Shirokinukatsukami
Shirokinukatsukami
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I didn't say it was a bad nerf. I said I didn't like it.
Also I disagree with it being "OP" due to its use in stealth builds. It's OP because of its use in SWF builds. And the reason it was nerfed was because of its abuse in SWF builds. I have literally never seen anyone complain about OOO being used by stealth survivors.
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Not a fan. I understand why it had to happen but I hate the change, it makes it useless to me as a Stealth OOO user.
The reason why the perk is super good in stealth builds is the control you had over it. The new change removes all control of the perk from the survivor, rendering it useless for stealth players.
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@TheDarkTyrant said:
I want to know from the people that have been playing for a long time and are still playing what keeps them going. I have been playing for a long time but I stopped after the Twins. Are you guys just at your breaking point and about to quit or are you still having a lot of fun? It is just so confusing to me.
The game is just fun.
And there aren't many other games like it out there. Most of the have failed like that Yesteryear-something game, that Imagine 5 game or something and the Chinese gambling game.
I keep playing because it's fun to play. Period. And very few other games out there offer the same kind of experience.
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If your chases last too long that's usually:
- Survivor is in a strong position. In this case give the chase up and disrupt the other gens and catch a survivor in a bad position.
- Survivor is just much more skilled than you are. Not much to do here you just need to get better at chasing. As you go up in ranks you will face better and better survivors. You just need to learn better skills to catch them.
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DS is not an anti-tunnel perk. It's an anti-momentum perk. It has turned into an anti-tunnel perk because everyone complained about it and BHVR was forced into turning it into an anti-tunnel perk. But intrinsically that was never what DS was supposed to be.
The fact of the matter is, in this game if a perk is overused by majority of players BHVR will take a look at it to see if it needs to be adjusted. Not every perk gets nerfed in this manner; BBQ is by far the most used killer perk and one of the most powerful, but has never been directly nerfed and only been indirectly nerfed. It fits into BHVR's design philosophy and will never be nerfed and in fact even got a slight buff.
But most perks will see a nerf if they are used by majority of players and have extremely powerful effects. DS is one of them. Ruin was another. Because of how ubiquitous and powerful and often game-changing they are they need to be nerfed for the health of the game.
I don't know about blaming ourselves for the nerfs. I blame BHVR for their poor game design more than anything; perks like DS and Ruin will always be too powerful because they are one of the few ways to gain a direct time advantage in this game through perks, and time advantage is the only thing that really matters in this game.
PS - I can't ever be blamed for DS nerf because I don't even use DS.
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@Casanova09 said:
I'm so sick and tired of killers who refuse to break pallets and instead bloodlust and ######### I"M SO TIRED.
I'm about to quit survivor and just play killer since I can't even enjoy chases anymore when killers refuse to play like they have a brain
Not enough killers don't break palettes. I wish they would stop breaking them so I can use By Any means Necessary to reset the palette.
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I can 100% assure you survivors are still going to use DS+UB, they are still going to win matches with it, and we are still going to see at on of killers complaining about how OP DS and UB are.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1919913#Comment_1919913
Can we for once stop calling Ormond big? It is right in the middle, a little bit above average:
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Realms
Some other Maps which are bigger have never been called big.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1919903#Comment_1919903
It 100% became easier for Killers. But this also means that players, who are not good at the game, came to Red Ranks. So bad Killers will, occasionaly, get good Survivors (most Survivors are also not good either, but I feel Survivors adapt more than Killers), which means that people who should not be Red Rank will have hard games, despite the game being much easier for them than it used to be.
I really cannot understand how some people can say that the game is difficult or "the worst it has ever been for Killer". IMO the game became a little bit too easy for Killer.
Yeah I made a thread a month ago or so about how this game is really about people looking for a good challenge. Gist is that people actually want the game to be challenging to the right degree, but that too easy was bad and too hard was also too bad. And overnerfing or overbuffing leads to the latter, and without a proper ranking system for matchmaking it never works out.
I got laughed off the board of course but I think you are probably right in saying that the game got too easy for killers and this ended up with them getting to red ranks where they are having a tough time against survivors who are too good for them. I myself am in red rank as survivor but I think I don't belong in red ranks, I see how real red ranks play and they are a league ahead of me in gameplay.
In the end this game needs a proper ranking system to fix the matchmaking, until then we will keep seeing weird stuff in the demographics, and nobody will ever really be happy.
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@Yords said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1919903#Comment_1919903
You have a point, and I feel many problems can be attributed to just plain map design for both sides. Ormond is a little more killer sided, but it can still suck since the map is so big. Autohaven is still strong, but it can spawn some pretty nasty dead zones for survivors.
Ormond is killer-sided? It feels 100% survivor-sided to me.
Autohaven maps tend towards killer-sided. Especially after the recent updates, with only BloodLodge maybe being survivor-sided. Azrael's Rest is 100% killer-sided now.
Anyway, the evolution of this game has been interesting tos ay the least. I don't understand why there are less killers playing today. Or perhaps the number of killers hasn't changed; it's just that the game got more popular, and the new players are mostly survivor players. The game got a huge boost in playerbase last year and that's just going by Steam numbers. Playerbase doubled in 2020 compared to 2019 more or less on Steam, I'm sure PS4/Xbox numbers are similar.
Strictly speaking I think both DS and OOO needed nerfs/changed. It's for the good of the game. But the numbers and the balance of the playerbase just defy expectations.
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Funny thing about this game.
Historically, the more killers get the nerfs they want, the less killers proportionally play the game.
This game used to be a lot tougher for killers, but back then there were too many killers and not enough survivors. Killers got all the nerfs they wanted. Brighter maps, brighter clothes, removal of palette vacuums, bloodlust, removal of most god loops, auto window blocking, Exhaustion nerf, Mettle nerf, BL nerf, DS nerf, another DS nerf, etc.
Yet somehow instead of improving the play experience for killers it actually made it worse.
Who knows why, but judging from the queues there are less and less killers playing the game compared to survivors.
So strictly speaking killers getting the nerfs they want might not actually be the right direction for this game.
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@Casanova09 said:
Like it's a free win now why complain?
Contrary to what you might believe, most people want to play the game, not necessarily win it.
That's why when you have an AFK killer I just quickly blitz the gens and leave. I don't bother farming. I queue up to play, not to hold M1 down all game with no sense of excitement. It's why even after people have opened the exit games and 3 people are free and 1 person is on hook or being chased, the other 3 don't instantly get out. They want to keep playing and pushing it, even if it means getting caught and killed (and that happens so very often). And it's why killers don't like free kills, they want the rush of chasing and catching and besting the enemy. Not free kills.
New players tend to just want the win and are totally fine with free kills. That's why you got newbs playing Campface Bubba. they just want wins. But most players on both sides actually want to play and are not interested in free wins.
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Back 4 Blood is a totally different kind of game. In a totally different genre. Not sure why you are even bringing that up in terms of dead by Daylight.
B4B is not going to scratch the DBD itch. There's a reason why I'm still playing DBD alongside games like Deep Rock Galactic, Killing Floor 2 and Vermintide 2. It's because it scratches a completely different itch.
As for the nerfs, they are nnecessary for the health of teh game. Things that are too powerful that they are used by 90% of player need to be nerfed for the overall health of the game. Not that OOO falls in that category but DS does. But OOO is a problematic perk that wasn't well thought out when it was made. Nerfing it is the correct decision.
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@Casanova09 said:
You're playing the best killer in the game who doesn't need slowdown like I'm lost at that logic. Sure run whatever but it just confuses me
Corrupt is good for every killer. Even nurse. There are times when even nurse does need the slowdown. The first minute of the match is crucial for setting tempo. If survivors spawn at 4 different gens and each genrushes even slug nurse will have a hard time unless she plays a perfect game. Depriving survivors of that early tempo advantage is key for every killer.
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@Chchchcheryl said:
The thing is, that's 30 seconds the killer wastes just standing there which can be used to unhook from the clearly recent hooked player, get another gen up to about halfway, etc. and if the killer doesn't stand there their pop will likely be gone before they get back and they can only kick the gen with basic kicks until they get another hook!
That would have to be a pretty braindead killer to just stand there for 30 seconds waiting for the block to disappear.
Any decent killer will find another gen to kick or just kill any survivors nearby.
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@The_Arr_Red said:
So I used Repressed Alliance to try and counter Pop Goes the Weasel and buy some time in general. And my experience with it, besides not being able to charge the Perk with two Survivors on a gen because gens are too fast, that Killer with Pop will just stand in front of the gen until they can kick the gen with it. It is pretty sad to watch at and makes it not really worth to play in my opinion even though it is a fun an interesting Perk.
Maybe there is like another type of play you can make with Red Herring to distract the Killer with a gen he can't kick? But that probably would require SwF or just luck.
Trash perk that nobody should use.
Protect against Pop? You're also "protecting" the gen from your teammates. And yourself.
Just don't.
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I'm fine with them. I don't even use these perks.
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New OOO is trash, but that's fine it was an abusable perk and really didn't need to be in the game.
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I don't really care I don't even use DS.
I'm just gonna sit back and watch everyone go nuclear.
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I generally think LF is a bit overtuned. Strong though kind of like Freddy and is bad in specific situations. Also king of camping.
But on the whole no real need to nerf him. I would rather they remove Ruin and BBQ from the game than nerf LF.
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@SilentHillOnDvD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1916670#Comment_1916670
Who said anything about moris?
Every single killer asking for a key nerf.
Come on don't be coy. When moris were nerfed everyone started whining about keys needing to be nerfed in compensation for the mori nerf.
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@Ivaldi said:
"The Devs just said that Keys aren't as big of an issue as keys because even though it might seem like there are a lot of issues there aren't that many hatch escapes via a key"
PLEASE... Stop relying on stats. The reason you dont see a lot of key escapes is because IF YOU BRING A KEY.. YOU GET TUNNELED. As killers we aren't just going to say "Oh you got a key? don't worry.. I'll let you survive till end game". So just because they don't escape, doesn't mean it isn't an issue.
So what's the problem?
Keys are exactly that: not a problem.
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Simulpost. Hahhaa.
Hey that's actually pretty nice. So what happens when you use Distortion? I am guessing killer aura won't be revealed? But I don't think I'll be using this; I liked the old OOO because I could use it for stealthing. This one makes it impossible to stealth so I'm never using this outside of doing quests where I need to get chased.
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It's about time!
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So killers let's hear the "Devs are so survivor-sided they don't care about us killers" talk. Come on. My morning cup of coffee doesn't taste bitter enough without it.
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What's happening to OOO?
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Level 50 is just the beginning.
You need around 4million BP or so (rough estimate) to max out everything after hitting level 50 if you have most of the perks in the game.
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@SaltyNooty said:
I can and can't agree, the nurse is powerful but there are counter plays to her games. Her perks like stridor/Phobia/Nurse calling makes it hard to heal or hide but she's actually easy to predict.
Her blink ability make her movements extremely linear, it's only her chain blinking that's an issue. If you can predict where she's going, which is completely possible, you can predict the chain blink and eventually the lunge attack.
As an example, if you see her getting ready to use her power; get ready to move and make your movements unpredictable so that she'll burn through thr blinks and force the cooldown. Then again, this is just me but i'm finding it easier and easier to loop killers day by day. The nurse has counterplay and is loopable so I trust you can do it as well. All you need to do is pay attention
While nurse does have counterplay there is counterplay to her counterplay. You probably have never fought a god nurse.
Being erratic is counterplay but a skilled nurse will still hit you unless the terrain is severely in your favor. Faking works to a point but all it is is a play to get the nurse to make a mistake. A good nurse can compensate for that and still hit you. They also know how to do the first blink depending on the LOS blockers so they can see where you go after it for the chain.
This requires a lot of skill on the part of the nurse and isn't easy to do, but if the nurse doesn't make a mistake you are going down no matter what counterplay you are trying.
Killers like to say that it's impossible to beat survivors at the top levels unless the survivors make a mistake. This isn't really true but for nurse it is a lot closer to the truth. If the nurse doesn't make mistakes you are not going to beat her in the chase.
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@HawkAyeTheNoo said:
I'd much rather face a good Nurse than a Huntress who hits you around corners or a Freddy who hits you across the map.
Not if it's slug nurse, and all the good nurses are slug nurses.
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@Asssblasster625 said:
People don’t enjoy killer. Not everyone wants to have to sweat every game and deal with toxic people.
It was the same 2 years ago yet two years ago everyone was playing killer and nobody was playing survivor.
The game was also harder for killers back then and easier for survivors.
But I agree 100% you are right that people just don't enjoy killer -- and likely the issue is that the game doesn't have as much longevity for killers because killers solo the game. Playing with friends is just so much better, and even playing in a team with a PUG is better. Solo play is just not as long-term as a team game.
I don't enjoy playing killer much. I do it every now and then for kicks but in general the gameplay doesn't appeal to me. I much prefer playing cat and mouse as the mouse.
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Who is Scott.
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@shane32 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1915875#Comment_1915875
Im not talking about a good game. Im talking about a fun game. Ya they won woopy. These kinds of games games I dont care if I win or lose. I was asking if the survivors in these high rank swf groups actually have fun. when the game ends in like 4 minuts and they just know everything im doing at all times. Just sounds boring to me.
Obviously they do, they keep playing it that way.
Also realize that they just were matched to a weaker killer. If they were matched with a stronger killer they could easily get stomped regardless of whether they were on comms running meta perks. Contrary to what a lot of people seem to believe, this game isn't lop-sided in favor of one side's strategy or another. It is more dependent on individual player skill and a healthy dose of luck.
I have seen many meta teams using meta perks get stomped by a perkless killers or meme build killers. And I've seen many meta killers get stomped by survivors using joke builds.
I've also seen many Leatherface players do nothing but face camp all game and still get at least 2 kills. Man, he sure had a lot of fun didn't he?
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@dezzmont said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1916218#Comment_1916218
Right but that is an incoherent response because my argument wasn't 'it would be too hard to rework.' It is 'It should NOT be reworked.'
I like a map that exists to tell a 4 stack balanced landing group who got black warded after trying to send me to Lampkin Lane to go to hell, personally.
Killers have to deal with their perks and, worse, powers, potentially not being helpful map to map. Survivors have more control over the map, arguably the consequences of not getting a good map should be worse. And that map pool generally has some pretty good drop options, so having a 'dud' in the pool for a BL strategy feels important to prevent it from people rolling it after Lampkin hopefully gets obliterated.
The map definitely could use a bit more because the pool isn't so strong that it needs a 'You might just lose sending killer here' like say... Farm does, but I think it being very flat helps keep the pool balanced.
I have literally never seen a 4 stack BL group in this game ever since the nerf. BL used to be everywhere but today you see one once in a blue moon. The perk is not that good.
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Only when I'm playing Mirror Myers.
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@dezzmont said:
Survivors have so much control over the map though that it honestly is fine for each map pool to have maps that disfavor them or make certain perks situational.
Like we can look at ensuring balanced landing is good on every map once we fix totem spawns and make Huntress better on indoor maps. And I don't mean that as a 'whataboutism.' I mean that in a sincere 'The maps are intentionally asymetric and we absolutely shouldn't prioritize making Balanced landing safer when the asymmetry already heavily disfavors killers and making maps more globally survivor positive actually will hurt the game' sense.
Balanced is an EXTREMELY strong exhaustion perk on certain maps, better than any other, and you not taking any map based risk for using it is a bad thing, especially because its not just strong, its worse, its FRUSTRATING for the killer. And the reason survivor Q times are 20 minutes long despite killer being the stronger role is survivors keep bullying through changes that make killer more and more frustrating despite the fact a good killer should almost always 4k.
Totem spawns have already been fixed. Or at the very least made significantly better than they used to be.
I don't really mind that Balanced Lading doesn't work on some maps (and again hey you can still use it in the shack!) but Sheltered Woods is one of those abominably bad maps that just needs to be fixed.
Balanced Landing was also already nerfed hard so I don't see why it needs to be next to useless on some maps on top of that. I don't agree with your "extremely strong" appraisal of BL. BL was nerfed hard and is a junk perk right now.
Maps have consistently been reworked for the past couple of years to favor killers more. Maps are no longer grossly in favor of survivors and Sheltered Woods is the most killer-sided map in the entire game.
Survivor queues aren't 20 minutes long for me I practically play nothing but survivor, even at primetime queue doesn't take longer than 5 minutes. So might just be your region.
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You conquer the bloodweb by the time you hit around 1000 hours. By then it's just clicking stuff you stop caring about it.
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@Epsydra said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1915756#Comment_1915756
I don't need thousands of hours to prove to myself that I understand the game better than you do. Either way, it's ridiculous of you to put your playing time forward and desperately try to demean me.
You are proof that hardly anyone knows how to play without SWF.
You're so used to having dozens of second chances against the killer that you come to cry when he becomes a threat.
Yep, you won't always have someone saving you with a palette, sabotage, or flashlight.
Yeah, your allies might not have BT and DS.
Yeah, your allies might not be able to escape the killer.
Etc.
Stop playing around in front of the killer, and then you will survive. I've never played SWF and I'm doing great.
The only one trying to demean people here is you.
(And me you filthy console peasants).
You jump into this thread flapping your 80% survival rate epenis and go around critiizing people for "proving themselves." Oh the irony. Dwight would be proud you are using his perk.
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Filthy console survivors! Bow to us PC Master Race.
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They finished their gens and escaped. They avoided you and looped you around and survived. Sounds like the definition of a good game for a survivor.
I'm sure it wasn't fun for you because you lost bad. But I'm sure the survivors were pretty happy.
How did you know before the game started that all totems would be gone in a minute? Are you psychic?
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Since killers get to see the survivors in the lobby I don't see why they don't add an SWF icon on top of the heads of anyone in SWF. Might help the killer choose to tunnel those instead of the poor Solo Qs.
Or it might do the opposite.... killer may choose to tunnel the "easy" Solo Q first to eliminate them.
Whatever. I don't mind giving the killer more info. I also want to make life harder for SWF players so I rather they get outed in game.
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A lot of games still take up a lot of my time. The ones I was playing before I started Dead by Daylight were Killing Floor 2 and Overwatch. I still play both.
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@PhantomChimera said:
I am not sure what just happened but it was weird. I was being carried by killer during end game and suddenly we both teleported to somewhere else on the map.
The killer immediately dropped me afterwards and I started to crawl away as the killer followed. The killer was teleported back to the same spot. This kept happening every time the killer moved away from the spot.
Anyone ever seen this be for and what was going on?
Might be lag but more likely is hacker.
I've seen hackers use teleport hacks like that.
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@Draconianclad said:
Not that I use them to begin with oh, but making it so that you can only kill a survivor that is already reached the second hook phase is pointless. Why would I want to instantly kill you like that when I can just hook you and instantly kill you? How about instead remove them completely and just make it so that all killers can kill the last survivor.
If you don't use them then why do you care?
I've been asking devs to remove toolboxes and green keys from the game for ages because I care about these and actually use them, but since they are junk right now I rather they be removed. But the devs won't remove them.
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Bubba tends to attract the most toxic killers in the playerbase.
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I actually want an offering that does exactly this. It'll be an offering for the Survivor, not the killer.
It will place the Survivor strategically on the opposite side of the killer from where everyone else is, close to the killer but not in his line of sight at start.
It is a high-risk high-reward offering that you play with the knowledge that you should start the game and proceed cautiously, once killer heads tot he other side of the map you will be unmolested for a while and can do gens on the opposite side from where the rest of your team is doing gens.
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@albarty123 said:
Honestly, it was a good idea to nerf nurse and her addons, but she is still extremely powerful.
1.If you check tournaments Nurse is able to kill a 4 swf squad (each survivors 2k hours+) using voice connection
2.An extremely experienced Nurse is really such a toxic thing to experience, not only she completely controls the whole map because of her insane mobility, same insane mobility allows her to catch survivors quickly because guess what, she has no counterplay, she ignores pallets, windows, anything that survivors were initially given to run and escape from killers
3.When i solo q on red ranks nurse is almost an impossible killer to escape from. Those tiny mistakes that can be forgiven if you are playing vs killer with low mobility become disasterous when you are playing against her. And if you get feeding randoms, or ruining survivors then its good game
4.Here is one thing that makes Nurse extremely strong. For example, if spirit uses her ability to go to the other side of the map, it is set on a cooldown allowing survivors to live for a while. But the nurse does not have this drawback.She can consequently use her power to cross large distances and then immediately keep on chasing
I would recommend changing her power so that survivors will have some kind of counterplay
P.S. I would really appreciate people who dont play survivors on purple/red ranks to not comment on this post as i was told Nurse is really not popular in lower ranks
While what you said is true, the number of players who are at that skill level are not that big. Maybe like .1% of the playerbase, if even that.
You should not be running into god nurses every game. Or even every other game. I only run into a problematic nurse player on weekends. On weekdays I practically never run into one. Out of 30 games I'll maybe get a God Nurse just once. It's not so bad.
More often you will run into a "good nurse" which is leagues different from a "god nurse." Good nurses are strong but make many mistakes, and you can stealth them or keep them busy for a long time in a good map location. God nurses make few mistakes and you will go down within seconds, and then IF procs and she slugs the rest of your team in under two minutes. Good nurses are not that amazing and can be countered because they make mistakes.
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@Jejune said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1907087#Comment_1907087
Dude i can merge half of the perks just by looking,,,
That too hard for BHVR. Believe me.
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Asymmetric is a stroke of genius.
If it were a mistake this game wouldn't exist.
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@Jarol said:
I say this since I do not want something weak and similar like what happened with Twins and Blight, both are the least seen killers at the same level as Plague.
Blight is extremely common and is a rather strong killer.
Don't know what you're talking about.
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@Mr_K said:
I would error on the side that it does warn them.
Why? None of the killer detection perks warn the survivors when they are being detected.
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I am pretty sure it doesn't, none of the killer perks that give notifications to the killer inform survivors.
The ones that give survivors notification are the hex perks. Detection perks generally do not give warning to the survivor.
That said I don't really know because nobody and I do mean nobody uses Hoarder.