Seiko300
Seiko300
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I actually had an idea, or rather an addition on top of an idea that I heard before that I actually thought was pretty interesting that answers (at least partially) a few different issues at once. Addressing problems like generators being rushed too quickly, and providing survivors with new objectives that switches up some stale gameplay (or at least stale objectives).
I think many of us have heard the idea of having missing parts from generators. It was an idea created to prevent survivors from rushing two or three generators at once in the beginning of the match when a Killer has no pressure, is busy setting up, or just couldn't find or catch anybody for any particular reason. So you have a generator you want to fix, you need to find the corresponding part that generator is missing which is somewhere on the map, pick it up and attach it on the generator before you can start repairing. You cannot begin repairing generators without the corresponding part that they're missing.
It's a decent idea especially for what it is intended to do. Prevent nightmare scenarios of one or more generators popping at the start of a match when chases haven't even begun yet. Other than this it sounds like a great way to shake things up, give survivors a bit more to do, and slow down the fast from the get-go pace of the game. Although I think it falls a bit short of making the game engaging, since it creates the possibility where that just becomes a pre-game stage, where survivors don't do gens but instead find all the parts and attach them to all the generators before repairing anything, and then afterward DBD v1.0 of just doing generators and nothing else that's different really happens or changes later throughout the entirety of the rest of the match. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's a perfect and solid idea most everybody can get on board with but here's how I would change it:
Instead what I think should happen is move this requirement to the 50% mark of generators, so after you've repaired a generator half-way you're hard-capped. The generator can't be further repaired until you get the necessary part that it's missing. What this does is it shifts the emphasis on changing and slowing down the early game and more just the overall gen. rush. This provides the killer with a short window of opportunity to defend and regress the generator before the part gets to the generator. The part only appears after 50% of the generator has been repaired, at which point even if the generator is regressed the part can be installed whenever so that the generator can be finished and fully repaired.
7 generators on the map total so there are 7 different parts that will be created, each has a different animation for installing them. Instead of the traditional normal "hold Mouse 1" of Dead By Daylight fashion, the process for installing these parts will be Among Us inspired-styled mini-games and puzzles, since there's only seven they'll likely be more complicated and take more time, but don't worry about being expected to to finish a super lengthy or complicated task they should be somewhat more or less straight forward and not be super time consuming.
Of course the option is always open to make these traditional normal "hold mouse 1" actions if people are more comfortable with that, but I figured that this would be far more interesting and appealing to players who want to switch things up after years of holding m1 already.
If a survivor carrying one of these parts is downed, I'm caught between deciding whether or not the part is consumed by the entity and re-placed in a different part of the map, or if the part stays where it is, tumbled out of the survivor's grasp and laying there on the ground wherever their body fell.
Anyway, it's just an idea I think is really interesting and worth looking into to switch things up in the fog.
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@SCP_FOR_DBD said:
I have no ill will towards bill and ted. I just think it'd be better if we stuck to stuff with horror themes and elements.
I absolutely agree, at the very, very, least Dead By Daylight is a horror themed game. That's how it should stay.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
Now, LBH, the reason people whine how these to are 'boring' 'OP' etc is because people can not go for their stale, boring, overdone routine in a match.
Look at it. Since the early days people are playing the exact same against every killer, regardless of ability or map possibilities:
engage in chase, loop, flashlight, teabag, gen-rush. rinse and repeat.
Sadly a lot of killers do their bidding and play a style to compliment this: don't really use your abilities, be an m1 killer, don't break chases off, get gen-rushed.
Deathslinger and PH put a stop to the whole nonsense, and survivor players hate that.
So, what we need isn't to nerf these killer to pamper bratty, uncreative survivors, we need more killers than can cut chases short, that can't be looped as easily, hell, that maybe even benefit from breaking off chases.
Give us a plant based killer who can trap survivors actively by growing traps in their path, give us the spring-heeled jack who can soar into the survivor's paths and over pallets and low walls... give us variety.
I'd have to disagree, though I can entirely agree with your broader point that we want and need killers that continue to challenge survivors and the survivor meta are the things what we want to see and what keeps the game interesting, I believe that killers like these specifically are not the kind of prototype or foundational basis we want to base future killer designs off of.
This killer design specifically, being that of killers with only powerful chase tools, with very little to no map mobility, map pressure, or other utility. That's where I think the Deathslinger and Pyramid Head comparison comes from. They're both known primarily for their powerful chase tools rather than their, for lack of a better word, less prominent tools they might have like decreased TR for the former and trails of torment / cage of atonement for the latter.
Instead what I think is a great example of good design is The Blight. That's the kind of thing that we should be looking toward as good design, a killer who's ability is used primarily for something other than chases (in his case Map Traversal and Map Mobility) but can also be used in chases to deadly effect (with enough practice). Blight is not an easy killer to play by any means, he honestly gives Nurse a run for her money as most difficult killer in the entire game (though I think she's still more difficult than Blight for reasons I won't go into now) but with enough practice and skill he is leagues better than either Deathslinger or Pyramid Head.
This is the crux of what make Deathslinger and Pyramid Head to a certain degree, un-fun. While this applies to a lesser extent to Deathslinger it is certainly very obvious for Pyramid Head. There is nothing particularly skillful about waiting for a survivor to become locked in animation, under threat of force with M1 otherwise if they don't, so you can use punishment of the damned when they drop or vault a pallet or window. Imo, telling the community this shouldn't be nerfed or changed in any way, comes off just as much an attempt to "pamper bratty, uncreative killers" as survivors who want to continue to be allowed free reign through their boring meta of DS, Unbreakable, OoO, etc. It looks just as bad on killers as it does on survivors, and you aren't doing yourselves any favors by trying to push forward such a blatantly fallible argument. (The glories of playing both sides so that I can make fun of both sides, amazing).
I'll submit that this isn't as obvious for Deathslinger, (though I will point out Deathslinger can pull off nearly the same maneuver as Pyramid Head at windows [just not at pallets]) it certainly takes more skill since more often than not you're trying to hit a moving target. But considering Deathslinger's ridiculously high ADS time which provides his ability to quickscope, aiming down sights in less than a second and with absolutely no restriction in doing so it feels very much like the same or at the very least a very similar situation. Where survivors have extremely little to no opportunity for counterplay, and they're left basically just hoping that the Deathslinger misses.
In both cases this is by no means good design, arguably it's not horribly awful balance because Deathslinger and Pyramid Head are far from overbearing killers at the top of tier lists that dominate every match it's certainly possible for them to lose. However design in gaming or at least in this case and context refers to how successful in terms of fun it is and the fact of the matter is- it's not.
It's not exactly a debatable point that having killers with little to no counter-play (dropping pallets early is hardly counterplay all by itself, these are limited aside from outpacing them in terms of generators is good for the game or fun. All this does is encourage players to finish their games faster, and faster, and faster, as more and more killers and survivors race against each other to see who can finish more hooks or generators first. Most obviously, this isn't a fun choice in terms of direction to deliberately head the meta toward for anybody. Hence why I hope Deathslinger and Pyramid Head will be tweaked (not NERFED, just tweaked and reworked), and we won't see killers who rely purely on poorly designed powerful chase tools, instead we'll see even stronger and more viable killers who have access to other utility that makes them better and more fun to play against.
I know I came a bit late to this thread (posting on page 3) but I hope I could change some minds / turn a few heads with this post anybody.
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I like both and I use both about as frequently as the other, although if I have to choose between one or the other it'll be bbq.
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Imo, when it comes to survivors it's more of a "give it time" type of thing. The people who will main Felix are likely new players who will look at the entire roster on an equal playing field rather than veterans who are already committed to a main. As far as I can tell, most people don't actually switch their mains (unless something like their favorite licensed character is introduced) so we're waiting for new players to really sink their teeth into the new chapter before we see a steady number of Felix mains.
Just my thoughts on it.
That being said, I like the character and his perks quite a bit. He's definitely in my top 5 of survivors to play and eventually at some point I'll probably P3 him. Ace (my main), Ash, Steve, Jeff, and Felix are the characters you'll see me circulating on a regular basis (and of course whoever I have a daily for or archive challenges to complete which typically takes precedence over anything else most of the time, so I swap around quite a bit).
@CheeseAnton said:
Ace is hotter.
BIG FACTS.
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@ekto said:
because his death in the real world marked the start of his new life in the entity's realm
Makes sense, I like this answer the most out of the three posted so far.
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I'm not trying to see DBD turn into an all-out anime so I hope not. I'm personally not interested in a third Yamoaka.
I think it's far more interesting conceptually when DBD constantly strives to make their characters unique as possible from all different kinds of cultures where different urban legends and horror myths were created as original reflections of those places and the things those people were afraid of.
So you'd see why I'd be a little miffed if DBD all of a sudden started overusing the Yamoaka bloodline taking up all the resources that could instead have been used for wildly different and unique newcomers instead.
More of a practical (opinion) response rather than a lore based response, but I felt it needed to be said anyway.
EDIT: (Lore Based Response)
I did some more digging, and I found that this is actually just the traditional Japanese Sword Display. We here in the west think of Knights with individual swords that are given names and personalized. But in Japan Samurai warriors normally possessed three "swords" The Katana (the widely recognized full sized Samurai Sword), the Wakizashi (a mid-sized sword which resembles the Katana just smaller), and the Tanto (the shortest of the three which was more equivalent to a survival knife).
These weapons were placed in display stands in descending order with the shortest on the top and the longest on the bottom. However, there are cases of two-tier displays:
"In the case of a two tier stand that has a shelf instead of a third tier the correct order would be the tanto on the shelf. Katana on the bottom and then the wakizashi would be on the top."
How was the Japanese Samurai Katana Displayed and Why? Learn Why and How we Use Tradition In Our Displays Today.TL;DR. I think this is just the Oni's weapons passed down, they don't belong to multiple people just to one. Kazan Yamaoka. When he came to the realm of the entity he took one of his swords to use and left the other in the display case which we can see in the map.
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@VolantConch1719 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/195149/is-legion-underage
"Frank Morrison was nineteen and had little to show for it." Word for word from their backstory.
And we know the others are younger than him because everyone at Julie's parties was younger than him.
If by underage, you mean under 21, then yes.
^
Only Frank's age is clearly confirmed, however it's my personal headcanon that Julie is the same age because they're in a relationship and the lore specifies that the people at Julie's party were younger than him (IE Joey and Susie), not Julie herself.
Aside from this we can't say for certain, however, it was commented on by either the devs themselves or just other Fog Whisperers / Content Creators around the time the Stranger Things chapter was speculated as the next chapter release. They said the devs would never select minors (AKA the main cast of the show, so Mike, Lucas, Will, Dustin, Eleven, etc.) to put into the game because it would create bad publicity, having some 14 year olds being brutally cut, beaten, impaled, and murdered isn't a good look even for a horror game. So from this we can basically infer that anyone 17 and under won't be making an appearance in the game, and everyone in the realm of the entity is a (more or less) consenting adult (lol).
Which would mean that Joey and Susie are both 18.
Personally speaking, 19 & 18 aren't exactly what come to mind when I think of the word "underage", so in most cases I would say no except for the only way I could imagine that word applying to them is in terms legal drinking age in the US.
However, (and I think it's kinda obvious where I'm going with this)
Mount Ormond (as far as I'm aware) is in Canada. Where the legal drinking age is eighteen years of age.
So by no metric would any of the members of the Legion be considered "underage".
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This is something I've been thinking for a long while now actually to be totally honest. Spine Chill and Premonition uniquely affect Stealth killers far more than any other killer on the roster because that is their entire ability, the element of surprise is what makes them fun to play as and scary to play against.
Stealth killers as a broad category generally don't need direct perk counters like these (especially since the devs are moving away from perk concepts that single out one [and by extension multiple killers] with their rework of slippery meat) considering for the most part they are either generally (arguably) well balanced to begin with (Ghostface & Myers) or are on the weaker end of tier lists (Pig & Wraith) such that perks like these are straight up unnecessary. This, on top of the fact that SWF is a thing, where players can accurately make call-outs if they see a stealth killer walk past or head in a particular direction.
I think instead what should happen is Spine Chill should be nerfed so that it no longer trump's stealth abilities. Why do I say this? Well comparing the two, there is quite literally no reason to run Premonition so long that Spine Chill exists, Spine Chill quite simply is more accurate, with no cooldown it lights up activating at any time that the killer is looking in your direction. Combined with your own personal intuition about the map you're on, where you saw the killer last, or where he / she is most likely to be, it is impossible to be caught unaware with this perk on. Not to mention it provides other really nice abilities as well like faster action speed (repairing, healing, etc.), and vault speed as well. It's powerful and more importantly, it's passive.
Whereas premonition is far more specific since you must be the one looking in the direction of the killer, it is also limited providing only an audio cue, and then is subsequently put on cooldown for a decently lengthy period of time before it can be used again. Beyond this you're not given anything else and have to interpret what that means, the audio cue could just be popping off because the killer was passing close by, or because he's heading in your direction. Whereas this intuition isn't necessary for spine chill, if it stays lit consistently for longer than about 5 seconds, you can guarantee the killer is coming in your direction, if it only flashes, you're fine to continue whatever it is you were doing. This objectively makes spine chill a far superior perk (in their current states) when it comes to information
So what this does is when Spine Chill is nerfed what this does is it levels the playing field between the two perks balancing the relationship between both. Premonition will now be the only perk survivors have access to that trumps stealth abilities, and this makes sense because it requires the survivor to perform some kind of action (correctly look in the killers direction) and has a cooldown. Now with this change there is more incentive to use premonition than before and you have to weigh the pros and cons of what you're looking for, either more passive information and increased action speeds, or "all-encompassing" information that works consistently all the time.
Why not nerf both? Well simply put: because Spine Chill is meta, and Premonition is not. To reduce the gap between the strongest perks and the weakest ones and encourage perk diversity, perks that are most frequently used should be toned down whereas those which are not should be tuned up.
And on a personal note, I say this with a bit of a heavy heart and internal conflict because Spine Chill is my mainstay perk that basically never leaves my loadout. I really don't want to see it nerfed, but at the same time I know this is reasonable and healthy for the game, pushing stealth killers up to greater levels of effectiveness, as well as generally making matches against them more interesting since now you might actually be caught by surprise for once.
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On just a general note I want to say that I love most all the Blight cosmetics and the concept of the Blight itself and how it affects killers is really interesting. The way I think about the Blight infected killers is that it doesn't just make them more powerful, but it greatly exaggerates their unique characteristics and corrupts them well beyond their natural original state. For example the bits of metal that are stuck through the shoulders of the Trapper grow into giant spikes, The Huntress who acts like an animal and primarily by default identifies with the imagery of a rabbit (to calm the little girls she kidnaps as her "daughters") grows fur, The Hillbilly's deformities are magnified as his body is contorted and bone pushes past skin, and The Wraith's is finally enveloped in his "natural state" covered in growing Wood and sharp thorny vines.
The Clown by far is my absolute favorite example of this. His waistcoat bursts open, completely pulled apart as his belly swells, expanding and inflating well beyond normal proportions to the point that the top layer of flesh is tearing open. The ill-fitting stolen clothes he wears are stretched to their breaking point, ripped open in multiple places. The greasepainted caricature of a smile is forced wide into the rictus of a Jack-O-Lantern, and the sparse balding hair grows back in full in a traditional style of a clown. Alongside so many other small details like the wilted flower pinned to his tailcoat is replaced with one of the pustula flowers which bloom out of the visceral cankers.
Beyond this I think runner ups would be the Trapper and The Nurse. Those are are some fantastic blight cosmetics as well
@Elcopollo said:
I would say... Blight
You know he'll probably be getting a Blight cosmetic too right?
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The Plague is arguably the most poorly designed killer in the entire game, absolutely horrible because she has extremely limited to no counterplay that basically comes down to the decision to cleanse or not cleanse neither option being one that truly benefits survivors. On the other hand, in order to secure most of her chases when playing as her you're basically an M1 killer since nobody ever cleanses, so you're forced to run tiles normally with no special abilities.
It's a lose-lose for literally everyone involved. People don't talk about it or notice it because the problem is pretty nuanced until you take the time to think about it, but I assure you it exists. She needs a major rework, not a Freddy level rework that changes her entire power, but a Doctor scale rework that changes how her power functions and is meant to be used. Note that this rework is necessary for unique reasons, not because she's too powerful or too weak, but because she is blatantly poorly designed and not fun to see in any game as either role. I would take ANY killer to play as or against, hands down, over Plague.
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@Dabihwow said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1373584#Comment_1373584
I salute this, although they could add another circus killer that ties in with clowns lore
That'd be cool yeah. A creepy killer Jester would be cool
But then again if we ever get Pennywise as a licensed killer then we're a few steps away from the whole roster being a giant funhouse. So maybe not, I think the cap for killer-tie-ins / killers who are related with similar origins is two, but that's just a personal preference / headcanon.
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@ThePolice said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1659150#Comment_1659150
As in the finale cosmetic should have that hair by default
Breh, say what you mean and mean what you say jeeeez.
In which case my first response still stands:
@Seiko300 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1656656#Comment_1656656
Weird. If you can see it you should be able to hover over it and click it and the EDIT option should pop up, obviously you can only do this for your own individual posts.
Yeah I remember thinking that a long time ago as well, he has some clearly stylized white going on in his hair. Then I thought, at the same time, the difference may be noticeable IRL, but in DBD the change would be extremely minute so as to possibly not even be noticeable, and therefore not worth the time / effort. Also it'd be a massive ripoff to pay the equivalent of multiple dollars for just a streak of white on the right side of his hair. It'd have to be mega cheap to actually be worth it to the consumer.
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Ash's voice better be loud, that's Bruce Campbell you're listening to and we paid good money to hear that man's 10/10 voice acting. I want that man to be as loud as possible.
Groovy.
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I don't know why Pig isn't on this list, she's also a bona-fide stealth killer and I would have said her in all honesty.
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Anybody who has discussed and debated this topic for long enough knows that what people are asking for is a rework, not an outright nerf. DS should protect survivors who are actually being tunneled, but it should not provide an ounce of protection for survivors who don't need it and / or survivors who seek to abuse that protection. Ergo:
If you are healed to full health / uninjured state you don't need Decisive Strike.
If you feel safe enough to unhook someone else you don't need Decisive Strike.
If you feel safe enough to repair generators you don't need Decisive Strike.
If you feel safe enough to cleanse a (hex) totem you don't need Decisive Strike.
If you feel safe enough to open an exit gate you don't need Decisive Strike.
And if you have the audacity to think that because you jumped into a red box right in the killer's face you deserve 100% invincibility you DEFINITELY don't need Decisive Strike.
In exchange:
DS timer is extended by 15 or 30 seconds.
DS timer pauses when you are in chase.
DS skillcheck difficulty is reduced.
(NOTE - For obvious reasons this list is clearly subject to change to expand or contract in any way, shape, form, or fashion)This is a more than fair enough trade / way of balancing the perk, in all honesty DS doesn't even really deserve the good things I mentioned it'd still be a great perk without all that stuff.
This new version of the perk however, introduces more dynamic decision making skills for the survivor that uses it, it gives you more than enough time to get away and recover from being hooked, but as soon as you do anything progress the game forward the perk deactivates. Leading to thoughts like "is it worth it to repair this generator now or let it regress so I can be healed and do it later?" or "will I have time to open the exit gate or should I hide instead?" "is it safe to go for the unhook or will we both be downed right away?". Encouraging survivors to more meticulously and carefully plan their moves and actions rather than expect to be given everything for free (free gen. repairs, free unhooks, cleanse hex: totems, free exit gate escapes, etc.) and get away with it just because "60 seconds hasn't expired yet!". Which is obviously dumb, yet still that's how many players act with the current version because it enables these stupidly broken plays where survivors literally can't be punished for a very lengthy extended period of time.
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@WalkedMoss92 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1663943#Comment_1663943
How did it fail? What exactly did they do?
@ToxicMyers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1663945#Comment_1663945
they ignored rank completely which had rank 20s going against red ranks
^ This is what happened.
As BAD as you think the ranked system might be where it queues people according to your rank, it is nowhere NEAR as bad as what MMR was. It was laughably horrible, so much so that it became one of the extremely rare and very few instances where the dev team actually decided not to double down, but to say: "hey, we messed up, and we'll change what we did wrong and go back to the original thing we had before, at least for the time being"
MMR took your idea @WalkedMoss92 of "Who cares if you are matched up with other players at your rank level, it doesn't determine anything." and exaggerates that concept to a goddamn eleven. Red Ranks with hundreds or thousands of hours were continuously on a CONSTANT basis being queued with people who were literally playing their very first match of DBD and other similarly inexperienced players who were in the brown ranks because MMR made no distinction for rank because "rank doesn't even matter".
What MMR taught us was yeah, to a certain extent, rank is not the best at identifying and determining a player's skill level, it certainly doesn't paint a whole picture and there are certainly flaws with the system. However, rank IS at the end of the day an aspect that identifies at the very least an overall part or general scope of a player's skill level. There might be a wide range of players in Red Ranks but at the end of the day they're all certainly more experienced than someone who's in green, yellow, and obviously brown.
So obviously ranks don't work by themselves, at the same time an MMR system that completely tosses aside rank as a negligible and meaningless feature doesn't work either. I hope the next thing the devs try to do is incorporate a system that combines both and if it doesn't meet expectation, then it may be as Scott Jund says that an MMR system will simply never work ever in DBD because there are too many randomized elements for a machine or system to really gain an accurate picture of a player's skill level in DBD.
Personally speaking, in the wake of what an absolute disaster MMR was, I've never been more satisfied with matchmaking in my entire life. It's one of those things that you really take for granted until you lose it and realize what a disaster things would be without it, and they certainly were.
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@ThePolice said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1657884#Comment_1657884
I mean like update the cosmetic so its like that default
Well considering that that's not at all how he looks during the main timeline of the show, I personally wouldn't appreciate that, much like many others I would think. The last season of the show (season 4) was never produced / released so we'll never know what might have been, in which case I see no reason for why that look should be forced upon the character by default when it showed up for a total of less than 10 minutes of a single episode in a series that ran for some 3 seasons with full 40 minute episodes.
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I can't for the life of me understand how anyone doesn't like the new graphics, objectively they just straight up look better- I don't know what else to say about that.
And there's definitely no way that they're going to backtrack on the graphic overhaul, this is something they're planning on doing over the course of a full year and are in the midst of changing as we speak so there's definitely 100% absolutely no going back on this. Not only that, but the game is being ported onto Next Gen consoles like the PS5 and Xbox X, so they're obviously making them better in time for that release so everything looks better and it looks the same, at least relatively speaking, across all platforms. So better get used to it, otherwise, I guess yeah quit if you want, but I will say that of all the reasons to quit the game "I don't like how it looks anymore" stands to be one of the dumbest to warrant leaving.
So I'll chalk this up to the concept that people "don't like change" and that's about it.
@ABannedCat said:
Unessecary decrease in performance.
Plus there is more pressing issues in the core-game that should have higher priority.
It's not unnecessary when you consider that the game is confirmed to be ported / released for next generation consoles like PS5 and Xbox X. When people buy games for brand new consoles, they expect them to look amazing and the ones that don't obviously are poorly reviewed (with exception of course to retro games and things like that, but DBD is not retro and is a live-service game that is continually getting updates so it has no excuse and is not exempt). Because the game is being released on brand new consoles it needs to look better but more importantly it needs to look the same (at least relatively) across all platforms.
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All of the above (minus the "they aren't worth the trouble" option).
I don't see why every small license, or any license for that matter should be dealt with in the exact same way. I think it should be taken on a case by case basis, not every chapter deserves to be treated the same way after all, some license holders may be more restrictive than others, so only a legendary skin would be a viable option.
Likewise, a paragraph chapter could also be used for a chapter that just wouldn't fit as a whole chapter lacking a survivor or killer alternative. And so on and so forth
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Nightmare on Elm Street definitely. For the simple fact that this is a licensed chapter, and the other two are original ones. I cannot stress this enough every time people find themselves caught between deciding on a licensed chapter or an original one, ALWAYS buy the licensed one. Literally regardless of what anyone else says. You'll always have the chance of earning an original chapter's characters for free if you play long enough, whereas you will never ever be able to earn any of the licensed chapters. If you find yourself still wanting that chapter after you end up buying an original chapter, you're going to end up having to shell out the bucks for it either way.
Aside from this comparing the chapters individual based on killer and survivor:
Plague (from Demise of the Faithful) is a horribly unfun and terribly designed killer, which kind of ruins that entire chapter for me tbh, my personally most hated killer both to play as and against (for a multitude of reasons) also the only consistent M1 killer out of your three options, since most people don't cleanse you'll eventually just run tiles normally trying to M1 different survivors (boring). The Blight is definitely good with high mobility and even chase potential, but also definitely has the steepest skill curve out of all of them and so can be a bit frustrating in that way. So Freddy wins by miles for me in this one, having both the mobility / map pressure, and chase potential among other things.
For survivors Felix from the Descend Beyond Chapter is probably the best (being the most well rounded) out of all of them. Visionary isn't all that necessary for someone who's experienced but if you're new it's a great tool to help you navigate maps and get where you need to go without wasting time. So great perk for greenies tbh, who might waste too much time wandering maps aimlessly. Desperate Measures is an amazing healing perk, and built to last is great if you use items a lot and are running an item & / or looting build.
Jane has decent perks but most of them are all situational. Head On needs the synergy from Q&Q to be most effective, if you're not in an SWF. Poised is a nice perk to fit into a fast paced stealth build, but honestly there are stealth perks better than this to fit into your run of the mill immersed survivor loadout. Solidarity kinda sucks, although I hear it has some great synergy with Desperate Measures.
Unfortunately Quentin lacks in the perks department, Pharmacy is definitely his best perk and it certainly is useful, some people argue it's better than Self-Care because you won't waste as much time. Then again, it'll only provide you one heal since all you're pulling is your standard green medkit without add-ons (unless you run Ace in The Hole with it of course, which is some decent synergy). Vigil is the runner up but it's only really all that useful in synergy with exhaustion perks, since you can't guarantee the killer you're going up against will be relying on the negative status effects vigil heals you up more quickly from. Wake Up is a nice end-game perk if you have to Open Exit Gates for a daily or escape through the exit gates, or be alive in the trial after other survivors escape from the trial, yadda yadda yadda. Aside from this it's not that great.
So take from this post what you will.
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@ThePolice said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1656647#Comment_1656647
For some reason it wont let me click the gear
They need to change the ‘finale’ set for him to have accurate hair aswell
Weird. If you can see it you should be able to hover over it and click it and the EDIT option should pop up, obviously you can only do this for your own individual posts.
Yeah I remember thinking that a long time ago as well, he has some clearly stylized white going on in his hair. Then I thought, at the same time, the difference may be noticeable IRL, but in DBD the change would be extremely minute so as to possibly not even be noticeable, and therefore not worth the time / effort. Also it'd be a massive ripoff to pay the equivalent of multiple dollars for just a streak of white on the right side of his hair. It'd have to be mega cheap to actually be worth it to the consumer.
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@ThePolice said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1656615#Comment_1656615
Id love to have chainsaw ash and maybe his jackets as green outfits? Thatd be sick
@ThePolice said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1656615#Comment_1656615
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1656615#Comment_1656615
Meant to say asylum ash but typed chainsaw, idk how to edit the comment
Who knows, it could be that the Jackets actually come individually, similar to how Cheryl from Silent Hill has different Shirts she can wear but the skirt is what they haven't changed (yet). In which case they could even be of an uncommon (yellow) rarity.
Also in the top right corner of your posts there's a little "Settings Gear" and from there you can click it to edit your posts after they've been posted. Pretty handy tool if you made a typo or wanted to add on to your post in any way.
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Breh.
If that's all you're looking for, again for the third time, new ash skins are still available in the show. We could just as- no let me correct that we could MORE easily get something like the outfit Ash wears in the asylum than we would any of his previous looks (previously mentioned) due to licensing and such.
(Of course likely minus the chainsaw)
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As someone who plays both sides it is PAINFUL how clear and obvious Devs Bias towards DS is when factoring in their decision to Nerf Pop, and it becomes increasingly so much harder to sympathize with survivors who actively ignore or straight up refuse to acknowledge this and the subsequent problems that Decisive Strike creates.
Decisive Strike has never ONCE been balanced in four years, it is egregious how long this perk has existed as one of the oldest perks in all of DBD and yet always has remained a point of high contention and controversy for basically it's entire lifetime. Never once has the perk ever been properly balanced by the dev team and despite that the knowledge of why it is broken is now widespread common knowledge even to younger players who only freshly and recently joined, action is still not being taken.
Or if it is being taken, it is not being properly communicated about which I would argue is equally bad. The community is livid and rightly so about the combined mismanagement and inaction of four years in regards to this one perk. When the tables were reversed, the idea of reworking Hex: Ruin received nowhere near this much pushback from killers that the idea of reworking Decisive has from Survivors. Killers took their medicine for their broken, un-fun, meta perk a long time ago and now it's time for survivors to do the same. That is called balance.
And guess what? Ruin was tamed from previous incarnation and was fine after it's rework, it's still a quality and powerful perk that we see people use all the time. In all likelihood the same can be said for Decisive, only difference is it'll actually be used for the anti-tunnel purpose it was intended for, and nothing else- nothing more but equally nothing less.
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First off you didn't actually create poll options for people to vote off of, you only wrote them in the description. (When you have the Polls section of the forums open Click the Drop Down Menu next to "New Discussion" and it'll automatically create the option to add Poll Options. This is not that hard people)
Secondly, out of the provided options I feel like Candyman is the most realistic option out of all the ones provided.
- Outlast would be great and is certainly a viable addition making it a close second, but there are bigger chapters that people / the devs are looking forward to, Candyman definitely being one of them. Although I will say I'm certain we'll see Outlast at some point in the future
- F13 still has that lawsuit going on, so for the time being the license is unavailable (UNLESS the devs make a license agreement under the condition that they make no mention or reference to the original film [this is what the lawsuit is disputing over] so nothing about a boy who drowned, Jason's Mother, Camp Crystal Lake, etc. Although this is technically possible it's definitely a tall order and certainly a stretch to say it will definitively happen, another thing is that they might not even want to do that in the first place so we might just wait until the lawsuit is over)
- Many people don't actually take the Fnaf consideration seriously, many more on top of them are seriously opposed to the idea. Either way you slide, there's too much controversy around the possibility to really make the addition completely viable. And that's assuming that Scott Cawthon himself is even OPEN to the possibility of licensing the Magnum Opus of his career to another company. From my understanding he is extremely meticulous about his work and he made the first four games all by himself and didn't work with a team until the fifth. With this in mind it seems less likely this chapter will ever happen (on top of other issues like Fnaf possibly being so fundamentally different from DBD that it doesn't seem to work or mesh together very well)
- Isn't SCP like a free domain Internet culture thing? From my understanding it wasn't started by one person so I feel like there might be some serious licensing issues in regards to this making it potentially not safe legally speaking to pursue an SCP chapter, although some SCPs are cool. Many don't fit in Dead By Daylight.
- Chucky is too short. (Although I'm open to the possibility that perhaps the devs can cook up some workaround / way to balance this idea, this obstacle by itself is one that it always brought up).
@TsukiYurei said:
Outlast II Marta would be sweet.
It probably wouldn't happen unfortunately:
@Seiko300 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1640967#Comment_1640967
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1641134#Comment_1641134
No wait, I think he's on to something, as I just remembered something that potentially loosely relates to her chances on getting in.
No "legal" obstacles per-se, but BHVR / The Dev team said in very clear and explicit terms a long time ago that they'd never do a religious chapter, they wanted nothing to do with controversy, social stigma, or alienate / frustrate players from those backgrounds. And by religious I / they mean / meant real actual religions like Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc.
They easily found a work-around instead that seemed to appease all parties both them and the playerbase by instead creating their own fictional ancient mythological religion which is the source of the Plague's backstory who is an ancient Babylonian Priestess.
However, Outlast 2 had absolutely NO qualms or hesitation when it came to dipping into those exact waters that created a seriously unsettling environment and extremely uneasy tone, atmosphere, and mindset for the player. One can definitely argue this is what made it not only an extremely successful horror game, but extremely effective in the sheer horror it was trying to instill into its audience. Not everyone will agree though, and I do remember upon Outlast 2's release there were plenty of articles and media outlets that really didn't like what they did and there was a certain air of controversy and even hostility toward the game from certain groups.
So like it or not, this is exactly what Dead By Daylight wants to avoid. Outlast 2's entire plot revolves around a violent extremist Christian cult in the backwood regions of Arizona. Marta, just like all the other character's are heavily and deeply tied to a disturbing perversion (or not? That's an aspect of the psychological horror of the game) of the Christian faith and symbolism that is blatantly unavoidable even on the very surface. She wears a rosary complete with a cross / crucifix on her wrist or waist if I recall correctly, and even the weapon she wields can very easily be interpreted as a physical manifestation of the Cross which she uses to violently brutalize and murder different characters (including the player if you get caught) throughout the game.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QHZVDYITL4T7/image.png
So unfortunately, I think these are some pretty condemning conclusive reasons / thoughts for why she wouldn't make it into the game, sorry to be the bearer of bad news. It seems super obvious to me now, I can't believe I didn't remember or think of this before.
On the bright side, this doesn't mean the entirety of Outlast is thrown out the Window, only basically anything from the second game because of how deeply ingrained religion is tied into the plot and theme of the game and all its characters. We can all still continue to hope for Outlast representation in DBD from Outlast 1, Outlast 1's Whistleblower DLC, or the upcoming the Outlast Trials (Outlast 3). I'm still looking forward to an Outlast Chapter regardless, I think it's one of the most intense, scariest horror games out there in the industry and DBD would be a fool not to seek it out as a licensed addition to the cast, regardless of whatever form that addition may take.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1653170#Comment_1653170
"Even if it wasn't a hex: perk it'd still be hella situational if not damn-near useless." - Yeap. Even if it's not cleansed, it becomes mostly useless in late game when many pallets are gone.
I would actually say that's when it is the most useful. The reason why the perk sucks is because it blocks pallets within a 16 meter range, but with the on-hit speed boost a survivor gets that literally doesn't matter because they can just run to the next thing that isn't blocked, that's why it sucks.
However, in late game when more pallets are destroyed, there might be nothing left to run to, so if a survivor is trying to survive off the last fringe pallets on the edge of the map and that's the one that's blocked, they're kind of screwed as their last resource was blocked off. Late game is one of the few situational instances where you might actually be more likely to get some use out of it than at any point previous in the match.
Problem is, it's a HEX: perk right now, and that's when it being a Hex: Perk creates problems, most Hexes don't last all the way to end game to begin with, unless you're really lucky and get a good totem spot (but most spots aren't) or you're lucky enough to be on a map where totems can be difficult to find in the first place (Swamp, all indoor maps, red forest, etc.). Again, Hex: Perks denote a High Risk high reward strategy, but Hex: Blood Favor is absolutely garbage so you're giving yourself High risk for little to no reward. So yeah, the perk is still garbage regardless.
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@ThePolice said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1653154#Comment_1653154
See when I saw “broken chainsaw” I assumed just like the engine part all smashed up or something stuck on his hand rather than a full sized chainsaw
Why would you even want it then at that point?? o_0
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Killer instinct is ALREADY passive on like 3 killers right now. I'm of the firm belief that every killer should be as unique as possible, and anything that differentiates any single one of them from the other is a good thing. Demo having to right click to see anybody's Killer Instinct around active portals is a good thing imo.
Legion (after hitting someone in feral frenzy) all other survivors are revealed through killer instinct
Pyramid Head (after a survivor runs through Trails of Torment)
Ghostface ( after being revealed by a survivor)
Demo needs buffs, but I don't like this idea, either this realistically won't give him any serious change in viability, or it'll be way too over-tuned in terms of how much information he is provided on top of being able to act on it right away. That's like giving Freddy Krueger killer instinct on any generator just so he can teleport right back to it immediately. Which I can see getting really annoying really quickly as survivors are constantly forced to clear the portals every time. With 3 gens chained up, hell even with 4 or 5 gens in close proximity to each other, this seems like a straight up dumb idea.
Somebody might tell me "yeah but Hag can kind of do that too already, since she gets information from her phantasm traps and can teleport to them right away. Why not Demogorgon?" To which I'll reply in two ways:
1. If you want Demo to be able to do what Hag, does, just play Hag. We're not trying to create Hag V.2.0 and slap it on Demogorgon just because we know it will work and make him viable, that's boring, dull, uninspired, and not unique at all.
2. Unlike Demogorgon, there are built in restrictions to her kit as well as counterplay available to survivors that sort of makes this work. For one she cannot teleport back to her traps at any distance, at a far enough range she won't be able to teleport back. Whereas Demo only needs to go to his nearest portal to go to any one of them, and Two, survivors can crouch to not activate her phantasm traps. No such counterplay exists for survivors when it comes to Demogorgon's portals, and don't tell me "just destroy them". That action takes a solid 5 or 10 seconds for survivors, and Demo can literally set it back up again in less than 2. That's not viable.
EDIT: Also, also. Passive abilities like that aren't all that fun. Especially in Demogorgon's case, when they would be map-wide and you could see killer instinct hypothetically all the way at the other side of the map. Unlike the other 3 killers where in Legion's case you could run out of their terror radius or straight up outrun feral frenzy if you're far enough, in Pyramid Head's case crouch through Trail of Torment or just run around it, and in Ghostface's case avoid revealing him if you're trying to hide and be immersed.
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As an Ace main, this feels like a blatant attack on my in-game identity. I refuse to vote.
Lmao"Some call them the worst teachables... but it's more like great teachables that just haven't been reworked yet" -Aces and Eights definitely-canon-description
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I have a fairly neutral opinion about the topic, such that I can't really confidently say yes or no.
On the one hand, they were nice to have and to see, visually, what's going on within the DBD community as a whole.
On the other hand, these stats were very quickly and constantly referred back to by the community in ways or in conversations where they really didn't belong. In such a way that people were making very large leaps in logic and cited these very statistics as their evidence to validate their arguments with very little to no consideration for the myriad of other factors that influence whatever it was that they were talking about at the time.
If they bring them back it'll be cool, I'll definitely be interested in looking them over and ruminating / speculating / inferring on any hidden meaning or information that I might glean from them (despite this probably being exactly what creates the aforementioned problems I discussed, I'll still do it anyway lol).
If not, I understand exactly why, and it's not like I'll really miss them.
The statistics more often than not, just re-stated things that we already knew at the time and I think people overestimate exactly how much information they actually provide. For anybody who regularly engages with the community and participate in the various conversations that occur therein, you can pretty accurately and easily gauge the community's thoughts and feelings on a certain thing. Reading peoples forum posts, watching content creators on youtube or twitch talk about certain things or show off gameplay honestly takes you to about the same destination as Statistics do, if not more so because all those people will give reasons, arguments, and logic to back up what they're saying. Whereas Statistics are pretty empty in that regard, and give no reasons for why they are- they just are, in this way statistics can be considered kind of meaningless and useless.
Although every now and then something interesting crops up from them. Like what exactly is the most used Survivor or Killer perk, that's not something you'll really find even with enough digging on the forums or the internet. We can establish a meta, but not determine exactly what is the most frequently used, or by how much, how great of a margin over the next best thing.
I don't know, I think it's a more interesting and complex topic than people give it credit for. People are so quick to jump to answer sometimes without thinking. (As of writing 7 people have voted yes and nobody said No).
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1653147#Comment_1653147
I’m gonna guess it’s an error in the text. I’m doubtful they would have changed to the whole time while repairing on a generator. Although that would be amazing, and actually further help it also be a stall perk (survivors waiting for their exhaustion to recover first before repairing again)
Even if it is just an error, I think the fact that the community brings it up as a pretty viable idea to make the perk even better, despite the fact that the idea came from an error in the text, probably might be enough to spur the devs on and make that change if it wasn't deliberate.
In the same way that plenty of changes have been made that were originally bugs, or purely accidental / unintended, except the devs liked them enough that they kept them the way they were..
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@TheButcher6641 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1640429#Comment_1640429
I just think that it would be unlikely that Red Barrels would agree to having Marta in dbd and that Behaviour Interactive would even consider including her. I might be wrong though, I hope I'm wrong.
@anonymous31337 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1640967#Comment_1640967
I also hope you are wrong :D Marta was my favorite antagonist in the entire outlast series.
No wait, I think he's on to something, as I just remembered something that potentially loosely relates to her chances on getting in.
No "legal" obstacles per-se, but BHVR / The Dev team said in very clear and explicit terms a long time ago that they'd never do a religious chapter, they wanted nothing to do with controversy, social stigma, or alienate / frustrate players from those backgrounds. And by religious I / they mean / meant real actual religions like Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc.
They easily found a work-around instead that seemed to appease all parties both them and the playerbase by instead creating their own fictional ancient mythological religion which is the source of the Plague's backstory who is an ancient Babylonian Priestess.
However, Outlast 2 had absolutely NO qualms or hesitation when it came to dipping into those exact waters that created a seriously unsettling environment and extremely uneasy tone, atmosphere, and mindset for the player. One can definitely argue this is what made it not only an extremely successful horror game, but extremely effective in the sheer horror it was trying to instill into its audience. Not everyone will agree though, and I do remember upon Outlast 2's release there were plenty of articles and media outlets that really didn't like what they did and there was a certain air of controversy and even hostility toward the game from certain groups.
So like it or not, this is exactly what Dead By Daylight wants to avoid. Outlast 2's entire plot revolves around a violent extremist Christian cult in the backwood regions of Arizona. Marta, just like all the other character's are heavily and deeply tied to a disturbing perversion (or not? That's an aspect of the psychological horror of the game) of the Christian faith and symbolism that is blatantly unavoidable even on the very surface. She wears a rosary complete with a cross / crucifix on her wrist or waist if I recall correctly, and even the weapon she wields can very easily be interpreted as a physical manifestation of the Cross which she uses to violently brutalize and murder different characters (including the player if you get caught) throughout the game.
So unfortunately, I think these are some pretty condemning conclusive reasons / thoughts for why she wouldn't make it into the game, sorry to be the bearer of bad news. It seems super obvious to me now, I can't believe I didn't remember or think of this before.
On the bright side, this doesn't mean the entirety of Outlast is thrown out the Window, only basically anything from the second game because of how deeply ingrained religion is tied into the plot and theme of the game and all its characters. We can all still continue to hope for Outlast representation in DBD from Outlast 1, Outlast 1's Whistleblower DLC, or the upcoming the Outlast Trials (Outlast 3). I'm still looking forward to an Outlast Chapter regardless, I think it's one of the most intense, scariest horror games out there in the industry and DBD would be a fool not to seek it out as a licensed addition to the cast, regardless of whatever form that addition may take.
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Even if it wasn't a hex: perk it'd still be hella situational if not damn-near useless.
Honestly that's probably the best course of action for this perk though, even with some decent buffs I don't see this perk being anywhere near Hex-Worthy. Better to get rid of the Hex: and put it on a longer cooldown instead, alongside with other buffs like maybe what you mentioned about blocking the nearest number of pallets rather than on a ranged restriction.
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@ThePolice said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1183339#Comment_1183339
Can you pick up things with a solid wooden hand?
Yes, you can.
Reeeeeeaaaally old necro btw I had to re-read entire parts of this thread to gain context again, :P
That being said I still stand by my pre-pandemic self (Pandemic really started to pick up steam around March as I recall) and what I said months ago. You can pick things up with a solid wooden hand, for example you can slip the handle of a mug over the fingers or even the thumb of a wooden hand. You can rotate a wooden hand 45 degrees to the left (it's on his left hand) with the palm facing up and place something on top of it to "hold". Regardless of the fact that you cannot grip with a wooden hand it is infinitely more usable in day to day life than having a gigantic chainsaw strapped to your hand.
Which reminds me of this funny promotional video I saw for the TV series a long time ago that visualizes that exact issue perfectly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ceRPg0kd3MIn Dead By Daylight terms specifically, it's true, the wooden hand cosmetic doesn't move (I don't own it but from my understanding this is how it works) however it is still the size of a normal hand and can therefore be used to reach into a generator, and do all sorts of things whether that's as simple as pushing things around or out of the way. A chainsaw is far too bulky to be of any kind of use, especially when considering the animations we currently have, and my very first post describes this "What is it going to do clip through the generator and smack the guy on the other side in the face?"
Even if size of the chainsaw was reduced the animations would look extremely awkward unless they were changed (which we know they won't do, they won't even do it for Legendary Skins, case in point a Greek Minotaur still acts and sounds exactly like a disciplined (yet rage filled) Japanese Samurai Warrior). And I didn't mention this before but it seems pretty obvious to me now, would anybody who's a fan of the Evil Dead franchise and Ash Williams as a character really want to see him equipped with a mini chainsaw that makes him look utterly ridiculous? I wouldn't.
Again, there are plenty of cool looks that he sports from the show that we've yet to see in DBD (I still really want to see that Red Leather Jacket).
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This is one of the oldest ideas that have come from the DBD community. It is also infinitely more complicated than whether or not it sounds like a "cool idea" or a "bad idea" and trying to balance this mode sounds like a nightmare (if they try to balance it at all).
There's a solid chance that this will never happen, but I will submit, it is kind of cool to think about sometimes every now and then.
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I think there are better alternatives for killer options from the Outlast series. I'd much rather see Dr. Trager or Chris Walker, but Marta does come as a close third.
@bubbabrotha said:
Who?
If you haven't heard of or played any of the Outlast games, can you even call yourself a horror gamer?
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This idea is worthless because it's a loaded question to begin with. "The Right Thing" my ass
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I see a lot of people here saying Blight but TBH he's labeled as a "hard difficulty" killer for a reason. If you're inexperienced, or not fully confident about your skills as killer, it certainly would not be the first killer I'd recommend. For this reason, I'd have to lean towards Doctor just because he's easier to use, counters Stealth, and can be effective in chases if you can time the shock at the pallet or window before the drop / vault. In this way you might actually see more success using and perfecting the Doctor before you're even able to use the Blight properly.
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@Bard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1638334#Comment_1638334
Clown and Myers can be fixed with simple number changes and code tweaks. The fact that they're as bad as they are after this long is an embarrassment.
Legion and Pig are complete trainwrecks that need to be reworked, but it would take a long time to do so due to the sheer amount of work that has to be done on them.
Freddy is stronger than those other walking dumpster fires, but he's no better as a design.
The reason I think he should be updated before those others (except Clown/Myers... that should have happened a year ago) is because it would take so little effort.
The rework I described has very little in the way of "new assets". The sleep mechanics are a mix of Old and New Freddy (both of which are already coded), Dream Projection is practically unchanged as far as how it actually works,
Hell, it doesn't even have to be nearly as intensive as this!
You could literally just take old Freddy, fix his bugs, and slap on the live version of Dream Projection and you would have a better design than what we've got.
I'll have to disagree and say that Freddy was put under the most intense scrutiny during his rework, they changed him from the ground up on a fundamental level that completely altered how his power function in almost every way yet still remained true to his character. What made him a poor killer was very closely examined and explored, his original incarnation was flawed at the most basic level though the concept on paper may have been interesting.
There's a reason that Freddy was reworked to such a scale, the community asked for the change and the developers delivered. The mere notion of re-implementing any aspects of old Freddy into modern Freddy let alone the idea of "taking old Freddy, fix his bugs, and slap on the live version of Dream projection" as if that will make him any better is completely and utterly asinine in every sense of the word.
And I can't believe I have to say this because it's so obvious: Not being able to hit survivors is crippling. I don't mean to be rude, but you have to be out of your mind to seriously believe that this and most of everything else that you're suggesting is anywhere near a good idea let alone superior in-design to modern Freddy.
Most importantly: The Code from Old Freddy does not exist. When the rework went through, this code was deleted, we know this because some few old-version Freddy sympathizers asked the devs if they could keep both the new and old version of Freddy and the short answer was no. One of the cited reasons was along these lines if I'm not mistaken, so long story short unless the devs suddenly have a change of heart and decided to re-animate, re-code, and re-program old Freddy back into new Freddy there is no hope for you or anybody else to ever see old Freddy ever again. Thank God and good riddance.
@Withered8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1638334#Comment_1638334
Plague? What’s wrong with her?
She is arguably the most poorly designed killer out of the entire current roster. You want an example of bad design @Bard ? Look no further than the Plague.
Don't even get me started, I've written the equivalent of an entire paper on the Plague before, but I'll boil it down for you now to a simple, universal, and well-understood concept that has been repeatedly proven throughout Dead By Daylight's history: Passive is not fun.
Ironically enough, this standard was actually established from the Freddy Rework, Killers had been released before Freddy who had passive powers or passive aspects to their powers, but Freddy's original incarnation pushed this idea to its limit and breaking point forcing a change from the devs because of how terrible it was. Both in regards to it not being fun for killer "Oh man, I get to stand here for 6 seconds and wait until a survivor falls asleep! (Is this what it feels like to be skillful?)" or survivor "Great, I'm asleep and now this Generator is going to take me 10 years to finish, here's hoping a skillcheck pops up soon..." and how poor the ability was from a viability standpoint. With no mobility, no chase potential (being purely an M1 killer), and really nothing of significance or consequence in his kit except for massive slowdown (not interesting) and universal aura reading (not skillful) old Freddy was terrible all around.
The devs since the Freddy rework have followed up on this idea changing some of the most prevalent passive aspects of the game at the time. This includes runner-up for most passive ability: The Doctor, who was also reworked, and the then infamous but-now-a-thing-of-the-past Hex: Ruin rework. More examples can be found but these are some of the most well known, yet despite this there are still killers that exist in today's modern version of the game that are very obviously at fault of passive abilities.
Introducing The Plague (and the Pig!)
Coming in at third place behind the Doctor and Freddy the Plague undoubtedly has a power that is nearly completely passive (and I'll try to wrap this up quickly to stop myself from ranting, I've already written more than I intended to). The problem with her power is it puts the survivor in an un-winnable situation (I use this term loosely, not to describe the match overall but the situation within that match specifically), presenting the survivor with the illusion of a choice but in reality neither option available to them is an appealing one and neither one truly benefits them.
Regardless of the choice which I'll get to in a moment, there is absolutely no counter-play provided to the survivor to avoid her ability. Getting the tiniest bit of Vile Purge on a Survivor immediately means they're sick, there is absolutely nothing they can do to stop the progression of the illness. Realistically speaking the Plague doesn't have to continue chasing that survivor, she doesn't even need to infect them completely, getting the tiniest bit on them means the "timer" has started and eventually at some point during the match they will become broken and injured. No perk, no item, no strat, can stop this from happening, and it's not like this is difficult for the Plague to do, of all the ranged killers she is by far the easiest to control in that she acts like a hose and you can literally spray and pray flicking your mouse from left to right across the entire screen and you'll probably hit somebody.
After that you're broken, and you're presented with that choice I was talking about earlier- either you submit and cleanse yourself with one of the many the Pools of Devotion scattered across the map and give the Plague access to the singlehandedly most aggressive and powerful damaging ability out of the entire killer roster, or you don't cleanse and you remain broken. For the entirety of the match, permanently injured.
At the most basic level this is simply and objectively not fun, for either role. A survivor is placed in an un-winnable situation where neither choice he/she makes really matters, both of them are bad for them and good for the killer, but the killer, the Plague, at the same time is just an M1 killer. After she gets someone fully infected what does she do? She runs the tiles normally as an M1 killer, and like any M1 killer she can be looped to hell and back with zero tools at her disposal to deal with that. Relying purely on the her own skill to run tiles, or as others more pessimistically put it: for the survivor to make a mistake.
I say zero, because we all know the choice most survivors make. Most survivors, unless they are inexperienced or really just don't care and are willing to throw the match, won't cleanse. Which means the Plague is stuck with her one dumb passive ability and distinctly lacking the one fun aspect of her power the Corrupt Purge which is her only redeeming quality- it is completely up to the survivors whether or not she gets access to her power. In other words, survivors are passively afflicted with illness, just so that the Plague can passively (potentially, it's not even a guarantee) get her corrupt purge. She isn't necessarily doing anything (much less anything particularly skillful) to get her corrupt purge, again, it doesn't matter if she gets them sick immediately or if the illness passively breaks that survivor, either way they will eventually become broken and either way they will eventually be confronted with the same un-winnable choice: to cleanse, or not to cleanse. That is the question.
This is why the Plague is my personally most despised and hated killer- both to play as and against. THAT is what bad design looks like.
And really quick I'll force myself to contain this last bit to a paragraph because I did end up ranting: The Pig suffers from the exact same problem The Plague does now and that the Doctor and Freddy did before them, but only to a lesser degree, not as annoying or in your face. Her Reverse Bear Traps are completely passive, she puts one on the head of the survivor and that's it- from then on she has nothing to do with whether or not the survivor lives or dies by the bear trap. She has no control over when it activates, nor does she have any control over how long it stays on their heads, or anything else. The killer is not involved in that process at all, and that is the problem with passive abilities: the fun of Dead By Daylight comes in large part FROM the killer interacting with the survivor. This is a core fundamental truth of Dead By Daylight and its gameplay.
And it's also the reason why Old Freddy sucked, and why he'll never come back in any way, shape, form, or fashion. @Bard
You'd be deluded to think otherwise.
Thank you for coming to class today, I hope you took notes because there'll be a test next week on the content we covered here this week.
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@Pipefish said:
Didn't Freddy already go through a massive rework though 🤔
^
Freddy might have some issues, but the idea that he isn't skillful and "boring" is massively blown out of proportion. Even while asleep in the dream realm you can still loop a Freddy through his snares or if you've actually been paying attention to dream pallets. While you're awake he's a pure M1 killer with a teleport to generators that has a decent cooldown, so constantly waking yourself up (whether to remember pallet locations or avoid Dream Snares) is vital against the killer. Thankfully survivors have numerous ways to wake themselves up, running across the map, waking each other up (although you probably only want to do this once or twice), or failing a skillcheck.
I'm slightly annoyed at the people who insist Freddy requires another major (or at least heavy duty) rework, most all this issues about his lack of skill or just "being boring" are all perceived and / or opinion based. They also serve as a massive disservice to the incredible job the dev team did reworking a character that originally WAS boring and nowhere near consistently viably playable (the higher the rank you go). There absolutely is a skill cap with Freddy and there's a limit to what you can do with him, unlike characters like Spirit, Nurse, or even somebody like Huntress, the built in limitations already set into his kit keep him fairly balanced and I don't buy this idea that he is broken, or even poorly designed for a second.
ESPECIALLY when there are killers that ACTUALLY are in desperate need for reworks and changes. Clown first and foremost and afterward: Legion, Pig, Plague, you could argue Myers needs a little bit of love to push him a bit further, you could argue Spirit needs a bit of attention to be toned down, arguments can be made that characters like Deathslinger and Pyramid Head may need some tweaking to their fundamental base mechanics because these characters (in theory [as opposed to in practice]) are hypothetically broken in chases. It'd be nice to see Trapper buffs, it'd be nice to see Wraith buffs, something has got to be done about Demogorgon because I haven't seen one in like 4 months and other players report a similar trend of a distinct lack of Demo, etc. so on and so forth.
Freddy (especially by comparison) does not need changes.
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I like that this poll option perfectly expresses my thoughts and feelings on the possibility.
Undoubtedly would be one of, if not the worst choice to be added as far as licenses go, I don't buy into the fnaf fad / trend, I think it's a decent story on it's own independent from Dead By Daylight but I'm not a fan of the gameplay it offers nor of the idea of actually having any of those characters implemented into Dead By Daylight's gameplay.
I maintain that Fnaf is just a higher quality Creepypasta. As it stands- easily spread "horror" stories (creepypastas) through the internet like Jeff the Killer, Slenderman, Sonic.EXE, etc. are all a joke and these spawns of Internet Culture do not match or fit the tone of Dead By Daylight in any way. Dead By Daylight being more of a tribute to the original slashers that grew in popularity throughout the 60's up to the late 90's, it's only right about now 20 years later that interest seems to have been revived in this sub-genre and Dead By Daylight is a contributing factor to that.
I understand that Dead By Daylight is looking to eventually branch out beyond these roots, I am more than well aware of the fact. However, considering the distinct lack of immensely popular characters and vastly more appealing alternatives like Jason Voorhees, The Xenomorph, Pennywise, Candyman, Pinhead, The Predator, Chucky, and even lesser considered characters like The Thing, The T-1000 Terminator, or The Miner from My Bloody Valentine, I can't see myself ever accepting the possibility of Fnaf until a decent chunk of these characters have made it in.
People continue to say that "eventually we'll run out of those cool licensed characters" but think about it, Dead By Daylight only releases some 4 chapters a year. The characters I listed alone by themselves would account for more than 2 years worth of content by themselves, and this is not mentioning the fact that BHVR releases their own original characters and concepts as well and they do a hell of a job of it. More often than not they release more original chapters than licensed chapters, so the list I provided could honestly easily be stretched to well over 4 years of content if they released just two original chapters every year. If even that, because we know for a fact that BHVR has no qualms about releasing original chapters back-to-back-to-back-to-back (chapters 8-11 were all original chapters [Curtain Call, Shattered Bloodline, Darkness Among Us, Demise of the Faithful]).
You think that far into the future, are we all still going to be playing Dead By Daylight in four years? I mean maybe, there's a part of me that kind of likes to think so, all kinds of gaming communities have the potential to last for incredible amounts of time and still be going strong- League, TF2, literally Left 4 Dead 2 is getting a brand new major expansion after 10 years. So it's entirely possible. But then again, if that's the case there's no need for a character like Springtrap until well beyond into the future.
At which point in time, maybe I will have changed my mind- until then, no.
@VolantConch1719 said:
I wouldn't jump for joy if he was added, but I wouldn't go on a madness induced rampage either.
With Help Wanted, Scott seems to be going in a more mature direction for the series. Give him time to do so, then we can bring this up again. Until then, I'm just tired of seeing this topic and want it to die.
Do I want him? Down the road, maybe, but not right now. Not when there are much bigger and more important names that are still absent from the roster.
I do really like this answer though. I can respect this opinion ^
It's entirely possible that my mind will be changed much sooner than I expect, only time will tell.
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@Slashstreetboy said:
To me crossplay is a great feature. Qeue times are so great, with Killer always being under 30 seconds and survivor mostly under 2 minutes.
^ I absolutely agree though I will say that in my experience my survivor queues are typically shorter than my killer queues so I'd swap, survivor tends to be under 30 seconds and killer under 2 mins.
Both however are INFINITELY faster than what they were without crossplay and that is something I appreciate immensely.
The only problems I have with crossplay is I wish I was paired with fellow PC players more often- just because I have the feature on doesn't mean I want 7/10 games to be full console squads + me. I want to see an even distribution between the players in a match on Console and PC, or at the very least an even distribution across multiple games, if I'm in a squad where everybody else is a console player one match, I'd like the next match to actually be everybody on PC. Unfortunately this isn't what happens, and rarely do I get a full squad of just fellow PC players who I can talk to in pre and post-game match. (Of course this doesn't concern me as much while I'm playing Killer, however for the sake of consistency my point still stands that this is how it should be).
Which leads me to my second problem, which is that Console players can't talk, I'd like some form of communication enabled for players on these platforms. The community aspect of the game is completely removed when nobody can talk in pre and post game, though it's not something I ever thought I'd miss seeing, the game feels surprisingly less lively without the feature. Especially in pre-game chat I can't say "hey let's stack Bloody Party Streamers" or "I'm running a full looting build, please don't open any chests, I'll leave items in them". Or even just straight up talking about the game, asking for opinions on what they think about "the new chapter that just released" or "new changes that just dropped" that kind of thing.
I won't lie it's not like I use the chat features constantly, I'm often tabbed out watching youtube while I wait for my next match to start throughout both queue and lobby wait times. Although on the occasion that I do want to communicate with other players or vice versa, it's nice to know that I / they can, but no longer so, especially in conjunction with what I said previously about how I am frequently playing more often than not, with console players instead of PC players. So more often than not, nobody is talking at all which is what attributes to that feeling of loss of that lively communicative environment.
Certainly these are small prices to pay for just how much better queue times are, still though, it brings to mind the argument about "quality vs. quantity" in this case: The quantity of the number of matches you can play in a certain amount of time vs. your experience about the quality of those matches.
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@OogieBoogie said:
Set aside challenges and you have 342 fragments to get from playtime alone. However, you also get a bonus 300xp per day for your first killer and survivor matches. So let's assume you do at least one match of each daily and set that aside. That's 1600xp per day (500 match xp + 300 bonus for each), which is 2 fragments. That's potentially 140 fragments off of the 342 you need, leaving 202 fragments purely from playtime.
202 x 800 = 161,600xp
Assuming you get 500xp per match (you can get up to 600, but I'll just assume the lower end):
161600 / 500 = 323.2 matches total
323.2 / 70 = ~4.6 matches per day
Add back the 2 matches per day you're already playing for the daily bonus and you get 6.6 matches per day. So basically between 6 and 7 matches per day, assuming you do all your challenges during those matches.
That said, the problem here is that it's also assuming that someone will be playing EVERY DAY for 70 days, which just isn't viable or desirably for most people. I've been kind of burnt out on the game lately and started playing other games and as such I'm at the point where I'll need to play 13-14 games per day to finish, which is 2-4 hours per day. It just feels like a chore.
^^
This last paragraph specifically is what I want to focus on, honestly the idea that someone will be playing every day for 70 days straight is absolutely ludicrous. Very few people can do that and even those that can probably don't actually want to, I absolutely agree that nowadays it feels more like a chore vs. two years ago where I was playing and supporting the game because I wanted to and had fun doing it. Now, I frequently find myself ignoring the other games that I like to play or would like to play because "I gotta grind for the rift!!" and that is such a sucky feeling.
It honestly ruins my perspective on the game and the people behind it, as I see less of them, and more of the money grabbing, greedy, faceless company that feeds off our passion for something that was and still is actually kinda cool.
More often than not, when a tome ends I feel liberated, and I savor the weeks between tomes almost as if it's like my "vacation" from the game. I'll still play during that time, but FAR less than what I was when a tome was active, and yet at the same time I'll find that I enjoy the game significantly more during this time despite playing it less. When a new tome starts it's like "well, back to work..." and I think to myself why do I feel this way about a game I really like? That's horrible, and no game should ever make you feel that way where it's almost as if you dread coming back to play it.
If the devs have an ounce of soul and integrity, they'll hopefully do something to change this.
@Madjura said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1635597#Comment_1635597
I've been kind of burnt out on the game lately and started playing other games and as such I'm at the point where I'll need to play 13-14 games per day to finish, which is 2-4 hours per day. It just feels like a chore.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QMPRB2DA0BVI/cover5.jpg
Behaviour when they see that your will is broken and that you are now more likely than before to buy battlepass tiers with money
In the short term, maybe. But eventually it'll backfire, repeated burnout in the long term is not good for the longevity of any game, and eventually that burnout compiles and compounds on top of itself until eventually they lose a player completely. Then a second, and a third, and eventually player counts start dropping, maybe not significantly at first, but noticeably, enough that people take notice and that's when the game and the devs behind it do something to fix their mistakes, or double down and watch everything they've built slowly crumble.
I could just be being dramatic, making a mountain out of a molehill. Then again, every avalanche begins with the movement of a single snowflake.
I dunno, it is what it is. I really hope they do something to fix it- actually I'll set the bar even lower, just to alleviate it, not to fix it.
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@Maperson said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1635408#Comment_1635408
I mean I am talking about his character, not those awful things behind the scenes
Well, sorry to say, but in this line of work (Video games, Movies, and other media) the two are inextricably linked. Especially since the guy who was actually convicted filled those movies with subtle hints and jokes about Molestation and #########, which makes the connection even stronger the reminder even more ever present, and just in general all around even creepier (not in a horror kind of way, in a bad way).
And I know somebody will probably tell me "Freddy Krueger is a pedophile, so why would it matter if Jeepers Creepers makes those subtle allusions to pedophilia?" to which I will readily respond right now, because nobody on the crew least of all the director Wes Craven himself actually do any of those horrible things in real life.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1635321#Comment_1635321
It takes at least a minute to get a first down, because they are good players and not utter morons and will just run away. That means 3 gens done, all in the centre, and another about halfway. 2 players stack on that gen while the last buggers off to a corner with 2 gens in it. If you hooked, they have time to finish it, and it pops, because they have Prove Thyself. If you chained a chase, that slug picks themselves up before you get your second down, because they will just hold W, and they go work on another gen. The solo repairer gets off another gen while you juggle the first 3, because at some point you have to hook at least one, who has UB but keeps 99ing it with SG. Now they have DS and can waste an entire minute of your time. Every time you begin to snowball, UB. And then the last gen has popped because they subbed out the solo repairer, you have 1-2 hooks, and it's only been about 3 minutes.
Time for the doors.
Easy mode, they split up, one to each door, you get a pity kill and 3 people escape. Or, if you didn't use up all the small pp's, 4 escapes.
If you're playing Nurse and it takes you at least a minute to get the first down again, I'd hardly think that's a very good Nurse. A perk like Corrupt Intervention immediately negates the entirety possibility of getting the first 3 gens done within (especially three center ones) the time of the first chase. You're also assuming the map negating the possibility of killer sided maps like azarovs Resting place or The Game where gens are split in the former on either side of the map or between floors in the latter where there is no defined "center" and can easily be chained up. BBQ and Chili lights up showing exactly where the other 3 survivors are after the first down is finished and the Nurse proceeds to mow down at least one person of the three meaning at least one is still hooked and the other is downed before the team has time to respond. If someone instead tries to bum-rush the hook too quickly before the Nurse is completely gone she can easily teleport back and get an easy down on the unhooker (assuming Borrowed Time). From here we've got multiple people injured leading to a snowball effect of people being downed and hooked (not slugging and not tunneling whenever possible to avoid Unbreakable and Decisive, nullifying their use more or less completely.)
Come now, you really think you're the only one who can play this game?
https://youtu.be/QOpjxhNMDoM?t=45Competent, but predictable.
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@Maperson said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1635284#Comment_1635284
I know all that, but he would be kinda cool..
Yeah, I figured as much but it wasn't specified in OP description of the original thread if we were talking "any killer regardless of technical, legal, or other limitations" so I thought it needed to be re-clarified anyway just in case.
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Sorry I didn't see this sooner, I think this is a seriously valid discussion that I think the community should be talking about more frequently. It's entirely within our right as consumers to discuss and criticize a company if they overstep their boundaries by clearly milking their customer base. This I believe, is exactly what is happening in at least one aspect of the rift.
The real problem with the rift is that you can't complete all 70 levels by completing every single challenge. Completing every single challenge all the way to level 4 in a tome only on average gets you to around level 60-65 in my experience as well as from the testimony of other players. (It won't be the same for everyone because everyone spends a different amount of time on challenges, the longer you spend doing challenges the more shards you'll have earned purely because you're playing more. Whereas someone who is really skilled (or just lucky) and blazes through all the challenges may have them completed, but have still spent a less total time earning shards naturally through gameplay so you'll actually have less by the time you finish the rift just because you finished it so quickly).
The real problem is those last few levels, anywhere from the last 5-10 levels you have to grind COMPLETELY on your own without the benefit of finishing challenges to speed up the process. The end is undoubtedly the longest part of the rift and the grind is absolutely god awful long, it takes 10 fragments to finish just one level, even if let's assume you manage to earn one fragment per game (which is unrealistic, nobody performs that well that consistently) you're still looking at playing at the very least a total of 50-100 matches. let's say you are on level 60 and need to get to level 70, 100 matches with let's say 10 minutes per match (they can easily go for shorter or for longer than this, both outcomes affect how much XP you earn toward your shards, but for the sake of simplicity we'll stick to 10 minutes). That means you're spending a total of 1000 minutes grinding, or in other words: 16.67 HOURS. May as well round up to 17 hours considering the time you spend waiting in queue, loading into the match itself, time you spend picking your build or killer, etc.
And that's if you're consistently getting 1 fragment per match! Realistically that's going to vary by quite the large margin, maybe you go up against a Huntress with iridescent head or a pro Nurse, or Spirit, and the game ends extremely early, Maybe you're playing killer and you're lose completely to the 4-Man-SWF-Blendette Squad, or a single person brings a Key in the match, or everyone is running Unbreakable + Decisive Strike and you can't pressure anybody, and you lose the match. Winning and losing has an effect on your shard gain, if you lose, obviously you get less.
So realistically, it's going to take MORE than 17 hours, it might take 25 or 30 instead. Of course this is if you've completed all the levels by tier 60 in the rift, say you're at level 63 instead, that's usually where I find myself when I finish all the levels, around there. 10 rift fragments per level (earned per match) x 7 levels is 70 matches x 10 minute matches is 700 minutes / 60 minutes for every hour and I'll be grinding for at least 12 hours and only if I'm playing PERFECTLY. Likely I'll be spending a similar 15-25 hours to complete it normally.
This isn't fun, this intense grind for shards where I feel like I'm wasting my time playing well beyond what I normally would per day for these last few tiers anywhere between 60-70 is god awful. Even though, I went out of my way to complete every survivor challenge, every killer challenge, every master challenge, and it still feels like I'm getting the shaft. I can only imagine it must be far worse for people who don't play both roles, have every perk unlocked at tier 3 for maximum output and efficiency on at least one character for both killer and survivor, or are super experienced and know the best builds or strategies to complete every challenge.
It's not impossible by any means, (if you've got plenty of FREE TIME) but it sure as damn hell is unsatisfying. As a player there should be some kind of reward for doing every single objective that the devs challenged you to do, you honestly should make it to tier 70 or at the very least something like tier 65-68 and then you grind the last 2-5 levels on your own, instead of 5-10. It frustrates me to no end that this isn't the case and is very clearly and obviously the dev's way of getting you to shell out a few dollars to just buy the remaining tiers for a dollar each rather than waste your time trying to grind endlessly for it.
I get that "they're a business" but seriously, the game is far successful enough on it's own with plenty of other sources of income from chapters, to licensed characters, to cosmetics (some of which can only be bought with real money) and most egregiously "Legendary Skins" (which are no different in quality than the very rare skins that we've been receiving for four years already now) which are 3/4th's the price of the damn base game. They have all this already, there shouldn't be a need to force these last few tiers down the throats of players who took the time and the effort to complete every challenge in all four levels of a Tome.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1635292#Comment_1635292
Wait, you think Nurse is good enough to beat 4-minutes-and-out-the-gates? I've yet to see it, not without the survivors having a massive cock-up or the nurse having an amazing early game and very favourable map. And that's without items. Like it or not, even the strongest killer is reliant on survivors mistakes, just a little differently than normal.
And then 3-4 small pp builds take away the 3-4 cock-ups. Lovely, that.
If survivors are doing generators in 4 minutes against a Nurse I'd hardly believe that's a very good Nurse. You may as well be applying no pressure at all with that given scenario, a Wraith hiding invisible in a corner of the map basically.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1635255#Comment_1635255
No, I just don't give up because someone else told me the killer was bad. Instead, I actually took the time to learn him, practice his power, figure out when and where I can use it, see what add-ons are effective, what maps have little secrets, what tiles he reverses, and how to actually hit survivors that attempt to juke you even around debris.
If you don't get good results with Blight, that's your problem. I'm gonna keep murdering nearly everyone I come across.
Uh, you must have read my comment wrong. That's not what I was laughing at out of the sheer ridiculousness of the claim.
EDIT: To make myself more clear, I've also been getting encouraging results on Blight (I'm almost insulted you immediately assumed otherwise), so that's not what I'm talking about. So re-read what I quoted you on and how I responded.