Rogue11
Rogue11
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- Rogue11
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Looks like a bug to me
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Nothing to see here. Perfectly balanced.
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If the only way killers won't run 4 slowdown perks is if they get perma wall hacks, perhaps stacking slowdown is too strong?
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Would this combo + Skull Merchant = negative fun?
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This bug is currently still in the game.
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inspired by true events
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@Mandy said:
That window was removed for a reason, it made for an insanely strong loop that was virtually impossible to catch a survivor at, even with bloodlust. So it was removed deliberately and will not be returned.
so nothing about the rest of the loops being "killer walks around the short side of pallet one time and gets a free hit"?
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Haddonfield, Rancid, and non-dungeon Borgo are free wins for killer.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3746411#Comment_3746411
Kill rate is not win rate.
Example: you get a 2K every game. 50% kill rate, 0% win rate.
Only a 3K+ is a win for the killer. Hence balancing for 50% kill rate is balancing for the killer to lose more often than not. It needs to be nudged up a little to be between 2K and 3K to be a balanced win rate for the killer, which is between 50-75%. Which is exactly what they're aiming for.
Afaik we have no information on win rates from the devs.
This killer main math that been debunked multiple times. I'm not going to bother doing it again. Pretending that a 2k is a "loss" for the killer but a win for survivors is flawed. 50% chance of living or dying is fair. Anything else is not.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3746392#Comment_3746392
Sorry, if you believe game is balanced for one side, you are new or intentionally ignoring anything that doesn't match with your narrative
That's one big of a bias
Is it bias when the devs literally admit they balance the game unfairly for killers? The more killers that get omega-buffed into 60-70% win rates, the more playing survivor, especially solo queue, feels hopeless and depressing. But sure lets punish survivors more!
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@Neaxolotl said:
Everyone will be sick for literally every popular killers, it doesn't even matter whether they are balanced or not
Perhaps we should stop listening to those who pathetic enough to the point they can't even stay on a match, and finally remove the capability to throw the game without any consequence
Or perhaps we should stop balancing a pvp game around one side consistently winning more than the other, and then being surprised when the other side feels like they don't have a fair chance. Tugging on hook was in the game for 7 years but wasn't a "problem" until the devs started balancing for unfair kill percentages.
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@revna said:
As a billy main myself who only M2's regardless of outcome, what do you feel your common issues are with him? Engravings don't make him hard to deal with. It's actually harder to master Billy running engravings and it's encouraged for the average player not to use them unless you've really put in time on him. The more casual players will struggle running engravings while predicting flicks and feathering in the windows while trying to get the turn rate right. I will say the difference between playing against a mid level Billy player vs a master is….a very noticeable change.
To shine light on it I mean Billy has struggled for a long time so it's actually good that he's getting a hefty influx in play time. I've been playing him for years and even with the changes it still lands him in the middle of the pack of the 6-7 killers at the top for kill rates. I think one thing people get triggered by and I'll admit it myself. Is getting hit by ridiculous flicks and that is what results in people giving up. I remember going up against some blight players that knew how to moon rush or do crazy techs and I'm just like….wow. It almost feels hopeless and I totally get it.
There is one thing you can do against Billy that most people don't use and that is crouching when he's sawing. It actually affects his hitbox on a massive level and sometimes crouching to the left or right of his saw path makes him miss A TON.
I will agree overdrive makes his cross map presence on large maps with lanes borderline ridiculous but that is hard countered on the other end with maps iike Leary's where you're almost forced to M1.
For sake of conversation what add-ons are you noticing the most that you're losing to? Is it high prestige Billy's running engravings? Are they only hitting M2's? Are they doing a mix?The buff to the curve window tilts chase balance too much in his favor at most loops in the game. He can turn a corner blindly and still have enough control time to react to whatever mindgame you choose. This changes his counterplay from risk/reward greeding at loops to prethrow the pallet or die. And if he has Thompsons Mix and/or LoPro you still die anyways.
I don't take streamer opinions as gospel but I do think this statement is accurate.
https://clips.twitch.tv/SuperSpunkyGazelleArgieB8-6K5y-Kc1X9WUfzcD -
even at 75% you could use some mindgames to escape chases by crouching at the right times to make the injured sounds nearly silent. now it'll just be back to survivors no longer even breathing while injured which is really dumb. on top of footsteps being inconsistent at best. I haven't been enjoying the event mode as killer due to losing chases to the quiet mode spell all the time, so this is not exciting to see.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745140#Comment_3745140
That you dont tunnel is not part of the topic. I was asking a question. If 100% noise reduction would be that strong, why can Killers easily tunnel Survivors who have Off the Record? Which also prevents Aura read?
You know, it gets tired to be right all the time on this forum.OTR is strong in general during a chase. What it's not strong at is preventing tunneling because usually a tunneling killer will just hit immediately off hook, remove the endurance effect, and then will have LOS to follow you. It is still quite useful for trying to break chase, but has a finite duration and limited number of uses that makes it balanced. Neither of those applies to IW.
And as mentioned before, no breathing sounds and footsteps that are as consistent as DBD's matchmaking make it a miserable experience trying to track people.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744697#Comment_3744697
I really don't see how this is so bad. I mean survivors that are healthy don't make sounds except for footstep sounds either. And it's not impossible to keep up with healthy survivors.
The issue is breathing sounds were tied to the old version of iron will, making an injured survivor quieter than a healthy one. If this hasn't been fixed, it's a problem. Also footsteps are notoriously inconsistent, sometimes being completely silent when separated by a thin structure.
This coupled with Distortion is also going to be a nightmare for solo queue with rat teammates unhooking you and vanishing into the ether leaving the killer with little choice but to tunnel.
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Horrible change. 100% was always stupid and shouldn't come back.
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@VantablackPharaoh91 said:
Or maybe… you're relying too much on items to carry you? For Entity's sake half of the items Survivors have aren't even that good and you can ALWAYS get more, how the heck is aura reading after you drop an item even that big a deal?
Because you're that scared of losing an item because you need it to crutch on? Why not just… you know… run PERKS instead of ITEMS if it's a big deal?
Because you can't get around it with Distortion? Friend you can't get around loads of things with Distortion. Calm down, this is way weaker minor non-offensive pressure than stacked Pain-Pop-Grim-DMS EVER was, and a hell of a lot less painful.
Why do you NEED to crutch on items so hard, you will throw the game to retrieve it because of two little perks that mean the KIller is running two less annoying things such as… I dunno… Pop-Pain Res which is still meta?
Why on earth are Killers always expected to learn, adapt, and try new things when Survs get strong stuff… but when something comes out that is strong for them, Survivors never ever want to adapt to it themselves and IMMEDIATELY call for nerfs? It was Alien, then Ultimate Weapon (which did need it), then Chucky, then Unknown, then gen control, then Vecna, now it's this. Always something, keep moving the goalposts, why can Survivors have nice things and never have to adapt but Killers cannot and always have to change constantly? That's not fair. Both sides need to learn to adapt. Personally as Survivor I adapt and change up my builds frequently the second there's something new for Killers. And as Killer, I've also needed to adapt more and more as stronger things for Survivor come out. This is part of the game.
Survivors get to have their same meta forever, but Killers have had to adapt more and more and more enough times over the course of 8. Friggin'. Years.
It is Survivor side's turn now.
If survivors had a perk combo that just instantly nuked whatever add ons you brought, how do you think it would go over? Surely you dont need to bring strong add ons every match. You're just relying on them too much to carry you. Just run no add ons and the survivors waste their perk slots!
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@Marioneo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742321#Comment_3742321
When it lasts 10 seconds it does not make any difference
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742384#Comment_3742384
When its permanent and rewarding failure not to mention its 4% yeah its pretty busted. Yet killers haste perks is just 5% for 10 seconds that makes no difference whatsoever
It's 3% and taking an injure is hardly a failure with how busted reworked maps and killers have become. And the post you replied to was calling for 30 seconds not 10.
Killer mains argued for months that chase speeds were so precariously balanced that any speed increase was completely unfair ("*cough* not bloodlust that doesn't count"). Now every chapter comes with a new killer haste perk and they need buffs? I think not.
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@fussy said:
I've never played with this combo before, but I swear, if this perk will get even tiny nerf, 4 slowdowns will be the only build I will run in any mood, any day, against everything. Because if you guys gonna cry that hard on every somehow viable perk combo (not even perk, combo) appears into killer side, you deserve absolutely nothing but sweatiest tryhards every single match. And I will become one, because I tried to read this bullshit. Respectfully.
if my choice is between 4 slowdowns or permanent wall hacks at multiple tiles unless i spend 2 mins searching every blade of grass trying to figure out where little timmy dropped his toolbox (while revealing my aura to the killer the entire time) i'll take the first option.
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No wonder you're struggling if you're hooking each survivor 4 times
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Reliably get 2-3 times more bp than the killer from just playing the match normally
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"15% is to much 5% doesn't make an impact what so ever"
Weird, I was told 3% was literally game breaking and threw every semblance of chase balance out the window...
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742232#Comment_3742232
why I'm I guaranteed to die all because he can stand still and insta-down anyone for free who decides to save
Why do you want a guaranteed escape?
Why do you want a guaranteed kill?
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Or if you're on console
Or if you use a controller on PC
Or if you have less than ideal ping
Or if the game just says screw you today -
too bad they didn't keep the turning transition animations from a few years ago. they made the movement look and feel less like a PS2 game, and it helped counter the incredibly skilled interaction of survivor throws mouse/controller across the room and you get auto aimed due to horrible coding.
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@BrightWolf said:
Just admit that you want to go back to a time when it was easy to bully the killer. Killers, especially M1 killers, are at a bit of a disadvantage right now due to the toolbox changes and the gen regression nerfs.
If you don't want to lose your items or have your aura read, just don't bring an item, simple. Killers are allowed to counter items, just as survivors are allowed to combat killer perks.
You mean when I had on average an equal chance of winning or losing a match in a pvp game? Yea that would be nice now that you mention it..
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
It's an aura reading perk that you, the survivor, have full control over once you know it's there. The game tells you your aura is being revealed by the perk. If you want, pick up the item and once you're done with it just go dump it in some corner where no one will ever go and it won't give any more aura reading value.
Either way, this combo really isn't an issue.
Sure just let me spend 2 mins searching every blade of grass looking for little Jimmy's toolbox, while showing my aura to the killer the entire time.
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First solo queue match tunneled and hit on hook for no reason with 3 gens left. Good thing DS was nerfed again! I'd hate to ever have perks that actually deter the most effective and easiest strategy of the opposing side in a pvp game. Think I'll be saving cakes unless I'm in at least a 3 man swf.
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Try actually chasing survivors around the map instead of babysitting a 3 gen. The pallets are all pretty weak.
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Maybe they should stop knee-jerk overbuffing killers from the PTB after 20 people play him in matches with no matchmaking and zero idea how their powers work and whine about them being too weak.
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@Nazzzak said:
"sometimes it’s bad for killer because you can get lost and stuck and have no idea where to go"
Except this is the same for survivors as well. We are all getting lost down there. No one knows the layout. Also I died in the basement down there because no one could get to me in time from the top floor. I also went to second hook in another game because, again, my team mates couldn't find their way to me fast enough. I've had another team mate go to second hook in a different game as well. So no, I don't think it's survivor sided at all. I think it's a difficult map for everyone to navigate.
i'll take "difficult to navigate" over "here's a small square of 3 houses and an empty street with 5 gens spawning on top of each other" any day
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Blight mains abusing a bug to gain an advantage? Why this is unheard of!
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I like it. Feels more like classic DBD spooky lighting.
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Yes please
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3730933#Comment_3730933
Because if you are tunneling the same guy over and over again, you have 1 survivor that goes for the save sure, but the other 2 survivors just get to power through gens for 6 hooks. You still have to down and hook that person, even if you hard tunnel them. So generally even if you spend 30 seconds doing that, the guy is on the hook probably for at least 15-20 seconds. So you are talking at least 50-60 seconds of 2 survivors just powering through gens times 6. If 2 survivors can't finish 5 gens in 6 minutes, with a 3rd supporting periodically between each hook state. They are doing something wrong.
Also survivors can make that call to NOT unhook the guy, because it takes 6 minutes to power through those hook states. So if the killer is waiting for the save to hard tunnel they are gonna be waiting a while.
Also, giving up should be a bannable, up to PERMABAN for doing it constantly. It ruins games more than anything else, and if you just take a look around. If someone wants out of the game because they don't like it that much, they should DC, sandbagging is bannable as well, so no issues there if someone "intentionally sandbags" they get banned for it, so that'll be the deterrant of that.
An easier solution that wouldn't potentially upset game balance as much would be increasing hook state timers. This is a potential solution to a lot of proxy camp/tunnel gameplay that leads to whoever gets found first assuming they have no chance of escaping.
Right now the easiest zero-effort killer strategy is staring at your first hook from 16.1 meters away with your power ready to tunnel the unhooked survivor (even better if you can slug the rescuer during the unhook while you continue tunneling). With the way the math works on gen times vs hook state timers, it just takes too long to push through the gens and exit gates without at the very least giving the killer a 2k. Often its a 3-4k when used with multiple early game slowdown perks that have no requirement of actually leaving the hook for more than a second or two, and then noed to clean up the last two if they manage to finish the gens.
I don't see any other way around this if the devs continue to insist on reworking maps into small dead zones and systematically buffing every killer. Because just "getting good" enough to loop a killer for 3-5 gens when being tunneled is no longer feasible.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3730554#Comment_3730554
Sounds like someone who can't do it…
New peripherals are expensive
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Throwing your mouse across the room is not "skill".
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3727741#Comment_3727741
Unknown map has a problem that it really need another Gen in the parking lot. Currently complete Main Gen will cut down 30% of the map to patrol.
Especially the Main being at a corner far away from other 4 Gens give no incentive for killer to make chase in Main.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728152#Comment_3728152
Its not what you say, but it goes like this:
- Killer tunnels a survivor out in 3min, that survivor's fun is not their responsibility.
- But as soon as a survivor suicide on hook, suddenly killer cares about the other 3 survivors' fun: "you ruined the match to other 3 survivors."
Yes, you're right about that map. Usually 4 gens spawn very close together in that mess of a forest around shack. 1 in main, 1 sort of close to the parking lot, and 1 way in the back. I could see it working better if they were spread something more like this. The X's are roughly where I see the gens currently with the arrows where they should move.
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@PreorderBonus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3727741#Comment_3727741
If a team 3-gens themselves in a dead zone, it's simply bad play from the survivors. This is why a lot of people are running Deja Vu. Also, Temple of Purgation has good pallets in the "hallways" which can be played by both sides. They have long walls, and some of them have shorter walls that are impossible for the Killer to mindgame, making it easier to play as a survivor. Additionally, there are a lot of LoS blockers to take advantage of, and even hills where you can completely lose the chase if you run BL.
By the way, even after its rework, Temple of Purgation is a map where if the last 4 unrepaired gens are split up, the Killer cannot realistically win the match. This is true for a lot of maps. So maybe stop mindlessly repairing gens, start running Deja Vu, and you'll notice how good that map actually is.
Your comment screams "I never play Killer" to me. These are such basic concepts of the game that you quickly learn when playing enough of both sides, that I cannot tell if you're trolling or being serious. However, if you genuinely think that a lot of maps are that easy to winstreak in, you're welcome to post your winstreaks to back it up.
Oh, and on the topic of map reworks, it's interesting that you only focus on the ones that made the map smaller, while conveniently ignoring the reworks that didn't affect survivor strength at all (like Eyrie of Crows and Garden of Joy). So, what's your stance? Are all the reworks Killer sided, or are you just cherry picking examples to support your argument?
You'll be lucky if you get 1 long wall pallet in those areas, and it will get used in the first chase. No windows, no way to reach another strong area without running straight through the killer. Most of the time you get garbage pallets with 2 short sides that are a free hit for any killer on the roster. Lmao at you calling out a hill as a strong tile for survivors.
My comment wasn't about whether it's possible to break a 3 gen or not. My point was putting 3 gens in an area with nothing to loop removes any skill expression from the survivor side. You go to an area where ~40% of the objectives are located, if you get chased, you're guaranteed to go down. Feels such skill expression! Good thing there aren't multiple killers that excel at camping one area of the map….
I play killer and laugh at how absurdly free wins are on reworked maps like Rancid, Haddonfield, and Borgo.
Eyrie and GoJ reworks both made the maps more killer sided/less survivor sided. Eyrie was made smaller with gens packed together making 3 gens common on either side of main building. GoJ side opposite main building had all of it's tiles made much weaker for survivors. I'm sure they'll gut the map completely sooner or later.
Since you're so knowledgeable on map reworks, which ones were actually survivor sided? You would have an argument for The Game. That's literally the only one that became more survivor sided after a rework. So Eyrie, GoJ, every Coldwind map, every Autohaven map, RPD, Ormond, Borgo, Haddonfield, all reworked in favor of killers. Now who's cherry picking?
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@PreorderBonus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3727393#Comment_3727393
If you genuinely think that survivors have no agency in chases anymore, I don't know what to tell you because it's straight up false. The game isn't as broken as it was before, but that doesn't mean that playing survivor is an instant loss and that playing killer is an instant win. If you think that you have no agency in your chases, I don't know how to tell you this, but you just might be bad at the game.
Sure, sometimes you get caught out in the open or in a dead zone, and you can't do anything but go down. But this has been true for the entirety of DBD's history, regardless of whether you started playing 7 weeks or 7 years ago.
Also, I play killer pretty frequently, and I almost always go for 12 hooks. I see survivors give up on the first hook without being camped or tunneled ALL THE TIME. There's literally no excuse to do this, and you're screwing the game for everyone else. I don't care how justified you feel you are in leaving when you want, but this type of player simply shouldn't be playing the game, period.
By the way, I'm not arguing against "giving up" when there are 5 gens left, 3 survivors alive, and one hooked. I'm complaining about that 4th survivor who gave up because things didn't go their way, making the match unwinnable and leaving us stuck until the match is over. Because let's not pretend that every give up is when the match is unwinnable. I can go play 5 games right now and I'll see a survivor trying to kill themselves on first hook at least in 3 of those games.
And as I mentioned in another comment, as a killer, you cannot give up without being penalized. As killer, you're forced to play matches that you know are lost because the game even punishes you for going AFK. Yet, as a survivor, you can give up as you please with no penalty whatsoever, which encourages leaving difficult matches and focusing on playing games that are easy, even if that means screwing over dozens of games in the process. How is this healthy?
Here's an example of what I mean when I say survivors don't have agency in chase. Temple of Purgation has 2 entire sides around the main building that are nothing but narrow corridors with 1-2 garbage pallets that are free hits for the killer. And since they are up against the edge of the map, anyone working on gens in this area has zero chance to reach any useful structure where their survivor skill matters. Agency in this situation would be, "oh I know this area is a deadzone so I should stay away". But guess what? 3 gens always spawn in this area! Another reworked map gets BHVR's 500 Killer Winstreak Seal Of Approval. This is consistent with the pattern over the last 2 years of turning every map into a small square of garbage where gens spawn way too close to each other and 80% of pallets are killer walks around the short side and gets a free hit
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@PreorderBonus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3727248#Comment_3727248
True, I forgot that BHVR promised that when you play survivor, you'd be able to run the killer for 5 gens and then escape. So, of course, when that doesn't happen and instead they get downed in 40 seconds, my teammates are allowed to leave. It's not their fault, it was BHVR!
Right, so killers whined until any agency survivors had in a chase is gone. Meaning survivor skill doesn't matter when it comes to being tunneled or getting "downed in 40 seconds"
Then you compare the math on how long it takes the other survivors to finish 5 gens while the killer stands 16.1 meters from the first hook waiting to tunnel this person out of the match.
Then the devs give killers multiple perks that stall gen progress without having to actually leave the first hook. Making it even less likely that waiting to be camped/tunneled out of a match will have any actual benefit to the team.
Then you consider the amount of points you're likely to earn as a survivor for staying in a hopeless 3v1 at 2-3 gens vs the killer that can now draw out the match and easily hit 35k or more.
Idk it's just a mystery why players don't see a point to staying in these matches!
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To rephrase, BHVR making survivor borderline unplayable is making them give up
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Every time I try going back to TCM I spend 7 minutes trying to get out of the basement just to usually be 1 shot killed by Bubba or double teamed by the other 2 killers the second I make any progress. And the lobby/party systems are even more jank than DBD.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726181#Comment_3726181
Well unlucky if you don't like him, I think he is still one of the most fun killers to play against in the game. And I would not say he was over buffed, although I will say that lopro should have never existed to begin with and is still bad addon design.
LoPro was fine before his entire kit was way overturned.
The fun of playing vs Billy was greeding pallets in a high risk/ high reward way where most tiles were 50/50 and the better player wins. Now it's just "drop the pallet or die if the Billy has a few hours of muscle memory. And also die anyway if he has LoPro or Thompsons Mix.
The longer curving window was way too much.
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Billy was massively overbuffed and I'm tired of pretending he's still remotely fun to play against.
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@Anniehere said:
If something makes someone feel uncomfortable, it's a valid thing to point out. Not justifying it ignores the reality that people have different reactions to what it's supposed to mean. If a number of people see it as a joke, that doesn't mean it's okay or acceptable.
I got an answer here, you can move on.
This is the internet. HR is down the hall.
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@Marioneo said:
The year is 2025 Gamers in mass groups are getting sent to prison for SA cause they Teabagged in a video game. Know how ridiculous that sounds?
Do you think the camps will have LAN parties? Asking for a friend…
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I wish I could at least hear the lobby lines from teammates. I used to hear Ash talk whenever a teammate switched to him. It would be fun to hear the RE characters lines when I load into lobby with them. Maybe just out a 30 second cooldown so they aren't spammable.
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I just want them to fix his m2 having no animation or sound queue sometimes from the survivor perspective.
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Weird, I was reliably informed that bump logic was in every way superior to hug tech and I would rue the day BHVR took the "only for fun" exploit away…
