FeminineSlime
FeminineSlime
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I agree with pretty much everything you've said here. I think particularly the fact that survivors have to learn and be prepared for every single killer, all of their potential addons, know what to do to counter various strategies (counters that can be modified by the specific killer, too, such as unhooking against insta-down killers or ranged killers), and it really is becoming a bit impossible, unless you are the type of person to play all the time.
One of the bigger issues with this overwhelm, I think, is the inability for survivors to practice against specific killers. Imagine you're a new player and you've played a couple hundred hours, but in that time you've still never seen rarer killers with complicated powers that require power specific counterplay, like Pinhead, Twins, or Hag. You're just going to get hurt or punished, and possibly even killed before you have an opportunity to actually understand what's going on. There are little loading screen blurbs for the first three or so matches a survivor has against a specific killer, but those are woefully insufficient. All of this is alleviated, of course, if you watch a zillion guides online, or simply play a lot when a new killer is released so you have the chance to practice against that specific killer, but once that release window is gone, the ability to have in-game learning experiences against older killers is sparing. And, since winning and losing is such a razor's edge in terms of balance in many cases, a team having even just one new survivor who dies quick to Dracula or Spirit or whoever leads to a worse match for everyone but the killer who gets a freebie. Naturally, there is fresh MMR for the newest players, but how many new MMR killers are playing every single killer? Not many, I imagine.As far as making survivor more dynamic, I actually think they should make it so every survivor has a single brown, no addon item in hand every match, without having to spend bloodpoints. Killers don't spend BP to use their powers, so what if survivors didn't have to, either? Doing it this way means they can design around these base "powers", introduce new ones for survivors, and balance the learning required out for killers, too. This would be a substantial rework, though, so it'd be a big ask for the devs to consider something like this. As it stands, though, most of my matches survivors either bring no items, or med-kits and flash lights, as those are the only two items that meaningfully change the "rules" of the match (if survivors have flashlights, for example, killers have to be careful when picking up, just like a ranged killer makes survivors more careful around vaults and pallets). If more items changed the rules of play like killer powers did, then I think things would be more balanced in that regard.
Of course, doing that introduces this overwhelm to killer, too, but it would at least balance out the amount of learning both sides have to do, and maybe that's good? Whatever the ultimate solution, I think you're right OP in that this problem is going to get worse if nothing is done for it. -
I have only recently come back for the event and yeah. I am pretty good at stealth overall which I know is a sin in this community, but just today I've had five matches of about fifteen that ended with one survivor on the ground and the killer trying and failing to find me for four minutes. It's got to the point now that I just let myself die to spare the other survivor but it's really not fun to have to give up when I could otherwise win just for the sake of not aggravating someone on the ground. Slugging for the bore-k was already a meme so why have we incentivized it?
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@allMadhere said:
@TheProphetsHarbinger Oh I've absolutely taken breaks over the years from this game, when I wasn't having fun or when something else was wrong - I think that's fair. Sorry you aren't having fun (sincerely). BHVR is always updating, and always changing things. The game will never be static. I guess I just don't see much point in all of these posts going 'they really need to change things around here' when it's like... but they are... consistently, always. Dead by Daylight has always been in a state of constant change and adjustment (to the point where I think at times their attempts to appease the mob have actually made things worse).
Your OP said "What can be done about the state of things, if people believe there needs to be something done to begin with?" Sure, fair enough. I just see a lot of people complaining without actually having a clear idea of what would make the (correct / effective) difference for them and their experience.
DbD will never be equal, it's a 4 v 1 game. Even if it were as close to balanced as is possible, people would still complain.
That is a fair thing to say, "Even if things were balanced, people would complain," but that doesn't mean that all complaints are invalid either, and people have a right to be frustrated with their experience. Just because there will always be imbalance doesn't mean we should just passively accept the state of the game when it is genuinely unfun in certain ways. OP isn't even really saying that survivor needs to be buffed, just made more enjoyable to actually play. Any time someone expresses having a bad time there are 14 people waiting in the wings to tell them they're stupid for complaining at all.
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I feel the same way on the other side. I run Lightweight, Self-Aware, Windows, and Kindred, hardly meta but I like how it feels. It just doesn't feel fun to be screwed by try-hard types because I didn't come to play the same hardcore sweatgame they wanted to. Like oh? The killer is camping and we didn't happen to bring the right perks to counter? Oh well. I think its a problem for both sides. Play nice and the other side assumed you were going to be evil and brought all the best #########. Just an issue with how the game is balanced around perks.
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@EternalSinOfCain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3182514#Comment_3182514
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6BDE5H9DZ1B1/screenshot-28213-29.png
Yup.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7RGWF7KOOIMW/screenshot-28220-29.png
Never happens.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GAJD28IY3D7D/screenshot-28230-29.png
Nobody wants to play Survivor.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/H8P8XR656AVG/screenshot-28218-29.png
Killers never have the BP bonus ever.
I didn't say killer never did, my man. Just that I never do. No need to be so hostile about it. I'd love to play killer without massive queue times personally but it's always the other way around for me. Probably some quirk of the levels of our respective MMRs/time of day.
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Yeah, I think that it's just out of whack at the moment. At the highest of the high, survivors are still very strong, but to get there requires extreme levels of coordination and skill which the vast majority of players don't have. Meanwhile, even middling killers can perform really well with the ease of camping and tunneling. There's just an imbalance there. People might argue it's balance and fun and fair, but since it was re-enabled I haven't ever had anything but the +100% BP bonus for survivor. Nobody wants to play the role because it's :) not fun :).
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Same experience, friend, so you're not alone. I keep trying to play once a week or so just to see if it's gotten any better but it really hasn't. Too much changed at once for me to really say one way or another what made the game worse, but something really did just break with this update and ruined the balance of the experience for me.
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Don't really like it anymore, primarily a survivor player but I play both frequently enough. The "good games" are pretty boring with no room left for fun plays or risk, and the bad games are god awful. (And before The Usuals get up in arms, the only nerfed perk I ever used before was Spine Chill, so I'm not missing my crutch or whatever.) Even Killer is pretty boring for me now, too. I already would get 3-4ks most of the time on Legion, even before the rework, and now it just feels like there's no thrill or challenge or anything. Just like yeah. The survivor died. They do that a lot now. Friend of mine's been doing a meme of playing all the killers with only clown's perks and no power usage while he's been disabled and has 4k'd every time. The game just feels too much like a foregone conclusion at this point to be fun on either side.
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I'll second this feeling. For me the games bounce between boring because the killer sweats their brains out at five gens and there's nothing to really do about it, or games where the killer gets like one kill but it's just so unfun and boring because everyone just sat on gens. I feel like even in games where everyone is playing fair it's extra boring because everyone is just playing so much more efficiently because now mistakes are punished so much harder and going for risky, and thus fun, plays just isn't worth it because the potential reward is just not worth the damage it can cause. Most games I escape now feel pretty hollow because it's just doing four gens against a killer that doesn't know what they're doing and then leaving. Nothing feels like it came from my skill or other survivors'. They nerfed survivor's tools and now it feels like the best way to win is to just minimize interaction and that's boring.
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@jesterkind said:
I've always got some feelings of Gender:tm: from Jake, could be nonbinary after spending a long time in the woods figuring some stuff out. Hey/They icon.
You know what, ur right. He/They icon.
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There are a few but there's no killer that makes me regret playing more than Ghostface lol; mechanics that barely work half the time, annoying gimmicks, and for some reason a huuuuuge number of ghostface players just love playing in very scummy ways + flame in the endgame. The "jumpscare" playstyle isn't really fun for me and the chases are just m1 same as anything so there's nothing exciting there either. I usually win against him no problem it's just an excruciating experience.
As for perks, Lightborn :). lmao jk for real I don't think any weak perks are all that bothersome. Maybe Dying Light, just because direct slowdown makes doing gens very tedious.
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It is just strange because basing it all on survival leads to the imbalance everyone complains about. Basing it on purely kills for the killer is a better metric somewhat but even that doesn't differentiate camping one person from the first hook to death from winning three separate chases. It weirdly puts the very good, 5-Gen chase, very in-your-face survivors (the kind that make killers actually angry) at lower ranks than they really should be, against killers who are not good enough to face them regularly, which just amps up frustration for that mid-tier of MMR. Of course, the REALLY good survivors who can do all that and survive are still way up at the top, but those folks aren't really the t-bag, click-click gamers.
In some ways, it is still better than the rank-based matchmaking but the system really does need more to go off of than survival/kills.
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For a female survivor: I'd like any older woman. Like. Just anyone over 40 lol. Maybe an older writer who stumbled upon books about the entity while researching a horror novel who was drawn into the world as a means of escaping from her dead-end life. Would love something like that, especially if she had an older sort of style, maybe a more subdued 90s academic style. Perks could be all about research and creativity, like maybe she could set zones of the map that, if the killer steps into them, the team can read their aura. Or a perk like flashbang where after a certain amount of gen progress, she can create a random item with her creativity in a locker. Would be very neat!
For a male survivor: I know it would never happen but c'mon guys let's just add Clive Barker to the game as a survivor. Bonus points if it's current old man Clive Barker.
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I am still gonna play Kate with certain faces that kinda cover up what they did, but I have definitely been leveling other survivors again. Amusingly, I'm also playing a lot of Nea like you, OP. It's a real bummer what they did but I guess now I get to play more fashion with more people and feel depressed every time I log in and see Kate at the campfire.
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The other night my boyfriend had an internet issue and lagged for a few moments during a match, and the Blight we were against was so cocky in endgame chat like, "Heh, even your lag switch couldn't beat me. I should report you." The sheer confidence and paranoia on display were amusing. Someone introduce him to Occam's razor, please.
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I agree with OP; most boring are killers that don't feel interactive in chase. Trap killers, spirit/nurse types, extreme hit and run stealth boys, etc. The main fun in this game is the chase and the looping, take that away and it's just skill check sim whether on gen or on the hook. Also, any killer that slugs for 4K but isn't good enough to actually find the fourth survivor quickly. Just let me leaaaave.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2388189#Comment_2388189
Then why argue? What does it matter to you if I want compensation or at least SOMETHING to confirm they know how we feel thats literally all I want. Idc if I get my money back but I at least want them to actually acknowledge how we feel on the topic.
This I think is my main feeling on the topic. There have been literal months of negative feedback on this but it feels like they haven't even remotely acknowledged it and that just kind of reeks.
Edit: You replied to another post of mine so I'll just edit a response to that in here. I did notice some small changes to the model, and the idle animation lets her close her mouth for a second but. They've got a few more iterations to go through before it's good. They also changed certain hair models for??? No reason. Like the Updo Bow hair from the rockabilly set, the back is just awful now.
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It's pretty wild how they went ahead with Kate as she is when that was one of the most universal pieces of feedback on these forums I've ever seen. There were numerous topics about it and almost every single topic about the reworks mentioned how awful she was. I guess we ought to be happy that her in game animations aren't as demonic as they were on PTB at least but yeesh.
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Yeah it's a real bummer. They even changed certain things about skins that I liked. For instance Kate's "Grand Bow Updo" skin from the rockabilly stuff originally had rolled hair in the back and now it's just choppy and not at all the original hairstyle. Many of the beards for various male survivors got changed and look really strange now, especially on Jeff and Ace, I've noticed.
Some of the changes are good, but man a lot of them sure aren't.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2387113#Comment_2387113
The gallows gen finished and we were repairing on the wrong sides D:
😔😔😔😔😔😔😔
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Yeah feels like they barely did anything about her. Very sad. Been playing like a noose was around my neck for weeks now and the wood just dropped out from underneath lol. I'm still holding out hope they'll make some adjustments but... F.
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I think that's just how the map RNG works sometimes. Last night I played 15 games, got Dead Dawg Saloon in 8 of them.
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2382475#Comment_2382475
You encourage chases by ENCOURAGING them, not punishing the Killer.
And Survivors were far enough away that the Killer is giving up an unhook to start a 3 minute chase that he would probably have to leave to pressure gens, not counting the myriad of second-chance perks that are meta these days.
The Killer has a right to secure his kill as killing is his objective.
His objective is not asking the Survivors if they played enough, or had enough fun. He's not part of a questionnaire where Survivors are asked 'was the Killer mean?'.
His objective removes Survivors from the game. All these punishment ideas are based on the same erroneous thinking; that the Killer should not be allowed to kill them until they have had <x> fun.
'I did not get to play!' Yes you did; you got to try to Kobe, and you had the Struggle Mechanic. This warcry of Survivor mains actually means 'I did not get to complete gens & escape'. They considering being hooked 'Not playing' in the same way they say 'NoED rewards losing' because they think popping 5 gens is 'winning'.
Give hooked Survivors 'Distraction' points if the Killer camps. Give the Killer more strong perks that reward leaving the hook. But JFC, DO NOT PUNISH A TACTIC JUST BECAUSE YOU DON"T LIKE IT!
I recognize that you are passionate about this man, but maybe take a moment to relax. Sitting on hook and pressing a button a few times isn't gameplay. Chasing is gameplay. Looping is gameplay. IDC if none of the gens get finished if I'm at least having fun running around. Even dying at the end to NOED doesn't really matter as long as the chases were actually enjoyable.
I wish the various "encouragements" we already had worked, I really do. People point to BBQ and No Way Out as an example of something healthy but the number of killers with BBQ that still play like this is not insignificant. And the game already punishes you for camping with a hit to your emblem status, which obviously doesn't work either. That's why so many people are trying to think of active mechanics to combat it.
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2382454#Comment_2382454
Fine. Here we go again.
Survivor #4 is hooked. Survivor #3 works on gens.
Survivors #1 & #2 go to the hook. They stand in opposite directions. They also stand far enough away that the Killer cannot start a Chase. The game now thinks the Killer is camping.
The Killer moves towards #1; #1 moves away, so no Chase starts. #2 moves towards the hook. Killer resets at hook. Game still thinks Killer is 'Camping' and no Survivors are nearby, because Survivors are too far away for the game to say 'There is a Chase!'
Same if he goes after #2.
The Killer now has 2 choices:
- Commit to a chase. This will give the unchased Survivor an unhook, even if the Killer does not want this.
- Keep camping; Hooked Survivor is immune to dying, so Generator Survivor has infinite time to do gens.
The Killer's choices are basically: Give free unhook, or throw the match. It was a lose/lose choice that he was forced into making.
At this point; I don't care if people say 'I don't see how it can be abused' because guess what? It was tried and it was abused.
Literally, this idea existed in game, and it was abused EXACTLY like I just wrote it. So I don't care if short-sighted Survivors 'can't see it being abused' because what they 'can't see' (or more likely, IGNORE) has 0 bearing that it. Was. Abused.
It's not coming back. There will be no pausing or slowing the hook timer, because SURVIVORS ABUSED THAT MECHANIC.
It does suck to be faced with that situation, but in a normal game if two survivors have to go for the save, you're already putting out a lot of pressure and you're doing well. Think of it like this: even in that situation where you have to essentially give up the hook, you are trading it out for the other survivor's hook state. That's progress for you. Even in that situation, the survivors had to put themselves at risk, and you got something out of the camp (injuries, or even a down). You can even still grab someone when they try to unhook. The only thing that doesn't happen is one poor survivor getting screwed out of actually playing the game.
I do think fully stopping it would be the wrong call, I just think proxy camping and especially face camping should be a last resort because it's not fun gameplay and this game is supposed to be fun. The change would encourage more chases, encourage more interaction with all players in a match, and generally make the game more dynamic. It would make it slightly harder for killers who play around the hook, but I think, honestly, it should be harder than it is, given how powerful it can be.
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2382421#Comment_2382421
' If the killer is too close to hook, the timer won't go down, or goes down at half speed'
For the 500th time; this was tried. Survivors abused it.
You have a survivor on hook, another survivor is around. You chase the other survivor. Results:
You down the survivor coming for the save. You now have two people on hook. Good job.
You can't down the other survivor, the hooked survivor doesn't die. This is you unable to win a chase, not survivor abuse.
You chase the other survivor away from the hooked survivor to down them, letting survivors get the unhook, which is normal gameplay.
You refuse to chase and camp, and survivors do gens. This is normal gameplay.
I don't see how it can be abused, but please do elaborate. Even in this situation, you can still harass the people coming for saves and even get downs. All it does is prevent you from facecamping eternally and being rewarded.
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@truegod_10 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2382397#Comment_2382397
If a ban was overridden then that person will just dc so this system does nothing to prevent those unfun matches you were talking about.
The fact is this game is in large part based on rng, from killer you go against, to perks of the other side, maps, and pallet spawns etc... It is frustrating sometimes but it is part of the game.
I mean honestly how would you feel as survivor if the killer got to pick the exact map so you always went to the same 3-4 tiny maps. Banning killers would have a similar effect for people who play those killers, being really long ques that only end when they get a team that likely is planning to go against them and has builds for it. Or where they finally get a game but a ban had to be overridden and so that person dc's to avoid playing a match they dont want ruining any fun for that killer or the other survivors.
Also keep in mind we are not saying que times for general killers would skyrocket; just que times for hated killers: nurse, spirit, hag, deathslinger, etc...
Also if you dont ban these killers then the game will basically have to put you against them to get those killers into a match; meaning you could likely predict the killer and design a build to play against that killer and you would face the same killers over and over until you get sick of it and ban them as well (creating a meta where everyone bans the same 2-3 killers and those killers never get matches).
Yours has been the only response that I feel has pointed out a real issue that couldn't be addressed with some changes to the system. You're right that by not banning X killer, you would be more likely to get them as the system compensates for those who do ban. That is an issue and I have no idea how to solve it.
Overriding the system would still result in the DC, but it would mean this happens less often. The system would still work, it just wouldn't work 100% of the time, in exchange for keeping Queue times low. There's gotta be something to counter those people though, because the DC penalty clearly doesn't.
I still don't think this would be as terrible as people think, because consider the full list of killers who people might ban. Nurse, Spirit, Deathslinger, Hag, Twins, Pyramid Head, Wraith, Bubba, Freddy, Clown, Blight, and likely others under certain circumstances. These are just killers I have heard again and again that they are annoying to go against, and I am sure any killer might be a ban target if a particular survivor just has a bad game against one, or keeps getting them randomly. This is ELEVEN killers, so the impacts of all of this would spread out across far more killers than people seem to be thinking, meaning that the overall killer impact is less.
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100% agree about global BP. Should be in the game by default. It's a team effort, people should be rewarded as a team.
Unfortunately, I think the BP for longer endgames would actually increase the annoyance because some survivors might want to be nice and would just sit in the gate for two minutes to give the killer some BP, like they already do when they wait by the exit boundary to give the killer one last hit. And would it reward a killer more who slugged someone so the timer was 4 minutes instead of 2? IDK. I like the thought but I think it's a bit iffy; there's probably some adjustment that could make it better, though!
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There should be some built-in mechanism to fight camping, but like others have said, I don't think this would work, as much as I wish it would. I think personally the simplest solution is just, to be silly, an "entity doesn't like you watching" rule. If the killer is too close to hook, the timer won't go down, or goes down at half speed. That suffering is for her and her alone, Bubba! Go kill someone else.
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I would enjoy a universal first person mode as a like, side mode, but the game becomes rapidly unplayable if you are in first person as a survivor. Can't look around, can't look behind you while running, etc. You'd have to get real intuition about the killer's movements, which is faulty information at best.
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Unfortunately, I think the issue is just that there haven't been many serious contenders. All games in this genre have some pretty major flaws so far, and I think DBD is only still going due to inertia. It's the best (and biggest) one of the bunch, and so everyone who wants to play this kind of game comes here.
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The intention behind this is to find a system that would increase the quality of the games all around and help combat the frustration of playing this game and getting screwed by RNG. Playing Legion and you get Mother's Dwelling? F. Playing Huntress and you get an indoor map? F. Playing solo and two of your teammates insta-DC because it's against Spirit? Nobody is going to have a good time that match at all because you're no longer really playing the game. (The DC penalty barely factors in when combatting this kind of gameplay, too.)
Since the majority opinion seems to be that killer bans would impact queue times, I will say that I may be speaking from a different PoV. When I play killer I never have a queue time for longer than a minute. I don't know if it's just where I live, or my rank, or what, but I have never had an issue with queue times, so an increase doesn't seem like a big deal to me. But! That's just me; if queue times really are that bad out there, then yeah, I think the system should make adjustments to fight against that, including overriding bans occasionally. I don't think this alone negates the entire idea because I still think it fosters a healthier game overall by lowering the number of games that are insta-thrown by pissy survivors that don't wanna go against X killer.
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@bjorksnas said:
Nah, while it would be nice to never see Haddonfield again all it would mean for the maps is more of the strong survivor maps in rotation as survivors get more choices for map bans
This is fair. I tried to think of a solution to mitigate this but honestly, I can't think of any. If killer bans were added, I wouldn't mind if survivors didn't get map bans in return, since I think map is more important from a killer PoV than survivor most of the time.
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@DoomedMind said:
Hm yes, I can't wait to have infinite queue time because I play Nurse. You can't ban a killer simply because how killer matchmaking works. You choose the killer, and you can't change. This isn't like LoL when the bans happen, and you adapt. So the killer will just wait forever if he's a hated killer for X or Y reasons.
This is punishing for wanting to play a character of the game, not a good design at all.
Also, poor Haddonfield and RPD, will always be banned xD
This response is for you as well as Power_Guy down there. It would make queue times a bit longer for certain problematic killers, but that is why there is only one single ban per player/group. I know, personally, my group would not ban nurse, because we enjoy going against her. There are numerous killers I could imagine a group banning. Nurse, Spirit, Deathslinger, Wraith, or even more common killers that they might just incidentally be sick of facing again and again one particular day. There are a great many killers, and single bans would not impact all of them that much. You can't ban all of them, only one, and everyone has a different opinion about which killer is the worst. Some people would ban Clown ffs.
And anyway, in my post, I made mention of exceptions for long queue times, which was meant as a solution to this exact problem. I imagine if such a system were implemented, it might still put banned killers against survivors that have banned them if the queue was getting too long. I think that's fair.
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It's a real bummer lol; lot of people on this forum expressing their displeasure with it though so... hopefully it can get changed? Honestly man, I don't think anyone would care if they just reverted it back. People really didn't ask for this.
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Honestly, the simplest solution I can think of is this: 50% of the bloodpoints you earn at the end of a match come from your specific actions, same as they do right now. The other 50%, in addition, will be collectively given to all survivors across the match when it is over based on group efforts. That way it can feel more like a team game rather than everyone struggling to get enough points themselves by cannibalizing others' points, but can still reward the good players and give bad players a reason to get better.
Numbers obviously could be tweaked, but it is really strange that a TEAM experience doesn't reward people as a team.
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I have had this problem too during the event. Rank 1 both roles but survivor has been exceedingly difficult to stay up there in the face of all the afkers and bad killers. At this point I kind of have to play greedy in the good matches I do get so I always merciless just to counteract it.
As far as solutions, I think the only real thing they could do is make it so you always at least safety pip if you get out alive. That might embolden really lame survivors who wait for hatch or whatever, but at least it would prevent the absolute frustration of de-ranking because you won too hard lmao. I suppose it could be if two survivors make it out then you safety to avoid that abuse.
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I main Legion because they're simple and require me to do clever things to win. I don't really feel satisfied landing some mechanically whatever hit like you'd need with Billy or Oni or Nurse or whoever, but when I know that I should have lost but I managed some clever play that kept me in the fight... that's the good stuff. With Legion it will always come down to that. You can't down with your power so at least 50% of the time you're gonna have to go back to basics and somehow make it work. And that's just fun for me.
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I'll respond to your list point by point.
1: Yeah, and camping would be the new annoying strategy, and everyone would run unbreakable, and yes, yes, yes. There are a million problems with this game we have to start somewhere.
2: That is only a problem if you are tunneling. Simply chase someone else who does not have the defense active. That is quite literally the point of DS. And with my change, it guarantees that if you are good enough in chase to down and hook someone else before the first person has their perk run out, you can actually have even more pressure than before if a survivor chooses to wait out the timer.
3: I agree with you. If I'm being honest, I would say that this innate DS should be active after every hook, too, just to prevent the counterintuitive encouraging of early tunneling, but I know saying something like that is grounds to have me hanged around here. Maybe there are other ways to fix that dilemma.
4: Maybe it's my playstyle, but I get a lot of downs in end game and can frequently even clutch out 4ks from 0ks. The game is never over until it is over. That is why I made this post, though, to specifically address how bad it feels to get multiple hooks in end game and have it all mean essentially nothing because of DS.
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Yeah, I'm sick of loop-ignoring killers. Looping is the literal only mechanic survivors have, it's the focus of survivor gameplay. If killers are introduced that ignore loops or basically guarantee that you will die if you try to loop, then the game is unfun and survivor is just waiting around to die, hoping that your team is sitting on gens, which is the most boring gameplay possible.
My favorite killer to play is Legion and I think it's because Legion is a perfect example of what I would like more killers to be like. You spread map pressure and add difficulty to the survivors by damaging them all over, but to actually truly down them, you still have to win a chase properly. This means that survivor skill still matters, my skill as killer matters, and so my games feel so much more interactive. Every down I get feels like I did something clever or read someone in a fun way.
So I suppose I'd like more killers like that. They don't all have to have non-lethal powers or super nerfed junk like Legion has (I fully admit to masochism.) but making killers where both sides can properly express their skill is way more healthy for the game. I think more killers should have powers based on map control rather than chase. And if they are going to be chase killers, they should have clear, understandable counterplay. Billy is a good example of this. A good Billy can trash teams but you can still learn to play against him and there are clear weaknesses. He's one of my favorite killers to go against because of this.
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I only feel like a win is really satisfying if I felt like I did something cool or unexpected that got me into the position to win. I play mostly Legion when I play killer and Legion is literally "Hope They Beef It" the killer and so I get the feeling of being out of control. But usually, the times that I feel really jazzed it's because I did something cool or tricky. I remember once, for example, I jumped off a hill and through a window to catch a David who had been running me like crazy the whole match and it felt so stylish that none of the rest of the match really mattered.
I guess that is what I'm trying to say though; if you play for the 4K or for rank or whatever goal like that it just feels like a recipe for stress. But if you play just to try and pull off cool things or learn new techniques or even just be a meme with people, it's more fun. At least for me! Although I will say even in the matches where it feels out of my control it can oftentimes be fun to finally find that one mistake a survivor keeps making and exploiting it. Like it's a puzzle or something.
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@LylakLavender said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2301236#Comment_2301236
Wait there is a way to hide from BBQ? I try to hide behind walls and gens. I even crouch instead of running so I don't leave marks. Doesn't help i have fellow survivors run the killer to where I am at. I have kindred on thought it would help and it doesn't. Well with me anyways. You figure I have been playing this for almost 2 years and I am trying to get better but having no luck lol. Even while dieing I still try.
You can dodge BBQ by climbing in a locker before your teammate is hooked, then getting out after a few seconds. It'll hide your aura! Also unfortunately Kindred is a double-edged sword. It is helpful, but some people will see that a killer was near you at all and be too scared to come help.
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@GrimmGaliard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2296830#Comment_2296830
I get you, but that means he has to stay as an M1 killer and has no traps to chomp people.
Trapper can't, you're right. Nurse, Plague, Huntress, Deathslinger and Pyramid Head can and do the exact same thing but you get injured. Trickster can't because he's a bum.
Trying to loop or vault without staying out of their extended range gets you a paddling. He's most comparable to Pyramid Head because any hit Nemesis gets, PH could likely get too but with damage.
100% agree that he needs more time in the oven though. Chuck Trickster in there with him!
Chuck 'em all in there! Just have one bi- wait. I don't like where this metaphor is going. The oven metaphor is canceled.
Seriously though, I think for me, playing against PHead feels less bad? Pyramid head has a bit more windup to his attack, and you get the big red bar on the ground to let you know where it's going to hit. You only see the blue on Nemesis after the fact. I think if they reworked how that interaction worked and to be more directly like PH (same timings, warnings, etc), then I would be totally fine. That, and I feel like Nemesis should have to "place" zombies just to make them feel less random. If he put it by a gen, then fine. If it just randomly wandered over, I want to die.
Anyway GG on this Reasonable Forum Interaction. You love to see it.
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@GrimmGaliard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2296732#Comment_2296732
8 total hits extra is INSANE. No other killer has to hit you potentially 8 more times than normal. I honestly can't understand how you find that a weak argument.
If it was 8 M1 normal hits, then sure. But these are hits that you would not be getting as another killer. If I'm playing Trapper, I can't hit people over pallets or through windows at a distance. I still have to close that gap, or succeed in a mindgame, or whatever. Nemesis can hit survivors quickly and pretty simply if you've got the aim at any vault. The bonus hit thing, I think, is meant to be the "counterplay" to that. Give survivors 8 chances to ignore Nemesis's strongest ability to buy time.
Granted I think that's pissssss poor game design. It's not fun from either side. For Nemesis, it feels bad to get a hit and not feel rewarded (although you do get your tier up), and for the survivor it sucks that the main counterplay is just an arbitrary are you or are you not infected, which is a resource that can run out (or more likely be wasted by bad teammates who just vaccinate immediately every time). Definitely think this killer needed more time in the oven, but lol, which killer doesn't at this point?
I can understand why my original statement sounded insane tho :( my b. Hope I explained a bit better.
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This is slightly off-topic but related, but I wish they would pull survivors from more diverse time periods. Killers come from all over, but imagine if we got like... idk, a literal actual pirate survivor from the 1700s, or a caveman, or even someone from the future. That might detract from the "slasher" vibe of the game, but they could easily at least give us some classic Gothic heroine a la Dracula. Would be neat!
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😔 I agree. I expected them to give us this skin but they went with the OG RE3 look which is... less good. Maybe one day they'll give us this one! I've loved it since I was a kid playing Jill in Marvel vs. Capcom 2 lol
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He's just kind of another No Loops For You killer, which are usually pretty boring to play against because the counterplay is running away ASAP. At least with Huntress, if you can predict her throw and juke it, she's still a slow killer overall so she can't just be on you right away. Nemesis is standard speed and any jukes you try to do just give him the time he needs to catch up to you. And zombies are frustrating because they are RNG. (I don't mind if he herds me towards one during chase, I think that's more fun honestly. But when they're just arbitrarily There it's just annoying and random.) Maybe he'll be more fun to play against eventually but right now he just feels cheap at loops which is like.. u know... the main fun part of survivor...
The "three hits to down" argument is a little weak to me. At -most-, you have to land eight total hits extra, and then that never matters again. (Once for each survivor by default, and then once for each potential vaccine. Can be less if survivors don't care, or if zombies get hits.) If vaccines were infinite and respawned as plague fountains do, then yeah, that would be really annoying. And that's only for M2. Can always use the m2 zoning to land a punch. All that said, I feel like the vaccine mechanic is half-baked AF and feels tacked on.
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I am a Kate Gamer. Her backstory is the most similar to my own life, she looks the closest to me of all the characters, and I like that her lore basically sets her up as the Entity's complete opposite. And I'm A Simp. I also have P3 for Lisa Garland and now Claire Redfield and enjoy both of them when I want to mix it up. White Girls Go Brrr.
For killer, I main Legion, and unfortunately, I must specify that I main Susie. I like her reluctant backstory, she dresses like I did in middle school lmao, and I appreciate Legion's basic power since I usually just play Killer to zone out and run around. M1 Gaming. I also play Pig for similar reasons. I am currently in the process of learning Trapper, too, but I suck so far lmao so the White Girl Curse has not been broken.
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This is a cool idea. Would certainly help with the grind and I think would feel really nice if you leveled a character without ever getting the perks you need. You could just do it again with a greater chance to get the ones you need. This would be good!
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I enjoy farming but yeah since getting out of low ranks I feel like killers only ever fake farming only to kill us all and just BM the whole time. Wish it wasn't like that. Farming is fun once in a while amidst all the tougher matches.
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I thought about this before, and I came to the thought that maybe during Frenzy, for each survivor past the first one you hit, a member of the rest of the Legion shows up and will exist in the map for a short amount of time. I had the thought that maybe they spawn and run to the nearest gen to kick it, and if a survivor is nearby they will run to them to try and attack, but otherwise, they will kick the gen and then leave again. Which would give Legion a bit more bang for their buck and solidify them as a macro-level game control killer rather than an individual chase killer.
This might be overpowered of course and would need to be really explored if it was going to be added, I just think it would be fun, and reward those really crazy tears across the map.