor with a 5th hit, may be a small sacrifice to keep the change around.
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Until they make it so that Boons break the totems when snuffed and the perks are forever removed from the trial, I do not believe they can be balanced correctly.
Boons should be incredibly powerful buffs that survivors should be cautious about employing. If the killer snuffs it, it's gone for good - reduced to rubble with an empty perk slot for the trouble.
Boon totems should make survivors feel powerful, with other team members gaining a veritable 5th slot of huge proportions. Meanwhile, killers that take the time to snuff the totem should be rewarded in kind by removing the perk from play.
Until they do this, Boon totems will wallow in an uncomfortable place.
The Killer is rendered powerless, as trying to snuff out totems atop normal gameplay can prove trifling. It's not only unfun, but it can lose the killer the game in certain cases. Make the Boons fun for survivors and now the killer is in an absolute lose-lose situation.
The survivors have no reason to use it, as trying to balance the perpetual nature of the perk inevitably makes the utility of its effect stunted and obtuse. Survivors must spend time blessing a totem and then must force particular situations to find use from it. Which means that so long as the boons are properly balanced for the killer, they become boring and useless to survivors with little overlap between.
Until Survivors can have a powerful effect, they won't be happy with the perk slot. Until killers have a way around Boon perks, making them fun and interesting to bring into the trial will absolutely ruin the game.
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There's the opinion part, and there's the factual part, let's play a game and see which is which!
Bleach is a manga / anime style with hyper stylistic fighting and a fantastical power fantasy for the main character. Because of the power dynamics and the very flashy art direction, the IP makes a poor fit for the Dead By Daylight universe and will likely never reach consideration due to the core incongruities between the two properties. Behavior has made a horror franchise that is brutal and ruthless with aspects of dire hopelessness in the midst of twisting chitin, rust, dust, and guts. Bleach sports eloquence and a streamlined art direction with emphasis on color and contour - where the aspects of soul and spirit are personified through the art of composition and the dazzling effects of prodigious powers. The two simply cannot coexist, one must triumph. To be faithful to Bleach in a chapter is to betray Dead By Daylight, to be faithful to the game is to betray Bleach fans. Such a prospect is bleak indeed.
BLEACH was a Manga I read when I was 14, after reading through 3 issues I watched the anime up to season 4. I concluded that Anime wasn't my thing. This property was the straw that broke my back and made me realize that I despise everything about Japanese storytelling and loathe every single facet of the style. I cannot stand BLEACH and believe it to be an epitaph to such poor and kitsch at the same time that it veritably detracts from the overall art of storytelling with its very existence. I do not mean to be offensive to those who like the show, I just have to respectively disagree with its existence.
So I don't think anything like this will happen!
P.S. - (The answer was, first was fact - second was my opinion!)
P.S.S. - (Also, I appreciate that your name and picture are of Adam Francis, who loves Japanese culture and moved to Japan. An individual of culture! It is fitting to have an Anime based post with that name and picture, very high brow - I love it!)
P.S.S.S. - (It's always good to have a creative discussion! In the future, focus on the pure creativity of the IP and emphasize that it's for fun! By asking the community members in an open forum how Bleach would integrate into DbD, it opens up a lot of philosophical and existential rebuttals. A focus on the creative approach would be the best solution to people rejecting the IP altogether)
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To play the game effectively as a killer, you must evenly distribute your attention across the 4 survivors.
At times, some survivors will require a bit more attention than others - this is called focus.
When a survivor has become a priority target for the killer, the killer can lean their focus towards them. Likewise, when a survivor has proven that they are either not a threat, or simply too much of an investment to catch - they lose focus.
To play effectively as a killer, you should be very careful about who you commit your focus to and how evenly you spread your precious pressure.
Tunneling, however, is the complete disregard of 3/4 of your players.
When you focus 100% on one survivor instead of evenly spreading your pressure - this is having tunnel vision.
I'm not talking about a chase that trails on for more than 45 seconds, I'm talking about campers who relentlessly chase down and try to kill survivors 1 by 1 instead of spreading the attention.
Knowing this, there are 4 typical counterarguments against tunneling:
Sportsmanship - Someone unhooks a survivor right in front of your face, they don't have BT. Do you smack the helpless person and put them back on the hook? You totally can - the survivors made a complete fumble and delivered a kill into your hands. However, in the spirit of good-fun, it's more than agreeable to let the victim of the hook-bomb go and chase after the teammate that made the critical mistake. There's nothing stopping you from going in for the kill on the weakened and misplaced survivor as they flee from the hook - but it's good sport to let them run to catch them later. At the end of the day, we're all playing to have fun, just because someone gives you an inch doesn't mean you have to take it if it spoils the fun for someone else. This isn't mandatory, but the Entity feeds on hope, it's best to give some every now and again.
Entertainment - We all want to have fun. Not only is tunneling pretty unfun overall, as it has very limited engagement, but it's also incredibly drab for survivor players too. One survivor player is rendered helpless - the target of unbridled ire from the killer - while their allies watch helplessly from the sidelines and hold down M1 to repair. It's a snoozefest. Tunneling survivors is just not very fun for anyone involved, least of all for the other survivors who are made to have nothing better to do. It's one thing to be nice/mean, but it's another choice to be engaging/boring to everyone else in the game. The question, at this particular point, is - why play the game the most unfun way imaginable? Even if it's instance based, why tunnel a survivor off of the hook when you could be doing much more fun things with the match other than that? Not interacting with the majority of players is boring - even for the Entity.
Strategy - It's almost never a good idea to tunnel in the long run. While certain survivors can paint a target on their back to become a priority to focus, or make a blunder that you cannot go without punishing - this is fair enough. However, if you're chasing an injured person off the hook, while other healthy survivors complete objectives, you are failing to mitigate their success. Two hypothetical situations: You chase/hook one survivor and the other 3 were working on generators - one comes for the save. 50% of the survivors are working on generators at this point, and only one is unhealthy. You can either: leave the hook for the save and chase another survivor off of their generator, lowering their generator efficiency to 25% and forcing the team to spend more time healing AWAY from gens - or you can proxy camp and focus on the unhooked survivor afresh. At that point, survivors are working just as fast as before - perhaps even more so now that they realize the strategy at play, which may increase their generator efficiency to 75%. Without injuring survivors, they have nothing to pull them off of generators or distracting them. Tunneling is a very, very poor strategy that has many opportunities to backfire. By spreading your attention across multiple survivors, injuring them and forcing them away from objectives - you can play the long game and walk away with more BP, more kills, and more 'wins' than before. The Entity wants to feast on the despair of your prey, it is a shame not to strike fear into their hearts.
Effectiveness - It's no secret that tunneling is questionable in effect. Many survivors run perks that counteract tunneling and provide a useful rebuttal to would-be tunnelers. Even in their absence, survivors have a great amount of time to complete their objectives so long as you turn a blind eye to one or two players altogether. By Tunneling, you're kneecapping your potential BP yield, and wasting a lot of your time - in game and in real life. It's just not a prudent way to spend your day, or time in match. If you want BP, don't tunnel. The Entity feeds on Hope, Despair, and the interaction between survivor and killer - if you fail at these, the Entity is far more likely to be displeased.
If you Tunnel, you're not playing for BP, you're not playing to win, you're not playing for fun, and you're not playing for sport.
If you're tunneling, why bother playing the game at all?
That being said, play the game - and tunnel not.
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All of this is very silly.
The killer's job is to chase and kill survivors, yes.
Survivors being plural.
The killer must divide their attention and apply pressure across multiple players in order to better achieve their directives.
If there are 3 survivors left and 1 is on the hook - go and find whoever is on the generator. Not only does it keep all players engaged, but it draws the match longer and makes Survivors have to work much harder for their escape.
Tunneling and focus are different things. If someone has placed themselves in a unique position for you to punish, so you pay them mind as to best snuff out their play - that isn't tunneling, you're doing your job.
However, if you are putting on the blinders and devoting all of your energies into a singular survivor, not only does the game become drab and uninteresting for the other 3 - but it gives them ample opportunity to complete objectives and work more effectively as a team.
Some people like to say 'Tunneling is a viable strategy that the devs have stated they won't punish!'
True, but it's uninteresting, unengaging, and is a very poor strategy.
This, I believe, we can all agree on.
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In practice, it's because the kind of players that camp and tunnel are the exact people who don't keep count of hook states in their head.
When you get to higher levels, killers will remember and act accordingly - but at lower levels, it's only kindling for the fire.
Needed? Eh.
Survivors NEED to know who's on death hook, because there are 4 people to keep track of including themselves.
Survivors, especially in solo que, can get confused over hook states, especially because they are distant and a fleeting part of the match.
Killer, though, each hook is hard fought and includes a face-to-face with the survivor.
Telling the killer who's on death hook isn't really NEEDED as it is for survivor. And there's the slight potential for mean-spirited users to have a field day with.
It's one of those things that it doesn't have to change, because it doesn't really benefit anyone anyhow.
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I tend to agree, but I think there are alternatives.
In truth, there are only 3 exhaustion perks in the game for the killer: Fearmonger, Blood Echo, and the new one coming out with the future chapter.
All perks have additional effects other than exhaustion.
Exhaustion itself is like an in-born cooldown to limit the use of powerful perks.
That means that, by merit, in order for exhaustion to have no effect in a match, survivors must not bring any of the more powerful perk options (which is uncommon indeed)
It's a lot like Distortion or Calm Spirit - which are highly dependent on Killer perks and powers to find value.
Having a tiny amount of labored breathing volume isn't so bad, so I don't have a problem with it - but it's not at all necessary to solve a problem, because I disagree that there's a problem in the first place.
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They really need to be switched and reworked in some way.
Undying's problem is that there's really no reason to take it absent of another Hex perk.
Thrill of the Hunt is much of the same, but even less so.
But how do you rectify this?
Old Undying could have survivors pining for endless minutes as they try to find each and every last totem on the map - how do you punish survivors for cleansing without breaking the game.
Old Thrill Of The Hunt gave killers a situationally unwinnable stalemate as survivors may find themselves unable to cleanse a totem with the slowdown and notifications combined - how do you reward the killer for keeping totems up, and punish survivors for cleansing, without creating unbeatable circumstances?
You have to get creative.
Undying should make survivors rush around and try to find Hex totems to cleanse, but can't break the game.
Thrill Of The Hunt should make totems a cat-and-mouse game between survivors and killer, making survivors prioritize them to counter a killer advantage.
Here are a couple of examples of where you could go with these perks:
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Hex: Undying
Description: “A Hex that shares its roots with all other totems in the trial. You will soon force them to realize that every small victory they claimed was actually against their best interest.”
(Remove the aura reading potential.)
When a hex totem is cleansed, this one is cleansed instead. When a dull totem is cleansed (or blessed), gain 1/2/3% movement speed.
Flavor-text: “‘Sacrifice seems to be a fundamental part of this place’s design, perhaps I can twist that into my favor’ - Journal of Talbot Grimes”
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Hex: Thrill Of The Hunt
Description: “A Hex rooting its power in despair. Your totems feed your instincts, and those who interfere fall into your deadly sights”
Survivors have their auras revealed while they are within 2/4/6 meters of a totem.
Cleansing speed of all survivors is reduced by 20/25/30%
Flavor-text: “Get back! If you touched it, the beast is already on its way!”
~
Hex: Undying... Hear me out on this one. What’s the problem with Undying? Nobody EVER takes Undying unless they have another perk slot that it’s protecting. It’s only viewed as ‘hex insurance’ which makes it both boring - and predictably flat. While it can pack immense value by increasing the survival of your hexes by 20% - it’s otherwise useless. Sometimes it doesn’t have any value in a match - but without a hex perk to compliment it, it is TOTALLY useless. The aura read is better relegated for other perks, as it is a poor match for the use of Undying, as well as its theme. To make Undying worthwhile BOTH when it’s with a hex and when it’s the only hex, you have to make it have a strong passive effect that directs attention to it. By simply giving the killer movement on a dull totem cleanse (or bless) - you can edge out a small buff if survivors dare to touch your totems. In addition, it makes them have to deal with the Hex before they start dropping blessings. It can be strong if survivors ignore the perk, or foolishly cleanse a dull totem early only to reveal the curse - but it’s very limited. While it will generally never see much value, the potential is always there, and will make survivors stop to look for the hex as you go into chases with advantage. It makes it a slightly stronger follow up to other hexes, yes, but it also makes it viable as a stand-alone gamble that can give great chasing potential against the right team, while complimenting the Blight’s rushes as a staple perk.
Hex: Thrill Of The Hunt... This perk has a bad rap. Similar to Undying, it is only useful as a support perk for other totems. However, by reallocating Undying’s aura read to this, it revolutionizes it into a brand new hybrid that changes how Killers and Survivors interact with this perk. Survivors will always know when this perk is active when they try to cleanse a totem – revealing its curse and notifying them that the killer has likely been watching their aura. The 30% speed debuff is nice, as it lends to the traditional intention of Thrill as an anti-cleansing perk. However, the main strength is its combination with the generous and constant Aura read effect. This makes the hex totem a powerful perk that becomes a priority for survivors in the game – once they realize its effect, they will endeavor to cleanse totems to negate the aura reading effect, while also changing how killers treat totems. The Thrill of the Hunt is about maintaining your totems – yes even the dull totems – as they are valuable assets. In high levels of play, the Hex itself is still at risk – but astute killers will always be trying to protect their assets. By bringing this perk, the killer runs the risk of having it cleansed – but while it is up, it adds an entire new level of play around totems that will shake up any match it’s in.
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People are people.
People have as great a propensity to be good willed and humble as well as arrogant and mean spirited.
People have the ability to lift you up, or tear you down - some will be the former, some will do their best to be the latter.
Killer players and Survivor players all share one thing in common:
They are all people.
Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you.
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I cannot even begin to express how bad of an idea BT basekit would be on its own.
However, one thing that's massive that people should be talking about is precident.
If you make BT basekit, who's to say you shouldn't make other perks basekit too?
Hey! All survivors get Endurance for a few seconds on unhook, recover faster and can revive themselves once, have Dead Hard already, and can use an integrated DS that only lasts for half as long!
Next, all killers get NOED no matter what, Ruin always spawns on a 6th totem, Pop Goes The Weasel basekit at 15% regression, and every killer sees the aura of all survivors outside 42 meters after a hook so we can make BBQ basekit too!
This is the OPPOSITE of fun design.
It turns the matches from fun and diverse to an amalgamate of bandaid fixes that cost nothing and service only to dull the sharp edge of each matches' experience.
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The problem exists with supply and demand - you see the same thing in massive games like League Of Legends.
~
Some of their champs that are unpopular, like Ryze, Zilean, Fiddlesticks haven't gotten a new skin in YEARS - even when the studio has seemingly endless supplies of talent and money. So what gives?
Hyper-low pick rate Champion in League like Skarner, Olaf, and Ivern don't see many (if any) new skins because, well, they are never truly played. If the developers spend the time and money making skins for them, they will see a very small bump in sales and a massive drop-off after release. Bad ROI.
Meanwhile, when they release YET ANOTHER skin for their super popular picks like Lux, Jinx, Ahri, Pyke, Vayne, etc. Those skins sell super well. The same cost and development time as the others, but in addition to their high initial sales - they will fall off slower, maximizing ROI as several thousands of players line up to purchase the new skin for their mains.
~
The same applies here, even more so.
What's the difference between Feng and Meg?
You don't have to PAY for Meg, but Feng is DLC.
All DLC characters have a HARD cap to their usage, unlike FTP models like League where unlocking a champion is as easy as can be.
This means that the target demographic for certain survivors is LOCKED.
If there are, for the sake of a radical example, 500 Adam Francis players and 700,000 Feng players - you're going to want to make the cosmetic for Feng, because the market is much higher than Adam Francis players. It is potentially possible that the product will create a group of conversion consumers that will buy the Adam Francis DLC in order to pay for the cosmetic, but it isn't a way to go about business. You're looking for ROI, and unless you accidentally make the greatest skin in the game ever - it's not going to increase your potential market.
Lets look at Sales, right quick.
Elodie is a good character, but her chapter is quite unpopular. Yui is a great Survivor, but her pick rate is especially low. Jeff Johansson is a great guy and all, but you almost never see him in a match.
Meanwhile, the tope 3 most players survivors last year were Feng, Claudette, and Meg.
So, why would the developers work tirelessly and pour resources into cosmetics for Yui, Jeff, and Elodie - which many, many, many players do not even HAVE - when they could put the same amount of effort into making cosmetics for Claudette, Meg, and Feng? Two of which are available to ALL users.
I'm not disagreeing with you, because I feel that having good cosmetics may actually cause people to want to engage with the DLCs (After all, they aren't that expensive to begin with) and make matches a lot more interesting.
I really want BHVR to branch out and take community suggestions for cosmetics, because a lot of them are TOP NOTCH!
@Tsukah pointed this out. I'd pay real money for those cosmetics - so would my wife, for that matter!
However, it's always good to consider the machine that works behind the scenes to bring us that content. It has a logic of its own.
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They need to rework the grading system altogether to simply grant bonus BP and score.
If they do this, and tie it to your SBMM system - this can create an aggregate increase for high performers to boost them higher, while low performers score no bonus bloodpoints on top of their low SBMM in-match performance which will help them settle down at a more reasonable range.
It's kind of funny, because there are MULTIPLE ways to make the badge system actually work - but none of them are implemented, nor sound like they will be implemented.
I guess it's because they don't have badges in hockey, but we can only hope.
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Not making excuses, but the truth is - people in the development side of things are scarcely ever the people on the consuming side of them.
It's a lot different for things where creativity and production are intertwined and massively individual.
I.E.
Writers that love to write often like to read too | Artists who love to draw also love to view the art of others. | Musicians often listen to a lot of music as well.
Pretty standard, however:
Directors and producers of film are not always watching movies for enjoyment | Actors often are busy acting and often are not massive movie buffs themselves | Cinematographers don't always watch tons of films, as they are often busy with their own.
Likewise:
Those who enjoy coding for a living don't always play games | Art directors don't always play their games | Managers, Directors, and Producers often do not sample their own product at the same level as avid consumers.
It's not so much ignorance - it's just part of the process. Producers are tragically blind to the forefront of their own creation - which is a conscious concern for any and all that work to make an end product.
You're making a forest, and the user sees the tree. It's hard to know how good or bad that tree is going to be when your view is a lot less specific in context.
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@Viskod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2941304#Comment_2941304
Nemesis can't do that right out of the box though, he has to whip 2 different survivors to get to Level 2. Also, you can literally just crouch to avoid getting hit by his tentacle whip at low barriers he can whip over.
Tier 2 pallet breaking and Tier 3 (Actual good mode) does take a bit of getting into - but I have had matches where survivors were caught quickly and took hits for one another - allowing me to tier up to 3 before a single gen was done. It happens.
And as for the crouching thing - survivors without Urban Evasion are only feeding you the pallet at that point. Tentacle out, you're faster than their crouching speed. So if you see them crouching a lot, you can hold it to trick them into letting you loop more efficiently - and slap them when they realize they have to move faster to gain distance. Moreover, your tentacle isn't a point-and-click over walls every time, a lot of it is anticipation. You begin your whip animation before it lands, and it persists for a split second after - which means you can 'pre-fire' around corners and open vaults.
While you're right that people CAN use crouching against him - it it a far less effective strategy than against the likes of Huntress, Deathslinger, or Trickster. And if you're Artist - people don't even need to crouch and give you distance in the loop, they just run away when they see you putting crows down.
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@Rigbeta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2943070#Comment_2943070
I feel like you're a meta player. I like how you just say "no" for one, like there's no need to explain yourself. You're just right.
Do I really have to explain the complex reasons why killers should never, ever, ever, EVER be able to climb terrain outside of a killer specific power that is purely balanced around it?
Especially when the bare minimum was already voiced in the Survivor climbing gloss-over above.
Besides, I think I did enough writing for all the other points. My opinions are as they are - my opinions - I don't owe you any more of a staunch explanation behind them any more then you owe me an explanation for yours.
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@White_Owl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2942879#Comment_2942879
All the perks you mention don't get made completely and utterly useless by a status effect that is very common between perks and addons.
How many times do you use Resurgence or Solidarity while Hemorrhaged and don't have the option to get healed up relatively soon?
Rarely happens because nobody uses those perks.
Solidarity especially - if you're healing someone, they can turn around and heal you with hardly a second's pause.
You didn't really read the post, did you? If you heal someone with Solidarity while afflicted by Hemorrhage, you don't get any progress at all since Solidarity is not considered a heal and doesn't stop the regression. By the time you finish healing, your progress will still be zero.
If a perk is countered by an effect that is designed to counter these exact prospects, why should they be made exclusions?
Because if that perk is severly weak so that nobody uses it beside for the adept achievement, it deserves to at least be functioning. Or do we want everyone to run the ever-hated meta?
1.) Yes they do. Blood Echo / Fearmonger make it so that Dead Hard and Sprint Burst are unable to be used, Iron Maiden will reveal a survivor's location and expose them if they attempt to use Inner Healing, Items will always be knocked to the ground and sapped by Franklin's, etc. They are direct counters, which is the point. I understand that you're leaning into the soft counters mentioned, but let's not get wrapped up between forests and trees.
2.) 100% true. Hemorrhage is a rare status in and of itself, but Resurgence and Solidarity are rarer finds still.
3.) Well that's the problem then, isn't it. I misunderstood the post and thought they were saying that, while idle, the progress is eaten away - not that it doesn't occur in the first place. Solidarity should be considered healing just the same as AHS heals passively. I can agree on that much. Still unsure why people are frustrated to the point to ask for the healing to be capped and unable to regress, still.
4.) I see that. Agree 100%. But that's kind of the angle here. It's like getting a genie to grant you a wish, then wishing that you were on-time to work. Why ask for the perks to - in rare circumstances - be able to circumvent their counters so that they can continue being useless perks? Why not ask for a total change or upgrade?
People are out here asking for Solidarity to be immune to Hemorrhage, why aren't they just asking for a broad spectrum buff?
~
While healing another survivor, heal yourself at a rate of 50%.
For each health allied health state healed, gain a token up to 4/3/2.
When there are no healthy survivors left in the trial, and you are at max tokens, they are consumed and you recover a health state over 16 seconds.
(This timer is paused while being carried or on the hook. Damage taken during this time cancels the effect.)
~
Now it's still useful when you heal someone else while healthy.
It's useful and you don't need to make the perk immune to the status to see it in matches more.
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Doesn't quite work - especially with how the game's current design is implemented.
Hold Breath - Overlap with perks. Not only breaks the game in many situations, but also shrouds the usefulness of certain perks and approaches of the game into ambiguity.
Hide - This is basically useless and would only serve to confuse newer players. Crouching already makes survivors pretty small - if they are keen on stealth, they will utilize positioning better or hop in a locker. This mechanic is redundant.
Climb - This not only breaks the game with certain perks, but it can break a great deal of maps while also proving quite useless generally. If there are areas of the game where this may come in handy, they are ultimately contrary to the core design of the game.
Crawl - This can lead to some horrendous issues with hitboxes. Atop it all, it can break the typical conventions of the game, which can lead to further confusion and frustration with virtually no plausible benefit. While I can see a quick 'Slide' mechanic working, allowing survivors to crawl - even when contextual - can be a bit much.
KILLER:
Veil Walk: Certain killers do and don't have teleportation in their kit. It's a premium ability. Not only could teleportation be used to deleterious and cheesy effects - especially when overbroad - it can become a lot to try and balance around.
Glyph Read - I actually like this a lot. If it took the killer a good bit of time to interact with and survivors could quickly interact with they glyphs in order to cancel the 'buff' - it would also give survivors something interesting to do other than generators.
Climb - No.
Break Window - 100% Breakable Windows should be in this game, and I have in idea why they aren't already.
Taunt - Clever and creative, but unfortunately this is not something that all killers should enjoy. I'd absolutely love to see this become part of a specific kit.
Having a killer who can teleport to the center of the map, block windows, taunt Survivors to inflict visual disturbances, and has power-ups around the map the survivors are encouraged to interact with... that would make for an interesting killer!
Base kit though? I'd have to disagree.
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I'm okay with it needing to be when crouched - especially because you don't want issues with overlap while running Dead Hard.
It would be better if it made a trail of scratch marks that faded gradually AWAY from you, so wherever the pebble lands, it looks like a survivor was running in the opposite direction.
It would be a lot more convincing.
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But wait, wouldn't this change put survivors in a
. . .
sticky situation?
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Here, I'll fix that for you:
Survivors lose 75% less Condemnation once depositing a video tape.
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I honestly, honestly, honestly do not understand the hubub.
It's like being upset that Agitation counters Breakout, Blood Echo counters Dead Hard, Corrupt Intervention can counter Prove Thyself, Iron Maiden counters Inner Strength, Haunted Ground counters Small Game, Coulrophobia counters Self-Care, Franklin's Demise counters items, Hex: Third Seal counters ALL aura-based information perks.. what gives?
Should Breakout gain Haste relative to killer movement speed so it doesn't get countered by Agitation?
Should Blood Echo get cancelled when a survivor is in chase, so that they can use Dead Hard?
Should Corrupt Intervention give way when a survivor with Prove Thyself approaches?
Should Iron Maiden be cancelled when a survivor uses a locker to heal with Inner Strength?
Should Haunted Grounds not activate if it is cleansed by someone running Counterforce or Small Game?
Should Self-Care, CoH, and Medkits ignore Coulrophobia?
Should Items of high resist Franklin's Demise?
Should certain information perks like Object of Obsession override Hex: The Third Seal?
The answer is as unanimous as it is obvious: no.
When a perk or factor of the game exists, it does not mean that the perks that are directly harmed or countered by this factor must become exclusions.
Especially when considering the extreme rareness of such interactions.
How many times do you use Resurgence or Solidarity while Hemorrhaged and don't have the option to get healed up relatively soon?
Solidarity especially - if you're healing someone, they can turn around and heal you with hardly a second's pause.
I just do not at all see the problem, nor do I understand the unique logic or perspective reasoning behind the request.
If a perk is countered by an effect that is designed to counter these exact prospects, why should they be made exclusions?
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They already did the pip system and folks were quite annoyed by it, because it has the same trappings as MMR but is a lot easier to exploit in the long run.
If emblems granted bonus BP, you could turn it into a SPM system where time in-match is calculated with bloodpoint accrual.
If you stomp the killer and escape in under 3 minutes, you look pretty good.
If the killer camps you after you looped them, you look pretty good.
If you waste time sitting around letting your teammates die, you look pretty bad.
If you lose in chase repeatedly and fail to tackle objectives before you die, you look pretty bad.
~ on the killer side
If you stomp survivors into the dirt and end the match before 2 minutes rolls around, you look pretty good.
If the game is tense and draws long - but you play to your strengths, you look pretty good.
If you sit around and camp the hook - doing nothing, you look pretty bad.
If you lose in chase and wander around aimlessly, you look pretty bad.
This system would put the highest performing players up on the list and mean that the players who can make the match most interesting rise, while slower and newer players that have significant difficulty in their matches will slowly sink to the bottom.
The best thing is, all you need to do to balance this system is to tweak scoring events to better encourage skillful behavior on both sides.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2940728#Comment_2940728
Why is the solution always to nerf good perks, but never buff bad perks? Also, Exponential is garbage. You’re gonna spend 14 seconds or more to bless a totem, to get recovery speed and pickup ability in a small area… that can be snuffed? Come on, you know you never see this perk in your trials for a reason. Even less do you see it ever have any value.
With the killer roster we have today, you know BT only being radius-activated is a big issue. That’s the whole reason it was changed to always activate.. at the cost of a shorter duration too. Which many killers know to just wait out and tunnel through anyways.
Until we get base kit help for camping and tunneling, there ought to definitely be no further nerfs to the survivor meta.
A metric ton of perks should be buffed - but all within balance.
Boons, for example, need to be reworked. Their current system of infinite usage means they are in a difficult spot. They, frankly, are not allowed to be made useful - for any menial usage will overlap with the ubiquitous nature that boons allow and break the game, as seen with CoH even at 0.75 healing speed.
ALL perks need a once-over, in my book.
But, for now, kill-switching DH would be awesome
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As a killer main who 100% thinks that the game is extremely survivor sided, this is not the way, brother.
Survivors should be able to sprint as long and hard as they must
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Everyone should be encouraged to quit the game for the day if it's causing them harm.
Not only have I experienced this, not only have I had loved ones who have experienced this - but I believe we can all empathize that there are frustrating, difficult, or the occasional deleterious match that's going to take more time to get through than we either currently have, or can contend with.
Not only do IRL issues come up, but sometimes, a match isn't going your way and you have to make the call on if you want to stick it out for another 7-10 minutes or if you would rather table DbD for the night and spend time with your family. (Or anything else)
Perhaps there could be a BloodPoint or Karma system detraction to give folks pause before they make that choice.
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@GuyGravyy said:
I actually find the rework to make legion harder to play cause survivors know to run from legion when he's coming and waste his metre so they can't get that free down. from your end it sounds like a skill issue tbh.
To be 100% fair, players were and should have been doing this since day 1.
It's like saying that whenever something improves, people are made more aware of it.
Just because killers anticipate Dead Hard does not make it any weaker, knowing of something and how it's implemented in the game does not, by merit, make it weaker than it was before it was buffed.
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@AshInTheTallGrass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2941722#Comment_2941722
lol this forum is filled with some *interesting* characters. Figured I should acknowledge them before they could sneak attack with a snarky "dbd is trash now so there's absolutely nothing fun about it" or "it doesn't matter because until the devs fix (insert complaint unrelated to the question)."
Fair point. Sometimes, I love the meme games, but other times, I like the tense, scary games. I don't really get those now, sadly (I've been playing DBD for years so the fear wore off a long time ago).
True - the spark is harder to hold once experience takes hold.
However, the tension is best when you're in the midst of the cat and mouse game. Ghostface popping around the corner is always worth a jolt!
I think that, as seen above, the mario team is all good fun - and some meme builds are equally effective as well as hilarious. However, both sides need to hold a certain reverence for the other, which most 'meme' interactions belie.
Killers should be in constant tension that survivors are going to make a daring getaway.
Survivors should be on the edge of their seats as they struggle to complete objectives and survive chases long enough to secure their escape.
I find that most 'meme' interactions focus on Survivor who hold the killer in complete contempt, and killers that view survivors as mere playthings.
It's good to have fun in between, but when I say there should be tension - it isn't so much that everyone should be fearful or terrified, moreover - that there should be a solid root of mutually exclusive objectives and power that causes players to sit at the edge of their seat... which makes the jokes all the more hilarious once sprung.
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I really like this idea!
It's super similar to ones proposed before - I'd probably vote to change the timer to 16/24/32 and keep the stun amount a flat 5 seconds.
I don't think it's a good idea to make it fizzle out when someone else gets hooked, because there are many times when there's a 'trade' that backfires and both survivors get put back into the dirt. I don't think DS should be deactivated when your friendly survivor makes a bad play and you both get punished for it.
Also, if the countdown stopped altogether when you're on the ground, a killer would be made incapable of waiting the perk out.
If you want the perk to finally slow down and stop featuring in every match, make it an Exhaustion perk. This way it doesn't have to be deactivated, it just exhausts you for the rest of the match - which is a fair tradeoff for denying the killer a hook state.
~
Description: “You will not go quietly. If they try to take you, you’ll stab at them with whatever you can grab.”
After being unhooked, this perk is active for 16/24/32 seconds.
When the killer picks you up, succeed a difficult skill check to stun them for 5 seconds and free yourself.
You become the Obsession when you use this perk to stun the killer.
Cannot be activated while Exhausted. Upon landing a successful stun with this perk, become Exhausted for the remainder of the trial.
While in chase, the countdown is paused. The countdown degrades half as fast while in the Dying state.
The following interactions will deactivate this perk:
Healing, repairing, cleansing, unhooking, Sabotaging, Unlocking, Opening
Flavor-text: “’There’s nothing to be scared of… I killed him.’ - Laurie Strode’”
~
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Ghostface can sneak up on survivors reliably at end game, but is extremely map reliant and is only actually good against baby survivors.
Shape is stronger and tier 3 knocks off health states when you need it most. The vault speed and lunge range increase is a super sweet bonus that makes him edge out GF in most loops, while being more prominent and reliable in sneaking up on survivors and punctuating exchanges with deadly lunges.
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I have to disagree with a lot of the pro players on this one.
Many pros love it and swear by it - putting it up there in the A tier, often above the likes of Save The Best For Last, Devout Hope, or Undying.
Personally - it can come in clutch and feed valuable information at times, but it can also backfire once you get used to its ping.
Sometimes it tells you what you already know, sometimes it doesn't tell you anything when you need it most.
You can often find some semblance of value from it in any given match, but it's often not as good as other perks in my opinion.
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(I love these options!)
While there should be levity at certain points, the game should be tense and frightening.
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A lot of people here are saying the Artist, which is somewhat correct.
Artist can use her lil birbs to shut down a loop so thoroughly that it forces survivors to move on to the next one.
However, once this happens - the survivor, more often than not, makes it to the next tile without having to throw a pallet or use their Dead Hard.
Her anti-loop is incredibly strong, but it also takes time - and is particularly slow to set up.
If you're at a short wall loop with a pallet between, and you start putting crows down facing either side - the survivor is just going to make a run for it while they see you setting up.
It's super strong, but it's not particularly effective against educated survivors.
It keeps them from looping by holding a giant sign that says "Hold W".
Cenobite, Clown, Nightmare - these people have slowdown that makes the distance game a lot harder for survivors - which is particularly effective, but it can often fail to bear teeth in certain loops, especially when survivors decide to play safe. These killers are less about shutting down tiles as much as punishing survivors for not playing around safe pallets as best they can.
Trickster, Huntress, Deathslinger, Plague, Executioner have their own projectiles that they can use to harass survivors in shallow loops with low cover - but they often can't compete against survivors who use walls effectively or know how to bait pallets. While these killers can be particularly effective in certain circumstances - especially in the hands of a skilled player - they can have a small bit of guesswork and mind-gaming attached to their power. They are good at what they do, but you're going to have to make some blind guesses at times - and will often struggle to use your anti-chase abilities in tight loops with big walls. Even though the Plague's ability is perhaps the strongest projectile in the game, her Corrupt Purge can be a finite and rare resource that is best used when forcing survivors into dead zones - but is pervasively tricky to pull off in tighter loops, or on maps with full coverage.
Pig, Demogorgon, Wraith, Hillbilly, Blight, and Power-Up Oni have dashes - which can be particularly strong - but they are often telegraphed dramatically, which allow intelligent survivors to play around them and, again, pallets completely annihilate these killers where they stand. More than pallets though, none of these killers can compete well against safe vaults. While some are certainly stronger than others - there's a bit of a dance one must do to force a talented player to fall into your hands while jousting against them with your powers.
Trapper, Hag, Doctor, and Spirit are in a special category where positioning and 'trapping' a survivor by knowing where they are and will be is what makes them special in a loop. Survivors that can keep tabs on your location and watch diligently can easily and frequently thwart your efforts though. These killer often suffer the same issues that the Artist has.
Nurse, Shape, Cannibal, Legion, Ghostface, and Twins are not particularly good in loops. Their specialty is facing survivors in the open and forcing them into dead-zones by eliciting particular advantages with their powers. These are the killers you clench your buttcheeks against and desperately look for a gym that still has a pallet. Cannibal is weak against windows - meaning he's suffering against the basic LT. Ghostface has virtually no power if he doesn't get a mark first, Shape becomes super-M1, but that doesn't make him much better in loops, Legion has the particular advantage of keeping survivors injured - which means loops are going to be a bit shorter, but no easier, Twins are an M1 without Victor - and Victor struggles against windows and pallets more than open fields. Nurse is going to down you if you're in the open. Your only hope is to hide or confuse her in a gym.
So - who's a killer that exemplifies all of these?
Who can play around shallow loops, pallets, distance, vaults, and duel in the open - all with an ability that is reliable and can threaten a survivor with a FAST down if they are hit with it?
Nemesis.
Doesn't have to bait pallets. If he misses, he breaks the pallet.
Survivors have to joust his ability like you're a Huntress or a Demogorgon, but you're still a 115 killer with hardly a second transition back to M1. You have zombies to play with, which can help shutdown loops in particular circumstances. The timing of your whip means that you can cheese line-of-sight loops, which Huntress and Slinger mains can only dream of.
IMO, Nemesis is the perfect anti-loop killer.
He ticks all of the boxes and can reliably effectuate hits where even the Artist cannot.
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@shinobu149 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2934403#Comment_2934403
Ive actually seen those perks quite often as a killer main. Idk about other killers though. As for always getting the same character thats not the companies fault it players that dont know variety😅 and everyone uses the same character as others its hard to fix that. For example halo infinite a new skin releases and everyone is using it, you cant control that evryone just want to wear the same thing. I love getting new characters it isnt even about the perks to me. And I dont have issues with bugs I kinda enjoy them if their fun like the effect of swimming on the hook lol idk the bugs arnt that bad as everyone keeps complaining about in every post dbd makes its quite annoying and yes getting sadako is more interesting im glad they brought her in shes my main and I get solid dubs with her😅 her mori is just icing on the cake. On another note people use the same perks because it works for them. For me I use bills perk and detective tapp where you unhook someone so when you get hooked you just jump off. I also use the perk where you can see the hatch, and get up when knocked down and I dont remeber the other but thats what I use when I play survivor with my boyfriend
Dude, what do I have to do to get an MMR and regional matchup like yours?
These perks have some of the lowest pickrates in the entire game!
(Also, the perks you are describing are Borrowed Time, Left Behind, Unbreakable, and Deliverance - which is from Adam Francis ;D)
Thank you for giving your feedback, your opinions are valid and it's always nice to hear a different perspective on things. I'm glad that you and your boyfriend are enjoying the new chapter, and I hope to see you out in the fog someday :)
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@HeyItsQuiet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2938877#Comment_2938877
Im pretty sure by the posts in this forum alone, between having more customizable characters with minor clipping (which we rarely see in game because we're in motion) and all the bugs and glitches the actual game has, we'd rather have unlocked sets so that we can purchase the pieces we want, and fund the department responsible for fixing the actual game.
You and I agree. But, unfortunately, we aren't the causals - nor the employers
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I don't do anything.
It's pretty unfun looking at the lobby in anticipation anyhow, IMO, so I often tab out and only tab back in once in match.
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Absolutely not.
Survivor perks should be more situational and killer perks should be more general.
If all killer perks were good, then having 4 solid perks would allow most (if not all) killers to stand a very good chance against a team of survivors who are trying to play around 16 highly situational perks that the killer must manage.
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I must firmly disagree that meta perks are only typically brought to place an emphasis on individual power, choice, and/or some level of in-match enjoyment.
Flat fact is, some perks are more generally useful and impactful than others.
The perks you noted are meta perks with major impact to the game, they are taken into matches to maximize impact.
The reason the vast majority of perks are ignored by survivors is not because they lack the ability to empower individuals, but because they lack general value or reliable impact.
To suggest that meta perks only exist in the meta because they empower survivors to 'play how they want to play' - that alone suggests that there's only one 'correct' way to enjoy the game as a survivor.
People aren't forgetting about Lightweight, Diversion, Urban Evasion, or Dark Sense because it doesn't let them play the game 'how they want' - it's because the perks are lame, end of story. They're flat bad. If you compare the raw, unbridled power of DS, DH, or BT against the likes of Lightweight or Dark Sense - there's a massive disparity in general value and reliable impact in matches.
The point being made here is that 'Survivors are toxic because they want to win'
Survivors don't bring meta perks because they want to win, they bring meta perks because they want agency, they want to have a chance to win...
"Survivors don't bring strong perks because they want to win. They bring strong perks because they want to win."
Kind of a silly way to word it, but it's true enough.
The meta perks are the most reliable and highest value perks in the game. Survivors take them because it offers the greatest chance to escape the match.
Ultimately, what is being said is that players want to win, and meta perks grant them the greatest opportunity to do so - which drives a stale and frustrating playstyle.
Right?
I don't think saying "Meta is meta because players want to win reliably" is new territory. And I certainly do not think it constitutes as a valid stepping stool to cast blame for community wide toxicity on survivor mains, which is unbecoming in all forms.
Toxic players are toxic, and players generally want to have fun and win in their matches. Strong perks grant them the greatest chance to win their matches.
They are two separate bits of information with no true correlation. Wanting to win or have fun in a game does not, by virtue, elicit a vector towards toxicity.
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We can hope. Lots of good IPs out there ripe for the picking. The game needs to be in a healthier state, though. I'd rather they wait until the character can be done justice and not rush it out when the game isn't ready for it.
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Take my money
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Depends on your definition.
Some people think being in the same zip code of the hook is 'camping' for example.
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I think the Hag being the Birch is a good example of when such things are appropriate.
Perhaps Nemesis as Mr. X as stated above would be another good example.
However, I don't think it should be frequent nor reliable.
(If we don't get a Chucky chapter, please make the twins have a Chucky and human Bride version!)
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The King
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I like the creativity!
I don't know how balanced or effective it may be... but I certainly do like the thought put into it!