Seiko300
Seiko300
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Absolutely not.
There are a lot of things to hate (and love, but not the focus here) in Dead By Daylight... Bugs, Horribly balanced and / or designed addons, powers, perks (DS, NOED, etc.), map design in select maps (IE Midwhich), the community being so polarizingly split (just play both sides and gain perspective?), The Devs insistence on releasing updates every few months instead of releasing some obvious small tweaks and updates every few weeks instead (for example changing Values in already existing perks, why do you need a whole 2 or 3 months to do that?), The Plague, but undoubtedly...
Steve's voice TOPS my list.
"Its own charm"?! Are you out of your damn mind?? It has to be the worst thing I've ever heard in my life, not only is it a terrible recreation of Steve's actual voice, but even from just a general voice acting standpoint it sounds god awful. His screams when he is hooked hardly sound like a Scream, it sounds like if you asked a robot to imitate a human scream and that's what came out. I remember Bricky once said Steve sounded closer to how an opera singer sounds on stage than a person in pain. I've frequently heard players say that they would either A. play so much more of Steve if his voice was changed or B. Constantly run Iron Will because Steve's voice is so bad.
THIS. Is what you call charming??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8RJ7IYNt3cThis is horrible and a complete joke. It is entirely laughable how poor and ridiculous his voice is. I don't know how anyone could possibly like this when there is an obviously better alternative: Joe Keery himself.
And it's not like we've never heard Steve scream either, we've heard him scream in Stranger Things:
https://youtu.be/M00E84ayk7E?t=219You can watch the whole video but I've copied the URL at a specific time: 3:39 because it's the only moment (that I can recall) in the entire 3 seasons where we hear an extended scream of pain out of Steve. Something actually comparable to what you hear out of basically everyone else in the DBD survivor cast.
So I ask you to watch both videos and answer me seriously and honestly @Pior_Morte @Elcopollo and everybody else who voted "Yes" for some inexplicable reason: does that really sound like Steve? and on an even more basic and fundamental level, does that even sound like a legitimate scream of immense pain??
BHVR seriously needs to get Joe Keery on the line and allow him to actually voice his own character, like how it should have been from the start.
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@Venzhas said:
I think time has no meaning in the entity world
One year is one second there maybe
Plus people inside dont feel time effects, theyre all dead basically
I think it's generally thought of the other way around. A year in the realm of the entity might be a second in the real world, this wa
That way the torment the survivors suffer through seems so much longer and dragged on, never ending as seconds blur as years and minutes are near centuries, making it all the more mentally more draining and cruel. It adds a mental element to the torment survivors go through and requires more enduring perseverance and hope on the part of a survivor to survive.
But I mean yeah, the principle of Time being super wonky and non-linear is something we all agree on about the story.
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Pear.
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@White_Owl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1589256#Comment_1589256
If they aren't useful for the Entity they are probably incapable of living anyway.
^
The Void is where they go after they've lost all hope. They quite literally have no hope to carry on and continue trying to live and survive so there they exist in torment, husks of their former selves, completely devoid of all hope and likely all other emotions.
It's quite possible that returning survivors to their original homes would also alert the people of those world's to the Entity's existence, and therefore pose as a potential threat / create complications. So there's also that, also just generally speaking...
Why the hell would an Evil Primordial Deity feeding off the hope of its victims let them go??? Even if they were useless to the entity, why let them go? Like what, the Entity all of a sudden feels nice and charitable maybe even a little guilty after a torment of 100 years?
Which by the way, it's suggested or at least implied that Entity is extremely goddamn old, according to the wiki:
"The rich presence of auric particles and cells also indicates that The Entity is far more ancient than the Observer and his people ever suspected, leading to his speculation that The Entity is an "Original One", an "Ancient"
So we're talking like, origin of the universe old, an existence as infinite as time which we as humans can hardly comprehend. That's part of the whole mystery of it all, the point I'm getting at here is, 100 years might be a whole lifetime for us, it could be an ungodly long amount of time to be in torture and suffering, but in the grand scheme of the universe 100 years may as well be equated to a second. Potentially less than. So, even if the entity did let anyone go, it certainly would not be after such an insignificant period of 100 or even 500 years. Again, let alone at all, the entity definitely doesn't let anyone escape no one that we know of has ever been known to escape. Not benedict, not vigo, not the observer, nobody.
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@VolantConch1719 said:
The MacMillan Estate is located in Seattle, Washington. We know this from Evan's Archive Blood, Brass and Grit
Autohaven Wreckers has a car with an Illinois license plate on it and an old, discontinued offering for it was a Virginia license plate. So it's in one of those places.
Coldwind Farm is Hillbilly's realm. Hillbilly is a term that usually gets affiliated with the Tennessee area of the U.S.
Crotus Prenn Asylum is tricky, but I always just imagine Pennsylvania (Prenn reminds me of Pennsylvania). A bit of a stretch though.
Haddonfield is a fictional town in Illinois.
Backwater Swamp is likely in the Louisiana area. It's kind of known for the bayous.
Léry's Memorial Institute is in Illinois. Illinois seems to be popular.
Red Forest is the name of the forest within a 10-square kilometer area of Chernobyl.
Springwood is a fictional town in Ohio.
Gideon's Meatpacking Plant is in New York City. One of the agents in one of the movies mentions a code specific to New York City.
Yamaoka Estate is in the Kagawa Prefecture of Japan.
Ormond is a fictional town in Alberta, Canada (although there is a real town called Ormond in Ontario, that's not the Ormond in DBD).
Hawkins National Laboratory is in Indiana.
Grave of Glenvale is in Arizona.
Silent Hill is a fictional town in Maine.
I think that's all of them.
Illinois is quite the diverse state for serial killers. I'm glad we have such variety over here lol
From the classic suburbs, to top secret Government funded institutions, to your creepy old sub-standard wrecking yards
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It's certainly a classic, and unfortunately I think his influence in terms of horror is downplayed amongst the DBD playerbase just because there's so much question about how the hell it would work gameplay wise. But most certainly he is one of the classic horror icons that is widely recognizable just like Myers, Freddy, Ghostface, etc.
I would be super interested 1. to see him at all in the first place and 2. to see how they got him to work, because I'm honestly certain there is probably some way they could get him to work. If they did he'd certainly be the most unique killer in the roster
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1595411#Comment_1595411
Well, exactly. This is why I would not buy them. But IF there would be a difference, if they would make them unique, I would buy them, even if they are 15 Euros, when I like the character.
Ah, I see.
Hopefully they do revisit these skins, I really don't see them reducing prices of anything in the shop (even the stuff that has been there even since the shop first released years ago) so them correcting their mistake and actually making these skins worth the price they set them to would be really cool.
Legendaries would need to blow people out of the water with attention to detail to be worth that price. The Minotaur is a great example "Instead of hearing the war-cry of a legendary samurai warrior I should be hearing the bestial roar of the Minotaur, I should hear the animalistic breathing of the bull, instead of a Japanese Kanabo instead he should wield a Labrys" on top of this "change the animations of the character as well from the unmistakably precise and controlled movements of a samurai to an unbridled and unrestrained beast let loose in the Fog. This should be reflected both in the weapon cooldown animation and idle animation like in the shop / character select screen."
Super small details down to the Killer Power Icon should also potentially change, for the Oni the killer power icon is the iconic Demon Mask of the Oni, when you're playing as the Minotaur, make it the face of the beast instead. Hell, change the mori for a killer using a Legendary Skin. That would for sure set legendary skins (at the very least for killers) apart from the very rare skins, by creating an alternate mori that will be used whenever you have that skin equipped.
Now that would be worth 15$ if all that changed. Otherwise what we've got right now are just sorry sad excuses for legendary's and I, like many other players have said, want nothing to do with them.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I would buy them (also for 15 Euros/Dollar) if:
I like the Character itself.
And the Legendary Skin differs from usualy purple Skins. So, different name in Lobby, different voice and for Killer different secondary weapon. This would be worth the extra money.
Except they aren't, this is how it should be but it isn't. As it stands Chery's voice is recycled for Lisa and The Oni's voice is not altered in any way upon changing into the Minotaur, and for the matter the Greek Minotaur for some reason still wields a Japanese Kanabo instead of a changed secondary to fit the skin like a Labrys which I earlier suggested - so I refer back to one of my previous comments:
@Seiko300 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1588535#Comment_1588535
I absolutely agree, and I'm so sad, because I mentioned these things in the original description for this thread and then I lost everything. So unfortunately I just had to put up the poll question without the rest of the analysis and my thoughts on the subject.
But I did write a brief overview / summary of just a single part of what I said originally, on the other connected thread and because it applies to what you're talking about I'll copy and paste it for people to read on this thread here too (since it was originally part of this thread in the first place anyway).
Part of what I would have said / posted on this thread was that there's no visible increase in quality of these Legendary skins and that it seems as if only the bare minimum was done to qualify as a "legendary". That bare minimum being "changing the character entirely" so for Cheryl you turn into Lisa, for Oni it's turning into a minotaur. But even if that's the case, what's to separate these legendary skins from the very rare? Technically speaking they also "change the entire character" maybe not who they are necessarily but certainly almost the whole model, take Ice Cold Legacy outfit for Oni for example. His iron plated samurai armor is swapped for Wolfen Fur and Heavy Skulls, his mask is replaced with one completely unique that ends just under the eyes rather than covering his whole face, the hair is visibly changed and cut shorter, and of course he wields an entirely different more brutal weapon from the traditional Katana passed down from generations. This also technically changes the character entirely in a super badass way, and is a whole 5$ cheaper.
At that point that means BHVR is more "interested in selling us the idea of Legendary skins in name and in "rarity" rather than actually legendary quality skins". I mentioned that if you're going to make a legendary skin you need to go a step further, so for a killer much like a survivor, you should change their voice. Instead of hearing the war-cry of a legendary samurai warrior I should be hearing the bestial roar of the Minotaur, I should hear the animalistic breathing of the bull, instead of a Japanese Kanabo I suggested instead he should wield a Labrys (a double edged Axe), which not only is recognizable for a generic minotaur to wield in modern fantasy but also has a certain significance in Minoan Culture and Religion as the symbol was sacred in ancient Crete, the source of the legend of the Minotaur, Theseus, and King Minos. Another cool connection- even the word "Labyrinth" itself some scholars assert came from the word Labrys and thus would imply "house of the double axe". And since @VolantConch1719 mentioned it, changing the animations of the character as well from the unmistakably precise and controlled movements of a samurai to an unbridled and unrestrained beast let loose in the Fog. This should be reflected both in the weapon cooldown animation and idle animation like in the shop / character select screen.
These characteristics are what would elevate a skin from the premium very rare skins we've seen for the past 4 years, to something of a truly Legendary quality and standard which distinctly marks it as unique from the rest of the options available in the shop.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1588577#Comment_1588577
Another thing that I mentioned in what would have been in that original post was
"The way I see it, they have two options (other than ignoring these threads and in a perfect ethical world):
- Revisit these skins and touch them up to develop them and take them a step further to make them of a truly legendary quality and standard
- Reduce the price
As it stands we have no reason to believe that BHVR will do anything to change and improve these legendary skins, and therefore once again I repeat: they are only legendary in name and "rarity" not in quality.
I honestly do like Legendary skins, and I will submit it would be cool to have an actual minotaur character than a Minotaur skin. But I also believe it's not realistic, in the sense that with how many skins they release on the regular and how many legendaries they probably have planned, it wouldn't be reasonable to expect that every legendary could have become a character with their own perks or abilities.
With the development cycle of releasing a chapter every few months it would simply take too much time to make all these skins legendary characters and to entertain the possibility that we shouldn't have any legendary skins because they could have at some point been an actual compelling character is unreasonable. There's only so much time in the world and we can't have everything and at that point it's a decision of what to pick and choose, personally I would rather have a minotaur skin in the game than no minotaur at all. Because that's the choice we would eventually be confronted with after enough legendary skins have been pumped out, it won't just be two characters Lisa and The Minotaur it will probably be at least one for at least half the roster.
So legendaries do I think help in the sense that they expand the options of what exists in the game, things they can't make a full chapter or wouldn't have the opportunity or resources to make a full chapter could be great candidates for legendary skins.
However, as it stands there is not enough effort put into them to warrant their current price, hence the two options.
There is no significant visible increase / difference in quality between the current legendary skins we do have, and just the premium very rare cosmetics we've been getting over the past 4 years. Just because it says "legendary" doesn't mean it actually is and unfortunately it seems to be more of a marketing ploy than actual quality content.
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By far it would be one of the most exciting and my personal favorite licensed additions. The Xenomorph is such a cool, scary, intimidating addition, and it's so easy to imagine in Dead By Daylight, just think of Alien Isolation except you play as the Xenomorph walking around and hunting down a survivor instead
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@[Deleted User] said:
I have no interest in cosmetics. It could be the world's coolest cosmetic on sale for 50 cents and I wouldn't care. Even if you're into that, it's a slippery slope because there is always going to be another skin you're going to want. I'm not going to knock people for buying them because they're financing one of my favorite games, but still, there are way better ways to spend your money.
You wouldn't part with the two quarters you could find between the cushions in your couch for the world's coolest skin? I mean, what else are you planning on spending those two quarters on???
Lol, I know it sounds kind of nitpicky, but then again you're the one that gave such an extreme example..
Although I understand and kinda get what you're saying. The example you gave just seemed so stubborn though lol
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I assume we're talking about original chapters here and not including the licensed ones. I'll also exclude Ghostface despite having an original backstory, he's still technically a licensed character and not only that but he does have a lot of prior source material that the devs definitely took some inspiration from so I would make the claim even Ghostface's original backstory isn't entirely original to begin with anyway.
Although if I was including Ghostface, he'd be near the top, I've always loved the grounded concept and story of Ghostface as compared to the supernatural licensed killers like Michael Myers, Jason Voorhees, or Freddy Krueger. I think those characters are super cool, but there's definitely an extra layer of fear when it comes to stories that are realistic in the sense that they're possible, that they could have actually happened. Or more appropriately... could happen. I think that's pretty scary and messed up.
Similarly, because of this The Clown is my favorite killer lore wise, much like Ghostface he's definitely one of the more realistic and grounded characters of the killer cast. I love the aesthetic of the character, the theme of his chapter that plays, it's all super creepy and cool, it was such a missed opportunity to not have a traveling circus map with the Big Top or something.
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@Uistreel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1592971#Comment_1592971
No need to write an essay. Wraith isn't really that similar to gf you're right, but it's closer than the rest of the ones he probably has. You'll get a better understanding for stealth playing wraith than you would nurse or trapper
Fair enough.
Also I didn't mean to offend, I just write a lot, especially if I'm bored and have nothing else to do. (So don't tell me when I can and can't write an essay lol)
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Not only does he have the best cosmetics, Ghostface has the most cosmetics out of any licensed killer with access to 3 recolors (Red, White, and Blue [the white you only get by buying the full chapter]) and 4 premium cosmetics. With a fifth rumored as supposedly being on the way (I hear it's going to be a linked cosmetic set) I have really high hopes that it's going to be scarecrow ghostface. Imagine being Scarecrow Ghostface on a Coldwind farm map, that would be absolutely creepy as hell to go against, and would be super cool to play as.
I'm super glad that out of all the licenses, the business relationship between BHVR and RJ Torbert (license holder for Ghostface [costume]) is arguably the best and most mutually beneficial relationship in the game. I hear Fun World is working on making Ghostface costumes and outfits based on the ones DBD created (I think Devil-Face with the rain cape being one of them).
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@Uistreel said:
If you really like playing Oni then you'll probably like Myers more. If you really like playing another proper stealth killer (Wraith might be the only one you have, so him), then you'll probably like Ghostface more. If you enjoy both, I don't know. I can't tell you who is more fun because that is personal opinion, but Ghostface is definitely a stronger killer.
Although I can see the comparison between Oni and Myers I cannot imagine that Wraith is anywhere near comparable to Ghostface, aside from the fact at the most basic level they are both stealth killers, this is about where I would draw the line of similarities as ended. I would not use Wraith as a close comparison to Ghostface, from a personal standpoint, even though I'm a ghostface main and I don't like playing Wraith at all.
In fact now that I think about it I really don't like playing any of the other Stealth killers though I've always loved Stealth games and the stealth playstyle in general. This is because Ghostface is just so much better than every other stealth killer, every one of them has a weakness that GF does not suffer from
Wraith's aggressive potential is hindered in that he cannot immediately attack, he must first uncloak in order to strike. -> Ghostface's Night Shroud does not hinder any aggressive potential and he can immediately strike at any given moment
The Pig is hindered by limited visibility, and speed, the animation to enter her stealth through crouching takes time (however brief) for her to enter and exit, she is always forced to crouch low to the ground and therefore cannot see well in the already limited first person camera view hardly being able to look beyond tall grass and her crouch is 90% movement speed making it a hindrance to use traversing the map or in chases -> Ghostface can immediately enter night shroud at the click of a button, remains undetectable while standing preserving his visibility and LOS, and moves at the speed of a normal / faster 115% killer, while also being able to crouch immediately at will without an animation
Myers in EW1 is limited in that he has a slow start and is less than effective in normal chases that can be debilitating later on if you can't get to EW2, being forced to move at 105% movement speed and having a slightly decreased lunge, he also can never return to this state after he has entered Tier 2 -> Again, Ghostface has no decrease lunge and can swing as far as any other killer and moves at the same 115% as any other killer meaning even if he doesn't surprise anyone he can still immediately give chase with little trouble, and can enter stealth whenever he pleases throughout the match
In this way I'd really hardly compare Ghostface to any of the other Stealth killers beyond surface level tactics and points like they all benefit from Nurse's Calling or they can't be revealed by aura reading perks (except for Myers after entering Tier 2) like OoO. He plays so much more fluidly than the rest of them and there's no contest to why he's the best stealth killer of the current 4 that exist.
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I won't comment on the killer herself however I do want to add a quick little opinion about the story, you said she was born in 1987 but I think for a killer like this who is all about love and sexuality it would make a lot more sense for her story to take place during the 60's and / or 70's when Hippies were all the rage where America was in the process of a cultural upheaval and a Sexual Revolution after the invention of the Birth Control Pill it was iconically a time period "of free love and spirituality marked by the idea of multiple lovers".
I think for the story and for the type of killer who relies on promiscuity and sexuality (while she was alive anyway, and not in the realm of the entity. Of course in DBD she'll protentially look all corrupted and tormented like most of the killer cast [although there are a few who look unchanged because they entered willingly]) to lure her victims in before murdering them I think this period reflects that better and is therefore more fitting. That's just my two cents though
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As a (definitely unbiased) Ghostface main, I can tell you that strength wise as well as fun wise Ghostface is both more powerful and more interesting than Myers by miles. (As well more interesting to go up against as a survivor imo)
- The ability to turn undetectable at will is incredibly powerful and cannot be understated
- Facilitates really quick and clean guerrilla tactics of engaging and disengaging chases at a whim, catching survivors out either by surprise or defenseless in dead zones
- Can be used as an effective chase tool for mindgames to hide your red stain and get easy hits under pallets / windows from an angle the survivor you're chasing doesn't expect
- Nullifies all Aura reading perks like Dark Sense and Object of Obsession. Also serves as a counter to perks like Borrowed Time which are Terror Radius reliant (AKA a survivor must be in the killers Terror radius to receive it's benefits)
- While Myers does have some decent snowball potential Ghostface's own stalk is just as good if not superior because of multiple factors:
- How quickly you can pop it off
- You can pop it off an unlimited number of times on all survivors and you're not limited by the amount of "evil" within them like Myers is
- The fact that despite being able to stalk from the same distance Myers Stalk is actually is actually dependent on range- the closer he is to a survivor he is stalking the more efficient it is, whereas Ghostface's stalk has the same efficiency across the entire distance,
- Ghostface can also replicate Myers map-wide exposed effect by stalking and exposing multiple survivors at one time, for example if they are all healing in the same place or working on the same generator
- Etc.
The only thing I'll say about Myers is that he's easier to use because you have your power all the time, and therefore much more noob-friendly to new players who have yet to tinker around with either of the stalk-y boys. So if he's easier to use, you might actually see more success with Myers than with Ghostface, however I think as you continue to play you'll start to realize the limitations of Myers and situations where Ghostface could excel where Myers simply can't. Myers being an m1 killer all the time whereas Ghostface is only an m1 killer some of the time when his power is down (fight me on the definition of an M1 killer, I dare you).
Also, and I don't want to brag, but Ghostface currently has the most cosmetics out of any Licensed killer. With 3 recolors (Red, White [which you only get by purchasing the full chapter, not just the killer by himself with auric cells], and blue) and 4 premium outfits which IMO all look great and also includes the original Father Death Shroud and super pale white mask from the original movies. There are rumors he will be receiving an additional outfit (I've heard this one is going to be a linked Cosmetic Set) soon so make that 5 premium outfits. And we all know cosmetics = skill so this is basically just a point that objectively proves Ghostface's superiority and dominance in this competition.
- The ability to turn undetectable at will is incredibly powerful and cannot be understated
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Gonna play Devil's Advocate here, just because the poll was worded poorly. At a very basic level Dead By Daylight is entirely functional, and I assume what OP was referring to was the number of bugs they'd like to see reduced rather than implying that people couldn't actually physically run the game or play it.
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@SaltedSnow said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1590208#Comment_1590208
You're slightly misleading what Detectives actually does, it reveals generators, chests, and totems, so not only does it help you find that hidden Devour or the ruin eating away at your gen times, it also lets you spot disasterous scenarios such as 3gens no matter the map. Spotting the chests is quite nice too as a small bonus, though easily the weakest part of the 3.
I am entirely aware of what Detective's Hunch does, however, the way OP framed his thread implies "I played at high ranks (because of a friend in SWF who boosted me), with Detective's Hunch on, and because of this I was able to deal with NOED 90% of the time". I didn't write that, he did, and therefore the implication of the claim still stands. "Because I was running DH, I was able to deal with NOED" how the hell else am I supposed to interpret "I played with Detective's Hunch on rank 1. I dealt with NOED in 19/20 games." There is a very clear and blatant cause and effect being described here or at the very, very, very least a correlation that is being hinted at.
@CalamityJane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1590208#Comment_1590208
It's not required. You can learn totem spots fairly easily and do them most games. If every survivor does 1-2 totems per match, noed is just gone. It's completely down to laziness that noed is strong and somewhat reliable.
Detective's Hunch only gives you security and peace of mind when the other 3 survivors are lazy.
I already pointed out my wording and spelled out that I didn't actually mean it was required, thank you for ignoring me.
That being said I would argue no, it's not down to laziness at all. Maybe in casual games at mid-ranks or in low ranks where people don't know what they're doing it is, but in Red Ranks where people are constantly going sweaty and hard in many of their matches this is simply not true. When the killer is actually doing a decent job at applying pressure, winning and ending chases, slowing or even stopping gen progression completely, telling any survivor to stop what they're doing and go look around the map for dull totems based on the off-chance that NOED exists is extremely debilitating.
And that's the part you're purposefully leaving out, when either the killer has the upper hand, or even when both the killer and survivors are equally contesting the match, going on a crusade to destroy each and every totem on the map can and will simply eat away at too much of the survivors time and potentially is a decision that could cost survivors the match. That is precious time you're not spending repairing generators, saving teammates off hooks, or healing teammates to full health states. Not to mention, on certain maps more than others Totem spots are well hidden and can be incredibly difficult to find: maps like the Red Forest which are huge, maps like Swamp which are cluttered with all manner of reeds and other assets, indoor maps like lery's where the rooms are basically a maze also creates difficulty. Meaning more time just looking for these dull totems, again with no clear indicator of whether or not you're actually achieving anything- perhaps the killer isn't even running NOED at all and you just placed your teammates into a dangerous situation and costing everyone the match because one or two players mismanaged their time looking for dull totems.
To which I would expect someone will reply to me: "oh! But you can just use Detective's Hunch or Small Game on those maps to make finding totems easier and more quickly" to which I will immediately repeat my earlier statement: the fact that a perk would need to be required and thus a perk slot wasted just to deal with another badly designed perk is extremely dumb. So you pick and choose what you're trying to say because you can't tell me both without a contradiction: either perks like Detective's Hunch aren't required and all totems can still be cleansed easily on all maps without the perk, or Detective's Hunch is required and thus survivors are forced to waste a perk slot every match.
On that note even if you were able to prove to me that dealing with NOED is not difficult, that still doesn't detract from my point that NOED is a poorly designed perk in the first place. Regardless of whether or not you can deal with it, it doesn't change the fact that it's a perk that provides a powerful effect rewarding players who have done nothing. The distinction being made here is that it provides a powerful effect, and the player running it did absolutely nothing to earn it. As opposed to other Hex: Perks like Devour Hope, Ruin, Huntress Lullaby, all of these require that some effort be put into the match in order to reap their benefits not to mention that these actually carry the risk of being cleansed at any moment during the match. Whereas there is very little risk to running NOED as the first time you're made aware of it is by the time it's already in play applying pressure. So already NOED is fundamentally flawed at a very basic level, even without the problems created by "do we cleanse and lose the match or not cleanse and hope for the best".
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But the mere fact that a perk is required (not necessarily "required" but for the sake of my point I'm using the word despite that not being exactly what I mean) for you to deal with noed at all is extremely dumb. As a general point of reference - perks whose sole purpose are to counter other perks are notoriously unfun to use, why should you have to waste a perk slot just to deal with a different perk that is horribly designed.
Nope, no thanks. I maintain my stance that these old world perks like NOED and Decisive Strike need to be reworked ASAP and in their current state have no place in the modern game in 2020.
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@Slashstreetboy said:
I´d also appreciate if they had a more unique appearance. Just a slightly changed model without any new animations or sounds (looking at minotaur oni) is NOT enough to justify such a hefty price.
I absolutely agree, and I'm so sad, because I mentioned these things in the original description for this thread and then I lost everything. So unfortunately I just had to put up the poll question without the rest of the analysis and my thoughts on the subject.
But I did write a brief overview / summary of just a single part of what I said originally, on the other connected thread and because it applies to what you're talking about I'll copy and paste it for people to read on this thread here too (since it was originally part of this thread in the first place anyway).
Part of what I would have said / posted on this thread was that there's no visible increase in quality of these Legendary skins and that it seems as if only the bare minimum was done to qualify as a "legendary". That bare minimum being "changing the character entirely" so for Cheryl you turn into Lisa, for Oni it's turning into a minotaur. But even if that's the case, what's to separate these legendary skins from the very rare? Technically speaking they also "change the entire character" maybe not who they are necessarily but certainly almost the whole model, take Ice Cold Legacy outfit for Oni for example. His iron plated samurai armor is swapped for Wolfen Fur and Heavy Skulls, his mask is replaced with one completely unique that ends just under the eyes rather than covering his whole face, the hair is visibly changed and cut shorter, and of course he wields an entirely different more brutal weapon from the traditional Katana passed down from generations. This also technically changes the character entirely in a super badass way, and is a whole 5$ cheaper.
At that point that means BHVR is more "interested in selling us the idea of Legendary skins in name and in "rarity" rather than actually legendary quality skins". I mentioned that if you're going to make a legendary skin you need to go a step further, so for a killer much like a survivor, you should change their voice. Instead of hearing the war-cry of a legendary samurai warrior I should be hearing the bestial roar of the Minotaur, I should hear the animalistic breathing of the bull, instead of a Japanese Kanabo I suggested instead he should wield a Labrys (a double edged Axe), which not only is recognizable for a generic minotaur to wield in modern fantasy but also has a certain significance in Minoan Culture and Religion as the symbol was sacred in ancient Crete, the source of the legend of the Minotaur, Theseus, and King Minos. Another cool connection- even the word "Labyrinth" itself some scholars assert came from the word Labrys and thus would imply "house of the double axe". And since @VolantConch1719 mentioned it, changing the animations of the character as well from the unmistakably precise and controlled movements of a samurai to an unbridled and unrestrained beast let loose in the Fog. This should be reflected both in the weapon cooldown animation and idle animation like in the shop / character select screen.
These characteristics are what would elevate a skin from the premium very rare skins we've seen for the past 4 years, to something of a truly Legendary quality and standard which distinctly marks it as unique from the rest of the options available in the shop.
@VolantConch1719 said:
I just really don't like the idea of legendary skins. I get it for licensed characters, as it allows us to go further into those licenses (which they are doing with Silent Hill because Konami clearly realizes there's a gold mine here). Tapp could become Matthews or Rigg (who he should have been to begin with, but whatever) for example. Amanda could become Hoffman or Kramer himself. I still wouldn't buy them despite my preference because I don't like spending money on cosmetics in any game, but I can understand doing it for them.
Legendary skins for original characters, regardless of whether they are Auric cell only or can be bought with shards, should never be considered. Sure, with Felix it might give us his father, but then it just takes away from Felix himself. And then you have the Killers that actually matter. I don't care how cool the minotaur skin for Oni is, at the end of the day, it just Oni in a costume because there is no difference. The Minotaur uses the same kanabo, absorbs the same blood, uses a xiphos that looks oddly like a katana, does the same Japanese honor stances Oni does when hitting a Survivor, and the list goes on. It's not a minotaur, it's just Oni pretending to be Greek for a day.
And on top of that, because the skin exists, we now have ZERO chance at getting a REAL minotaur Killer. While I don't feel like a minotaur would have made a great idea for a Killer, now we'll never know if it could have worked because Oni is playing dress-up over there. That's the worst part of this: Legendary Skins take ideas for what could potentially be great Killers and Survivors and puts them on already existing characters, regardless of whether or not it makes sense to begin with.
And that's why I don't like legendary skins and will NEVER support them in this game. They take away from the actual characters (ESPECIALLY original characters) that we have already and ruins chances at characters that could be really cool.
If you support legendary skins, good for you. I can't, and never will.
Another thing that I mentioned in what would have been in that original post was
"The way I see it, they have two options (other than ignoring these threads and in a perfect ethical world):
- Revisit these skins and touch them up to develop them and take them a step further to make them of a truly legendary quality and standard
- Reduce the price
As it stands we have no reason to believe that BHVR will do anything to change and improve these legendary skins, and therefore once again I repeat: they are only legendary in name and "rarity" not in quality.
I honestly do like Legendary skins, and I will submit it would be cool to have an actual minotaur character than a Minotaur skin. But I also believe it's not realistic, in the sense that with how many skins they release on the regular and how many legendaries they probably have planned, it wouldn't be reasonable to expect that every legendary could have become a character with their own perks or abilities.
With the development cycle of releasing a chapter every few months it would simply take too much time to make all these skins legendary characters and to entertain the possibility that we shouldn't have any legendary skins because they could have at some point been an actual compelling character is unreasonable. There's only so much time in the world and we can't have everything and at that point it's a decision of what to pick and choose, personally I would rather have a minotaur skin in the game than no minotaur at all. Because that's the choice we would eventually be confronted with after enough legendary skins have been pumped out, it won't just be two characters Lisa and The Minotaur it will probably be at least one for at least half the roster.
So legendaries do I think help in the sense that they expand the options of what exists in the game, things they can't make a full chapter or wouldn't have the opportunity or resources to make a full chapter could be great candidates for legendary skins.
However, as it stands there is not enough effort put into them to warrant their current price, hence the two options.
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Well we all know there is only one chosen one. The Savior of Humanity:
Ashley J. ######### Williams.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJA3KVrwgs8Groovy
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If the devs can and would be willing to do a Dead Space chapter they can and should be willing to do an Alien chapter featuring the Xenomorph as the killer.
Nothing against Dead Space I hear it's a truly horrifying game, but I really feel that the first true Sci-Fi horror representative should be in the form of Alien just because it's so iconic and so deeply tied to the history of horror movies and horror in film in general. Which is mostly what DBD calls back to (although yes, they are trying to branch out [likely only because they'll eventually run out of popular horror movie licenses])
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@SCP_FOR_DBD said:
I bought Lisa because she looks like if they just made a character but didn't give them perks. I didn't buy the Minotaur because Oni screams that corners were cut and little effort was made, I mean, why the hell does a minotaur sound like a feudal samurai? And why do they wield a japanese kanobo (I think I spelled that right)? The only thing Lisa re uses is cheryls voice, which I don't have nearly as big a problem with cause they're both at least the same gender. The idea of legendary skins are cool but I could buy either Silent Hill chapter for 7$, which comes with perks and a killer, or I could spend 15$ on a skin. I had a very hard time justifying why I should buy Lisa, but I had no incentive for Oni.
I'm so sad, I mentioned all these things especially the cut corners in the other thread and then I lost everything. So I regretfully just had to purely post the other polls question without everything else.
But since you brought it up I'll go ahead and say I completely agree with you on the "Cut Corners". Part of what I would have said / posted on the other thread was that there's no visible increase in quality of these Legendary skins and that it seems like only the bare minimum was done to qualify as a "legendary". That bare minimum being "changing the character entirely" so for Cheryl you turn into Lisa, for Oni it's turning into a minotaur. Otherwise, what's to separate these legendary skins from the very rare? Technically speaking they also "change the entire character" maybe not who they are but certainly almost the whole model, take Ice Cold Legacy outfit for Oni for example. His iron plated samurai armor is swapped for Wolfen Fur and Heavy Skulls, his mask is replaced with one completely unique that ends just under the eyes, the hair is visibly changed, and of course he wields a different weapon. This also technically changes the character entirely in a super badass way, and is a whole 5$ cheaper.
At that point that means BHVR is more "interested in selling us the idea of Legendary skins in name and in "rarity" rather than actually legendary quality skins". I mentioned that if you're going to make a legendary skin you need to go a step further, so for a killer much like a survivor, you should change their voice. Instead of hearing the war-cry of a legendary samurai warrior I should be hearing the bestial roar of the Minotaur, I should hear the animalistic breathing of the bull, instead of a Japanese Kanabo I suggested instead he should wield a Labrys (a double edged Axe), which not only is recognizable for a generic minotaur to wield in modern fantasy but also has a certain significance in Minoan Culture and Religion as the symbol was sacred in ancient Crete, the source of the legend of the Minotaur, Theseus, and King Minos. Another cool connection- even the word "Labyrinth" itself some scholars assert came from the word Labrys and thus would imply "house of the double axe"
These characteristics are what would elevate a skin from the premium very rare skins we've seen for the past 4 years, to something of a truly Legendary quality and standard which distinctly marks it as unique from the rest of the options available in the shop.
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@Raven014 said:
The obvious answer is Clown.
This. The rest of ya'll are crazy, clown is the only acceptable answer here.
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Everyone else: *pushing up glasses and scoffs* Where did you get that idea? I'm a professional Demogorgon who goes on 4k winning streaks at rank 1 daily, Demo's Shred is the ultimate weapon in his kit and arguably one of the best aggressive chase tools out of any killer because of it's mindgame potential, and synergy with a single perk (STBFL) which is definitely all he needs (if ur any good at the game! lol!!), both of which apply intense pressure at loops forcing survivors to abandon them or get hit. I rate this bait thread 70,000 out of 10 professional bait, this guy is clearly trolling or has absolutely no idea what he's talking about- Mods, get him outta here.
This guy:
Love him or hate him, he's not wrong on at least one point, Demogogorn is basically an extinct species and I do not care about whether or not you main him or how well you can use him to 4k, you are most certainly the minority / outliers in the playerbas. Hardly anyone is using this killer and this is indisputable, regardless of your personal performance.
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Nerf? You're hilarious, he is the way he is because he was buffed after a full blown rework. Definitely no rework.
Honestly, the best approach for this chase strong killers is just to not get chased at all. Can't go down if you haven't been found. So best bet is to tap into your inner claudette and go sweaty immersed.
If you are found, milk your window loops as much as possible as those are safer than pallets since he'll just cut through them and you won't gain much distance, or even worse you basically tie both reaching the pallet at the same time but killer hits take priority over pallet stuns so you get downed anyway. So super safe window loops around central buildings and other strong window loops where he's forced to act as an m1 with little to no chance to use his chainsaw are what you want to go for.
But like someone else said earlier don't be greedy, use your loops to their fullest potential but no second chances against an LF with his chainsaw at the ready. So if you feel you might be taking a hit on the next loop better to just make the vault / drop the pallet for the few extra seconds of safety they'll provide you.
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Both. Just to be doubly sure
Lol
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It depends on what I'm going for, what the purpose of my build is, but generally speaking when I am running any aura revealing perks (Bond, Empathy, Aftercare) I use the latter just as much as I use the former two. The condition to heal someone or be healed is extremely easy to meet, and I don't think the perk gets enough credit for that as far as activating criteria goes across the board in terms of perks, and because of this the aura reading may as well be considered just as "guaranteed" as perks like Bond or Empathy. Even if it does reset throughout the match it's almost never an issue to find another survivor and heal them or be healed.
Especially for the vastly greater information you receive from the perk, seeing everyone across the entire map is especially useful for solo players. Consistent and ever-present information on where to get a heal, when to go for a save, which generators to do (do you want to rush a single gen with teammates or do you want to stay spread out and purposefully work on gens they're not on?), AND where the killer is by reading the body language / actions of your fellow teammates (who's fast vaulting, who suddenly stopped working on a generator and walked away, who is crouching around an object trying to hide, etc.)
The advantages of Aftercare over the other two cannot be understated, all for the small effort of healing someone or finding someone to heal you.
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Of course the edit is going to be better, you're literally taking the already created DBD model and improving upon it, rather than straight up creating your own character model.
Although I do agree about the neck thing. That being said we're still waiting on Quentin's face rework first (and Steve Harrington's voice over starring his actual actor Joe Keery second).
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Myers might need a change, but Clown needs one MUCH more desperately.
Clown being the primary candidate for changes, but not just him, Legion, Pig, Plague, all these characters need to be updated far more significantly and drastically than Myers. What Myers needs is a few minor touch ups and a few small buffs to nudge him into a slightly more viable position, but for the most part, he's in a somewhat decent place.
People have come up with some really good buff ideas for Myers before and I'm certainly open to them because they're really good ideas, but it's about time and place. Myers is not the priority and I would say he's about halfway down the list, especially below the characters I already listed.
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No matter how many times the community brings this up this is ALWAYS going to be a loaded question.
The presumption being that the developers are actively choosing one over the other, when in fact this is not true. The dev team is split up in such a way that they are working on multiple things at the same time, the people working on bugs, maintenance, and game health, are not the people working on new chapters.
More importantly, the people who work on new chapters will likely almost never ever be working on game health, this is because the people who work on new chapters are Artists who work on creating the concept art / character models / cosmetics / animations for new characters, Writers who lay out the story and lore behind the DBD universe and the characters therein, sound designers who record all the audio bits that make up new characters and their abilities, music for the theme of the new chapter, etc.
These people are great at their jobs and most everybody will tell you they do a phenomenal job of bringing these characters and chapters to life, but the fact is you would not want them anywhere near programming, bugs, and general "game health" related issues or improvements. Simply because and this is kinda obvious: that's not their #########' job.
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I like that it offers a little bit of both. It's because it offers both that it's a really decent perk, and it doesn't really make sense to me to choose between the two when they're both present in the perk.
I mean, that's why I like running it in the first place.
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I think that's more reflective of how stupidly broken Keys are rather than a problem with the hatch mechanic itself.
The offering is fine, the keys are not.
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BUFF. CLOWN. PLEASE.
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No thanks, I'm not interested in seeing survivors becoming killers. Though it might seem like a cool idea conceptually, in practice, unless some EXTREMELY drastic changes were made I would not be able to take characters like Claudette or Dwight seriously as killers.
Really anyone on the entire roster would be ridiculous. Including Nea.
I like the characters as we have them.
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^ This answer is all I gotta say
No further comment
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@smappdooda said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1570981#Comment_1570981
Can someone put this wet blanket in the dryer please?
Considering we're talking about a fairly serious issue, no, I would not call him a wet blanket. Your joke wasn't remotely funny it was just wordplay, even if it was a laughing matter, it fell completely flat. Own up to it.
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If totems were mechanically and fundamentally changed as I've suggested numerous times then maybe it's possible.
A suggestion I really like is one that prevents the nightmare scenario of every killer running any Hex: Perk (that isn't Haunted Grounds or something) which is the idea of "deployable hex's". Basically whenever you start the trial with a Hex: Perk in your loadout the auras of all totems are revealed and at the beginning of the match you can scout out the best totem spawns and spots and choose which totem your Hex is attached to (of course this comes with the trade-off of potentially wasting time at the beginning not defending gens or chasing survivors, as well if you act predictable survivors can catch you in the act and know exactly where that Hex is).
When approaching a totem depending on what slot it's in (1,2,3, or 4) you press that number key and the Hex: Perk is attached potentially after a short animation and the flame underneath it is suddenly lit. After which point it acts like normal and can be cleansed / destroyed at any time.
This would also be interesting to potentially create a new dynamic of introducing Hex: Perks towards the middle / late parts of the match.
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Jeepers Creepers will never be in the game and I hate having to rehash why to new players every time the character is brought up.
The short of it is that the guy who owns the license for Jeepers Creepers, Director or whoever he is, is a convicted Pedophile / Molester / Sexual Predator or something. Because of this he is not someone Behaviour, OR it's developers want to do any business alongside or be affiliated with in any way, shape, form or fashion. Another way I heard it put is he is simply not someone they would ever want to give money to (because that's how this works, the devs buy the license in order to use the character).
I could be wrong but I faintly recall the devs themselves commenting on this prospect a long time ago, Mathieu Cote himself called the guy straight up "disgusting".
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@Fiv55 said:
well there is no "balanced" option, considering that 4/6 options are OP and 2/6 are basicly "trash".
A good nurse has a lot of pressure and mobility, but also a lot of counter play. Imo she's fun to play against, but I'm really bad at playing her.
^ This
I'm not sure I really liked any of these options
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@SCP_FOR_DBD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1563141#Comment_1563141
Its fine, You make many a fair point. I got dared to make a concept based on The Entity and wanted to give the ability to control the map and represent the hope aspect of its lore. I can definitely see why it wouldn't work.
Lol I see, understandable.
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@SCP_FOR_DBD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1563041#Comment_1563041
So is the only problem the lore? And not a problem with the powerz?
I didn't actually take too much time to think about the power you provided, I think the story problem itself presents a big enough issue to disregard the idea entirely even without consideration to the power. EDIT: Meaning, it doesn't matter what power you give the Entity even if its a good one, it's not a good idea, for reasons previously mentioned.
However,
Just looking at the power itself it doesn't look to be a very fun or unique concept. The entity itself looks like an M1 killer who can create a wall every 30 seconds, and it's not like as a survivor there's much counterplay to that it's either you run around any walls placed (which makes The Entity a pure M1 killer if you keep misplacing walls) or you get ######### over by a properly placed wall and there's not much a survivor can do about that.
Power 2 is just as bad if not worse because it's a passive ability, and as history has pointed out - previous examples such as Pre-rework Freddy or Pre Rework Doctor, passive is not fun. (Although there are still some lingering examples of killers with passive abilities or passive aspects to their abilities, these in my opinion require reworks just like the aforementioned killers [cough PLAGUE cough])
Don't mean to be a negative nancy and just crap all over the idea, but it is what it is, I'm just being honest.
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It would absolutely make a great addition to Dead By Daylight, I honestly think it'd be one of the most interesting and impactful additions to Dead By Daylight in a long, long, time and for future chapters to come only second to maybe an F13 chapter starring Jason Voorhees (regardless of your opinion on the character, it is undeniable that he is one of if not the most recognizable and popular slasher villains of all time. Hence why they made a game entirely about him [which completely flopped, but due to poor developer decisions and the lawsuit, not because there was something wrong with the license or concept]).
What I think is important about the Xenomorph license is that it's a pure blooded Sci-Fi Horror. And this is important because Dead By Daylight is an amalgamation, of different Horror genres and stories therein, but that doesn't mean they've actually got a representative chapter for every horror genre. We've seen stuff across the board: Chapters of Your traditional slasher, Psychological horror, Body Horror, Holiday Horror, Supernatural Horror, Folk Horror, Comedy Horror, etc.
But we have yet to see a single chapter let alone chapters plural, of two prominent genres. Sci-Fi Horror and Gothic Horror. Which is extremely odd because of the prominence of both in the horror genre as a whole, especially the former, which is one of the oldest and most popular kinds of horror. From Frankenstein's monster to aliens. Which is why I think the addition of an Alien chapter featuring the Xenomorph would be an excellent chapter as it would finally tick the Sci-Fi chapter off the DBD bucket list.
The only reason I can imagine people don't think Xenomorph would come into the game is the confusion created about the map that would be shipped with the chapter. Apparently the devs said at one point in time they'd never do a map in space or anything, which is fine because they still could create maps based on Prometheus or something else rather than Sevastopol station or the Nostromo. This issue of creating a map could also be resolved by just not having one and creating a paragraph chapter featuring just the Xenomorph, or create the first chapter that is just a Survivor and Killer with no map (rewind back to how Ghostface is still technically chapter 12 without a Survivor OR a map, so this could realistically be done.)
As a last talking point, now that Demogorgon is in the game as a humanoid Alien-like creature, there is no excuse not to have the original Alien itself - the perfect organism - the Xenomorph.
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@lordtomato said:
The entity
Power - I am the master
Have the entire view of the map, you can just tap a survivor and kill them like when endgame time runs out.
Perk 1 - I am op - You can control anything you want, you can tap everything to block them forever.
Perk 2 - Map balanced = If you get into some good survivor map like cornfield you can just change the map into hawkins lab.
Perk 3 - Wallhack - You can see all survivors' auras
The entiTY IS OP, the entiTY IS BAD
Basically this.
There is no reason to have the mastermind behind it all, actually be playable. That completely ruins the story and lore they've been setting up over the past 4 years.
If anything, if they ever did this, it would be as their very LAST chapter. Like, when DBD is finally on the decline and they no longer want or cannot feasibly continue to support the game. They make one final chapter, one final archives, tying loose ends and wrapping up the story as best as possible as one final hurrah and great finale to send off the game to be shelved in history (although they'd probably keep the servers running as long as they could). That is the only time this would ever work, and in every other case this would be a flat out bad idea, at the very very least from a story perspective. Which doesn't matter to everyone, but it does matter to a decent chunk of the playerbase myself included, and it certainly matters to the developers themselves.
And I can assure you, considering that they're investing time and money into a graphic overhaul and it is confirmed they are getting the game on next gen. consoles like PS5 and Xbox series X, that time isn't coming anytime soon.
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@xxDeathwishDW said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1559796#Comment_1559796
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1559910#Comment_1559910
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1560014#Comment_1560014
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1560092#Comment_1560092
So, I'm just gonna do it a VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY AND VERY long cooldown.
Honestly, the point I was trying to make was that any cooldown is simply not enough to balance this idea. You'd definitely have to go the route of Dying Light to balance that perk, where not everybody is affected by something.
In this case, this perk would probably be a one time use perk on only one person. Whoever was affected by it would become the obsession. After they are affected by it they would receive buffs to healing speed and repair speed or something like that to compensate for being hit with such a devastating blow (loss of an entire hook state).
Even then,
it's not the greatest idea. But it's the only way I could see it being even remotely possible / balanced / working
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It'd be pretty incredible, I won't lie.
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@TotemsCleanser said:
Honestly not sure but definitely not Steve lol he sounds so dumb
Dude, I was about to say, "whoever it is, it definitely ain't Steve"
Steve sounds like complete garbo. I really wish they'll revisit the character to do a complete voice over starring the real actor Joe Keery instead of whatever booty voice they got for him now
Maybe around the same time that they rework Quentin's face.
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That is ridiculously unbalanced, the notion that a mere 3 minute cooldown is enough to make this balanced is completely outlandish.
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He's supposedly "one of the most balanced killers in the game" which can dominate when played properly, but honestly, the fact that there seem to be almost no demogorgon's around casts some serious shadows of doubt on how viable he truly is.
Seriously, I see Nurse more often than I see Demogorgon. And people still ride the "nobody plays Nurse" train to death yet Demogorgon is literally an extinct species. I've seen one in like 2 months.
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Bro, Steve from Minecraft is more appealing than Springtrap (as of writing) lmao