Rogue11
Rogue11
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- Rogue11
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824554#Comment_3824554
Yeah... they're not going back on current tends in map design.
Best case is they keep nerfing maps into shoebox sized dead zones, and survivors still have a functional perk to find the one pallet in their quadrant of the map.
Worst case, they "listen to" the unreasonable whining about this perk and nerf it into oblivion, while also making maps into tiny dead zones.
This are really the only two options I see moving forward, unless something drastic changes at BHVR regarding map design.
Hence why I only briefly return to the game, grind the new rift, and leave. Can barely stand the current state of the game.
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@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823951#Comment_3823951
Map sense doesnt help you at all to know which pallet is used or which not. And thats the part why WoO is used so much. Is it really that hard to understand?
You could bring a perk like empathy, Kindred, bond, any means necessary, alert, or fogwise know where chases are taking place and which resources have likely been used. Or just pay attention to generally where your teammates chases are taking place.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824363#Comment_3824363
Becauae they've nerfed the maps so much they are almost all deadzones. All these arguments about why woo is too necessary actually just show why it should be basekit.
I'd prefer to see WoO nerfed and a reversal of the deadzone map trend. In other words, a state where map sense and skill expression matter for both sides again..
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No wonder I'm seeing so many people play him lately.
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@smurf said:
These are popping up all over the place. It's like the comments have been removed and replaced by them… reminds me of The Institute from FO4, kidnapping innocent comments and replacing them with something… else…
"Another forum post needs your help. I'll mark it on your map."
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Yes, Google Maps The Perk should be nerfed. Im tired of watching teammates and opponents bot path from pallet to pallet instead of learning to make the most out of tiles. Pick rate rivaling old dead hard, i often see 4 copies in a match as killer.
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@Fluffyxox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820999#Comment_3820999
my top 7 most played killers (around 25 games played each) sit at 80% kill rate. Across all games 50% are 4K, 20% 3K, 10% 2K, 8% 1K, 5% 0K. However similar to how I don't find BHVR's kill rates an objective indicator of killer strength due to how prevalent giving up is, I would consider my stats only semi reliable. We're effectively only capable of discussing subjective trends felt from playing the game because of how unreliable kill rate is for measuring role strength, like @Rulebreaker mentions. Do you disagree with that, and consider kill rate indicative of role strength?
Thank you for sharing the stats. Can you see how saying your matches are getting harder might be difficult to believe when you show stats like that? Considering my solo queue escape rate probably sits around 35% on a good day, how should I look at stats like yours and conclude the game is fair? Perhaps the question to ask might be something like, why do killer players that are winning or drawing the vast majority of matches feel like they're not? Are there things on the killer side that make actually balanced matches feel unbalanced or too stressful?
I don't necessarily think kill rate is gospel and perfectly reliable, but I do think the change in kill rates is significant and clearly tracks with years of decisions intended to have that effect. And I firmly believe increases in giving up are a consequence of those decisions. To suggest otherwise would imply a major shift in the playerbase brought about by….what exactly? What else changed over that timeframe that had a more significant impact on player behavior?
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My last match against him in solo queue had a ttv in my lobby. I pulled his stream up before the match started and had it paused so I could watch the vod back later if I wanted.
Singularity tunneled the streamer out with 3 gens left and proceeded to pile every camera on 3 gens and babysit them indefinitely.
Out of curiosity I tabbed out briefly to let his stream play in the background.
He was able to go back to lobby, queue for, and complete an entire 2nd match by the time our singularity match finished.
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With the nerfs to EMP range he can just spread 3-4 cameras at each of the last 3 gens and camp them until everyone gets bored and gives up. Skull Merchant 2.0 with cringe voice lines.
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@Fluffyxox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820685#Comment_3820685
For the past 3 months, I have been recording my match history with Nightlight and have played mostly killer. (around 240 games) Somewhat earlier than when I found out about it is when I returned to DBD after years. Over this time period, the amount of 4Ks and how many 4Ks in a row gets lower as the games become more recent. This is my MMR plateauing, as I'm facing survivors that are capable of escaping vs me with few hooks more frequently. At this point I 1K as frequently as I 4K, and similarly, 4Ks are frequently because 1 survivor just gives up and its a 1v3, while 1-0K are frequently when I play against survivors I can't even get 5 hooks vs. These are my stats alone, not reflective of the game at large, but its clear to me at least killer is not nearly the power role people claim. I feel the games being harder than before, its not imaginary.
Claiming killers will invent any excuse to ignore "evidence" is ignoring the conversation and saying "HA I win, you disagree with me thus you're wrong." and well, ironically exactly what you claim everyone else does.So who is your best killer and what is your kill rate over those games (if that's trackable on Nightlight idk)?
Evidence was given previously in the form of large scale average results (kill rate), as well as high end outlier performance (winstreaks). Both of these point were ignored with no evidence presented as a counter.
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@Massquwatt said:
WoO and visual heartbeat are both interesting, they're very good in their intended purpose. (Helping new players learn map layouts and audio impaired people) however, at the same time they're used by a majority of the people because it makes the game easier. (veterans can use the info from WoO to chain loops and take the gamble out of going to a loop while visual TR mostly eliminates the need to make a judgement on the killer's proximity.) I think the best solution going forward is introducing more sources of blindness through addons and perks so the counter to that is for survivors to become more situationally aware of what's going on while afflicted.
The same can be said about the abundance and power creep of killer tracking perks. Finding survivors and predicting mindgames used to be a skill that veteran killers needed to learn. The general elimination of game sense mattering on both sides is noticeable.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820711#Comment_3820711
yeah that was me. Like I said I just didn’t play well. Made me upset that all escaped and brought the team down. The unknown player we went up against was actually a streamer that I followed snd know well and let’s just say her reaction to the entire game was not very good. Even towards me she knew who I was and still hit me on the hook for using wicked😭
Oh I didn't know the killer was a streamer. If you don't mind pm'ing me the ttv name, I'd like to watch the vod back.
Sorry you kinda got focused out! I was trying to take chase to distract from you.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820687#Comment_3820687
yeah we played together then i recognized the name immediately
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3DAIHYIGE3BE/img-8511.jpeg
sorry I didn’t play well
That was a fun match! We were very lucky to get 3 out.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820665#Comment_3820665
were u the Lara in the unknown game yesterday on the asylum map?
Was there a Claire that went down in basement to use Wicked and ended up dying early?
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820665#Comment_3820665
were u the Lara in the unknown game yesterday on the asylum map?
Maybe? If it was me, I would have been running Object, For the People, Kindred, & Balanced.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820581#Comment_3820581
Well if I started playing killer everyone will just be like "you're not in high mmr yet." When I started playing this game I played.pretty much all killer fpr hundreds of hours, but apparently I wasnt in high mmr. So I just want to know how long do I have to play getting mostly 3 and 4k's until I am "high mmr."
When you cite insane winstreaks, they call them outliers. (Even though no comparable streaks happen for survivors.)
When you cite averages they'll call them misleading. (These really are a good metric because you can clearly see it change from closer to 50% to pushing 60%, or higher on some killers)
If you post yourself playing killer and winning they'll call you an outlier or not high mmr.
There's no evidence you could provide that they will accept.
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It should be nerfed. Perks that eliminate the skill gap between good and bad players are unhealthy, and it has a usage rate rivaling old dead hard. It also holds back maps getting any buffs as survivors can make perfect use of the few pallets that are left on reworked maps.
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I made a similar comparison a while ago showing probabilities of survivor loss streaks as kill rates increase. I suspect at least some correlation between loss streaks and survivors giving up on hook, as losing every match over a 1-2 hour play session leads to frustration and burn out. 50% was far healthier.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3819592#Comment_3819592
That's what it was designed to be. It's an asym horror game; as a survivor, death is supposed to be the more likely outcome, like in a horror movie (whether it's actually scary or not isn't relevant). Not so likely that it's oppressive, but certainly not a 50/50 coin flip. Escape is meant to be an accomplishment.
Balance is a relative term, and 60/40 is what the devs are going for, to keep in the spirit of the game. Relatively speaking, DBD is closer to balance than it ever has been. But perfect balance isn't as was never the goal. I mean it's an RNG dependent 4v1, for god's sake.
I'm not sure why so many people have a hard time wrapping their brain around this.
If people want a nice evenly balanced competitive experience, they are looking in the wrong place for it. That isn't what DbD is, or was ever intended to be (or likely ever will be).
I play mostly survivor at this point (probably like 60/40 over the past year), and I am fine with it, because it's what the game is supposed to me. If I wasn't, I'd go play something else.
And frankly, anyone stressed out and wringing their hands over the fact it's not 50/50 should probably just move on.
I love seeing this argument when if it's used in any other context around the game you'll be told "lol DBD isn't a horror game after the first 4 hours".
Stealth play being nonexistent, maps being overly bright, atmospheric lighting gone, fog gone, goofy cosmetics being added. For all these things the game isn't "horror", but when it comes to the core balance of the game suddenly "muh horror experience" matters over everything else.
As if a team watching Blight tunnel someone out at 4 gens on a reworked map with 3 pallets to secure their 401st win in a row thinks to themselves "wow this is such an immersive horror simulation!".
I'm ready for the next pvp star wars game where the devs make the good guys team win because that's what happens in the movies.
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@buggybug said:
Amma keep it real simple, 6.1 to this recent patch is the reason. Pretty positive people know what those reasons are. Also for the love of god please stop thinking its solo que who is suffering, casual swfs also is suffering, one of them major thing is as example use to have 50+ friends to always swf up with but being down to 2 to 0 because everyone has moved on to other games, I tell you if I was not such a sucker for glams and things in these rifts pass I would be long gone. The riff pass keep holding me back.
Same, I'm turbo grinding through the rift and soon to be event so I can put the game away for another couple months. Every update is the same trend.
Chases? Worse
Maps? Worse
Friends who still play the game? Fewer
Solo queue? New circles of hell
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@BlightAbuser said:
Survivors when any killer has an ounce of skill expression. “Get rid of it”
Killers when skill expression requires something other than throwing their mouse across the room: "Get rid of it"
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I've reported the exploit that lets PC players break his turn rate cap multiple times, but nothing ever gets done about it. Because Blight flicks weren't balanced but somehow 1 shot downs with the same bug are fine. Add the slugging playstyle on top and its just a boring slog of a match against him.
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Would be nice to give uncaged survivors some debuffs to action speed, maybe even for the rest of the match. Obviously this would be in compensation for adding anti-tunnel to the cages. Would give more incentive to cage survivors early instead of just saving it for the mori.
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Now do Oni
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@Gardhome said:
I see no problem here. There is full build around the end game Plus this is the only way to feel speed on Legion (cause Feral frenzy is very slow by itself).
I remember when 3% haste "completely broke chase mechanics". Oh wait that was a survivor perk. Never mind. Haste for thee and not for me, understood.
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@Shinkiro said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817094#Comment_3817094
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817560#Comment_3817560
A 60% kill rate is NOT a 60% win rate, it would average out to something like 2.5 kills, meaning draws are just as common as a 3k win. You're not even considering what the percentage actually means in game terms and instead using an "out of 100%" mindset which is inherently wrong and interpreting the data wrong. There's too many player factors to translate it to a direct win rate (hook suicide, friendly killers etc etc). Remember the game is asymetical, there arent even teams for judging a straight 50/50 balance.
This assumes players can actually play competently against each other and not survivors being blatently bad or doing dumb things which get them killed and snowball the game (which is often the case) because balancing for variable player skill is impossible.
BHVR: "The kill rate is an average, not a guarantee. You might kill 4 survivors one match and 0 the next, but that'll still average out to 50%"
I'm not wasting time refuting this killer main math again. It's already been done multiple times even in this thread.
What is not in dispute is since the devs moved their balance philosophy to unfairly favor killers (yes dying 60% of the time on average is unfair in a supposedly balanced pvp game, and its much worse than that for solo queue and with DCs included), the experience for survivor has become significantly worse. But sure, keep blaming the side that is currently the punching bags for "muh 500 Blight winstreak" for giving up instead of addressing an increasingly pervasive balance problem.
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@justadreampallet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817434#Comment_3817434
I never said that. I’m saying that killer is going to be stronger in a 1v1, and that you won’t win 100%. No one will. It’s just how it goes
I don’t expect to hit every shot as slinger and I don’t expect to lead a 2 gen chase as survivor.
the reality is both sides need to understand they are not the most important. Everyone deserves a fair gameThe op didn’t state why or what needs to be changed, and implied every killer is over powered, which is false. Most killers are alright and just need basic counter play, nurse and blight are hard to play against, Billy is rather hard, but that doesn’t mean nerf the entire side when there are killers like Freddy and pig, who are weaker.
60% kill rates are unfair, and have led directly to survivors giving up early in matches. Because most of the time, a single mistake early in the match results in a 3-4k at 2-3 gens. Shrunken maps with nothing to loop limit any ability to prevent being tunneled or have a good chase to enable the team to regain momentum. This leads to survivors feeling like they have no agency in the outcome of the match, and they are mostly correct.
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@justadreampallet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/426490/please-nerf-killers
you going to give us a reason why? Nerf everyone why dont’cha. Cause pig and Freddy are just as problematic as nurse and blight
I say learn the game, killer isn’t overpowered it’s an asymmetric game, killer is meant to be stronger then survivor, that’s why there is 4.
Every killer is different and if you can’t handle not winning play another game, everyone has a chance to win and if you can’t see that then play a single player.
"Can't handle not winning" is rich coming from the side that demanded mmr changes to enable 100's long winstreaks, and wants the game balanced in a lopsided way.
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115% move speed spirit with unlimited power duration and window vaulting with an add on to block the window. and Demo and Pyramid Head powers on top for no reason. yea seems fair….
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These are still bugged as of the current patch.
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115 movement speed spirit that gets to vault windows in power, with a better version of Demo's power and Pyramid Head's power thrown on top. Are the Sable cosmetic sales that low that they're being this blatant with power creep?
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Who needs 2v8 when every new killer gets 3 powers?
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@caipt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3814752#Comment_3814752
get a teammate to help?
Lol sure let me just coordinate that without comms, while giving one of the highest burst damage killers 3 targets in one spot, while taking 3/4 of the team off doing objectives, and if anything goes wrong the match is over. All from the galaxy brain amazingly high skill killer play of, wait for it...staring at the hook with a hatchet raised.
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@caipt said:
Its the anti face camp mechanic designed to stop the killer from standing directly in front of the hook. If hes outside the radius its doing its job and the teammate can save you without a trade.
Also asking for distortion buffs specifically to counter scratched mirror myers is certainly a takeHow do I "save without a trade" when a huntress stands 16.1 meters from the hook with a locked and loaded refrigerator?
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806886#Comment_3806886
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806887#Comment_3806887
You are right, my bad, didn't pay enough attention to it.
Then it's another useless statistic from BHVR, lol. Good to know that Distortion Sable having 0 seconds of chase per match and me with 2 minutes of chase per match both have 1 minute on average.- Posts statistic to support argument.
- Someone points out statistic supports the opposite position.
- Statistic is now "useless"
Lol
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There is no reason to remove the mori ability from the green and red offerings. This was pointed out multiple times during the first ptb test of the system but they still went ahead with removing it...
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Step 1: find a chest
Step 2: obtain an item
Step 3: drop the item in front of the killer
Step 4: try to look cute
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@TragicSolitude said:
Self-caring takes precedence over using a key to open the hatch, too.
The recovery issue and the self-care issue have both gotten me killed. I've reported it as a bug and it gets ignored. Drives me nuts.
I don't think it was always like this, right? Like beyond a year or two ago I don't remember ever having an issue crawling into hatch.
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Yes
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773477#Comment_3773477
That backfill logic is due to the community itself. Each and every time we're asked if we prefer quality matches or faster queues, the resounding answer is always for queue times. The division of the playerbase due to the uniqueness of 2v8 and l also the regular mode confirms this, with the supreme outcry for killer wait times.
Then if killers will still be free to lobby shop as much as they want, and BHVR won't make any effort to fix backfill logic, what is the point of this change?
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Changing the backfill logic of throwing out any mmr and just pulling a baby Meg / Trapper when someone leaves a lobby would have a far better impact on matchmaking than hiding prestige. Killers that want to lobby shop will just use other perceived proxies for "skill" like cosmetics, items, full lobby of the same character or all playing on the same platform. You're not solving the problem.
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These hairstyles are still the wrong color. They are supposed to be BLONDE as they were when first released.
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@Peanits said:
Moris are very flashy animations which reveal a little about the Killer performing them. They currently don't come into play very often since they require an Offering or for a Perk with specific conditions to be used. We'd like for them to be a little more present in the game, and having them happen at the end of the match feels like a fitting and cinematic way to close out a match without affecting gameplay too heavily.
However, I want to stress the fact that this upcoming version is not the same system that was tested before. This version has been significantly scaled back after we received feedback. We will share more once this update is a little closer.
Wanting them seen more often seems contradictory to how this feature was testing, by removing moris from all other perks and offerings. Any version that continues along that track is the wrong way to go. Same for removing player agency by forcing a cutscene match ending abruptly.
Yellow mori basekit is all that is needed.
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2 years of grinding well spent…
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Isn't the point of "prestige" to show off to other players? What's the point of having it if no one can see it.. 🤔
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@squbax said:
While you can wait for crows that means gens will be done so that is NOT a solution. Best solution is to pick em up and eat the flashbang/stun, there is no real counterplay if you do not have lightborn but you can just eat it up and try to continue the match.
Ok, that's….kind of dumb. Thanks, I was hoping there was some counter I was missing. I don't really like running Lightborn because I don't mind the "normal" interactions with flashlight users. I don't really consider eating up to 6 saves in a row "counterplay". Like 2 extra seconds of DS under specific anti-tunnel conditions was too strong, but 30+ seconds of basically being stun locked with no counter except hoping they mess up the timing?
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3768057#Comment_3768057
I don't think that's a logical conclusion to make.
If anything, it'd be the other way around.
Woosh
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5 add ons every match is already too much, she doesn't need 7
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@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767435#Comment_3767435
You get downed fast. That's not being tunneled. You are not using that word correctly.
Thanks I'm so glad you were watching my match to see what happened. Enjoy coping with those 20 min queues wondering why survivors won't want to play this mode.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767406#Comment_3767406
How can you get tunneled in a game where you spawn in a pod far from the killer?
How can you get tunneled in a game where the killer has so many people to handle he doesn't even remember he hit you?
Seriously, do you know what "tunneled" means? (hint: it's about the tunnel vision of a killer only chasing a single survivor)
How can you be tunneled by a mechanic that was copy/pasted from one of the best tunneling killers? In a mode where you'll get "scout mode" teammates urbaning away after uncaging you? In a mode with zero anti-tunnel perks? Yea this will go about as well as lights out mode once killers figure that out.
400% of 5k is still less than an average killer score so I'll stick with that role thanks.