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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2971253#Comment_2971253
And the nerfed slowdown addons in addition to the FREE base kit change, are still worse than what her slowdown could do before the addon pass.
The free base kit change isn’t even arguably that much more slowdown. It’s increased search time, but decreased travel time. It’s also decreased danger time, because sometimes a survivor knows Pig is in the area (even if Pig isn’t facecamping a box), and has to sneak to the box without being seen, and risks getting stuck in a chase if found, and if they are chased away from the box, that’s even more slowdown in the form of more travel time. Now the survivor knows that if Pig is in the area, they can often just run to a different box, which isn’t even guaranteed to be more travel time since they might be able to risk-free run to it instead of sneaking around Pig to the box that’s near her.
It’s also decreased danger time because having a 5th box without a 5th key means it’s less likely for Pig to randomly find someone near a box, and as mentioned above, danger time can lead to additional slowdown time if Pig finds a survivor when the survivors are patrolling the map for boxes, so decreased danger time is also a decreased potential slowdown time .
"And the nerfed slowdown addons in addition to the FREE base kit change, are still worse than what her slowdown could do before the addon pass."
No, not really. Before, she had two box add-ons and one extra trap add-on. Now, she has two extra trap add-ons and an extra box base kit (with the caveat that a Survivor will never take it off in five searches).
"The free base kit change isn’t even arguably that much more slowdown. It’s increased search time, but decreased travel time."
With an average of three searches per trap, it actually is a meaningful boost to the slowdown, even with the shorter travel distance.
Also, if the Survivor is running away to the far boxes to avoid the Pig, then they are wasting the free travel distance since they're no longer taking the shortest distance between boxes and further extending the stalling (plus further risking the chance of dying to the trap if the timer is already ticking).
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2971202#Comment_2971202
Her slowdown before the addon pass was two +1 box addons, one +1 trap addon, and two +search time addons. The addon pass completely removed the two +1 box addons, and downgraded them to two +1 trap addons, which is a nerf because the +box addons could give additional pressure starting on the first trap, but the +trap addons don’t give additional pressure until the 5th trap is set. They also completely removed the yellow rarity +trap addon, which is a nerf to her slowdown. They also nerfed the slowdown time on one of the +search time addons.
And to be honest, even if this new change is making her slowdown more consistent, it’s still not enough to make up for the amount of slowdown nerfs they gave her during the addon pass. I’d rather the trap timer got an addition 2 minutes slapped onto it, and all the slowdown nerfs reverted, so that she could have consistent slowdown without people worrying about “unfair head pops”. Her slowdown is still much worse than it was before the addon pass, even with the new change.
The only difference between the OG Sketch/Annotated Plan and the current addition of box #5 is that the Survivor won't have to ever hit a fifth box. While that does suck to lose, the trade-off is that you are getting the benefits of the increased slowdown as BASE KIT rather than through a purple add-on. So we get to add whatever two add-ons we want on top of this FREE additional slowdown.
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@katapad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/325314/regarding-the-pigs-five-box-update
"At the start of a match, The Pig begins with three "searches" per trap, or 12 searches in a normal game. Each time she places a trap, a number of the remaining searches is chosen, from one to four. This is how many searches it will take the Survivor to remove the trap."
So then the +1 trap addons would increase the total amount of searches, correct? That would be fairly nasty on 5/6 trap Pig, seeing as if anyone gets a single search, you still have a full set of traps that are guaranteed 3/4 searches.
if you have six RBTs, you could theoretically get two RBTs that only need one Box to remove, but then that would mean that the other four for sure need four searches to get the RBT off (6*3 = 18; 1+1+4+4+4+4 = 18).
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2971109#Comment_2971109
A few of her add-ons are way better now, too
Are you referring to Sketch/Annotated Plan, or am I missing something?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2971097#Comment_2971097
There’s no way of telling if it’s an actual buff to her kill rate without being given kill rate stats. Survivors might average more time on boxes, but with less head pops, and less interactivity with Pig, it’s not possible to know how that would ultimately affect her kill rates.
I’m personally arguing that it feels like a nerf to her kill rate as well, because of the less head pops, and less interactivity with Pig, and because it’s easier for voice comm SWFs to counter her. But I don’t know if it’s an actual nerf since I don’t have kill rate stats.
You can easily determine whether it's a buff or a nerf by reading what's changed.
The Pig was NEVER good at scoring kills with RBTs by design. So the fact that the stronger part of her kit (the stall) was made stronger is a buff. I can't even say that the killing was made weaker because having more chances to search four boxes means having more chances for the RBT to kill (since VERY few competent Survivors will die to a Trap in less than four searches).
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2971081#Comment_2971081
It’s a buff for you, but a nerf for me. I played Pig for the thematic traps that were supposed to have the threat of lethality, but the traps no longer feel threatening.
She’s now like Ringu, where there’s technically a small chance an instant kill might happen, but it’s so rare and avoidable that we shouldn’t bother pretending it will happen often enough to be meaningful.
"It’s a buff for you, but a nerf for me."
That's not how buffs and nerfs work. It's not a stand-in for whether you like it or not. You can say you don't like it (even if your logic doesn't actually work out in your context), but that doesn't change whether that makes the character stronger or weaker.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2971007#Comment_2971007
It might be fine for you, but I’m done with Pig, even those she was my main for a while. I’m not suffering through SBMM with one of the worst chase powers ever, just so I can slow people down, especially when it doesn’t feel like the slowdown makes up for the longer chases she has to endure because her chase power is such garbage.
Pig’s box mechanic right now is just a worse Cenobite box mechanic. They both involve people running around because of boxes, and even if Cenobite might have a bit less average slowdown time, his chase power is way better than Pig’s.
I'm not saying Pig doesn't need more buffs. I'm saying that THIS change here is a buff for Pig.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2970615#Comment_2970615
No; the change made it so that if there are two boxes left, and the survivor hears a terror radius (or if their SWF announces the killer’s location via voice comms), then the survivor can just go for the other box, which means the Pig is less likely to catch people near boxes. Some of my chases are just finding people on boxes, or running near boxes, even when I’m not “facecamping” the boxes. Or if there is a box near a 3-gen, then I’ll be aware of it even if I’m patrolling all 3 generators, and similarly the survivor is more likely to just avoid that box even if I’m not facecamping it.
And I think it would be great if the devs would release the head pop stats from before the addon pass to after the addon pass, because with exception to people face camping with old Amanda’s letter and new video tape, I’d argue the head pop rate went noticeably down because of the addon pass.
That still wastes Survivors' time because they are spending extra time running to another box, which is a good thing. And if the Pig catches them in the act, then it doesn't matter because that Survivor is likely done anyways.
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FYI, you can report the Killer for intentionally griefing you across matches because you didn't want to farm. You'd need video evidence, though, which I doubt you have.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2970282#Comment_2970282
Exactly. The whole point of playing Pig is that she might get head pops, and this is a nerf to head pops, because the worst case scenario is still 4 boxes, but due to the fact there are now 5 boxes, it's easier for the survivors to do the worst case scenario.
I don't play Pig for the slowdown. If I wanted that, I could just play someone else, who probably has a much better chase power.
"The whole point of playing Pig is that she might get head pops"
According to devs, the primary purpose of RBTs is to slow the game down, not to kill Survivors with them. So you're just not correct in that regard.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2970278#Comment_2970278
You're assuming they start going to boxes while the Pig is near them initially. It's much more likely they'll simply delay the initial box runs until they feel they are safe from Pig interference. And that is not "longer distances between boxes", they simply are traveling to other points of interest like generators or to heal each other, for example. The only travel time that matters in this context is when they actually have decided to head toward a new box for a new attempt.
What you're describing with the gens and the healing thing is true regardless of the circumstances and is one of the shortcomings of the RBTs overall (i.e. Survivors who aren't scared of them can push off the stalling they provide). Also, what you're describing is a moot point if the timer starts while they're on the hook, which can realistically happen if Survivors aren't dead set on fully playing around the RBT timers.
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@Mozic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2970305#Comment_2970305
Interesting to consider that very high skill SWFs will now know to count and announce searches to plan around who will have to dedicate more or can dedicate less time to searching. Especially in matches where you get a 4/4/3/1 - that last survivor may likely greed pretty hard knowing they just have the one search.
An even higher skill Pig may be able to count searches as well, in some contexts - it's really juicy info to have and will add a lot of strategic considerations at the upper layers of MMR pig matches
Perhaps. I think that is something that can equally benefit both sides. Though tbh, if a Survivor gets their Trap off on the first search, it doesn't make a huge difference when they get it off unless they take a long time without either searching a box or doing a gen.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
Um... It is still a nerf? Like, all I care about is the headpop. It is not that difficult to understand why people are calling it a nerf.
Would it help if if I said that the new system makes it very likely that at least one person will have to search four boxes, which is the only way a Survivor has a chance to die to the trap (outside of hardcore tunneling, which is pretty gamelosing for the Pig anyways)?
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@Mr_K said:
This changes how I thought the boxes worked.
So, if understanding this correctly, when a survivor gets their braces the game predetermines it will tak 1 to 4 boxes before the hat comes off. An illusion of choice if you will.
If the fourth survivor knows how many attempts it took for their teammates to remove their hats, then they know how many it will take for them to remove, (12 - attempts).
Should still point out the possibility for all four survivors having to search four boxes was removed. A slight nerf, yes? 😉
"Should still point out the possibility for all four survivors having to search four boxes was removed. A slight nerf, yes? 😉"
If I am understanding this system correctly, it also means that if one Survivor gets their trap off in one search, the remaining Traps will come off in 4, 4, and 3 searches (in no particular order). That is big.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2970140#Comment_2970140
That’s not how it works. Pig has no idea which of the five boxes a survivor has already checked, and the farthest box from Pig can be the closest box to a survivor. In fact in that respect it’s actually harder for Pig to patrol the boxes since the survivors never need to go to all of them.
The Pig has a good idea of which area the Survivor will be staying in if the Survivor wants to search the closest boxes because the Pig gets to set the starting location of the Survivor by hooking them. If the Survivor does not opt for that, it means the Survivor is opting to travel longer distances and diminish the time that would have been saved.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2970249#Comment_2970249
It is 100% a Buff. And not hard to understand IMO.
The RNG got removed on the Pigs Side. Instead of having something between 4 to 16 searches, it is a flat 12 Searches for all Traps. While this means that you cannot get the "best case" anymore of every Survivor having to search 4 Boxes each, you also cannot get the worst case anymore, which means that every Survivor would get rid of their Trap at the first Box.
Furthermore, if you get unlucky and a Survivor removes their Trap on the first Box, you know for sure that the other Survivors will take a long time, because there are 11 searches left, which means that there will be two Survivors who have to search 4 Boxes and one Survivor who will have to search 3 Boxes.
I guess the main thing that I am struggling to wrap my head around is how the game calculates which numbers (from 1-4) to choose from when assigning the traps. Like, with this system, that would imply that it is impossible for more than one Survivor to get the trap off in one shot. Is there a pool of numbers to choose from like in bingo or something? One 1, two 2s, two 3s, or whatever? Does the game calculate on the fly which numbers are ineligible for future traps (i.e. once you get a Survivor with one search Trap, the game finds that it is impossible to divide the remaining searches with another one-search Trap)? Idk, this is something only the devs can answer. All I know is that it SEEMS like an even bigger net buff to Pig than I initially expected, as now it is impossible to have more than one Trap be removed in a single search. I will gladly take the buff here.
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So the system is completely changed, from what I understand.
I'm not going to lie, this new system is difficult for me to understand (though the numbers you put forward seem to suggest that it is indeed a buff?). It SOUNDS to me like the Pig starts with 12 total searches (assume basekit) and the game will randomly distribute those 12 searches between the four Traps as she slaps them on the Survivors, since you say that all four traps being removed means that the Survivors did a combined total of 12 searches. What determines how many searches is assigned to a Trap?
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The greatest lie ever told is that Dead By Daylight is a breakfast cereal.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2970039#Comment_2970039
Right, that's why I said it's both a buff and a nerf. You have to search 2.8 boxes on average instead of 2.5, but the time you spend running around to get to the boxes decreases about 20% as well (because there are five boxes they are closer together, plus you only need to check the four "closest" boxes to you and can ignore the least convenient, farther box entirely.)
So whether it ends up being an overall buff or nerf is very hard to say because both factors off-set each other to some degree and it may depend specifically on the map layouts as well.
If Survivor can ignore the furthest box, then so can the Pig. It means the Pig has a smaller area to find the Survivor in (which a higher chance of having to stand still more often in the process).
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
It's a net buff lmao (using maths from @TAG blame them if it's wrong)
Chance of getting head trap off first box down to 20% (was 25%)
Chance of needing to use all 4 boxes up to 40% (was 25%)
As far as I am aware, my math is only wrong if it turns out that they completely changed the system by, like, adding two keys or switching over to a Trapper RNG system.
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@Tizzle said:
If the key is still predetermined it will be in two boxes when the trap is applied.
No idea why anyone would assume it just magically works on the last two boxes.
That would require an unneeded overhaul of how the boxes work and be a complete waste of time.
Not really. The only change that would have to be made is that after three searches, the last wrong box is also changed to a correct box.
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Close. They (net) buffed the base kit to fix the problem by making it harder to find the right box in fewer searches.
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@MrMori said:
The chance that a jigsaw box has your key is determined when you get your trap, not when you search a box. So when people say it's "25%", that's just because there are 4 boxes and they could all contain your key. Right now it's 25%/33%/50%/100%. With 5 boxes it's 20%/25%/33%/100%/100%.
With five boxes, that means you have to search more boxes on average, yes. But remember that they are also now more of them, and they should therefore be closer together. It's also much easier if Pig knows you're on your last box, because you now have 2 options instead of just 1.
It's a nerf I'd say. Very sad that they won't change her power in any other way to make it less clunky and more usable to compensate. It would be so easy to fix her. But I think I'll make a post in feedback about this.
As I've said elsewhere, if the Survivor chooses to search the four closest boxes, the Pig has an easier time finding them because less area to cover. If the Survivor does not, the Survivor is not saving time with the shorter box distances. I would say that is enough to make the 40% chance of having to search four boxes a net buff overall.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2969743#Comment_2969743
Not assuming it's always the case. That's why I wrote "rarely". Probably should have replaced that word with "often doesn't" . Now we are way off on a tangent. 😁
Lol, fair enough. ^_^;;
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2969892#Comment_2969892
the Survivor can avoid that to stay away from the Pig and wastes the time they could have saved with the shorter walk distance.
alternative is having to deal with Pig patroling your last box and dying to it.
There used to be an issue with some big maps that unless you started to search boxes asap you didn't have time to search all 4, that is not an issue anymore.
You are just less likely to kill with your power and if you want to kill with it, it's harder to do.
alternative is having to deal with Pig patroling your last box and dying to it.
That's still doable. You can harass the Survivor if they've been at the boxes for a while. Once you have them in your crosshairs, it's basically an inevitability as long as you don't let up.
You are just less likely to kill with your power and if you want to kill with it, it's harder to do.
I don't see it that way. You are almost never going to kill with the RBT unless they have to search four boxes, which is now 15% more likely under the new system.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2969820#Comment_2969820
it's both.
more time wasted but less likely to kill
Pig has it harder to patrol boxes too.
Either the Survivor can search the four closest boxes and gives the Pig a smaller area to find the Survivor in, or the Survivor can avoid that to stay away from the Pig and wastes the time they could have saved with the shorter walk distance. They can't have it both ways.
Meanwhile, said Survivor now has a 40% chance of needing to search four boxes vs. 25% chance previously, and if the Pig can catch the Survivor after they have failed three searches, that Survivor is likely finished anyways even if the Pig can't just hover around the last box like before. I won't say that the shorter travel distance means absolutely nothing, but I would confidently call this a net buff.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2969672#Comment_2969672
Retaliation leads to more violence. It rarely stops between two people.
I take your eyes. Someone you love takes my eyes. Someone who loves me takes the eyes of the person that took my eyes. The person that took the eyes of the person who took my eyes gets their eyes take by someone that cares for the person. And so on. A never ending cycle until everyone is blind.
Anyway, moving on. This is starting to get way off topic.
That all assumes that there will be someone who wishes to avenge the original perpetrator rather than just condeming the original perpetrator for their actions in the first place.
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@Ruma said:
I guess if you unlocked a tier 3 BBQ for example on Doctor but you havent actually prestiged Leatherface yet, you will get to keep it.
Besides that, how will it work when you got them from the Shrine? Is it insta tier 3?
Regarding Shrine of Secrets:
"The Shrine of Secrets will also benefit from this progression system rework. “There won’t be a teachable rarity associated with the Shrine anymore,” reveals Matt. “You’ll be able to buy your chosen perk tier directly from the Shrine, though the higher tiers will cost more.” Upon purchase, that perk will be immediately available on every applicable character."
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2968147#Comment_2968147
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
No, it only makes two people blind. There are more than two eyeballs in the whole world.
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Cheating - DC Penalty =/= 0.
Cheating - DC Penalty = Cheating + DCing
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@Impalpable said:
Arent you the guy who cried about No Way Out two days ago?
New Sluzzy, perhaps?
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I think there are ways to alleviate the solo/SWF gap without resorting to the nuclear option.
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I DEMAND SPEEDO CLOWN.
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I treat them as Survivor Puddings.
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We need an Artist legendary costume that fires cuccos instead of crows.
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I'd probably just stick with Dead Rising. Off the Record ain't bad either.
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So that no one has to ever **** with a ****. :D
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2965381#Comment_2965381
No, you might as well stick to the existing option of getting the teachable version of the perks you want unlocked rather than prestiging. New players still have to put in hundreds of hours to get working builds (especially as killer), all while starting with level I perk tiers options. This does nothing to encourage new players to try out and continue playing the game.
The existing option of unlocking teachables makes each teachable you unlock dilute the bloodweb further and further, making each Killer you decide to level up have a smaller and smaller chance of getting the specific perks you want. This system lets you ELIMINATE perks from the bloodweb by automaticallly unlocking them for all Killers.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2965412#Comment_2965412
Could have made for some interesting new mechanic that would shift the stale gameplay of gen rush vs camp/tunnel. Always the laziest option with this company.
I mean, this is more or less just "Cypress Mori is now base kit," except it's mandatory instead of optional. I was always on board with that idea, so I can't say I have an issue with that being the solution they went for. Only question for me is why they took so long to actually implement it.
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I used to be against an Alien chapter because I figured it went against the rules of who would be taken in as a Killer to the Entity's realm. That went out the window with Demogorgon, so screw it. Let's do it.
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@JonahsTablet said:
I just genuinely don't care about the other side and that solved all my problems with the game, I don't feel bad about using Nurse, I don't feel bad about using Dead Hard, and I drop a "gg wp" at the end of every match and leave.
That plan don't work if you wish to use a less than meta strat.
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Not only are they not doing that, but BHVR is doing the opposite and ending the game immediately as soon as the last remaining Survivor is downed.
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Oni - The Penguin
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@BrotherLove said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2960873#Comment_2960873
I don't think you understand what afk means. I played the game the way I wanted, the way the Devs allowed. I was not ever afk its just called afk pig. After they got their headsets off I purposely let them live. I wish they would ban me. 7k hours and I cant quit the game. They would be doing me a huge favor and save me $$ on all their skins. But sorry what I did was allowed by the rules.
Did you actually stand still, or were you actually moving around and attacking people?
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It's obviously going to be WLady Dimitrescu.
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@Satelit said:
They were just doing lore accurate Amanda
Yes, the lore accurate Amanda that is so heavy that not even God himself can push her to the side to search the box.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2960429#Comment_2960429
Will players that got gud be able to parry them?
Yes.
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Guns for everyone.
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@Bennett_They1Them said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2959937#Comment_2959937
what was the ptb version?
If memory serves, it was aura reading of anyone within 16 meters of a hook as long as you were carrying someone.
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Hundreds? More like tens. As in less than 20.