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@MrDardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2943786#Comment_2943786
Hooking yourself grants you 100 % more Bloodpoints.
I was thinking you had to hook the Killer.
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@MrDardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2943431#Comment_2943431
No, it's gonna be a BT basekit for Killers.
Only if they make BBQ base kit for Survivors.
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I would gladly trade every other veteran of this game for a more palatable grind.
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@IamFran said:
I trade this for Decisive Strike not activating when all the generators are done, deal?
Done fifty times over. That's a win/win for me.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2940021#Comment_2940021
Doesn't mean it can't feel like that
If it's not the minimum (which we've already established it isn't), then it doesn't matter whether it "feels like that."
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2939984#Comment_2939984
They just could've made a new character, That's all. There isn't much else to say to answer that that goes into detail.
There's just more to be desired than that.
That doesn't necessarily mean that what was done here constitutes as the minimum.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2939967#Comment_2939967
That is also answered. Just because they did something doesn't mean someone else will say they put in a lot of effort. Simple or complex.
Them having done it that way can be said to be a good effort, but the sentiment ot feeling you get by them doing that, can still be as I said above to really see it as not a lot besides the minimum
That's why I ask what is missing from what they did that would constitute effort.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2939961#Comment_2939961
That answered your question, but I'll rephrase it.
What is missing is the sentiment, feeling or however you'd like to phrase it, that bhvr did more than just say David is gay and make a story to make him gay to add a gay character into the game.
That isn't a thing missing from the list of actions that BHVR did. I'm asking what they did not do that could be seen as effort.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2939952#Comment_2939952
Asking that is like asking a rhetorical question. I can say anything as long as it makes me feel like they missed something, even if it may not make sense.
But I'll say this. Bhvr has just not proven to many people that the intent to make David gay and to include LGBT representation is anything more saying "David is gay" and making a story about it. Some people just don't like it.
Maybe sentiment will change. Who knows.
You are certainly welcome to say what you think is missing, since that would answer the question even if I don't agree with you. The thing is that you are straight up not answering the question.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2939942#Comment_2939942
Its not about what is missing, it's about what they did do. They did barely anything. That's my thing I'm saying. There is no intent to David being gay besides "let's make him gay".
So what is missing? That's something you need to think about yourself and why you think it's good representation and not bad. What did they do?
I already posted exactly what they did several posts ago and then asked you what was missing from what they did. Something you have failed to answer despite being asked multiple times.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2939932#Comment_2939932
I have been answering your question.
1: using a pre existing character is less effort.
2: they just made lore to justify it
There is nothing else.
You are not answering the question. I am asking you what is missing. You are not telling me what is missing.
What is missing?
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2939921#Comment_2939921
Thats it. Anyone should be able to say after 2 years just choosing an existing character and saying "their gay" isn't a lot of effort. Even if we factor in the new lore.
Making a new character would show they made a unique character, style, personality, unique lore, or just put in more effort in general.
You're avoiding my question. If you can't explain to me what's missing that would constitute effort, then you can't really argue that there was a lack of effort. If you think that there was a lack of effort, then explain to me what is missing that would constitute effort.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2939913#Comment_2939913
More than saying "David's gay and here's why". That's less effort than making a new character
Still doesn't answer my question. What is missing from the process I described that would qualify as effort?
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2939370#Comment_2939370
A new character just would've been more effort. That's it.
That doesn't answer my question. What is missing from this process that constitutes effort?
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@remoirel said:
all killers are viable because otherwise their kill rate would be in the 5%'s not 50's. 'S Tier' Killers can still lose against the fabled SWF Death Squads just as much as a killer like Clown can win against them. Theres too many factors involved in what causes a win or loss, including what an individual player even classes as a win/loss.
Once you start buffing Killers that are the lowest on peoples tier lists all you're gonna get is a never ending power creep where someone new takes lowest spot until they're buffed, knocking everyone back down 1 slot and the cycle repeats.
"Once you start buffing Killers that are the lowest on peoples tier lists all you're gonna get is a never ending power creep where someone new takes lowest spot until they're buffed, knocking everyone back down 1 slot and the cycle repeats."
Dead By Daylight has one HUGE difference that changes the equation: Killers play against Survivors, not other Killers. When an individual Killer is buffed or nerfed, other Killers are not made relatively better or worse because the Survivors function the same across the board. How viable a Trapper is against Survivors has no bearing on how viable the Hillbilly is against Survivors. If you suddenly gave Ghostface unlimited insta-kill projectiles, the Clown doesn't become better or worse against those Survivors. If the second lowest tier Killer still does well enough against Survivors while the lowest tier Killer is wholly unviable, then buffing the lowest tier Killer to be one of the best Killers in the game doesn't make the second lowest Killer suddenly bad and unviable.
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@_AdamFrancis_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2939573#Comment_2939573
Gen Rushing is not a thing. It will only happen if you camp, otherwise you could pressure gens and get survivors off of them. Maybe you are just not as good as you 🤔
That's like saying that tunneling isn't a thing because Survivors can hammer out gens to get Killers to stop harrassing the same one Survivor.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2939044#Comment_2939044
1: they consulted with gaymerx sure who knows how that actually went.
2: they went through there survivors to see who they wanted to make gay.
3: they made lore to explain why he's gay.
But IM asking what YOU think about the cosmetic.
I have no opinion of the cosmetic.
You neglected to answer my question about what was missing that would constitute effort. You basically just regurgitated what I wrote.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2939039#Comment_2939039
Possibly. That is something which different people can well see differently.
But also, the cosmetic. I've yet seen any real mention of it besides once.
I'm not talking about the cosmetic. I'm talking about the decision to make the character in question gay. With regards to David, they:
1) Consulted an external party that is more well-versed in the subject than they to ensure the subject was being treated properly throughout the whole process
2) Went through their catalogue of existing characters and compared them to the goals they were trying to meet to see which would be best suited
3) Worked in lore that developed the character in a way that was still consistent with what was previously established of the character and grew them in new directions
What exactly is missing from here that would constitute effort?
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2939036#Comment_2939036
So far what we've seen them do is make a character gay and make lore to explain how. That is not specifically high effort.
Also...what's the thoughts on the cosmetic?
That is roughly the standard amount of effort that would be taken when compared to making a new character.
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Yes, and the situation regarding David does not constitute tokenism because a fair bit more than the minimum effort was put into developing diversity, and if BHVR is being sincere with their goals (which, to be fair, remains to be seen), it's not the last of this push.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2939015#Comment_2939015
I was just going on another quota than continuing with it since dude wasn't going to answer
Tokenism is the act of making a minimum, generally obligatory effort of inclusion purely for the sake of fulfilling a perceived quota of diversity with no real intent of going beyond that minimum amount of effort to promote diversity.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2939008#Comment_2939008
Its clear from even the Peanits response, they looked at every character. David was not always indeed to be gay. Just not much else to say
That's not what tokenism is.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2938992#Comment_2938992
They weren't going to just say he's gay and move on. That would definitely case more issues.
That means it's not just labeling him gay. It's exploring the character's sexuality.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2938987#Comment_2938987
You can in fact make a character gay and then also make lore for that character to say how they are gay.
I didn't dispute that. What I disputed was the notion that they simply labeled him gay and that was it. They went beyond that by exploring David's character using new information that was not previously known to us.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2938972#Comment_2938972
With David they've essentially just labelled Him as gay for representation.
No, they didn't. They made an entire story out of it.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2938968#Comment_2938968
The new character is a more sincere approach
What makes it more sincere?
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2938961#Comment_2938961
As I've just said. One was always meant to be gay and represent, the other was only made gay for representation.
How does that make it not meaningful? I could just as easily say "one was made gay for representation" while "the other was only made to be gay for representation." What makes one more valid than the other?
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2938955#Comment_2938955
Using a pre existing David. In this case he just wasn't already gay and the devs just decided "let's make him gay just to add representation and tweet about so everyone knows he's gay even before the lore officially released".
That's it's. It may not go that deep and doesn't feel really meaningful just to make someone gay rather than someone who is gay being added in.
What makes it not feel meaningful if the two scenarios ("make a new character" vs. "use a pre-existing character) end up being roughly equal in content?
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2938943#Comment_2938943
Sure, intentions can change, but that doesn't mean the change at the cost of said intention is always good.
What would make it bad in this case?
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2938937#Comment_2938937
Simply the fact one wasn't originally intended for it while the other was.
How? Intentions are allowed to change, are they not?
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2938930#Comment_2938930
That can be debatable, so can't say too much on that...but ehh maybe
One is a matter of "How do we develop a character that tastefully tackles the issue?"
The other is a matter of "How do we tastefully tackle the issue through an already established character?"
Assuming it actually is done tastefully in both cases, what shows a lack of effort in one but not the other?
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2938759#Comment_2938759
Shows effort. I do think the intention of something shows how serious it can be.
In the battle, I just think the new character would be superior in most cases and reasoning.
Effort can be done to roughly equal amounts in both cases, can they not?
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2938722#Comment_2938722
Of course hypothetically speaking it would be possible. It'd be meaningfully different because we'd know 100% it was intended to be that way and not something they only decide after the fact. The fact being "we want to add in a LGBT character into the game."
Is that really a meaningful difference, provided that the quality of the added lore is roughly the same in both cases? If the goal is the same, the reasoning behind it is the same, and the end product is the same, how does the difference in execution matter?
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2938548#Comment_2938548
Make a new and unique character with their own personality and style. Something that feels more genuine and intentional from the start.
Here's a question: Hypothetically, is it possible to create a new character in this regard that follows the same beats as David? Hard, gruff no-nonsense brawler dude who is actually in the closet? If so, how is that meaningfully different from taking an established hard, gruff no-nonsense brawler dude and establishing that they're actually in the closet? If not, why not?
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@TheArbiter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2938086#Comment_2938086
IMO trapper should be the only left to keep the default chase music. He is the original killer and deserves the original music. I think everyone having unique and different chase music would be best.
I'd be fine with that. OG Killer gets the OG music.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2938193#Comment_2938193
It is not, but you dont need 3 or even 4 Slowdown-Perks. Especially not on the strongest Killers.
IMO, playing that many Slowdown-Perks makes the game really easy as Killer.
Hey, if you wanna win at all costs, you try to win at all costs.
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Everyone remembers the painting from the Street Fighter movie of M. Bison looking like Napoleon. No one remembers the painting of M. Bison in the style of John Wayne Gacy's self-portrait of Pogo the Clown.
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Play as normal.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
Oh goody. Now to speculate wildy over what the six means.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/1BPHHC24JNDP/image.png
Looks like one of the Entity's legs to me. Leg? Claw? Who knows. The thing that stabs you when you die on hook.
Tentacle. It's Squidward.
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Killers
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2932965#Comment_2932965
Why can't things like this just happen without all the official statements and confirmations and stuff? That doesn't look like normalizing to me. I've always felt its best to leave things like this up to the individual because in the end people are going to get pissed either way when something is made canon in a fictional story that people feel different about.
Because many, many video games already do not leave it up to the individual and have no problem confirming orientation, either intentionally or otherwise. To say that it shouldn't be the case in video games is like saying that it shouldn't be the case in any other form of storytelling or worldbuilding either.
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@Sludge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2932367#Comment_2932367
It doesn't matter why, at no point was I playing a victim or looking for sympathy. I just stated what I did, which was change my main.
Why did you change your main?
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@Sludge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2932357#Comment_2932357
What victim complex is that?
Because I changed my main?
Depends on why you changed your main.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2932264#Comment_2932264
How do you know what I chose to be attracted to? How do you even know I'm attracted to the person? I could be a very shallow and vain personality that married someone unattractive to keep me in a power position in the relationship or I could have married for money. I'm playing devil's advocate here but the point remains your blanket statement is not fact. People can see two beautiful potential mates and choose one over the other for any number of reasons all of which are choices and not some genetic programming.
I'm saying that you don't choose to be attracted to people. You either are attracted or you are not.
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@Pukenplag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2932120#Comment_2932120
Read the replies to my question above to see his explaination.
Nah, they kinda just skirted around the question and let you fill in the blanks for them so they wouldn't have to answer it for themself. I'd like to hear it from them.
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@Sludge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2931396#Comment_2931396
I switched to Jeff
It's a waste of years of grinding but whatever
I'd like to know why.
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@Lochnload_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2929051#Comment_2929051
They did but they also never actually confirmed any heterosexual characters. Which characters are you thinking of that had big announcements saying they are straight? None from what I remember. In fact, even though Felix was stated to have a wife and kids, that did not stop a single person from still assuming he could still be far from straight. It wasn't confirmed anywhere. Hell, even David had an ex-girlfriend in his lore and he is now the first confirmed homosexual character.
The fact of the matter is now, the way DBD went along with their reveal, it is setting them in a bad position where they really need to start actually fleshing out their stories and characters. Which really sucks, because DBD doesn't have a good track record of doing anything not half-assed. Mikaela had a forced characterization, and I fear more come NOW with attached half-assed representations.
It isn't hard to just write a good character, but seeing as BHVR needed to collab?? just to write a gay character after 6 years, it isn't looking that way lol. Felix had a wife and kids in his lore, how hard was it to at some point just say "Dwight hung out with his boyfriend between work"?
BHVR was clearly not interested in mentioning David's homosexuality as a token gesture as many other pieces of media are known to do. They actively wanted to make it a focus, which is something that does require a certain amount of care if you're not as well-versed in the subject. That can very much result in wanting to look toward outside assistance if you don't want risk doing a really bad job representing the subject matter. It's strange to me that actively seeking help over a sensitive subject matter is seen as "half-assing it" when the alternative you are seeing seems to be to just casually tossing in a reference in passing and then calling it a day.
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@Valik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2929732#Comment_2929732
I'm not speaking generally - I'm speaking of the context of the conversation we were having.
I don't remember talking about people having a problem with his homosexuality, so you bringing it up caught me off guard because it seemed both slightly accusatory and completely beside the point.
Well, I'm speaking generally, so we're kinda just not on the same page, then.
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@Laeyon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2930035#Comment_2930035
Because other lores dont get posted either, so why post a lore of a surv thats gay? Whats so special about being gay?
Sure they do. You'll see BHVR post links to new chapter lore and also quiz people on lore on Twitter, for example.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DeadByBHVR/status/1463175579390427142 -
Why do you care about lore announcements that's posted on social media? You've already signaled that you don't follow the lore.
