UndeddJester
UndeddJester
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@BbQz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994006#Comment_3994006
New player don't tunnel. They don't traditionally slug either those concepts only start popping up after some outside influence or the killer starts getting a MMR hurdle and starts thinking of ways to get an edge.
Baby killers have almost no problems winning games consistently since they are vs baby survivors. The problem is this tunneling change is only going to effect mid to high MMR it's actually just going to be buffs for new killers as the haste and BbQ and chili will help them with the biggest problems new killers have finding people to chase. As low MMR players don't stick to gens and hide much more often.
I didn't say they tunneled. I said the rules are confusing. These changes affect you based on who you last hooked and when a player died, whether you tunneled or not.
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Can you imagine being a new player trying to learn these rules on Trapper?
You chase whoever you see, hook a death hook survivor who steps in your trap, and then wonder why you can't kick gens any more.... you logicallyvreport a bug in the forums to say you can't kick gens anymore, and the collective turns round and says "yeah, that's intended... you as the killer, killed someone too fast".
You then learn you also gave Survivors a repair speed bonus too... when they ask why, the response is "because it isn't fun to be killed as a Survivor".
Wild ride on that players emotional roller coaster I'm sure.
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My immediate thought is, unless I'm starting to creep over the 3 condemned threshold, why would I as Survivor care about doing tapes? Its a bit like the previous version of Freddy where he's a mostly bad M1 killer with a teleport, that Survivors have a mostly benign threat that they wander over to deal with as and when they need to.
My second thought is this seems to me to just be an automated Pig timer that is just on automatically on from the start of the trial, but with no actual input or work from Sadako herself. The only agency she could have would be to deny Survivors grabbing tapes and delivering them. Sadakos goal here would be to just keep TVs off at all times, probably using Corrupt Intervention, Deadlock, Grim Embrace for if the opportunity presents itself, and just try to ensure that no one ever gets a tape they can deliver, or if they do, she bats them down and hooks to deny the delivery.
It strikes me as an autopilot slow down mechanic that removes all agency from Sadako, where her game plan is just to try and stall until Survivors get automatically condemned.
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@YuffieGreatestWaifu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993889#Comment_3993889
I think a lot of killers need selective fixes to find that sweet spot of kill ratio. This is needed but now they are going to have make good on their updates and adjust the low tier killers so they do not feel like chores to play.
This is true, and I think the concerns many killers have is this approach brute forces a particular style of play that fits highly mobile and loop lethal killers more than others. BHVR are aware of this, as they've noted they will be lowering these effects for these types of killers...
However the problem of course is many players don't want to play highly mobile killers with high lethality like Nurse, Blight, Wesker and Spirit. Some players prefer trap style killers like Hag and Trapper, some prefer stealth killers like Ghost Face and Myers, some prefer pallet chewing juggernauts like Bubba and Nemesis, some prefer alternative map pressure and tactile killers like Pig and Sadako, some prefer sniper killers like Huntress and Deathslinger, some prefer explosive snowball killers like Oni and Twins.
The way I see it, there are many way you can make killers viable... but these changes pigeon hole the killer to play a specific way, and while I'm not saying "yes tunnel and slug everything", these changes go beyond tunneling and slugging with effects that punish you regardless of context if your best option is to chase the last player that was unhooked... and these styles of killers above naturally encounter these scenarios more.
E.g. As a trap killer, I don't get to decide who steps in my trap... am I supposed to let the death hook survivor go because I hooked that person last? As a Huntress if the death hook survivor off hook runs out into the open for a easy shot, do I ignore it and don't throw? As Oni if I down a Survivor, and there are is the death hook survivor nearby, do I ignore them because I can't hook them? A lot of this doesn't make sense...
So... if we buff killers what are gonna do? Give them BBQ, Bloodlust 4 and POP and say "Go get em champ, don't play to your unique killer strengths, run off and play as Wish.com Blight!"… sounds like I'm being dramatic… but then there is the Myers update, which does kinda hint that killer designs will become pretty homogenous…
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Not everyone doesn't care about Twins.
Also great news as an aside, Lynxi the Twins main beat her cancer! She's a very cool content creator that I'm so glad is doing well. Her take is here:
https://youtu.be/1BjPmaAy81U?si=IsyfKhlwytBbaLA1They ofc need a slew of bug fixes for Twins, and need to be encouraged to go for long leaps instead of crawling up a Survivors butt with Victor. My suggestion was always adjust Victor's recovery based on distance jumped, where a point blank hit is 5s of recovery due to him slamming his face into Survivors, while a far hit takes only a second, and it scales based on how far Victor flew. Would be scary AF hearing him bouncing around like a Spider monkey in the distance.
One of Lynxi's suggestions was to allow Twins to switch locations with each other after a small channel when Victor is out... which might be a really good suggestion with these slugging changes cause it means Charlotte can hook. It would also means tiles and structures that are bad for Victor, the Twins player can switch to Charlotte and be an m1 killer instead.
I would also like to see an animation/audio update. Victor is a fine and creepy little goober, and Charlotte could really give off a powerhouse vibe... but she seems so disinterested and unresponsive... when she gets stunned she gives a disappointed sigh, like she's about to cry. When Victor gets kicked... she does nothing... he's supposed to be her whole world, all the hatred and bile she experienced in life were because they were cojoined, and he was the only thing she ever loved... it devastated her when he died in her chest, and when the Entity brought Victor back to life, her love of Victor is why she's here in the trials at all... someone like this I would think, would be pretty damn pissed at Victor getting kicked or crushed into goop.
The global audio que when Victor is released is creepy and ominous, I love it... but why we don't get more of this stuff? Give me a global bellow from Charlotte whenever Victor dies...
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991727#Comment_3991727
The infinite thing is absolutely not the same. To go with your analogy, how about instead of removing the infinities like they did, instead after three full loops all the doors and windows were blocked? Sure, the killer made a bad play, but now we need a game mechanic to help out the killer. That's what this anti-tunnel is doing.
Also, while I am a P100 Pig main on killer side, I am also a P65 Jill Valentine Main on Survivor. When someone in a match is tunneled, it's usually me. So I get how frustrating being tunneled is. I am still absolutely against these changes.I just want to say I can attest to AGZs proclivity to getting tunnelled... killer's have this man's scent. I can wear a neon shirt and run down the centre of the map.... AGZ is still found first. This man dies too often for our sins… 🥺🥺🥺
It's quite amazing... as a Jill, Killers are all definitely have Nemmy goggles on ... I'm sure of it… 😵💫
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993434#Comment_3993434
Oh, weaker Killers can also totally boost their MMR by tunneling. You have a weak link in almost every team, once you tunnel those out, Gens are slowed down A LOT. Everyone can do Gens, you can be the worst Survivor in chases and go down in 10 seconds every time, but if you are left alone and do Gens, you contribute to the team. If you are tunneled out however, this is one person missing on Gens. Let alone that many Survivors are not efficient and dont spend their time outside of chases solely on Gens.
And I feel that weaker Killers will in the long-term benefit from the fact that tunneling is harder. Because I feel that weaker Killers can make the game way more forgiving when they can tunnel someone out and turn it into a 3v1. I mean, if we take a Killer like Wraith for example, who is not weak, but also not one of the best Killers, you can get vastly different results when you tunnel and when you dont tunnel. And yet, his stats are totally fine, mainly because tunneling exists. But maybe Wraith is a bit worse than it seems, because if you take away those matches where the player tunnels, he might struggle more than it seems.And this would lead to changes to Killers (and nobody can deny that BHVR in the end tries to make weaker Killers feel better, even if it takes some time).
Sure weaker killers can tunnel a weak link, but the same is also true of stronger killers, they too can also tunnel a weak link, and the difference is a weaker killer evetually drops off.
The fact is there comes a point where weaker killers cap out and simply continuing to tunnel doesn't keep working... you'll get 10s chases against a bad player sure, but that will become 20, 30, 50. You start finding that what was once easy to do gets harder and harder especially when you start facing survivors consistently bringing meta perks who have the skill to use them effectively. Inevitably you have to start taking killers who are better at it.
It's the same phenomenon as NOED. You often see killers who are really bad and get cooked all game and keep falling back on NOED. It works for a while, but when the start hitting Survivors who know what they are doing, their ace falls flat more often than not.
The fundamental issue I have with these anti tunnel and anti slug chases is they basically enforce a playstyle skewed towards mobile and lethal killers. This works well for killers with those type of powers, but doesn't for killers that don't.
Taking Wraith as an example, he excels at hit and run, and can tunnel when needed... but he's still fundamentally an M1 killer that players who know what they are doing can cause a LOT of problems. So how would we buff him? Faster uncloak speed? That would work... but it becomes stupid and boring, like Clown and his rework. These changes for unqiue hooks do benefit him, but fundamentally Wraith is mostly the same style of Killer as Blight. Move across the map fast, slight startup to having a fast moving hit, able to return to hooks to tunnel and play hit and run... jjst Blightbis better at it all. The only way to bring him up is to make him obnoxious, he's effectively as good as his power could realistically allow him to go without being ridiculous.
Wraith is a bad example though because he does synergise with and benefit from these changes, but what about Hag? She doesn't benefit from aura read or basekit Pop at all. So what buffs are you going to give her to fit into this new world order? I feel Hag needs a score of changes (mostly to addrss sher camp playstyles and alike), but those changes should retain Hag's Identity... and these proposals do not synergise at all with her power. Hag doesn't get to choose who walks into her traps, it's entirely on Survivors to play careful and not allow her to tunnel without it being very costly for her.
On the other end of the spectrum, does Nurse really care if Survivors get a gen repair bonus? Or can't regress Gens anymore? Does she care if they get basekit Unbreakable? Good Nurses often kill everyone at 4 Gens anyway, she isn't gonna give a damn about killing someone off when she's already ahead even with the penalties.
The big fear on everyone's mind as Killer, is you have killers that fundamentally are incompatible with these proposals. Do we completely rework Sadako and Pig, and turn them into diacount Freddy and discount Chucky? Or more realistically, do we switch killer to keep up? If I can't capitalise on Survivor mistakes when I get the chance, and I can even get bullied by Survivors who are untouchable because of these changes, it seems the answer is, "screw your main, we never liked them anyway".
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993418#Comment_3993418
Hey, my favorite Forum User who likes to twist things around :)
No, I am just saying that a chase of 90 seconds is just too long. As I have written in my other post, we have stats that at high MMR Chases are 70 seconds per Survivor. If one chase takes 90 seconds, you are already way longer than three chases on one Survivor would take you. And then… Do you really think you deserve to win when you take that long? When you take that long to down someone, you probably tunneled a lot and got carried into an MMR-Range you dont belong.
So no, I dont want to shame for no reason, but I also dont sugarcoat that you are the best player in DBD when you "only" take 1 1/2 minute to down someone.
While I do agree that some people lean hard on tunneling, I think the word "deserve" is a bit of a strong/rich word when we have such a glaring disparity in killer strength...
Who deserves to win more?
- The Nurse who downed their first Survivor in 20s?
- The Dark Lord who downed their first Survivor in 30s?
- The Huntress who downed their first Survivor in 40s?
- The Cenobite who downed their first Survivor in 50s?
- The Legion who downed their first Survivor in 60s?
- The Trapper who downed their first Survivor in 70s?
I would argue I'm more impressed by the Legion/Trapper in this case. The fact is a weaker tier killer cannot really tunnel effectively without camping nearby, and if you're camping, you're losing the game assuming survivors don't all come off gens and waste time staring at their teammate on hook.
Returning to hook/camping and hardcore tunneling is a privilege of fast killers who are also highly lethal to reliable crush through Survivor defences. An m1 killer trying to tunnel is flipping a coin on the Survivors skill, perks, and the general awareness of Survivors towards cranking gens.
So I do agree with you that strong killers can artificially boost their MMR by tunneling... but weaker killers... nowhere near as much.
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This is the real kind of content updates I want.
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I have to admit... I do feel Myers was in a pretty good spot with his last set of changes... the only questionable thing left for him was the Tombstone Piece and buffing numbers once that add-on was given appropriate trade offs. I certainly wasn't expecting such a big rework.
The stance switching is interesting, I'd be interested in how he would play out with just that mechanic added... not so sold on the super lunge though, but I guess the question is, how do you make him more viable at higher levels of play?
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I mean to be fair, the game itself has many mechanisms to reinforce/encourage killers to go for the 4k, such as: -
- Merciless Killer ranking.
- Adepts requiring 4k.
- Challenges in tomes often seeking a 4k.
- Bloodpoint rewards specifically for the 4k.
- Lore surrounding the Entity and Entity Hungers ranking showing its disapproval for failure.
- Achievements/Trophies for 4ks and total number of kills.
My personal attitude to it, is I never begrudge the killer for seeking the 4k or playing to win. This is meant to be a horror game, and you should expect the killer to try and kill you at all costs... its in the name of the role after all... and it's trying to create an entity for you to fear... The killer is the obstacle for you to defeat, and what makes DBD unique is that this obstacle is a stronger human player, not an NPC.
Imagine the sequences in Resident Evil vs. Mr X or Nemesis... while iconic, you tend to win these encounters relatively easily because the game wants you to progress… but DBD is trying to make you feel like one of the victims in Texas Chainsaw Massacre, or Halloween, or Nightmare on Elm Street, or Friday the 13th.
The rules of the trial are understood before you begin, and whether you like them or not, you understand the terms of the trial. The killer should be encouraged to an uncooperative opponent, and whatever the killer is doing, the survivors should be adapting accordingly.
I have always maintained, I do not mind being tunneled, if it happens often I'll start taking Off the Record (and rarely has that been the case I needed to). However regardless, as long as my teammates use it and do gens, and don't screw me over by unhooking me in 10 seconds while the killer is still sniffing my fartsr, I just see it as part of the game to watch out for. The killer is trying to kill everyone, that is what I expect them do.
I also maintain that hardcore tunneling is a privilege of higher tier/faster killers. If survivors aren't dumb with their unhooks, they can make tunneling extremely inefficient for majority of the roster… which is why I tens to get way more angry at Survivors than Killers.
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The reason you're seeing this is all the casuals are playing 2v8, so the only players left in 1v4 are the try hards and the sweats.
Much as people like to claim that 2v8 has nothing for survivors to interest them and isn't survivor sided enough, the fact is that 2vs8 is much easier for Survivor than regular DBD, and all the casuals go play that instead.
Take it as a chance to learn bro. No killer worth their salt hasn't at some point had to face bully squads, or take their lumps in a highly sweaty game. Try something like Predator if you keep finding Survivors keep giving you the slip. If nothing else, it'll help you see what they are doing to bamboozle you.
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992693#Comment_3992693
What about fog vials? Was the community right?
Now we just have an useless item that clutter the bloodweb.I just believe that changes that they offered are good.
What they are doing is something bold, but definitely needed.
Anyone can see that Fog Vials were overnerfed. I don't think anyone can hold on to a shred of credability by claiming they aren't. Most people tend to agree they didnt need both nerfs, and this has been the prevelant talking point of Fog Vials since.
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992693#Comment_3992693
Problem is that the forums are currently inundated with folks that were never going to give this update a fair shake. If they end up listening to them, this update will be a complete disaster.
At least don't gather feedback until the PTB hits, because a lot of this update hinges on the numbers.
True numbers will play a big part, but the fact is a lot of these changes are brute forcing the issue. They are very heavy handed and inelegant, so regardless of the numbers I can still be against core parts of the design.
I for example when playing killer don't want a whole bunch of basekit perks granted to me for just playing how I usually play, most notably auras. I refuse to use WoO and Nowhere to Hide on either sides, cause both perks tend to make you lazy with paying attention around you.
Similarly the decision to kicks gens is meaningful with a trade off of lost distance on survivor. Now you might as well cause you have an empowered kick... but on a slower killer who can't get there, or catch back up easily afterwards, this is nowhere near as helpful as it is on a faster killer... unless the haste buff they give is ridiculous... and haste is such a cheap and boring way of making anything viable...
This means if the unique hook changes are weak, then low tier killers are dead, as the benefits all become privileges of fast and lethal killers. If they are strong, then the game becomes brainless... just follow the colours the same way Blight does with BBQ and Lethal, kick gens and run after the Survivor with your free BL3 or 4. There is no balance to strike for me, I'm pointed exactly where I need to go either way, and whether its weak or strong, most of my decisions are made for me. It all bpils down to my chase lethality, it's merely a question of how well I can down that survivor... which again... favours more chase lethal killers. Like as a Trapper or a Hag... what do you suggest I do about getting my haste boost and auras? I have nothing set up on these locations, so I just waste time going there... chase is not where my power lies. Alternative Mori characters like Pig and Sadako get actively punished for using their powers as intended.
So the not tunneling playstyle becomes unga bunga strong or exclusively beneficial to stronger killers, which will be one thing I don't like, but what about tunneling? Surely its better for Survibor... Well call me crazy, but in the same breathe, I as survivor don't want the killer to have Shackles on them that makes me inherently safe against them. Yes it's annoying when a teammate sells me out to Blight by unhooking me when he's barely had chance to move more than a rushes of distance from me... but I should fear the killer at all times, not sit back thinking "you fool, you've activated my trap card" when my team mates serve me up for the killer to tunnel.
Similarly these changes are quite exploitable, like the slugging change. What does a killer do if I successfully sabo a hook? Wiggle progress doesn't regress, he either let's them get Unbreakabale basekit for the rest if the trial, or let's them wiggle of their shoulders to prevent it. What if a survivor lingers for a pallet/flashlight save? I've gotta push them.off, but the longer I take to do so, the closer I get to granting basekit unbreakable. Again… slower killers who can't catch up fast get punished so much harder here no matter how you slice it. I can easily see how I can exploit this against killers, and if someone sabos for me, or pallet camps for me, I can sit staring at him thinking "Hah! What are you gonna do now?".
There are good things in these updates, I'm sure the elusive and the no clip features will be fine. Without the heavy handed penalties, a small haste buff to weaker killers will be fine. The getting faster progressively over time while slugged is also good...
But quite a few of these proposals are very heavy handed changes, that I don't think its unreasonable to voice early concerns, of for no other reason than to give BHVR as much feedback as early as possible to factor into their final designs.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992144#Comment_3992144
It will absolutely help those Killers. If 3% MFT was gamebreaking, we can't say that 5-10% isn't good.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YOCL3KI7VLGP/screenshot-20250831-111039-samsung-internet.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/1OW8EIDWXB3W/screenshot-20250831-111053-samsung-internet.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SQEJHJGKFF9U/screenshot-20250831-111100-samsung-internet.jpg
Keep in mind that my stats do not match up with my Xbox profile. I also have multiple accounts and this one is just the oldest, meaning a lot of my playtime was pre-2020.
I play weaker Killers consistently.
5-10% won't significantly help weaker killers maintain map pressure. 3%-10% is a big deal in chase, not in map traversal, and this is seen in Clown, who has had a 10% Haste increase with his yellows for years, and yet the way you beat him consistently is on the macro game.
If it was say 15-20% Haste while not in chase (5.29-5.52m/s), maybe that's getting there, that's starting to get something akin to Wraith's pressure (who is a killer who himself often resorts to tunneling)... that would be the only way to bring slower killers up to par.
I of course would hate this, as it dumbs down all macro decisions even more, and leans the game even more into dash slop, where every killer is a fast moving with no need to think about macro and trial state, just chase the lights like Blight does with Lethal and BBQ... same as Windows of Opportunity for Survivor... switch brain off and follow the colours.
The basekit BBQ makes everything dumber, characters that would consider long distance aura perks to maximise their potential like Artist, Freddy, Huntress just have it at base... guess we'll just see more slowdown in these killers builds.
But I guess this is the way this game was always gonna go really. Setup killers like Trapper and Hag, and whatever Skull Merchant will be turned into have even less purpose and place in the game, because by design you have to run far afield to chase new survivors in areas you haven't set up in... so what's the point of setting up anywhere?
Some of these changes could be really good... but on the whole, the game just looks more hand hold than ever to me, and I can easily see myself becoming bored on both sides.
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BHVR have made concerted efforts to listen to it's community, after years of not doing so... why on earth would you want to encourage that, just because you happen to agree with this one?
Some examples of issues born of not listening to the community: -
- Hillbilly being completely reworked to have the universally hated overheat mechanic, and falling from one of the most popular killers for both sides instead of just fixing his instasaw add-ons.
- Spirit with no skill based counter play for years due to her non directional phasing audio, leaving survivors to only guess.
- Pig being infamously nerfed on repeat despite being an already weaker killer.
- Instablinds running rampant for ages.
- Nurse and Blight being lightyears stronger than the rest of the roster and taking literally years to get meaningful nerfs.
- Dead Hard and Decisive Strike running rampant for years.
- The infamous kills = skill drama.
Some issues that have been prevented/resolved by listening to community feedback: -
- Twins rework that would have made them utterly broken to play against.
- The Thrill of the Hunt update that made Hexes incredibly oppressive.
- The Mettle of Man meta that fundamentally broke the game.
- The dismantling of the 6.1.0 gen kick meta.
- Numerous perks changes since 7.0.0 that made overpowered perks more reasonable and rather useless perks being made far more viable, with more build options/paths available than ever before.
Now not every instance of listening to the community is good, such as the Freddy and Skull Merchant debacles. That's why it's incumbent on us, the fans of the game to argue and debate with good reasoning to the best of our ability....
Not every change in this update is bad, but not every change in this update is good either. Some changes have the potentialbto be great changes, and some have potential to be bloody awful... one should definitely not encourage the idea that players shouldn't voice their concerns and have BHVR just shunt everything through without scrutiny.
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I don't think this will be the big survivor win a lot of people will think it it.
We don't know the numbers yet... but I will be surprised if all these features make it to live, as unless those unique hook bonuses are exceptionally strong, if nothing changes there will be very big concerns that B tier and down killers are gonna really struggle (more than they already do), especially if not running max slowdown...
If these unique hook bonus numbers aren't strong, then any quirky build is gonna be punished really hard... as a masochist, I do play off meta lower tier killers often, and try to follow a personal rule of no kills until 5 hooks... and my experience of playing like this is you have to accept you can abd will get steam rolled by strong survivor builds, especially on an unfavourable map regularly. Now you don't always face strong Survivor builds, but when you do, you have to hope for a favourable map or you get cooked... I don't mind losing, I lose reasonably frequently to this kind of thing... and even if I win, I often give hatch (and the only times I don't is when Survivors have been particularly egregious with pushing nasty meta in my face)... but the point I'm making is that no matter what, I never want to be in a pushover, and the times I get annoyed as killer is when the game is a blowout.…
One good sabo, one bad chase, one clutch flashy or pallet save, strong toolboxes to break 3 gens early... you just can't try claw back in and try to pose some kind of threat once you're behind by being nice in these scenarios. I have spates where I keep getting rolled and have to take things that are stronger, and in these scenarios trying to handle everything that I need for low tiers often means I've thought to myself "man I just don't have enough perk slots". These changes could help with that, but it looks very rough for lower tier killers if those unique hook bonus aren't crazy good... and if they are crazy good, they will be extremely annoying for Survivor.
I have a feeling survivors clapping for this update will be disappointed when all they face is A tiers and up (if basekit is weak) OR the lower tier killers will have some really strong basekit effects that allows them to forgo some build staples take some really strong combos.... and the top tier killers will obviously be able to do the same (if the basekit effects are strong).
I'm not doom posting... but I imagine we're gonna see a lot of really nasty combos after this change, and there is gonna be a LOT of teething issues with it.
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One thing rattling in my mind at the moment... I'm not sure what I should do vs. a Sabo player…
When they Sabo, do I let the Survivor wiggle off to avoid giving them basekit Unbreakable the rest of the match? Do I drop them and go after the Sabo? If I hook the Sabo, I can't rehook the Sabo if they keep constantly denying my hooks, because I get a penalty... and if I slug them... I give them basekit Unbreakable for the rest of the Trial.
I really don't know how to prevent this... other than Franklin's, which only works on M1s and they can just pick up and carry on. I'm really not sure how I would deal with that.
Please don't make Tenacity redundant... it's my favourite perk 🥺
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I'm hoping to get a subset of these changes not the full whack... cause this 6 hook thing is whack... I also hope they don't hide info from the Killer...
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Also since I'm here:
🐽PIG NERF! SOUND THE ALARM!!!🐽
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@Emeal said:
Uhm… no her power is Tape Slowdown and Teleport. The Mori is for when Survivor fail to fix their tape charges.
I mean the point still stands... if a Survivor ignores tapes and Sadako kills them for it, Sadako is punished by buffing the Survivor side and losing the right to regress gens.
Same thing if a Survivor dies to Pig trap... the killer is punished for a Survivor not doing their trap... now in Pig's case its less egregious because the Pig probably does have to be tunneling to get a head pop... but the point of Sadako is to maintain condemn pressure on Survivors. It's not passive like Pig, Sadako has to track Survivors, time TVs and track tape positions to actively apply Cobdemn pressure in order to force Survivors to do tapes.
No Sadako is ever going to say to themselves "OK this survivor is on 6 stacks now, they have to do a tape, thats great slwodown for me". Every single one will say "One more stack and thats a kill! Which TV is theirs?".
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That man hip fired you like a boss.
Bow down and pay your respects.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/454762/shattered-hope-buff
The Shattered Hope is not a bad perk, I don't understand the constant complains about it. It gives you no value when no one brings boon and boons are not popular because they are quite weak. It's the same if you bring healing perk and face Plague, if you bring overcome and face Billy, if you bring Resurgence and killer has sloppy butcher, if you bring Unbreakable and killer doesn't slug, if you bring object of obsession but you are not obsession etc. Perks are not guaranteed value every game, and the only reason why Shattered Hope is not used is that Boons are not in very good stage. If I bring the new "Last Stand" perk but going against Wraith, meaning that the perk won't activate during entire game doesn't mean that the perk has to be buffed, does it? Are we talking about boosting perks to the point that they gave you value every game? Nice example is distortion, while most killers run 4 slowdowns distortion is waste of perk slot. And I can continue for eons. And making SH being able to destroy dull totems, wth? Poping pentimento on demand? Rip thana and dying light.
Well... I don't agree with that premise. A perks value can be measured in many ways such as immediate impact, cumulative impact, activation requirements/availability, consistency, synergy, etc, etc... and it's the combination of these effects that define a perks strength. As some examples:
Invocation: Weaving Spiders is a decent perk, because while it's activation requirements are extremely harsh, its immediate impact is decent, it is reasonably consistent, has good perk/item synergy and has a pretty strong cumulative effect.
Invocation: Treacherous Crows on the other hand is a very weak perk, because its activation requirements are also extremely harsh, and it has virtually no immediate effect, and a rather miniscule cumulative effect that is easier attained by other means. It doesn't matter that is has the same levels of synergy, and while it has the same consistency as WS, a consistent weak effect is still weak.
If a perk gives a very strong effect but is highly situational, that is fine. If it has a OK effect that is reasonably consistent, that is fine. If it has a niche effect that is very consistent, that is fine... but a niche effect that is highly situation, is a bad perk.
Shattered Hope is the latter... very niche and highly situational. Destroying boon totems is not a strong effect, even if boons are common, because you have to exoend valuableb time to do it, you don't prevent it being lit elsewhere, and the value of breaking the boon itself is dependent on the boon in play. It has synergy value if you have Pentimento, but once Survivors realise you have it, they just won't boon... you deny their perk, but they in turn deny 2 of yours... it is entirely in the Survivors control as to whether you get to use it or not.
So to my mind, the OPs suggestion goes overboard because it's Synergy becomes insane with Pentimento and becomes a consistent immediate and cumulative effect.
My suggestion, while I'm not gonna claim is the best, there are plenty of potential other avenues to make Shatterex Hope an interesting perk, this version becomes a reasonably consistent perk with pretty good synergy that doesn't really have a immediate effect, but does have a pretty strong cumulative effect.
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I think the fundamental issue of DBD is the disparity of killer strength... the fact is a relatively benign change to Survivor may not have much impact on higher tier killers but can have massive impact on lower tiers...
MFT and Ultimate Weapon being fantastic examples. OG MFT was a perk that basically did nothing against top tiers except in the hands of the very best players, and even then wasn't really powerful... but against low tiers it made EVERYTHING harder. In a game where inches on a m1 killer make a big difference MFT made everything take longer... and in some cases put killers (like Doctor and Huntress) in situations where their power was totally negated and literally had no answer but to wait for bloodlust. Ultimate Weapon similarly was not an issue really for lower tier killers, but against upper tiers, it was literally impossible to avoid getting tunnelled with othing BT coukd do to save you, cause the killer could fins uou basically whenever they wanted with no effort required... unless you wanted to sit in lockers for minutes at a time.
I've often wondered if the tier disparity of DBD is actually fine... because there is obviously such a divide in Survivor skill, is it fine to have some killers be deliverately substantially weaker to give something for weaker survivors to face, while stronger killer designs help killers against stronger survivors? It's hard to say.
However with this in mind, and referring to the original question of is Killer getting harder? For A and S tiers nah not really... but for B and below, yes.
Survivors have been getting multiple buffed perks that get stronger and stronger combos with a wide variety of abilities, while killer perks that many lower tier killers rely upon keep getting nerfed.
The best killers in the game don't really care, because they are strong regardless... a Blight can take almost anything he wants, meme or meta builds, and even nothing and still prove a match for Survivors no matter what they take... but weaker killers need particular perks to shore up their weaknesses. The most basic and obvious example being of course Bubba with Bamboozle, and many killers try to resist using Corrupt Intervention... but in the same breathe its undeniably one of the best perks you can take for weaker killers. You can play Bubba without... but it is undeniable he is much easier with Bam.
This tends to mean that lower tier killers run oit of perks slots... you've always gotta give up something... this is how things are for Survivors too... you can't counter everything... but for S and A killers... a lot of the counters... don't really counter anyway. It stands to reason that with the increased strong survivor build diversity (which is a great thing mind you), your choices of killer perks and add-ons matter more than ever, but lower tier killers are already having to try and shore up weaknesses, and simply don't have enough slots to deal with everything.
This is why I believe we are seeing pretty major killer buffs to lower tier killers (Pig has had 1 sideways buff, and then a straight up buff... what a time to be alive).
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@crogers271 said:
I don't see what MMR has to do with it.
There aren't enough survivor players to go around. They aren't secretly hiding at some different MMR bracket.
When they originally announced 2v8 and every version since, I did wonder if 2v6 might have worked better for this reason.
Obviously would need rebalancing, but it was interesting to think about 🤔
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If you're on PC, it's probably you're hard drive being a bottleneck and cracking under the strain of the numerous hard drive intense "enhanced user experience" features that no one asked for that Microsoft keep adding for some reason. Could be a myriad of issues bottlenecking you somewhere.
Yes I hate PCs, as a programmer and former PC gamer... there are a constant pain in the butt, and I deal with their crap all day, I don'twanna deal with it when I get home. While yes offers the best experience... it also requires the highest level of maintenance and troubleshooting of any gaming system. 😅
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989425#Comment_3989425
Fear Of Missing Out. It's what flash sales and limited time events encourage. When people think the event is shorter, they jump in and engage harder before they know it's lasting longer.
The DFS furniture limited time sale has been running for over a decade now 🤣🤣🤣
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I'm less inclined to make this change because unlike Pinhead, Slinger can't circumvent the BT timer by himself by hitting the stationary survivor off of hook. The chain has 100 charges, and a Survivor pulling against him takes 15 charges a second, and Slinger tensioning adds another 2.5 charges a second.
A Slinger who tries to wait out the timer without tensioning the chain himself at all takes 6.67s to break free. With tensioning it's 5.72s.
There is no way for Slinger to circumvent Borrowed Time on a free hit against an animation locked Survivor off hook, as such the Survivors have chances to dodge, and have chances for protection hits both on initial spear, and the actual hit.
Him spearing off hook and Survivors needing to take protection hits is something every survivor should be aware of vs. a Slinger. If you're getting immediately downed off hook through BT, that's a teammate issue, not a Slinger issue, because Survivors who unhook with Slinger nearby should be prepared to take protection hits instead of dumbhooking in front of him and running.
He is 4.4, which means he can't maintain map pressure so well, and unlike Huntress his range isn't infinite. Survivors should not be able loop him near the hook and unhook in his face without that being a throw... as annoying as it is for me as a Survivor when a team made does this, you shouldn't take away the Survivor teams ability to shoot themselves (or their teammates) in the foot. Dealing with stupid teammates is a part of the game.
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It definitely needs something, though the immediate concern with this perk is to rush to break totems and quickly light all your Pentimentos before survivors find them.
This doesn't sound too bad off hand, but all it takes is a Plaything or a Devour Hope to get you started and then suddenly rush them while Survivors are distracted or slugged. The fact survivors also get revealed means you can see auras and defend your totems as you light them with a sufficiently mobile killer like Blight or Kaneki for teb max Pentimento bonus.
I personally liked the idea of a passive buff to the killer based on how many broken totems their are (obviously can still also shatter boons).
E.g. an additional 3% progress removed when kicking gens and a 5% faster pick up rate per currently broken totem.
This would mean that Shattered Hope can be put on a Hex build and empower the killer if their Hex totems get broken, so they aren't jusf left perkless if their Hexes get rushed at the start. It also doesn't immediately synergise with Pentimento, as it would be based on current broken tokens. With Plaything (Fortune's Fool) now being available to all players, that's not a bad little combo a Free To Play player can run.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989138#Comment_3989138
In 2v8, survivors have to deal with literally impossible chases, that happen when both killers target the same survivor.
So it should be fine for survivors to also get unfair stuff, especially when the killer queue times are 25+ minutes.
I don't believe the desire to play Killer is increased or decreased substantially at all based on class strength over previous generations. All we are actually seeing this generation is people genuinely queuing for the role they want to play, because we have the solution of play while you wait.
On the old versions you had to make a firm decision to wait the 15 minutes queue to get a game as killer, now that isn't true. Instead of most players thinking "I cba to wait that long, I'll just play Survivor", people now queue killer, and play survivor between, and is a great feature.
The Sprint Burst on demand is silly, and the above compromise is a perfectly fine solution for vast majority of people... there is no reason to have this class be broken to help killer queue times. No matter how strong Survivor is, the fact is there are far more people proportionally who want duo killer compared to survivors to fill the 8 slots, and the only way to change that is if you make killer so monumentally unplayable that there is no point even bothering to queue at all... which is such a fundamentally flawed way of tackling the problem.
The play while you wait system solves the issue for the bulk of the player base, and the only people who genuinely miss out, are the people who stubbornly only want to play killer side... and I'm sorry to anyone who fits that description, but we all want to play killer... just cause you're a "killer main" doesn't make you more important than anyone else.
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Well... in some ways it's easy to judge, and there have been some less than stellar moments recently. That said, I've never envied the game dev position.
Having to listen to everyone's feedback and filter the gems from the dross is just a Herculean task no matter how younslice it. It's difficult to do that here in just the forums, let alone across Reddit, Twitter, and all other mediums. As the old saying goes, opinions are like buttholes... everyone has got one. Even I have made some horrible takes at times until someone rightly came in and put a boot to my ass. 😅
The biggest problem with game development I see is the issue that buffs are 5 times less impactful pschologocially than nerfs, which is a survival phenomenon in humans based on the idea that there is no real limit on how much you can gain, but there is a definite limit on how much you can lose. This means to keep your audience happy, you need to trend towards buffs instead of nerfs... and this creates a lot of other problems.
This then plays into also another problem that people often don't know what they want. We all say went quality over quantity for releases, where BHVR should take more time to polish things up and fix all the issues... but the reality of that is that many people would absolutely become impatient and start saying things like "game is stale", "devs don't care", etc. Fundamentally these things would need more dev time, which incurs more cost, and realistically should come with a higher price tag... I severely doubt many people would want that... but this is the issue… the gaming market is extremely fickle, and often want to have their cake and eat it too.
Also in terms of getting balance right, that is a constant pain as well. There are scores of ideas that sound cool on paper, but the side effects are often horrendous create a massive problem. For example nobody when asked will say "I think a game should be pay to win"... and yet we have Glitchtrap, and that skin sells extremely well cause of the competative advantage it gives... so... does the playerbase want pay to win, or not? I've seen this kind of thing in many games where 1 thing you can buy makes all other options redundant (such as the Moonbow in Vermintide, the Terran Republic rapid shot rocket launcher in Planetside 2, the Degreaser for the pyro in TF2, or Decisive Strike in DBD). Things can be blatantly overpowered, and something that you have to farm out, or can just buy to get it fast, and it dumps on any other option available to you... and yet, so many players will bold face defend even the most broken and ridiculous of overpowered weapons that sit behind a paywall...
That is obviously 1 example, but there are so many others... and there are times devs should put their foot down and make a firm decision that knowingly annoys their playerbase for the greater good of the game.
I respect that BHVR is making such conscious efforts to listen to its community now, and I think the apologies are a part of that... but in many ways, we gamers are hardly a group that can be called reasonable most of the time... there are many of us that are just outright greedy and selfish, and often want something for nothing... it's a minefield, and I would hope they have to wisdom to know when to listen to the community... but also know when to call us out on our bullcrap 😅
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@Whitey said:
Why did Nemesis even get the pitiful visual detection buffs for zombies instead of the (basically mandatory) speed add-ons? The sound detection range far trumps the visual range is a remotely reliable method of pathing them towards survivors by default.
Also, since we're past pretending the "we can't have more than two zombies" and "we can't have that many AI entities in-game at once" were both outed as an issue with inexperience during Nemesis' design and not an engine limitation, why are we playing with giga-sized maps with two zombies?Hard agree man, it'd be interesting to see if BHVR would have another crack at zombies now, especially after the engine update, you'd think those APIs would be made even easier in the newer Unreal Engine.
However even if not... fast zombies is a bare minimum for sure.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I intentionally left the challenges that spawn those unfinished in my Tomes so that I could have it active every match where I wasn't working on a current Tome. I love bringing my stinky little pal with me everywhere I go. I'll be sad to see it go when they remove the Tomes, but I have a plan to protest that when the time comes.
Ditto man. Justice for tomes!
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@MrPsych said:
Make survivor worse and lengthen killer queues even more? No thanks.
I kinda agree that survivors still need buffs to be competitive in 2v8. If killer teams are any well coordinated at all, games likely end in massacres. I haven't played many killer games, but all of them ended in 6-8 kills, with hatch escapes being the only survivors.
If you think killer is underpowered in 2v8, you're not playing them well at all.
I believe the reality of 2v8 is it is very Survivor sided... but most Survivors playing it are casuals, because 2v8 is easier to win than 1v4... so Survivors suck way harder than normal in 2v8.
If you get survivors who know what they are doing, they cause a lot of problems, but most Survivors are terrible so killers can run roughshot on them. However when you see a good few survivors, they can really cause killers a lot of problems...
Whichever side I play, I tend to do really well... but I definitely feel the impact of a really good survivor much more than I feel the impact of a really good killer.
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My Trapper not getting down or hook points in a KvK mode:
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I disagree, I believe the new Guide is much healthier than the old one, and Blast Mine allows Survivors more options to play around gens, without just being able to flat rush gens like they could before.
The gameplay elements that Blast Mine adds is kicking gens allows killers to see auras around gens and regress them at 200% speed. The auras made kicking gens always profitable for killers and forced Survivors to scatter whenever the killer turned up. Blast Mine means Survivors can try to linger nearby to complete gens if the killer doesn't kick, but if they do kick, or even better guesses they will linger and finds them, then they don't make as much/any distance and likely get chased/downed.
This far better than the old Guide, where a couple of Guides seeking in tandem could crush gens in a little over 30s, with little time for Killers to react. Less than 20s with 3 of them...
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I still have a blast in 1v4 as a Solo Survivor. 90% of the time, annoying things I experience are Survivor induced.
People keep saying doing gens is boring, and I don't understand this perspective... I actually enjoy doing gens, because doing gens means I am instead reading the trial constantly, looking intently at the HUD and mentally tracking things like: -
- timers of hook stages.
- current gen progress.
- completed gens in relation to 3 genning.
- trying to figure out Survivor and Killer perks by paying attention to events and behaviour.
- Killer location and where resources are being used.
- Unique trial elements based on the killer and perks in play (such as Pig boxes and trap patterns, Trapper placement, Pinhead box, grim embrace and pain res procs, Wesker/ Nemesis cures, etc.
There is a lot to keep track of in DBD, and doing gens affords me the ability and time to gather important information on the state of the trial...
Also as I'm on console, hitting great skillchecks is still not all that easy... so that keeps me amused...
I still have a lot of fun in DBD... little sad a lot of people don't... 😕
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Corrected my edit now, apologies folks!
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988660#Comment_3988660
I am not on the side that believes springtrap is weak, however this is wrong, even if you are not looking at the pannel, there is a global audio occlusion when he uses the tp, so there is a tell and its very noticeable and you can prerun accordingly.
Interesting, I haven't heard anything at all on PS5 that gives a hint like you describe.
Do we know uf this is intended? Is it a bug? I don't suppose you have a recording to hand that demonstrates it? Because this is quite a crucial point about the characters strength to my mind... I found a lot of success just running through doors and given I havw run Lethal and BBQ, Survivors thus far haven't noticeably pre-run me when I teleport straight to them.
I can hear Freddy's TP and that's pretty quiet, so if it's not quieter than that then this might be a platform specific issue to report?
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@Ragna_Rock said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988632#Comment_3988632
"Long lasting stealth" His footstep are so loud you have to be deaf to not hear him coming.
His teleport is to set location and so easy to pre-run, better than wraith?! You must be smoking something good because I do not see how set teleports beat fast movement.
Also faster than Ghostface what are you even on about when he stalks? First ghostface is already one of the worst killers in the game if not the worst and he shouldn't be facestalking in chase anyway you supposed to 99 it to then tap it right Infront of them.
Meanwhile big robotic bunny man stomping around isnt going to surprise anybody except meg heads.
if you are flubbing your axes constantly and getting value still you are going against actual NPCs. In what universe should a ranged killer get punished so hard for missing when every other killer form huntess, trickster, artist, nemesis, pyramid head, xeno, unknown, etc do not have to wait as long just to try again, and bear in mind most exept huntress are all 115 the 110 is outdated.
No he is weak, he is sharing a spot with ghost face and trickster both bad killers in the bottom 3
He is slow with a weak ranged attack that when used makes him a M1. His teleports are predictable and abuseable by the surv side. His stealth is weak because he is so loud.
Several points: -
- Footsteps are loud yes, but he is a ranged killer, footsteps only matter when you are in range to hear them. Also footsteps don't matter if you are going through doors, and considering they are all right next to the gens, sometimes less that 4m away, it's moot lost of teh time. Then there is also Glitchtrap, that is much quieter.
- Easy to pre-run, despite no tell (unlees youre staring at door)? You're telling me all 3 survivors on gens come off and run once one player is hooked in case he comes through the door? That's great passive slowdown if true, and a non point if they don't. Do please tell me how you pre-run a character you mostly can't tell is coming or not.
- 4.4 is faster than 3.8 if my maths is correct, not even counting STs teleport, so yes Springtrap has better map mobility than Ghost Face... I'm not sure why you even contest this point.
- Cooldown is not that long for ST at all, and you can choose to be 4.6 whenever you like. It takes less than a second to recall your axe and inflicts no movement penalty doing so, just throw it and then walk around at 4.6, recall it when you need it.
- There are plenty of perks he can take to be more potent in chase, such as Hex: Blood Favour and a general hex build, he is unironically solid with Bamboozle as again he can be 4.6 until he devides not to be, and I've seen people find success with the likes of Knockout to make running pallets much harder. His slow upon throwing is shortlived, and the need to dodge him requires a hard bank from survivor, that on Huntress is mitigated by the fact she is 4.4... ST is not 4.4, so he can use perks to effectively cut off loops paths, zone and walk people down. As I said not Unga Bunga good, but certainly a power you can build and adapt around.
- Springtrap has some crazy trickshot potential with hit Axe arc and can score hits over tiles that other killers bar Pyramid Head simply cannot. You make a big point about Huntress and 4.4m/s, but Huntress players have had years to master her, and the Axes do both behave quite different. Springtrap has only been out a couple of months, we're not really comparing apples to apples here.
Not weak at all, is he Blight tier? No. Is he Spirit tier? Probably not. Is he Wesker/Unknown tier... starting to look about right. He's better than Huntress, I know that much, and last I checked, she wasn't exactly in Myers tier.
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@Ragna_Rock said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YTMV0BC6909D/image.png
Bottom 3 kill rate 😭poor spingus
I'm sure the fact that he's a popular character and played by players who normally don't play killer, and even if they do, don't normally play ranged killers has nothing to do with it. By the same logic, Nurse is weak as she only 3 places higher, and Pig is one of the best killers in the game.
I myself am on console and can make perfectly fine use of his abilities.
- He has a unlimited no-cooldown TP with no limiting factors from survivors to hold a 3 gen anywhere on the map. A far better version of Xenomorph in this regard.
- He has a long lasting stealth that let's him get close for hits easily, especially as a stealth killer not mitigatedby usual movement penalties. He moves at 4.4m/s (and instantaneous teleport) compared to Pig and Ghost Face's 4.0m/s and 3.8m/s. Heck his mobility even beats Wraith in this regard.
- He can zone and go for hits during locked animations just as well as Huntress can, and he becomes 4.6m/s afterwards. Even if you miss, you can just throw and go for m1 hits, and often your zone can leave survivors in positions they can be m1'd.
Even if I flubb my axes on repeat, just my global presence, stealth and 4.6m/s m1 skills with perk synergy is already solid... someone with a strong axe game can be a demon on him...
He is good by any metric, has incredible control of the macro game and a solid skill ceiling. Yes he isn't unga bunga good, where you can force hits whenever you want, you do actually need to know what youre doing... but he's absolutely not weak by any stretch of the imagination.
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I just had a thought... Legion and Twins would be disgusting...
Twins in general I feel would be disgusting in 2v8... although Survivors can kick Victor in the face if they stick as 2s... but for soloQ? Sheesh... that would be pain 😱
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I have had a Vecna and Demogorgon do this for me independently...
I feel as killer, if the last survivor pops the gen instead of ratting for hatch... I let them leave out of respect.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988296#Comment_3988296
They have 70 charges? Since when?
It sure does not feel like it when solo repairing.
Since the first iteration man 😅
The key difference is regression is increased by 200%, so 2 killers interrupting gens makes it a lot harder to finish them; you lose progress so fast... that might be what makes it feel long for you...
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@UnicornMedal said:
I haven't gotten the chance to play 2v8 yet but was Guide really that problematic? I ran it last time and don't remember it being overpowered. The scaling difficulty wasn't strong enough to make gens fly once Survivors started phasing out, even with Guide. But it did help.
I would say so yes... if you ever got a guide chain going (real easy to do in even a duo, and quite often in SoloQ too), you could very rapidly pop gens back to back with little time for Killers to react.
Gens already go faster in 2v8 as they only have 70 charges. So 2 survivors repairing a generator suffer a 15% penalty (or 0.85 charges per second). Normally 2/3 survivors takes 52.94s/42.85s to complete a 90 charge 1v4 gen, in 2v8 this is bumped down to 41.17s/33.33s respectively).
When Guides have their 2nd ability, for every survivor present when they complete the gen, they gain an immediate 5% progres on the next gen they start repairing. 2 Guides get this 10% each, which is 20% overall (41.17s →32.94s), 3 Guides get 15% each, so that's 45% (33.33s → 18.33s).
You can see how this very quickly gets out of control, and a safe someone who plays soloQ mostly the time, it is not uncommon to get this going with fellow Guides, cause Guides are often played by people who want to win.... remember Guides give off auras when repairing, so even 1 smart Guide can link up with other guides.
Now there are deviations, because each hook increases repair speed by 2.5%, and each gen decreases repair speed by 5%, however do also remember each Great skillcheck gives 3% progress too... you add all this up, and the speed Guides in the know could crank gens was actually disgusting.
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I dunno I like the new guide class. Blast Mine gets criminally underrated iin 2vs8 n my opinion, because as well as a "mark this gen as a priority" tool for soloQ, it's also basically a "you can't kick this gen without losing a lot of time" button.
My argument is, Killers in 2vs8 are much stronger than their 1vs4 counterparts, and as such can largely kick with impunity, because they have more than enough tools to catch up/continue exerting pressure. Kicking gens also gives them an aura reveal, wich because this exists, forces survivors to leave and scatter from the gen whenever killers turn up, as they can't stealth nearby to pick it back up when the killer leaves. Killers also have drastically increased regression in this mode, so this forcing Survivors away is an even stringer effect, and all combines toegther to make it so kicking is heavily rewarding for killers.
Blast Mine switches all these advantages back around. Killers can't kick with impunity because they lose time and a lot of distance in doing so, so now Survivors CAN stealth and linger nearby gens close to completion and pick it up if they try to chase, or run if the killer does kick, cause they are stunned for a massive 5s.
With the addition of Wiretap this also serves as useful team information to make use of killers being disabled for 5s (7s if they kick again)... while not the strongest element, it's not unwelcome to my mind.
Old Guide was a little unhealthy cause 2 or 3 guides could go bouncing across gens to rush them back to back, and was rather silly and cheesy once you had it online. I feel like this new version of Guide is better than people think... and being unfairly compared to the old heavily abusable version.... which just isn't fair, cause old Guide was absurdly busted when coordinated.
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Hmmm. Pretty solid, there are a few I'd move a little, but it's typically is only 1 spot up or down...
The only exception for me is maybe Blast Mine, since it's aura reveal and checkmate on the killer can be pretty good. If you place it on a key gen, you can alert your team you're working in that gen, and get some help to finish it. If the killer turns up, they can't kick it without losing a pretty decent patch of time for other actions to complete, and if they leave it to chase you, you have to gen marked for another Survivor to pick it up. It admittedly has a bit of a SoloQ Empathic Connection problem of "you can see me... why have you brought the killer here", but I'd call Blast Mine more than a meme.
On that note... I knew it was Empathic Connection... doesn't stop me spelling it as Empathetic every time zi want it xD
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987915#Comment_3987915
Yeah i think as long as he does not have LOS with a survivor like as in any survivor seeing him or michael seeing a single one he should be reverted back to regular speed.
5.0ms is perfectly fine and balanced as long as his speed is not active in short term or long term chases.
It does comply the lore too
LOS could work, I just figured a set radius was easier to program (see Ghost Face) and more consistent for Myers himself to use consistently, but LOS might be interesting too 😏
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I can only soeak for myself, but to offer a perspectivw od someonw who doesn't like "dash slop", in my case it's a general disdain for fast repositioning abilities and rapid movememt in games. I like to think it does have a little more nuance...
I've been playing games for over 30 years of many genres, and typically speaking for vast majority of games, high mobility or fast repositioning characters tend to be strong in any game...
The ability to reposition quickly allows for sudden/suprising attacks that catch people off guard and are more difficult to react to. Not only that, but these abilities also work well for defence and/or to undo mistakes, because any time they get caught, their reposition ability can undo a mistake.
This typically results in these characters being afforded a much more aggressive play style that can circumvent a number of the more tactile and traditional game elements, usually only limited by mechanical difficulty of execution... and where this becomes frustrating, is these characters can get away with not thinking about areas of the game that other characters have to... usually becoming very popular because they can ignore those elements, but also don't lose those elements either, where really good players can exploit both. This results in a tendency to jack up the potential of a given role and power creep the game, and over time creates an environment where every character has to be a reposition character, or get left behind.
To give some actual examples rather than vague statements: -
- League of Legends has now an abundance of dash based champions, and it became so prevalent that characters who were once considered dash characters (like Ahri), no longer stood out anymore cause dashes were so prevalent... so to fix this, they doubled the amount of dashes had from 3, to an effect that could reach 8 or 9 dashes. Nowadays seeing a character without a repositioning tool is so rare, that the only way to compensate such character is to make them a raid boss with bonkers damage.
- Killing Floor ended up with the Berserker getting buffed to move at 30% speed and breaking the game by being able to eternal lead all enemies behind him that could never catch and kill him, as getting the team killed then luring and soloing the wave as it followed you was easier. This was never nerfed and everything got buffed to match this in the name of "fun", making the game much easier and boring for long term players as it removed all team work elements the game had,
- Marvel Rivals have continuous problems with mobile dive/hit and run characters like Spiderman and Black Panther have to keep getting constantly nerfed despite underperformed because of the way they force the opposing team to completely switch how they play... they don't fight with the team working with each other abilities, they hang out of the fight and instead try 100-0 healers when they are distracted, constantly playimg a game of hit and run/cat and mouse. If ever they are allowed to be strong, they would fundamentally break the game and make half the roster completely unusable.
- Dead by Daylight itself demonstrates it with its complete shift from m1 killers as the normal in the first half of the roster, to being virtually nothing but bash m2 killers with mobility in the latter half of the roster. You'll also notice these characters like Wesker, Blight and Spirit tend to be meta compared to their m1 counterparts, setting a new bar for every killer to meet, that the fundamental design of Trapper, Pig, Myers, etc can never reach... because of this every killer since Skull Merchant has strong repositioning tools and map mobility, and can basically afford to mostly ignore the macro game if they show wish... but also retain the ability to tunnel with impunity because they have the mobility to ensure they can keep up with and focus down a player off hook.
You get the idea... I get quite frustrated at the power creep mobile characters tend to bring to games... and we are seeing in now in DBD... it has often ruined games I used to love, and I would be upset to see DBD go the same way.
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@cestoda5 said:
Touch grass.
Statistics show that touching grass: -
- Give a 32% chance increased likelihood of finding a partner.
- Increases chances of a promotion at work by 15%.
- Causes a 25% reduction in anxiety/panic attacks during social encounters, and on average 40% more social activity.
- Reduces aim accuracy via controllers by 22% and via a mouse by 37% across all games.
- Increased video game deaths by 75%.
- A 200% increased likelihood of believing Call for Duty or Fifa/Madden are the best games released every year.
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The ability I always wanted on him was to move faster at 5.0 m/s when greater than 24m from non-hooked survivors.
This does 2 things for both lore and game play : -
- Aids his map traversal, particularly on Scratched Mirror Myers, he can move across the map easier to mitigate his stalk downtime. Lorewise it mimics Myers behaviour jn the filma where he stalks from afar and disappear quickly from view/seemingly appears places he shouldn't be able to reach.
- Gives him a pseudo Whispers to inform him survivors are nearby. This mimics Myers uncanny abilities to predict his victims moment and always seem.to know where they are.
I also want all but his Decisive Strike to have his pain yelp. While iconic and I don't wanna lose it completely, Myers being silent after a pallet stun would be so much more intimidating...