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Steah
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2284494#Comment_2284494
perk was in the game before even nurse... it wasn't made to counter stealth killers
Don't tell them that. These are the people think it's fine if one perk ######### over killers but it's not fair that stridor spirit counters iron will.
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@papichulo said:
Spine chill should be kept as is. I dont think it should need a nerf/buff/rework. Honestly, so many killers have won against it so it doesnt even matter.
I mean survivors can also win against a stridor spirit, doesn't mean that she shouldn't be looked at. I don't want a nerf for it, i just want it to not screw GF over
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He's a D tier killer, C if you're feeling generous. You start off weak as hell, you speed boost survivors away to get your power but you dont damage them, survivors can get vaccines to make it so you have to do another m2 to damage them, your only rewards for ranking up is breaking pallets which is good and 1m extra which doesnt matter much. Zombies are 99% of the time tracking info that you can't do anything with and sometimes they work as a trapper trap. Too bad it's rng.
Anyone putting him up in mid C and higher have a very warped outlook on the game.
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@crixus006 said:
I think this represents how powerful it is to face a team of 4 survivors.And as only spirits AND nurses They are the only killers that can stand up to swf Because the other killers don't have enough skill
We have known this for a long time. Once you get good enough, Spirit and Nurse are the only options. The rest of the cast are just too weak. Bad spawns, insane tile rng, and second chance perks ######### anyone that aren't those two. Blight and Hag are top tier killers as well and Blight makes the odd appearance and Hag never shows up.
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@Lucent said:
All I ever see is BT, sprintburst, DH and Unbreakable. I mean mix it up. it isn't fun. 'oh look there they go again, running off.' them, 'waa killer tunneled'. well yeah, you unhooked then ran lol. of course i did. sheesh.
When Ruin Undying was the peak of it's popularity, no one switched to small game or detective's hunch.
When people complain about inefficient plays in solo que, and i tell them to run kindred, they refuse.
Survivor's want their second chance perks and when called on to adapt, will instead complain on the threads so the game adapts to them.
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@Edilibs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2281559#Comment_2281559
- Monstrous Shrine suggestion: This is a funny one because of: Self-Unhook difficulty is increased by 5/10/15 % when in fact you only have a 4% chance of unhooking yourself lol also Self-Unhook penalty is increased by 3/6/9 % but its not like the survivor are trying to attempt escapes with that 4% chance now penalized greater as it misses! I don't necessarily agree with your debuff to repair and healing speeds because theres already Dying Light, Sloppy Butcher, Thanatophobia etc but it definitely needs to be looked at.
- Unrelenting suggestion: I think this perk is fine the way it is. Its a perk for very beginners until they get adjusted to the game better.
- Any Means Necessary: There needs to be cooldown on this perk. A survivor should not be able to lift two thrown down pallets in a row.
- Gear Head: I agree with your perk buff suggestion for Gear Head
- Totems: I think Totems spawns are fine the way they are, they used to be in worse locations from the killers perspective
- On Hemorrhage: That would make Sloppy Butcher WAY too strong
Vigil You recover 10/15/20 % faster from the Blindness, Exhaustion, Haemorrhage, and Hindered Status Effects.
- This effect also applies to all other Survivors within 8 metres of you and lingers for 15 seconds
Buff: You recover 12/17/22% faster from Blindness, Exhaustion, Hemmorage and Hindered status effects
This effect also applies to all other survivors within 10 meters of you and lingers for 15 seconds is what i suggest
No Mither: I think its fine the way it is but why do you think this perk should be buffed?
I think for No Mither you should star the trial healthy, and then become broken upon taking damage
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@legacycolt said:
But then again there’s pale rose with literally 5 pallets..
They really need to fix the pallet rng. I can play on Midwich and have to go through 24 pallets and then play on Pale Rose and go through 5. It's not much fun to have chase someone as pig through pallet city or get ran down by a killer because there are 0 pallets around
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@Venzhas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2280391#Comment_2280391
But u know, killer mains, always whining, always needs more.. they might stop complaining the day they got survivors spawns in a game all hooked idk
I mean you and other survivor mains love to think that saying Nemesis is strong makes hims strong. Not the case. I think he is D tier, maybe a low C tier at best. You can say he has strong anti loop, but so does Doctor. No one has refuted my points, they just magnify Nemesis pros and magnify other killers cons if they even get past saying " Nemesis is low A tier saying he's not is a joke".
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@Unifall said:
Nemesis is definitely not A or B imo hes C or maybe even D tier. Theres alot of problems with his power 1 being the free sprint burst survivors get just to use your M2. His zombies are bad and they don't provide free tracking because by the time you reach the zombie they'll either reset or be stuck. His range is terrible in tier 2 and 3. Yes he can break pallets but thats about it. Billy, LF and oni can break pallets but they can still 1 shot you with their ability. Nemesis also is a a very tall killer so looping him isn't hard. He slows down on using his M2 so faking your power isn't worth it at pallets.
People are grossly exaggerating his anti loop ability (which you need to build up) and even more so they are shockingly exaggerating how impactful zombies are
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@PNgamer said:
yep D Tier confirmed....hes a way to weak and his power is pain in the ass
I just don't see how people are putting him high B, low A.
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@WexlerWendigo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2281491#Comment_2281491
Are you trying to be the reverse Sluzzy?
That honor already belongs to Lord Tony
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@Northener1907 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2281506#Comment_2281506
Maybe devs have to add ability for Nemesis, now he can call zombies into him. So in chases Nemesis can use this ability. And zombies can help him more.
What?! Didn't you know he is low A tier!?
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Monstrous shrine should give some permanent debuff to repair and healing speeds if you get basement hooked.
Unrelenting should work if you miss a survivor and hit a wall. It should also have two stacks of stbfl on it.
Amy means necessary should not have a cool down.
Gear head should also work on great skill checks.
Totem spawns need to be fixed or hexes need a weak lingering effect.
Hemorrhage should drain your healing progress if you aren't getting healed.
Vigil should make you recover from all debuffs a lot faster.
A lot of perks get held back by cooldowns for no reason.
No mither should start you healthy,and them break you upon taking damage.
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@Northener1907 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2281468#Comment_2281468
Zombies are most times useless. But once it was so fun:
I was chasing Feng, she was dead on hook. And i hit her with m1 before she jumped pallet. Zombie was behind wall and when she jumped pallet, zombie turned corner and hit Feng. And she down and dc'ed. Man, that made me so laugh.
They are funny as hell. When they wonder to just the right place at the right time its hilarious. Too bad that is inconsistent as hell and up to random chance. Most of the time my zombies are just going for a walk where no one is or stuck in some rocks.
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Plague can puke on someone, break them, and then down them with zero speed boosts.
Phead can hit multiple people with one attack. Which happens pretty frequently because of unhooks, and can hit through walls.
Huntress hatchets are map wide. You can injure and down someone across the map.
Dslinger shot is basically impossible to react to, provides free zoning, and applies deep wound.
The only thing Nemesis has on amy of these is that he can break pallets and breakable walls. (After you get it to rank 2 for some reason) All for the trade off of not only having to hit a survivor 3 times with 2 speed boosts, he also has the shortest range.
Nemesis sucks. His 3 hit nonsense should be the first thing to go.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2281433#Comment_2281433
Considering people are complaining zombies are free hits, they probably are running into zombies.
And the funny thing is that I've watched people run right pass my zombie and the zombie takes too long to attack them so they miss. So they aren't even reliable for hits either.
Im up to 77 games on him at this point. My zombies had a big impact in one game. They have gotten the odd hit here and there but more often then not they are tracking tools and nothing more. Who are these people that think zombies are amazing and what is happening in their games
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I really need to sit down and talk to these people putting Nemesis in A tier man.
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I'm glad people are getting it
"Wow he can hit over pallets, he's gotta be A tier for sure!"
Yep nothing like spending my early game and losing gens to give myself a decent anti looping power. Totally worth the trade off.
The fact that people even suggest him to be high B or low A is mind crushing. What do they think of other killers, how is he better, what are they seeing that i'm not, are they joking? How anyone rates him above people like Doctor or Phead makes me wonder what the hell is going on in their games. Does everyone just run into him to feed him his power, run into his zombies and then just drop pallets without thinking?
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Eruption is pretty good, it does require a bit of set up though
Also if you have a swf and they figure out you have it, they can call out if they are about to go down to have everyone let go of gens to avoid the incapacitated. I still think pop is better overall but eruption has potential, especially for 3 genning hags and trappers
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Wow it's almost like he sucks or something and everyone is grossly exaggerating how good he is
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@WexlerWendigo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2280721#Comment_2280721
He’s strong in most loops in the game, Billy and especially GF are not.
He's like a huntress at loops. Predict if they drop the pallet. Guess right you get the hit, wrong and they loop again. Only upside is once you hit tier 2 you can break the pallet, that is if they drop it. If they just do the normal loops your power doesn't do much. Especially when survivors can crouch and dodge pretty safely.
Billy has map wide pressure with his saw run, and if he catches you out in the open you're downed. If Nemesis catches you out in the open he gives you double speeds boosts for using his power.
GF of course is a bad looper. Nemesis is clearly a better looper. However GF has stealth to sneak up early and has the potenial to one hit and snowball if you build up the stalk correctly. Plus Nemesis at tier 1 is probably worse than GF at looping. At least you can crouch and use your power to get rid of red stain. It's not great, but it's something. Until he has tier two, Nemesis is just a basic m1 looper that can hit with his m2 to give the survivor a speed boost away while not injuring them. Great. He is also huge so mind games around a lot of tiles can't happen because the survivor can see you. GF is short and can be even shorter.
@NoOneKnowsNova said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2280788#Comment_2280788
Most Ghostfaces wont go for that stalk for three reasons (me included when I do play him).
Number one, Spinechill exists and is highly rated. Not every survivor uses it but its prevalent enough to not take the chance and instead walk sideways to the survivor, which leads me onto my second point, his cooldown.
Due to his high cooldown for his power if you dont land that sneaky first hit then you're in big trouble as you are now an M1 killer that needs two hits. And if you do get it back in chase, then you're after wasting so much time for that second hit.
Finally, like mentioned slightly above, he's an M1 killer. Even if you expose the survivor, you have very little to help you in the chase. And as long as that survivor is beside a good loop or two, you're unlikely to get that hit off unless they're poor at the game or you are using a 99 tactic which doesnt even work that well against great survivors.
A killer with a chase power will almost always be better than a killer with no chase power like GF.
I mean worst case scenario right there for GF. Yeah spine chill is a back breaker for him ill give you that, but you can still use your stealth at worst you get a free hit, maybe even a grab. But the upsides are so much higher to a GF than a Nemesis. You can 99 people to get everyone to one shot, or proc it on multiple people and if they catch them in a dead zone you can insta win the game. You may say that is unlikely and not gonna happen every game, but neither is a damn zombie blocking shack window for you.
Before he tier's up Nemesis has literally nothing going for him. His m2 gives survivor a speed boost to get away while not injuring, it does not break pallets, and he is so big that you can see him over short loops. If GF gets the expose on you, you can maybe get to a loop in time and stall until you're safe. Unlikely at best. If Nemesis get's the tentacle hit on you, you speed boost away, and he still isn't tier 2. Great.
Also i kinda get the chase argument, but not always. Hag is a set up killer and in everyone's top 5 basically. Legion is a chase killer and is bottom 5 for most people too. Anti loop is great, but look at the best killers in the game. Nurse, Spirit, Blight, Hag. What do they all have in common? High map control. Nurse can blink to get around fast, spirit can phase walk, hag sets up her web and can tele around, and blight moves fast too. Look at Freddy compared to clown. Clown has better anti loop than Freddy, his tonic slows when they touch it and his antidote speeds him up. Freddy can slow with snares only if they are asleep. But everyone rates Freddy better than Clown because of map control.
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@Karao_Ke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2280701#Comment_2280701
Leading them away and bugging them out takes like 5 seconds. you are grossly exaggerating how impactful they are when Nemesis ain't around.
I'm not exaggerating at all, it takes way more than 5 seconds to bait them out to an object because of how ridiculously slow they are, and there's no guarantee they're going to get bugged. They'll end up pestering you at the gen again. I've had it happen to myself more times than I can count, you're downplaying it way too much.
You also haven't said how Nemesis is better than Phead. You keep saying he is but not explaining how,I have said several times how Phead is better than Nemesis. Saying Nemesis is better than Phead does not mean he is.
Except.. I did? Read this again: "Nemesis can easily bait survivors into his tentacle and if they throw down pallets early, can get it out of the way at the same speed. Pyramid Head on the other hand is way different because an early pallet drop and shift+w means trouble as you've now just lost a massive amount of distance." If you still don't get it, it means Nemesis can get pallets out of the way by baiting compared to Pyramid Head who has a much larger CD for baiting as well as no pallet breaking included in his power. Shift+w is a lot stronger against Pyramid Head than it is Nemesis. I think the only thing that is better than Nemesis is his Punishment of the Damned.
Again you can't do much with the info. Yeah it is better than not having the info but there is a reason why most people don't use Barbecue and Chilli on Trapper and Hag because info on where people are is way less valuable when you can't do anything. If i see a zombie aggro onto someone across the map that doesn't help me that much because i can't walk my ass over there fast enough to do anything so while its better than not knowing it does not help much at all.
While I agree with this, info isn't always going to be across the map. It's heavily dependent on the survivors but if they vaccinate right next to you, you'd know. I say this is still useful no matter the situation because other killers simply do not have it, and if I know someone vaccinated near a gen, you best know I'm going to go check on that gen. It's better than nothing.
Shift w is more effective vs Nemesis than others because you have to triple hit through two speed boosts and if not you are just m1 killer with nothing to help. His tentacle strike is about the same as huntress Hatchet at a loop until the pallet is dropped than he is better but it is not some god tier anti loop power.
Once again, I partially agree but a good Nemesis baits his power just like Pyramid Head (which brings me back to my point from earlier) and most survivors wouldn't get away with a shift+w because of it, given he can break pallets with his power and be right back on the chase.
Yes, once you hit tier 3 you have it the whole match. The trade off is your tier 3 is comically weaker than the other twos. That is not a worthwhile trade off.
At the end of the day, everyone has their own opinions and while I personally think the trade-off is worthwhile, but you might not. Killers are subjective because it mainly relies on that persons playstyle which is why I can understand why people such as yourself think he's weak. But as I've said before, with a few minor buffs he can become top-tier, but that doesn't make him dirt-tier now. A lot of people in this thread seem to agree with that.
If you think zombies are a huge issue when you['re repairing a gen then i can't convince you otherwise. It is literally a small little loop and they are walking to the corner.
So the argument is that nemesis can get pallets out of the way quicker than Phead even though you need to tier up to 2 first. That is what makes him better. Pre dropping pallets is pretty effective vs everyone though. And once you see Nemesis is tier 2 you just don't pre drop and you're good. And no, shift w is better vs Nemesis. It takes me 3 tentacle hits and the other option is 2 m1's. He is the only killer whose power activly hurts him in a straight chase with no looping. You can argue that you can miss on Phead but you can miss on Nemesis too.
Yes, info you can't act on is better than no info, but it's so inconsquential most of the time that i barley factor it in terms of his power. It's like saying clowns yellow bottles a huge impact. I did mention they provide some map mobility but it's so little that no one takes it into account or even mentions it. The info is usually a non factor, good to have, but most of the time it does nothing.
This talk of people not getting away with shift w only works if 1. You have tiered up to tier two. 2. You have them already infected. He is super weak early (the time when killers need the most help) and if people use vaccines they are getting a free speed boost for you to have the opportunity to injure them later. Phead just injures them, not set up required.
We can disagree here but tier 3 for Nemesis, while permanent, does not hold a candle to the temporary tier 3 for Myers and Oni. The power differeance between those three tier 3's is comical
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@NoOneKnowsNova said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2280721#Comment_2280721
(Different person here) For starters, to me Billy is A tier, so better than Nemesis. As long as you don't over use your chainsaw then itll never overheat and with IF he can gain momentum in a game fairly quickly. Add Whispers, BBQ and Ruin and you've got a killer that can pressure extremely well. Even without those perks his chase ability alone when used right aswell as his map traversing is arguably the best in the game.
As for Ghostface, he's an M1 killer that's power only let's him get early suprise hits. Ghostface wastes too much time trying to stalk usually so ends up being a weaker Wraith in a sense. His power is almost useless during chase as his red stain being hidden can be done with any killer by turning around. Nemesis has a ranged attack that over time not only makes most loops hard too loop (as he's ranged and destroys pallets at T2) but also his attack is quick and more forgiving as a survivor can run into it after the release animation.
So yeah GF is gonna be weaker when people are looking out for him, but you don't how much he's stalked you. He could surprise insta down you at any time and you might know hes there because he's stealthed. Hiding his red stain in chase can be done by anyone but GF stealth gives him more mind game chances. I think at their worst GF is better, and at their best he is his still better.
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@WexlerWendigo said:
He’s B tier, to say he’s even close to the bottom tier is ridiculous
Saying something doesn't make it true. How is he any better than someone like Billy or GF?
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@Avignon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2280586#Comment_2280586
Sure again, the thing about PH is that vs a good survivor you kinda MUST shoot it throgh walls, as it's fairly easy to dodge within the survivors LOS. The only time your hitting on PH is either in animation lock or through walls. Also i feel his power slows you down more on a miss. Nem on the other hand is ... relatively speaking quite easy to land, on survivors actively trying to dodge it in the open. I think the projectile is even faster than DS's, on par with like a Victor Pounce.
And ye the hitting multiple survivors is a plus... a plus i feel comes up about as often as a zombie hitting a survivor.... What it's reaaaaally good at is closing out games on the last two survivors trying to save in front of you...
100% Nem's biggest weakness is the whole tripple M2 thing, personally i tend to just M1 survivors to get them off the gen and to a loop then M2 them within the loop itsself. Vaccines are a bummer but fairly limited. Between Corrupt, Lethal Pursuer, BBQ, Thrilling Tremors, Tinkerer, Discordance, Surveillance etc. you can burn through them quite quickly.
You can hit two people everytime there is an unhook or healing. That is wayy more consistent than zombies.
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@Karao_Ke said:
His map pressure being zombies is laughable. Have you seen the Ai on those things? it walks up to you, you do a loop around it, and bam it's not starring at the wall. At best they are a minor nuisance. And yes the zombies and vaccine are map info but since you have no mobility you can't do much with that info a lot of the time.
The zombies dominate in indoor maps because survivors don't have many places to run to. With that being said, I'm assuming you think they're useless in outdoor maps and while they aren't as promising, they can and will pester you off of a gen and there's nothing you can do about it other than trying to lead them away & bug them out on an object. I've noticed a lot of Nemesis players run Ruin because it's extremely useful as the gen you were on is regressing while you're trying to lead the zombie away.
Also how is he better than Phead? Because he can break loops with his power? Phead can hit multiple people through walls with a bigger hitbox.
Base Nemesis with Tier 1 is very weak compared to Pyramid Head, but as his power gets stronger throughout the match, he is definitely better than Pyramid Head, even if it's only by a smudge. Nemesis can easily bait survivors into his tentacle and if they throw down pallets early, can get it out of the way at the same speed. Pyramid Head on the other hand is way different because an early pallet drop and shift+w means trouble as you've now just lost a massive amount of distance.
his map info and map pressure are minimal at best and his map mobility is worthless.
Obviously his map mobility is worthless, he has none. As for the map info/and pressure, they are definitely useful. A survivor getting f*cked over by a zombie as well as being hit by killer instinct from a vaccine can be the difference between a free escape or not. Knowing a survivor is on a certain part of the map, especially if it's near a gen is valuable info as you'll know what they're doing and what they're probably going to do next. That's like saying the killer instinct from Victor is useless even though you can put him in some pretty jacked spots to keep track of the survivors.
Yes he is strong at loops after you have already hit the survivor and let them speed boost away.
Like I said, he needs a buff to where this doesn't happen.
But Oni injures survivor on a hit and they leave blood orbs that give him tracking. Myers is stealthed and has a way easier time earning his power because survivors again don't speed boost away. And what do those two get, they both get insta down attacks and can immediately end a game once they proc there power if it all lines up correctly.
Nemesis can track infected survivors by their coughing, which isn't a huge plus, but it's there give or take. Not as good as Plagues though. As for Myers, he's going to spend a very small amount of time in stealth unless he has addons specifically for that. Not to mention, a survivor going behind objects and cutting corners efficiently is his #1 counterplay, just like how playing safe & staying at jungle gyms is Oni's counterplay. Don't act like Nemesis's power is so easy to avoid if it's the same scenario for other killers as well. It's the same as the shift+w argument, most killers have that problem.
Nemesis needs to build up his power by letting survivors sprint burst away from him when he lands it to get the ability to break pallets with it (good) and then 1 extra meter (bad) on his m2. Oni and Myers are 1 shotting everyone with insane dash speed, faster vaults, and an extended lunge. Nemesis gets punished for stacking his power while those two don't and they have a better pay off too. How in any world is Nemesis in the same tier as Oni? A weak start, inconsistent zombies providing minimal map pressure, sometimes info that you're lucky if you can use it, and an occasional zombie blocking a loop for you, and pay offs that are barley worth it. Do you think Tier 3 Nemesis is anywhere near as good as Tier 3 Myers? Or a Demon Dashing Oni?
Do I think Nemesis is as good as a Demon Dashing Oni or a Tier 3 Myers? Hell no. But do you want to know the difference between the 3? While Myers and Oni have to build up their power just like Nemesis, their power is also limited throughout the entire match and has to be earned time and time again, compared to Nemesis when once he has it, he has it the whole game and doesn't have to repeat the repetitive process of having to do this and that just to get it back. That's what makes his power weaker but more efficient because not only is it easy to earn, but it's available the entire match once obtained.
Leading them away and bugging them out takes like 5 seconds. you are grossly exaggerating how impactful they are when Nemesis ain't around.
You also haven't said how Nemesis is better than Phead. You keep saying he is but not explaining how,I have said several times how Phead is better than Nemesis. Saying Nemesis is better than Phead does not mean he is.
Again you can't do much with the info. Yeah it is better than not having the info but there is a reason why most people don't use Barbecue and Chilli on Trapper and Hag because info on where people are is way less valuable when you can't do anything. If i see a zombie aggro onto someone across the map that doesn't help me that much because i can't walk my ass over there fast enough to do anything so while its better than not knowing it does not help much at all.
Shift w is more effective vs Nemesis than others because you have to triple hit through two speed boosts and if not you are just m1 killer with nothing to help. His tentacle strike is about the same as huntress Hatchet at a loop until the pallet is dropped than he is better but it is not some god tier anti loop power.
Yes, once you hit tier 3 you have it the whole match. The trade off is your tier 3 is comically weaker than the other twos. That is not a worthwhile trade off.
@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2280551#Comment_2280551
Doctor takes longer to down survivors than Nemesis, despite having less counterplay, and though he has better tracking Nemesis still has a decent bit from his zombies and supply crates, and he has better slowdown. Nemesis also tears through pallets and has a built-in 4 stacks of STBFL.
And it's a similar problem with Ghostface. He was a lot stronger in a previous meta, but now he's just got too much setup for very little reward. It takes him minutes to get into a powerful position at the start of the trial, and then all of his setup is completely removed in one minor snowball. Instadown perks definitely mitigate this, but at the end of the day survivors can and will outplay or outperk you, even just by holding W like agaisnt Nemesis.
Edit: And once again, it's a similar problem with Freddy. Good survivors predrop every pallet amd all the slowdown in the world cannot overcome that. Having mobility is nice, sure, but now that his power requires more effort and survivor shave gotten that much more efficient his old, mindless playstyle just doesn't cut it
What do you mean Doctor is one of the best anti loopers in the game. Shocking prevents vaults and pallet drops. Nemesis has to hit 3 times to down through 2 speed boosts, if not he is just a m1 killer. GF has stealth and 1 shot. Nemesis has a decent anti loop you need to build up and inconsistent zombies. I think GF takes it over him. Not as weak early and at their strongest GF one shots everyone and Nemesis still needs to 3 hit people
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@BronzeHandModel said:
Maybe its just me, but when i play Nemesis i get destroyed most of the time. When See otz playing, he easy Kills much better survs then i was facing. I think he is just not my type of Killer. I cannot say what tier Killer he is. I hope that i get used to him some day.
I mean Otz is what, devotion 26 or something. He has thousands of hours in the game and most of that is on killer. He can do well because he has really strong basic mechanics for killer. That does not make Nemesis good. A good player doing well on him does not mean he is good. Otz can do well on everyone, because he is a good killer player. Nemesis is not the one getting the 4k, Otz is.
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@FeminineSlime said:
I thought about this before, and I came to the thought that maybe during Frenzy, for each survivor past the first one you hit, a member of the rest of the Legion shows up and will exist in the map for a short amount of time. I had the thought that maybe they spawn and run to the nearest gen to kick it, and if a survivor is nearby they will run to them to try and attack, but otherwise, they will kick the gen and then leave again. Which would give Legion a bit more bang for their buck and solidify them as a macro-level game control killer rather than an individual chase killer.
This might be overpowered of course and would need to be really explored if it was going to be added, I just think it would be fun, and reward those really crazy tears across the map.
Legion is pretty bad so a large buff isnt insane. I just want the other 3 members being in-cooperated in some way.
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@Avignon said:
i mean i dono if i'd put him A or B tier but bottom 5? neah.
For one you're overselling how good holding W is, something that works against... 20ish killer on the roster?
Also something about the zombies i've noticed is that YES they land hits fairly rarely, but i've gotten alot of value out of zombies from suvivors just realizing one is somewhere around / within the LT wall / Jungle Gym and just leaving the loop... allowing me to get a hit in the open on the way to the next tile
Also the zombie were buffed form beta and provide more mutation, and there are also addons for getting extra mutation of them.
Overall yeah, i'd put him around PH level, weaker, sligthly, different really. PH can hit through walls, but i feel his power is way harder to controll since you're locked into only being able to move with W, also there's a reactable delay on PH's wave, tentacles are much faster. PH counters hook perks, sometimes but zombies provide some info / map pressure. But if you put PH around the top of A tier i'd put Nem bottom of A tier / high B.
And if that stupid backasswards hindered speed boost (u wut mate?) on infection get's removed... ow boy
Plus he's honestly just awsome visually i feel, his run, kick, carry, break and hook animations are all unique. Gives him some personallity compared to the rest of the roster i feel. Maybe bhvr would look into giving other killers some unique animations , like nurse could just ... telekinetically carry you around or something
Aesthetics, music, all that is great. The reason holding W is so effective vs him is because you need to triple hit with your power and give them a double speed boost. If not you are just a m1 killer at 115 who can't mind game because you're so large. Everyone else that is a chasing killer has something. Even Legion downs faster because they get a free first hit and then catch back up. Nemesis is literally just M1 man because your power punishes you for using it.
Also yeah Phead is clunky and takes some getting used to, but once you do how is Nemesis even comparable. Nemesis is less clunky, can hit over pallets, and can break pallets after he already has built up his infection which gives speed boosts to survivors. Phead is clunky but you can get used to him, can hit through pallets, through walls, and can hit multiple people from further away. In what world Is Nemesis being considered near Phead's level of power?
Also the zombies can be great or worthless. Inconsistency at it's best. I don't think it's asking too much to have my power actually work in each game.
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@MadLordJack said:
Nemesis is better than Legion, Ghostface, Myers, Trapper, Pig, Clown, Trickster and even Doctor and Freddy. He's a short-range Deathslinger that doesn't have to reel in for hits, breaks pallets quick, and has 4 stacks of STBFL built into his power.
Could he be better if the removed the speed boost? Absolutely, but he's by no means weak now. He's the most B-tier killer I think I've ever played.
Okay so how is he better than Doctor, Freddy, GF, or the two i expanded upon in my post. You can say he is but you need to explain why.
@Karao_Ke said:
Nemesis definitely isn't D tier and placing him next to Trickster & Legion is just distasteful. I'd say he deserves to be B tier and with a few minor buffs, can easily by A tier given he's just a weaker version of Pyramid Head/and Plague combined.
With that being said, his kit pretty much covers most of the basics. He has chase ability (including zombies), map information (zombies & vaccines) as well as map pressure (zombies pushing you off of gens, etc). The only thing he doesn't have is map mobility. Give or take, a lot of killers lack more dynamic to their power and just have 1 aspect of it whereas Nemesis has more, just like Freddy.
You say holding shift+w is the ultimate counter to Nemesis, well I say more than half of the killer roster has the same exact problem. This isn't exclusive to Nemesis as running away from a loop completely negates Doctor, Clown, Pyramid Head, etc.
Now if we were to compare killers, I could say once survivors are infected & you're tiered up (doesn't take too long), he's better than Pyramid Head as he can both break pallets with his power and bait his attack a lot more efficiently. Doesn't this remind you of someone? It should remind you of Oni/Myers, because as you tier up/gain your power through the match, you get stronger. Gotta earn it.
But what if we were to take a look at his downfalls.. I could say Plague is way better than Nemesis since Nemesis's infection does nothing other than allow survivors to be injured; something that should've been available from the first place, compared to Plague's which either forces you to stay injured & loud the entire match or cleanse, risking a use of her Vile Purge that can hit you from far away. Not to mention, his infection gives you a Sprint Burst away, Plague's doesn't.
Main point is, Nemesis is a good killer with a power that just needs to be tweaked a little bit. Make his "infection" more threatening, his "tier 3" have more to it, and stop giving survivors a Sprint Burst away just because they get infected. If the devs go through with these 3 minor buffs, he'd be a high-tier killer. But just because he has problems from the get-go doesn't make him weak, as a lot of other killers don't have nearly the same amount of diversity in their power.
P.S. I've played a lot of matches against Nemesis and I cannot tell you how many times I've been forced off of a gen because of his zombies. Good Nemesis players also like to push survivors towards his zombies, so you best bet I got injured a few times by them. They thrive in indoor maps, but even in outdoor, they aren't as useless as you think.
His map pressure being zombies is laughable. Have you seen the Ai on those things? it walks up to you, you do a loop around it, and bam it's not starring at the wall. At best they are a minor nuisance. And yes the zombies and vaccine are map info but since you have no mobility you can't do much with that info a lot of the time.
Also how is he better than Phead? Because he can break loops with his power? Phead can hit multiple people through walls with a bigger hitbox. Demo can also break pallets with shred and has actual mobility with his portals. LF saws through them too.
Saying he is A tier is putting him with likes of Oni. Nemesis is an anti loop killer, his map info and map pressure are minimal at best and his map mobility is worthless. Yes he is strong at loops after you have already hit the survivor and let them speed boost away.
And yes Oni and Myers need to build up there powers too like Nemesis. But Oni injures survivor on a hit and they leave blood orbs that give him tracking. Myers is stealthed and has a way easier time earning his power because survivors again don't speed boost away. And what do those two get, they both get insta down attacks and can immediately end a game once they proc there power if it all lines up correctly.
Nemesis needs to build up his power by letting survivors sprint burst away from him when he lands it to get the ability to break pallets with it (good) and then 1 extra meter (bad) on his m2. Oni and Myers are 1 shotting everyone with insane dash speed, faster vaults, and an extended lunge. Nemesis gets punished for stacking his power while those two don't and they have a better pay off too. How in any world is Nemesis in the same tier as Oni? A weak start, inconsistent zombies providing minimal map pressure, sometimes info that you're lucky if you can use it, and an occasional zombie blocking a loop for you, and pay offs that are barley worth it. Do you think Tier 3 Nemesis is anywhere near as good as Tier 3 Myers? Or a Demon Dashing Oni?
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@Slickstyles said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/258362/nemesis-is-a-d-tier-bottom-5-killer
I mean... Otz also has a 25 win streak on Nemesis on the second day of playing him, something he struggled to do with many other killers. What does he have for him? A power that forces you into binary decisions (damned if you do, damned if don't), if play properly. On certain loops, survivors just go down to his power. If a survivor drops a pallet, the tentacle will prioritize the survivor which is great unlike Blight's power.
He has a lingering hitbox on his power that many do not know of nor do they take advantage of. His zombies occasionally pushes survivors off of objectives, facecamps survivors, or wombo combo's survivors on loops. They also sometimes give info on where survivors are.
I've played my fair share of Nemesis as well and I certainly think he's better than Trickster, Legion, Myers, Clown, and Pig. I'd put him in lower B tier with Demo. I feel like he's underrated like Demo and requires to some time to be decent at before you can appreciate him. Any killer that can shut down loops and break pallets is already out of C tier.
Like many others, I feel like his first infection should not give survivors a speed boost. This would greatly help his early game.
Low b is also putting him ahead of a lot more than the people you named. Also a 25 win streak doesnt mean anything. Otz also got a 50k on Trapper with 3 perks and 1 addon. Does that mean Trapper is op? No of course not.
Again his zombies are super inconsistent at best. I have had full games where they don't do anything. At best case scenario they shut down a loop if someone is already infected. Trapper traps also shut down loops, but you don't need to infect someone and give them a speed boost while also having no control on whether or not that part of your power actually wants to cooperate.
@LordRegal said:
I’ve played a lot of PHead and I’ve been grinding the Nemesis achievement, and I have to say I think Nemesis’ tentacle beats a no add on PHead shockwave in most scenarios once Nemesis is T2. It’s shorter range but comes out faster, doesn’t hurt your turning as you aim like Phead’s, you can flick at the moment you release while PHead locks in place, and if you miss the survivor you break the pallet to let you keep chasing as opposed to recovering, breaking the pallet, and only then being able to move on. PHead only wins in needing 2 consistently to down rather than potentially 3, and being able to hit through walls which while powerful, is situational.
the one thing I think people underestimate is Nemesis’ power prioritizes the hit over the pallet. I don’t think any other power that can interact with both does this. Chainsaws, shred…if it’s a toss up which it hits, the pallet is always chosen. Nemesis can chase someone, let them throw the pallet down, and act like a huntress to down them as they throw it. No other pallet breaking power does that and it turns it into a win win for him - he either takes the health state or infection, or if he misses slightly or waits too long and they dead hard, he still gets the pallet for free. I’ve seen so many people not realize he doesn’t prioritize pallets and go down very unintelligently as a result, giving me opportunities huntress would love to get.
Phead also has the cages to prevent hook perks on survivor, the trails for tracking, and his ranged attack while more clunky has a way bigger range, is wider, does not need to hit someone first before it becomes lethal, and can hit multiple people. Yes Nemesis can get you into a damned if you damned if you don't position but the amount of time it takes to get someone there is so bad. Plus once people figure out the pallet stuff his tentacle is just going to be a huntress hatchet loop mind game. It just makes playing around dropped pallets more dangerous because at least you hit the pallet if you miss.
@nickofford said:
You should never be infecting a survivor out in the open , always do it at pallet loop with the survivor on the outer trqck of the loop , even with the speed boost they become in range of your next ten-tickle strike very quickly
Finding a survivor in the open and i get punished for using my power. Great design there.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Depends. Certain killers/builds, I totally understand. Other times I get a little tilted because the game was a free win if they had just stayed in.
Either way, I just want the game to end as a soon as possible in whatever fashion. I don't care about points, pips, etc. Only escapes or not. And if it's clear that the game is a lost cause, I just want to go next and not waste my time.
I hate that ######### man. If survivors bring decked out med kits and tool boxes should the killer just dc as well?
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This is what i mean! everyone is talking about he is low A, high B, super balanced.
Yet no one has answered my question on who he is better than other than the 4 i mentioned.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Nemesis is better than the majority of the killer roster, firmly A-tier competing with the likes of Huntress and Deathslinger. Many of my matches against him today have ended with him receiving an effortless 4K on a silver platter. He is VERY strong in chase, with much anti-loop potential and a power that makes pallets and windows unsafe. There are too few vaccines on the map, he acquires his power too fast for my liking. His zombies apply map pressure for him, cut off loops and pathways that would otherwise be lifelines for survivors. Too many times have I been injured or downed by zombies, they are quite strong for the Nemesis.
All you did was explain some of his upsides (really over selling the zombies) and ignore his tremendous downsides. How is he any better than Doctor for example? How is better than P Head? How about LF? Or Plague? He is no better at anti loop than Clown, Huntress, Dslinger, P Head unless he get's very lucky with 1 of 2 zombies.
@Nameless said:
Imo his zombies are fine. A couple of times the AI decides to wander off into zones where they're really useless so maybe that's something that could be improved. His power though isn't that bad. The common complaint is the sprint burst you get when Nemesis hits you with his power, and I agree it's not really necessary. His tier 3 needs something extra too I think because 1 extra meter with your whip is really nothing.
It's just so inconsistent. My first 53 games my zombies infected someone like, 6 times? And they downed/injured someone 2 times. that being said i just had a match where they did work. But out of 54 matches my zombies popped off and got me 3 injures and 2 downs by shutting down loops at the right time in 1 game. Also the infection rate you get from zombies in so bad it's not worth trying to use them to get your power.
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@oliviaa said:
if ur going to comment on how a killer is 'SEVERELY lacking' but can't be bothered to even say what should be changed then i literally don't understand what ur point of this post was... the only killers with decent map pressure are spirit, nurse, and arguably billy... not every killer they are going to release is going to have some insane power that is able to teleport across the map and stop a gen from popping.
if u think a killer needs to be reworked bc they lack 'gen pressure' then u either need to be usng better perks or stop tunnelng and pressure survivors off gens
Nurse, spirit, oni, blight, freddy, demo, billy, huntress, hag all have good map control. Missed a few there
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@HarleyQuin_n2K16 said:
instead of AI maybe legion could go in a locker and trap it with another member if a survivor goes too near the locker then a member of the legion not in control would grab them pulling them into the locker and injuring them then throwing them out. In this scenario legion can change forms by going into lockers.
Just some way to incorporate the other 3 members. The Ai zombies open a lot of possiblities and while i appreciate the uniqueness of Nemesis having the zombies, Huntress had locker reload and no one complained when Trickster also got it.
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@whycantIwin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2279934#Comment_2279934
you stated facts but I really don't think doc is low, I don'T enjoy him too much personally but he has the best tracking in the game and you can do many types of builds with him, and he can also deny some loops when using his power at the right time.
Oh i don't mean doc is low tier. I put him as mid tier, around where LF and Demo are. I'm just using him as a good bench mark. Doc isn't bad but he is better than Nemesis so i don't see how Nemesis is good at all.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Nemesis is great.
Ranged ability.
Easy tracking (contamination)
Moving hazards that can catch survivors in compromising positions (Zombies).
What’s missing here?!
Well any sort of map control
Having to hit survivor's 3 times with abilities through two speed boosts as opposed to plague and her 0 speed boosts.
Having to build up your ability so being weak early like Oni and Michael. Yet those two have much bigger pay offs
Zombies being rng. not consistently getting them to shut down loops and them being a mild nuisance at best when Nemesis isn't around and being worthless on large maps.
He ain't the worst killer but he isn't even close to people like Doc/Plague/LF
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@nutmilk420 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2279754#Comment_2279754
Ok fine you got me there with Trickster. I think the community just needs to decide if they want the game competitive or not, bc ya I guess ur right there is a difference when your going all out at sweaty rank 1. but alot of us just play for fun and in the grand scheme of things matches have such a random skill gaps i don't find the killers strength differences too noticeable. P.s id never play a dbd turrny it just sounds frustrating to make a RNG based game competitive.
I mean a lot of it is rng and if you just play causally that's okay.
But when you take a look at Nemesis and then look at other killers like Plague or Doctor, he feels pretty outclassed by them and they aren't even the top in terms of strength
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@Karao_Ke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2279811#Comment_2279811
I agree, however, I've been pushed off gens countless times because of a zombie deciding to pester me.
@BingBongMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2279807#Comment_2279807
His map pressure is kind of meh. The zombies are more of a nuisance than a danger when Nemesis isn't nearby.
The zombies are funny but that's it. If one does stumble to a tile you're running that's really good but you can't control that. And like you said they can be annoying if you are on a gen but that's really all they are when Nemesis isn't around. Mildly annoying.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2279659#Comment_2279659
Then why release stats at all? If they do not want people misinterpreting the stats, why show them at all.
Because they released stats, people shows they couldn't handle it. They tried again and released more and still people couldn't handle it. Third time they tried people still couldn't handle it so they gave up.
Also can they give an example of how people would misread the stats?
They released stats for survivors sacrificed vs escaped in trials where an Archive Challenge was complete. The community mistook these for total sacrifices/escapes of all time, despite being clearly labeled otherwise, and a "Killers Are OP" campaign began.
I guess. Just feels bad. I'd rather have the stats and have some people misread them then be in the dark
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@nutmilk420 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2279721#Comment_2279721
Its all perspective really. Like I can play Legion better then bubba any given day but thats bc I like to spread out the damage and not stay focused on 1v1s and gives use to different perks. Non are bad in my opinion it just comes down to play style. A fps player may have amazig luck with death slinger while someone not so good at aming may rant about how he's terrible.
To an extent, but there's a reason you only see nurse and spirit at tourney. If you take the best player for every killer and see their results, they won't be the same. There are bad killers, you can think they aren't and that's fine. But there is a difference in power from Nurse to Trickster.
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It's still heavily survivor sided.
It used to be worse don't get me wrong. But it still really survivor sided.
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@Huff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2279659#Comment_2279659
op.gg existing is one thing. I don't think that's Riot giving stats out themselves though, that's some people running a website unrelated to Riot. Unless op.gg is affiliated with Riot and I was just unaware of that. It's like the same reason leak accounts exist, like leaks by daylight.
There actually is a similar site for DbD, althought the URL/name escapes me at this moment, but you can literally look up users by their steam profile and looks up specific stats like how many games they've played, how many were a 4k, how many traps they've set as trapper, how many times they've escape through the gate, how many times they've escaped through hatch, how many times they've done either of those things while crawling, etc. People can go and dig this info up if they want, but I can't think of a lot of companies that are handing out all their stats themselves.
I'm aware of that site but i'm not looking for player specific stats. I don't want to see how many traps you have placed down as trapper or how many i have. I want to see the average kill, pick, and hook rate for Trapper and how much dcs and suicide on hook impact those stats
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@nutmilk420 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2279597#Comment_2279597
Legion and trapper are not bad lmao they just require pepole to think outside the box and mabye use some diffrent perks. Id struggle with Legion too if I kept useing perk builds desind for spirit on him.
Alright then, who are the weakest 3 killers in the game?
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@SleepyWillo said:
Think this only happens on nemesis and is likely a bug.
Infecting people with tentacle strike awards objective points, the ones survivor get for doing gens. Damaging them gives deviousness. Nemesis gets points from 5 categories
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@Huff said:
They've made it clear that the reason they're so stingy with stats is because they don't want to give people any ammunition to misinterpret things. Funny you bring up League as an example, because Riot was the same way as long as I played (I gave up other than playing very casually) a few years ago. Maybe they've changed since then, but I think it's understandable that they don't want to cause an uproar by people misinterpreting stats that they don't understand.
Then why release stats at all? If they do not want people misinterpreting the stats, why show them at all.
Also can they give an example of how people would misread the stats?
Just google "op.gg" and you can look at pick/win rates across region and rank. What builds are most popular and their win rates. It's great.
I just think they don't want to share the stats as it would put some of their nerfs/buffs into question. The best example being what they did to Billy.
@SleepyWillo said:
When they do give stats people tend to pick and choose which stats best suit their narrative and discount any stats that don't support their opinion as deliberate manipulation.
Unfortunately, I can't argue with them. It happens. A lot.
I still think we should have easy access to these stats though...
Yeah but then they can get called out on that. If we have all the stats, and people willingly ignore some, then other people can call it out.
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Survivor's classify weak killers as "balanced" and don't understand why red ranks become the spirit show.
Nemesis is not high B or low A. There are more killers stronger than him than there are weaker.
He is not down in the dumps with trickster, trapper, legion and the boys.
But he also isn't anywhere as good Plague, Huntress, Oni
He's around GF level imo.
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Kinda a weird target. Wraith has been pretty bad for a long time, finally gets some love so now we need to pick at his add ons?
I think it's fine. It just gives you info is all, doesn't make chasing any easier, doesn't mean you get a free hit on the, just tell you where they are.
Plus there are way stronger info add ons. Black incense literally gives map wide info constantly but no one complains about it. The cigar box on clown as mentioned before.
Wraith finally gets some time in the sun, leave him, it's a purple add on that gives info, it isn't game breaking
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@HP150 said:
Hear me out; nearly every killer that's playing "serious" will have a gen slowdown perk. Just like how nearly every "serious" survivor will have an Exhaustion perk. In the past, Devs said that the reason why so many of the gen slowdown perks were weak was because of the possibility of stacking multiple ones.
Why not add an Exhaustion-like status affect (shared cooldown) to Slowdown perks to deter stacking them, then buff the really crappy slowdown perks to be on par with Ruin, Pop, etc?
Unironically one of the best ideas on this forum