SunaIIanu
SunaIIanu
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@Terion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3271118#Comment_3271118
i tunnel when it makes sense to do, when it gives me an advantage. You can tunnel someone and absolutly give survivors free time, which is the wrong way to tunnel.
if you found the weak link of the team however? i dont see any reason why to not tunnel if they go down. But still i got flamed often enough for it, all though it is not personal, its just me taking advantage. Like survivors should take advantage of mistakes the killer makes. Thats just... playing the game.
so yeah, feeling entitled to an explanation why someone just plays the game strategicly, is toxic. The killer doesnt have to have a morality compass you know?
I'm pretty sure that this discussion is pointless, but anyway:
Where did I say that the Killer needs to follow the survivors morality compass? That they are only allowed to tunnel for the "right" reasons?
Yes, there are people who tunnel strategically like you, but there are also people who tunnel for personal reasons (like the Killer I mentioned but also when I play Killer and tunnel it's usually because that survivor pissed me off), so why is it wrong to ask?
Especially in situations when the killer tunnels one surv but not the others, sure, your szenario could be a possible reason, but it's also possible that the surv did something to piss the Killer off and did not realize it, so why not ask to know what to avoid in the future?
And even in your szenario, if a survivor is constantly tunneled because they are the weak link, telling them so might make them realize that they need to change their playstyle. Not that you as a Killer are bound the help the survivors, but if they are just asking without any insults I really don't see the problem. And as long as they are not harassing you when you don't answer them (which is obviously your right) I really don't think that they are acting entitled for an explanation if they ask one time and that's it.
Maybe you mean that that question "What did I do to make you tunnel me? " has the subtext "You are only allowed to tunnel me if I did something to you" and therefore you think it is entitled and pushing the survivors morality views on the Killer, but that is just an Interpretation. I can assure you that atleast in my case that is not my intention, of course I don't know OP's intention but considering that they apparently did not say more than the question (no insults or anything) I think that they atleast deserve the benefit of the doubt.
Different topic: If you have that much of a problem with questions, what is your opinion on the Killer asking the survs if they are swf? I mean, playing swf is allowed so technically it's not the Killers business if the survs play swf or not. Also that question can be read with a subtext like "You only won because you played swf", "you shouldn't play swf it gives you an unfair advantage" etc. Also, most people would say that playing in an swf makes you more likely to win, so wouldn't it be the strategic thing to play swf all the time when you want to win? So if Killers ask that question, are they toxic by your definition?
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@Terion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270997#Comment_3270997
it kinda is though. Shows they took it personal
Taking something personal is toxic?
Also, people do tunnel for personal reasons, for example one Killer told me they tunneled me because I camped them in a different game (pretty sure they confused me, but that is besides the point). So I don't see a problem with asking and would never interpret that question as toxic when playing Killer myself and judging from the screenshots neither did the nurse so I really don't see the point.
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@Murgleïs said:
Another nurse hate thread :
- blaming someone for playing the character they like in a video game
- blaming for using addons
- blaming for trying to win
- toxic in chat and has to bring toxicity on the forums
Calling the question "What did I do to you?" toxic is quite an overstatement.
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@SpaghettiVase said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203206#Comment_3203206
i didn’t know that it was a common myth i just knew old mettle of man was a game ruining perk that was warned by players shouldnt come to live. I assumed it was a ptb but ive not been around that long.
"Common" might be an overstatement but I've seen people using it as an example for a bad ptb decision before.
If I remember correctly, the leaks made Ash's perks available in kyf on one of the consoles (or maybe all, not sure anymore, it was definitely not available on PC), so people could try it and of course from the description alone many people had doubts about it, so you are a certainly right about that.
I've heard the theory before that BHVR kept powerful survivor perks on purpose to increase sales on survivor only chapters, I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist, but I wouldn't be surpised, so I think that is an extra dimension to keep in mind when looking at bhvr's decisions about MoM or the boons.
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@SpaghettiVase said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202984#Comment_3202984
I imagine veteran players are having boon ptb flashbacks and the real old players are having mettle ptb flashbacks. Bhvrs track record of introducing then reacting later really doesn’t instill any confidence
I don't know why that is such a common myth, but there was no mettle of men ptb, the Devs leaked the perks with a console update accidently and added the Chapter soon after.
As for examples that never made it to live: Legion changes (downing an injured surv in 3 instead of 4 of I remembere correctly) and Selfcare changes (you heal yourself faster, but at the cost of a very reduced healing speed when you heal others.)
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@6yXJI0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200151#Comment_3200151
Nope! It doesn't have collision until its spawned.
Maybe they fixed it by now, but there wa a time when you good find the hatch before it officially spawned because of the collision.
Either way, if the hatch spawns at the beginning of the match, it is just a coincidence when it opens near the last surv.
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Doesn't the hatch technically spawn right at the start of the Match, but is just invisible?
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3183008#Comment_3183008
I mean, I am the first one who would abolish bodyblocking as I hate the concept, but you can't have the cake and eat it. *shrugs*
Body blocking between killer and survivor and body blocking between survivor and survivor are two different things though. Sure, body blocking can be annoying as killer but you can also use it to your advantage if you can block someone in a corner, for example with Billy or Bubba.
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@Chaos999 said:
There was this one time when I killed 2 survivors at 4 gens, and then proceeded to... Not kill other 2. We goofed around, broke some pallets (on my head) let them do flashy saves and fix all the gens... Then as they wandered around with me readying to leave, looking at me with trusting eyes I.... Knocked one down and hooked him, killing him on the spot. The girl... She tried to run, but there were no pallets left of course. So I chased her and quickly downed her with NOED. Then hooked and killed her as well.
From their perspective I was a terrible person, a monstrous, cruel abomination, devoid of human feelings. In true, I had a challenge that asked me to do this. Behavior made me do it.
But in truth, behind the monitor, I did chuckled a bit, mildly enjoying the bad wolf role playing. Am I a deranged, sociopathic detritus of human waste,so devoid of satisfaction in my life that all I have left is to torture digital people on the internet?
I'm sure they thought so. But I don't think I am. I'm still the same dude who let's 2 people go in about 80% of my matches and tries to help obvious newbs to learn how to loop a little better.
Tldr: you really can't very easily judge a person just by how he is in a video game where he plays the villain.
They would have died anyway if you killed two teammates at 4 gens. Sure, you betrayed their trust, but surely they earned more bloodpoints that way and did not lie on the ground for 4 minutes unable to do anything, so I don't think your situation is comparable.
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@Bartlaus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3179543#Comment_3179543
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/311063/crop-top-for-feng-min-when
And you really think I didn't know that?
I didn't see your original post, just remembered the bug with the top.
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@Bartlaus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3178859#Comment_3178859
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3178860#Comment_3178860
First of all, the title was "Free the Belly Button". Second, I got the attention I wanted and my petition was successful. You know what? We already have TWO crop tops for Feng Min, so what? To all the Feng haters out there:
I just want to say that technically you could see her belly button before they added crop tops:
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@Gylfie said:
As sad as it is to see an underused perk nerfed, I'm actually with BHVR on this one. The first time I used this perk and I noticed that my mine had failed but that I was able to immediately place a new one, I was like what? That can't be right?
It's like missing your flashbang save and immediately receiving a new one to try again.
Edit: and now it's consistent with Dragon's Grip, which also goes on its huge cooldown even if it didn't hit anyone.
But the long cooldown makes Dragons Grip pretty #########. Why not buff ######### perks instead of making decent ones worse?
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Wild theory: OP means "wall" instead of "wand" and is talking about the bug when you could walk through the wall on one of the autohaven maps.
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@Carth said:
Stakeout is horribly bugged and I can't fathom why it hasn't been fixed yet. For those of you wondering how it is, it apparently gives the bonus 1% to greats on ALL greats regardless of if you used a token to proc it or not. 45 second gens are a result of this bug. It basically doubles the effect of hyperfocus even if you have zero tokens.
@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3150456#Comment_3150456
Is BHVR aware? If not, worth a bug report post.
I'm 99% sure that I saw a Dev comment where they said that they are aware of the bug but want to keep it for the moment.
But I can't find the comment anymore, I think it was in the 6.2.0 PTB Feedback.
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I'd love to practice but it's not that easy.
If you want to practice certain skills effectively you need to find atleast one other person to play kyf with, so that is not a great option.
Sure, there is the bot match in the tutorial, but that is only one Killer in one map, you can't bring items and the bot is really bad. (Same problem if you want to practice a certain killer.)
It annoys me so much that after 6 years we still don't have custom bot matches. (I know that they said that they want to implement them this year, we'll see how it works out.)
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@StarMoral said:
I mean you can when you load up into the lobby
No, that is your own ping.
It was the killers ping before they added dedicated servers.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3101552#Comment_3101552
You know, if you lose simply because of bad team or hook suicide, it's well expected and not a problem.
Look at the context instead of only seeing numbers.
As I said, balance is not my point.
It doesn't matter if I lose the game because of teammates doing dumb #########, it is still frustrating for me, maybe even more than other reasons.
Btw, looking at context not just numbers is exactly what I meant with my last paragraph.
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@MyDearFrodo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3101438#Comment_3101438
A goal of roughly 50% across all matches and all killers does not equal 7 matches of one person in one afternoon... Think about that for a second.
Well obviously.
I just meant that I would have not percieved the outcome of this afternoon of matches as satisfactory, because overall the survs lost a lot (I don't know how often drsoontm died or if they even care about team outcome or only about their own success, so "lost" is also subjective in this context).
I guess I could have worded that better, english is not my first language though, so sometimes I struggle with my wording, especially when I just want to write something quickly.
Btw, about the perception of balance, there was a time when all the killrates were higher than 50% (with only nurse being an exception) and there were still many killers that complained because of that discrepancy between what the statistics say and what the player experience feels like.
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Not sure if I calculated it correctly, but if I did, the killrate over those 7 matches is about 71%, that does not sound that great considering that the Devs are aiming for a 50% killrate.
Edit: I'm not saying that your experience proves that the game is unbalanced, I just meant that for me personally it would not feel satisfactory and I would not be motivated to play if only half of my matches are good.
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@Redv said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3092894#Comment_3092894
wait, there's an official discord??
Atleast half-official. I think it was founded by community members, than the Devs run it and now the community runs it again, but I think the dbd mods are still somewhat active there.
https://mobile.twitter.com/deadbybhvr/status/1096480183413075969 -
You could try to find new people to play with over the official discord or the forums.
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@StickyB said:
I've always been under the impression that a dead survivor, regardless of method, is a kill for the killer. But everyday I meet more and more survivors who will hide to die to endgame collapse or crawl to a corner where a teammate died so you can't reach a hook to then be bled out, and then proceed to claim that the killer didn't get their 4k or in some cases, that they won.
What's everyone opinions on this? Is it just salty survivors grasping at straws or do you genuinely not consider a kill a kill unless you're hooked.
In theory I would agree that a kill is a kill, method doesn't matter, but a bleed out gives you less points than hooks, doesn't give you a point for the devout category and as far as I know does not count for challenges either (I wonder how MMR ranks a bleed out).
So I would say it is a kill, but not a sacrifice so depending on what you want to achieve as killer a bleed out can have negative consequences.
I'm pretty sure that a kill through endgame collapse does count though, so I would differentiate between the two.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090542#Comment_3090542
~50 ping is not that high, there's was no reason for me too not be able to leave my spawn for a few seconds, or get an entire hit denied
Everyone keeps commenting about Survivors also being affected by rubber-banding, and that sucks.
No one likes getting rubber-banded, but this post is based on my experience, and I haven't experienced any rubber-banding as Survivor, and I have been playing Survivors more than Killer just because of the rubber-banding
Reading is not that hard people
As far as I know white means that you are between 100 and 150 ms, red means you are over 150 ms. (Edit: Wiki says white means more than 150ms, red more than 300ms, so that is probably right.)
Well I never experienced rubberbanding and I know that it affects both sides, so I'm suprised that someone as active in the forums as you missed it.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090437#Comment_3090437
Clearly just ping issues, and not the servers being garbage
In the last Clip you had the high ping symbol, so I would assume that this situation was indeed due to bad ping, however the Symbol was not present in the other two clips.
Btw, you can see survivor experiencing rubberbanding in Zubat's videos for example, if you have trouble believing it.
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@Lio456 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3075034#Comment_3075034
My bad, I added it to the top thread. but here it is also :
Thanks.
They are a bit early for winter skins, but I guess it takes sometime to create them ingame.
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Sorry, but what vote? I haven't seen anything on Twitter, am I missing something?
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@D3spair said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3073316#Comment_3073316
Solo queue was already miserable before the Update. I don't see a Solo Queue group of Survivors should be able win a high MMR Killer even before the update.
o "Unavoidable killers with specific builds make the game the most unenjoyable experience where all you'll want to say is, "Next." "
- Again it's the first day, Have you guys not heard of adapting? Blight was so unfun to play as when he was first released now look at the guy.
o Nobody wants to sit in 20+ minute games because it's Legion stacking all the slowdown imaginable.
- Thanathophobia was buffed to increased like 2%? Legion could have stacked all the slowdown perks pre update and we could have the same results. The only difference is M1 Gameplay was buffed making Legion's downing power to increase.
You're forgetting that they increased the gen times to 90s, so slowdown is more effective than it was before the update.
I faced a few thana legions, it wasn't necessarily fun, but managable, it's still Legion. But I was also playing duo swf and it was only thana, so I'm not sure how managable it would be in solo and with more slowdown perks stacked.
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@voorheesgt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3070494#Comment_3070494
That was to keep add-ons you didn't want to lose. Not because of it robbing prestige levels.
I guess he assumed that people would already know that you can get prestige levels based on the amount of perks that you unlocked, because that was already mentioned when the PTB released, just the P1 -> P3 instead of P1 -> P2 was new.
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He pinned a comment under that video which clarified that you should not prestige if you have a lot of perks/addons on a character.
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@GeneralV said:
I will never forget A Nurse's Calling Meta.
I got it from the shrine in 2019 and had very fun matches with it. Helped me many times too.
If I was still playing DBD, I would certainly run it. Especially after this new update drops.
Everyone who follows the old ways has my respect.
I used Nurse's Calling on Doc when it still worked on snapping out of it. When they removed that I was a bit sad, even though I understand why.
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@patwas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3066055#Comment_3066055
Yeah, thats what confusing me. I've heard that getting lvl 40 and unlocking teachables will basically grant me tier 3 perks on all other killers. I have to make a decision to either buy a new killer get him to level 40, or just p1 all other that i have. Sad thing I must choose one or another and I dont know how much time do I have before update
I'm 99% sure that unlocking the teachable will only give you the perk on tier 1 on the other characters (see the quote I added to the other asnwer, it is from the PTB Patch Notes), to unlock the perks on tier 3 on the other characters you need to either reach P1 or unlock 170 perk tiers.
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As far as I know unlocking the teachables before the update counts as if you had reached P1 after the update, you will have those perks on tier 1 on the other characters.
But, if you still have time before the update it might be worth to level the Killers whose perks you like to 50 and prestige them, because your P1 before the update will count as P3 after the update so you will have the perks unlocked on tier 3 on all the other characters. (You will lose your addons though)
That's how I understood the new system, no guarantee though.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065900#Comment_3065900
Devs punish you for holding a 3 gen and call it "taking the game hostage." The survivors who refuse to do their objective? They are Gucci, mang.
That is not true:
And about the survivors doing nothing:
There is also this post, a survivor admits to hiding when they are upset with the Killer:
And those are not the only examples I found.
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@drsoontm said:
It sounds unlikely. The frame-rate has nothing to do with the netcode. The rendering part of the engine, something that's most likely 100% Epic Games, is time-based.
The effects of the network message are changing internal states independently.
The rubber-banding also seem to happen during interactions which don't affect the work required for the rendering significantly.
That issue happens for everyone, no matter the power of the machine, which also points away from rendering.
Finally, the rubber-banding usually appears like a stutter or a step back but not always.
Once, it happened to me while I was opening the lockers and the animation replayed : that stuff is messing with the game time. I've considered the possibility it was the side effect of some kind of anti-cheat (speed-hacks) messing up.
Weirdly, I've had no problems with the rubberbanding at all, it never happened to me. My PC is not the best and frame drops got worse for me with the last updates, but no rubberbands.
My bf plays with 60 fps but does rubberband sometimes.
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There are 59 characters that you have to level to 50 to get to prestige 1, which will unlock all the teachable perks (you still need to level normally to get all the general perks on 3 though) on tier 3.
That will still be about 88.500.00 BP so it's not like you are getting it for free. Also, P1-P3 will not unlock the bloody skins anymore, so if players want them, they still have to grind for them.
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@Aneurysm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3060817#Comment_3060817
Okay yeah that's more recent. That answers the question to why people say 50% and raises a few more about behaviour's internal communications
Definitely.
There is also this comment, which might be an explanation why a 50% kill rate might be considered to low:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1237813#Comment_1237813
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@Aneurysm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3060804#Comment_3060804
I see...
The 60% figure does come two years after that comment so maybe there was a change of heart? That or they can't make up their minds
Maybe, but this comment is from Peanits aswell and to me it sounds like 50% is still the goal:
@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768697#Comment_2768697
I'm not sure where you've seen 2 kills 2 escapes every match, but if you have it on hand, please let me know and I'll see if we can correct it. The actual target is 2 kills 2 escapes average. i.e. All matches together average out to a 50% kill/escape rate.
In general I found multiple 50% kill rate statements from Peanits, so that can atleast answer your question why people mention 50% as goal for the kill rate.
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@Aneurysm said:
I don't know why everyone always says they want a 50% kill rate. The only percentage I've heard them use is 60%
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2DZ2UICUC4QZ/screenshot-20220714-125338-418.png
Source: https://squadstate.com/feature/dead-by-daylight-creative-director-talks-sbmm-moris-pinhead-the-grind-interview-with-dave-richard
Seems like there are different opinions between the Devs:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866726#Comment_866726
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055630#Comment_3055630
It took me 10 minutes scrolling through my own comments while knowing the month I'd have to search for.
So let's just say, I'm a bit sceptical about those 2 minutes.
You're not searching effectively. In the forums search function you can search for posts from one specific author so you don't need to scroll through post historys.
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Th update resets your bloodwebs so I think it will be even more: 50.000 to finish the bloodweb and 50.000 prestige tax, so about 3,1 Mio. for the survs and 2,8 Mio for the Killers.
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@PNgamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3046833#Comment_3046833
To make it clear once again. I never said anything about bullysquads on this tread. For such questions you should contact @Mister_xD
Yeah, but you said there are no swfs that play normally, they either annoy or insult the killer, so you did not use the word "bully squad" but you implied it.
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@PNgamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3046705#Comment_3046705
There is a difference between saying and thinking
So you say that all survs are bully squads but you think otherwise?
Or how am I supposed to interpret this vague statement?
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@PNgamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3043075#Comment_3043075
Please don't twist my words. I never said anything about Bully Squads.
If anyone has said or thought the term, it's you. I in any case not
Thank you
"Unfortunately, in my 7500 hours, I have never come across a SWF group that plays normally. Either the killers get annoyed or when you beat them it gets toxic in chat."
Atleast to me that statement sounds like you think that all swfs are bully squads in one way or another.
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I don't know if that helps you, but my laurie is P1 Level 50 (just 50, I'm pretty sure that I had less than 70 perk tiers unlocked) and she was P2 Level 50 on PTB, so I think you're right.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3042821#Comment_3042821
Isn't the Shrine on a permanent 24 hour rotation after the update though?
It isn't mentioned in the patch notes or the dev update so I don't think so:
I think the 24hour rotation was only for the event, but even if the shrine would rotate, you might not have enough shards available and you have less time to earn them. Also what I forgot to mention is, that you can also use shards to buy characters, so again it would put you into a situation where you have to decide between spending money or faster progression.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3042467#Comment_3042467
That is not what I mean. What I mean is if a person only plays a few characters, what do they care about the grind for the rest? Just ignore them and you can literally buy the perks you want from the Shrine directly. You never have to touch a character you are not interested in.
I don't think the shrine is a good solutions, it is still random as far as I know and with 204 perks you can wait really long. Also, accumulating shards takes awhile, especially if you play mainly one side, and some people like to buy cosmetics without spending real money, so it might be unpleasant having to decide between cosmetics or reducing the grind.
I can't guarantee that my calculations are right, but if they are, you need 1.300 level to unlock all the perks on one survivor with the old system. With the new system you need already 1.479 Level to get all the characters to prestige 1 and at that point you still need to unlock 174 perk tiers (since you go back to level 1 after you prestige it is a bit harder to calculate how many levels you need, but I think 146). So what I'm trying to say is, it is worse if you play strictly one character and I already mentioned above why I don't think it is a good idea to rely on the shrine to solve that.
For me personally the change is not bad, I like having more perks on the survs that I have not leveled much (but many of my characters are only at 40, so I'm profitting that much from the new system because of the way the Devs transfer the teachables). But I think it will not help new players, the group who is affected to most by the grind much.
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@Zephinism said:
To get the perk on all other characters immediately post-update
Yellow perks of that character for all other characters requires you to have 70-119 Perk points.
Green perks of that character for all other characters requires you to have 120-169 Perks points.
Purple perks of that character for all other characters requires you to have 170-219 Perks points.
Each perk your character owns is worth points based on the rarity of the perk.
Yellow perk = 1 point. Green = 2 points. Purple = 3 points.
You get the tier 1 perks of a character on the other characters if you bought the teachables, so you don't need 70 perk points reaching level 40 and unlocking the teachable is enough.
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@Zeidoktor said:
Related, one thing I've wondered is do the character's base 3 perks count as tiers, given them a +3 by default?
I think they do.
My survs who have all the perks on 3 are prestige 6 now, but Jane, who has all the perks but two of them are tier two, so she is prestige 5. So I assume that the other characters have 321 perks and she only has 319 perks. If the 3 base tiers wouldn't count, my other survs should be at five aswell.
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Prove thyself gives you extra bloodpoints so people might just play it at to moment because of the flans/bloodrush.
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@ermsy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3025757#Comment_3025757
That's a fair assessment of the history of the perk, it will be interesting to see if it's an issue on the ptb. I would argue that the fact that killers specifically used enduring to counter Ds says something.
And when it comes to head on I'm not comparing the usage, purpose or strength of the perk. I'm purely comparing the 3 second stun, if you can get away after using head on then surely that would apply to ds no?
DS was a very hated perk (for good reasons) and if I remember the forum posts at that time correctly many people worried that the nerfs would not be enough so I'm would not be surprised if people decided to bring Enduring just because of their experiences with the old ds, but I might be wrong abou that.
I'm not sure if you use time for the animation when you stun with head on like you do with ds, so that might be a factor, but I don't really use head on, so I can't really judge that.