Prestige Perk Changes Are Awful Compared To Perk Tier Removal
Someone check my math cuz I am dumb. Using killers as an example.
Prestige System
It takes 1.6 mil BP to hit level 50.
4.8 mil to hit prestige 3 to unlock char specific perks across all chars.
4.8 mil * 27 killers = 129.6 million BP to unlock JUST THE KILLER SPECIFIC PERKS across all KILLER chars.
Perk Tier Removal
1.6 mil BP to hit level 50.
Level 50 = 60 perks unlocked (1-40 is 1 perk per level, 40-50 is 2 perks per level)
~50k BP per level 50 web if you focus on perks and completing the tree ASAP.
There are 91 killer perks.
31/2 = 15.5 BWs needed to finish all perks, (NOT JUST KILLER SPECIFIC PERKS BUT GENERAL PERKS TOO)
15.5 * 50k = 775k BP.
1.6 mil + 775k = 2.35 mil BP per killer.
2.35 mil * 27 = 63.5 million BP to UNLOCK ALL KILLER PERKS ACROSS ALL KILLER CHARS.
THIS DOESN'T EVEN INCLUDE THE FACT THAT EVERY KILLER STARTS OFF WITH THEIR 3 PERKS UNLOCKED. ITS ACTUALLY AROUND 60 MILLION BP TO UNLOCK ALL PERKS.
PERK GRIND SCALING
BUT THE GRIND IS EXPONENTIAL YOU SAY!!
BUT ITS NOT I SAY!!!
This is an exponential function. x^n.
This is an linear function. x*n
SO EVERYTIME A NEW KILLER IS ADDED THE COST TO GET ALL THE PERKS INCREASES FOLLOWING THIS FORMULA.
x = number of killers
n = cost of perks
(x-1) * 75000
x-1 is because you start with the killers specific perks unlocked.
Regarding removing perk tiers:
It's 27*3*75000 (i.e. 1.5 blood webs). Total cost is 6 mill.
The prestige system makes the grind have a large upfront cost, much larger than removing perk tiers, but caps the required BP per new character at 4.8 mil.
Removing perk tiers causes the BP cost per character to grow linearly.
I.E. 4.8mil vs 75000 * x where x is the number of characters.
This means that at 64 characters, the cost to unlock the new perks for old in the tierless system would be equivalent to the prestige system.
If you factor in the cost to unlock all perks on the new character it would be around 2 new characters before the prestige system costs less for new characters.
FORMULA: (27+x)*75000+50000*(31+3x)/2 + 1800000
What I think this means is that unlocking all perks will be easier if you've already done the grind, but if you just want to focus on a few specific killers you'll have to pay the price and grind everyone else up instead of focusing on a specific killer.
SOLUTION:
KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID
JUST REMOVE UNLOCKING PERKS FROM THE STUPID BLOOD WEB ALL TOGETHER.
YOU BOUGHT THE CHARACTER YOU GET THE PERKS.
NO MORE STUPID PERK TIERS. PERKS ARE AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE GAME.
There I fixed the problem.
Comments
I did some calculations awhile back and reducing the perk tiers to 1 would buy you nearly 2 years (7 chapters) before getting back to the levels of grind we have today.
You need to look at the bigger picture and not just for one character. If you P3 a character, that character's three perks are now on all other characters. That means you don't have to spend bp directly on other characters when a new chapter comes out, just the new character.
For example, the next chapter alone will cost me 7 million BP just to get the three teachable perks on my other killers. That's not including getting all perks on the new killer. To P3 a character it takes 4.5 million to reach P3-1 and 6 million to reach P3-50. But with the new system, you would have every tier 3 perk before reaching P0-20 if all other characters are P3. That's where the grind reduction comes in.
With the new system every chapter will have the same level of grind as the previous. Yes the amount will increase from the perspective of a new player but that is true for the current system and tier 1 only system.
Removing tiers will not fix anything. New chapters will make grind problem again. But new prestige system is solving all grind issues. Now all you have to do p3 new characters. Their perks will open on all everyone.
P3 Level 15 all characters and your all characters will have all perks.
I don't understand.
For killers the next chapter will include three new perks. Assuming perk tiers are reduced to 1, that's 27*3*5000 (using 5k as the cost of the perks) that's only 405,000 BP to acquire the new three perks across all characters.
To unlock all the perks on the new character is around 2 million (they start with their perks).
If you need to hit P3 thats 4.8 million to unlock the perks across all characters. In this case you need to unlock 282 perks (all perks and all tiers) on the new character.
At P3 you've unlocked 180 perks. That means theres 102 perks left. At 50k BP per level 50 web with 2 perks per web thats 50k * 102/2 = 2.55 million to unlock all the rest of the perks.
So now with the prestige system you need 4.8 mil + 2.55 mil = 7.33 mil.
How did you get 7 million w/o perk tiers?
EDIT: I AM WRONG!!!
Regarding removing perk tiers:
It's 27*3*75000 (i.e. 1.5 blood webs). Total cost is 6 mill.
The prestige system makes the grind have a large upfront cost, much larger than removing perk tiers, but caps the required BP per new character at 4.8 mil.
Removing perk tiers causes the BP cost per character to grow linearly.
I.E. 4.8mil vs 75000 * x where x is the number of characters.
This means that at 64 characters, the cost to unlock the new perks in the tierless system would be equivalent to the prestige system.
If you factor in the cost to unlock all perks on the new character it would be around 2 new characters before the prestige system costs less for new characters.
FORMULA: (27+x)*75000+50000*(31+3x)/2 + 1800000
What I think this means is that unlocking all perks will be easier if you've already done the grind, but if you just want to focus on a few specific killers you'll have to pay the price and grind everyone else up instead of focusing on a specific killer.
SOLUTION:
KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID
JUST REMOVE UNLOCKING PERKS FROM THE STUPID BLOOD WEB ALL TOGETHER.
YOU BOUGHT THE CHARACTER YOU GET THE PERKS.
NO MORE STUPID PERK TIERS. PERKS ARE AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE GAME.
There I fixed the problem.
Okay but you need 4.8 mil for P3, just to unlock character specific perks.
If perk tiers are removed you can unlock ALL PERKS for TWO killers.
It does nothing to help the grind for those that need it the most: new players. And for that they should be ashamed.
All it does is lower the grind time and cost for someone already committed to grinding just because anyway.
1 mil BP cap btw.
It is probably going to be worse given they are, for whatever reason, going to nerf Barbecue. New players are going to have quite the grind ahead of them for Wesker.
Thanks for your comment. I fixed some of my math.
It seems that this change reduces the growth of the grind per new killer but forces players to grind all killers instead of just killers they want to play. I.E. if I only play Bubba with the tierless system I would have to grind SIGNIFICANTLY LESS than the prestige system, but if I play ALL killers equally then the grind is significantly higher.
Would you agree?
It kind of depends on your intent. For me, I am going to p1 everyone once the update drops and my grind will literally be finished, more or less. I am ready for the update now. I can just use whatever I earn to pour into new killers to unlock every tier 3 perk the old fashioned way, but there is no rush as I will already have access to the perks that made me want to invest in the killer to begin with.
I have 22 survivors at at least prestige 1. I have nea at level 1. If the update were to happen now she would have already 69 perks.
So why dont they just do both and be done with it?
EDIT: Also, with the tierless system you could have all perks on Nea and be done with the grind.
Noobs complain about the aura reading on bbq, even though there are 4 ways to counter it. You can bet they will remove that, even though it gets the killer away from the hook.
Or they remove the bonus BP for it, since you won't need so many BP anymore when the prestige reworks hits live, and you also can get bonus BP for playing a certain role. Removing the BP bonus would really drop the usage of BBQ, I guess.
Currently I play all my killers with BBQ just bc of the BP. If that were gone, it would give me more build options. Sure I could replace BBQ right now, but it always feels like a gianb BP waste for me :-/.
I disagree. Also, it takes about 1.45-1.5m to reach level 50 from level 1. If you skip perks in favor of always going for the absolute cheapest bloodwebs, it's a little under 1.4m.
I personally love the change, because it makes complete sense. You "complete" a character, get all their perks on everyone. This is also much better than perk tiers because you can prestige characters who have perks you like using. All for it. I just hope there are cakes this anniversary so I can grind some P3s. If there are no cakes because of "Blood Rushes" or some other BP events I'll be very frustrated.
It does because after the update hits prestiging wont delete your perks, items or addons, there will be no reason not to prestige and once you start to have characters at P3 you will shave 9 Bloodwebs per P3 character, there is a point where you will P3 everyone just by virtue of dumping BPs.
Right now there are 107 Survivor perks (318 ranks) and 97 Killer perks (288 ranks), you unlock 1 perk from lvl 1 to lvl 40 and 2 perks from 40 onwards, that means you need minimum 179 and 164 bloodwebs on each Survivor and Killer to get all perks without prestiging, with the change it goes to 150 per Survivor and Killer while prestiging without losing your stuff and you will have at lvl 1 wathever you unlock on the others eliminating RNG, you want DH or BBQ? get David/Leatherface to P3 and you will have it unlocked forever on everyone no need to clear bloodweb after bloodweb.
P.D. Right now every new character introduces 9 extra perk unlocks on everyone (5 Bloodwebs per character).
You have good point here. But again, removing perk tiers will not fix real problem. Grind will be issue with new chapters.
Now all you need to level characters. If you p3 Trapper, you will never need level him again. His perks will open on everyone. I think they found good solution for reduce grind.
If they add BBQ and WGLF stacks to basekits, grind will be history for new players too. And plus there is still BP offerings, tome challanges, grade rewards etc.
Maybe I misunderstood what the change will be, but from what I understood p3ing a killer/survivor will automatically unlock his tier 3 perk on everyone else right?
So assuming I have Dwight at P3, once a new chapter is released, the new survivor will automatically have Bond, Prove Thyself and Leader available and already unlocked?
If that's the case, the only perks to unlock will always be the general perks, turning the grind into a constant value (always the same amount of bloodpoints on each chapter release), against the linear growth of just removing perk tiers, which is the best we could possibly imagine to get imho
If you want to only play a select few killers then the grind would be the same as it is today. Any new killer would need to be leveled to P0-40 for their teachables or unlocked them in the shrine. As for players that want to level every killer then the grind is reduced. The option to P1 a killer is being removed, you are forced to P1 once you reached level 50. Same for P2, P3, Px. This will naturally unlock perks on the other killers as you level them.
As for this line:
For killers the next chapter will include three new perks. Assuming perk tiers are reduced to 1, that's 27*3*5000 (using 5k as the cost of the perks) that's only 405,000 BP to acquire the new three perks across all characters.
You are removing the total cost of the bloodweb. It would be nice to select three perks in one go but the entity will eat up the third. Then you have to finish off the second web to make way for next chapter killer. That's why it take 7 million in my calculation.
The one major benefit with the new system, at least in my situation, I don't have to grind all perks on survivors. All my survivors are P3-50 and once the update hits that saves me 191,048,000 bp right off the bat. All those tome challenges using x survivor will now be tolerable.
No, you might as well stick to the existing option of getting the teachable version of the perks you want unlocked rather than prestiging. New players still have to put in hundreds of hours to get working builds (especially as killer), all while starting with level I perk tiers options. This does nothing to encourage new players to try out and continue playing the game.
The existing option of unlocking teachables makes each teachable you unlock dilute the bloodweb further and further, making each Killer you decide to level up have a smaller and smaller chance of getting the specific perks you want. This system lets you ELIMINATE perks from the bloodweb by automaticallly unlocking them for all Killers.
This also does nothing for many players that have been here a while too. I've played this game for a while, and I only have 2 prestige characters. I have many characters between level 30-40, because I only leveled them for their teachable perks. Am I supposed to grind an over 60 million extra bloodpoints, so I can enjoy this new system? How does this help, for killers like Myers, where I only want one perk unlocked? If I bring him up to prestige 1, it actually makes my grind WORSE, because that would add 6 perk tiers into my bloodwebs instead of 3 perk tiers. The only way I could benefit from Myers is if I brought him up to prestige 3, just so the one perk I want can be at level 3 for everyone.
I think im fine with the new grind system. New players might even consider only prestiging important characters once and then leveling up the character they want to play and get tier 2-3s of those perks while leveling. And then continue prestiging other less important characters while playing their favored character. Prestiging twice also seems almost as good as prestiging thrice as well at the start since the perk pool isnt absolutely bloated.
Honestly im absolutely fine with this as is atm. Though if they nerf the ######### out of BBQ because of this i will be really sad.
It does fine for new players. It's the difference between getting a character to 40 and then moving on, vs getting them to 50 and now having all their perks permanently going forward.
Not really.
If you are new player and check guides, you will level those characters for first:
Survivors: Bill, Meg, Laurie, Jake and David.
Killers: Plague, Clown, Bubba and Hag.
Those characters will give you good perks, so this mean you can play any killer with tthose perks while you are levelling other characters.
And plus you are no longer losing items, perks, add-ons, offerings etc for prestige. This is no longer lose / lose decision.
4,8m is what you need to p3 - level 50 one character. 43200000 BP you need total bp for p3 - 50 those all characters and their perks on others (tier 3). This is not hard goal to complete. Because BP offerings, WGLF & BBQ stacks, tome challanges, daily missions, grade rewards etc.
I can collect 1,5 - 2m daily if i play good enough. This is really not hard mission to complete.
And whenever you did this, you will have good perks on your killers and survivors for start. And you will never need to level those characters again. And you will never need to search their perks on other's bloodwebs. This is good progress for new players.
Ok, I honestly had to go back and re-read how it works. What it basically encourages is P3ing one character at a time before moving on to anyone else. Otherwise, you’re only diluting future character blood webs and their grind further than necessary (even if it’s better than what we have now). So these poor new players are advised to stick with a character with only their teachables and general perks all the way to P3 - then do the same with every entire character on the roster, with the slow addition of the teachable perks getting added to your tool belt as you grind.
So they’re essentially disincentivizing character diversity worse than the current system - particularly for killer.
I am sure they will give way/chance to people like you. Because everyone did not prestige, new system will kinda hurt them for no reason.
But even they won't do this, you can still prestige your characters without losing perks/addons/offerings etc. This should not be big deal. You will just get add-ons, items etc while levelling them to p3
Dont forget that you can unlook perks for all chars in the bloodweb at will, if i got that right, so you might have to figure in shards as well.
My big gripe with making this prestige-based is that there was never an incentive to prestige before, so a lot of players didn't do it. It was actually detrimental to prestige before unless you just wanted the cosmetics. I have so many characters not prestiged but maxed out. So I'm basically penalized for not wanting to penalize myself. Now I have to grind even more because I didn't want to do what was previously an unnecessary grind.
Point number 2: the grind is STILL RIDICULOUS even if you're just basing it on prestige. It's still too much. People are applauding this as if reduced a 4k hr grind to a 2k hr grind is remotely reasonable. 2k hrs of grinding is still completely asinine in the year 2022. It only looks better because the current grind is absurd even by old school MMO standards.
It's a step in the right direction, but they've completely missed the point. You can't expect new players to put in thousands of hours worth of time to unlock all that a game has to offer. There's no reason to lock players out of perks. Players don't stop playing a PVP game when they have perks. They use them in trials.
Are you talking about getting the character to level 50 and then stopping? Or are you talking about going past level 50 and unlocking perks but without prestiging? Because if it's the latter, it doesn't sound like the system will punish it.:
It’s not entirely uncommon for a player to have withheld from engaging with the prestige system altogether. Some may have already collected every tier of every perk for every character without ever having levelled their prestige. Rest assured that this new progression system will ensure that these players are compensated for their time investments.
“When we roll this out, we’re planning on doing a prestige catch-up mechanic that will look at the perk tier you have on your characters,” explains Matt. “If you’ve been collecting perks on your character and levelling them up, you’ll gain a number of prestige levels based on how many perks and perk tiers you've acquired.”
https://news.deadbydaylight.com/en/news/Prestige_Progression
I still hate perk tiers, and the 1 million BP cap remains way too strict given this game's grind.
You forget to consider we no longer lose items and perks for prestiging, so rather than losing millions we still keep what we buy
Sure new players will have to put some hours into getting perks but new players usually dont have a clue of what they are doing and dont even understand what the perks really do so its not a concern, when I started I used Deja Vu for a month thinking it was probably the BEST perk in the game, having newcomers try perks by themselves instead of jumping into "Streamer™ said this is the build to so Ill use it even if I dont understand a single thing about this game" is better for them, it helps them learn and develop different builds.
Also, you dont need to P3 to get a character teachables, only if you want them at rank3 unlocked by default, you only need to P1 to get rank1 perks into everyones else by default, if you get to P3 you get rank3. Obviusly for veterans is much better to P3 because it saves a lot of time, newcomers can still P1 Meg, move unto Claudette and she will have her perks and Meg rank1 perks, get her to 50, Dwight now has his teachables and Claudette and Meg rank1 teachables, then Jake etc.
P.D. To everyone saying "now people will have to get this Killer/Survivor at 50 then this other one then etc", base game comes with 7 Survivors and 5 Killers and not everyone is going to buy the game and around 150€ worth of DLCs just because some guide told them some perk is mandatory, did you actually buy that much DLC for a game you werent sure you even liked?, most newcomers will try the game, pick the character they think looks cool and try it, then decide if they stick around or not, if they stick around theyll start putting BPs into characters and unlocking stuff with shards, nobody will be faced with 40 Survivors and 25 Killers at rank1 when they buy the game, the grinding comes gradually and when you have no clue it doesnt seem that mandatory.
BHVR gives me a reason for my characters P3.
And it allows not to make fun of big players who already full of P3.
If BHVR had decided that it was enough to mount a 40 character once to unlock these skills to everyone, we would have all already many personal maxes few weeks but good.
It's better than nothing.