UndeddJester
UndeddJester
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Meanwhile me on PS5 eternally grateful that there is no end game chat and I can just play my game in peace.
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While I would not be so combative with the point, personally my only real frustration with the "wait for the PTB" argument was it was often used as an easy way of deflecting out of the discussion at hand.
There were numerous points of it that were obviously problematic from the get go, and when these problems rightly got pointed out with clear and logical argumentation, rather than admit these issues were indeed a problem, the pivot was instead to say "well we won't know until we see the numbers in the PTB".
Anyone could see right from the get go that basekit Pop, Barbecue and a Haste boost was never going to help killers like Trapper or Hag, and unless that haste boost was utterly absurd, it wasn't gonna help a good portion for the roster either over the mobile ones. Without looking at the numbers at all you can see that Wraith, Spirit and Wesker were gonna benefit far more than Myers, Deathslinger, or Trickster...
Even if the haste boost was highly substantial, it still raises the point that this is what we want? This autopilot, switch your mind off version of DBD where you get a load of your decisions for both sides made automatically for you by virtue of heavy handed rules? I didn't want these changes from the perspective of either side, just because the guiding principle behind it I don't agree with. I prefer nuance and subtlety in games, not hand holding auras and effects that make the game all mechanics and no thought.
I believe this was a reasonable argument, yet I had my fair share of "wait until the PTB". Funnily enough, my concerns were not only founded... but proved to be even worse than I feared... and ultimately I got quite impolite and curt after that point, cause I often got ratio'd but did not have my arguments challenged one time.
I don't ever mind being wrong, I am more than happy to be proven wrong... if someone has a constructive suggestion to address the issues, even better... but to raise solid points and concerns only for people to basically ignore them and ultimately say "anyone's concerns against this are invalid because stopping tunneling and slugging is more important", got my back up very fast...
I can only apologise to my numerous friends in the forums for getting as combative as I was during that period, but it really did feel like I was being gaslit constantly to just ignore what were very obvious talking points to me.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001404#Comment_4001404
being a stealth killer im all for map of the week like they did with fnaf. it would allow people like me to play good stealth builds. pretty difficult to do on wide open maps which seems to be an abundant of these days.
map offerings was an issue mostly because people would dc in loading screen if they saw an offering they didnt like (i spent 2 hours trying to get a match but people would DC in loading screen whenever they saw RPD or The Game offering, when i removed the offerings i got a match instantly). So hiding them was a good change, but nerfing them into oblivion so they no longer work at all has had an impact on stealth killers.
True, and as I've thought of it more, Map of the Week (or map of the week offerings boost) would also help Killer adepts as well.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/456627/adept-killer-with-a-hatch-escape
i hope to god its not a change because it would further incentivise hiding for hatch which the devs were supposed to be preventing. But i wouldnt put it past them to do something like that.
Mind you, that's a boon to killer side, cause losing Killer Adepts because of hatch is buns, and you can only really do them if you're facing Bambi's... a 3k requirement would be fairer.
While we're at it, Survivor Adepts also suck with map offerings being removed. Someone suggested a map of the week queue to help with this, which might be an idea. If not, maybe there could be a map of the week to boost offerings chances in the regular queue? If it's a really bad map, sac wards are a thing.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001219#Comment_4001219
I found it too hard to switch, honestly.
Hehehehe, I felt that... which way were you switching I wonder?
I was playing 2v8, and I legit could not hit skillchecks all game... I had to play healer a while and use the heal boost to hopefully avoid getting any while I figured it out xD
I eventually learned to quell my skillcheck instinct and started timing off sight, and I got the hang of it... and man, it was so easy. The only time I had trouble was when I wasn't quite ready for it and I went back to autopilot again xD
@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001219#Comment_4001219
I will literally nod off on gens if I'm tired enough. I don't mind doing them though.
Indeed xD
It's strange, the console input lag makes skillschecks surprisingly engaging... I ain't kidding about the 4 o'clock skillchecks...
I remember one time I got 4 of them in a row Vs. Doctor with Huntress Lullaby... I lost 60% gen progress in 12 seconds 😩 😩 😩
I definitely ain't bored on gens... I'd say I'm much more:
In fact, advice I give to PC players... if you see Huntress Lullaby, do try and cleanse it. That perk is rough for your console brothers and sisters 🥴
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Funnily enough, I actually started playing DBD on my new gaming laptop instead of PS5… and I hit a revelation... I now understand why people say gens are boring...
Good God, skillchecks are so damned easy on PC, I feel like a kid who grew up on gruel and tried chocolate for the first time at the age of 21. It's mind blowing... you literally just click when the line goes over the crit bar... there's no need to time anything at all, you just follow it with your eyes and click... they are so trivial it is embarrassing xD
On console skillchecks are actually hard... you've gotta stay alert and really time it right to hit a great, and the dreaded 4 o'clock skillcheck is brutal. I've had so many close calls and near misses on those skillchecks, I've genuinely breathed sighs of relief when I've clutched an important check... especially when using something like Fast Track or Specialist. BNPs? Butt clench moment every time. Sometimes even Decisive Strike an be an arse.
You put Huntress Lullaby on any of that, good sodding luck...
If people wouldn't get so mad about it, I'd genuinely suggest putting the input lag on consoles as standard for PC, cause I had to stop playing on laptop for fear it would mess me up when I go back to console xD
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Hi,
2300 hr player here with 70% Survivor and 30% Killer gameplay. I play to not camp, to not tunnel and not slug, and try to get at least 5 hooks before someone dies. I also tend to avoid playing meta, often taking quirky and interesting builds on Pig, Trapper and Myers as my mains. I often play the hatch gamble, and even if I win I also tend to give hatch.
My kill rate is sat around the 55%-60% threshold, which definitely does sound like Killers are exceptionally strong... however...
I have experienced games of wildly different success based on what Survivors take. Quite often Survivors I'm against don't take hard meta either, I rarely see syringes and BNPs, Cimmodius teams rushing gens, and really nasty combos like sabotage squads, or power struggle/flip flop users going down under pallets with a buddy nearby using background player. I don't often see players Decisive/Unbreakable with Dead Hard body blocking hits and interrupting my chases.
However... I have faced these things before, and have had extreme difficulty dealing with these playstyles, and been dominated by them plenty of times. I have played against a team of cracked loopers who keep spin teaching me and wasted over a minute of my time with perfect use of checkspots to shut down all of my mind games.
Anyone who has put any real time in to playing m1 killers and has tried to pose a serious threat/to win knows how rough Survivors who know what they are doing and/or going full bore can make it for you.
Yes it is possible to beat down on weaker Survivors even with a meme build, but even in the casual ranks and vs. M1 killers, as a 70% survivor player who also takes meme/off meta builds on Survivor (no exhaustion perks, no iri add-ons, no second chance perks), it's just as easy to dominate an m1 killer if you aren't a mug and don't make a bad mistake... just like killer actually.
The only difference for Survivor is an idiot teammate can throw the game for the rest of you.
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000491#Comment_4000491
You know what could make map into a usable item? Making it so it has unlimited charges and reveals things to the whole team. Make it so map players are like a scout and reveals stuff like pallets for the whole team. Even more experienced players can't know if a pallet has been used somewhere unless they are in a swf and this will help bridge the gap between them.
Key just needs to be made a secondary item so instead of having to backtrack to pick it up you can just bring it with you. As long as it's whole purpose is to literally be thrown away it's never going to be worth bringing instead of the item you want. Also revert blood amber since it's just the add-on version of no mither where it helps the killer more than the survivor.
Flashlight brightness add-ons should actually increase the duration of blinds by more. I think right now they all do like less than a tenth of a second. Alternatively could make it so that brightness increases save stuns so that the person you rescue makes more distance and it's harder for them to immediately go down again.Fog vials need at least 5 charges, the extra utility idea could work but it'd need to include stuff like drastically increasing the thickness. Three charges is nothing.
What could make map into a usable item? Making it so it has unlimited charges and reveals things to the whole team.
I mean it'd be strong, but wouldn't it be kinda boring? Just tap your button every time it immediately ends to keep the effect going permanently? There is nothing really engaging about this cause it's completely free, no reason not to just use it constantly... might as well just have the auras permanently on while you hold the map and cut out the middle man. There needs to be SOME limiting factor, otherwise using it becomes kinda mindless.
I'd prefer the team aura reveal to be the Iri effect, as it fits the Iri design of unlocking a much stronger form of the item and shifts it's gameplay. Syringes allow healing on the move, BNPs perma reduce charges, Fog Vials (if they don't suck) become a short distance sight blocker, Keys become a killer aura reveal, this change to maps fits the mould.
Key just needs to be made a secondary item so instead of having to backtrack to pick it up you can just bring it with you. //..// Also revert blood amber
I like that idea, given that keys have this "open chest" property, it would make make sense keys can be relegated to a secondary slot if you pick up another item.
Iri I don't think would be a problem if it didn't reveal your aura to the killer, though I would miss it's synergy with Distortion, however the other downsides are substantial and the current reveal aura to killer variation does nean this add-on has impact vs. lower tier killers but as you say is an aid to higher tier killers, so I could live with it, it probably shouldn't be perk reliant... I also like the global reveal nature of new Blood Amber since it helps to use it vs. really fast killers off hook... so I'd be sad to see that go as well if it were reverted.
Flashlight brightness add-ons should actually increase the duration of blinds by more.
We already have add-ons for duration. Save stuns is an interesting idea, though sadly that does lean into punish low mobility killers more than high mobility ones... and you rarely get a flashlight save on a Nurse or Blight, cause if they have any sense you are nearby, they can easily push you off. Have been toying with ideas of blind effect or scratch marks, but I'm not happy with either of those suggestions yet. 🤔
Fog vials need at least 5 charges, the extra utility idea could work but it'd need to include stuff like drastically increasing the thickness.
No objections there. More charges are needed regardless. If it's gonna have low charges, it needs to be pretty damned effective, and if it's gonna be less effective, you need to be able to use it preemptively where you are less likely to get max value.
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I feel like Keys are decent for newer players and help a fair bit in SoloQ. Auras are never gonna be as valuable as toolboxes and medkits for highly experienced players, but they are functionally sound for casual players.
Maps are almost there, and in a similar boat that auras aren't ever gonna be valuable enough for highly experienced players, but their almost at a spot where they are good. They need: -
- More charges (I vote 8)
- The bug where the totem add on stops the WoO effect to be fixed. If totems are a concern with 8 charges, have this add-on half them.
- The gen reveal just part of the standard reveal for the user and the beam of light made something separate.
- The iri changed to not be killer reveal since that is keys territory. I vote for having it reveal the Maps aura while channeled, and show any revealed auras to teammates.
Medkits need their tiers made mean something, actually make the Altruism portion matter. Otherwise are fine.
Toolboxes need to have the brown worn tools removed (it has an active detriment). I would also merge the Engineer's and Mechanic's Toolbox into one. I'd also make Commodius worse at sabotaging since it is the best repair toolbox.
Flashlights are fine, though the brightness add-ons should have a purpose of some description, though not sure what. I think Flashlights only problem is they are hard countered by Lightborn. I think LB should be buffed to only prevent blind effects (splash, stun and lunge), not prevent the blind. This would make it so that blind perks (Champion on Lighta and Residual Manifest) can still have an effect.
Fog Vials are overnerfed. They need 2 charges more, or they need 1 charge and some extra utility. I vote for the latter and reusing the PTB notification block and HUD smoke effect to give Fog Vials some more meta use cases.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000322#Comment_4000322
Plot Twist is actually quite a good perk and as a bonus you can meme with it…
But hey making it disable no matter if you managed to pick yourself up or not would be huge nerf.Massively underrated I feel.
Its a self heal that you can use once in the trial and once at end game that simultaneously makes you very hard to spot/hear that has a suprising number of quirky bonuses, including but not limited to: -
- Healing with an active Pig Trap.
- Healing through Pinhead chains.
- Healing while immune to Sadako condemn.
- Healing without dropping Oni blood orbs.
- With Tenacity allows you to heal while moving.
- Can heal during the effects of temporary Broken conditions and pick after it ends.
Very cool perk when you think aboit it
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According to Nightlight.gg, his pick rate at release was 26.0%, last month it was 7.95% and this month it's 6.42%. He's still above average, but given there are as many killers as there are, once the hype dies down it's only natural that killer appearances drop off as people go back to their mains.
Wesker and Huntress are still the most popular killers apparently, but I hardly see them commonly enough to conclude them being such from my perspective.
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The "make use of obnoxious thing before it gets nerfed" mentality of the DBD playerbase is always something that kinda dumbfounded me. Always struck me as a "let's make doubly sure we prove the point"... like when map offerings were being changed.
Like yeah, I was staunch against most of the changes in the PTB and would like a much more nuanced and measured approach, but switching to hard tunneling now is almost like going "Oh you don't wanna make these changes!? Well I'm gonna show you why you should!"
Then it escalates, and instead of said measured approach, we go back to the sledgehammer... sometimes feels the DBD community is it's own worst enemy. 🙃
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@AcesSpeedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000170#Comment_4000170
overdrive is so fun whattt it makes curving insanely fun
but then again i suppose fun is subjective, each to their own and what not, but i would recommend just full sending it with overdrive and going crazy with it. practise makes perfect… and its so funny(and rewarding) hitting people when they think they're on a safe loop and you just curve the entire thing like it doesn't exist xdd overdrive makes it feel even more satisfying imo
i don't think an add on would be bad though, i'd definitely use it. unlike counterweight which i can confidently say i've never used xd the -70% just threw me off completely
Aye it is fun racing with blue, the problem is I'm on console or PC with a pad, so turning around loops is already difficult...
Even if I was back on mouse and keyboard, trying to figure out timings and movement when you have 2 completely different feeling modes bothnin speed and timing, that you don't have a choice on when you trigger or not makes it very difficult to learn Billy and be consistent. 😅
I'd like this add-on just because it would let you make Billy simpler, like he was when he first released, to get solid grasp on him, and then upgrade to Overdrive when you have the basics down. 😅
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The problem was these proposed changes were a complete upheaval of the game formula. The changes were about as subtle as an atom bomb, and impacted so many areas of the game, not just slugging and tunneling... it wasn't really something in "tweak" territory.
I genuinely wonder if these changes were ever intended to hit live, they were walked back so fast and not even a attempt to salvage any of it that it almost looks like a "dump every anti-tunnel and anti-slug mechanic we're considering all at once and see what people get the most mad about" experiment.
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I would play Billy if they gave me an add-on to disable his Overdrive so I could actually develop my muscle memory and learn to curve. Sadly because of Overdrive you can't really practice without this thing throwing you out of whack constantly.
I vote to replace counterweight. That garbage add-on is antithetical to learning the character.
Reduce his TR by 8m but disable Overdrive would be a fantastic add-on for learning Billy, but also for playing OG Billy and Curve Billy.
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
If anything they seemed more oppressive. Like you are on a generator at one side of the map, and u see 2 generators to your left being worked on by groups. U then see legion start running at them and in the end you are screwed unless you start avoiding that side of the map. He gets his instadown much faster and easier as finding 6 people to injure as legion in 2v8 is much easier than the whole team. It also allows him to 1 shot people recently coming out of cages more often. So he was still quite a pain and people played as him just as often this time (80% of the matches)
Interesting… see those were my concerns of what COULD happen… but I dunno, Legion's in my games seemed to keep struggling to retain their power and really slowdown the gens like they did before.
I even won against them on RPD a number of times, which was very rare before (not sure I beat Legion on RPD in previous versions period)… So I dunno :S
I wonder what was the differentiating factor… 🤔 -
@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999292#Comment_3999292
So, just to sum up why this build is not that great. Why not just use fog vials and save yourself a perk slot?
...well I think of several reasons why I'd prefer this over Fog Vials, I've already said a bunch of them, but I'll leave it there. I don't feel like you're particularly open to exploring opinions outside your own.
While it's been a fun topic to debate, getting ones points completely ignored and getting "countered" with a single line that has numerous holes in its logic, it's becoming tedious putting in the effort for the discussion to go nowhere.
Peace.
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999265#Comment_3999265
It's dismissive because of how thoroughly it shows a lack of understanding on how to play survivor. Sacrificing your item and a perk slot for that is not great. It's okay but let's not pretend it's even remotely worthwhile.
If you say so.
I mean I'd say a free aura on the killer to ensure you win a mind game the moment you lose LoS, and at the same time you block your own aura and disable your own scratch marks on demand? Seems a pretty strong effect to me, especially on effectively a 15s cool down for each stack of Distortion. You said yourself this effect on Lightweight and Ghost Notes is strong to reliably lose even high tier killers for the sacrifice of 2 perks slots, not sure why suddenly its weak now, especially when you also get the killers aura at the same time.
You sacrifice a Commodius toolbox and BNP, or a Medkit and a Syringe, those are pretty hefty sacrifices granted, but these are 1 hit wonders, also requiring a perk slot like Botany/Resurgence or Built to Last if you want multiple uses. Reliably extending chase and even losing the killer completely in chase multiple times doesn't look like a slouch in that line, especially considering in can masssively help you get away from a killer returning to hook undetected if they try to tunnel… because you can pop this on demand for an aura read and disable your scratch marks. It's effectively a self Babysitter… especially with Sprint Burst which resets your exhaustion off hook… doesn't exactly sound bad to me.
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@TheGoon224 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999172#Comment_3999172
damn they really just forgot about her, I mean, seriously, at least twins got an attempt at a rework but Artist literally got nothing.
To be fair… Artist has always been good, and her playerbase don't really want for anything on her. She works well.
Survivors don't like her too much, but Artist has never had any real issues with bugs, never really fell out of the meta. -
@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998888#Comment_3998888
Bro is actually saying new blood amber is good. Alright well you know what? Killers do get tons of stuff forever. That's kinda their whole power. But hey if you think that Nurse's power should disable permanently after she uses it once I'm right there with you buddy. Unless of course you have a double standard and think that killers deserve special treatment based on your…. logic.
*with Distortion
Have you tried it mate? I'm guessing by that dismissive response... no.
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The local group of Pig Mains on the forums are aware of bugs head traps yes… sometimes a trap goes off and doesn't kill… but we have tested a few times but as of yet haven't been able to reproduce it… 😥
We've seen about 4 videos of it, but only had it 1 time on one of us in a public game with 3 of us playing survivor… currently we have no idea what the trigger condition was. 😰
If anyone gets a clue please let us know!@Atsuka_Anarchy @AbsolutGrndZer0 @Nun_So_Vile @radiantHero23 @badgerman97 @UndeddJester
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Fun fact. Carmina is the least updated killer in DBD.
She has had literally 1 update since her release, and even that was a universal mechanics change, not a change to her specifically:
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@Pulsar said:
People are worried because, historically, when things have been pulled back, they usually get butchered and remain ineffectual.
Recent memory shows Fog Vials, for example.
More historically? Anti-Slug was pulled back once to be reworked and then got scrapped for multiple years.
Likewise, AFC sounded really good, but it didn't really end up changing a whole lot in terms of frustrating gameplay. If it was bugged and didn't let you unhook yourself, I doubt anyone would even notice.
I think there is a justified worry that BHVR is going to turn the system into something it shouldn't be, instead of addressing (as you said) the issues with the system, which are completely fixable.
We plan to keep the fight for fog vials going right? Ain't no way that chapter should be ending here. ;)
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Good luck at Uni man! I did a games software development course at Uni, it was a programming course that ran parallel to the games design course and we had modules that crossed over.
The main thing I learned from that course regarding game design was a design principle known as Intrinsic Motivation. What this describes in its simplest form is the players incentive to keep playing the game. Things like unlockables (such as chars and perks), currency (bloodpoints and shards) and cosmetics (battle passes and alike) are all examples of this.
Another more gameplay oriented version of Intrinsic Motivation is the feeling I will describe as "close, but no cigar". The idea is that gameplay should not always be about success and dopamine hits, because success doesn't keep a player playing... what keeps a player playing is "Argh! The checkpoint is right there!!!" and feeling like they are improving/progressing to that goal. This takes many forms, but quite often you need things that deny a player, where they just miss, maybe even get frustrated... close... but no cigar.
DBD is obviously a very complex game where applying this principle in DBD this takes many forms, but where it gets tricky is you have 2 very different gameplay loops to manage these principles for. DBD is effectively a race between the Survivors to complete gens vs. Killers trying to kill all Survivors. An example for both sides of this principle in action is just missing that vault/hit while looping, just making the pallet or denying it. Just completing that generator vs. Just making it in time to deny it.
Where this gets hard is the Intrinsic Motivation for both sides is diametrically opposed, and in my opinion the reason DBD should err on the side of the killer is there are 4 Survivor players needing their intrinsic motivation.
In scenario 1: If you have 1 Survivor juicing the hell out of the killer, that player is winning many trades, and just making each vault/pallet. The killer is constantly on their tail and they are slowly losing resources so each encoubter is getting tighter. They have their motivation as the gate is getting closer but theyvare very much in danger. The killer meanwhile is always losing ground with every trade, and isn't motivated to play because the game is already in a losing state and getting worse by the second, they arent close to winning in any form and a comeback becomes more unlikely. This is PvP, and the way it goes... however there are 3 other Survivors who have not had any killer interaction at all... they have no Intrinsic Motivation because their game hasn't even posed a threat to them.
In Scenario 2: If you have the Killer dominating and catching Survivors at every turn, the Killer has their motivation while these exchanges have been going well, there is always 1 bad chase where 3 other survivors can make a comeback. Survivors meanwhile all have their motivation because all of them are feeling the pressure, and all having their close calls, so everyone is engaged in the trial.
This where camping and tunneling comes in as a problem, because whilesoever that Survivor is alive, there is always this looming threat over the killer, so the killer has their motivation still while tunneling... however in SoloQ, the Survivor being tunneling is in the same position as the Killer in Scenario 1, where their chance of winning is drastically reduced... and we also have the issue that the other SoloQ Survivors are also not getting their close calls and threat to their chances applied, or of they are, their agency is with the player being tunneled, not with themselves. They can try to help, but they can't make the killer stop tunneling, and they are also forgoing their win con to try and have a say in their chances of victory… so they also lack Intrinsic motivation in this scenario. The above however does not apply to SWF, who's agency is tied to getting everyone out... thus their Intrinsic Motivation remains intact.
Speaking of agency, this is another important principle of game design thatbis tricky to work around; you should avoid taking away the players agency. The intent of a game is to immerse the player in world with rules they understand, where they can make decisions that has tangible impact towards acheiving the games goal. Again this takes many forms, but within reason you should avoid taking away a players ability to make meaningful decisions, or even shoot themselves in the foot. Being able to make meaningful decisions, even if your only choices are bad ones is a cornerstone of a players investment in the game. If the game dictates exactly what to do and how to play, players feels they are on rails and have no meaningful impact in the game.
The classic example is your choice of weapon, items, upgrades/perks, etc, etc. In these cases, having one blatantly overpowered perk/weapon or w/e that makes all other choices redundant or pale in comparison in value is bad because it means the player has no choices, they either take this choice to compete or put themselves at a severe disadvantage. Massive disparities in things like this are usually traded off with limited availability, ammo, duration, invetory space, etc, so this still retains decision making on the players part.
In gameplay, this also takes the form of your paths to victory. Simpler more linear games tend to retain their agency by posing multiple threats (think multiple enemies/targets), where you have to make use of your resources to get past easily, or save them and take harder routes. In more complex games it usually in the form of different strategies or routes that have their individual advantages and disadvantages.
The challenge therefore is to try and make it so the killer can pose an appropriate level of threat, where we maintain the close calls and near misses/hits in the game, but also ensure that neither side is on an automatic lost cause... while also allowing players to feel they have important decisions to make towards their success in the game.
This is why the SWF/SoloQ issue is such a problem, because SWF inherently has more agency on their fate than SoloQ does,and thus has more intrinsic motivation to play... if you try to give more agency and motivation to SoloQ by secerely cramping the killer, you take away agency from the killer, and you hit Scenario1. The game has to be balanced for both, it's extremely difficult to retain agency and intrinsic motivation for all possible parties in all scenarios.
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998780#Comment_3998780
Okay so you do understand that survivors can only run four perks right? And that distortion only works once before you need to go in chase? Have you never played survivor before?
Have you tried Blood Amber keys with Distortion my guy?
Its actually cracked, and a much fairer version of this gameplay style because it's limited and you actually have to do something/use your head for the value.
This is the kind of thing that is good for the game where you get a strong effect, but limited uses of it... not having a permanent effect that never turns offs. That was the problem of old MFT.
Even killers don't get their pain res/pop/hexes forever, and killers have only 4 perks in play that the Survivors have to figure out vs. the Killers 16. Any permanent boosts to killer mechanics are relatively small, even their permanent builds like the super window vault or pallet break builds need 2 or 3 perks to really get effective, and even then are meme builds that also comes with downside of being stunned for longer by pallets or having to lose 3 or 4 gens to really start paying value.
It isn't a double standard, permanently active (or effectively permanent) effects need to come with effective trade offs.
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998356#Comment_3998356
Omg, perks that are supposed to help survivors against killers are helpful against all killers. Come on dude I know you can do better.
Come on man, I'm not making an unreasonable point. You can't have a combo that gives survivors a permanent and passive means of completely nullifying a standard game mechanic for the killer side. Even Hex: Crowd Control and Hex: Blood Favour, which are both very strong perks that deny a fundamental Survivor mechanic have at least got the grace of being something the survivor team can disable right from the word go, and permanently for the rest of the trial.
I play majority of my games on Survivor man, and even I can see that is just bad design. I gave a solution that would mean the Survivor actually has do something for the strong effect, which even you yourself agree is strong. I even gave them an effect that creates some nice synergies. Lightweight, Ghost Notes, and some combination of Overzealous/Sprint Burst/Circle of Healing/DarkTheory would be a nice little build.
Surely you can do better than supporting an obviously broken effect with no downside just so you can experience the same power trip you hate killers for, without even being the power role…
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I plead dah fifth!
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I personally feel like effects to discourage tunneling would be good, but I'm not so much a fan of flooding the game with a tonne of basekit effects on either side to achieve that goal.
Ideally there would be better tools Survivors could bring against tunneling that wasn't just perks... having anti tunnel methods expanded to give more Survivor options wpuld be good.
I had an idea of buffing Fog Vials to have more utility vs. tunneling. Which involved the following buffs:
- 1 or 2 more charges
- Being in the smoke hides loud noise notifications.
- Being in the smoke hides the survivors status on the HUD (reuse the PTB effect).
- These effects lingers for 4 seconds after leaving the smoke.
In conjunction with hiding scratch marks, this gives Survivors a tool to use that allows them to fast vault windows to get away, allows the use of lockers to hide (and Lucky Star/Iron Will), allows use of Babysitter or Borrowed Time, maybe even Duty of Care to help a unhook survivor get clear.
If we really want to get nuts, we could allow a hooked Survivor with a Fog Vial to use one on hook. Could come in clutch to bait the killer with Camaradarie or Reassurance.
For killers, the unique hook haste effect isn't gonna bridge the gap between M1 and M2 killers, since M2 killers get it too and something that disables on Primary power use coul be clunky… but that effect could be nice. A stronger/longer affect that only applies when in chase might also be good.
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998315#Comment_3998315
Actually this perk combo seems to work quite well against higher tier killers as well being one of the few ways to possibly get away from them so your argument kinda falls apart.
I don't think my argument falls apart at all… because if I am gonna lose you on a mobile killer consistently, I'm sure as hell gonna lose you on a 4.6m/s killer considerably more often.
Unless you have evidence to the contrary the likes of Wesker or Blight is gonna lose you more often than the likes of Demogorgon or Nemesis..
If you manage to ditch me on any of these killers, these faster killers can afford to rush to try to cut you off and are more capable of determining where you can't possibly have gone... whereas m1 and alike cannot reposition quickly to do the same and thus have to give up on finding you.
In a similar vein if I ever do mange to catch a glimpse of you in the distance, it simply takes more time to move to close you down on an m1 killer with a decent chance I can lose you again, whereas faster killers can close that gap very quickly and are more likely to stick on you.
If any of that is wrong, I would like to know how it is.
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998194#Comment_3998194
Yeah and we saw that killers and the devs are 100% fine with needing several anti-tunnel perks to counter basekit tunneling. I don't see why this would be special.
Perks aren't the only things Survivors have vs. tunneling though. Tunneling is a strategy (not a basekit anything), and thus is itself countered by opposing strategies. The problem is these opposing strategies often need high team coordination to be effective, which is why comp DBD not only works around tunneling, but insists on it being a key part of the game.
Is tunneling disproportionately effective in SoloQ? Yes, but not because tunneling is inherently too effective, it's because SoloQ often doesn't/is incapable of employing the usual defences available to Survivor to cramp the effectiveness of tunneling, and thus require perks to make up the difference (that almost all get banned in comp DBD). Camping is the same, and by the numbers, camping is an unbelievably dire strategy... but it works in SoloQ because SoloQ often take the bait. I swear SoloQ are allergic to generators sometimes.
Regarding the matter at hand, the killer has a reduced field of vision, and needs to reposition in order to see anything, this allows survivors to make distance while the killer figures out where they are. Killers have Predator that helps with this, maybe I'm All Ears... but that is about it.
The problem, as always, is being able to make distance this way is disproportionately effective against killers that can't catch back up effectively, and largely immaterial to killers who can. The perks that helps the killer here are good for killers who can recover distance really quickly, or hit through walls... Nurse, Blight and Pyramid Head.
What makes this combo in my opinion too much, is it is basically permanently on, as a result of being an effect granted from the survivor doing what they normally would anyway.
It would work better if it was flipped around, where become exhausted disables the effect, so Survivors have a very good stealth build and can play stealthy, but can't gain monstrous distance with exhaustion as a trade off. This then makes the passive exhaustion recovery make sense.
An alternative option is it cpuld be a totem effect that gets turned off when you get injured, like Overzealous.
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Ghost Face eh?
You 4k at 4-5 gens constantly due to your skill? On a killer with no mobility and no mechanical components to their kit that allows you to subvert loops to get a hit?
How curious. That's very impressive. Without even map offerings to ensure a favourable map either. Your mind games must be Godly. I would love to see your build and play style with a guide showing how you so effortlessly win at 4 gens every single time on such a killer.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
Hey, 🐷 Players! Which one of you did this?!
You also forgot to use Distressing!
I just can't with the ending.... Nancy 💔💔💔
Wesker injected Pig with the Uroboros virus?
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@Deadman7600 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/456189/instead-of-taking-all-of-anti-tunnel-back
May be that they want it to be an entire package which will all be released together. I think that would also let people chill out a bit after this ptb before showing the new stuff off.
Sure… but small incremental changes are much easier to gauge their effect than a full blown Sledgehammer.
Like lets say Elusive was all that was needed to seriously cramp tunneling. If you only explore this mechanic as part of those Sledgehammer changes you don't get to see it in action.
What if we made it so loud noise notifications are disabled within the smoke of Fog Vials (and give them more charges, cause dear God they got over nerfed). Maybe the killer HUD fog effect they have on the hook rework that obscures an unhook can be used when a survivor is caught in the Fog, so that trying to tunnel/interrupt a hook is more ambiguous makes it so you can get baited/duped around the hook? Maybe you can take Reassurance and fake a Fog on a hooked Survivor to bait the killer and waste their time for more gen presure.
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It is an interesting idea that gives Champion of Light and Inner Focus a bit more utility.
Does have a bit of a weird trade off though where you have to somehow find a scenario where you can erase the scratch marks without the killer seeing the flashlight beam doing it... the timing seems so tight that the only way I could imagine it working halfway reliably at all is with maximum duration effects on a pallet blind and hoping your teammate can break LoS. Then ofc there are blood pools that still won't allow the Survivor to get away...
An alternative option tahts a little.more universal mechanic, it could be made part of the blind effects list, where being unable to see scratch marks lasts for 5s after being blinded or something. Given killers can listen through their headphones almost every time for footsteps or injury noises during the blind splash, this will rarely save the flashlighter themselves. For flashlight saves, this won't prevent blood pools, so it gives them a slightly better niche reason to exist.
Combined my Lightborn proposal to make it so the killer can still be "blinded" (so can proc blind perks) but is immune to the blind splash, blind stun while carrying and blind lunge disable (and ofc new blind scratch mark removal), that would be an interesting set of mechanics to make flashlights a little more viable.
Cool to think about.
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What this whole thing has shown me more than anything, is just how much agency and decision making people are willing to remove just so they can stick it to the tunnelers.
... and no I'm not talking about killer side agency, I'm talking about Survivor. So many people are so dead set against tunnelling and slugging, that they were genuinely happy to incorporate rules that meant the killer poses next to 0 threat to them in numerous scenarios and they don't have to think at all. The casual survivor experience is apparently being able to do whatever you want without any risk of punishment at all...
It wasn't even measured, like "well there are a few problematic scenarios, so the killer penalties would be fine if performing a Conspicuous Action disabled the effect". That wouldn't be something I would agree with, but it would have been quite reasonable...
However instead it was "no, you're boosted, these scenarios don't exist or don't matter, stop tunneling and learn to play". Not even a shred of reflection about how this inflicts punishments if you aren't even tunneling, disproportionately affects the roster and encourages 1 archetype of killer above all others.
I even heard people arguing that "casual killers don't tunnel", which completely ignores the point you can get caught by this even if you aren't tunneling, as well as empowering the Survivor bully squads to beat up on and push away all the casual killers so they only have the try hard sweats left anyway...
I play Survivor main, I was surprised to learn I am a Survibor main, but by the numbers, I am quite definitively a Survivor main... and yet... I'm here having to defend the killer side cause these changes were so bad, I was genuinely losing any desire to attempt to win... because even if I did? Who cares when my opponent is effectively a dancing bear being paraded around in shackles?
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I feel like this has only gotten worse since the downvote system came back in.
Used to be that when people disagreed they had to respond and back up their point with receipts to argue for their side, and that inherently makes it harder to be tribal, cause receipts takes effort, and the argument with more receipts tended to win.
Now we have it so any argument with evidence and effort, but going against someone's narrative or pointing out facts that people don't want to hear, can instead just be ratiod and ignored... allows people to stick in their tribal echo chamber.
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@BbQz said:
My feed back has been great? The systems work as intended and the new killer is great, map changes welcomed and the new survivor+ perks are cool and exciting
The fun part is there are plenty of people who disagree with you. Me as an example.
The changes disproportionately hurt lower tier killers, create a lot of scenarios where killers don't want to kill and survivors want to die.
This update would ruin every element of the game that I find stimulating and enjoyable as a 70/30 Survivor/Killer player. TBH to my mind this uodate is so bad, you would have to revert 90% of it for me to consider any part of this ######### show a success.
Does my opinion matter more than yours? No. But as the old saying goes. Opinions are like Buttholes... everyone has got one, and they all talk #########.
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What if I'm talking about Singularity and want it to be authentic?
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@XboxPlayur said:
can’t edit on this amazing website: with the new scenario I could see why they want to implement it for the annoying slugging bleed out killers, but I don’t think that really happens all that much especially with the slugging changes. I mainly see it being used by wannabe sabo bully squads who got beat and want to go next to try and find a weaker killer to bully.
As a tip, you can edit if you switch your browser to desktop mode.
It still a pain cause your autocorrect seemd to keep butchering your inputs and you have to keep screwing around to edit it, but hopefully this helps a little.
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@Birken13 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995972#Comment_3995972
Please take a look at a post I made regarding this. It might be a possible solution:
This is a more complicated logistical problem that what is being described. You're describing effectively splitting the logic of perks and powers depending on which mode the player is in within the same build.
The way the PTB works is it is distributed as a particular build of DBD, the game at base is exactly the same, but with changes at tweaks to the various elements they are updating.
What you're proposing if effectively doubling everything within the same build so you have 2 versions available at the same time to load into the game. This would be extremely cumbersome, error prone and inefficient, effectively requiring a massive code base overhaul to accomodate having dummy versions of whatever features you wanted to change every build that you selectively load based on the mode...
As a console player myself, it's just an unrealistic expectation. It'd be nice if console players could be involved more, but it's completely impractical to do so, especially when plenty of content creators are good enough to help bridge the divide for console players so inclined.
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There is stuff in droves like this. We've created situations where killers don't wanna kill and survivors wanna die 😅
Invocation: Weaving Spiders sack play sounds fun. Take Wicked, and go for it, what is the killer gonna do?Keep screwing around in basement trying to stop you? You run away with your 30s BT, and someone else completes the Invocation. You get tunneled out and gens are 62s a piece and no longer regressable. Hero play. 😅
The creativity opened to Survivor to mess with the killer is insane 😏
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@Jacknalls_Paw said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995850#Comment_3995850
Oh no, yet another content creator who only plays as a killer and has never touched the survivor role in his life-time spent on this game, especially in SoloQ. He'll definitely be impartial, unbiased and acting in good faith, won't he?
Self report that you didn't watch it, 16:30 he explains he plays 80:20 and usually in SWF.
If your actual goal is to ensure fair and balanced argumentation, since you're so keen to promote that, doesn't it track you should at least hear the argument first before you disregard it?
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995545#Comment_3995545
Just like anti-camp was for facecamping and not proxy camping, the anti-slug is for excessive slugging and not strategic slugging. There's a reason it unlocks at 90s. The pinned post from the devs even says as such, acknowledging the necessity of using slugging in certain situations.
Except it does affect strategic slugging... and even forced slugging.
I used to use Tenacity regularly as my favourite perk to slink away from being slugged by the killer. You would be surprised how many situations Tenacity made a big difference for me in a trial, and how many times I wished I had it when I didn't bring it... and no very few of those situations were the 'problematic' slugging. Now it's base kit, and you can slip away, its not exactly a wrak thing... but it was mitigated by the fact it needed someone else to come and pick you up.
Now that requirement isn't there. If it was 90s every time, then fair enough, but it isn't, you get Unbreakable after it's filled one time. Even that might be somewhat manageable if it was a single instance of 90s slug to unlock... except the effect is additive, you don't need to do it in a single instance, whenever you are slugged, the bar is filling.
Even this might be OK, it is was always the killers choice to do it... I mean it isn't good already, bit that would at least be a conscious penalty to the killer decisions... except sometimes as killer you have to leave a Survivor slugged, such as if they go down under pallets and teammate is nearby... its additive. Ive watched players using Plot Twist, Flip Flop and Power Struggle with a teammate nearby to ensure the killer can't pick up, and even if they drive them off... they get stunned by power struggle. The same concept applies even without Plot Twist. This is a little niche but again, the effect is additive, and once Unbreakable is unlocked, this strategy gets even worse... it inly needs to work a few times and the killer is in limbo with no response unless they are a highly lethal killer.
Thats a little niche but for a more normal scenario, let's say the Survivor pulls off a sabo save... wiggle progress doesn't reset... so what does the killer do? Survivors won't come pick them up, cause they gain a buff by staying down and they can stay on gens. The killer can't pick without being stunned, and actually is kinda forced to pick up and eat the stun to avoid giving them basekit Unbreakable. No one has given me a counter to this to date.
So this set of changes isn't just a nuke to mass slugging, it's a nuke to all slugging... you can't slug... so God help you if you are Oni or Twins.
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My big issue is that whichever side comes out stronger doesn't matter, it is the fundamental game concept that upsets me.
I don't share the sentiment that casual DBD is miserable, I wouldn't play the game if I did... but what casual is to me, is DBD feels like a horror game. I am afraid of the killer and trying to avoid them at all times, however at the same time I know I am also reliant on my teammates to survive, so I am also required to take chase. Striking this balance of when to hide and when to run is the main appeal to me, and more importantly, how to make the best of a bad situation...
From a thematic POV, when tunneling or slugging, the killer is using our altruism against us, our natural instinct is to empathise with and help one another... but in horror, that very sentiment can be and often is used against you; altruism often doesnt save you, opportunistic pragmatism does, which is precisely what DBD achieves by allowing players to do this. The fact these things are possible means they must be accounted for when making any decisions, and it all serves the main idea that the killer is a dangerous threat.
From a gameplay point of view, tunneling or slugging are tools in the killers arsenal to assist generating pressure. They are methods of mitigating the time loss incurred by the chase, all serving to ensure the killer poses an appropriate obstacle for the Survivors to overcome.
I won't argue that tunneling and slugging are aren't inherently too strong or weak, because in my opinion it fundamentally depends on the killer who is doing it as to how strong and effective it is, and I've seen vastly different results in effectiveness playing against various different killers, and of course vastly different results based on survivor behaviour in response to tunneling and slugging, and what perks each respective side has in play. The point is the threats of these things have to be accounted for and that is what fuels the horror element of teh game.
As simple example of what I mean, as a soloQ survivor I understand that if I am the only one not hooked yet, and everyone else is, I need to be taking chase from the killer... however I also understand that if no one else is on gens, someone needs to be; whatever time anyone buys doesn't mean anything if no one is on gens. If the killer is trying to tunnel a player out, my teammates may well be all bouncing around the hook for the unhook, that the killer is waiting for to go for their kill. Ideally it should be me going to unhook after as long as humanly possible for the trade... but I can't leave the gen if no one else is picking one up, and if my team unhook with 30s to spare and this survivor gets tunneled out, there is nothing I can do about it without making some God play or save. Me staying on the gen is making the best of a bad situation, where although I want to save my teammate, both for their sake and my own, I have to trust they have some ace up their sleeve or pull something out of the bag to somehow survive this. The pragmatic choice is to ignore your natural instinct and focus on trying to survive. This is the essence of horror, knowing that your choices to pick from aren't always good ones, but you've still got to make a choice.
What really upsets me is by trying to shoe horn a particular playstyle into play, my horror themed tag game no longer feels like a horror themed tag game... it just feels like what it is... just a tag game. In this same scenario in 9.2.0, I know the survivor off hook has BT for 30s, I know if they die I get a whole bunch of buffs while the killer gets a whole bunch of penalties. I know the killer can't slug, because if he does my teammate can crawl away and pick themselves up without any intervention or rrquirement from me to get involved at all. I don't have any difficult choices to make orchestrated by the poor decisions of my teammates or the insidious decisions of the killer trying to outwit me... the game has taken all those concerns away from me at base.
The Entity isn't this vague omnipotent being that dropped us all in a trial with the rules 'escape or die/kill or risk displeased me'; it now feels like a teacher on the bus to the park saying "OK class, here are the rules of the game, make sure you play nice and follow them, lets all have a fun time for everyone".
Maybe I'm just a weirdo.
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I think this is a description correction/mechanics consistency correction.
Vigil as written before affected the overall time, not charges like how all other systems work, which makes it inconsistent and misleading.
- 45s exhaustion recovering 40% faster (40% less time overall) is 45×0.6 = 27s
- 45s exhaustion recovering 66% faster (1.66 charges per second like how everything else works) is 45÷1.66 = 27.1s
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@ChaosWam said:
Frankly, this is beyond anti-tunnel.
Gens can be perma blocked past 6 hooks if you hook a survivor twice in a row and they die, even if you weren't tunneling and are trying to at least secure a kill with 1 gen left.
It's embarrassing at this point, and you may as well forget ever playing Pig or Sadako since their Mori's also trigger the gen speed boost. On top of the extra pallets (aside Haddonfield and Coldwind, thank god for those two maps getting love) M1 killers are going to be a headache.Ah but ChaosWam... we have basekit BBQ and Chilli that our 4.6 m/s butts can waddle across the map to see the Survivors aura before the gens pop!
If the gens don't pop, we get baskeit Pop Goes the Weasel, that our 4.6m/s butt's can waddle over to kick the gen while the Survivor holds W away making mad distance!
But this is all fine! Cause we get a free Clown Antidote bottle when we hook! That ties it all together and makes it all OK right?
I mean why choose Nurse, Blight, Dracula, Ghoul and Billy with their free BBQ and Chilli and their mini POP when you have this? Other mobile killers like Spirit, Unknown, Freddy and Wesker get the full POP even! But it's fine, the Clown bottle makes up for it!
Jeez I'm hot. I need to leave the forums a while...
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995273#Comment_3995273
Because no game should be balanced around what the best players of the game are able to pull off. If you don't understand this, then… I don't know what to say that won't get me banned.
The fact he's getting flustered to the same degree he does when doing one of his Killer challenges on a regular match in the MMRless PTB is wild to me.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995021#Comment_3995021
He doesn't have to "let the person finish the gen", there are options: he can slug if it's really that critical, or just hook. There's one gen left, so up until maybe a week ago when this was announced this was everyone telling us "you have to secure a kill because the game is over".
Given that he went with the hooking option and then won the game, this isn't really making your case that it's a problem. You seem upset that he didn't "win harder" here.
... I am just... I just don't know what to think anymore... I dunno what we're even trying to do with DBD.
So the only thing that matters is whether we win or lose? Really? On a PTB game, this is a valid argument? We have so many effects here that means Survivors gave a trap card on the killer...
Let's ignore the fact that the Survivor is working the gen in Ot'zs face because there is this hanging GOTCHA clause over his head where both he and Survivor KNOW that going after this player is not good...
Let's ignore the fact that if this Survivor didn't let go of the generator, they have to be grabbed off... if Otz does this, he can't kick the gen unless he drops. If he drops to kick it first then he loses 30% wiggle progress, and might not be able to reach a hook. If he hooks first he then can't kick the gen. So to avoid this I have to remember to walk back and lunge… but uess what, even if I lunge I still can't hook, because I stop the gen regressing…
Let's ignore the fact Otz hasn't tunneled and it's still in effect.
Let's ignore the fact he has Deadlock on the most progressed gen and can potentially still hold the gates from popping, the game isn't over, and yet now he can't stop this highly progressed gen. If this gen was 1 tappable at 99, the above grab scenario is now even worse, and a potential loss of a Survivor at gate for doing nothing wrong.
Let's ignore the fact that if he slugs, he loses this Survivor cause they crawl away and pick themselves up, so they have this free getaway clause built in.
The fact you can't see the myriad of ways this can create gotcha scenarios is just dumbfounded to me. It also is so upsetting how many basekit perks killer gets to compensate that really help killers like Wraith and Vecna shine... but do nothing to help the killers who really need it.... and even if it did... this is where we want DBD to go? This switch your brain off, follow the aura nonsense where noone has to think about what they are doing?
I play mostly Survivor, and hate almost everything here... this game is unga bunga slop with this update, all mechanical, no tactics, no thought about trade offs in builds cause half our build is provided for us. We all know the affects in play, and can play around them.
At this point got the whole hog. Add basekit WoO, and basekit Kindred, add Legions gen progress add-on to all killers and Nowhere to hide basekit. Let's remove every last shred of awareness and decision making from the game and focus entirely on chase… kill the lower tiers off properly and let dash slop reign supreme. Let's have everyone become a God damned NPC and kill the human element from the game completely.
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@StudiousTome said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993947#Comment_3993947
How entitled it is to ask me to play a licensed Killer I have to buy when saying he's weak before hand.
It's great you think so. Truly. You are ignoring the presence of the other Killer. It's never going to be 1v8. Also Killers couldn't dream of reaching the level of 1v4 Survivors in this impermanent mode. This comes around every time to release more needless buffs to things that didn't need them. Guide didn't need Blast Mine or Wire Tap. Now there is no point in playing Scout unless you really want to know where the Killers are before someone gets caged.
The parts of Killer powers that add slowdown are severely needed in a game mode that is so chaotic that Killers can win and Survivors can lose. 8k is not the goal. 8 man out means nothing. That's the point. This mode is so fitting in this game that is no longer horror centric that it's mildly frustrating constantly. But maybe that's just DBD.
I think the ppint youre missing is if 2 killers are going after 1 survivor, then there are 7 other survivors in the trial to push objectives.
I had a game the other day where a Wraith and a Spirit were on me, and I had looped them individually (twice overall) for 45s+, before their teammate would come in to make in a 2 on 1 to put me down. In both cases I ran from them as best I could and just holding W to corner and taking whatever crap pallets or windows I could reach, I wasted 10 or more seconds of both their time. In conjunction with their time to walk cross the map to support their teammate and walk back, I effectively waste 2x 20s+ of their time...
Despite me being on death hook, I had more or less single handedly won the game doing this, as it brought so much uncontested heal and gen time for a large bulk of my team.
The point being, if you're getting 2vs1'd by the killers, they are halfing their pressure, and if anyone on your team is doing their job, they you should as a team be doing better overall.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994006#Comment_3994006
First of all, there's a literal UI element that will show you the last hooked survivor. So unless you're also uninquisitive as to what that means or why it exists then you'll understand that there's at least something concerning that survivor.
Second, you could say that about literally anything in the game. This is just complaining about the learning curve of the game and basic game knowledge.
Windows blocking, bloodlust, even anti gen tapping also fit this exact description. And I never saw anyone, even the most biased players, complaining that "anti gen tap doesn't explain what is happening to new players, you have to figure this out on your own, OMG".
I don't wanna be rude, but I am frustrated with how people keep dismiss ingall the concerns around here as "stop tunneling, you're boosted, get over it". So if this comes off curt and dismissive I apologise in advance and it's not intentional... but....
- The UI element that tells you who you last hooked, but also lies to you about that survivors state and actively denies you information even if you aren't tunneling? It's just another thing for the killer to track, and it doesn't even have the courtesy of giving killer a visual readout of the hook stages on the Survivor, they just have to remember it, with the obvious issue that 2 or more identical cosmetic survivors can make this very difficult to remember.
- I thought we we're trying to make the game more accessible, not less. On top of the killer powers, add-ons, perks and basekit effects we already have, we want to cram in load more arbitrary restrictions? At least the anti-3gen mechanic has a slow visually and audibly building warning. Just because somethings are unintuitive doesn't make adding more a good thing.
- Windows blocking is unintuitive, but it's immediately apparent as a directvresult of an action youve taken, and only for that individual instance. It doesn't prevent chaining to another tile, which if you made a vault, you are probably more than capable of doing in most scenarios... it is also temporary, not a complete denial of a fundamental game mechanic and a permanent boost for the other side.
- Bloodlust is not immediately apparent, but it is also prevented by killers using their power, and by breaking pallets, which means most of the time you don't even notice it is even in the game against all but the most m1 of killers, and by the time it kicks in you've already gotten a long chase out of the killer. It is also immediately disabled when you get hit, to which another hit is still needed, and isn't in effect for the rest of the trial.
- When you say anti-gen tapping do you mean tapping generators for a second to stop them regressing? None of that is unclear at all... it's extremely clear from the interface and the generator itself as to what is going on... if anything it is more intuitive that the gen doesn't stop regressed immediately, because with the aim of somewhat reflecting reality, what kind of Jesus hand mechanic can tap a machine and start it functioning normally again.
Yes DBD has a steep learning curve. Not really an excuse to start adding heavy handed, arbitrary and contradictory rules that make it worse.