StudiousTome
StudiousTome
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
Try playing as Nemesis in 2v8 and I think you will change your mind about him very quickly.
How entitled it is to ask me to play a licensed Killer I have to buy when saying he's weak before hand.
It's great you think so. Truly. You are ignoring the presence of the other Killer. It's never going to be 1v8. Also Killers couldn't dream of reaching the level of 1v4 Survivors in this impermanent mode. This comes around every time to release more needless buffs to things that didn't need them. Guide didn't need Blast Mine or Wire Tap. Now there is no point in playing Scout unless you really want to know where the Killers are before someone gets caged.
The parts of Killer powers that add slowdown are severely needed in a game mode that is so chaotic that Killers can win and Survivors can lose. 8k is not the goal. 8 man out means nothing. That's the point. This mode is so fitting in this game that is no longer horror centric that it's mildly frustrating constantly. But maybe that's just DBD.
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@littlehoot said:
I disagree. The reason for Survivors having the abandon mechanic is because there are situations where survivors can do literally nothing to turn the game around. Or are unable to do anything at all (extreme slugging etc). There is no comparable situation for Killers. I've played killer games where I had barely gotten any hooks, let alone kills until EGC and still managed a 4K.
Killers always have agency that Survivors just don't. Hell, I've seen teammates being jerks at the gate, the killer getting a good hit at the last possible second, causing them to fall away from the exit, and subsequently getting killed. Killers are never 'helpless' or denied agency in the same way, so I don't think the abandon feature needs to be added for them in any additional scenarios (I do think that the killers being allowed to DC after a long time of no gens being completed is entirely valid and fair, because some survivors are just Like That).
"Extreme" slugging is the only time Survivors have zero agency barring either Perk that gets them up. 4k is never the goal. It's to spite the toxic Survivors that came before. Toxic Killers exist but are never trying to throw a game. Survivors are given the amount of side objectives they've been allowed to do besides the main of doing gens.
Incompetent Survivors is not the reason Killers have agency. I could spend the entire game denying one Survivors the ability to places 4 boons on a totem for a lengthy amount of time. I'm throwing by not ignoring them. I'm throwing if I let that boon totem stay up. Rarely can Survivors throw if there are still four of them. It's hard to land a hit. It's hard to down after that. It's hard trying to get them to a hook based on item and perk interference. Try doing that several times and you are punished with gens popping. Once the exit gates are open, that's Survivor agency. It doesn't matter if you open the gate yourself or manage to hook someone during the EGC. Rarely do Survivors let you have that.
They added kill on ground if other Survivor is on hook to speed things up. Trying to hook the last Survivor is wasting time objectively.
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@littlehoot said:
I disagree. The reason for Survivors having the abandon mechanic is because there are situations where survivors can do literally nothing to turn the game around. Or are unable to do anything at all (extreme slugging etc). There is no comparable situation for Killers. I've played killer games where I had barely gotten any hooks, let alone kills until EGC and still managed a 4K.
Killers always have agency that Survivors just don't. Hell, I've seen teammates being jerks at the gate, the killer getting a good hit at the last possible second, causing them to fall away from the exit, and subsequently getting killed. Killers are never 'helpless' or denied agency in the same way, so I don't think the abandon feature needs to be added for them in any additional scenarios (I do think that the killers being allowed to DC after a long time of no gens being completed is entirely valid and fair, because some survivors are just Like That).
"Extreme" slugging is the only time Survivors have zero agency barring either Perk that gets them up. 4k is never the goal. It's to spite the toxic Survivors that came before. Toxic Killers exist but are never trying to throw a game. Survivors are given the amount of side objectives they've been allowed to do besides the main of doing gens.
Incompetent Survivors is not the reason Killers have agency. I could spend the entire game denying one Survivors the ability to places 4 boons on a totem for a lengthy amount of time. I'm throwing by not ignoring them. I'm throwing if I let that boon totem stay up. Rarely can Survivors throw if there are still four of them. It's hard to land a hit. It's hard to down after that. It's hard trying to get them to a hook based on item and perk interference. Try doing that several times and you are punished with gens popping. Once the exit gates are open, that's Survivor agency. It doesn't matter if you open the gate yourself or manage to hook someone during the EGC. Rarely do Survivors let you have that.
They added kill on ground if other Survivor is on hook to speed things up. Trying to hook the last Survivor is wasting time objectively.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993921#Comment_3993921
When two people are already dead, one is on hook and the last one just got knocked down, for starters. That's one of the most common use cases of the survivor surrender feature
Most common. What about when Survivors are sitting at gate healing each other to mount an unfair rescue? Free health states and body blocking are enough to warrant a DC from Killers. This is a game to Survivors until that first sacrifice/kill. Then it gets serious. The Killer can still lose and if the remaining three players don't rescue or rescue enough to force two more hook states, it's never on them. It's not tunneling. It's punishing bad behavior given by how much agency Survivors actually have.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993921#Comment_3993921
When two people are already dead, one is on hook and the last one just got knocked down, for starters. That's one of the most common use cases of the survivor surrender feature
Most common. What about when Survivors are sitting at gate healing each other to mount an unfair rescue? Free health states and body blocking are enough to warrant a DC from Killers. This is a game to Survivors until that first sacrifice/kill. Then it gets serious. The Killer can still lose and if the remaining three players don't rescue or rescue enough to force two more hook states, it's never on them. It's not tunneling. It's punishing bad behavior given by how much agency Survivors actually have.
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It's called we were waiting in normal queue(not playing while we wait) and are distracting ourselves with something else longer than 15 minutes. Or we fell asleep. Comes with this ADHD thing everyone has.
Yeah this sucks but it results from BHVR's ingenious idea.
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It's called we were waiting in normal queue(not playing while we wait) and are distracting ourselves with something else longer than 15 minutes. Or we fell asleep. Comes with this ADHD thing everyone has.
Yeah this sucks but it results from BHVR's ingenious idea.
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This is exactly what I think of waiting in normal queue. "Play While You Wait" is a privilege that never should've been enabled. The point of being in queue is to be in queue. How does it work when every Killer is playing while they wait? Do I skip the line if they are still playing? Are they ripped out of the game and replaced with a bot? This is nonsense as an option.
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3981619#Comment_3981619
Lol, no. The main reason Trickster is 115% is because he couldnt be balanced as 110%. In fact, Trickster is still actively being reworked right now, because they arent happy with the current state but it's the best state he can be in right now.
As for the "110% standard", never existed like that. He was released between 115% killers
As for other examples AFTER Trickster being buffed to 115%
Chucky is 110%
Springtrap is 110%
If we're talking killers that "break" the standard" based on other reasons (high mobility/long distance damage)
Blight should be 110% realistically speaking.
Kaneki should be 110%.
Houndmaster nowadays should be 110%(since she gains a huge boost from following her dog).
Billy(when in Overdrive).
Twins (90% of her gameplay is moving around as Victor anyway)
Current Clown (assuming he doesnt get a haste nerf).
110% killers arent going away, but the logic behind 110% killers should be redefined.I've been wanting more 110s for a little bit, so I agree. That being said, skill and mechanics factor into whether a Killer is truly 110. Trickster should be 110 again. Why? Because his knives are now worthless compared to wracking people. Without add-ons anyway.
With skill and undetectable, neither Chucky nor ST are 110.
Every Killer you listed I agree with except Charlotte. I don't use Victor for his speed until Gens are done. Maybe if a Survivor is right there. Charlotte being worthless in map traversal would turn me off playing them completely. It's not a skill issue, it's Charlotte being just as important. Her being "main Killer" doesn't make up for that. They're the Twins. Not "mostly Victor".
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I just had to deal with this. A Survivor saved me from hook, forgot how Survivor/Survivor collision works, and I got speared where the T-bagging usually happens. Just a Ripley that left after screwing me over.
Idc about getting away with the spear not connecting. Just don't allow the basic after to down me. It's crazy how that works...
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Agreed. Sally and Lisa are going at it off-screen and I feel like I'm intruding despite being in the other room.
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Agreed. Sally and Lisa are going at it off-screen and I feel like I'm intruding despite being in the other room.
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Great debate.
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Sure, but ST's cooldown by comparison makes her unable to capitalize like he can. Hit or miss Springtrap is now 115. Huntress doesn't bloodlust for 15 seconds. You have to land the hatchet to gain haste from her add-on. ST gets that for free.
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I'm not saying ST is better in so much that he's new. I doubt he'll have any mechanics changed anytime soon if at all. Meaning he gets to gloat that his axe is summoned at the cost of being 110. Huntress' relationship to Lockers has been here forever unchanged, but Springtrap presents a window of insight in how projectiles could work. Reloading and hatchets disappearing into nothing is what irks me in light of ST's Fire Axe. If Huntress is hunting us she would pick up her hatchet mid-chase or smack pieces together to make one or repair it. She's not a caveman. She would use what was on hand to try to harm you. Like Minecraft or something...
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This. The fact ST's axe is heavy enough to throw over walls seem like a low blow to all ranged Killers. Unless in a building there won't be a ceiling. No other Killer has vertical ability, even the other way. P-Head's chains can't come from underground.
That's why I don't like Pyramid Head's PotD. It's fine to dodge or bait but he can cancel the trail then hit me or fire PotD then hit me coming the other way.
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@R2k said:
Huntress can down all 4 survivors without even chasing them. Springtrap is like an innocent child in comparison
Sure, but ST has map pressure and lengthy Undetectable. Unless Survivor ignores the lullaby, Huntress can't sneak per se. Just snipe. Even with Iri Head, she has to pick up the Survivor. Springtrap can choose to grab you at the cost of still being blinded. The grab takes less time tho, smaller window to blind.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972017#Comment_3972017
i mean if you get hit vaulting a pallet you still get to the other side
Fair enough. It doesn't break the pallet the Killer still has to do that or vault the window. I just always feel the effects of "I lost the chase" when I'm Survivor. I feel like the last person never feels that standing on the Hatch.
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@indieeden7 said:
Are you talking about hitting a survivor not cancelling the hatch escape animation?
Yep. They still act like they weren't just hit. Like a pallet vault with you downed at the end. Just a pet peeve.
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This is how it should be after all Killer Powers that get you close to Survivors. I agree with this in that basic attacks shouldn't punish you for doing them, but lunging out of stealth will never be legitimate. Especially if the Survivor sees you(Ghostface, Wraith, Xenomorph).
Pig's Ambush in an extension of the Crouch. Chucky's Slice and Dice is an extension of Hidey-Ho Mode. Ghostface stares at you. Whether you reveal him, whether he marks you, he chases you at 115 upon standing up. You ever crouched for a while then stood up? Your legs are caught off-guard for half a second. Like getting up too quick. I know this is all Danny has/is, but it gets monotonous from a Survivor's perspective. I don't even want to *play* him if that's all I'm gonna be doing. I'd rather play Myers for slower satisfaction.
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Killer times are long without friends but doesn't need to change when the mode is sided towards them. It's worth the wait.
- You're not being paid more to play Survivor. You're playing with friends. Either you want to play this mode or you don't.
- Let's give the Survivors add-ons attached while we're at it. I find plenty of varying rarity. That's the point, waste time opening this. Only time it's trash is flashlights as those are now eclipsed by fog crystal but we don't need too many of those either.
- Again, that's the point. Killers have to waste time doing that. It's only worth it if one of them is Enforcer. Just because it's unlucky doesn't mean it shouldn't be there or possible.
- We don't need more classes. We already aren't using the current ones to their greatest potential. In soloq, people don't play Guide because it's bad. It needs a rework. The rest are fascinating to the normal Survivor mains because they always use similar Perks anyway.
- Unless you're running ten games straight, not backing out, the server shouldn't have to keep track of that. In DBDM they had exp offerings which are not in base game. Because they are counterproductive to making money. BHVR doesn't run constant micro-transactions thank god so this is what they need to do. Besides the levels reset to need less exp but give less iri shards. Rather that than grind max exp to 999 or something.
- People will play who they want. The game should not discourage playing a Killer if it's not also going to nitpick Survivors for having 4 of one class in a group of 8. I hate anything/Ghostface. You know what would be worse? Two Ghostfaces.
- Totems shouldn't be in the level. It's distracting Survivors from their roles and Killers don't care if you break them. You're vulnerable for the same amount of time but there are two Killers now. It's ill-advised and wouldn't add anything but headaches. Survivors already throw matches by running four boons instead of something that does the same thing without a lengthy back and forth with the Killer. You would still be doing nothing but frustrating everyone else in the match. If this class must exist it should be Small Game/Counterforce hybrid. If you break every totem in the match you get something. Idk what.
- I see the point of this class but why dedicate a Survivor to seeing every locker? Lockers are already encouraging players to wait it out like normal then take one of three hatches. Survivors already have double pallets and vaults across a huge map. Not only can't you use every pallet in one chase, they can repaired in a brief moment. We don't need to be encouraged to hide or be passive.
- Absolutely not. This is a Killer sided mode. Let them have this? Go to 1v4 if you want to harass someone. 2v8 is actually team-based and everyone choose their role. Choosing to be an ######### should not be encouraged. Flash-anything culture is already heavy-handed in Survivors' favor. It doesn't need to come to the mode where you're expected to participate. Flash-anything is throwing until you make the save. Plus they would just give Killers an item drop class if not make FD basekit because it should be. It's bad enough only the red add-on drains more battery. The Perks should to. Be serious and think of this as a horror game.
- Why would Survivors need I'm All Ears when mindgaming is more important to the 2 Killers who are still outnumbered? People who are not near you don't need to see you. Seeing specific auras already overloads the UI. And finally, if you're going to add a class that blocks things it should block for both sides. Move to the next loop. Don't stall the game that's already chaotic due to overstimulation.
Looping is split between Escapist and Scout. You get one play every amount of seconds. Silent vaults or repair pallets to be used again. You will eventually be caught despite God-loops or double pallets because of the team effort of the two Killers.
Guide should be reworked to show gens being worked on instead of just the one being worked on. You're guiding people to a gen that's already full. Your skill shouldn't increase repair speed. It should make missed skill checks become good skill checks for 30 seconds or consuming tokens you accumulate over time. That's Guiding. The game ends as soon as it starts. 8ks should be rare. That's not the point of the mode. It's supposed to be like OW 6v6 or MR. Things. Happening. Teamwork amidst chaos. Once the gates are powered or there are two Survivors left, it's everyone for themselves. Killers double down on patrolling and chasing. Stalling would ruin the active nature of this environment.
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No, run Unrelenting. It's better in general. You need full tokens to be an extra 2% faster even if you use only special attacks on the Obsession. StBfL used to be better but now it's weirdly not worth playing like Myers with every Killer.
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Oh no, Survivors have one less option during uncancelable animations.
Not to be a complete ass about this but this is the point of having multiple options in a scenario. You use the one that works better. Personally I feel like FB should function like Repressed Alliance. Repairing for a certain amount of time over a certain amount of progress seems better with how many gen-rush perks Survivors have. Not pro-Killer as much as not wanting Survivors to depend on locked animations to make plays. It's very predictable and gets stale fast. Eventually Killers will learn to bait you when you do it the same way every time.
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@SkeletalElite said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3913218#Comment_3913218
Im pretty sure they mean remove the sprint burst effect from balanced landing and make it so the perk ONLY removes stagger and drop noises, basically like old tier 1/2 balanced landing when only tier 3 had the sprint burst effect
That would be best imo. Just stagger resistance but not while Exhausted. Don't encourage ppl to abuse it as an all in one perk. As is it doesn't do much on the off chance you're still Exhausted while *choosing* to climb then drop for nothing.
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@kommandantlocke said:
iri quality for killer and survivor what a joke how would u get this done? in this bs game mode
It'll happen. When you forget you are trying for it. Idek if Fuel Gens count towards it. Just go to normals.
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@kit_mason said:
I think what the game doesn't need right now is for disturbed ward main to be even more pointless for the killer to interact with?
Regardless of if you mean that you should get a sprint burst every time you drop off a second floor or if you just mean no stagger on landing.
Fair enough. Every time I use BL, it's to hopefully not have to use it for that 40 seconds. I usually run away from the drop as climbing back up there would be Killer-sided depending on how long it would take. Factoring in Bloodlust if the Killer is that hellbent on catching me specifically. I don't take chases if I don't have to. BL is just something in my pocket.
If I could only use it once per trial, it would still be useful in those moments.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
That would effectively make you absolutely uncatchable if ever on a surface above the ground with a dropdown. The killer dares chase you? Just run to higher ground, then keep running back to higher ground, and again. It would make any second floors safety zones. On top of that, you mentioned you want this so you can sprint burst away from a fall and then use lithe immediatly after. That's even worse. Killers would literally get no hooks on anyone running balanced landing if the map has higher elevation. Well, unless you're blight\nurse\ghoul. What you're actually asking for here is unlimited sprint bursts all match.
Then they would make less floored maps? This is not a perfect change. I wouldn't run Lithe if BL got me out of the Chase. Usually when I drop, it's not through a hole. It's vaulting a window into a free fall. Which eliminates BL in the first place. Dropping through simply a hole in the wall or floor means you're caught. Especially with All-Shaking Thunder.
Running up the same flight of stairs is also asking to be caught. It becomes predictable. I'm looking to end the Chase. Not loop a non-loop. I run something else with BL because it's not enough on its own. It's the worst Exhaustion perk. DWM, Finesse, Q&Q, and Windows of Opportunity aren't Exhaustion perks and have short cooldowns. Finesse requires you to be healthy. Would that be better? BL only if you're healthy because realistically you shouldn't be doing that injured? Disable the suppression effects. Give those effects a cooldown. That's the only thing separating it from SB.
Also, is it not on the Killer chasing across multiple, repeating floors? If the Survivor doesn't have BL, the Killer wins drops. I doubt everyone would run BL on the small chance of it being useless on the randomly selected map. It wouldn't be as meta as you think.
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It's as you said. Gens fly as Killer perks don't affect specific ones. Neither do Survivor perks but they have more to play with imo. 1/16 perks being for gens isn't a net loss.
I agree tunneling shouldn't be done if the Killer doesn't do it to everyone. However a 3v1 is much less stressful during this event in particular. Moreso for 2v1s. I don't play Killer to vibe, nor do I appreciate when other Killers do it. Unless I have a stupid difficult challenge from a Tome. Even then, I didn't accomplish much if I choose to speed up leaving the Trial.
I don't actually care if Killers do this. I can't stop them and it would be a waste of my time. Playing Survivor is boring. I'll still immerse like the Killer is running NOED(which is funny every time. The shock factor is chef's kiss). They getting one hook/mori in that case.
TL;DR Don't tunnel unless you're committed.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907290#Comment_3907290
Having holier than thought teammates gatekeeping perks sure is a good self fulfilling prophecy to ensure a perk stays terrible.
Invocation are rough as it is, the last thing we need are reminders from our own team.
With John Ghoul running around, being broken not a big deal anyways.
Is it not enough that EGC can't trigger bcuz one Survivor say so?
I'm not saying run Invos. They are only situational.
Mobile Killers will always be a threat to Invo perks. Taking a chase to keep them out of the basement is always a losing situation. I agree, Kaneki is overwhelming if ppl don't start waiting to press Attack so they don't put both of us in stop motion again. The extra dashes don't even matter in chase as much as they do Blight.
Why we can't gain haste after he takes a chunk out of us, and he can't eat on the go is beyond me.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/442083/stop-joining-the-circle
better yet, don’t run invocation perks at all. F-tier perks
I'm glad you think so. I don't. I am building around it to make it safe for myself. Then I commit to actual objectives. If the others didn't while I did, oh well. It's not lack of care. It's lack of faith in random ppl helping themselves.
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@TWS001 said:
They are 99% of the time killer perks in the survivors slot.
The crows one is probably the worst perk in the game because of the cost of activating it and then being broken permanently.
The gen one I tested for a couple of days when it first came out. The only use it had was if the survivor team had 3 genned themselves at the last gen. Sneak off to the basement while the killer is fixated on the 3 gen and it can help get the last gen done. Twice it turned the game in my testing but it's too specific a situation to be worth running. Do it straight at the start and you are asking the killer to get you out the game and make it a 3v1 ASAP.
They are Survivor perks. I get what you're saying but that's the point. Sable and Taurie are set up to either get themselves out of the situation that can happen or make it worth it if they don't. The theme of their kit is how their "mainly" to be used. You can build around just the Invo perk with things like Deliverance and No Mither. But it is also dependent on if attention is drawn to the basement. If the Killer assumes you have an Invo perk and catch you in their space, that's the point.
Also is that not the point? 3v1s are winnable, but no one is willing to roll the dice with two other randoms building off what the fourth did or did not do, and a Killer that doesn't know what they're capable of. The only thing I wish is that the Invoker activated the circle for anyone to finish but at half speed. Survivors and risk are supposed to go hand in hand
It rarely works out but that is the point. It is my opinion and I would rather have one person in the basement with the other three doing what Survivors should be doing if they want to escape. I know what I'm risking. To me, they don't. I don't want to encourage the same risk if the others don't have perks to make it less risky for them. They know where I am and should stay away.
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@brewingtea said:
Why do your friends keep joining the circle despite you telling them not to?
Oh, right, this is another issue that affects solo queue and not SWFs…
It is soloq. They aren't my friends and I don't actually owe them anything. Similar to League of Legends, everyone is realistically doing their own thing while working towards a common goal. Even though that isn't scary. Sometimes things shouldn't work out, but not because someone else can't understand the situation. Ppl coming to the basement get in the way trying to escape through the one exit. I can't stop them "helping". I simply wanted to know if anyone else had this problem. 'Tis a forum.
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@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907041#Comment_3907041
I don't know why they don't do this. Perhaps a strong invocation is on the way? Since they requires to sit 60 seconds in the circle - and they have the same penalty - , both invocations should be done at once.
If it is, it will be placed closer to the basement stairs.
Invo used to take two minutes, which I would have absolutely wanted help if it could be spared. Or I wouldn't run it. As is, I run one because I shouldn't be down there, broken, doing another invo. There aren't enough perk slots to make that viable ever imo.
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907092#Comment_3907092
I find it funny your defending the two trash waste of time innovations perks which 95% of smart survivors know its actually a killer perk, but dear someone say oh flashbang(which am going to make a post about) is nerfed to trash now , you shoot down said topic talking about how unfair it is right?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907045#Comment_3907045
While I technically do not believe in sandbagging ngl that is the one time I will do it, I see you loading with no mither(which they make it obvious) and am wasting the killer time in a chase while your doing that ritual voodoo perk then yeah I too get annoyed and do the same lol.
@StudiousTome I do not get why with the many other GEN rush perks like deja vu/prove thyself, commodos with bnp, stake out and many other gen rushing build perks your wasting your time and other people time with this? that same 60 seconds could have just been spent on a gen in the first place specially if you got a good teammate who is looping and wasting the killers time as much as possible. Hate to sound cruel but like no mither your handing the killer a free win with trashovations perks
I value your opinion, I do. I recently discovered how broken Deja Vu is. I thought it was three gens, not every gen as you complete them. It's extremely unfair to any Killer to not have a chance to do anything.
That being said, we shouldn't police who can use what perk. It's pretty useless tbh. Suggestions are fine, but so is me choosing not to do it. I don't believe I'm throwing. I do believe the teammates who go out of their way to run to the basement are wasting time if they don't also have the perk as well. As the fourth Survivor in the match, I can commit to anything and it's to the detriment of the Killer. Trolling or no. Invocation does something. Compared to the 11 other perks a group of four randoms can bring to the table, this is not throwing. At least to me.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907060#Comment_3907060
But it's not a losing play. All gens require less progress? Or wall hacks when a killer scares a crow? That's huge. The other survivors just need to make good use of their time. But I guess when the bar has been lowered such that even that's not expected of survivors, this is the kind of reaction you get.
I appreciate it, but these are bad perks. I'm trying to make them work because Survivors are entitled to all perks. Just like Killers are allowed to use NOED. I personally don't care if they do. But if I say I'm not trying to throw, who would believe me?
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I do agree with you as well. You can deal with it, but ultimately it's inconvenient for both parties. You free yourself from the Killer, all you get is a four second headstart. No haste, no endurance. Not that you should without a perk or something. I'd rather wait to get it from unhook. I will get hooked and rescued since it's soloq.
This game encourages wasting time like no other, whether it works or not.
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@terumisan said:
the problem i have with boil over is on the game map because of certain hook spawns it's impossible to hook some one and it's worse with boil over
I didn't think about it, but whether they wiggle free or not is based on a mini game. While the Killer's agenda wouldn't stop them from drop you and killing you right there, regardless of incurring the Entity's disappointment. Realistically anyway.
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I...don't no what this means. Thanks for posting.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
You can literally use the momentum for boil over if you pay attention to the rhythm, by strafing in the direction you want to go, it just takes a bit of practice lol
I don't see an issue with their perk honestly, the people who cry about them don't want build variety in the game, and that's just silly. Iron Grasp is if you have issues getting to hooks and you want to make it easier, Boil Over is just to waste time in most cases, as it rarely works on an experienced killer without help.Yes. All of this. Yet if these are things that ppl can learn to do, the system that encourages either side to run perks specifically to do nothing for or nullify the mechanic entirely makes me question its existence. Ignoring mistakes is against human nature, yet we do it.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I dont know if such a thread is really a good idea. You are claiming that a helping Survivor does not do any good, yet you are the one actively losing the game for the team because you decide to do an Incovation in the first place.
This is a fair point. One I'm aware of. Having four ppl on a team against one warrants bad ideas. If it works it works. I'd be throwing if I cared about the randoms I play with. It'd be different if I had friends to play this game with. But I don't. I'm running builds to test for whether they work. I'll run an altruistic build if I really want to throw. Everyone rushes to save that fourth Survivor, trying to make it three as fast as possible. It IS possible to win with three ppl, given how much the fourth actually got done. If they were caught, and subsequently rescued and hooked twice more in under a minute, that's on the team that had the advantage once the match started.
The game is simply too imbalanced to consider the idea of a 3v1.
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@Nazzzak said:
Had a team mate with an Invocation perk earlier. The killer had BBQ and yet opted to ignore them in the basement, I'm guessing because he knew they were better off in there than on a gen. He started chasing another team mate and she ran him right into basement to rat out the Invocation user. The situation amused me because it showed just how much these perks are killer perks in disguise - the team mate was annoyed it was in use, while the killer was totally fine with it in use lol personally, I'd drop it from your build.
BBQ is basically just better Territorial Imperative due to needing distance from the other Survivors. It's not worth walking all the way to the basement for possibly one hook. Even if it can leverage time against the other Survivors. Two injured ppl fumbling up the stairs is the worst scenario to add the Killer to.
I know about the toxicity against Invocation. I just haven't dealt with it, only the above example. Which is worse to me than being hooked in the basement. Plus if they want to screw with the whole team effort, we weren't winning anyway.
If Invocations were good on their own, Killers would suffer. WS works because Sable could unhook herself. TC doesn't do much without Eyes of Belmont, and Taurie's whole kit is about being self-destructive to spite the Killer. Shoulder The Burden's being exposed while already broken from Invo or Clean Break balances out. The point is doing what you can before you are sacrifice. Reminds Survivors they should be doing something other than nothing.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
Might be a hot take, but the Invocations would have been so much better if they could stack, like Boons do.
- One interaction to apply both at the same time.Should be combined length of time though. It'd be back to 2 minute which I imagine wasn't too terrible for Survivors. And the speed boost would be somewhat worth it again.
Boons are strong enough compared to Hexes. Hexes don't stack and can't be reanimated more than once. The equivalent to Invocation or Boon-stacking would be the Scourge Hooks in the basement.
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@SoGo said:
I feel like the "speed up the ritual by joining in" part should be removed completely, and instead, the reward should be slightly bigger for each person that joins in for some time.
I'd rather they commit a perk slot to the +100% speed up. They should sometimes be punished for running things that don't help so the devs know which perks need a nerf or buff.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906207#Comment_3906207
Another PlayStation player, right?
Yeah, agreed, dealing with wiggle sucks. Boil Over is especially painful, and I don't understand why it still exists in its current form when it's so lopsidedly strong against console killers. It's annoying on PlayStation, especially getting stuck on doorways. It's a nightmare to go against on Switch: it feels like I'm up to my knees in quicksand or something.
On a related note, Iron Grasp is a super comfy perk to run. (Not a perk I'd recommend using when playing to win, just comfy.)
Imo, it could be reworked to give progress if the Killer goes up or down stairs. Focus more on counterplay that isn't just Killer has to walk funny. I play on Switch and it is inconvenient but I just see it as they came prepared, sacrificing a perk slot that could've been a worse perk like CoL or Flashbang. I notice ppl who run one never run the other.
Iron Grasp is incredible. It adds two seconds to the meter. The hook is assured. The fact it suppresses the wiggle mechanic is just a bonus. If this is the case, I just don't see why the system is still here... Remove the wiggle and the wiggle effects from perks and nothing changes to me. I swear no one runs Breakout and it shouldn't have the Haste as Killers move slower while carrying anyway. Have Boil Over just affect the Killer if they don't go for a hook on their current level. Even if they're heading to the basement Iron Grasp would still lengthen the process for the Survivor on their shoulder.
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@danielmaster87 said:
I've just never agreed with the survivor wiggling having literal impairments to the killer's movement. I get that it's for realism, or just to be another thing survivors have going for them, but any other game would've just stopped at the struggling on the shoulder animation. The mini game aspect is valid, and I've never really thought about it that way. There was a lot of pushback when the skill check version dropped, because hitting all greats led to wiggling off 1-2 seconds faster, which can mean everything in this game. But I'm basically accustomed to it at this point, and don't really complain about it. I just don't like carrying a survivor making me move slower AND I can't even walk straight, bumping into doorways and crap, hence why I hate Boil Over.
If it didn't impair the Killer the hook would be definitive. As useless as wiggle is, I will waste the Killer's time. I'd rather do that than be hooked, immediately rescued, downed again, and lose all that time I could've been chilling by being hooked again. The time the Killer "wasted" doesn't matter at that point. Even though I got two chances.
Boil Over is strong but I feel like it should boost the mini game if it does anything. The mini game taking longer than it is now and BO making I take less time than it does now would make it worth the perk slot. Same with Iron Grasp. It would make the trip easier, but the Killer still wouldn't be able to perma carry.
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No clue. I didn't know that BHVR wanted the Kaneki mains to keep pressing attack after dashing. Even though it does nothing after the first time and is a cutscene's length. This is a forced reset in a chase. For both sides.
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@danielmaster87 said:
All killers should be 115% at this point. I'd almost argue 120%, with how survivors feel untouchable at tiles sometimes. The fact that catch-up killers still need to be 115% are a testament to that. For now, Bloodlust helps fix how broken a lot of the loops in the game are. Which is why people want Bloodlust removed, because they know god pallets are the only thing that straight-up denies its benefit. And so instead of adding in more god pallets, which they know won't happen, they could just axe Bloodlust so that most decent pallets become new god pallets anyway.
You're trying to approach this from a killer's perspective, but all your good points you bring up, you go a completely different direction on. If it's tedious for a killer to have to use their mobility to catch up at a loop (Blight's rush, Vecna's fly, etc), why would them being 110% (even slower) be a good idea? BHVR isn't being lazy at making 115% a new standard (which they really haven't, because Chucky and old Wolf [Dracula] are so recent). They're being smart, because even they realize, "This killer will never catch the survivors at loops if we make them 110%."
It sounds like you are also coming at this from a Killer perspective. Most valid arguments are from players who have fun playing Killers despite the overwhelming disadvantage.
No, Killers shouldn't all be 115. That's a distinguishing layer to the Killer. Making Killer's work for their kills is half of why people play Killer still.
BHVR is lazy because they're not encouraging people to stay in chases unless the Killer's power specifically denies loops. Or you run the W Killer Build. Spirit Fury is run to eliminate the only thing keeping the Survivor at THAT loop. Enduring is to reduce the stun from the pallet as we are blinded by a flashlight. Ruin is run so we have "time" to do either of those, let alone stay in the chase.
Bloodlust should activate even a little bit sooner because realistically the Killer wouldn't play Cat and Mouse. They would ******* kill you. It's a game because Dredge likes to watch and deny the satisfaction of a Mori.
If normal speed was needed for every Killer, Nurse wouldn't be the slowest and the rubric for why 110/115 is better. Even crouch Killers move that slow BECAUSE it's bad and ill-advised unless stealth is your approach.
More Killers at lower speeds would feel better when you did well with them. Chases would be balanced against Survivors so they start caring about them again. As of now Chases are a joke unless you u-turn with precision or take advantage of hitting through windows(and pallets). No Killer with a dash power or ridiculous attack range have need to move quickly, just time their power well.
I'm not the best Killer. I mostly play Survivor despite how monotonous it's become. If they wanted Survivors to sweat they would remove one. Maybe bring back the horror aspect. Survivor/SWF mains would complain but that's because they're the weak link, death or no.
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But how many of those Killer mains are just coasting off a Killer that had everything given to them? Therefore it didn't take long or much effort to shift to perk builds or playing mind games with Survivors. Playing Killer should be fun since it's 1v4. Not getting even a 1k isn't great, but getting a 4k all the time sounds boring as ****.
I can't even tell if I'm going against a high MMR Killer or someone who needs to slug everyone to feel anything.
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The speed boost from getting hit doesn't feel like anything. 3 seconds of 1.5x speed isn't really challenging to a Killer. Nor most Exhaustion perks I've used. I'm not good at chases on either side. Looping was an answer to the "unfair" advantage since Killers are supposed to catch you. I simply don't feel a boost after 15 seconds of playing the Survivor's game.