Rogue11
Rogue11
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- Rogue11
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@turksmall236 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885798#Comment_3885798
Something something lobby dodging
if there are perks that are so terrible no one would want to play with you if they knew your build, that is a bigger issue.
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So nothing about reversing course on the awful map design choices of the last few years?
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Weird how the top 3 killer perks are some of those useless slowdown perks. Surge, Grim, DMS, and Deadlock all in the top 15 too.
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Mine were more like 8-12 mins but I'd rather have the 400% bonus on survivor if bots weren't involved
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884994#Comment_3884994
It's also simple as Legion to respect pallets. Acting like stunning them is a given by just going to a pallet is being disingenuous. It's not that hard to avoid a pallet stun.
Yea nothing i love more than playing hit validation roulette every 30 seconds in 2v8. At least in normal mode you can generally counter him by spreading out
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Well I'll play if I can get enough friends on to get a full 8 swf. Still won't solo queue as long as bots are involved
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884236#Comment_3884236
Maps simply aren't as empty as you say. Even on the accursed Coldwind maps, there's loads of them, in addition to the map size. And maybe the killer's chase time has gone down because the average killer has gotten better. They've improved to meet the ridiculous standard that's been set, that 20-30 second chases is still game-losing unless you also get max value from perks, barely break any pallets or kick any gens, AND face inefficient opponents WITH bad map RNG.
Yea only killer players have improved over 9 years and survivors stayed the same. Makes perfect sense! Nothing to do with the last 4 years of map, perk, and killer reworks designed to boost kill rates at the expense of skill expression.
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@Moonras2 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884220#Comment_3884220
When I started survivors had a lot more resources, maps were larger, 2 pallets could spawn on one tile, and a survivor could greed loops into a vacuum pull to avoid hits. Dead hard was still used for distance, ds had no requirement, even when changed to needing wiggle progress it was still stronger, and was more chase oriented than anti tunnel. Borrowed time worked on both survivors. Hatch could spawn earlier and keys could get everyone out.
No egc existed, all perks still worked at the end. BNPs were instagen, etc…
Killers had their own things as well that were stronger then but I remember loading into matches with only 2-3 survivors and still winning games. That's not really possible now and honestly it shouldn't be like that.
I'm not saying these changes weren't needed but survivors had a lot going on back then.
Survivors also had actual opportunities for skill expression instead of pallets that the killer walks around the short side of once to get a hit every time. Having or not having 2 perks is now more effective anti-tunnel than map knowledge and mechanical skill, because average chase time is 20 seconds due to empty maps and certain killers have little to no counterplay.
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I won't play with bot teammates, and I haven't had enough friends on to get a full 8 swf since the first day. Hopefully they realize this was a terrible decision.
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I wish you all the incredible bot teammates you could ever ask for.
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How would driving survivors away from the game entirely for 2 weeks help 2v8 killer queues?
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@ThatRyanB said:
Hey there folks. Popping in here to let you know that our Community Team is treating collecting and sharing feedback with the team as our top priority today. While I'm seeing general comments about how folks feel about bots in here (which we are also sharing with the team), I'd also love to dig into the specifics of how you're feeling, as these can often be the most useful feedback points.
If there are specific instances of bots doing things that you've liked or have found disruptive in 2v8, I'd love to hear them.It's a multiplayer game. We don't want to play with ai teammates. Simple as.
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Patiently waiting for the "lol bots are better than 90% of teammates" crowd to fill up those survivor lobbies. I thought we were told feedback was overwhelmingly positive for bots being added and we were just the "vocal minority"?
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Lol predictable. I look forward to the few killer mains still coping that "the bots are better than 90% of survivor players" when stuff like this will be happening nonstop for this event.
So far it seems like killer queues are still long so all they did was remove any fun from playing survivor in 2v8. I'll be playing killer or only playing survivor in a full 8 swf to get the challenges done.
Lots of players told them this wasn't the solution but here we are.
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Maybe if there were more than 3 slightly survivor sided maps you would see more offering variety
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@TonTon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881814#Comment_3881814
As Mandy has stated neither incentives nor massive buffs and abilities to survivors were not enough to alleviate nor get people to fill the Queue so this is there next option.
You are a vocal minority and there was plenty of positive feedback to this on twitter reddit and even on the forums you just did not look hard enough
Ah yes I too often have to "look harder" to find the majority opinion on social media.
Haven't seen anyone happy about this other than a few killer mains thrilled about 2 free kills every match.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881435#Comment_3881435
I agree - they make a temporary solution and people still complain. Also - A lot of us were okay with having a couple of bots to make queues faster. Maybe not the majority here on the forums - but on other social media platforms people are actually happy about it.
We didn't ask them to replace 20% of the playerbase with terribly coded AI
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@MarbleThrone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881268#Comment_3881268
Unless it's endgame at which point they'll open gates and leave xD
And will perpetually run in circles between 2 terror radius or bug out trying to navigate the map and handle wesker spray bottles.
I'd rather have a teammate give up than be gaslit into thinking i actually have a chance to escape with bots. Bots just prolong a lost match so the killer can farm more points.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3880640#Comment_3880640
yeah but this is DbD optimization we’re talking about here…
I mean yea. I'm just saying fog effects aren't some impossible graphical achievement when it ran fine on 2004 tech 😄
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@Nazzzak said:
I thought they'd just be back up, not a definite. So it's 6v2 basically because bots run at the hint of a terror radius. I'm doing the Tome and not touching it afterwards.
Sounds like this also means on the off chance you can scrounge together enough friends, you can't even avoid it with a full swf of 8 players. I'll be playing killer instead to get the rewards and then avoiding entirely. No way would I touch survivor with this mess.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
Well that's it. I was never a big fan of 2v8 to begin with but this is the straw that broke the camels back. Absolutely will not be playing this.
Instead of trying to, you know, make the gamemode actually fun for both sides they've just went ahead and replaced 2/8 survivors with robots. It would be comical if it weren't so sad how much they've clearly given up on solo surivors.
Don't miss out on the event rewards! Play killer 😉
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@Science_Guy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3880952#Comment_3880952
Who knows. 2v8 and RE are the two most popular things BHVR has ever done, so combining them is probably going to make for a successful event no matter what, sadly. People who actually care enough to check forums or news are a small minority of the player base.
That said, it would be hilarious if enough survivors hate the idea of playing with bots so much that it actually makes queue times worse. It'd take one out of four survivors deciding they won't play with bots for queue times to be just as bad. Any more than that and queues would be worse.
I'll just play killer to finish the challenges, thereby making the queues worse 😉
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So they want to artificially increase survivor queues by 33% but what happens if 30-50% of survivor players don't want to play with bot teammates?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3880545#Comment_3880545
Yeah, the power fantasy can only be fulfilled if actual players get crushed. The thing is, unless they do massive improvements on the Survivor Sidee, there will not really be any way that the queue times will be short. I mean, unless you add Bots, but I would say that at this point it would already turn into some quasi-PvE. It would be nice if I am proven wrong, but I would guess that you might end up with at least 4 Bots per Team, at least this is my suspicion when I looked at my own queue times in 2v8 as Killer.
The thing about the mechanics they introduced in the last version of 2v8 is just that they did not really change much for Survivors. Adding the possibility to do Flashlight Saves again was nice, since it gave Survivors more to do than just pressing more M1. The comeback mechanic is also such a thing, because it did not only include for Survivors, Killers also had Slowdown the more Gens were done.
The main issue with 2v8 is just three things:
- Pressing M1 is boring and Survivors have to do more of that in 2v8
- Getting double-teamed is not fun since it removes any chance you might have - I found it very frustrating to run a Killer around and then the other person arrived and negates any form of Skill Expression you can have on both sides
- If you are not in a full or at least big SWF, you have to rely on more factors, which can make you lose as Survivor. I reached second stage while 7 (!!!) people were in this game who could have unhooked me.
Bots will probably drive more players away from playing Survivor than anything else, since Bots are just horrible. And I highly doubt that they will merge 1v4 and 2v8, the reality is if Bot Fills will not work and the Devs are not willing to make 2v8 more enjoyable for Survivor, the mode is gone for good. They will not merge the queues, because this would mean that players who dont like 2v8 would either do massive amount of lobbdy-dodging if they end up in a 2v8-lobby or just not play at all.
Personally, I will play the bare minimum of this mode again. It is not fun on either side for me, as Survivor I dont want to deal with more headless chickens running around while double-teamed and as Killer I think that there is no challenge at all. All games aside from one (where I got sandbagged by the other Killer) were at least a 7K for me. And since I dont have such a win ratio in 1v4, it has to be that the mode is very killer-sided to the point that the challenge is removed.
Not enough killers in queue -> BHVR rebalances the entire game so killers can win most of their matches.
Not enough survivors in queue → BHVR: "play or be replaced by AI"
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
I think the fog rendering caused people’s systems to explode
If silent hill could render fog on the ps2, anything from 2016 should be able to as well.
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Feels balanced lmao. that includes at least 2 weeks of old data so he's probably above 70% post rework. two anti-loop powers, neither of which require any pre-setup, old skull merchant-level hindered, on demand teleport, and passive slowdown/side quests. checks all the boxes for the broken state of killers.
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Bots are a deal breaker. No participation for me.
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No matter what system they use, stopping the backfill bs where it throws even the terrible matchmaking logic they're using out the window as soon as someone dodges.
"Removing prestige from lobbies will stop killers dodging!" As i'm waiting for the 4th killer to ready up because two of us happened to be playing RE survivors… -
@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/437395/improve-survivor-daily-challenges
First you would need to change the whole system so that someone could even get those dailies and not just once every blue moon after a blood ritual is performed on a virgin sheep. Second, ive never heard of anyone throwing a game for daylies as survivor.
I've had multiple matches where one teammate brings a hatch offering and hides the entire match. When they get called out in the post game chat for doing nothing, the response is "sorry I had a daily to escape as ________". Solo queue is miserable enough already. At least we could have challenges that encourage being a good teammate.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876464#Comment_3876464
Phobias can invoke psychosomatic responses, so its not always that simple. There are people who already quit vs clown/plague as it is (even others like artist) due to not being able to stick through the matches, and I honestly feel worse for them than I do the people who ragequit or go next out of impatience. I don't think they should be adding more phobia adjacent killers until they improve their options regarding the existing ones in the game (locally selectable options for things like vomit noises, a local override for clown to have his face hidden like some of his cosmetics, local replacement sounds and visuals for artist crows, etc.) These things aren't even terribly difficult to program, and there are ones that could be made for a spider related killer, but the track record so far is non-existent. Given BHVR's wishy-washy approach to accessibility I don't see them rolling out options like that any time soon, so I don't think putting more players into that situation is a good idea. Especially when people already abandon games too much as it is.
scary killers in a horror game are out of the question lmao
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@ABAEX said:
can you play as killer and get 3/4 kill before 5gen all done for 100 times with out cut off?
if killer want to 3/4 k, this game now need killer chose hook or leave downed survivor.
I love how the standard for balancing the game needs to be "I must be able to win 100 times in a row or its unfair". And killers will STILL say survivors are "entitled"
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@CursedPerson said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874434#Comment_3874434
not everyone pays attention to what survivors are running in lobby, also they could be worry about switches or flashbangs too
Yea I can't blame anyone for running LB as long as flashbang locker saves are still a thing.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873661#Comment_3873661
There absolutely are reasons to bleed survivors out on the ground…
When all 4 survivors are slugged, they will very often still try to wiggle if they are picked up. And hook respawning doesn't change the fact that there often are situations where all 4 survivors aren't in range of 4 separate hooks, especially if they were slugged because they all stayed in the same area.
If multiple survivors haven't been hooked yet, then placing any of them on a hook can actually make the game LONGER, because they might self-unhook and then try to pick up their teammates.
This is why I keep arguing that if a survivor has been slugged for 60 seconds, they should automatically get teleported to a 2v8 cage. It stops prolonged slugging, and ends the game quicker because the game would automatically end when all the remaining survivors are in cages.
so killers can continue slugging from the start of the match, bypass all normal game mechanics, and get rewarded with an auto-win? WOW what a compromise!
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@WolfePhD said:
The Demogorgon is such an iconic and legendary killer, but he feels bad to play. I played one match and then never again.
Demo is fun once you get the timing down on his lunge charge. I can usually win chases effectively unless I get the 10k hour homies swf, and that's probably more on me not being the best at killer.
He has good anti-loop and it has enough counterplay for survivors to keep it interesting and fun. His teleport is a little weak with the time it takes to set up, but you can always just plop some portals by gens for free information and a little extra slowdown.
I think he's stronger than he's given credit for and one of the most fun killers to play against.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873164#Comment_3873164
Oh for sure. It's on BHVR to implement a solution to address it, because certain player types are always going to behave like that. The Bartle taxonomy of player types is an interesting read. It's pretty clear what type these players fall under. It's really no different than any competitive sport. Basketball had to introduce a shot clock because teams would hold the ball and stall. Baseball had to introduce a pitch clock. There are many examples.
Imagining the football equivalent: "Cheap shotting the opposing team's quarterback and breaking his knee is just the most efficient strategy to win!"
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@Nocturnum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872425#Comment_3872425
That's kind of the point? Everyone is here to play, not have their time ruined by being stuck bleeding out for 5 minutes just because a crappy killer wanted a win and was willing to make the game miserable for it.
It's not about "giving everyone a chance" I want to play the game how it's supposed to be played, using perks, killer power etc. I can still get points by not being a jerk and ruining it for others. I don't need to tunnel to win either.
Tunnel/slugging can be done without perks. Camping can be done without perks. While for survivors they have to sacrifice their builds to always bring Unbreakable, Decisive etc. or be at the mercy of a crappy killer where they don't get to play. Again, where's the fun in that?It's a problem that people can throw the core gameplay out the window, not learn how to play, and still win. It's clear it was never meant to be a thing, people just abuse it for their own means and the devs have needed to do something about it for the past several years.
Also if you're willing to resort to doing scummy things just to win, you do care more about winning than having fun. You are the sweaty killer.You can bet if it reached a point where a majority of survivors run full anti-tunnel/anti-slug builds killers will just complain until they all get nerfed.
How do I know? Because its happened before. Doesn't anyone else remember the forum tales of insert sad violin theme "I hate tunneling default meg at 5 gens with Nurse, but if I don't, she could have DS available during end game! Just nerf DS and I swear I'll never need to tunnel again. Oh and also dead hard. And Adrenaline."
Every iteration of "just blanket nerf survivors again and I'll play in a fun way" has ended the same way. Maps being nuked, anti-tunnel perks being nuked, gens taking longer. Every time it just makes the same boring 9 year old killer playstyles stronger.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
I see Chaos Shuffle has started and decide to hop on after a week break from DbD. And how do my first two games of the modifier go?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OFL853H4RLYM/image.png
Get matched against the same slugging Pinhead twice in a row. Like come on. Why are some of y'all SO determined to be as miserable as possible? And for those who'll come in and say they're just using it as a strategy or some other nonsense, no they aren't. Obviously I can't show it here, but their username was a taunt that made it 100% clear they're doing this to annoy everyone.
I'm so done playing survivor during events. Sick and tired of being treated as a prop to be pushed around by disgruntled killers.
Don't worry! Soon you'll have bot teammates to help with event queues after killers drive most of the playerbase back to regular matches.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872061#Comment_3872061
1. i am talking about maps that have number of tiles lowered and made somewhat less frustrating to play on. I am of course excluding Eyrie which is still the most survivor sided map with safest tiles to ever exist in this game.Ormond Resort is a honorable mention too since it didn't really lose any of it's properties from the mini rework.
2. more basekit ways to deal with opponents means more autopilot playing of the game meaning skill gets toned down. You can't play e.g once a day and expect to be a good player. Also, you can't expect to do scrims every day and be absolutely good, take a month or even longer break and still be as good as you used to be.
In case of average pub player, SBMM, or i should better say lack of it, has pumped up egos of so many players thinking "ohh i am playing at top MMR and i am constantly losing, this game is sided to the role my opponents are playing".
1. You said 5. It's at least 14 just for number of tiles. I forgot to include RPD so it's 15 or 16 depending how you count it being split into 2 maps. It's more like 30 mininum when you include tile and layout changes.
2. "More basekit ways to deal with opponents"? So anti-camp mechanic that does nothing in 99% of matches, basekit BT that prevents being insta downed immediately off hook. And survivor UI. What do any of these changes have to do with skill in chase?
"Wow I can see that claudette is self caring in a corner, and Steve is on his 2nd hook state. Ah damn I forgot how to loop!"
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871978#Comment_3871978
ohh yeah, the good ol' excuse for people lasting so short in chase, the mighty "maps are getting smaller and have less resources" even though 5 maps in total are prone to this argument. What about the other 54? Do you maybe want to tell me that 54 maps are not enough to pull the average chase speed above 20s? Dude this is just plain coping with lack of self awareness in the game, the easiest thing you can do when you lose is constantly blame game and your opponents and never turn back to your mistakes and mistakes of your team.
- You're going to try and gaslight that "only 5" maps have been made smaller and/or got the ole "reworked tiles" treatment? Just from looking at prior patch notes on the wiki I can list 14 that now have fewer tiles than before, as well as at least 4 that had smaller 2nd variations added. That doesn't include maps that kept the same number of tiles but had the shape changed to make them easier for killers. That also doesn't include maps that had pallets removed and tiles replaced with empty garbage clutter. That also doesnt include newer maps that dont need to be reworked because they released in a trash state with small size and garbage tiles. We still going with 5 here??
- Show me an example of a pvp game where over 9 years of release, the average playerbase of only one side had its skill level decrease over time. I'd really like to hear your explanation for how, after thousands of hours of practice, survivors have somehow just regressed in terms of map knowledge, mind gaming loops, game sense, and mechanical skill.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871870#Comment_3871870
no, slugging didn't become infinitely stronger, in fact, it barely got any stronger at all. Forcing hooks is what got punished more and more over the time by game design. At the point where you have to think about everything that awaits you when survivor is on hook/gets unhooked, why would you force hook instantly?
Besides, skill of average survivor player didn't purely just stagnate, it deteriorated a lot over time. 20s chases aren't just a modern thing, they are a thing for years already.
P.S. Healing is still very strong meta survivor aspect, with syringes still being gigaoverpowered.
What looks like survivor skill "deteriorating" is often a result of crap reworked maps having no resources to extend chases.
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Slugging became infinitely stronger when BHVR collected half the pallets and bulldozed every useful tile on reworked maps so they could meet their 20 second chase goal. Why wouldn't you slug when you can down another survivor faster than a single health state heal?
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Flashbangs from locker pulls need to get the same treatment as flashlight saves but otherwise they're fair.
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@kit_mason said:
A drop to 4.4 doesn't actually do anything meaningful, because he spends the vast, vast majority of time in power, where his speed is increased to 9.2m/s.
It would in the sense that he would be punished a bit for missing with his power. This happens to spirit. If she uses a large portion of her phase and doesn't get a hit, she's forced to chase at 110% while her power recharges. It would help preserve resources vs a S tier killer.
Currently even if you greed a pallet/mind game/the blight player just misses, you'll just get 115% chased and have to drop the pallet quickly anyways. At that point the blight breaks the pallet, and you get no distance before he runs you down with his power.
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@Oputeeva said:
I mean if bot are correctly coded (especially killer bots) then why not? But they should be more often in event modes/modifiers/2v8 so we won't have wait for too long
Because DBD is a pvp game and no one wants to play survivor with bot teammates.
And most players don't even want to play killer vs bots.
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@TonTon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871062#Comment_3871062
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871060#Comment_3871060
When it's a 1 hour plus wait time the only experience is a waiting sim and since survivors refuse to give it a chance in the first even with the massive buffs they got they have only themselves to blame that this is happening
Are the bots going to purchase all the newest Sable skins during the events that survivor players aren't interested in?
What if survivors did give it a chance and it wasn't a fun experience?
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Wow, I didn't expect to have my suspicions proven correct that fast. Good luck getting anyone to queue for events without a full pre-made team. ✌️
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3870812#Comment_3870812
Who is you all?
"BHVR tried to make things better, as usual, it didn't work"
"Therefore, we need to shut down the game or ban people for not having fun"
Truly the only options 😂
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Since "crouch tech" is being patched as of the current PTB, and that was the one survivor "tech" killers could point to, to justify Oni being completely broken for PC players. Do you think we could actually fix this soon now? Chucky had a similar bug on release and was fixed within a few weeks. There is no reason for this to stay in the game any longer. If I see a PC Oni player I know its a 100% loss because the turn rate exploit renders every loop in the game meaningless.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869201#Comment_3869201
Toba is a large map with a LOT of clutter. Main building is good, it has good pallets and windows, and Shack is easily accessible. It's something I would call Survivor leaning, but I do think it still favors them.
Nostromo spawns better loops than Toba, is just as large but has a worse main and no Shack. Again, I'd call it leaning.
Thompson House has managed to retain its ability to spawn jungle gym chains to Shack, which I am weighting heavily because that's pretty ridiculous.
Thompson also tends to spawn 5 gens on main side so killers have zero reason to go anywhere near shack. I wouldnt call any of the coldwinds better than neutral after the recent crap tile replaced most of the jungle gym spawns.
Toba spawns tons of dead zones at both ends of the map (where most of the gens are) making it very easy to zone and guarantee hits.
Nostromo might as well be a Walmart parking lot with how big and empty it is.