Seraphor
Seraphor
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Definitely Coldwind and Swamp, they somehow feel equally bad on both killer and survivor.
Badham is a bugbear of mine for killer specifically.
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Kobe still serves a purpose, if there's a chance of unhooking yourself then attempting to do so is a valid play.
I don't understand why theyre implementing a sanctioned 'go next' system for when everyone is slugged and thus in an unwinnable situation, but if your unwinnable situation happens to involve you being on the hook, you get penalised for it?
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2v4 but survivors get 6 hookstates.
Everyone is in the game for longer so early elimination isn't a thing anymore.
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What do you mean by "recently found out"? And how old is that info?
They have actually changed (or are going to change) how MMR is affected for survivors according to how many teammates are sacrificed or escape, making it more of a team-weighted personal rating.
For killer it functions perfectly fine as a 1v1 equivalent system. (Theoretically, of course because MMR is already weighted based on your opponents MMR, if survivors MMR is wonky then killers will be by association)
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I can't believe I missed this. Took a break from the forums because I was finding everything to be too negative and then I miss some truly wholesome positivity.
Thanks for the recognition @HerInfernalMajesty and happy belated new year to you all.
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@jajay119 said:
faster bleed out = promotes slugging and go next
Some sort of recovery = discourages slugging and encourages return to normal play.
This is the point I raise every time someone suggests bleed out as a solution to slugging.
But slugging is normal play.
Killers routinely slug for pressure and survivors have as many basekit and perk counters to slugging as they do for hooks.
The problem isn't slugging as a function, it's obnoxiously refusing to hook, it's extreme slugging for the 4K, it's bleeding out in spite. These are mechanically outliers, they're abuse of the system.
Basekit Unbreakable punishes all forms of slugging, as it halves all the pressure it generates by no longer requiring survivor coordination. Why stop repairing the gen to help your teammate when they can just pick themselves up in a few seconds?
However conditional basekit Unbreakable, that ONLY activates when ALL survivors are in the dying state or hooked, would mean that it only comes into play in those extreme outliers where slugging is being abused to troll or prolong the game to secure a guaranteed 4K.
Basically; if no survivors are standing, i.e. all survivors are either dead, hooked or dying, THEN, survivors gain the ability to pick themselves up, and the moment one of them does, it's deactivated again.
This would turn any potential 4K slug scenarios into a fruitless game of whack-a-mole that the killer will eventually lose unless they commit to a hook.
Something like this already works in 2v8, where survivors on death hook gained basekit Unbreakable. It meant that when down to the last 3 survivors, to prevent hatch spawns, if one or more are on death hook it's impossible to keep all 3 down and stay on top of them indefinitely.
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Oh the queues in 2v8 aren't balanced, what a surprise.
2v8 was always a mistake. 2 killers is a great idea, and evidently it's the main draw for this game mode. The same is not true for having 8 survivors, survivors aren't eager to play with more teammates, and with many people itching to play killer duos being those who would normally play survivor, lop-sided queues is an inherent feature.
There is no reason why it has to be Two v EIGHT. No reason why that balance has to be maintained. It could be Two v Five and queues would be a lot more even. You can make each side equal by adjusting other factors, like number of gens to repair, or by giving survivors extra hookstates. The latter would mean survivors can play the game for longer before they're eliminated, making survivor more palatable to play, further easing queue times, win-win.
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Some people like playing of certain maps, for a whole host of reasons that aren't just "unfair" "survivor sided" "scumbag players", so there should remain a way to select or influence your map.
Not all of us are triggered by seeing an offering or care what map we get sent to. For those that are, sac wards exist. This is the best system to keep everyone happy.
But I think sac wards could be improved further:
When a sacrificial ward successfully blocks a map offering:
- All players receive a 50% BP bonus.
- The map offering is returned to the player who burned it.
If no map offering is played, the player who burned the sacrificial ward gets a 25% BP bonus, in line with other brown offerings.
This way, the use of a sacrificial ward keeps the player who used it happy, they don't miss out on BP bonuses, and no map offering is wasted. After all, no one wants to be playing the first RPD offering they've seen in 150 bloodwebs to try for that achievement, only to have it instantly negated by a sac ward.
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Also they can be no more Hex perks that start the game with multiple lit totems.
Haunted Grounds already does this, which means you can start a game with 5 lit Hex totems.
Another one would require 6 totems to spawn.
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Count the hooks. If they have 5, then it's legit. They just got their 4th and 5th downs without using M1 attacks, and/or they got multiple hooks before rescues were made.
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Yeah, a survivor being faced with this would likely assume Devour, and at 4 hooks in with no gens, probably expect they have little chance of getting gens done.
At that point it only takes one survivor to give up. The rest, even if they would have been willing to play out the game, will fall like dominoes. An uncleansable Devour is bad but losing a survivor at 0 gens is worse.
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Purple items every game has nothing to do with being P100, it's about BP economy.
Players generally earn enough BP on average per game to complete multiple bloodwebs, which equates to multiple items.
Even playing Myers purely as Scratched Mirror every game, so long as I reinvest the BP I earn as him back into his bloodweb, I'm still in credit for Scratched Mirror add ons.
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Seems like if they're going to treat you as a DC, the game should force you out of the game instead of teasing you with the option of finishing the match for nothing. The other survivors will at least get a bot instead of an afk ragdoll that way.
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These perks never increased the BP cap for their respective categories. They only made gaining BP up to each cap slightly faster.
You can still reach the cap by simply paying a decent balanced game.
If you're dominating as killer, let survivors go, let them repair gens so you can kick them for Destruction points, let them unhook so you can hook again and score as many hooks as possible for Sacrifice points, leave them slugged so you can down them again after they get picked back up for Hunting, use your power for Deviousness, and in doing all this you max out Chase points effortlessly.
If you weren't already doing this and you weren't hitting the caps every game, then you were already playing inefficiently, and if you were hitting caps, then you were flat out wasting the bonus BP.
It was never worth running perks just for BP bonuses anyway, outside of old BBQ which applied it's bonus to the total and not a capped category.
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It's because killers play a scoring game whereby they can win up to 4 kills (or 12 hooks, depending on what you value more), while for survivors It's an all-or-nothing elimination game. That's just part of what makes up the asymmetrical nature of the game.
As killer, if I've played a good game, scored plenty of hooks, then a 3K is just as much of a win for me as a 4K. It's no skin off my back to let the last one go.
But playing survivor, I have one singular goal, to walk through that exit gate (or hatch if it has to be). Anything less a total forfeit.
There will be exceptions. If I really pity the killer, and they've scored virtually no hooks, and I'm feeling generous, and I don't need to escape for a challenge, then I might just offer up a hook knowing there's a risk I don't get saved. But it's a once in a blue moon event, unlike letting one go as killer which happens in maybe 50% of instances where it's an option for me.
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I will never stop playing Mirror Myers.
But I might play more regular Myers, might try out chase builds again with Enduring, Spirit Fury etc, Coup de Grace maybe.
I doubt his perk synergies will change all that much, but it'll be a little more consistent in using his power.
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I would suggest that Doctor should inflict madness on those within the terror radius of either killer, so sharing the other killers terror radius.
However their new killer class system kinda killed that idea.
Not really a fan of the killer classes, I think it worked better with each killer having it's own team skill.
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Not basekit, but it should be something on a generic perk, such as Spine Chill.
Alternatively, it could be something that's used sparing to balance some of the more effective aura perks. For example:
Weave Attunement: "Inflicts survivors with Revealed, revealing their aura"
Meanwhile things like killer powers and add ons can show auras without 'inflicting the Revealed status'.
Mirror Myers would be pretty dead if survivors always knew he was looking at them.
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For the latter; it's because survivors playing together would be able to tell their surviving team mates what perks the killer is running.
For example you die at 4 gens, you see the killer has NOED, you tell your friend who's still in the game to cleanse all the totems.
You don't even need to be in a premade group, you could message other players via steam/xbox/psn.
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@SidneysBane1996 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843714#Comment_3843714
"Only earned a 3k"
LMAO a 3k is still a win. That's a Killer win, you already earned a win. There's no "only" about it, YOU WON. Slugging for a 4k is kinda lame, unless they brought the sweaty/bully energy first. Then it's pretty valid.Yes I agree. It's still not a 4K though.
If there is to be any meaningful distinction between a 3K and a 4K, then there should be a meaningful amount of effort to obtain it, just like escaping.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843714#Comment_3843714
Fundamentally disagree.
It is intended mechanic not circumventing.
Slugging does require skill, you had to outplay them to down in the first place. It also does not guarantee a 4K, just inaccurate. I’d also disagree about only earning a 3k. If you are getting hatch you don’t earn anything. If a hatch is used to escape it was an earned 4K. Hatch is an unearned free escape for no reason.
You need to outplay them to down them in the first place.
And then you can hook them. Or if you can immediately see the other survivor you can slug and start a chase. That's the intended mechanics.
To leave the third survivor on the floor for minutes at a time while you scour the entire map to ensure the fourth survivor has absolutely no other options available to them, is not an intended playstyle, nor does it require any more skill beyond downing the third survivor to begin with.
A 3K is by no means an earned 4K, any more than 4 gens is an earned 5 gens. Survivors can repair all the gens and even get the exits open, and still die. By the same metrics, the killer can hook everyone twice, kill 3 survivors, but then still has to earn that fourth kill, it does not get given to you just because you killed 3.
That last survivor HAS to have a viable method of escape, regardless of how the game has progressed until the point, which is why the hatch exists. Because if they don't, then the game is already forgone once the 2nd survivor is eliminated, resulting in the last 2 survivors giving up, and making every 2K an automatic 4K. This would mean balancing the game around a 2K as a win for the killer, resulting in huge survivor buffs/killer nerfs.
The killer has the equivalent of the hatch. No matter how badly the killer plays, they always have the option to camp a hooked survivor during EGC, which is a good chance at securing at least 1 kill, that doesn't require much skill.
The killer equivalent to removing the hatch would be all the hooks outside of the bassment breaking once the gates are powered. After all if the gates are powered the survivors have earned their 4E.
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@Blueberry said:
"that way at least the other Survivor would have the chance to get Hatch "
Here's the problem with that. That's quite literally the reason you're getting slugged in that scenario. The killer is slugging to prevent that exact thing from happening. I'd say it would be better argued for a hatch rework or to simply bring an anti slug perk if it's happening that often.
If the chance at hatch involved some skill component or was earned I could see this, but it's not. It's just a freebie escape after losing..just..because.
It's current design is also what leads to the "two people left and we're just both not touching any objectives and hiding in the corner of the map or a locker" scenario because both of us want the escape. Which happens very, very often and the killer realistically has no counter play here. This hide and seek typically wastes more time than the entire rest of the actual match took.
This is why the core problem is the hatch, not slugging.
The problem is that the hatch exists for a reason, and slugging to prevent the hatch spawning is circumventing that mechanic.
Getting the hatch might not involve "skill" but it is still a fair shot, it's pretty much a 50/50 chance, slightly in the killers favour. (Unless it's a high mobility killer then it's heavily in the killers favour)
Slugging the third survivor doesn't require skill either, nor is it a fair chance, it is a stalling tactic to guarantee a 4K when you've so far only earned a 3K.
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@GeneralV said:
Map offerings aren't the problem, the map themselves are.
No killer wants to see The Game, no survivor wants Haddonfield or one of the Coldwind deadzones. If the maps were better balanced, something like the good old patch 3.7.0, we wouldn't have this issue.
Oh I love being sent to The Game as Mirror Myers
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@iceeinchrg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842766#Comment_3842766
Don’t think so. Old Town of Salem has text, and new Town of Salem has voice. I’ve played a lot of new Salem and with consistent groups, and unless it’s someone with really bad tells, it’s always a guessing game. And then if you guess wrong…
Doesn’t Among Us also have voice now?The difference is Amongus and ToS players generally play those games in good faith. I've played both and is more fun fooling your friends than the randoms.
You get a 3+ person SWF in this game mode and 1 of them is the traitor, they'll be more incentivised to use that to help their SWF than the killer. Partly due to rewards, they're not going to screw their friends out of BP by getting them tunneled out, but also because there's a cultural factor where the killer is always the enemy in every way. Of course there'll be exceptions but I'd wager the majority of SWF will serve their own.
The only way I see it working reliably, is if you can only queue up as a 4-man at most, there's always a solo, and the traitor us always solo. This way the worst case scenario is a 4-man, a 3-man and 1 solo. The 4-man still have 4 other options that they need to suss out.
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https://youtu.be/YkMFjcJp-nY?si=jgql7FztZBBtMweo@100PercentBPMain said:
Double the survivors means double the chance of being left on the hook to die. Basic math, right? Wait, that can't be right..
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@EternalRique said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3841708#Comment_3841708
But that doesn't excuse it neither; "well yeah she's broken but only by the top 5 players who know how to play her!" LOL broken is broken. I just feel nothing in game helps against her, pallets = easy hit, flash light doesn't burn anymore, most perks don't affect her such as sprint burst/dead hard/etc.
You break line of sight and dodge her blinks. Most Nurses are more than manageable so long as you learn how to feint your pathing and bait her blinks the wrong way, allowing you to extend chases as long as any other killer. Not unlike Blight.
The only time Nurse is broken is when she's stacked with aura perks and ambushes you without warning through a wall. But that can also apply to Wraith, Sadako, Artist, Pyramid Head, Dracula, Vecna and Mirror Myers.
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@UndeddJester said:
The only issue I can imagine: (Plot Spoilers do not read if haven't played Casting of Frank Stone)
If any of the cast makes it to the DBD game, there are two issues.
1 - It implies there is a canon ending for TCoFS, and I think the main point is that your actions in the story allows you to create your own unique horror experience.
2 - It kinda gives away the ending of the game, as building up to sending the surviving cast into the trials is the climax of the game... and the main draw of the game is discovering the story.
For anyone who hasn't played the Casting of Frank Stone, it's a very cool game with an interesting story and a creepy atmosphere.
It's not particularly hard, it's more about the story, andnits a create your own horror experience type deal. How much mileage you'll get is questionable, but it is very cool for any DBD or horror fan.
If you're unsure maybe wait for a Sale, but it is good. Would recommend.
I don't think either of these are significant issues, because like any license/collaboration it can just be chalked up to the Entity reaching through time to pluck a version of that character from a different timeline/universe.
Anyone who hasn't played FS isn't going to presume that the existence of any characters in DBD has any bearing on what is canon in FS.
And for anyone who has played FS… well you'd know that there are potentially unlimited variations to the timeline to draw from. Every ending is potentially canon, so it really doesn't matter who is included.
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There are 2 versions of Ironworks and Autohaven now, you could be alternating between them.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3841708#Comment_3841708
Why is her kill rate so low then?
Several reasons:
- free character, meaning that inexperienced players have instantly access to her. Plus the fact that Nurse does not really play DBD; so everything a new player could have learned on Trapper or Wraith will not be transferable to Nurse (unlike for example Billy, who is also not that easy to learn, but can be played as a pure M1-Killer)
- steep learning curve - as said before, it takes a bit of time to get used to her and all those games contribute to her low killrate.
- console players - probably not a big influence, but you can expect many games on console lower her killrate, because she is hard to play on console. And this over all skill levels, a beginner will do even worse on Console compared to PC. And even a good Nurse on Console will most likely be less good than a good Nurse on PC due to the hardware.
- People dont just play to win but to have fun - if you dont just play the Killer which wins you the most games, you will probably not play Nurse all the time. So even if players are good with Nurse, the amount of those players who rather play other Killers is high. Meaning there are less people to increase her Killrate. You dont see popular content creators play Nurse that much, because it is not really exciting. E.g. if you ask me, I would not say that Nurse is my favorite Killer, but probably the Killer I get the best results in. I would rather play Billy over Nurse all the time. Or even some B- or C-Tier Killers, since they are more exciting to play. So the killrate of other Killers is more influenced by good Killer Mains than the killrate of Nurse.
Just saying that her Killrate is low, so Nurse is not busted is just way too easy and wrong thinking. With every other Killer reasons are found or made up why the Killrate cannot be that high, but with Nurse the raw numbers are fact and Nurse is weak because of that.
That every Content Creator who creates a Tier List puts Nurse at the Top and declares her the best Killer is meaningless apparently - even if there is not even any discussion or reasoning given at this point like with other Killers, where you can argue if for example Billy or Blight are better or if Ghostface is better than Sadako or other things like that. The reason why Nurse is always labelled as the best is simply "It is Nurse" and if it is THAT easy, there is a reason for it.
But yeah, the kiLlrAtE.
I never said that she wasn't a strong killer or that having the lowest kill rate means she's the weakest killer.
We're all well aware Nurse is at the top.
The point is her place at the top is deserved, it's warranted BECAUSE of her learning curve and because of her kill rate.
That doesn't mean she's busted and broken, it means she's supposed to be strong.
She's far from impossible to deal with, which is made apparent due to her low kill rate. She requires a different approach, both to play as and play against. That's what most people don't appreciate.
There is absolutely no way you can nerf her enough to bring her in line with other killers without also making her a complete joke with a 1% kill rate.
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@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3841549#Comment_3841549
So difficult that playing her for 50+ games means you can go against 90% of all players.
Why is her kill rate so low then?
If she's so easy to play well, and so OP, why does she not have the highest pick rate and highest kill rate?
Stats don't lie, most people cannot play Nurse.
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@frozzenk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3841538#Comment_3841538
What do you mean far from OP? Do we play the same game? She is top 1 most powerful killer in pretty much everyone's list.
With the lowest kill rate, becsuse she's incredibly difficult to play well.
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Even if they make survivor "more fun" (not that I think it's particularly un-fun, 2v8 survivor is probably the most interactive the game has been for survivors so far with the different skills you can use) it's ultimately just a numbers game.
Most people want to play DBD with friends, it's when the game is at it's best.
In normal games, this works because players in groups play survivor while only solo players can play killer. If roughly 2/5ths of players are solo, and half of those play killer, then you get an equitable split between survivor and killer.
But with 2v8 suddenly people can play killer with friends. When you consider that most people play in a duo anyway, now the ~3/5ths of non-solo players are queuing for killer and 2/5ths for survivor. Proportionally you have anywhere as high as 3 times as many killers and maybe half as many survivors.
Making one role disproportionately more frustrating than the other isn't a good fix, and it's not going to stop people wanting to play their preferred role anyway.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3840816#Comment_3840816
Nemesis and Wesker, but they must always be played together.
Kind of a joke idea, kind of serious. But I think you're correct that killers with spawnables wouldn't really work.
I'd like to see Nemesis and Wesker playable together if they both just inflicted regular T virus, so you just get Nemesis chests and no ouroborous infection.
This way Wesker is slightly nerfed but assists Nemesis's power.
No zombies though.
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While the addition of more killer options is going to draw more people to play killer, it also has an improvement on queues in the sense that there are more viable killer matches.
You can't have two of the same killer, so when you only have 5 options, you're throttling potential killer match-ups in much the same way as turning off crossplay.
With 8 killer options you're exponentially increasing the number of viable matches.
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3839116#Comment_3839116
The latter aboslutely isn't. Slugging is already very potent in DBD, countering a large menagerie of perks. Stacking on even more incentive to do it is not what we should be doing right now.
Slugging is potent because it's currently more advantageous to slug than it is to hook. Dying survivors are easier to control and play around than hooked survivors, and requires less time/effort.
But killing a survivor is absolutely more advantageous than both. There is a benefit to slugging a survivor who isn't on death hook, there is no advantage to slugging a survivor who IS on death hook (outside of the possibly of DS or a sabo play, in which case slugging is absolutely fair).
Hooking a survivor who can be rescued, healed and then continue to repair gens doesn't gain you any immediate ground, but eliminating a survivor who can no longer contribute to repairs is the single MOST effective thing you can do as killer.
So no, having this repair speed bonus trigger on sacrificed survivors does nothing to promote slugging outside of what would usually warrant slugging. But triggering it on hook/cage absolutely promotes tunneling.
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So it seems these numbers are too high.
The gen speed increase should be something like 5% for each survivor sacrificed, instead of 2.5% for each cage state.
This way it only kicks in as survivors (who repair the gens) are reduced, and it becomes the catch up mechanic it was meant to be.
With 8 survivors instead of 4, the difference it makes counting cages instead of sacrifices is massive. You can score up to 16 hooks before anyone is sacrificed. That's up to 6 survivors (minus up to 2 in chase) repairing gens
40% faster. Meanwhile there's only 8 gens to repair, not 10. The maximum penalty caps out at 35%, but with that many more survivors it's more likely that they'll have multiple gens on the go at once, so the penalty isn't kicking in soon enough. It's not comparable to the main game.In regular games these numbers might work, when you only have 8 hook states to worry about and they cancel out at an even 4 gens repaired. But it would still be healthier to count sacrifices even then to dissuade tunneling.
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The gen speed increase should be 7.5% for each survivor sacrificed, instead of 2.5% for each cage state.
This way it only kicks in as survivors (who repair the gens) are reduced, and it becomes the catch up mechanic it was meant to be.
With 8 survivors instead of 4, the difference it makes counting cages instead of sacrifices is massive. You can score up to 16 hooks before anyone is sacrificed. That's up to 6 survivors (minus up to 2 in chase) repairing gens 40% faster. Meanwhile there's only 8 gens to repair, not 10. The maximum penalty caps out at 35%, but with that many more survivors it's more likely that they'll have multiple gens on the go at once, so the penalty isn't kicking in soon enough. It's not comparable to the main game.
In regular games these number might work, when you only have 8 hook states to worry about and they cancel out at 4 gens repaired. But it would still be healthier to count sacrifices even then to dissuade tunneling.
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I'd rather it be a periodic temp game mode while they build on it and iron out the kinks.
Whether or not if ever gets to a stage where it can be permanent I'm not sure. It'll always be playing catch up to the main game, and it may be too problematic for queue times anyway.
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Unless Ranked offers significant rewards, I can't see why the sweaty players who only run meta and camp/tunnel would choose to play against challenging opponents rather than just beat down casual players in Unranked. Most of them already ignore the current reward system of Bloodpoints (you get more if you DONT play sweaty) and seemingly do it for the instant gratification of dominating their opponents.
And if Ranked did offer significant rewards, then you need to factor in if those rewards are proportionate (does it breed fomo for unranked players?) and if the anticheat is effective enough. If it's not, you create a massive incentive to cheat.
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/432459/2v8-repair-speed-scaling
Encouraging survivors to 99 gens and encouraging killers to slug death hook survivors is probably not a good idea for players having fun in the average match.
Both of these are a greater risk than a reward.
Survivors should be learning to split up on gens anyway, but 99ing them when they're done risks the killer regressing them, then that extra repair speed is wasted.
The killer would gain more gen pressure by eliminating a survivor than they do by leaving them slugged and able to be rescued. One less survivor is effectively about 33% slower repairs in general (in the main game mode) as you go from having an average of 3 unoccupied survivors down to 2. Then eliminating the second survivor drops that to 50% slower repairs.
But basing it on hooks rather than sacrifices means you're better off tunneling a survivor out, so that the 7.5% faster repair speeds from making 3 hooks is countered by 33% less repair capacity. While if you spread 8 hooks without killing anyone, that's 20% faster repairs with no decrease in survivor numbers.
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@Gardhome said:
2V8 | Developer Update : r/deadbydaylight
Trapper and Billy getting buffed. Huntress and Nurse see justified nerf. Also new classes for both sides looks fantastic. I see only 2 problems at least for me
Killer Classes
New Killer Class: Shadow
- Class Ability: When within 32 meters of a teammate, you gain Undetectable. Injuring a Survivors transfers the Undetectable effect to your teammate instead. This ability has a cooldown of 30 seconds.
- Info Ability: When your teammate initiates chase with a Survivor, reveal the Survivor for an additional 4 seconds.
This class sound completly weak trash, i mean whats a poin with undetectable status effect that work only on you with your teammate radius (means you do not get value cause survivors still can hear your teammate terror radius)
And second from all killers they can bring to mod they choose the most boring one (Spitit, Deathslinger, Blight). Its really dissapointment.
If you're on the edge of your partners radius, survivors on the opposite side won't hear your partner's radius and you'll be undetectable. You hit them, then let them escape your now audible radius, and they run into your undetectable partner.
This promotes a specific form of hit and run while not directly teaming up. Which means it's better to stay close but not too close to your partner.
I think this is a good design. It means if you play smart you can get good stealth value, but you don't benefit from it if you're double teaming a survivor to the point they have no chance of escape.
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@Mandy said:
Okay, I edited the Developer Update to reflect the correct numbers, it should be:
5% per gen completed and 2.5% for each cage state. Sorry about that.
Those numbers look better.
Would still suggest it be 7.5% per eliminated survivor however.
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Best thing to do is run Sole Survivor and Wake Up. Once a game starts to go south play cautiously and be the last one alive so you can blast open the exit once the hatch is closed.
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@radiantHero23 said:
The same reason why wraith makes sounds when cloaked.
Sadako has the fastest transition in and out of stealth in the game, while maintaining full movement speed when demanifested. I assume, to counter these points, the lullaby got implemented. It's also pretty accurate to the film.
I don't think the lullaby kills her stealth. It just let's the survivor know that she's approaching. Doesn't tell them from where and when she will appear. Therefore it is still very much possible to get some free hits due to being demanifested.
I wish however, that some of her useless addons would change to effect the lullaby. The telephone could invert the lullaby, making it play map wide and only getting silent, when sadako is approaching.
Addons like the sea soaked cloth or rickets pinwheel could decrease the radius of the lullaby.
The audio for her Lulaby might be fair, however with the visual heartbeat, you get a clear indication the moment she crosses into range even when undetectable.
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I guess it would be similar in concept to Rapid Brutality, although the example you've given is far too much of a drawback for what it gives. If anything this cost is even greater than current Exhaustion, so the effects should be higher value.
The reduction should be no more than about 2.5%, otherwise you're pretty much guaranteeing you go down 40 seconds into every chase.
And the effect should rival the likes of Dead Hard and Sprint Burst. Perhaps the impossible "on demand Sprint Burst" could work with this.
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I think it would be healthy for the game if a lot of the most effective slowdown perks either deactivated or diminished after a survivor is eliminated.
Slowdown is ultimately only necessary when the number of unoccupied survivors outnumber the killer. E.g. you have a survivor in chase and three on gens you're outnumbered, but if you eliminate a survivor and have one in chase and one on hook, you're even or in credit as the last survivor now has to make a save.
After all pressuring survivors off gens is the best form of slowdown you can get, better than any perk.
I'm not too sure Pain Res in It's current form is best suited to scaling with survivors though. It already only activates once per survivor so it's a bit of a high value high stakes perk to use as it is. Maybe if it proced 10% regression on every hook like it used to then it could work, that way the killer would be actively rewarded for not tunneling. As it is, being deactivated on sacrifice could end up making it a wasted perk slot regardless of if you tunnel if you don't manage to make your first few hooks on scourge hooks.
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I think you'll find Billy is a milkman.
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@bleep275 said:
Killers should never have that information. Tunneling is already a huge issue, and that would make it far worse and easier
It's not difficult to choose a survivor and then repeatedly hook that survivor. It doesn't require tracking hookstates.
It becomes much more difficult to track hookstates if you're spreading out hooks and trying not to tunnel.
Hiding this information does nothing to hinder tunneling. But it does make it more difficult to not tunnel and leads to accidental tunneling.
I don't like tunneling, I usually try to get 8 hooks before I eliminate someone. But I'll still slip up and forget who I've hooked when, or miss when someone goes to 2nd stage on their first hook.
Do you know how often I get accused of tunneling when I've never done it intentionally?
Hiding hookstates most definitely results in more tunneling.
Now that I can't trust my own internal hook count thanks to survivors moving them around, I'm going to end up accidentally tunneling a whole lot more.
At the very least there should be an indication when you pick up a survivor if they're on death hook. At least then you can choose to drop them and allow a rescue.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3835793#Comment_3835793
What's more is that these two perks synergise. By healing one survivor, you charge up two instant heals for yourself. Throw on We'll Make It and a decent medkit and you get 3 heals in about 5 secondsThey only really synergize if you don't keep healing though. So if you get a heal in, hooked, second winded, and then another heal (which if you're running We'll Make It you should be trying for), your right back to having second wind as your first proc.
And if you get targeted first or another survivor gets the heals, you have two dead perks slots.
And this is one of those perks that becomes weaker the more survivors run it as you are now competing for the same thing.
It seems like a massive investment on perks, especially if you bring a medkit, where instead you could just bring a medkit with a syringe and some extra charges, and get two heals on yourself without the need to find someone to heal, and the trade off on time seems more than made up for on the risk of all that time broken where the killer might find you plus you get to use those extra perk slots for something else.
They only really synergize if you don't keep healing though. So if you get a heal in, hooked, second winded, and then another heal (which if you're running We'll Make It you should be trying for), your right back to having second wind as your first proc.
No... they have different activation requirements. Neither supercedes the other. And if you have to heal someone while the perks already charged so what?
And if you get targeted first or another survivor gets the heals, you have two dead perks slots.
No different to Second Wind, except this isn't limited to only unhooks and can be used after you've been targeted first.
What can I say, after runing Second Wind religiously for months, you learn not to get targeted first. There's always a more reckless survivor, usually carrying a flashlight.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3835749#Comment_3835749
This just seems like such a niche scenario with so many downsides and/or better options.
If you haven't gotten to heal someone yet and the survivor coming up isn't injured, you can't use the perk.
If you haven't gotten to heal someone yet and the survivor coming is injured, solidarity might be a better option (I never expected to say 'solidarity would be a better option').
If you have got a heal in, but then got injured, hooked, and unhooked, second wind would be better.
If the survivor coming to heal you has a heal build, then the time savings are considerably less.
Even if you pull this off, if the killer comes along within the 60 seconds and downs you, it might have been better to take the heal.
So you need a scenario where you get a heal, you get injured, you don't get hooked, another survivor comes to you, you activate this, and your next encounter with the killer is long enough for the heal to trigger. So if you hit a killer using an anti-heal hit and run build I guess it would shine.
This just seems like such a niche scenario with so many downsides and/or better options.
When it happens as often as it does to me, doesn't seem all that niche.
I run Second Wind all the time and have survivors running up to me teabagging instead of just joining me on the gen, before they realise I'm broken.