Seraphor
Seraphor
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Hackers might be a problem right now. Unfortunately survivors giving up is also a rampant problem right now.
So now is definitely not the time to ease up on the DC penalty if you don't want the game to die suddenly.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3113061#Comment_3113061
DH isn't dead, it's better against Nurse than it was pre-nerf
I've been hit by so many DH's the last couple days it's ridiculous.
Yes it's easy to bait out if you're looking for it, but you're not necessarily expecting it anymore, so you don't have time to react.
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The biggest problem with solo survivor is other survivors.
While information (that's superfluous to SWF but still beneficial to solo survivors) would be very nice, you can't make other players use it properly.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3113194#Comment_3113194
Perks should not the easiest way to get bloodpoints, that’s why they were changed.
And BBQ is still being used, FYI. It’s still the most used killer perk over the last two weeks on the aggregate site I’m following. A lot of people like BBQ for its aura and the bloodpoints were just a nice bonus, and they’re still using it.
BBQ had a 45% use rate before the change, so it's almost halved.
There's also the possibility a lot of killers aren't keeping up and are just using it out of habit, not realising they're not getting extra BP from it anymore.
The aura is nice, it's one of the few perks that gives you an objective to seek out after hooking a survivor, but it's not good enough to be the most picked perk.
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And the cycle repeats itself.
There will always be "that one killer" survivors can't tolerate and whine until they get nerfed.
First it was Freddy, then Spirit, then Wraith, now Nurse.
I remember back when Spirit was on the chopping block. "It'll never happen to Nurse, we all respect that Nurse has a high skill floor, Nurse is fine!"
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3112891#Comment_3112891
Yeah, I was kinda surprised about that too. When hexes were introduced, Thrill of the Hunt was added. Now, after boons, there is also a generic killer perk.
I personally would like to have a generic boon that simply shows the aura of survivors in that area to other survivors and the other way round. Meaning if you cant find your teammates, you enter the boon radius. If you want your teammates to find you, you enter the boon radius.
Its not extremely powerful, but it would be better than Kindred for solo survivors.
That's a pretty neat idea actually.
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A few ideas...
Boon: Vengeance
When a killer snuffs out the Boon Totem, they're stunned for 3 seconds and their aura is revealed to all survivors for 4/5/6 seconds. If snuffing the Boon caused the totem to be destroyed, their aura is revealed for an additional 4 seconds.
Boon: Evil Revealed
The killer's aura and the aura of any killer belongings within the area of effect are revealed to all survivors. The effect persist for 1/2/3 seconds after the killer leaves the area of effect.
Boon: Auspicious Aims
Whenever a survivor succeeds at a skill check while within the area of effect, Boon: Auspicious Aims gains a token (1 token for good, 2 tokens for great), up to a maximum of 6/7/8 tokens. All survivors gain a bonus 2% Luck for each token.
These all cause Boons to act in different ways, and thus favour different play styles. The first one you're banking on the killer snuffing it out, it's basically an insurance policy. If the killer tries it during a chase, they lose the chase too.
The second means you want the Boon up somewhere the killer is likely to be, maybe near or just outside of where you're working on a gen, so that you get warning when the killer is approaching. And the last one works backwards to most other perks, you activate via actions within it's radius, but it's effects are in play anywhere on the map.
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I'm surprised that isn't a generic Boon perk, now that we have Shattered Hope as a generic.
It could also be cool to have a 'reverse' Boon perk, similarly to Hex: Haunted Grounds and Retribution, penalises a killer for snuffing.
I'm not generally a fan of Boons, but anything to water down the frequency of Circle of Healing is a positive in my eyes.
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There is no 'stand off' mechanic in this game that's fun, whether it was the Hatch or unhooks.
Removing healthy hook grabs would seriously put a limit on the amount a camper can gain from that tactic, It would basically make hook trades more likely, but remove the possibility of two free hooks. I don't see what's wrong with that.
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Just like avoiding BBQ, knowing when someone is about to be hooked is something any survivor can do, not just SWF.
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Teabagged over the hatch in a game against Deathslinger.
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It should require you to fully recover first, so survivors don't just throw for petty reasons.
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I've been getting nothing but sweaty genrushing survivors all day, there's absolutely no way my MMR has suddenly skyrocketted.
So much for this patch making killers stronger, the added gen time has done absolutely nothing.
As someone who doesn't use a ton of slowdown/regression perks, I'm now finding that I'm being forced to.
This "arms race" is bullshit, forcing each side to take the most toxic builds possible because nothing else works.
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@FeryGEN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3110743#Comment_3110743
Survivors already gain their bonus, +7000 escape bonus
...when did that get buffed from 5000?
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@lauraa said:
How would this even work? Rpd is almost 1:1 in scale, right? Like, a few doors are blocked and I think theres a 3rd level besides the Library, but how would you divide East and West and make them full on maps?
Just barricading the middle sounds like a killers wer dream and a survivors nightmare; survivors already DC enough whenever somebody brings a badge
You don't split it down the middle. You make two variants, each with a smaller portion blocked off. Similar to how maps like Badham have multiple variants.
The map doesn't have to be half the size, only about a third smaller.
Something like this: (red is blocked off)
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@MB666 said:
SOLO PLAYERS, WHAT DO YOU WANT DONE TO IMPROVE SOLO?
1) KINDRED BASEKIT FOR THE LOVE OF NEA. (no killer aura reveal)
2)FINALLY A PURPOSE TO THE CHANGE OF THE HUD.
All of no.2
But no perks need to be basekit.
Perks are perks, and auras are very powerful. Powerful enough that they would boost SWF information too. I often use Kindred even when playing with friends because the ease of reading an aura is far greater than trying to fully comprehend some quick soundbite.
Solo survivor needs info, but not necessarily auras. Something that's more of a middle ground would be a Killer Instinct for survivors, a Survivor Instinct.
Perhaps it could be an item, or a basekit feature, of a trait of keys or something I don't know. But the ability to hold down a button while you're not otherwise occupied, and you see the direction of all other survivors. not an aura, not a precise location, just a vague visual effect that indicate the direction they're in. You can move around to get a sense of depth and therefore distance. This is enough to know if another survivor is say, close to the hook, or if they're moving in a certain direction, or if they're close to you.
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Altruism wins up until the last gen is repaired or someone is getting camped. At that point, it's everyone for themselves.
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Maybe if it's 30+, otherwise no, you can't really tell.
P1 might be a 5,000 hour survivor who's on a fresh character.
P10 might be a 200 hour survivor who simple P3'd one survivor before the patch.
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It would be neat if we got an item like this every Halloween that mimicked the most recent original killer's power.
So now it would be Dredge. I'd say an item that can trigger 20 seconds of Nightfall. Would be pretty fitting for Halloween, and it could increase the killer's movement speed by a small amount for the duration too.
Would be neat to activate it right at the start of a game, make the survivors thing they're playing a Dredge, then suddenly they get exposed by Ghostface!
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It's to get people playing both roles. It's healthy for the game and you'll be a better killer if you're familiar with survivor.
You get to reroll your daily rituals once a day anyway. Don't want to play survivor? Reroll, and put up with whatever you get next.
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They've done this before. In fact I still have some, and I think they're still useable.
Halloween 2020 killers could obtain a Blight Serum, effectively it was an item that gave killers an additional power instead of their own, which mimicked Blights rush.
Blight Serum is an Event Killer Add-on . Blight Serum applies an x2 multiplier to the Killer's default Movement speed: Blight Serum was originally added with Patch 4.3.0 for the 2020 The Eternal Blight Halloween Event and could only be obtained temporarily. It was re-enabled for the 2021 The Midnight Grove Halloween Event. It is always available in Custom Game. Blight Serum was the first and to date only Universal Killer Add-on. Using the Blight Serum with The Trapper allows him to Rush past arm -
Who's being silent? I've mentioned this at least twice.
They should rework BBQs old "hook a unique survivor" into a 500 point bonus score event, this would give you an easily attainable extra 2000 and maintain the incentive to spread hooks.
Survivors have the same issue with the Survival category. Which could similarly be rectified by replicating WGLF's old bonus as a 500 point score event.
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@AnchorTea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3110280#Comment_3110280
I have never seen this infographic before. Care to explain how its drastically different than Dbds?
You won't have, I literally just made it.
What else do I need to explain?
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The issue isn't camera sensitivity, it's joystick deadzones, and it's as much of a problem on PS as well, and just as it's a pain for flashlights, it also makes ranged killers virtually unplayable. You try to aim at a survivor, but every movement of your thumb massively overshoots your target, forcing you to repeatedly correct your aim, wasting absolute shitloads of time.
Most games have a gradual zone where sensitivity increases from 'dead' to... whatever you've set as your max sensitivity. This allows you to have finer control over your camera movement. DBD has nothing like that, it's on or off, nothing in between.
E.g. by changing your camera sensitivity settings, all you're doing is changing the colour of that circle. Without deadzone settings, its still just a solid colour.
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Overcharge got a buff, not a nerf, and while Pop may have been nerfed, the gen-kicking paradigm overall got buffed. Overcharge, Call Of Brine, Eruption, and of course the 2.5% base regression.
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It's still essential for Plague because you need to make survivors cleanse.
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And despite this nerf, Thana is still pretty much essential on Plague in order to get survivors cleansing.
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@Xord said:
Uh no? Why would you be punished for building the way you're supposed to (taking similiar perks)?
Have you been living under a rock for the past few weeks?
The whole purpose of increasing gen times and reworking the slowdown meta was so killers didn't need to run all slowdown perks.
Instead, killers are capitalising on the increased gen times by running all four slowdown perks.
Do you understand how balance is an issue?
Do you understand why Exhaustion was added to the game and while survivors running all chase perks was a bad thing? I'm sure some of them thought "but its my build" at the time too.
@bjorksnas said:
Slowdown math is multiplicative not additive
if its 20% from thana and 30% from pentimento its 1 * 0.7 * 0.8 not (1-0.3)-0.2
there would still be room for more slowdown
Ok, but it's only 6% wiggle room, not enough for a 33% from Dying Light.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
They didn't buff a single regression perk except jolt.
And Eruption, and Overcharge, and Thana (initially)
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@Kzzortney said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3107969#Comment_3107969
I see what you mean with Hex perks, but there is Undying that gives you a second chance for your Hexes. Also, when someone takes time to do the Hex perk, that goes in your favor because that’s more time they’re not doing a gen (i.e. not contributing towards getting out of the trial).
Bloodwarden, can be activating by forcing someone out of exit gates while you have someone downed. You can also waste Survivor’s time until the end Game collapse is well past the point of them being able to escape when it is activated. Lastly, you can open the gate yourself to increase the chance of using it.
Point is, I don’t see any perks listed that the Killer themselves can deactivate by progressing towards a win.
Ruin now deactivates when you eliminate a survivor.
Corrupt Intervention now deactivates when you down a survivor.
Thanatophobia now loses 75% of it's effect when you eliminate the first survivor (used to be 25% per survivor)
But that's just nitpicking.
The most telling thing here is how you refer to camping and tunneling as toxic behaviours that must be stopped.
This alone says everything about the type of player you are, namely one that's bever played killer.
Camping and tunneling can be toxic, if they're carried out very early in the game or if they target an individual for a toxic reason, but alone they cover a wide range of behaviours and tactics that are largely all fair and legit strategies.
Most obviously is that at endgame, when all gens are repaired, the killer has no secondary objectives left. When the exits are powered, all forms of camping and tunneling are entirely fair game. Hence why survivors second chance perks deactivate.
Not only is the behaviour they're targetting fair game at that point, but the act of gaining a second chance becomes infinitely more powerful, as you're not simply securing a few seconds to escape a chase and stay in the game, you're securing an escape entirely.
Second chance perks at end game are far more powerful, yet their purpose as anti-camp/tunnel measures is not necessary.
And for the rest of the game, it is absolutely true that if you have time to further your objectives, you're not being camped or tunneled.
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@Wewantjason said:
I'm sorry friend but no. I am a killer main and as much as I despise seeing that perk it isn't as busted as you think
Many survivors don't realize you take an overall action economy debuff when you do gens together. It makes that ONE gen go faster, but it's still going slower than if you did two gens separately.
Prove thyself simply removes that penalty and adds the tiniest of buff. That 15% buff includes making up for the (I believe 8-10% debuff? I forget the exact number) that survivors receive for doing the gen together
If they actually did three separate gens while you were in chase you would be seeing things go even faster depending on your mmr and skill bracket.
Tl;dr prove thyself is a decent perk at best. Depending on the survivor communications and gen spawns it can both help and actually even hurt them so no it doesn't really need a nerf. It's fine where it is.
Then again as a killer main sure get rid of it Lmao. I can be honest about how it works but I still want to win lol
All of this, except the debuff is actually 15%, and because of how the math works out, deducting the 15% nerf and then adding the 15% buff afterwards, it doesn't actually fully reimburse it. That's why you still see a red progress bar with Prove Thyself, it's still about 0.5% less efficient than repairing a gen solo.
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Absolutely not.
Between players who dont speak english, players who sinply ignore it, players who use it to be racist, homophobic or otherwise offensive, and just flat out children, there is absolutely no way this would improve solo survivor in any way, purely negatives all round.
What soloq needs is info, not garbled slurs screamed at you in Russian.
That means:
Being able to see your teammates loadouts.
Contextual action icons over player portraits.
A quick chat function that includes maybe 4 to 6 preset messages.
Some kind of limited ping system, like killer instinct for survivors.
Soloq doesn't actually need that much, it just needs to be able to convey some limited but crucial information. Its still up to the players to act on that information correctly, but you can never fix that.
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I don't understand why they didn't just nerf it to 4% per stack. At 16% max it's on par with Gift of Pain.
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This is more of a buff than a nerf. You now only need to take 2 protection hits instead of 3.
The 'downside' introduced is not realistically going to happen if you're using it the way it's intended.
Old Effect: You take one protection hit, you go away and heal. Next opportunity, you take a second protection hit, go away and heal up again. Third opportunity, you get to take two protection hits back to back because you gain endurance.
New Effect: You take one protection hit, you go away and heal. Next opportunity, you get to take two protection hits back to back because you gain endurance.
If you take your second protection hit and for some reason decide to leave the killer and let the survivor you tried to protect go down, you've already ######### up.
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MoM got buffed.
It now works after 2 protection hits instead of 3.
The "nerf" realistically won't affect anyone who's using this perk properly.
Basically, you should have no reason to run away from the killer if you're taking protection hits and have an endurance effect.
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Don't get grabbed?
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@theTARNavsky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3106881#Comment_3106881
You can't take two hits during one chase that won't down you when trying to protect someone. If you use styptic to get the second hit, you're in Deep Wound causing MoM not to work anyways or you can go away anyways to mend. In any scenario you have to leave and do something else so the person you're protecting probably gets downed anyways.
Up until now it was: take hit - heal - do stuff - take hit - heal - do stuff - take hit - take MoM hit.
I cannot see any scenario now where the new MoM will be useful.
Did you not read my post?
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@Lyn said:
I am extremely confused by this patch all around. Nerfing Thanataphobia was justified, but making it useless except on the killers it was already annoying on vs solo queue players? Why?
Nerfing Mettle of Man? Why?
Skill checks are apparently too oppressive so their solution is bringing back Pain Resonance and Dead Man's Switch combo meta because? What?
I don't understand the point of this patch at all, how is this intended to make the game more balanced and/or fun for anyone?
Actually MoM got a functional buff.
It was never used before due to it requiring three protection hits.
Now you just have to bank one protection hit, go away and heal. Now next time youre able to tank 2 protection hits back to back.
It only becomes a nerf if, for some bizarre reason, you leave the action, go far away from the killer, and decide to work on objectives.
Considering you have to be in very close proximity to the killer to trigger this anyway, that should never happen.
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This now just makes DMS an essential perk to pair with PR.
The info is infinitely higher value than the blocked gen.
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I don't understand what was so difficult with just making it 4% per stack.
You now get 6% slowdown with 3 injured and still get 20% slowdown when all four are injured.
This is still oppressive when used on Legion/Plague, the only killers that can actually ensure 4 injuries at once.
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I don't understand what was so difficult with just making it 4%.
You now get 6% slowdown with 3 injured and still get 20% slowdown when all four are injured.
This is still oppressive when used on Legion/Plague that can actually ensure 4 injuries at once.
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I would rather have a notification as killer, than any kind of OP regression/slowdown.
The notification was an anti-camp incentive.
No info = no reason to leave the hook.
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Remember Me being worse than No Way Out means nothing when you can combine them for greater effect.
I would say this should be an entirely new perk.
"Show the aura of any survivors openning an exit gate. When exit gates are not being opened they regress at 200%."
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The game keeps losing 10k players every July/August. I wonder why...
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"it's their own choice not to eat ds early game."
So... killers are supposed to tunnel early in the game now?
"why was the hook near the gate, and why was not it in the basement?"
Boil over maybe, or sabotage, or its on the opposite side of the map, or maybe they were hooked in the basement but not downed until near the exit.
"Why did the unhook happen to begin with at least without a trade?"
Because, believe it or not, camping is not uncounterable. You only need one healthy survivor to bait a hook grab for a 50/50 chance at a rescue, throw in another to body block and you can't even get a trade.
"Why did the survivors reach end game?"
Because they did their main objective. Endgame is still part of the game. You haven't won until you cross the exit line.
Answer me this: Why did you get downed again? Why didn't you reach the exit if you had already earned your win? Why didn't your team mates body block for you? Why didn't you run OtR for endurance? Why didn't your rescuer run BT? Seems like you could have easily prevented going down again.
Perks have their uses, and their windows of activation.
If you're running Adrenaline, you're playing without a perk until all the gens are repaired, and if you're healthy when that happens, no perk at all.
If you're running Deliverance and you get hooked first.
If you run Unbreakable and don't get slugged.
Do these "not make sense"?
DS is to penalise tunneling, which is only bad sportsmanship before endgame. At endgame the killer has no secondary objective and the survivors have completed theirs, so it's anything goes and camping and tunneling become not just valid, but core tactics.
Old DS was actually punishing killers for completing their objective. They downed the survivor, doesn't matter how or when, they progressed their objective and the survivor lost a chase, the survivor failed, yet that survivor would have a 100% guaranteed escape, and the killer has no counter. That does not make sense.
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I'm guessing their thinking is "maybe if I lock this locker, the Dredge will stop for a moment to break it"
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Thana is almost essential on Plague. It's value isn't the slowdown, it's the way it pressures survivors to heal. The "no cleanse" meta against Plague completely denies her power, so you need to get survivors healing to use your power.
Dying Light isn't all that good of a perk. It benefits survivors at the start of the game, and unless you tunnel the obsession they can offset any stacks of slowdown by being the repair bot.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3105218#Comment_3105218
Some good ideas here. I really like the Thana idea of auto drop-off. Maybr 45s would be a good measure? You could just heal right now and a heal should still be preferable to waiting it out, but 1min is already quite a lot of time in this game.
But I think the basic idea we are discussing here is the right step in the right direction: somehow prevent all this stupid stacking of individually ok perks, that easily add up to something broken.
The other thing is the camping problem. My solution would be to give killers a BBQ basekit effect, ie after hooking someone show them the survivor furthest away (minimum 24m) and give them a 10s +15% speed boost as long as they are moving away from the hook and outside of a chase. Once the killer enters a chase or enters 15m radius around the showcased survivor the speed boost turns off.
I'm not keen on basekit aura reading, and I don't think BHVR are either.
The main thing with camping is, it's a legit strategy, with a cost. That cost is you're giving up gen pressure. So capitalise on it. If the counter to camping is 'doing gens', then make gen speeds faster when a killer is camping.
This is not abusable in the same way that 'slowing the hook' was, because any survivor attempting to keep the killer near the hook to maintain this effect isn't doing gens, and so is squandering this effect.
It could still be too 'complicated' to be basekit though, so I think it could work as a decent survivor perk. "When a killer is within 16m of any hooked survivor for more than 10s, this perk activates. All survivors receive a 6/8/10% increase to repair speeds until the killer is more than 24m from the hooked survivor, does not stack with itself."
Other than that, killer incentives are also important, like BBQ. Pain Resonance also worked really well to dissuade camping, but it lost it's information in favour for regression when it should have been the opposite. Nerf the regression to 10% or even 8%, then bring back the noise notification.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3105178#Comment_3105178
I think that, even though BHVR clearly doesn't want to, they should implement more build restrictions, which paradoxically would open up more design space for them, as not everything has to be balanced against everything else.
Like give certain perks a "gen regression" or "gen slowdown" keyword and you can only have to equipped at a time. Or maybe even let Nurse just have one slot for gen regression, crazy, I know, but maybe it's time for some more individual restrictions.
You could do the same with "second chance perks", restricting the more bonkers combos without necessarily nerfing the individual perks.
This is basically what Exhaustion was added for.
Before this patch I suggested doing something similar with second chance perks, anything that effectively gave you a free health state with no other cost, so Decisive, Unbreakable, Deliverance. Basically you would get one 'second chance' per game, and if you used say Unbreakable, then you used that one 'second chance' up and you could no longer DS or Deliverance.
Using a similar system for slowdowns could be feasible, but slowdowns are so varied, and with varied potencies too, that it would need to only target the few really problematic ones.
I'm thinking at the moment the perks that would make the most sense would be; Overcharge, Eruption, Pop Goes the Weasel, Oppression. These all require the killer to kick a gen and all initiate some form of bonus regression. So if there could be a mechanism that limited these effects to only one at a time, that could be an effective restriction. You could still pair them with things like Dragon's Grip, Trail of Torment, even Call Of Brine (because this doesn't initiate any big regression dump, it just doubles your base regression rate).
Things like Thanatophobia are trickier to work into a shared system, I think this just needs a flat nerf, or alternatively it could be powerful enough to become a Hex, or just be reworked to something like "upon injuring a survivor by any means, gains 1 stack for 60 seconds", this would mean stacks would successively drop off even if survivors didn't heal themselves.
Know what else could be a good idea and allow more nerfs to slowdown? Killer add-on buffs.
Nurse doesn't need more slowdown, nor does Blight, but Myers? Trapper? Sadako? Maybe.
Ghostface for example has an add-on that regresses a gen by 20%! that's not insignificant, and it can save you using a load of slowdown perks on him.
You could give Myers an add on that functions as a mini Jolt with a shorter distance when in tier 3, or Trapper one that inflicts survivors who disarm traps with a temporary reduction to repair speeds. You can then nerf slowdown perks even further, and the killers most reliant on them have other options, giving them room to use non-slowdown perks like... Brutal Strength or STBFL.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3105139#Comment_3105139
Here is a thought experiment: you take a post-patch killer with all the buffs and a full endgame build and compare them to a pre-patch killer with Brutal Strength, 3 stacks of STBFL and two wounded survivors with Thana.
Who will fare better? Whoms opposition is more likely to crumble and rip like wet toilet paper? Why is it the post-patch killer, even though the pre-patch one got higher numbers on all fronts?
The problem tying all of these buffs to perks poses is the problem that all M1 killers, all low-mobility killers, are then 'forced' to play things like Brutal Strength and STBFL just to have a fighting chance, while the 'top' killers, Nurse, Blight, etc. get to make use of full builds. Which is much the same as 'all solo survivors are forced to play Kindred'. Both are legit issues.
These baseline killer changes were absolutely good changes for levelling the playing field between killers. And similarly, survivors are in need of baseline buffs that benefit solos more than SWFs. Would you be ok with a new camping/tunnelling deterrent if it was just another survivor perk?
As for slowdown, what they should have done is as well as increasing gen times like they did, ALL slowdown perks should have been nerfed. All of them. Not some nerfed and some buffed to 'shake up the meta', just nerf all of them. Overcharge and Eruption didn't need buffs, and Thana definitely should have been nerfed.
This would have legitimately made slowdown perks less necessary, and less effective, resulting in '4 slowdowns' being much, much less likely to happen. This would have opened up the meta far more effectively, and would not have benefitted campers as much as it has.