Steah
Steah
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@Pilot said:
In 1v1 are you talking about when the killer just found you?
A good soloQ survivor will feel stronger in the 1v1 aspect.
A good survivor in an SWF will feel stronger in both aspects.
The 1v1 is the chase.
The 4v1 is the broader picture like creating dead zones, generator placement, trying to 3 gen. Stuff like that.
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@Seanzu said:
Are survivors actually asking for buffs? I don't see it very often at all, they just want specific killers (Spirit / Slinger) to have fun meaningful counterplay that isn't guessing.
I can't remember the last time I ever saw "survivors" asking for specific general buffs.
You get the odd one asking for buffs, i'm just saying that survivors want to be strong in the 4v1 and the 1v1.
Survivors have an inherent advantage in the 4v1 because they have the numbers. But a lot of them seem to want to be strong in the 1v1 as well and tend not to be a fan of killers who dominate the 1v1
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2293492#Comment_2293492
okay, this whole discussion is getting stupid, so this'll be my final comment on it.
in case you havent figured out how online VS games function yet: yes, there are always a ton of strategies possible, but there will always be that one strategy that is stronger than all the others, the so called "meta". This is what people play to win, this is what the experienced players use to compete against each other. said "meta" can also very clearly differentiate itself from what the Developers thought it was going to be, leading to a scenario such as GFs or Demogorgons where the Add Ons are centered around what the Devs thought was going to be the main part of their ability, but ended up being only the secondary aspect of their power - stalking for GF and portals for Demo.
as for GF, that meta is to just get in there and slap them, then hide and return while they are recovering from the very first ambush. yes, technically speaking it is POSSIBLE for you to stalk and expose them, just to be eating pallets until the minutes up while praying to god the others havent figured out they can repair gens yet, but that one is not how you play the killer in high level play (if, for whatever reason, you decide to play him at all, seeing how he is pretty much outclassed by Wraith in a majority of things he can do (but that is an entirely different topic & got nothing to do with Spine Chill as a Perk)).
in general i have the feeling that you were shifting the topic of this discussion around quite a lot to be more in your favor - lets not forget that the main topic at hand was me stating that a Survivor running Spine Chill (which is a mild inconvenience for 90% of killers and mostly only annoying on GF & Myers, as it makes their job a bit harder) is nowhere near comparable to a Spirit running Stridor (effectively eliminating any form of counterplay there is to her).
if you want to discuss Pigs balance, go over to Scorpionz on Twitch. He is by far the most experienced Pig player i've seen and RBTs being her secondary ability is a statement i took directly from him (and i really dont have the nerves to discuss that right now. its got nothing to do with this discussion and would just end up shifting the topic around even further)
and if you want to discuss Myers balance, just go ahead and watch this video Scott made a short while ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7wp7RrzRfw&ab_channel=ScottJund
its a good video - and the very first point he addresses is getting out of Tier 1 as Myers so it is quite relevant to this topic.
so in conclusion:
Spine Chill VS Myers & GF:
annoying? yes.
a hard counter to their abilities? absolutely not. and inconvenience, yes, but nothing more than that.
comparable to Stridor Spirit? absolutely not.
The convo was shifted here because your defense to me saying that spine chill shuts down GF was to tell me that you shouldn't being using that part of his kit. Also if you are playing complete Meta then you wouldn't be playing any of the killers mentioned here. It would be Nurse and Spirit only.
The Scott Jund video doesn't mention spine chill. He does mention you need to get out of tier 1 asap and spine chill makes that harder.
Look i think spirit is stupid, i want her changed. But spine chill is also stupid, i want it changed as well. Just because they are different in power level doesn't mean they are analogous.
Stridor Spirit shuts down normal looping and forces survivors to try and hide for their best bet.
Spine Chill shuts down GF stalk and turns him into a really ######### wraith. Myers also gets screwed by it.
Both shut down something for no reason and should be changed, not nerfed, just changed. If you still don't see it then i will never be able to word it in a way for you to get it.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2293497#Comment_2293497
You’re not understanding the point of that. It’s to incentivise the Obsession to NOT stay constantly on gens. 3 survivors are afflicted with a DIRECT slow down, and the Obsession indirectly continues to slow the game down by trying to offset the rest of teams slower altruism abilities by going for the saves and heals wherever possible.
So although the Obsession is unaffected by the de-buff, and SHOULD stay on gens, they’re given a reason NOT to stay on gens.
Yeah that makes it ######### bad. You have a minor debuff that only ever applies to 3 people at most. Goes away if the obsession dies, and gives a free perk to the obsession. That's bad.
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First survivor match was vs a Freddy. I was sprint burst Meg. My friend was trying to explain to what to do while i streamed to him and he was also trying to explain what the dream world is and then i got found, hooked, and my team never came to unhook me. It was on Fractured Cowshed
First killer match i was Wraith with blood hound. I managed to hook everyone once but didn't understand the concept of gen defense so i would spend a lot of time chasing people where there are no gens. I managed 1 kill because i pretty brutally tunneled 1 guy at the end game collapse. He yelled at me in the post game but i told him i didnt know what tunneling was and just wanted at least 1 k. It was on Grim Pantry
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2293520#Comment_2293520
The mangled pin got changed to last until healed. There was a sweeping change to mangled a few patches ago where all mangled effects last until healed.
Well then double pins sounds decent actually. I didn't know that actually, thanks for telling me.
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@Judgement said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2293497#Comment_2293497
I stack it with Thanatophobia. I particularly like to do this with double-pin Legion (mangled + broken pins).
Yeah if you can stack it with other perks it's fine if that's the build you want. But you are probably better off bringing almost any other perk.
Also don't bring Green and Yellow pins. They don't work together. You hit someone, apply broken and mangled for 60 seconds. They can't be healed for 60 seconds because they are broken and after those 60 seconds are gone they are no longer mangled. Makes it so your yellow add on never actually does anything
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Never use this perk unless you are stacking slowdown perks. Dying Light is the worst killer perk. M.Shrine may do nothing, but at least it doesn't give the Obsession a free Botany Knowledge
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2293322#Comment_2293322
I mean this is just cognitive dissonance at this point. Saying you don't stalk as GF is just bad play. Not stalking as him just turns him into a [BAD WORD] version of Wraith. Invisible. can't be broken out of stealth, and way faster when stealthed. GF's advantage over him is the one shotting with stalk.
false. GFs advantage over Wraith is that he can immediately attack out of his stealth, while Wraith has to ring his bell first. it means ambush attacks are much easier as Ghostie.
You are arguing that it is okay for spine chill to do what it does currently to GF and Myers, so yes, you are saying it's okay for a perk to shut down a killer's kit and playstyle
either you just dont want to understand it or you havent read any of my previous posts. stalking for GF is a SECONDARY part of his ability, you can still access his main power - and Myers literally doesnt give a **** whether they know hes there or not, you can just stalk them over a loop.
in addition to both i might want to add that Spine Chill doesnt reveal the Killer, meaning that even if they know you are looking in their general direction they have no idea where you are and therefore cant just dodge it immediately. you will still get some decent stalk progress with both Killers.
You are deciding that stalking is a secondary part of his kit. Where is that written? You also said that RBT are secondary part of pig when they are the best part of her hands down. It is still part of his kit, it is expected that you use them. You can choose not to use them but that is ineffective play. A killer having multiple parts of their power doesn't make them secondary. Should Doc not use Static Blast because it's secondary to Shock Therapy? Should clown never use yellow bottles because purple bottles exist? Demo shouldn't use portals, they aren't his shred. Which ability should i not use on Freddy? His snares or TP. I don't know which of those are secondary. Shame about the Phead cage mechanic, giving him his punishment of the damn for some reason means you shouldn't use his cage.
Also yes GF without stalk is bad wraith. You can hit right away vs Can't be broken out of stealth, faster movement speed, insane lunge and speed boost after uncloak. I shouldn't need to type this out for you.
You think they are secondary, that doesn't make them secondary. No where is that written. You arbitrarily determine that GF stalk is secondary because you don't like to use his stalk when you play him. That is okay, i am not going to tell you that you have to stalk when you play GF. However, you are not every GF player nor do you determine the best way to play him. Just because you say something, does not make it correct.
Myers absolutely gives a ######### if the survivors know where he is in tier 1. You clearly have not played much Myers vs competent survivors if you think them noticing you and running away to break sight lines isn't a disastrous start for Myers
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Probably the best thread made on here in a long time. Appreciate the time you put into the research.
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@Tizzle said:
Spine Chill?
Really?
As stated above, it's a terrible perk already that is only used by players that are completely unaware of their surroundings.
If it's that bad and no one uses it then changing it shouldn't be a big deal, right?
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@NerfedFreddy said:
Spine chill is fine. Stealth killers are already annoying enough. Stealth in pvp is completely unfun mechanics for opposite side
It depends. Some people really enjoy stealth. What you may find annoying other's might find fun. People clearly like stealth as their are stealth killers.
@DemonDaddy said:
Chase stalling should not work on every killer. 1v1 is killer favored otherwise the whole game doesn't function.
But didn't you know survivors need to have the advantage in the 4v1 and the 1v1?
@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2293078#Comment_2293078
first off: YOU were the one arguing whether Stridor Spirit was OP or not. i simply stated that Stridor Spirit is not a good comparison to a Survivor running Spine Chill.
secondly, seeing how you dont seem to get it: you. do. not. stalk. as. Ghost Face.
But you think that a killer shutting down a play style is bad.
i never said that btw.
You think it's okay if survivors have perks that screw killers powers
once again, i never said that.
I mean this is just cognitive dissonance at this point. Saying you don't stalk as GF is just bad play. Not stalking as him just turns him into a ######### version of Wraith. Invisible. can't be broken out of stealth, and way faster when stealthed. GF's advantage over him is the one shotting with stalk.
You are arguing that it is okay for spine chill to do what it does currently to GF and Myers, so yes, you are saying it's okay for a perk to shut down a killer's kit and playstyle, in fact so much so that you are trying to justify this by saying you just don't stalk on GF which is just flat out wrong. Go watch anyone play GF, they are gonna use the stalk mechanic. Not using it is dumb and is hampering you for no reason.
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2290394#Comment_2290394
yeah im just gonna keep this short: you are heavily overrating the stalking mechanic.
Ghostfaces main power is not stalking people, its going into a stealth mode. just walk up to them and grab / hit them when they dont expect it, thats how you play GF. not stalking someone is not "getting your power stuffed".
Myers Power is a lot more reliant on the stalk (especially in Tier 1), but since Survivors can not break you out of it stalking your way up to Tier 2 / 3 even mid chase is not a hard task at all. so Myers doesnt even care about Spinechill nearly as much as GF doesn, as he is just going to keep stalking them during the chase. another case of not "getting your power stuffed".
and im not even going to bother with a debate on whether Stridor Spirit is stupidly overpowered or not, because we all know she is. If you disagree then please, do share your secrets on how you can reliantly counterplay a Stridor Spirit. "just dont get found", am i right? that argument is about the equivalent as telling a killer to "just apply map pressure" when facing a 4 man genrush SWF - its stupid and it is nowhere near as easy as you try to make it sound.
So as I have stated many times I want spirit changed so she doesn't make looping a guessing game. I literally need to repeat myself for people to get that I guess.
But you think that a killer shutting down a play style is bad. But a perk shutting off parts of a killer kit is fine. You say GF power isn't getting stuffed but then tell me that its not that important so don't use it. Yes his power is getting stuffed. You literally don't use his stalk. At that point you are making GF into a bad version of Wraith. And yes it does affect Myers because if you are playing him normally you need to get put tier 1 asap and the longer you get a good sight line on someone the better. If you get the greatest angle possible it doesn't matter because they are gonna figure it out with spine chill.
You think it's okay if survivors have perks that screw killers powers, but its not okay if a killer screws a survivor play style is what It comes down to.
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asymmetrical online pvp game. It's gonna bring out the worst in people
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2290691#Comment_2290691
Sorry for the book, I'm very passionate about NOED being a solo queue destroyer. Understandable if you don't read, I don't blame you. ❤
That's why i don't NOED should be nerfed but totem counter should be implementedI agree and while we're at it, make NOED even stronger since SWF or not, you have no excuse to not have totems done.
Also the perk existing in the pool itself giving value applies to a lot of survivor perks. Soul guard, Unbreakable, DS, Power Struggle. I have to play like everyone has those at all times.Soul Guard, Unbreakable, Power Struggle [paired with Flip-Flop] is countered by simply not slugging. That takes only 3 seconds to do after recovering from a successful attack by pressing Pick Up. Let's say you need to slug, you have exactly 32 seconds [23.70 secs with Unbreakable] to do whatever you need to do and get back for the pick up. If you're in a situation where you're slugging multiple survivors, I don't think them recovering would even matter if you have such a tremendous amount of pressure. It would only matter in edge cases, but those are apparently the only ones killers seem to bring up when they talk about Unbreakable. However, they never talk about the other games where they didn't slug and made any survivor who were using the perk, have essentially 3 perks for the game.
As for DS, there's many conditions and a timer attached to it. Therefore, for you to get hit by DS:
- You gambled on them not having DS by picking them up
- Survivor's DS is active by meeting all requirements and the timer hasn't expired
It's very difficult to get hit by DS whereas NOED, it's almost impossible to avoid it unless you and your team throw the game. Solo queue really does make killer perks seem more powerful than they really are, but it's even worse for killer perks designed to destroy solo queue.
Anyways, as for combining perks such as DS and Unbreakable, that's all countered by not tunnelling then slugging unhooked survivors. You're essentially removing 2 perks for any survivor running this combo, which is very nice. Granted it removes your ability to slug / tunnel, it doesn't matter since they aren't required to win unless you're playing a low tier killer. However, at that point, our attention should be placed on making low tier killers better since killers shouldn't need to slug / tunnel to win. Key word, need.
I don't disagree with anything you said. It's just once you get to a high enough level, playing nice as a killer is going to lose you games. You have 3 tactics you can pick, and it's tunneling, camping, or slugging. I tend towards slugging when possible. If i play like everyone has unbreakable all the time and i can't slug it basically screws me
Also for power struggle i meant more so for taking longer to hook someone or putting them on a hook i dont want them on because i don't want to carry them through a pallet and risk it.
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@DTJObe said:
Does it proc when a survivor goes to injured from Plague’s infection? If so, that would be amazing. Infect multiple survivors and anyone who chooses not to cleanse gets hit with Oblivious. That would add pressure and incentive to cleanse, giving Plague more Corrupt Purge and ranged attacks.
@Edgars_Raven said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2290711#Comment_2290711
Might be worth a test. I still dont know how useful it would be
No it doesn't work like that. It only works when a healthy survivor takes damage unfortunately. Once every one is infected it won't do anything.
Funny enough it does proc when a survivor uses For the People though.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2290054#Comment_2290054
The only reason why NOED is any good is due to the fact it automatically punishes you for playing solo queue. You have no communication from the other survivors, meaning you have no idea how many totems are cleansed unless you physically see each and everyone of them destroyed. The same applies to every other survivor, each and everyone of them will need to physically see the destroyed totems to know when NOED is deactivated. At that point, you and your team wasted so much time that any mediocre killer and up would've won the game a long time ago. The worst part is that killer might not be running NOED and still get equal value from the perk simply existing in the perk pool.
So, whenever people complain about NOED, just remember it's probably because they are in solo queue. Any counter-argument you may have doesn't work, but if think you have one that I haven't hear of — give it to me and we'll discuss.
By the way, I hate NOED, obviously, but I don't want it nerfed by any means. It just needs to not be a solo queue destroyer, so rework it to not be a solo queue destroyer and I could careless on what it does.
That's why i don't NOED should be nerfed but totem counter should be implemented. Also the perk existing in the pool itself giving value applies to a lot of survivor perks. Soul guard, Unbreakable, DS, Power Struggle. I have to play like everyone has those at all times.
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@Sandwich_Jesus said:
I want to know what people classify as a win as both a killer and survivors as many have difference ideas to what classifies as a win.
I personally feel like as a killer 1k is a loss, 2k is a draw and 3k to 4k is a win.
And as a survivor 1 escaping is a loss, two escaping is a draw and three or four of us escaping is a win.
Depends. If i'm doing some dumb meme build and i pull it off, that's a win.
If not a 4k or a 3k plus hatch. 2k is a draw and 1k or less is a loss
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@Bill_I_Am__Overbeck said:
I mean, you only get 60 seconds of the oblivious status effect on the survivor and the obsession changes? Come on! It needs a buff.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/XYJH9NU51HVP/gotem-jpg.jpg
Based
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He's like the only one i can think of really.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Killers dominating casual SWFs and Solos. Those are groups which are weaker than Killers.
First Hook-Suicides and DCs will also be a little bit, but not really that impactful IMO.
In general, those Killrates dont say much, except that Killer is not as bad as people claim it to be.
First hooks and dc play a bigger part than you expect. Someone kills themselves on first hook and the killer doesn't want to play nice pretty much guarantees a 4k
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Her screams after her blinks would still be a dead give away.
@Edgars_Raven said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2290409#Comment_2290409
I guess if you get a team that just refuses to heal it could be ok? Like sometimes i run coulorophobia + sloppy + distressing on doc, could work as a 4th perk. Might also pair well with forced penance if you happen to be running that perk and happen to to run into a body blocking squad, but then you also have to know right where that survivor is thats oblivious.
Yeah but you don't know how survivors will play. Iron grasp, Agitation, Starstruck and Mad grit is a god tier set up vs body blockers. But if they don't bodyblock you're screwed.
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Honestly the green key shouldn't be a key. It should look like something else, maybe a compass. Just so i know as a killer that they are using it for the add ons and not the gimme escape.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2290394#Comment_2290394
They have 2.5 second of warning and spine chill does nothing that paying attention to your surroundings doesn't do. I haven't used the perk in years and I still have no real trouble going against stealth killers.
Well that is the counter play to stealth killers. It sounds like you're a good survivor player than. If the counter play to stealth killers is to stay alert and look at your surroundings, and the play for stealth killers is to keep out of sight and find creative sight lines to stalk from, then why would changing it be a problem?
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The biggest issue hands down is that it's a Hex totem and the effect isn't nearly strong enough to warrant that.
Ruin, NOED, Devour are all very strong but inconsistent because of the nature of Hexes and can be turned off.
Why would i use a perk that can 1.Be turned off (pretty consistently too because of the bad totem and survivor spawns) 2. even if it does last, it's affect is okay at best.
Inconsistent and mediocre is not a good combination.
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@Daisymoon87 said:
Mine is a toss up between the Red Forest and Glenvale. I love the gloomy feel to the Red Forest and it is the map to my favorite killer, the beautiful Huntress. However, I absolutely love Glenvale and think it's one of the most beautiful maps. I love the piano playing in the main building, the hung man in the streets and it's probably the map I learned the quickest.
Survivor main. Unfortunately, I don't escape these two maps very often. 😂
Father Campbells Chapel.
Perfect size. Strong tiles that can chain into other strong tiles but doesn't chain the whole map. A main building that is decent for survivors and not a nightmare for killers, a carnival area that is somewhat weak but can still buy a decent amount of time if used correctly, and decent gen spread.
My only complaints are 1. Shares it's realm with Crotus Penn. i hate that map and i don't want to use an offering that might send me there. 2. The totem spawns could be better.
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@Zokenay said:
I guess it would work better on a killer that can injure survivors easily, like Legion.
Since not having a terror radius on injured survivors can screw them over if they are desperate on a gen or too aggressive
Idk, the perk overall isnt that useful in my opinion, unlike the other two, one which is likely meta for some killers (Lethal Pursuer)
Actually it's kind of a poor choice on legion. It sounds really good but when a survivor is oblivious, they won't show up on your killer instinct when you hit someone with feral frenzy.
Good in theory but has anti synergy with Legion.
It's also not good on plague because most people never cleanse and it only works when someone who is healthy gets hit and you'll get use out of that as plague once or twice a match.
Also not good on stealth killers like wraith.
I'm really struggling to think who does well with this perk. Can't be stealth, can't have a lullaby, and has to be able to spread out injuries easily, but also allows survivors to heal.
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I have gotten rotten fields, cow shed, ormond, midwhich, pale rose, coal tower, and haddonfield for 90% of matches since the patch dropped. I don't know if there is some map weighting system that rotates, or i've been unlucky.
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@MadLordJack said:
Spine Chill doesn't "shut down" any killer, they're just weak and you're reaching for an excuse.
Sorry to say, but I've been in plenty of trials with absolutely zero Spine Chill and they still run the moment I start stalking. Why? Because you have a bright white mask and they were paying attention.
It actually does shut them down. Even if you have an amazing spot, they will still get the alert and will run away. Also if you are having a lot of issues with people running away from you when you try to stalk and they don't have spine chill, that sounds like you are picking piss poor positions to stalk and should reevaluate your play.
@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2287994#Comment_2287994
Why is it not comparable?
because one is a Perk that causes Ghostface to have to slightly look away while approaching, while the other is an blatantly overpowered combination that eliminates any form of possible counterplay Spirit has.
one is a slight inconvenience, the other an instant death sentence.
and no, "just hide" doesnt work. there are way too many Perks covering exactly that weakness (e.g. BBQ & Chili, Lethal Pursuer, Infectious Fright, ...)
You really need to read my man. Yes, i have thoroughly stated that you can crab walk to a gen to counter play spine chill. That is why despite having stealth built into her kit, i did not mention Pig being hard countered by Spine Chill because as stupid as it looks you can crab walk to counter it.
What about GF and Myers. Once you get there you HAVE to look at the to stalk. You cannot stalk out of your ears. So what do i do then? Again, not the point where i'm approaching, the part when i'm there and i HAVE to look at them.
Also spirit really isn't an insta win with stridor. She wasn't even top kill percentage last time they put out stats. Also you can use stealth perks to counter tracking perks if you don't like that much. So yes it is comparable, no having your power stuffed by a perk is not a minor inconvenience and for one final time to really get my point across i am not talking about the crab walking to the gen, i am talking about stalking with GF and Myers because you have to look at them. Also no, stridor spirit is not insta death. I have escaped trials from a stridor spirit, as i'[m sure you have as well. I have played Stridor spirit and i do not have a 100% kill percentage with her. It is not insta death. I think it's stupid that she turns the chase into a guessing game and i want that changed. But if spine chill stopping GF and Myers from stalking (NOT APPROACHING WHEN YOU CAN CRAB WALK) then spirit doing that to chases is fine.
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@odra said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2290102#Comment_2290102
wow sluzzy reborn, try playing killer then
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2290095#Comment_2290095
as i said you still can stalk and use the power it's not as near as hard counter
I can't stalk when they run. And if they have spine chill they know when to run. No terror radius plus spine chill perma lit up? That just means run.
While it does not completely make it so you can't stalk at all, it is as close to a hard counter without completely turning Myers and GF power off.
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When looping he's like a Huntress. It's a mindgame of whether or not he will m1 or m2.
Think he will m2? Do another lap, crouch if you have to. Think he will m1? Drop the pallet or vault.
Plus his m2 takes 3 hits to down you through 2 speed bursts. As well as needing to build up to being able to break pallets with his m2.
He really isn't that insanely oppresive at loops.
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@van9684 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2289904#Comment_2289904
I see you put a lot into that novel
above but I don’t have time to read that mess. Killers easy and requires no skill. That is why killers struggle in red ranks. Survivors have to grind and eventually get good, whereas killer tops out.
Unfortunately, the part where i responded to you is 7 sentences. If you think that is a novel i suggest stepping away from DBD and brush up on your reading skills.
Also you can say anything you want, that doesn't make it true. A lot of survivor mains on this forum seem to think that.
The only thing we can gather from your posts is that you're a troll or delusional. If you want to reply fine by me, by try to keep it on thread.
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@odra said:
btw ghost and myers still can do his power against spine chill its just not that effective secondly there's no rule about that killer power cant be countered, lets say DS can be countered by PH. even though he needs extra work same as ghost and myers for spine chill surv
The trade off is Phead cant use hook perks like Pop to compensate. Also when it comes to killer countering perks, that is 1 of 4 perks that isn't working as intended. 1 perk countering the whole point of a killer is different.
I still think spirit is stupid in a chase and should be looked at. But if it's fine for a single survivor perk to hard counter 2 killers power, then it is fine for 1 killer to counter the main playstyle that most people use in dbd. You can always hide vs a spirit and try not to get in chase.
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Like Wrath said, people can just camp. Also it would have to update them on my HUD so even without the notification i could see they got unhooked.
Some people will always tunnel and you cannot change that.
I don't tunnel unless 1. I've spread out hooks too much and they are down to 2 or 1 gen and no one is dead. I need someone dead at that point to win. 2. The survivor that gets unhooked has BT on them and they keep trying to body block me. Don't want my attention, they get out of the way. 3. The survivor that unhooked someone hides when i come back to the hook. I can find the person who was hooked because they are bleeding and loud. I don't want to go for them but if i can't find the Blendette who saved then my options are down the guy who just got unhooked or let him go for free. If you expect the killer to let you go for free you are entitled
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Any hex totems can be countered by terrible spawns which most maps have and 3 survivor perks and maps.
BBQ gets used for the most part for the BP. Even then, lockers, being behind a gen, or walking one way and then walking the other way counters the aura reading.
NOED. See my hex totem point.
Pop. Pop already got nerfed. Gen's fly as it is without regression perks and Pop is the best one. You can nerf Pop again if you want but gen speeds would need to get looked at.
No, your team mates not doing totems or not knowing how to counter BBQ doesn't make the perks good, it makes your team mates bad. We can nerf BBQ and Hex totems and people are still not going to cleanse totems or hid in a locker for BBQ.
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@van9684 said:
Which perks counter a killers power? And I mean like break the game or are not strictly anti tunneling perks? Killers have Noed, bbq, hexes, etc. Its simply not comparable. Take ds for example. It’s a few second stun if being tunneled. Take Noed now, which grants killers even more speed and insta downs at end of match, providing unearned kills for unskilled killers. Which is more impactful? Show me one survivor perk that can take the game hostage, and I’ll wait here.
What are you even talking about? I mention Spine Chill screwing GF and Myers. And now you're on about DS and NOED? This literally has nothing to do with my thread. But to answer your question, Calm spirit counters doctor, Spine chill counters GF and Myers.
Also for the love of god if you do not like NOED just go and cleanse the totems. On the majority of maps they are easy to find and if you still don't like it bring small game, detectives hunch, counterforce, or a map.
@kingbojenbo said:
Spine Chill is fine as is. Killers have many counters to survivor stealth so why can't survivors have something that helps with killer stealth, to me that is fair. If hard counters to killers are an issue for you then there are other perks that should be considered. Calm Spirit counters Doctor, Urban Evasion counters Hag and Pyramid Head, Fixated to an extent counters Spirit and not to mention any survivor perks that counter killer perks. Any actual change to Spine Chill would be a nerf unless you raise the radius and remove the speed to balance it. If you lower the radius and even if you keep the speed it's still a nerf. And those other perks I mentioned, do those get nerfed as well?
I use Spine Chill to give me a head start when the killer is coming my way but even then I still have to see what direction the killer is coming from. Some killers have added speed outside their normal speed and the warning at least lets me gain distance for a chance against the killer.
I promise I'm not looking down at your point of view but if you feel that way about Spine Chill then you might feel that way about those other perks too. Unless it's because Spine Chill counters the killers you play as the most. I feel like their are more game breaking issues that need to be looked at instead.
Well I did mention that Calm Spirit is just as a big of an offender as Spine Chill when it comes to messing with a killer, Doctor in that case. But no one uses it. If Calm Spirit was a very popular perk i would suggest it needs to get changed as well.
Also people need to stop saying it's a nerf. You can change a perk without nerfing or buffing it. They changed Thana to stop affecting healing but gave it more impact on gen speed, was that a nerf? I would rate it around the same power level after the change as it was before the change.
I disagree with Urban and Fixated being counters. If i'm setting off a Hag trap it's because i'm either running from the hag or i didn't see it. Urban isn't going to help in those situations. Same with torment trail. I only step in the trail when i'm running from Phead. I'm not getting much value out of urban evasion during a chase. Fixated is the same thing, i'm already trying to not get into a chase vs a spirit, so walking 20% faster isn't going to do much. If she does find me and phases, good spirits will just use sounds to figure out where you are, even if you are walking.
A great example is how Slippery Meat used to be a specific counter to Trapper. They changed it so it does not specifically counter Trapper anymore even though they kept it around the same power level.
In terms of perks countering each other. I'm not super familiar with all the interactions but i think in every case but one the survivor perk trumps the killer perk. Calm Spirit beats Infectious Fright. Quick n Quiet beats I'm all ears. Totem tracking perks being a hard counter to all Hexes. The only one i know where it's reversed is Stridor beating Iron Will and if you frequent the forums you should know all about how survivors feel about that interaction. But those are different from my points. A perk trumping another perk is one thing. A perk trumping a killers whole power and play style is different.
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2288172#Comment_2288172
You have to remember that Spine Chill does NOT tell them what direction you are coming from. It doesn't help them at all if you are Moonwalking or slightly looking away as you move forward. You can get very good at this. More to the point you can flash them and look away and confuse them so they don't think you are coming for them but chasing someone or moving around. In the end, Survivors have to do Generators. They will have to go through dead zones. You can confuse them and drive them to places you want them to go.
While it doesn't give a huge red arrow pointing at the killer, it does hard counter stealth. If my spine chill is perma lit up and i hear no terror radius, that means it's time for me to leave. And yes you can get around spine chill by crab walking to the gen. But answer me this, what do Myers and GF do when you have to look at the survivor to stalk them?
Your other points about forcing them to dead zones is just basic killer gameplay. Yes, Myers and GF can still go around and be epic M1 man. But every killer can do that. The whole point of Myers and GF is the stealth and stalk mechanic and we have a fairly popular perk that shuts that down and that is okay. But Stridor Spirit basically shutting down looping and making it into a guessing game? Well that is just unacceptable now. Asking survivors to not default to looping and instead try stealth vs a spirit is out of the question as far as survivors are concerned. But making GF and Myers players crab walk to gens and then not use their powers because of a perk and just be M1 man, well that is somehow acceptable?
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@indieeden7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2287970#Comment_2287970
Isn't that what makes any high tier killer good?
No because Clown shuts down loops and he isn't high tier.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2288090#Comment_2288090
Well firstly I think Stridor Spirit is as close to a free win as you can get in dbd.
Secondly if you rework Spine Chill in that way it's objectively a nerf, you can't get around not calling it a nerf, you're making it not as good.
I'm not even necessarily against reworking it in that way they would just have to be extremely careful about it because any way you look at it, it's a nerf and Spine Chill doesn't deserve a nerf in general.
You can rework a perk without nerfing it. Thanaphobia got reworked and it's about the same power. I think Spine Chill is a fine perk, but vs GF and Myers it is stupid.
@Moundshroud said:
Look, I understand your frustration. I will say, however, that Spine Chill is not the end of the world. I play Myers myself, Spooky Myers (Scratch Mirror) most of the time. I get around Spine Chill with just some minor adjustments to play style. The problem with trying to change the Perk is that it is actually more useful against the high mobility Killers like Spirit, Nurse, new and way too improved Wraith, and Blight (and to some degree Oni too). Against those Killers you need every possible warning, and have to leave the second Spine Chill flashes. You just go, don't try to guess if it is an accidental flash. You just go.
My point is that there are TONS of Perks which give Killers stealth temporarily in this game. If Spine Chill were changed to be more effective against sneaky Killers, it would also destroy its effectiveness against high mobility types who would just continue to use stealth imbuing Perks and now the time for the heads start simply won't be enough. Tinkerer, for example, is a great Perk for Killers and extremely popular with the high mobility crowd. It turns those Killers stealth. If you were to change Spine Chill, by the time you got the warning it is too late.
And what would that play style adjustment be. I'm also not sure what they could do with it. Maybe it's a matter of changing Myers and GF but the stalk they both have fits their character so well.
Spine chill is completely fine and fair vs the majority of the cast, even when they are using stealth perks like tinkerer. But to have it completly stuff the whole point of two killers kit, is ridiculous. Especially with how everyone is so hot to trot to nerf spirit because of her insane anti loop potential even though stealth is always an option vs her.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2288042#Comment_2288042
I agree that it really does hurt stealth powers but the point I'm making is that it doesn't completely counter it. You still don't know where they're coming from and GF specifically can crouch and wears dark colors. It's not like you're handed a free win or anything close to it just because you have Spine Chill, it just helps a lot.
You also aren't handed a free win when you play as Stridor Spirit. She also doesn't completely counter chase, she just turns it into a stupid guessing game which sucks.
Point i'm making is people are all for changing spirit, but you can go look at the replies yourself on that thread i made, the second you suggest not even nerfing, just changing spine chill to make it not ######### GF and Myers you get lots of push back. Just insane levels of bias.
It's okay if my side has uncounterrable things, but if your side has them, well that is just unfair no isn't it.
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It should just be a button that push and hold. "Hold A to struggle" Make it so you can not struggle if they are trying to give you hatch or something
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He needs buffs badly. They won't touch him for two years, then he will get buffed, and then nerfed again after 6 weeks.
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@xBEATDOWNSx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2287970#Comment_2287970
So what they're saying is... He's an effective and strong killer if he's able to do that 🤔
No because that's all they say. Clown also shuts down loops but most people have him down in D tier. When he gets rated highly, they magnify what he is good at, don't look at his down sides, don't see how his zombies do nothing most games, and can't explain how he out classes killers like Doctor for example
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2287994#Comment_2287994
No, you walk sideways to them until you get close and then you stalk them. It's almost impossible to break Ghost Face out of stealth anyway if you are good enough at leaning. I use Spine Chill in every build and trust me it does not completely counter stealth killers, it just helps.
So because GF is buggy it's okay to have a perk that shuts down half his kit?
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Only thing i disagree with is clown. Should be a tier higher. Add ons are solid and pinky finger is broken
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@ccactus623 said:
If you suspect it walk sideways at them spine chill is fine
Doesn't work for GF and Myers when you need to look at them with your power. \
@Wiitab360 said:
I think perks shutting down killer powers is stupid but I don't think Spirit is comparable.
Why is it not comparable?
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@xBEATDOWNSx said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LZW6Y341RUFE/screenshot-20210619-053939.png
The duality of man
Most people who put him in B tier cannot explain how he is better than killers in C tier. They just say "Oh he is good at shutting down loops".
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286944#Comment_2286944
You can counter it as any killer. I just told you how. Good day.
Except you ######### didn't. " Dont use half your kit" as Ghost Face isn't a counter to spine chill, that makes spine chill a counter to you. i REALLY shouldnt need to type things this basic out, but i guess i have to for people on the forum. The most basic things are just too much for some people
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286770#Comment_2286770
Just look a bit to the side as you're approaching so that their Spine Chill doesn't go off. With Ghost Face, the best thing to do is to not use his stalk, and it will be alright since that's only half of his ability. He's still decent if you just use his power for stealthing. With Meyers, you can start stalking but try to do it from a position where they have to run some distance before they can get to a line of sight blocker on you. But bottom line, there will be very few teams that all will have Spine Chill or that will always be alert to when you're approaching.
That's my problem with the perk. Against the majority of the cast its fine. But to have one perk counter half a killer's kit is dumb. You can counter play it by crab walking to a gen but you cant counter it as GF or Myers
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286743#Comment_2286743
It's supposed to tell you when a killer is staring at you. That's not really something you can change unless you destroy the perk or make it entirely different. It has plenty of counterplay and is the shining example of a useful, balanced perk.
So what's the counter play for it when you are Ghost Face?. Crab walk to the gen and then what? You have to look at them to stalk. Same thing goes for Myers.
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@danielmaster87 said:
Okay, so now Spine Chill is OP? It's up there with Dead Hard and Borrowed Time, is it?
No, re read what i said.
I don't want it nerfed, i want it to not ######### specific killers. They can buff it at doing other things.