Seiko300
Seiko300
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@DetailedDetriment said:
He wasn't nerfed or buffed, he was just turned into a braindead killer.
Which either way: nerfed, buffed, or braindead, all of those end results mean further change is required.
A lot of times both the community and the devs put way too much stock in only the balance itself and statistics of how effective a thing is rather than the actual experience of playing. There's a place for both of those things in the game and they should be treated equally because they are of equal worth, both the balance and the experience.
Scott Jund released a great video recently that only sort of loosely directly relates to this thread but definitely indirectly relates to the idea I just mentioned in this post, which I think completes and rounds out that concept better than I could ever type.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD2Dk3kPD3s -
@DARKxVOID said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1705067#Comment_1705067
That's a really good idea for Freddy! But as for the Demogorgon, I think it would be really interesting seeing how the serum would effect it. I can see it becoming unstoppable because it's already an apex predator.
Also it already has a skin with it becoming part of the Entity so I wonder if the Serum would further progress that? Kind of like how the Blight's blight skin is him basically becoming part of the Entity.
I had the idea a long time ago as a normal skin, this was inspired by Freddy's appearance in A Nightmare On Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors, when he's fighting the character of Taryn who used to suffer from drug addiction.
(Of course this image [and in most of the DBD art depicting the Putrid Serum in a syringe] the syringes are full. In order to really show off the liquid moving around inside of them in the actual cosmetic they'd only be half filled.)
Of course yeah, this is Robert Englund and not Jackie Earle Haley's 2010 performance so there'd be some licensing issues here.. But as a Blight Cosmetic inspired by the Blight you'd be able to avoid all that. Either way with all of these suggestions the devs would have to work with the license holders anyway so it is what it is, just an idea.
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@DanielJ said:
After playing him a couple times, I think he's still pretty much just as strong but 8 think he'll be more inconsistent then before since going for the ranged attack is inherently more random wether you'll land the hit or not. Tbh though I think he'll be even more annoying to play as and against now, with how much he's slowed after picking up his sword it feels like a bug tbh, and with how often he's gonna be spamming his ranged attack I can't imagine he'll be more fun to go against either, side note you can still instantly swing after doing rites if you time it right.
"I think he'll be more inconsistent than before since going for the ranged attack is inherently more random whether you'll land the hit or not."
How so?
I do just want to briefly point out, it's not like the devs actually changed anything to prevent a Pyramid Head from just waiting until survivors are locked in animations to attack. It's part of the reason why I disagree with the changes made in the first place, I mean all they really did was reduce his cooldown to "encourage" PH's to use Punishment of the Damned more often in a match outside of those scenarios where a survivor is stuck vaulting a window or pallet, or dropping the latter.
This doesn't mean a single thing about whether or not it will actually happen though, and I want to make that abundantly clear. This change has made virtually no impact on actually changing how Pyramid Head plays, the devs don't seem to know or care that all they've done is make it so that Pyramid Head's are rewarded at all times for just using their power at any point. Regardless of whether or not it was a skilled predicted shot through multiple obstacles, or the same classic amateurish window shot that they claim they want players to move away from.
Either way, in both cases the cooldown has been reduced, really there's no reason at all to stop from always going for those classic hits where survivors are locked in animation. Unless your new plan is to start spamming punishment of the damned to zone survivors for free into a corner until eventually you get a hit, which is something thew new changes have entirely enabled Pyramid Head players to do, intentionally or otherwise. So really you can do both at no cost or punish to yourself at all through the match.
And if by "more inconsistent" you're not referring to guaranteed hits at windows but just hits in general, likely thinking of the delay where the warning shows up on the ground before the attack actually hits (I think this lasts some 0.6 seconds so it's not as long as people think) I don't think this makes his power inconsistent at all. This is in fact no different from certain shooters who have weapons with faster and slower projectile speeds, when using a weapon with a slower projectile speed, you typically want to lead your target first, firing where you expect them to be rather than where they are so that the projectile has time to travel that distance to meet its moving target.
In this way, Pyramid's Punishment of the Damned much like any ranged killer (or attack [except Plague's Corrupt Purge but that's a different story...]) requires a certain level of skill and practice to use and hit. Which is kind of an obvious statement, but I say that to make clear a point that a skill floor which requires a certain level of practice on the part of the player in order to use is by no means the same thing as "inconsistent". Otherwise for example, Nurse would be considered a wildly inconsistent killer, but we know for a fact she's not she's just one of if not the hardest killer to learn and use effectively which requires practice, not that she's inconsistent.
Or at least "requires a certain level of skill and practice" is how it should be, but given all the different issues of Pyramid Head really only ever going for "reliable hits" when survivors are locked in animation for whatever reason, and the free downs under threat of M1 or POD, it's all a mess. That's why we're talking about this after all.
But please, if you meant something else by the word "inconsistent" and that overall sentence or still think that he is inconsistent after reading through what I wrote then by all means, enlighten me.
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@Blazelski said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1702277#Comment_1702277
I'm not really sure what to say about you calling my remembered experiences exaggerations/blown out of proportion. I think you just had a vastly different experience than I did when I was playing it. That's a possibility that it's okay to entertain. Also, the rose-tinted glasses could be a significant part of why so many people agreed with you. The Hallowed Blight is gone, and I know what I had when it was happening. Anyway, I've seen you on the forums a bit, and we largely agree on most things, so I look forward to when we can agree again.
True, fair enough.
And I mean sure, regardless of whether or not you think it's the absolute worst by comparison is a bit of a bold claim (though a well substantiated one). But I think most everyone can agree that either this event was poorly executed, or, that the the devs simply didn't make something of the quality that people expected.
In any of the three cases: whether or not you think it was the worst, or if it was just really bad and poorly executed, or perhaps you were simply just disappointed because you were expecting more. Either way, none of these are even remotely positive reactions from most of the entirety of the community (especially those who have the experience to look back on for comparison) and that's a bad thing. The fact that we're talking about a spectrum of negativity from a large portion if not a significantly obvious majority of the community rather than different opinions on whether it's good or bad, I think is extremely telling.
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I think everybody is curious about how the Blight would affect Demogorgon. I think there would be a lot of creative liberty and freedom to see how it twists and corrupts a creature (that isn't human) like that.
Really close second would be Freddy though. I think that it'd be really cool to see his claws turn into syringes full of the Blight Serum, with the Putrid Serum actually inside the syringes have physics that sees the liquid slosh around in response to how Freddy moves and depending on his actions like vaulting a window or attacking a survivor. When he hits a survivor it'd be cool to see a little bit of the amber substance squirt out during the cooldown animation.
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@CzechMate said:
Apart from the login bonuses it's pretty much impossible to tell that anything has changed at all. Event my ass.
This ^
Look, I won't lie I do appreciate the devs doing at the very least something to patch up their mistakes but this doesn't really fix the problem, at least not the problem that I perceived / focused on.
I was talking about it on the DBD discord and somebody went "ugh, you guys always looking for a reason to complain and never happy about anything". To which I responded look: I never asked for a free giveaway, I asked for an event.
I know some people were made really happy with this change and they say "it's even better because you don't have to grind for anything!" but that's such a surface level way to look at things. I really do care more about and put more value in the experience of the event itself, rather than the rewards that you reap from them. Skins are cool, the art team is amazing, nobody doubts that, but it's about the journey not the destination, again the point of an event is to actually be an event, to change up the gameplay and provide a different experience for the player.
I finished the "Halloween" part of the first tome within a single day. After that there really is no reason or point to use the Visceral Canker offerings, somebody might tell me "they provide bloodpoints!" yeah they provide bloodpoints, but the scoring event is like what 4,000 BP or something? Sure that's a lot for any single action, but even 4,000 BP pales in comparison to the amount of BP you get from using straight up BP offerings which multiply the amount of BP you earn in an entire category. So even for Bloodpoints the new, functionally-useless, visceral cankers are woefully inept, I love that they brought them back because they were so cool the first year, I hate that they completely destroyed what they are.
Not to mention, the lack of grind is a double edged sword. You don't have to grind at all, but you don't have anywhere near the amount of gain that you did with the grind. You get exactly half of what you could have gotten during the Hallowed Blight or Withering Blight events, in both of those you could have potentially earned two full Blight outfits, I know I was able to get my favorite ones from the collection this way, I got Trapper and Wraith the first year, and I got Hillbilly (which was released the previous year) and Clown the following year (and that same year I also got the Blighted Nurse because she was part of the free track of the rift). This year, they're reducing the shard cost from a premium price tag to 9,000 shards, and they're providing players who log in every single day of the event (for like some 10+ days in a row) with only 10,000 shards, so just enough to buy one cosmetic even if you miss one or two days depending.
In short, I think some people are way too quick to "forgive and forget" BHVR for their mistake this year, and I absolutely agree with you @CzechMate that in all reality, it has really hardly changed at all. It's certainly not something the community should let them live down, not now, and not when the next "event" rolls around.
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@White_Owl said:
I don't think it's unbalanced though. Before you could use the power only if you were 100% sure it would land, because otherwise the survivor had the time to go to Narnia before you were able to move again, and as an attack it is pretty telegraphed so it isn't rare for survivors to dodge. That is what lead killer to use the fakes more than the actual power. Now that the killer is not punished so harshly there is more interaction with the survivor, and that is good.
This is by far an over-exaggeration and a common but huge misconception with how his power actually worked. I can tell you exactly how far a survivor could run.
The original cooldown was 2.75 seconds if I remember correctly, as we all know survivors move at a static 4m/s while running. Which means if they ran perfectly straight without deviating even slightly or vaulting any windows or dropping pallets, that survivor would have gained 11 meters of distance.
4 m/s X 2.75 seconds of cooldown = 11 meters of distance.
I wouldn't exactly call 11 meters "the time to go to Narnia". Especially in fact, when you consider that Punishment of The Damned has a range of 8 Meters. So you're looking at an actual distance of true safety of exactly 3 meters. Only.
Assuming that survivor continues to run and maintain that 3 meter gain, divide that by the 0.6m/s that Killers gain over survivors (since Pyramid Head is a normal 115% movement speed killer moving at 4.6m/s) and you have a grand total of 5 seconds before you're in range of Punishment of The Damned again.
3 meters / 0.6 m/s (rate of change) = 5 seconds before being within reach of POD.
5 Seconds of safety. That is the "drastic" punish Pyramid Head gets for missing punishment of the Damned. And this isn't me pulling the wool over anyone's eyes like people try to do with Decisive Strike and they say "it's just a 5 second stun!" but what they don't tell you is that's 5 seconds of distance which is 20 meters which is actually some 30 seconds for a killer to catch up to a survivor moving in a straight line. No, keep in mind what we just found that 5 seconds is the time it takes for a Pyramid Head standing still to catch up to a survivor who ran 11 meters and be within range of hitting Punishment of the Damned.
And this is only if they move in a perfectly straight line, which we know many players either don't by choice or by force because of the map, whatever.
The difference being, it's no longer 2.75 seconds. NOW the cooldown has been reduced to 2.25 seconds. So scrub all the numbers and start over, but I'll tell you the answer right away survivors can now only potentially get a grand total of 9 meters of distance. In other words 1 meter of true safety and in other words less than 2 seconds before a survivor is within range of Punishment of the Damned again.
I would argue wholeheartedly this is not good. At all. And that this is way more unbalanced than it should be.
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@Blazelski said:
One thing we all have to keep in mind is some of the problems that the original Hallowed Blight event had. Anyone remember losing every game as survivor because people would do cankers rather than generators? Remember when they would fill their vial and then kill themselves to get to the next game to get another vial?
The Hallowed Blight was certainly the most "event-y" event, but it was also horrific for game health for its duration. The game part of DBD was put on the backburner...
Now, the Eternal Blight is definitely terrible as far as feeling "event-y," but at least it doesn't hugely disturb the game that DBD is.
I'm not defending their greed or lack of creativity necessarily, but let's try not to remember the Hallowed Blight event with rose-colored glasses. It was its own kind of cancer.
I do remember. All too well. Because people will never drop it. I wrote about it recently in fact a couple days ago:
@Seiko300 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1692600#Comment_1692600
I've heard that said so many times and to tell you the truth in retrospect, the problems that people bring up about the first event (suicides to get into next match quicker and not doing gens) were completely overhyped and exaggerated. This is one of the few things in DBD History that I remain firm that the community gave bad and poor feedback on, as it resulted in one of the most underwhelming events the following year during arguably DBD's most important month of the year. The distinct lack of anything fun or unique from the following withering blight (the event being reduced to a "do reskinned generators" like the first few lunar new year or Summer BBQ events) was far more problematic than anything from its predecessor.
I'm not trying to pat myself on the back when I say this, but I do want to provide the context that it appeared many people agreed with me. 15 people upvoted that comment.
Rose-tinted glasses my butt, I remember very distinctly during the first hallowed blight event, even before the withering blight came out that I just couldn't agree with the people who were talking bad about what was truly a well crafted event. The people who were committing suicide during their matches to get into the next? They were doing more harm to themselves than good, members of the community really quickly found out that you would earn more Putrid Serum and do so more quickly by actually staying in your matches and potentially survivor. This was because a penalty was applied if you died or disconnected you would not earn all the serum that you gained you'd earn maybe half of that, or it would be rounded down (there were two markers on the vials). When people realized that disconnecting or committing suicide was more of a hindrance, most survivors stopped trying to do that.
Again, to summarize, the issues with the Hallowed Blight were blown far out of proportion and greatly exaggerated, especially by comparison. You say be careful not to look at it with "rose-tinted glasses" but I say "you don't know what you have until it is gone" and what we had, was a truly great, unique, atmospheric, fun, event. One of that exceeded in numerous categories from gameplay, to music, to overall theme, etc.
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@Cornpopers_Evan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1698960#Comment_1698960
First, Nemesis is most certainly not minor league, whatsoever. He comes from arguably one of, if not the MOST popular gaming horror franchise out there and he’s most certainly a recognizable character. Once again, arguably, the MOST recognizable enemy/boss from that series alongside Mr. X. I’ve also seen plenty of people asking for a Resi chapter. The wendigo I do have to agree with though, it’s not talked about as much plus, the real big issue is Sony on that one. The only big problem with Chucky is his height and they would most certainly find a way around that if they got him in. Probably through levitation and possession or something. I do agree with Jack though. He’s got the problem of literally just being a guy who went crazy though they gave a power to Legion. No, the real big issue is Stephen, he just doesn’t see the value in crossing over with games.
Now, I highly disagree about Springtrap, because, simply, we will NEVER be able to fully pinpoint just how the community is going to react. You can say they’d be opposed while I can sit here and say that the forums and Reddit or whatever, though it may not seem like it, are actually a very vocal minority. Keep in mind, there are 20 million players that play dbd and, it continues to grow. So, who are we to say just how those people would react? Once again, anyone could say that the majority of the community would be outraged but I could say that the vocal minority would but the majority would be just fine and happy with the addition.
For the rest of those picks, first, there’s only so many options they allow on a poll, which, they should fix but ultimately, characters have major ups and downs when it comes to talking points. While yes, some are definitely more accepted, such as characters like Jason, I still see some saying that they’d rather NOT see those characters or find ways to “debunk” those picks. Such as Predator, it would make since yes, to a degree but they haven’t taken the plunge into heavy sci-fi yet, which, I view Predator more as action sci-fi then horror, plus, he has his own game that still relatively new, also, I’ll be honest, I barely see Predator talked about much. The xeno is always in high demand but, once again, the predator game would probably be the first place we’d see the xeno guess star in. Now, for Candy,an and Pinhead, omce again, in MY experience, I’ve seen a resounding “meh” to “they make sense to be added” with a few “I’d love their inclusion” thrown in there. Yet again, it’s what I’ve seen and like I previously said, we just don’t know what the greater consensus is on some of these characters is besides Jason, Pennywise and, debatably Xeno.
Once again, I disagree, these are ALL realistic options. Could’ve OP added a couple more? Sure could but to say “OP already made a poll that isn't completely based on the most realistic options in the first place” that’s a bit harsh. A unrealistic option would be someone like Jeepers Creepers, for obvious reasons if you know the backstory about the director. Now THAT’S a unrealistic option.
Anyways, that’s my TED talk and, yeah, I have a LOT to say on licenses! lol
Alright, fine. I'll submit to you that I'm really just not all that personally invested in / familiar with Nemesis or just the Resident Evil franchise in general. However I can most certainly still argue that despite DBD likely heading into new directions, horror movie licenses are, generally speaking, the most popular picks when it comes to licenses. They're also some of the oldest recommendations from the Dead By Daylight community, and it's not necessarily fair to sweep them to the wayside especially considering the popularity of these characters in favor of the new "trending" ideas that come and go and wax and wane, which aren't as consistent.
I agree, if the devs are truly committed to the idea of seeking out and including the Chucky license they would find a way to do it, hell, I have ideas about how they could do it which would also make the game and it's characters more interesting, and distinct. However, the question then becomes are they committed to obtaining the Chucky license? My answer to that is no, regardless of whether or not they could solve it the problem still stands that his height is a significant obstacle to his conclusion and it would still be difficult and take a lot of resources to work around. As it stands it's far more likely that the devs will continue to release chapters that are less technically challenging or that pose less of an issue towards base mechanics and balance like Chucky does.
I highly disagree with your disagreement for Springtrap. I think you're missing the point, obviously you won't ever get the community to universally agree on any chapter, but the Fnaf chapter specifically has been opposed to a level BEYOND what most chapters see. Of the polls and responses I've seen, it's not exactly rare to see the opposition outweigh the proponents, and frequently it's a topic that keeps the community split nearly 50/50 at it's lowest 60/40. Even at it's lowest 40% disliking the idea to varying degrees of intensity (some are extremely frustrated that this is even a suggestion) that is not good. The 50/50 even worse, and the potential that opponents for Springtrap outweigh proponents straight up puts nails in the coffin. Having nearly half (or more than) of your playerbase (or at least half of the people talking about the subject) not like something that you release is extremely bad for business. You want a very solid majority liking the product you're producing and anything less than that is a risky move. These are just straight up facts, Springtrap and Fnaf as a whole is a controversial addition, people don't like it, more so than any other addition I've seen actually make it into the game, and this is absolutely a significant factor when it comes to choosing what makes it into the game, whether you yourself like it or not.
There's a maximum of 10 poll options. Clearly this isn't enough all the time, but OP had six poll options and the list I provided was only 5, (six if you count Jason) so OP still could have fit in most of those characters into the original poll.
Aside from that as for the rest, I would argue that's exactly the reason why Predator should make it into Dead By Daylight, and the Xenomorph too for that matter, actually more so the Xenomorph than the Predator just because I think the latter fits better with consideration to a similar killer already in the roster - Demogorgon. Dead By Daylight is a cornocupia of Horror genres and stories all under the umbrella of Slashers. I've previously gone through a long list of different genres of horror and the things that Dead By Daylight distinctly lacks representation of are Sci-Fi horror (with emphasis on Scientific or otherworldy elements), Gothic Horror (with emphasis on Tragedy and Romantic elements, typically vintage), and Holiday Horror (a connection to a specific holiday IE Christmas, Valentine's Day, etc.). All of these either have only one chapter representing them or no chapters, and since we're already going on Chapter 18 upcoming those are really small numbers.
Sci Fi horror most specifically and especially is a part of the genre that is deeply ingrained in Horror History and has a lot of relevance in the modern version of horror. Of the three mentioned it arguably is the most significant and impactful, and it's a real shame that DBD has either not delved into making multiple of their own original Sci-Fi or licensing these great properties out. Though it is worth mentioning that the most recent Chapter 17 the Descend Beyond chapter is most definitely a Sci Fi Horror chapter, Talbot Grimes (The Blight) is the Alchemist, and his dangerous and ruthless pursuit of knowledge beyond accepted human limits becomes his obsession and his downfall, sort of a-la Victor Frankenstein. But again, one chapter out of almost eighteen (not to mention the paragraph[s]) is hardly anything.
As for the Predator last I heard the game was a flop and poorly received. Although the concept was really cool the game itself suffered from numerous problems, like gameplay for the mercenaries was extremely surface level, the Predator suffered from balance issues of either being far too weak and easy to spot, or far too strong if you selected the heavy predator and just literally straight up went in and dived on the mercenaries with the staff which you could do as early in a match as you wanted really. Among a myriad of bugs, horrible queue times, server issues, etc. It looks like the game won't last too long (if it's even still alive today), so I hardly consider this to be a real viable reason for why Predator wouldn't be available for Dead By Daylight, even LESS for the Xenomorph there's no way the game will be successful enough to warrant pouring more money into the game with a license like Alien when the game still suffers from so many bugs and balance issues already. They'd be putting out more broken content.
I disagree that I was being harsh at all, I was telling it how it was. Especially if you notice my use of the word "completely", as in "at the very least one of the poll options wasn't realistic, therefore it's not completely based on the most realistic options".
But yes, your example of Jeepers Creepers is a slightly better example of what is truly unrealistic. But then again, notice I never said the poll options were impossible, I just said they weren't "completely based on the most realistic options".
Sorry for my even longer TED talk, I too have a lot to say about licenses. Heh.
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I'll agree that it had it's charm, but I'd like to see what the devs do with all the maps before reversing any changes. Maybe after they go through all of them they add a little bit of that original color back distinguish them a little more. Really though it's not something that I will truly miss, the change is part of the new more realistic direction / vision for Dead By Daylight, although I get that people don't like change just generally speaking, but I'm sure most will come around to it.
So for me it's a "not for now or anytime soon" kind of situation / answer.
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One of the best and most memorable events in the entirety of Dead By Daylight by far.
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"pretty sure I got ones that have been mostly talked about recently."??!
You missed like, every single one of actual significance. All the ones you put in the poll options are the minor league options (Nemesis / Wendigo), and / or have significant problems (Chucky / Jack Torrence), and / or serious opposition to their inclusion (Springtrap).
Where's the Xenomorph from Alien? Pennywise? Candyman? Pinhead? Predator? All of these I feel are infinitely and universally more well liked and wanted than anybody in the poll options.
And I know you said you weren't adding Jason to the list because of the problems of the Lawsuit but characters like Chucky have their own problems too, so OP already made a poll that isn't completely based on the most realistic options in the first place.
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BIG yes.
This is something I have been asking for for a long time now. Keys should function exactly like BNP's, there will be a hatch opening animation when using a key, and it should make a decent amount of noise as the heavy metal locking mechanism slowly gives way, which provides a little bit of counterplay to alert the killer and give time to act. The killer can interrupt this action at any point, if the action is interrupted the key is permanently broken. This would FORCE survivors to be far more careful and meticulous with how they go about attempting to escape through a closed hatch, and ultimately would provide a far more interesting dynamic in the game compared to what we currently have now.
However unfortunately, I am not able to pick any response, since the poll options were loaded. The assumption being the entire community mains either one side or the other, I play both sides equally, and I like both sides equally for different reasons, with no significant preference toward one or the other (really what I feel like playing that day [more often than not it's just what I pick to start playing and then I'll eventually switch roles at some point]).
@Gibberish said:
I think Keys should be removed entirely along with Moris.
Then keys would never be removed, because moris are most definitely not being removed. Mori's (regardless of their role in gameplay) have the same cultural relevance and significance in Dead By Daylight as do Fatalities in Mortal Kombat, or Executions in For Honor. They contribute to the horror and tone of Dead By Daylight and that's not something the devs would ever just remove on a whim.
Like it or not, it's more than likely that both keys and moris will remain in the game forever, so it's up to the community to provide the best feedback possible to make them as fair as possible.
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@Justalittlepeeck said:
Let me list all disappointments people had this patch. Feel free to add more if I miss some. Of course there weren't only disappointments and the patch had a lot of positive and cool things, however let's discuss negative stuff here.
- No event currency or free way to get halloween skins
- Never Stop Slashing not having mask animations despite the fact it is possible to implement such (look at Oni f/e) and is missing a lot of details from the sketch everybody voted for (like colour of the coat)
- Spirit shadownerf
- Discordance needless nerf + dumb distance requirement to force people tier up the perk
- Discordance nerf was made as a surprise and wasn't listed in PTB patchnotes, so people didn't have an opportunity to give any feedback on its changes.
- Console framerate issues
- Killer's event addon is event only, but survivor's ones could be used even after event expires.
- Macmillan maps generation is bugged.
- Groaning storehouse borderline OP window
- Shelter woods are still shelter woods
- Thanatophobia phobia nerfed more than buffed
- We are going to live forever having less amount of ways to earn tokens (Head On saves don't give tokens f/e)
- Pyramidhead nerf that horribly crippled him and his camera
- Killer having weird models and animations when spawning in the trial
I would disagree with three things out of the list and I actually have videos to support why on two of them.
"Spirit Shadow Nerf"
Spirit has had something like this coming for a long while now. Intentional or not, this really isn't a bad change and finally introduces legitimate counterplay for a killer that has had extremely limited if any counterplay at all. Spirit has always had all the information whereas survivors have had none, so the ability for survivors to intermittently hear a directional audio cue (which the spirit can EASILY use to her advantage) is something that is actually extremely healthy for the game. Scott Jund does a way better job at explaining this than I do though and he does it in about five minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlOUm7lu7Wk"Thanatophobia nerfed more than buffed"
This I disagree with from personal experience. I was on yesterday and I saw some truly disgusting and unfun builds come from the new Thanatophobia. Mostly / most especially from three killers: Legion, Plague, and Oni.
Almost everyone I went up against was running some combination of Thana, Ruin, Dying Light, Undying, or sometimes all of the above, and it's not like these are the only disgusting synergies there are plenty more that I know of and I'm sure more that I am not yet aware of. Thanatophobia and Ruin by themselves are a huge synergy after the change where now thanatophobia also affects TOTEM speeds. So it also serves as a totem protector perk now, so you've got slower gen. repair speed, increased regression, and then slower totem cleansing to protect Hex: Ruin providing that increased regression.
On top of a killer that can consistently keep you injured like Legion who can undoubtedly injure all four survivors in the shortest amount of time or Plague who can keep survivors injured because of the broken status effect (or get free corrupt purge, the most aggressive damaging killer ability in the entire game) and you're literally a powerhouse. In my personal opinion, not in a good "oh man this guy is doing a great job at applying pressure and he's powerful because of it" kind of way but in bad a "he's basically receiving free pressure due to the nature of his ability and the borderline unbalanced synergy of the perks he's running" kind of way.
And that's only two perks, HALF the loadout and you're already incredibly strong. Add Hex: Undying to the mix and not only will you be slower at cleansing Hex: Undying because of Thana which now synergizes with all Hex: perks, but Hex: Undying Protects ruin and can keep the train going for the entire game. Thana protects -> Hex: Undying protects -> Hex: Ruin. Add Dying Light to the mix and it can be nearly impossible to repair generators against a killer that's applying even a mediocre amount of pressure.
Synergy is good. But this is just too much.
"Pyramid Head nerf that horribly crippled him and his camera"
This I absolutely disagree with. Pyramid Head is light years away from being crippled and saying so is honestly deliberately misleading. If anything, the Pyramid Head change was a misguided attempt to fix a legitimate issue (free downs under threat of either M1 or POD is blatantly unbalanced, and not fun. Fight me.) but they went about it completely the wrong way and I would go so far as to say this was actually a shadow BUFF.
Not only did they not fix the problem they set out to change (you can still fake Trail of Torment and then cancel the animation switching to M1 thus resulting in the same problem previously, the only thing the change accomplished was change the timing which is something players can easily adapt to) but they buffed how quickly you recover from POD, an attack that literally ignores all collision and obstacles and is much easier to hit by comparison to other ranged attacks (like Deathslinger's Redeemer or Huntress's Hatchets) because you're only aiming on a horizontal axis.
All this does is it's going to ENCOURAGE Pyramid Head players to spam Punishment Of The Damned as often as possible. Hit or miss it doesn't matter since the cooldown is absolutely ridiculously quick. The distance a survivor gains after either is absolutely negligible and they are put in danger of being hit again almost immediately. Even more so if Pyramid Head has that survivor pressed against a loop in a corner with nowhere really to run all he has to do is keep. spamming. POD. The devs basically made Pyramid Head less skillful to play as, less fun to play against, and even more unbalanced than he was before, because now not only does he still have the same tool he did before of free downs under threat of M1 or POD with an animation cancel, but he has quicker recovery from Punishment of the Damned, an aggressive chase tool that was ALREADY powerful to begin with.
It's impossible to conceive that Pyramid Head was nerfed at all, even SLIGHTLY. To prove this, Otzdarva makes the exact same point during a match he played yesterday of the new Pyramid Head that lasted less than 10 minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_XJJWslzYII want to make clear I wholeheartedly agree with every single other point made on the list. Not bringing back the time-limited event currency of the Putrid Serum and removing the entire aspect of the ability to earn rewards also removes any motivation to actually play during the event itself. THE ARCHIVES DO NOT SUBSTITUTE FOR ACTUAL EVENTS @DEVS. The eternal blight is arguably the worst event of the three blight events and that's absolutely impressive considering the negative reception and backlash the Withering Blight was, and it's arguably the worst event in the entire history of DBD.
Not to mention, if that statement is true this means that the Blight events have been progressively getting WORSE every single year, first being undoubtedly the best, most engaging, most fun, most immersive, with the best story, the best music, the best theme and atmosphere, best decorated lobby, etc. The second being a clear downgrade with little theme and atmosphere, no change in gameplay, after the removal of the visceral cankers being substituted with reskinned generators (this is no more FUN than normal gameplay nor is it INTERESTING), the story and lore was lackluster serving only to seemingly wrap up the story arch of the Alchemist rather than expand and / or answer the mystery of the Blight itself, but at the very least the Withering Blight still provided a goal to work toward. The Eternal Blight brings back the beloved visceral cankers, but removes all motivation to chase them down and harvest them since they are only worth bloodpoints and all ties to a reward system for them have been completely cut with the removal of the vial you would fill with Putrid Serum. With no rewards to work for, there is no Blight event, there are only reskinned generators (which are functionally NO different from normal generators) and visceral cankers which are absolutely worthless.
I always said the Never Stop Slashing cosmetic never had any technical limitations, that was clearly a pure and blatant lie and evidence can be seen throughout the entire game. The original premise of the cosmetic is supposed to change based on different actions and conditions (that's what MADE the cosmetic cool, that's WHY people voted for it) when the legion activates feral frenzy, the Mask changes expression when the Legion is stunned the expression changes, when the legion Mori's the expression changes again, etc. so on and so forth. OP provides the example of the entire character of the Oni, whose entire BODY changes when Yamoaka's Wrath, but not only this the perk Spirit Fury activates when a certain condition is met. When a pallet is dropped on you the pallet breaks immediately, how is that technically any different from making a mask change expression when a pallet stun occurs? The Blight has two different stun animations, when you're stunned with a pallet he raises his arm in defense, when he's stunned with head-on, he leans against his cane, HOW is this functionally any different. The answer: IT'S NOT.
Discordance nerf was absolutely needless. I agree. Not only that but doing this behind the community's back completely strips away the purpose of the PTB to begin with, to test out different changes and provide feedback.
Killers event item being time limited for the event but not the survivor equivalent absolutely displays a bias and double standard, the SAME double standard we already saw when Pop Goes the Weasel was nerfed but Decisive Strike (which is most definitely far more unbalanced) still hasn't been changed. Regardless of whether or not the Pop nerf was warranted, and regardless of whether or not it was an impactful change that really affected the viability of the perk, it's about the principle. In both situations the event add-ons and the perk changes, survivors are held up to a different standard, while killers get the shaft.
Etc. So on and so forth. I truly could go on and on about what makes this update and this event so frustrating, but I'm going to force myself to put a cork in it at least for this comment because it's getting too long.
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@SCP_FOR_DBD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1692996#Comment_1692996
I always appreciate you taking the time to write a long thought out post, though I might sometimes disagree. I personally think Doctor Who has enough horror elements with stuff like the vashta nerada and especially weeping angels, though I can see the logic with it not having enough horror to be seriously considered. On a different note, the fact someone said Saw wasn't actually horror astounds me; even if it is just torture porn (Which is highly debatable), that would still count as a form of horror right?
I sometimes feel like I spend too much time writing and / or thinking about my posts, so it's nice to hear that appreciation. I will admit I've never actually seen Doctor Who so it's possible that I'm not as informed about that bit of media as I could be, but at the same time it's not like I'm unaware or unfamiliar with it, far from it. I recognize maybe there might be the slightest twinge of horror through aspects of story like the concept of The Weeping Angels, The Silence, etc. But I have seen clips from the show and it really is primarily just a Sci-Fi, there's even a bit of comedy sprinkled in based on the personalities of all the different doctors. Far from anything I would expect to see in Dead By Daylight.
On that second note, somebody else backed me up in that particular discussion and mentioned that Gore is part of horror, after that the conversation kinda spiraled into different directions. I don't think he was right by any means, although he certainly had a valid point that SAW eventually at some point during the franchise started putting far more emphasis on the elaborate traps that cause creative and grotesque deaths than on the more "traditional" horror elements, like suspense and tension. Although one could certainly say there's plenty of tension and suspense once the traps are activated and you see the characters struggle for their very lives. I guess what he was thinking of was the more quiet uneasiness of a killer stalking his victim in the night in the suburbs, or camp grounds, or in your dreams, rather than the really loud in your face visuals, music, and intensity that SAW definitely puts prominence on. But that's definitely just personal preference (which I would agree with by the way) and not really relevant in terms of whether or not SAW is horror, it most certainly is and horror definitely covers both the loud and intense, as well as the quiet uneasiness.
Too much thought definitely went into that last paragraph on what was basically just a side-bar, passingly mentioned comment in my original post.
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There's a blurry line between what the DBD community counts as "horror" and what doesn't. I was just talking to a guy in the official DBD discord who refused to accept that SAW was a horror franchise (something about "it's not horror it's just torture porn after the second movie").
Personally I don't consider Stranger Things to be Horror, it's a Sci-Fi that may have a few horror elements here and there, especially in regards to the Demogorgon. Bill Overbeck is all about shooting into hordes of undead but it's still technically "Zombie Horror". And most obviously Ash Vs. Evil Dead has a highly comedic tone, but technically it still does count as "Comedy Horror" which yes, is a real genre.
Long story short DBD has already dabbled a little bit in at the very least having a more loose description of what fits into the game and what doesn't. As long as it has horror elements in it, even if it's not pureblooded horror like Halloween or Friday the 13th, it can probably be adapted to Dead By Daylight save for a few exceptions. It really has to be taken as a case by case basis.
But I want to be clear that certainly not "everything" is free range. Dead By Daylight's core identity of being an extremely popular asymmetrical horror multiplayer game is one that has lead to its success, and one that I know for sure the devs agree is something they want to preserve. The example OP gave of Doctor Who in Dead By Daylight? Absolutely not. Never in a million years.
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I seriously can't believe we were lucky enough to see Ghostface get an actual blight cosmetic. I'm so glad that out of all the business partners DBD has worked with the best relationship they have is with the license holders for Ghostface. Absolutely an amazing skin and it's fantastic that Ghostface paves the way for future licenses who might get more cosmetics, and maybe even original designs like blight cosmetics.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1692832#Comment_1692832
^ this.
From my experience, the matches were fine during the 2018-event. The only annoying thing was that Killer queues were really, really terrible until they made Serum available for both roles (at first it was 30 Serums per Role, they changed it to 60 overall), but thats it.
And the 2019-Event was quite disappointing, because the Offering only provided Bonus-BPs (and even 1k less per Gen/Hook than the year before). And if an event Offering just gives 3k BPs per Gen or Hook, they can better make a Double-BP Event.
But sadly, the opinion that the matches were bad at the 2018-event (which was not true from my experience), probably removed the option of having it again.
Exactly! The only real noteworthy problem about the event were the seriously long killer queue times and the intense grind for the serum, both of which were actually fixed during the middle of the event with a single smart change. The ability to earn serum from both roles alleviated the how long the grind was and allowed you to play your preferred role doing it, and significantly improved killer queue times dramatically.
At the end of the day the most important thing for an event to do in order to succeed as an event is to change up the pace of gameplay from the normal tried and tested gameplay that we always experience more than 80% of the year. If it doesn't do anything to notable to shift the pace of the game (IE: Doing Reskinned Generators) it is hardly worth actually playing because it's not exactly an event. All that does is give you glorified "targets" to hit out of your objectives and that's absolutely no different from what we do on a regular basis.
The Hallowed Blight and Lunar New Year Moonrise event were my favorite events for this reason, the Visceral Cankers from the former which added a unique gameplay element and created an atmosphere in Dead By Daylight that the entity was undergoing it's yearly "purge" of the blight, and especially the Lunar Lanterns that you had to capture and carry out as you escape were some of the best and most memorable events from Dead By Daylight's history.
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@Pricefield said:
You mean the serum from flowers? That event was a mess of people commiting suicide and not doing gens
I've heard that said so many times and to tell you the truth in retrospect, the problems that people bring up about the first event (suicides to get into next match quicker and not doing gens) were completely overhyped and exaggerated. This is one of the few things in DBD History that I remain firm that the community gave bad and poor feedback on, as it resulted in one of the most underwhelming events the following year during arguably DBD's most important month of the year. The distinct lack of anything fun or unique from the following withering blight (the event being reduced to a "do reskinned generators" like the first few lunar new year or Summer BBQ events) was far more problematic than anything from its predecessor.
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I'm fairly certain it's a bug that isn't intentional, purely for the fact that not everybody got the same amount of cells.
Some people got a full 1k (I got this amount, equal to about 10$)
Some people only got literally 50 cells (literally 50 cents)
and some people didn't get anything at all.
I will let you know that people are taking advantage of this immediately, some people are worried it'll be patched out ASAP so they're using their cells they got on whatever right away. The devs can't really take away what you've already spent in the first place. Many people also reasonably don't think that'll happen, the cells have already been dealt out so I assume it'd be pretty difficult to just take them back, especially without making a mistake and taking back more than they intended from people who already had cells in their accounts to begin with. Even if the devs could take it away with or without some difficulty, if they're nice people and not super greedy, they'll just laugh it off and let the few who got cells enjoy them as a one-time-thing, behind the scenes they'll probably be moving quick to make sure it doesn't happen again though.
Do what you will with your free cells guys and gals. Enjoy em (while you can?) because this is very certainly a rare occurrence.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
This is rather unfortuantely a bug but if it became a feature I would not be complaining.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1691899#Comment_1691899
So ya know her passive wwwOOOOAHAHAAAAaaaAAOAOOOOAAAHhhh noises? yeah you can hear those.
How did I hear that perfectly after reading this post
Lmao
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I agree with Twistedmonkey and MandyTalk over there, we already knew this would happen well in advance.
Not to mention, there are some absolutely fantastic cosmetics that came through in the rift: premium or free track that would be a real shame if future players just never got access to it. A massive amount of cosmetics have been added to the game purely because of the rift's existence, and if people were angry about a few exclusives from cons and different events before, there would be much more to be angry about if the devs held back access to the rift's rewards forever.
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@JephKaplan said:
So my game crashed yesterday and i got a 15 min penalty straight away no dc before that, now my game crashes today and that penalty is 30 mins.... mind explaining what kind of bullshit that is? Not to mention ever since the dc penalties are back killers bring the most bullshit of add ons and then just camp or hard tunnel, even had a game where an oni cornered 1 of my teammates and kept him there literally all game since he didn't want to dc. Playing solo q at red ranks is literal hell i don't even care about dying i just want a fun game...
That Oni thing is called holding the game hostage. That is a serious bannable offense, and regardless of the circumstance (dc vs no dc penalties) that shouldn't be happening. If he held a survivor in a corner for the entire game and waited until all gens were done for the endgame collapse to start and kill the player, you should have reported that player. That is well beyond the normal bounds of toxicity, that's just being a petty and ######### person who is trying to ruin the game by singling a player out and keeping them captive.
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It's definitely one of the teammate related ones. If the killer chases me and downs me fairly (or "unfairly") that's at least something I have a measure of control over, if I made a mistake that caused my being downed, yeah, that's obviously on me and that's a learning experience to do better next time. Not even the Mori off first hook thing gets me, just because if I'm mori'd after being unhooked first two minutes of the match, I'm not quite fully invested in that match to begin with, that's really just getting me out of a bad match more quickly so I can get into my next one faster.
But garbage teammates I have no control over, and when they do something that directly leads to my being hooked or death, well that personally ticks me off the most. Although I want to be clear I'm talking about blatant and direct cause and effect, my teammate unhooked me right in the killers face without BT, I get hooked again. I'm not the kind of guy who blames people on the basis of indirect causality where "my teammates were bad! Argh!" situations where I'm farmed off the hook, a fully healed player takes my vault or blocks my pallet drop, purposefully runs over to me while the killer is chasing them, leaving me on the hook when I'm literally running kindred so you can see everybody else not going for the save etc. Those are the ones that really get under my skin the most.
Bugs and glitches would technically fall under that same line of reasoning, but I honestly don't suffer from bugs or glitches all that often. Does it suck when it happens? Yeah.. but it happens too rarely at least to me for me to cite it as "most annoying" and some of them are flat out more funny than frustrating. For example the being trapped in a hill thing? That's your own fault man, I just stayed away from the edges of hills the whole time when that bug was up, never got caught once. Although I was hit by that bug where you couldn't use Oni's power if it regained passively, that was really annoying, but it only happened to me once and I rarely played Oni again (or if I did I made sure not to use passive increase add-ons and made sure to have some blood nearby when my power was about to go up passively) until it was fixed.
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@White_Owl said:
There's no point, I already do that.
Lol wait, I didn't realize it but this is actually true facts.
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I think the creepy Deathslinger laugh is enough personally, it already adds plenty of personality to the character.
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@Slashstreetboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686699#Comment_1686699
Would be funny to see how Spirit reassembles after being clubbed down to the size of a golfball though xD
Can't hit what ya can't see. Everytime Oni would go into a demon rage spirit could just phase out of existence. The perfect counter.
EDIT: Not to mention his demon rage literally relies on the blood of his "injured foes" and victims to fuel him, and clearly Spirit doesn't bleed.
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Summer events by far were some of the most uninspired, lazy, uninteresting events of all time. Doing reskinned generators is hardly an "event" because it changes nothing about the pace of the game or the the gameplay. We're still doing the exact same thing, just with some identifiable "targets" instead. Boring.
My all time favorite events were the ones that actually had you do go out and do something different. The Lunar Moonrise event where you had to survive with a lantern was a perfect example of this, and the original hallowed blight event where you had to milk the visceral cankers was also really fun and atmospheric, fitting with the theme of halloween. These are the kind of events I want to encourage the devs to create more of- to truly think outside the box and be creative, challenging players in new and unique ways.
Doing reskinned generators in this way, is just dumb, even though unfortunately this has turned into the devs fallback way of creating any event.
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I vote for Oni more out of reflex than anything else, more like a knee jerk reactionary answer that I want to say Oni would win. EDIT: By the end of my post I changed my mind, shift my vote for spirit.
But TBH, I don't think it's as clear cut as everybody else says it would be where "Oh man, Oni Rips her in half, straight up dude" because think about it: If Oni Ripped the Spirit in half what would happen?
Girl would literally float back together. No cap.
Spirit is LITERALLY already Chopped up in multiple places, What is the Oni gonna do, chop her up some more? Even if he did something like cut off her head, her head would literally hover in place still thinking Spirit and being filled with rage.
I have this hilarious image in my head where the Oni goes for a devastating downward stroke slicing right through her arm, and it turns out his sword literally went between the empty space where her arm is already cut off in the first place. So the man literally whiffed and hit nothing but empty space and air lol.
Oni's advantage - sheer strength & raw power, endurance, extremely resistant to physical injury (but not invincible)
Spirit's advantage - Incorporeal, Can't die (in the traditional sense, being stabbed, bashed, cut, etc. none of that would kill her [if it COULD she would have died from her wounds a long time ago])
To be honest Spirit could probably just outlast the Oni. Shoot I should've voted for Spirit actually.
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@MusicNerd_TC said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686526#Comment_1686526
Ah sorry, i would have replied on your profile, I was just tired.
Thanks for clarifying, I just found those accounts to be hilarious.
They probably were lol, I don't think I saw everything they posted. Also I missed one, there were actually three.
"SeikoThreeHundred" also met an unfortunate end alongside the aforementioned accounts as well.
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@MusicNerd_TC said:
@Seiko300 Are you aware of these accounts?
I don't think that's related to this thread in any way, shape, form, or fashion. You could have left a comment on my profile or something instead.
But I assume by "accounts" you are referring to the Seiko301 and Seiko299 accounts? Yeah I'm aware. Some dumb friends of mine IRL who are messing with me and the integrity of these here forums. Lol.
From my understanding they were actually banned lol. Which, not surprising, they were troll accounts so no love lost.
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@MusicNerd_TC said:
Alright, I started thinking about this after @MadLordJack said that nurse was busted and OP and that he hated how people defend nurse because she's "the hard one".
Nurse is by far the best killer in dbd, and I see more people wanting spirit and deathslinger nerfed than nurse, who has even less counterplay. Now, I agree that deathslinger and spirit do need some tweaks to their kit, but why not nurse? I see people defend her saying "she's a high skill killer", at least with deathslinger you can break LOS and pre drop pallets, slinger takes a lot of skill to play, almost as much as nurse, and I see more people talking about slinger than nurse.
I'm not saying nurse needs a nerf or anything, but I just want to know why people defend her for being high skill. She has almost no counterplay, you can't juke a nurse, the nurse misses, and since she no clips through everything, you can't use pallets or vaults as well.
I'd disagree and say there is at least a little bit of counterplay to Nurse. Arguably there's more counterplay to Nurse than to Deathslinger (or spirit for that matter) but that's just my opinion. The only difference is that Nurse's counterplay relies a lot less on pallets and loops, and a lot more on mindgames and jukes based on the Killer's first person POV and your own third person camera view.
Nurse starts charging up her blink, you run around the corner of killer shack for instance she blinks in front of you to cut you off but you're already running backward in the other direction where she just was. If she's high iq and predicts your backtrack, instead you predict her prediction, and COMMIT to running around the corner and past killer shack to the next jungle gym or building or whatever. Against a Nurse it's literally about Mindgaming tiles, and then gaining as much distance as possible when she guesses incorrectly and that's all you do, rinse and repeat.
Not saying that works all the time, God no, but I am saying I'd rather do that than go against Deathslinger to be totally honest, a good Deathslinger doesn't miss and you certainly can't dodge the harpoon that comes out at 40m/s especially at close range. Dropping every pallet early because you're forced to isn't as interactive and engaging when it comes to the chase.
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@ToxicMyers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/197868/relatively-new-players-perspective
This game's toxicity is nothing compared to 2k, and is literally a speck of dust compared the nuclear waste that is mw2 lobbies
Unlike either of the game's you mentioned, Dead By Daylight literally suffers from the political polarization of a two-party system. Red and Blue. Killers and Survivors. Dead By Daylight is literally a game of politics and that's far worse than anything you could possibly say about 2k or mw2 that would change my mind.
Lmao.
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@Almo said:
Huge portions of the game are balanced around the asymmetry of the cameras. It would almost be like making an entirely new game to rebalance it if Survivors were suddenly first person.
It might be amusing for a few games, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work very well long-term. :)
@Buttercake said:
But then I can't see all my handsome clothes... 😢
Almo's comment is what we needed
But Buttercake's was the one we deserved.
10//10 response. Cosmetics make the man, and that's just big facts.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1679008#Comment_1679008
the survivor can wait at the dropped pallet and vault it to avoid POTD. the same thing can be done against clown when he trys to use bottles at a dropped pallet, it works against PH including if his missed recovery time gets reduced to the same as PTB because its still over or near 2 seconds long and it takes half that to double vault.
when it comes to consistency it makes sense that DSlinger can't hit a survivor through objects and how they can put them between themselves and him. when i said this i wasn't talking about how a killers power is used to hit survivors if it can i was talking about why its the same across all killers that can. consistency in this sense meant does this interaction(survivors getting injured by POTD during vaulting) fall in line when compared to all killers like how basic attacks and non-basic attacks are considered and the answer is yes. it simply doesn't make sense animation wise or game play wise why this attack wouldn't hit a survivors preforming a vault. this is a big reason why you're nerf idea won't even be considered because the dev's want to stay in line with this kind of consistency and if it also prevents them from having to work on animations for POTD because as it looks currently it diffidently hits survivors when they vault.
You said while vaulting/ being stuck in animation POTD can't damage you. survivors can wait at vaults including pallets and just avoid it as i explained in my post which you didn't address you just brushed off. I feel like you don't understand how easy it is to just wait for POTD and push the vault button while holding run. either address this if you want to continue the debate or your points are invalid because this CAN be done. it takes over 2 seconds to recover from both using POTD and exiting rites and that is plenty of time to double vault and because of the delay of the attack/its wave affect of damage it can be reacted to, speeding up this attack in any way will actually break the character if it becomes impossible to dodge which it barely is now so that kind of buff will just make more people complain about him.
again this change will make him powerless in the face of vaults unless his recovery from exiting rites is buffed to compensate which the devs won't do since this is what they were addressing in the ptb. if you can't offer a compensation for his power that will negate camping vaults or provide reasoning for my 3rd body paragraph is wrong which it isn't then your changes won't work/ be considered.
Because waiting at the pallet isn't necessarily the foolproof strategy that you're passing it off to be or at the very least implying it be, it might be viable as counterplay (which is what this change is MEANT to provide so it's not like this is a bad thing). That's exactly why I brushed it off, waiting at a pallet in itself is risky since all a PH needs to do is wait out the vault, even if that results in a staring contest between the killer and survivor if the survivor continues to wait it out. When the survivor does decide to vault PH throws out Punishment of the Damned after the animation is finished, or if they don't vault and wait it out in that staring contest PH just needs to throw it out at an unexpected moment. Unlike Clown who might want to play want to play around a downed pallet because his only ability is to slow down their movement speed, and a survivor who knows that the bottles potentially be impactful enough to slow down a good enough loop, you simply cannot do the same thing for a good Pyramid Head in any feasible way. POTD is too much of a threat to stay and try to run around the exact same loop and what most survivors will want to do is get outside of that range altogether. If they do however try to take the opportunity to run away during cooldown, again, the 2 seconds of recovery is not long at all and even if survivors run away during that time the distance they gain may as well be negligible. Quoting myself since you clearly didn't read:
"I will add it as an afterthought that the cooldown he currently has is not as impactful as you think. We can tell exactly how much distance a survivor gains in that time (rather than you're arbitrary "that's a lot of time to gain ground" that means nothing). Since we know survivors move at 4.0m/s. After 2.75 seconds, they'll be 11 meters away, and considering that Punishment of the damned is 8m long, you're looking at a few seconds, five tops, before that survivor is within a lethal range again. And if those changes that are on the PTB go through this will be reduced to 2.25 seconds so cut that distance to 9 METERS that a survivor jut gained they are 1 meter away from being hit immediately after a second time. This is ONLY if a survivor runs perfectly straight, if you're running in a perfectly straight line you are gaining that full 4 meters of distance, and we all know not every survivor moves perfectly straight after getting perfectly hit. Whether because of their own human error or maybe because they didn't have a choice, because the map constricts them in a way that forces them to turn left or right. TL;DR So even in the perfect scenario the cooldown is practically meaningless in the grand scheme of things, even less than meaningless if that reduction in cooldown on the PTB goes live."
You completely ignored the bulk of my argument about deathslinger and consistency. If the chain breaks survivors are injured but can't be downed in this manner. Whereas any other ranged killer upon hitting their target, be it Huntress, or Plague with corrupt purge, immediately do a state of damage regardless if they are at full health or in the injured state. In this way Deathslinger represents an inconsistency compared to how the other ranged killers operate. Especially when you didn't address how Deathslinger can actually shoot a survivor clean through the chest and not do a single state of damage at all if he attacks too early. How does that make any sense whatsoever?
With this in mind I continue to assert the FACT that: "killer abilities are balanced individually as necessary, regardless of 'consistency'. It makes no sense to hold all killers to the same standard when they aren't all capable of the same thing."
"Powerless" is an extremely strong word and very clearly an obvious exaggeration when we're talking about a few frames of invincibility, you say it so generally and broadly without providing any specifics, "powerless" how? Windows certainly won't make Pyramid Head powerless, since if any survivor tries to camp a window they'll be met with the entity blocker after only three vaults. Pallets certainly won't do that either since again, they are a limited resource and can also be broken, and either way in both cases a window or a pallet, it doesn't matter because POTD literally ignores all obstacles. Either the survivor runs around the long side of the loop and exposes themselves to getting hit with POTD or by camping the window they expose themselves to an extremely simple M1. Again, either way, PH has the tools deal with all of this even with the counterplay built into his kit in any possible scenario you could give me.
I cannot understate how powerful of a chase tool this is and you seem to be flat out ignoring that completely, saying that the only useful aspect of his ability is to be able to catch survivors locked in animation? Because that is what you're saying, and if you backtrack on that then you're simply introducing a contradiction into your logic. You said and I quote: "this change will make him powerless in the face of vaults" which implies that his ONLY power is to be able to catch survivors at vaults. I'm sorry and I don't mean to be rude, but I'm just flat out going to have to call bullshit on that claim.
You completely ignore the area denial that trail of torment provides where survivors will willingly put themselves into poor situations to avoid being tormented, you ignore the utility of the Cage of Atonement which negates all perks that are affected by hooks other second chance perks or strategies like flashlight saves, as well as Final Judgement which also saves time, and of course the aforementioned being able to ignore all assets and collision on the map to injure survivors. In what world is all of a sudden PH with all that in his kit "powerless" please, if you could explain in a reasonably logical way that holds some actual weight, I would be tremendously surprised because that claim is absolutely extraordinary, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence to back them up.
Again, to refocus, what I am asking for is to introduce a small bit of counterplay into his kit that limits the amount of unskilled and unfun playstyles that we see frequently from Pyramid Head due to the very inherent nature of his ability. We know the devs haven't come up with anything especially unique or groundbreaking to solve the issue, and I don't see anybody else providing solutions here now do I?
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@KingWeeb said:
You guys were wrong.
I just bought him and I feel under a lot of preassure playing as him.
Well, I hate to pull the "experience" card, but, I doubt you're "I just bought him" really stands up to 1k hours of Clown gameplay...
..JK, I haven't played him for a solid 1k hours. Still though. You'd be extremely hard pressed to convince me otherwise: no gen slowdown, no map mobility, no utility, and no map pressure, only a subpar chase tool and that's about it.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1679009#Comment_1679009
You're right. I needed to expand the power description:
power: Joel in one
Press the power button to make one of the survivors act wildly out of character and let their guard down for no discernable reason. The affected survivor can be hit with a basic attack while they are downed to instantly kill them.
After the affected survivor is killed, another survivor will embark on a revenge quest to avenge them but before they're able to kill you they will see a vision of the survivor that you murdered playing a guitar and decide against killing you despite murdering almost all of your friends by this point and giving extremely contradictory messages to all players in the trial.
Any person who thinks that this power is convoluted and poorly written is automatically wrong.
Lmao
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Big pass. I'm not a fan of creepypastas and "internet horror" in Dead By Daylight like Slenderman, Jeff The Killer, Sonic.EXE, (FNAF may as well be internet horror tbh...)
all of these are low quality options, not worth.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1676605#Comment_1676605
im not going to lie i only read the part you responded to me about and i will disagree it will weaken him across the board by a lot unless they change the recovery of leaving rites of judgment. the way they are changing it will make it so he can't just hold the power at loops and leave it if the survivor doesn't throw the pallet and its because he will recover way slower, slow enough that if he leaves rites of judgment he can't hit as easily and in your change he wont be able to hit a survivor waiting for him at a vault.
lets compare this to another killer, clown. At medium to long loops survivors wait at the pallet because clown can't do anything there and he is forced to break the pallet. survivors will do the same but wait until he leaves his power or preforms punishment of the dammed before vaulting. this can also be done at pallets so PH will literally suffer the same fate as clown where the counter is to just throw a pallet and react to whatever he does.
if you want these changes to work you have to give compensations so he can't be easily dealt with in a chase whenever you reach a vault location and it can't be decreasing the recovery time because then they will just hold the power at loops again. while its not that slow its still slow enough to just wait him out and vault without getting hit and im talking about after his changes go live.
lastly in terms of consistency it doesn't make sense that his attack wont hit survivors locked in animation when every other killer who can hurt survivors with their power can hit survivors locked in animation so i doubt the devs would even consider this for consistency sake. look how they treated basic attacks, some killers would do better if their special attack was considered basic like pig but the devs won't budge on it because they want it to be clear what something is or isn't. not letting punishment of the dammed hit survivors standing still from throwing a pallet or vaulting a window will confuse players because logically and animation wise that attack should have hit and injured them.
It'd have helped if you had read the whole post, but it is what it is.
I've already briefly gone over that whatever they're doing on PTB isn't working, not in great detail since admittedly I haven't been there myself but based on numerous testimony from other players. You can still cancel in the animation immediately so you can fake out punishment of the damned and get free hits at pallets in a very similar way that you can now.
Clown is a horrible comparison, his power is vastly inferior on a very basic level. PH wouldn't suffer any similar "fate" at all, even in your given hypothetical, since if that survivor drops the pallet he can still use his power to hit across loops. Even if he misses, he can literally just spam punishment of the damned until he hits, something that Pyramid Head's do now and something they'll most certainly do more frequently when the cooldown for missed attacks is eventually reduced like it is on the PTB. PH is in nowhere near any kind of trouble that Clown is, you're literally comparing what is one of the more solid better killers of the game to arguably the worst.
As for "consistency" killer powers are uniquely balanced different from all other killers. For example Deathslinger can't guarantee injury or downs just because he shot someone, he must reel them in and if he doesn't they can't be downed. If the chain doesn't break and instead he lets go by attacking too early he doesn't even injure survivors with the ability, despite clearly shooting a fkn harpoon right through their shoulder survivors are literally none the worse for wear. Though it's important to note that though it might not make actual sense, it does make sense balance-wise, So I'd hardly consider "consistency" a valid argument, killer abilities are balanced individually as necessary, regardless of "consistency". It makes no sense to hold all killers to the same standard when they aren't all capable of the same thing.
I've also already explained away the logic of how this change would be explained. Punishment of the Damned is an attack that erupts from the ground, if you're not on the ground, you aren't hit. Not quite the same thing as your analogy of not hitting a survivor that's standing still, so it does make sense contrary to what you said.
@[Deleted User] said:
That would make him incredibly frustrating to play as and there would be almost no reason to use his power at all if the survivor will be safe when vaulting.
It would only be incredibly frustrating for PH players who rely purely on the crutch of only ever hitting survivors who are stuck in animation rather than making more skilled shots.
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@DARKxVOID said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1675362#Comment_1675362
So the reason I wanted a Big Daddy, Rapture map and then a Bioshock Infinite Survivor is because of how iconic all 3 things are. Jack is iconic sure, but you only really ever look at this hands.
The main reason is because of the Silent Hill. It represented Silent Hill 1 with Midwich Elementary. It represented Silent Hill 2 with Pyramid Head. Lastly, it represented Silent Hill 3 with Cheryl. So basically I'm just trying to represent the trilogy of Bioshock games. They can pick a Rapture Map and Big Daddy from 1/2 and then have Booker/Elizabeth as a survivor. (Elizabeth ends up in Rapture in the Infinite DLC anyways so it's not so far fetched)
Makes sense. Hearing it put that way I actually don't mind it as much.
A Rapture map would be absolutely insane, truly one of the most unique maps, it'd be an indoor map sure but I don't think I'd care, hopefully you see the creepy emptiness of the ocean outside (of course populated with some fish, algae, maybe a shark jumpscare, or the slow moving silhouette of a giant underwater creature looming outside). The inside would be all dilapidated, with a few leaks and water pouring out in places, it'd be great.
Still though, I'd really want to see what the devs could create with their own original water-themed chapter. I've always imagined a creepy killer in an old-timey diving suit extremely similar to what Big Daddy Bouncer wears, just minus the drill with a different weapon equipped. Or maybe a creepy old fisherman who's equipped with a harpoon, big fishing spear, or trident or something. Maybe even a pirate or ghost pirate lol
Or maybe something darker, like a legend, cursed or corrupted fisherman or pirate or whatever Davy Jones style. Covered in Barnacles, with a giant crab claw for a hand, always looking waterlogged, tentacles, I'm starting to lean into some Cthulhu territory here.
Either way a water themed chapter would be super creepy and cool all the way, whatever it was. The chapter (if it wasn't licensed) could be called "Tide of Terror" or something.
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@Kebek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1675445#Comment_1675445
Ok, I'm sorry for beiing disrespectful before and I admit that your suggestion made me frustrated to the point of making a snappy comment dismissing you. Seeing that you're still putting a lot of effort to answer me anyway I'll do my best to explain my point of view why it's not a good change.
At the demo/huntress comparion I was mostly talking about evading them via vault while their power has enough time to connect if you were to vault. At that point good demo/huntress have enough time to hold their power and react to what survivor will do - if they vault their powers are fast enough to earn a hit during the vault, if they don't they can just aim directly at the survivor and hit since reaching the 8m range of PH's power is both equally possible with them and is the most likely time for both to use their power to punish window/pallet vault. In other words, if they get too close to survivor, they reach point at which missing is purely dependant on killer and survivor can make a prediction and bait their hit but ultimately it's killers decision that will make it a hit or not.
If we were to talk about the actual missing then PH is actually punished equally as much since he's recovery time is 2.75s which is a lot of time to gain ground. But that's besides the actual animation lock comparion at which all these killers earn a hit the same way as long as they're used properly and have reach with their power.
Your belief that PoD can't be dodge isn't necessarily wrong but it's certainly incomplete. All killers chase powers usually revolve around their reach and utility. Once you're in reach of a chase power you're very likely to get hit no matter which killer it is, be it Doc, demo, slinger, huntress, nurse, bubba or anything. Key here is to be as far away as possible and break LOS at any chance which goes the same with PH as well. You need to always evaluate how far you are and if it's a good time to vault, fake, drop pallet, fake drop pallet, double fake drop pallet or any other opportunity that arises. Every killer has as much lose-lose when you're close to them so making the correct read in time to gain more distance is not as far different with PH as with other killers.
As I said I'm not liking your suggestion (which is why I snapped as I did, sorry again) and my belief is that PH does have decent amount of counterplay at least as equal as other chase oriented killers. At the current time of new changes beiing tested, it's very difficult to discuss further changes and best course of action is to wait and see how impactull they will be. If they aren't enough, I'm sure devs will make more chages in the future but rash changes like adding immunity frames exactly the kind of changes that is too fast and too drastic so even when you think it's a possible solution, it's one that devs wouldn't do since they learned from their past mistakes in this regard.
The difference is that for the Demo/Huntress comparison, both of these characters have limits on their powers and what they can do with them. I get what you're saying, yes, a Huntress can catch a survivor at a window, sure, a Demogorgon can do the exact same thing. However, a Huntress can not do it an endless amount of times throughout the entire match, eventually she will need to take the time to reload her hatchets. When she does run out of hatchets, you'll find that she moves at base of 110% movement speed, permanently, with no other ability when her hatchets are out Not to mention, there's a vertical aspect to her ability, not only do you have to aim in the correct spot laterally, but also vertically, if you aren't practiced with Huntress it is entirely feasible to completely whiff that shot because you aimed a little too high or a little to low.
And it's worth enough to note that Demogorgon is also limited by his power despite not having the more obvious "ammo limit" Huntress has, it is a physical, melee, attack. If you don't catch a survivor with shred before they reach the window, right at the window, or immediately after, that shred misses and instead you are colliding with that asset which causes a stun on the killer. Unlike Huntress and even more unlike PH, Demogorgon has to deal with his entire killer hitbox potentially colliding with something. The drastic slow Demogorgon and Huntress have that I mentioned earlier where they move more slowly than normal survivor running speeds, force them into "do or die" scenarios, where they have to get this hit, and if they don't or decide they can't make that hit they are pushed back further in the chase now having lost ground.
So what is my point with all this, well it comes down to that simple concept of what Pyramid Head can do, and what they can't. He ignores pallets and windows completely on a level that Huntress and Demogorgon quite simply don't. Which I want to make clear, isn't necessarily a bad thing, Nurse ignores pallets and windows on level all of these killers quite simply don't and I'm not making any assertions about her. The reason being for Nurse, Huntress, and Demogorgon, there is a certain amount of skill or effort on the part of the killer in order to use those abilities properly and effectively. I would argue none of these killers are particularly easy to use especially against knowledgeable survivors, Nurse for obvious reasons, Demogorgon because of a distinct lack of people playing Demogorgon (this being either an indicator of his lack of effectiveness or a high skill floor / difficulty to use [since nobody likes to say Demogorgon isn't an effective killer, I'll opt for the latter]), and Huntress for her own myriad of reasons from resource (hatchet) management, gauging distance, how quickly hatchets move, the arc and trajectory of the throw, etc. so on and so forth.
But Pyramid Head IS. There is almost no skill required for a Pyramid Head much less a practiced one, to quickly take advantage of being able to ignore all forms of collision while a survivor is pinned in place within a range of 8 meters (without addons!). If a Demogorgon attempts to do the same thing, he has to mind whether or not he can make it in time crossing the distance with Shred before a full successful vault or pallet slam, if not he loses that interaction. A Huntress has to mind the wind-up time for her hatchets, the drastic slow to her movement speed, the vertical motion and the height at which she throws her hatchets, etc. A Pyramid Head has no issues with any of this at all, only needing to mind the lateral left and right movement, which is hardly anything, if you are facing a survivor you're hitting a survivor.
The ease and reliability that Pyramid Head can pull this off and still see the same amount of success as other more difficult to use killers is what makes this a problem. So unless we're making it more difficult to aim / use punishment of the damned, we need to do something about how successful the ability actually is during a match. Hence the invincibility frames.
And not that it matters but I will add it as an afterthought that the cooldown he currently has is not as impactful as you think. We can tell exactly how much distance a survivor gains in that time (rather than you're arbitrary "that's a lot of time to gain ground" that means nothing). Since we know survivors move at 4.0m/s. After 2.75 seconds, they'll be 11 meters away, and considering that Punishment of the damned is 8m long, you're looking at a few seconds, five tops, before that survivor is within a lethal range again. And if those changes that are on the PTB go through this will be reduced to 2.25 seconds so cut that distance to 9 METERS that a survivor jut gained they are 1 meter away from being hit immediately after a second time. This is ONLY if a survivor runs perfectly straight, if you're running in a perfectly straight line you are gaining that full 4 meters of distance, and we all know not every survivor moves perfectly straight after getting perfectly hit. Whether because of their own human error or maybe because they didn't have a choice, because the map constricts them in a way that forces them to turn left or right. TL;DR So even in the perfect scenario the cooldown is practically meaningless in the grand scheme of things, even less than meaningless if that reduction in cooldown on the PTB goes live.
@SnakeSound222 said:
This would hurt his viability a lot. All you have to do to counter it is vault. It would be nearly impossible to hit the Survivor at certain locations.
@AChaoticKiller said:
I don't this idea at all, it will drastically weaken him because survivors can just react to him by vaulting and if i understand correctly preforming a slow vault will make it impossible to hit the survivor if they reacted to it.
just think about it, with PH's slow recovery and the delay for when the attack actually damages the survivor they can just wait at a window and react to what ever you do.
I refer you to my last paragraph, the "slow recovery" you're referring to in all reality is not actually that slow. I highly doubt this will seriously weaken him because this really only affects people who purely rely on the playstyle of waiting for survivors to be locked in place. This will have little to no effect on good Pyramid Head players who are well acquainted with the ability, when they can hit it and when they can't outside of a "motionless" (locked in animation) survivor. Just like any other Ranged killer.
In a certain sense you're right though, it'll drastically weaken Pyramid Head players who rely purely on a crutch playstyle which requires minimal effort. News flash: his ability is still good outside of those interactions where survivors are locked in an animation, he can still hit survivors on the other sides of loops without having to run the tile normally as an M1 killer. Trail of Torment still serves as area denial and a deterrent for survivors to take certain pathways, if they run through it anyway then that benefits you as the cage of atonement / final judgement provides more options. He'll most certainly still be a good and viable killer with this change, of that I am absolutely certain. To repeat:
"I can assure you I took the time to consider from both sides, and the conclusion I came to is that it's certainly worth the while"
@HP150 said:
This is it. Here we are, we've peaked.
EVERYTHING needs counter-play. You've put yourself in a bad position and made a terrible decision to take a bad window vault, but nah, you shouldn't be punished. But why stop there? If a killer is right on your butt, where is the counterplay to getting M1'd? I propose that all survivors should have Dead Hard as their base kit, it shouldn't incur exhaustion, and it shouldn't require the survivor to be injured to use. Because, you know, "COUNTERPLAY!!1!".
And what you're asking for is to be getting things easily and for free. Free zoning, free downs, because there is little to no counterplay, and as long as there's no counterplay I can continue to crap all over my opponents and tell them to learn counterplay that in all reality doesn't truly exist. Continue to push forward this idea that the current state of what things is are somehow "fair" and we're all have fun!
In fact, let's not have counterplay for anything! Decisive Strike should be free invincibility for a survivor for 60 seconds, Object of Obsession should be free passive information for survivors to call out to their SWF teammates! Pyramid Head should be getting free downs all the time, and DBD should be a toxic fight to the top to see who can best abuse the most poorly designed aspects of the game. Because, you know, "NO COUNTERPLAY!!1!"
@Funchal said:
(Google Translate)
For the first instant that I saw this suggestion the first thing that crossed my mind and how ridiculous it would be if added.
But then I started to consider scenarios where survivors slowly jumped on a pallet to stay longer on top of it avoiding the attack, and it seemed interesting since being a very slow animation, a good PH could go around the loop and catch the survs by surprise
Or just wait for the animation to finish before using the attack, which could be subject to DH, Adrenaline and things like that.
I really liked the idea but it would take a lot of testing to see how much invincible time in the animation it would be good not to be stupid strong, or stupid weak
I also think that the attack would need to lose its "wave" effect for the hitbox to be more consistent
THIS ^
This is exactly what I'm looking for, someone who understands the same wavelength of thought I'm operating on.
I understand entirely that at first glance this seems like one of my most laziest and ludicrous ideas, but when you take the time to actually think it through, it beyond surprisingly, is crazy enough that it just might work.
I absolutely agree it's a risky idea that would take time and testing to get it right, but if they could get it right, then it would be something that would work and would create an experience of playing against Pyramid Head that is so much more enjoyable, less aggravating, and make playing as Pyramid Head all the more rewarding.
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@Kebek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1675381#Comment_1675381
Tell me then, which killer's power you can evade without predictiong once you're in it's reach while near window ? Do you somehow evade huntress's hatchet when she already has time to hit you if you were to vault or do you dodge a demo who can shred you if you vault. You don't, that's why those powers are good because once you're in range for them to be useable you're getting hit unless you predict the killer's though on your next move. Giving immunity frames to the most essencial time for killer's power to do some work would make chases with him extremely long thus losing the matches unless you only M1ed which isn't viable.
Also the comparion with hathces stands since hatches's collision or supply doesn't change how much you can evade them during animation lock.
But just as I thought, this isn't worth the trouble of discussing. You're already set on the premise that PoD can't be evaded in any way so it needs a nerf of such magnitude as immunity frames which is a lazy chnage.
I don't see how your question has any relevance to the problem that Pyramid Head poses. We KNOW that this is a problem, Pyramid Head frequently puts survivors in situations where almost no counterplay is available to them and survivors are just forced to concede the chase. Your question is nothing but a deflection from what the issue we're discussing actually is.
But for the sake of discussion I'll answer it anyway. Huntress hatchets, much like Demogorgon shred you have an opportunity to dodge, mainly because there's an audible wind up for both. Demogorgon hisses and opens it's mouth changing stance, Huntress makes a noise herself sort of like an intake of breath and the hatchet itself also makes a sound when it's fully charged. More importantly for both killers they are reduced in speed during this time, Demogorgon has an alt. speed of 92% (3.68m/s) and Huntress is slowed even more at a whopping 77% (3.08) meaning both these killers are losing distance while they have wind up their attacks. If either of them miss they will have lost ground and the chase extends for a longer duration than it might have otherwise.
Given the vault hypothetical yes, a survivor does have a choice. A quick juke to the left or right can very well mean that either of those killers miss, and because they lost ground the survivor isn't punished for making the right call and not vaulting. This is especially true for Demogorgon, since if he misses and collides with an asset like a wall he is stunned for a longer duration. In that situation, it might actually be more rewarding for a survivor to gauge the time and distance to see if they actually can make the vault, since Demogorgon will not get the hit if he doesn't catch them at the window and they successfully vault all the way through. On the Huntress side of this if she misses she is down a hatchet, and has fewer chances remaining to injure or down a survivor before she is eventually forced to take the time and restock at a locker, at worst needing to break off chase entirely to find one.
Nowhere is this thoughtful design present in Pyramid Head's kit. He is slowed, but only to that of 110%, a speed which enables him to most certainly maintain a chase, keep up with, and even surpass a survivor (not that killers will be passing survivors up they'll be catching them of course). He is not punished at all for his wind-up, which also serves as area denial if a survivor doesn't want to get tormented, and can quickly transition from wind-up to M1 if the survivor doesn't vault that's where this problem comes from.
Yes I have asserted that PoD can't be dodged considering the alternative is an M1, this isn't something you have ever indicated you'd like to dispute and I don't think I'm necessarily wrong in my belief either. The only reason I can think of as to why you'd believe this isn't worth discussing is because you'd have far too much trouble proving your point (because it's inherently flawed but that is of course just my opinion).
Regardless of whether or not you think it's a lazy solution, at the very least it IS a solution. One that I can assure you I took the time to consider from both sides, and the conclusion I came to is that it's certainly worth the while, anyone who disagrees with me I'm certainly open to discussing with them and hearing out their reason for why. Unlike you.
@Alextheflykat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1675404#Comment_1675404
And I agree that it wouldn't make sense to apply it to all the killers, but that's kind of my point. Why would only PH get nerfed bc of doing his ranged attack, meanwhile any other killer in that situation would still have their ranged attack land. Huntress could still hatchet you if you were vaulting, for example. It seems like it would make him absolute garbage if his one good move got nerfed, ESPECIALLY if the scenario only applied to him.
Because of the reasons previously stated, specifically what PH is able to do and what these other ranged killers can't do (IE attack through walls and other assets ignoring all kinds of collision and hitboxes, transition from wind-up to, M1 with little to no punishment for it, etc.)
@LuffyBlack said:
I would ask anyone that's responding to take it easy. If you don't agree with their idea then cool, but at least they aren't shaming players for using PH and is trying to provide a solution
Thank you for your input, I really do appreciate it.
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@Alextheflykat said:
My only problem with that is that I think that should have to affect everything. Like you said, the survivor has no means of defense, so why would only p-head feel a nerf? Doctor can't zap you, killers shouldn't be able to hit you, the only thing left is to be able to grab the survivor in the animation. And then the survivor can just slide back and forth until you leave them alone. I think the fact that you're thinking about it is awesome, I just don't think this may be the best of solutions.
I think this is definitely a stretch, taking the logic and reasoning which I have applied to Pyramid Head very specifically and put them onto killers that are in much better positions balance and more specifically to this conversation design wise, like Doctor. For these killers, those powers, and other situations, I think such changes are just not necessary, and would very much be an over-reach.
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@Xbob42 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1675355#Comment_1675355
You didn't come to a ridiculous conclusion, I was talking about your theoretical person who isn't reading into the stats. I mean, in his very post it says:
"Obviously Jeff's don't have a 100% escape rate, it's just the few Jeff's I ran into (all two of them) managed to escape."
If someone is just disregarding the entire post to read random stats, and then coming to wild conclusions based on that, I don't really care what they think.
Jeez, for a second I was really miffed for no good reason because it sounded like you got super aggressive toward what was a valid statement.
Although I did miss that bit, that being said I think it's understandable considering when one is reading through long posts like these one tends to skim. I don't think anyone can fault me for that.
@KingFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1675313#Comment_1675313
I think Spirit is probably low on the list because I didn't count games where survivors dc'ed, and a lot of survivors DC when they see Spirit.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1675334#Comment_1675334
You don't have to read the stats. Nobody is forcing you to.
Well, I did. Soooo....... What are you asking me to do here exactly?
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I've been wanting a "water" themed chapter for some time now, Bioshock was kind of the example idea I always had in mind but I wasn't too sure if it would really work as an actual chapter.
Also, why would Elizabeth be the survivor when (from what I recall) she never showed up for the original Bioshock game?
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@Xbob42 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1675334#Comment_1675334
Nobody should care about the opinions of people too dumb to parse the stats without coming to ridiculous conclusions.
Seriously?
Did you not even open the spreadsheet? Jeff appeared TWO times and escaped both times. How is that a ridiculous conclusion, where was I wrong in that statement.
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@RizeAki said:
I got it guys! Flashlights only effect killers if they are walking! No more flashlight saves! No more pallet blinds! Hopefully you see the sarcasm and why your idea sounds like a new player idea.
Except unlike your analogy, his power still works 90% of the time? You can still hit anybody through all kinds of walls, loops, assets, etc. "New player idea" my ass you immediately jumped to a conclusion without actually taking the suggestion seriously.
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Wait, why even have an escape rate when you've already got an appearance rate? People who aren't reading into the states will think "oh man, Jeff is escaping 100% of the time! These Jeff players are super skillful!"
But in reality Jeff only appeared in .67% of matches. So, the two Jeff's escaped from their matches, woo! ...? What is that supposed to tell us?? Seriously.
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@csandman1977 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1674091#Comment_1674091
I feel all skill checks should be replaced with mini games. Or at least at 25% intervals. Add tension. Like i know im going to have to do a mini game, but where is the killer? For a couple seconds you wont be able to see anything but the mini game.
The way I imagined it in my original post, it wouldn't be as drastic as you say where you wouldn't be able to see "anything" I'm thinking of a textbook Among Us mini-game that makes sense for generators, for example like connecting wires or something. Not that I think DBD would be lazy and literally port duplicates of those mini-games into DBD, I think they'd probably take the time to think of their own unique mini-games, puzzles, activities, whatever (that make sense for the 7 different parts you're working with) so this is purely for the sake of example.
That would take up a solid chunk of the center of your view. It wouldn't be Huge, I think in Among Us it basically takes up the entire screen so you can only see the very edge, I wouldn't want it to be like that in Dead By Daylight. (I double checked just to make sure and that is true relatively speaking, only compared to the size of the rooms that you're in, since Among Us is more of a top down view and DBD is a 3D view, I think this would be less impactful in DBD [as it should be considering the different pacing of both games]). It should be maybe just a solid 25-50% of the center of your screen, with plenty of room to see your peripheral vision if the killer is coming right up from your side or something. Maybe I'm wrong and it should be more, I don't know, but that's just how I imagined it initially.
Regardless, either way, obviously as you mentioned this introduces a bit more tension to the experience of repairing a generator, you really don't want to be caught in one of these mini-games when the killer is close by. So, my idea in my original post is one where you really want to take a second, survey your surroundings, see if anyone is being chased, before you get to work on installing one of these missing pieces. You'd be far more vulnerable not only because you're vision is limited, but you probably wouldn't be able to look around either (these mini-games would require you need to use your mouse and click different things and such). At which time a survivor would likely be far more susceptible to getting snuck up on by a stealth killer, or maybe hit from afar by a ranged killer like Huntress or Deathslinger, or surprised by a suddenly materializing Nurse or Spirit.
Either way of course whatever happens, if you get hit or grabbed or vomited on by the plague, whatever, the mini-game immediately closes obviously so you have an opportunity to react immediately, whether that's by running away or wiggling or something.