Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@Desteriaa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353475#Comment_3353475
First off, I wasn’t the first person to be hooked… The first person hooked literally killed themselves the moment they were hooked. As soon as he downed me he started being toxic for no reason… The game was already over like why should I stay In a game where a killer is literally bullying me… The games was over before began which is why I said I wanted to move on and go next. Why is it on me to make sure you get your bloodpoints… No I’m not playing a game where I’m being bullied.. How is him slugging me and shaking his head at me getting him bloodpoints. How is him standing over hatch waiting for me and shaking his head giving him blood points. Then slugging me after he closed it be so serious. I didn’t do anything to deserve that. I shouldn’t have to change the perks i’m running to avoid toxicity.
"First person hooked literally killed themselves the moment they were hooked"
That right there. The person denied them bloodpoints and a decent game by doing that. Probably thought you were queued together and took it out on the rest of you. Not saying it is right, but there was definitely a reason.
And i'm not saying "avoid perks to avoid toxicity" tunneling and camping is not toxic, they are strategies. The point i'm making is, if you are running things that are countered by tunneling and camping, then you get tunneled and camped, you should "surprisedpikachuface.jpg" and should realize why that happened.
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@Desteriaa said:
I’ve been playing Survivor more than I have killer recently and It’s been nothing constant toxicity match to match. I get tunnelled out and camped which okay it’s a strategy I guess but getting that every single match when you didn’t do anything toxic. This match I just recently had was the last straw and it really sucks because I actually like this game.. I was going against a demo with a friend of mine he was extremely toxic to me from the start of the match for no reason so I just tried killing myself to just go next and not deal with it but he purposely went out of his way to not hook me and slug me and shake his head and nod at me for no reason and he was only doing this to me specifically because he didn’t do to my friend or my other teammates and I didn’t deserve that because I didn’t teabag or flashlight click or anything. Before anyone says I’m being overdramatic I’m not because the games before that was the exact thing so i’m done.
"He was really toxic from the start of the match so killed myself"
Then he didn't tunnel or camp you, because you were on first hook. Then you tried to give up, and the killer wouldn't let you. I do this too if a survivor tries to give up. Its BS, it denies me bloodpoints, it denies their team a chance at winning, and i honestly think it should be bannable.
Better question you should ask yourself. What did you do to get tunneled and camped? Do you run dead hard? Because the best counter to deadhard is to tunnel someone off the hook, hit them, so they get deep wounds, and now instead of dealing with 3 health states, you only have to deal with 1.
Try running perks that discourage the killer from tunneling you, not encouraging it. Run off the record, have your friend run borrowed time, run decisive strike.
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@FengShuiExe said:
The common and uncommon ones are really just Bloodweb bloat at this point. I already get plenty of the Puddings and streamers on killer. And why did survivor never receive a 100% bp all categories offering anyway? Were the envelopes capped at 25% because survivors were gaining bp too fast? Can't have that right, I miss my bp perks...
They should really just consolidate them for both sides.
brown - 50% all categories
Yellow - 100% in all categories
Cake/pudding - Becomes green, 150% in all categories for self
BPS - keep
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@Digfish said:
I think this way nets you the same. Sorry for the crude circles.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/M8VL5ROZGSX9/tome-14-level-3.png
Found that one as well, but i noticed that the challenges for that one are a bit harder.
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@Witchubtet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353064#Comment_3353064
I mean it’s better than the garbage that Leverage is now. I rather slow down a gen for a bit even if it only adds 9 seconds onto it, then have a perk that needs 5 tokens to be effective.
I'm saying that the current one is bad, and so will your changes. The one thing leverage has going for it, is that it will stack with other forms of healing reduction. So it'll mean forever legion is probably back. lol.
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@Witchubtet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353059#Comment_3353059
To add slow down and encourage people to save their teammates. It also could help SoloQs not get left to die by 3Man SWFs. Could be pared will with FOR, MYC, and Hex: DH.
I edited my post, read it now. But 5% isn't enough, and if you make it stronger it doesn't really make it useful either.
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@Witchubtet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353048#Comment_3353048
Then add a caveat like Monstrous Shrine. Killer can’t be within 24 meters.
Then what would be the point? 5% slowdown isn't enough to matter. It means a 90 second gen now becomes a 94.7 second gen. And you are almost never going to have more than 1 or 2 stacks. And if you do, you already won anyway. Additionally, if you aren't camping, and this was actually strong enough to matter. Then survivors best play would be to try to go for the hook, which now means you won't find them on the gen, which now means the perk isn't really getting value.
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@Witchubtet said:
So currently Leverage is Bad and not truly rewarding. So I have a small suggestion. Why not make it punish people on gens if someone is hooked?
The way it could work is on the first hook of a survivor it adds a 5% slowdown on gen progression if someone is on hook. This can stack up to 20% for the final token, but only lasts while a survivor is on hook and maybe ten seconds after they are freed. It looses a token once a survivor dies. So it doesn’t become overwhelming to 3 or 2 mans.
This would be terrible. Because it would encourage camping.
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@MikeyBoi said:
Hey guys,
Id like to discuss experienced killers that dodge lobbies for various reasons. Why do you dodge lobbies? Is it:
The survivors have too many hours? Too many medkits? Private/Anonymous profiles? Sweaty survivor outfits? Toxic personality and gameplay from previous games? Too experienced etc…could be a lot more reasons on top of previously mentioned.
I run with a pretty juicer squad and killers dodge us left right and center BUT when I play killer I sometimes do the same thing… As a double engravings Hillbilly main if I see or know a Swf that pre throws pallets when I’m miles behind them cause Ive played them before.. I’m dodging I’m sorry, I don’t want to play against a boring sweaty Swf that plays for a $20 subway gift card against a Billy. If I’m playing Blight or Huntress I’ll stay reguardless if it’s a strong Swf or not for the most part…
This seems to be imo one of the issues affecting matchmaking for newer/ less experienced killers that don’t know what to look out for when they load into a lobby after veteran killers have already dodged multiple times only to then get steamrolled by the experienced survivors that all the experienced killers dodged..
Should the developers implement a matchmaking penalty for killers that dodge too many lobbies? This is a touchy subjective topic but I feel like it needs to be said..
If i see legacy, i immediately leave. The amount of times i have played against someone with legit legacy vs someone who was an obvious cheater puts it heavily in the favor of the cheater. So i just don't bother and leave.
Outside of that, if i see 4 last second swaps to p100, i will open up task manager and leave. I have no problem playing against that, but only if i can prepare for it. Doing last second swaps is scummy.
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@egg_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3351483#Comment_3351483
The bug is on the survivor side: the directional audio isn't working anymore if there's minimum occlusion between the survivor and the killer, which means it's basically a guess all over again
You mean a mindgame? When did mindgames become bad again?
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@Saitamfed said:
Who thought using one of the archive missions with an hex would be a good idea? On top of that, the only yelling that counts is the one with the Hex: Face the darkness.
You don't have to get them to scream with only that perk. I think if you run the perk, but play doctor for example, those screams count. Or if you run the perk with other perks that make survivors scream it will count.
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348503#Comment_3348503
1) Stop kicking the generator that the player is on.
2) Just like Head On, Body Blocking, or any other annoying thing a survivor might do, you tunnel them out asap. Face camp them out if you really absolutely do not want to have it occur again.
Those are the ways we handle it.
Dunno about the other guy,
2) You tunnel them out.
Therein lies the problem. The counter to survivors doing stuff like this or brining dead hard, or god tier toolboxes or medkits, is to tunnel them out as fast as possible, which is not fun for them. The counter for killers camping and tunneling, is to just slam the gens as fast as you can with the other 3 and then escape, which is not fun for the survivor on the hook, nor the 3 survivors on the gens, and i'd argue the killer.
The most effective way to play this game, is the least fun for everyone involved. Let's ignore "sides" for a minute. I don't care which side you are on, but don't you think, for EVERYONE's sake, that that should not be the case? That it should be changed and fixed? So that the most effective way to play the game, for everyone, is to play the way that is most fun?
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I suspect we are going to start seeing them slow down a bit. For context, we have 31 killers right now. That is quite a lot. Even games like LoL and DotA slowed down when they started nearing the triple digits, and those games are very complicated and get changed all the time. DBD hasn't really changed anything since it's inception, outside of releasing new stuff.
My guess is either, a big refresh on how the game is played (new secondary objectives/game modes etc.) Or they will start going back and heavily reworking (as in like, they are basically a completely new killer) older ones like trapper and myers that desperately need some help.
As it stands we get a new killer/survivor combo every 3 months. I wouldn't be surprised if this coming year, or the following one, we start to see a shift to only 2 killers per year for a bit.
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@cheryl_enjoyer said:
Want to try something new and was thinking of Pain Res + Oppression on Doctor so the oppression skill check hits and its wonky, then Huntress Lullaby and maybe some other gen slowdown/regression perk if I wanna be sweaty or maybe just another perk to be annoying like Merciless Storm. I was wondering if this would work at all?
Merciless storm is terrible TBH, so is Oppression. The cooldown on it, is, well, oppressive. If you want the skill check aspect, Overcharge is probably better because you can apply it whenever you want basically. Even with pain res, you still can often kick gens.
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@HugTechLover said:
Now, this isn’t a complaint thread at all. Survivors should do their objective.
But hollyyyy hell some of these teams can really crank through them. 😂😂
Even on blight (QOL Build, medium addons) I’m having trouble keeping up with some of these teams; even with somebody constantly on hook / ending chases quickly.
I feel bad for the m1 killer mains. Y’all are some brave souls. Might be time to just start 8 hooking and letting my mmr sink a bit. xD
This is pretty much the case. The first chase will always result in your losing at least 2 gens, often 3, if the survivor you chase guesses right in a mindgame even once. Of course that assumes that survivors actually do gens. This is why as a killer you basically have to bring regression perks, if you don't you have to camp and tunnel, and often times even with all that you still have to play scummy to win.
I think it would be a much healthier place for the game if they made tunneling and camping impossible, probably 3 genning too, but then slowed the game down a bit so gens don't fly as fast.
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@nf452 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3347824#Comment_3347824
Yes there is a huge downside to dead hard. It is called consistency, or rather inconsistency. Most of these perks you describe share this. They are consistent..They will work 100% of the time when you need them.. E.g you are working on a gen on the first floor, or on a hill. You drop when the killer is close and balanced landing works 100%. You are working on a gen in a deadzone and you sprinburst to safety. Works 100%. You vault a window or a pallet with lithe. Works 100%. There are so many times that i was in a dead zone working on a gen and vaulted a TL wall or a stupid U wall and manage to reach a good tile before the killer caught up on me. It doesnt matter if you have to use them preemptively. By using them that way you can go to a safer area or even a great area with chained tiles. There are so many times that i've watched streamers with thousands of hours saying that they pressed E and they were dead on the ground. In addition to that, do not forget that the distance that a survivor can make when hit from the killer was nerfed way back. Im not saying that dh is not strong, but i point the downsides that u couldnt find.
The other thing that you say about tunneling the dead hard players as a strategy. Im not sure about the situation you describe. Maybe you are talking about when immediately another survivor farms them which i guess ok(?)..or you are implying that except from tunneling you are camping them too. There is no way you are in a chase far away from the hook and you have enough time to return back and the hooked survivor didnt have enough time to get at least healed inder the hook. If you play this way though, against goos survivors this is an easy gen rush.
What you describe is precisely why the perk needs to be reworked entirely. You shouldn't say "it should be strong because sometimes it doesn't work because of lag" they should fix both aspects of it because that is dumb.
Secondly, when i talk about tunnel, i mean right off the hook. If someone hits me with dead hard, the best play is for me to down them, and the proxy camp near a 3 gern, and then as soon as they get unhooked, i immediately hit them to get them into deep wounds, then hard tunnel them right off the hook, so i don't have to deal with the dead hard.
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@fratto said:
For me this is lookin like a pass, genuinely a very underwhelming chapter in almost every way.
I’m genuinely more keen for eruptions incapacitated removal than the the new chapter itself. The perks seem to just encourage farming your teammates and tunneling, Killer seems to just be a 3 gen. I pray there is an excuse for this quality
But it’s okay, I’m sure we were deprived of content this update because anniversary has something good planned… Right? …right?
Normally i buy chapters, but for this one, i'll probably just buy with shards like i did with the twins chapter to show them that what they didn't isn't great. Let your wallet speak for you.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3347822#Comment_3347822
I don't play that much Trickster, so perhaps there's something I'm missing, but what exactly is stopping a Trickster player from holding the last knife until after the DH, or from throwing a knife intentionally to the side to force a survivor into reacting even though the knife misses them?
Like I said, I don't play Trickster much, but those would be my instincts when I know a survivor has Dead Hard. As with most killers, the counterplay is to bait it out - or to just circumvent it, but outside of perks that doesn't apply to Trickster.
The knives move extremely slow. Not slow enough to react, and then move out of the way physically with travel time and animation and reaction. But certainly slow enough to determine if it will hit you, then press "e'.
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@Brokenbones said:
Heyo, I wanted to make a thread on this topic because after the Eruption fiasco the Dead Hard discourse has already begun to flare up again.
As somebody who's not really cared too much for new DH since it's rework, I wanted to try to come to an understanding about what issues people have with the new version and what bothers them the most about it.
For me personally - The only issues I've encountered with new DH while playing Killer are:
- Sometimes playing pallets is a lose/lose if the survivor has good timing
- The 'wait game' has only gotten worse compared to how it was pre-rework. I still think New DH is weaker than old DH but the fact that the perk is still pretty rewarding when it goes off leads to a lot of waiting.
- This also means that even if a survivor doesn't have it, they can pretend like they do to waste a bit more of the Killers time in chase. If you play survivor but don't use DH, try it - do the thing where you turn toward the killer when they are within lunge range and see how many times they actually wait.
That's it for me, what are your problems?
I have 3 main problems with dead hard.
Every other exhaustion perk in the game has a downside to its usage. Dead hard does not, or at least, the downside of it is extremely extremely situational. Let's look at all of them and their down sides.
- Adrenaline - The main downside of adrenaline is that it only activates at most once per game. Additionally, it is mostly used for the heal rather than the actual sprint burst. But regardless, once a game, pretty balanced overall.
- Balanced Landing - The drawback here is that this one is highly map situational. There are only a handful of maps where it is heavily reliable, and outside of those, each map has maybe 1 or 2 places you can actually use it. This is actually one of the "better" perks when it comes to not accidentally using it, or getting good value from it, but it is not able to be used everywhere.
- Head On - You have to sit in a locker to charge this one up in order to stun the killer, meaning it can't really be used in chase outside of a some really niche builds that probably only work once in a match before the killer catches on to your game.
- Lithe - People like to think this one is super easy and has no downside, but you can't NOT activate it during a fast vault. If you are getting chased, and you need to vault something, you are probably going to be forced to use it, because you don't have time to slow vault. This means you can't loop around a structure multiple times, and then just before you get hit, lithe away to a new structure. You are forced to use it early. It is probably the least efficient exhaustion perk because of this.
- Overcome - This one only works when you are healthy and not when you are injured. Additionally it is countered by insta-downs. Meaning you won't always get value out of this one unless you come with lots of healing.
- Smash Hit - This requires a pallet stun, which is often easier said than done. Additionally, stunning the killer with a pallet is often a chase ender anyway, unless they are nurse or something. So what this does is just end the chase harder.
- Sprint Burst - Similar to lithe, you are basically "forced" to use this if you want to run somewhere, unless you do the work to "99" it. Which means you had to already have used it once, and then hold it. And also while you are holding it, you can't stop running, because if you do, you will no longer be "99" it. Basically, like lithe, it is one of the better exhaustion perks, but is hard to use efficiently without other perks. Meaning you can sometimes be caught in situations where you don't have it, and you want it, or where you don't want it, but you have it.
Then we come to dead hard. What is the downside? In theory it is that you have to be injured. But, that is a natural thing that will happen during the course of the chase. The downside is just that, non-existent. You are going to be injured during a chase, and could get full value from the dead hard. Or, if you aren't injured, you didn't need the dead hard, so it doesn't matter if you got value.
Now, like overcome instadowns can counter it, but instadowns are not reliable. Exposed perks are so heavily undertuned outside of maybe devour (which is unreliable) that you can't really use them, meaning only some killers can get value. Additionally though, if the killer is an insta down killer, and you are injured, you can still use it to get value, unlike overcome which just won't work in those situations.
The other counter to dead hard is that the survivor is in deep wounds state. This is actually one of the reasons i have taken to playing legion lately, because i'm just tired of dealing with dead hard. It is also the reason i think so many survivors hate legion and deathslinger because they hard counter dead hard.
However, more importantly, dead hard is the reason are hard tunnel. If i seem someone unhooking someone, i wil immediately hit the unhooked person right off the hook, then tunnel them. why? Because after i hit them, they are in deep wounds. Meaning they can't dead hard, off the record is not a factor and the only thing i need to worry about is decisive strike, which most survivors don't run anymore. I bet if dead hard weren't in the game, you'd see a lot less tunneling happen in many cases. Because the best counter to dead hard, is just to tunnel the person off the hook.
Additionally, dead hard often hurts the killers who need the most help, and doesn't really affect the ones who don't. How often do you think a God nurse cares about dead hard? Or a blight that hug techs in their sleep? Now how about a trickster? Or Demogorgon? It is night and day how much this hurts the low tier killer vs the top tier killers who really don't care. Yeah, maybe it "counters" nurse, so what, she blinks after her fatigue and hits you a 3rd time 6 seconds later anyway and it didn't really do much.
Lastly, the thing i hate about dead hard is it creates a stupid gameplay loop, where the killer gets within range to hit someone, but then doesn't. It creates this stupid little dance where the killer trys to "wait out" the dead hard, but then the survivor knows they are waiting, but then the killer knows they are waiting so maybe they wait longer, etc. etc. If the killer gets in range of a survivor, they should just be able to hit them. They shouldn't do this stupid little dance. The worst part is, like old decisive strike, you have to assume that every single survivor has it, until they show you that they don't, otherwise you risk wasting a huge amount of time, because the upside of current dead hard is actually stronger than old dead hard, it is just harder to use.
TLDR:
- Dead hard has the least downsides of any exhaustion perk, as in almost none. Meaning it is always available outside of a few rare scenarios.
- Dead hards "counter" is to hard tunnel someone, hit them, get them in deep wounds, then keep tunneling them, creating unhealthy gameplay.
- It creates this stupid "dance" where killers are in range to hit a survivor but don't because they might have dead hard and the "just wait it out bro" meme takes hold.
- Killers have to assume every survivor has it, until they show that they don't, meaning even if you don't equip dead hard, it still gives you value.
- It counters low tier killers harder than high tier killers.
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@Volcz said:
By that I mean, the individual. I'm talking about the people who only or majority of the time, only play this game if they are in an SWF. My friend and I got into a discussion bout this today; I only solo que (I've tried SWF once, the full voice comm experience, calling stuff out, etc - its such a downgrade).
I personally think SWF players, the people who rely on voice comms, knowing their teammates, etc are not all bad but a lot of them are and their egos are inflated.
My friend thinks the way SWF is should just be the norm in the game, ie voice comms and call outs, etc. He does agree a lot of SWFs are cocky and have their egos raised.
Curious, what do you guys think about SWF players? Do you judge them? Do you think twice about them? Sweat when you see them, punish them, or just a normal game (per say)?
Depends on how they are using it, right. Like, am i gonna be upset if someone is just playing the game with their friend(s)? No. But there is an obvious difference between that, and a squad of 4 last second swapping to 4 p100 characters with super stacked items. They are playing the easiest form of DBD possible and generally are the most toxic. If you play well, they harass you for "tunneling" or "camping" or breaking some other unwritten rule. If you play badly, you are a "trash killer, uninstall" and you get teabagged the whole game.
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@Akumakaji said:
Hello everyone.
I have been sitting on over 2.5million BP and played a couple of games yesterday with no reward at all, because I remembered the "new killer 15th February" thing ... but usually there is a PTB to public test the new killer, right?
Soooooo ... did I just whiff and got overexcited? Is tomorrow the "reveal" date and maybe PTB and the real release is just 3 weeks in the future? Dang I think I messed up ^^"
It will go to PTB, and historically every chapter except 1 has been released 3 weeks later, but they usually don't officially state when it will be released after PTB (with the exception of a few, such as wesker).
Generally i keep myself about 1.5 mil right now, and then when we get to the last few days i'll save up my bloodpoints to be the cap.
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@JustWhimsical said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341626#Comment_3341626
Pain Res is just better on Nurse, tbh.
Pain res takes 13.5 seconds of progress off of a gen, and doesn't actually tell you reliably where it was. Eruption will show you the aura for a full 10 seconds. A nurse being able to see the aura of a survivor should basically be a guaranteed hit. The best slowdown in the game, is a downed or hooked survivor.
The top nurse players never actually used starstruck and agitation. They use aura reading perks, because a nurse can down people faster than any slowdown that exists in this game, and having aura reading to guarantee a hit is insane.
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@Mr_K said:
You kick gens?
Not as a nurse. But for 10 seconds of aura reading? Definitely.
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/364134/best-part-about-eruption
I hope you are a troll and i just fell for the bait
you can't be serious
I'm a 2k hour nurse main. I was not "nerfed" when they nerfed her, because i run 3 aura reading perks. Aura reading is extremely powerful on her. Once you get to the point that you land a hit every blink combo, then aura reading will make you down survivors so fast you don't need gen defense. And 10 seconds of aura reading (more with lethal) is insane.
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@RakimSockem said:
Love everything about it.
1. The biggest and most important news of course: Any Means Necessary cooldown removed. No I can reset all the pallets when killers don't break em. I run this as a regular part of my build
2. Eruption had the incapacitated effect removed. They could've left it at 10% instead of 10% of current and I still would've been fine with it because the Incapacitated aspect was the worst part.
3. Haddie cosmetics because it's about time.
4. Map reworks and lighting changes. Love it.
All W's
So W patch because they overnerfed a perk?
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@HugTheHag said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341276#Comment_3341276
It does, but that's at the risk of the slug being picked up, so it's pretty fair. And even without slugging, having an idea of where people are roughly is still very good. That's why BBQ is still very useful despite only being 4 seconds long.
The math doesn't add up. Even if they kept it at 10% total progress, that is 9 seconds of progress. It takes longer than that to hook someone. The survivor's best play, is to just keep slamming the gen while the other one gets hooked. And lets be honest 10% current progress is a complete joke. Killer regression should never be based on current progress, because it is hard for the killer to judge (used to be both sides, but not anymore now that survivors can see gen progress on the HUD). I don't know how much progress the gen that eruption just hit actually had, so i can't know if i should hook, or go slug. Now, if killers all had a way to tell how much progress each gen had at any given point, maybe this would work.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
I think it was actually nerfed to hard. I don’t know how current progress math works. But I think it should have stayed at 10% progress total but removed incapacitated.
A gen is 90 charges. 10% means it knocked off 9 seconds of progress. At 10% current, that means you are barely knocking off 4.5 seconds on a gen that is half complete. They pretty much made this perk useless. They should have kept it at 10% total (and revert the pop nerf too like really?) and made it so they screamed, it blocked the gen for like 10 seconds, and gave them the aura for 10 seconds.
The math for this perk doesn't add up anymore, lets say the gen is really close to being done (eruption doesn't actually show you the progress it gets rid of) then survivor screams and you see their aura, but you just downed someone. So you can either not hook them, slug, and go to the other survivor, or hook them. But if you hook them, the perk basically gave you no value, because it is gonna take you at least 10 seconds (if not longer) to hook them, meaning all it did was erase the progress the survivor would have got while you were hooking them. Very very low value.
Gen kick meta is dead, next up is Pain res/Surge/Pop (for killers who have a high usage power that cant use surge) until that gets nerfed too.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341094#Comment_3341094
This is not the exhaustive list of perk changes, there will be more in other patches. This one we felt it important to address what was happening with Eruption.
Why not just revert the previous buff that was done? This completely makes the perk useless. Next up every killer is going to be running pain resonance. And what happens after that gets nerfed? The problem is that both sides have maybe half a dozen perks that are any good, and if your "plan" is to make those half a dozen useless every 3-4 months, and then buff another half dozen to being meta, that doesn't solve the problem.
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@HugTheHag said:
Honestly not that bad of a nerf. I think they should have kept the 10% of completion instead of current progression, but the aura is neat. Since Eruption functions on downs, it's even incentive not to camp to know for 10 seconds where the people are if they're hit by it.
Definitely did not expect AMN to get a buff, but go it I guess ! Any buff to lesser used perks is appreciated.
I don't think these are the only two perks that will receive changes in the next update, so I'm still looking forward to the Circle of Healing nerf.
Too bad it encourages slugging though. Because you won't have time to pick up the survivor and hook them before the aura reading runs out.
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@Gamall said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/M2B95TJGC8VF/huntressvs4bnps.png
4 cute quick-switchers from default survs p0 into 4 toolboxes + bnps + 2pt + hyperfocus/stake-out etc.. have been taught a good lesson.
4.5 gens done but not enough.
The secret? Tunnel, quick chases and a lot of self control (and maybe a good map for killers as the saloon).
1 time in 100 you succeed, but yes, it is possible, and it is satisfying
@HugTechLover said:
Crazy that they complain about tunneling with 4BNP and meta builds. 😂 That’s actually hilarious.
Job well done friend, I love seeing squads like this fall.
A note for survivor mains who see this, dead dawg is not a great map to try stuff like this on. The gen spread his tiny and the whole map besides main is terrible for chase. Just a tip…
When survivors obviously don't care about your "fun" by bringing stuff like that, why should the killer care about theirs?
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@AetherBytes said:
Starting to feel like there's not even anything next, like we'll hit the date for the next one and BHVR will just go "K, we're done, game over, see ya!"
I know they won't, but it's just been kinda stale, especially with how close it's meant to be. No hints, no gimpses, not even a theme.
@dspaceman20 said:
I agree. Like I feel like we should have received a teaser right now
The anticipation is killing me wondering if it's going to be a licensed or original chapter.
What makes you think they haven't already been doing that?
They have been going on and on about Maurice a lot lately.
Maybe the next killer is the Headless Horseman? Sleepy Hollow? It's old enough to be in the public domain.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339936#Comment_3339936
what exhaustion perk do you want survivors to use? keep in mind that survivors have to prepare to go against the strongest killers such as Blight and weaker nurse. If i have to vs blight a perk like Smash hit or Balance landing is just not going to cut it. 150% m/s for 3 second is pointless when the killer i am going against is moving 230% in his power for 4(5) dashes. DH is most effective choice vs strongest killers. Furthermore, what even be viable version of these other exhaustion perks when going against blight?
Head on could be instant charge up, 5 second stun and silent lockers and I am not sure if head on would be useful vs blight.
Smash hit could increase pallet stuns by 2 seconds and trigger on pallet drops instead of stuns. Would this be remotely useful vs blight? Would be pretty weird meta exhaustion perk to use vs Nurse.
Balance landing is conditional perk that requires elevation. there is no way this perk in isolation can ever be meta because its depends on maps. Maybe if you gave survivors a jump function and the perk triggers by jumping? this perk was only used when it had 100% stagger functionality which was independent from speed boost itself. This is type of perk that might be better off as passive ability that is earned by doing some side objective. maybe you cleanse a totem and the next fall is 100% stagger with no speed boost. I don't think balance landing in modern version of dbd can be counted as exhaustion perk. Its not versatile enough to be one.
Lithe could be that when pressing E during a pallet slide/window vault, you become invulnerable during the window vault/pallet vault(for 0.5 seconds post sliding) then break into sprint burst for 3 seconds. Maybe this would be meta?
Overcome: Probably make it work like Mettle of man when your healthy. this makes instant downs not counter it. this perk would be like reverse dh in the sense that you need to be healthy for it to trigger.
Sprint burst is easily closest perk to DH in term of being meta. Giving Sprint burst an activate button instead of running would easily replace DH in the meta if DH was nerfed because it mirrors old DH for distance that DH used to be.
my guess is that if they ever weakened Dead hard to not be top meta perk, They would likely buff one of these perks into meta exhaustion to replace it.
I could ask you the same thing about eruption.
But, what i really want is for us to either :
- Balance the game around top players
- Balance the game around average players
If we want to balance the game around top players, which i am assuming you do, because you mention blight and nurse, which are a large minority of players, let alone good ones. Then we need to take a look at what top survivors are capable of, and survivors as a whole need some massive nerfs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtENJZ_z0zw&t=1sOr, if you think that the above gameplay is fine, because those survivors are rare. Then we need to balance around the "average player" So lets look at kill rates.
If we are balancing around the "average" player and the devs are looking or a 60% kill rate (which they have stated at some point) that means we need to:
Massively buff:
- Nurse
- Trickster
- Billy
Minor buff:
- Demo
- Doctor
- Trapper
- Blight
- Twins
- Deathslinger
- Huntress
So which is it? Should we balance the game around the top players like you said? Or should we balance around the average player?
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@HugTheHag said:
A bit worried they'll do a 6.1. and nerf popular perks into the ground whether they're OP or not, only for the sake of change, without understanding that if there are only 20 good perks, then they're the only ones that'll come into play.
If there were more good perks, they'd be played more.
Perk changes should come through buffing unused perks rather than overnerfing the most used ones...
This right here. Both sides have about a half dozen perks that are really good, and another half dozen that are decent, while the rest are trash.
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They probably had one on them when they died and the game got confused.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339829#Comment_3339829
Popular Twitch streamer/Youtube content creator Otzdarva (also known as Not Otzdarva, Otz, Papa Otz, etc), in the year of our lord 2018 (I think), formulated the following law
"They whomst burneth a map offering, shalt disconnect post-haste uponst being downed first"
This law is absolute, meaning that the survivor who burnt a map offering will always DC upon being downed first, regardless of map or killer
It's usually because if they burn an offering they are attempting to do something specific with that map, and getting downed immediately means they don't get to do that thing, so they get impatient and leave.
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@Dinan said:
I can loop pretty well and when I do it for like 2 gens or more I get facecamped. Why not switch to a different target instead of hating on me.
I dunno about literal "facecamping" but camping yes, it makes a lot of sense.
Lets say i chase you first, and down you, and as i'm picking you up, 3 gens pop, so i hook you.
- I probably hooked you in an area where there are gens that are still up with no progress, otherwise i would have stopped the nearby survivor from working the gen
- 3 gens just popped, so i know where the survivors "WERE" but not where they are.
- Given that 3 gens popped, i know none of the survivors have anything to "do" so they are likely going to try and come for the unhook.
- i can defend the gens that are still up and the hook by proxy camping.
Camping here is actually the best strategy. Not because "OMG i lost 3 gens i lose, might as well camp" but because i'm defending my gens, i know the survivors are coming for the unhook, and no other gen has any progress so the survivors don't have any gen pressure on me, i have hook pressure on them, in that, they have to come for the unhook, and even if they immediately realized i was camping and hopped on a gen, i could proxy camp to second stage and then pressure the others and then attempt to go for the guy that just got unhooked while they are injured for a quick down and eliminate them from the game.
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@AssortedSorting said:
I used to be a proponent for Dead Hard, its on-demand nature gives players a greater sense of agency, and the distance gained is about that of something like Lithe or Sprint Burst.
While all of that is true, there is one fundamental feature of Dead Hard that the other two Perks lack: It activates at the tail end of a chase commitment by a Killer.
For Example:
Head on needs a 3s build-up to activate and can be baited by the Killer.
Lithe is used as part of the standard loop, and even if it was on demand needs to be used before the Killer gets a hit in on the Tile and needs to use a Vault.
Sprint Burst is used immediately, or 99%'ed to be used in a Loop, but still takes a moment of hesitation and has to be used a decent amount of time or distance away from the Killer so as to not be hit by a Lunge. (And could even be reworked to need a kind of Insidious style staying still to activate as an on-demand feature).
Balanced Landing does add distance, but requires specific map setups, and still allows you to be hit if the Killer is too close.
All of those Exhaustion Perks suffer, and are mostly ineffective, when the Killer is right behind you.
Dead Hard is used when the Killer is right on your butt.
This may seem fine at a surface level, but think for a moment that the game is designed around giving you several options to prevent the Killer from getting that close in the first place. Pallets/Vaults/Mindgames/etc.
Dead Hard is the only Exhaustion Perk that allows you to forgo any of those options and can still work when the Killer is literally swinging at you, and lets you go to more of those defensive options.
I don't know how rework Dead Hard, but it certainly shouldn't be able to be used as a tool to prevent a Swing from occurring, as the point in time that a swing occurs is usually the moment when the Killer has invested the most amount of time in chase, rather than being a preventative measure taken by the Survivor like the rest of the Exhaustion Perks.
The problem is that it has no downside. Every other exhaustion perk has some kind of downside.
- Adrenaline - Only activates in end-game and only activates once, mostly used for the heal more than the sprint burst.
- Balanced Landing - Very limited usage and heavily map dependent. Many maps only have 1 or 2 spots you can consistently use this at.
- Head On - Requires the survivor to jump into the locker and sit there for 3 seconds, can't really be used effectively in a chase without combining it with other perks.
- Lithe - Requires you to fast vault, meaning you can't loop perfectly efficiently when using it. In theory you could fast vault and not need to "waste" it, but if you slow vaulted you would get hit, making it one of the least efficient perks, but outside of dead hard is more on demand than the others.
- Overcome - Only works when going from a healthy state to an injured state. If you are hit while injured it doesn't work.
- Smash Hit - Requires you to land a pallet stun, which is sometimes easier said than done. Additionally, a pallet stun, depending on the pallet, killer and setup, can already be a chase ender anyway, so the value you get on this is much lower.
- Sprint Burst - You have to walk to not accidentally use it, or 99 it. This requires you to play around the sprint burst very very specifically and it isn't available for you on complete demand.
And then we have dead hard, where the "downside" is that you need to be injured, but becoming injured is a natural thing that will happen in the course of a chase. And if you don't get injured and you don't use it, you didn't need it. If yo do get injured, then it is always available to you at that point with no downside.
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@AshInTheTallGrass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3339232#Comment_3339232
Yikes. I don't play many games so I didn't know that. Hopefully, BHVR didn't go that route.
I'm hoping they solve these problems, as i like the idea of this kind of game, it's just i haven't seen one pull it off yet.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338662#Comment_3338662
It still would because someone with high MMR plays with someone not at thier "skill" level and notices that to them how they plays shows thier lower than them so they start griefing them and then harass them after the match.
That already happens.
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@AshInTheTallGrass said:
I am. I'm really hoping it'll be fun, but I sent the trailer to some friends and their reaction was basically cautiously optimistic.
What's your impression? Honestly?
These types of games usually have a problem where either:
A: The monetization makes the building unfun so they can make more money
B: A meta develops for base building that is basically unstoppable or just flat out unfun/time consuming to go against making the game completely boring.
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@Marik1987 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337649#Comment_3337649
Disagree. Fake-Teleports are unique, OG-Freddy was a punchingball for survivors, waking up by failing skillchecks on purpose, sitting on the gen in front of Freddy while he is waiting out the 7sec till he gets the right to basic hit someone XD.
The old freddy DESIGN was better and more in line with what freddy. The mechanics is what needed to be tweaked. What if they did things like, while falling asleep survivors can't work on gens (so during those 7 seconds, they can't just sit there and do the gen in your face) Make it so you have to go to the clocks to wake up (which didn't exist) or have another survivor wake you up, failing skill checks won't work. Make it so sleeping survivors do gens slower (or are hindered) to encourage them to wake themselves up.
There's tons of ways to tweak things, but the point is that the idea of old freddy was better than the current one, even if the numbers and mechanics were bad.
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@sanees said:
Mind games should be encouraged depending on the skill of the player, but just shift w the chase is clearly supposed to last no more than 10 seconds
This right here. What i would like to see, is to increase the amount of loops/pallets in the game (but decrease/remove God loops, they should not exist) and rework bloodlust to no longer be about how long you are chasing the survivor for without a hit, but make it so if you keep walking in the same direction, you gain more speed. This would make shift+w be bad, and make you want to play around loops and pallets instead, making the game more interactive in chase.
Could also do this with a stamina bar, similar to HSH, where survivors can only shift+w for some set amount of time, then they have to walk, but if they vault something, or drop a pallet, or get hit, etc. then this bar is reset. This would encourage them to actually loop instead of just holding shift+w
Then balance the gen speed and killer powers around this. Ideally you'll need nerf/rework some of the more crazy killer powers in chase like nurse, spirit, and knight (yes knight without hold w is pretty strong), and probably need to buff some others that are more macro, like trapper and hag.
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@Bwsted said:
Both sides have an obligation to try to progress the game. 3 genning is fine. ONLY holding the 3 gen is not. The killer's objective is to kill, not saving the gens forever.
See this:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/521124/#Comment_521124
Everyone always quotes this one, but that one was specifically talking about someone intentionally stalling the game out for the purpose of trolling. See (only downing and slugging, and refusing to move). In this 3-gen situation, if the killer downed someone, i have no doubt they would have hooked them.
Read the entire quote:
The 3 gen strat on its own is not bannable, it only become an issue when it's being used to grief instead of win.This sort of thing is an "intent" crime. Why should the killer throw the game away just because the survivors don't want to do their objective?
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336242#Comment_3336242
Because it will end very quickly...hostage situations are when nothing can be done to end it and it can do go on indefinitely.
@PlaysByShady said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336242#Comment_3336242
You literally gave the answer... you'll die in 4 minutes. There's an end.
And this is precisely why this rule is a bit confusing.
For example, if i body block someone in a corner as a killer, the other survivors can do the generators, and end the game. So there is also an end there, yet the body block in a corner is against the rules.
Additionally, wouldn't it make more sense to make these types of hostage holding simply impossible? Why not allow a survivor to walk through a killer (or another survivor) if they are being body blocked, through some sort of detection mechanism? Perhaps if their models collide for 10 seconds, then all the blocked survivor has to do is walk into the killer or survivor for 10 seconds, and then they can pass through them. Being able to walk through a survivor/killer is already a thing that can happen when you get hit, where you lose collision for a bit. So why not use this same logic, and just activate it in this scenario?
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@MB666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/363490/another-look-at-gen-speed-now-that
I still think maps are the problem , not survivors , not gen speeds , like doesnt matter how much you nerf or buff the gens speed that doesnt change the fact that depending which RNG you get on some maps you can easily stomp the survivor or VICEVERSA
but if we are honest most of the maps had a higher change to spawn god setups connected into each others + there is some maps insanely bigger like Red forest were by default without corrup intervention or a killer with high mobility you are forced to let go 1 gen every single time...
as survivor i think nobody likes the weaker tiles that they added to autohaven , it literally makes the map RNG depending which is bad because on those tiles there is no mindgame on them you just wait until they drop the pallet and you secure a free hit...
Problems with DBD IMO:
-Nurse making impossible to balance maps perfectly since she can noclip into stuff and make smaller maps miserable to go against.
-the overall map design: like garden of pain
-RNG can either favor the killer or survivor pretty hardly on some maps.
-still not having an early game mechanic (for the love of god BHVR just make corrup basekit for 16 seconds)
that would help a lot for many maps in this game..walking 1 minute on red forest to just reach to a gen is stupid for m1 killers.
Its not about the maps. it is simply the gen speed to chase ratio. It is actually more expensive, in terms of time, for a killer to injure a single survivor, than it is for that survivor to get healed. And that's not even accounting for the fact that there are 4 survivors, that is just in raw number of seconds.
The reality is, simply holding w, not using pallets, windows, mindgames, perks, dead hard, nothing. A survivor should be able to at minimum, by just holding w, waste 54 seconds of a killer's time. Now when you factor in even a single pallet, which (if it is one the killer has to break) it will add an additional 17 seconds to that time. It simply isn't enough to just win a mindgame, when you can just predrop every pallet and run a killer for 5 gens, and then if they abandon chase, you heal faster than it took for them to earn that hit.
And sure, not every pallet is a god pallet, but all it takes is 1, a decent survivor that can recognize this, and 3 other survivors who actually do gens, to lose 3 gens. And you simply can't abandon the chase, because then you reset the clock, and now that survivor can hop on a gen. You simply do not have the time to spread the pressure in the early game, the first chase is almost always guaranteed to lose 2-3 gens, and then the entire game you are playing this crazy catch up game, where if you make a single mistake, you lose, while the survivors can make several (dead hard) and not bat an eye.
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@scenicpickle said:
i've always had a problem with deadhard thinking it was too easy to use but never looked into the why is it easy to me and after spending literally a minute internalizing it i realized it is in certain contexts and that my problem is it's interactions with certain killer powers, things like nemi zombies and knight's guards because when i see this
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4XF7DO5CTI9L/image.png
the survivors see this
im fine with m1 mind games but i feel certain killer powers like guards should ignore endurance
what do you all think?
is that a reasonable request or am i being unfair and is pressing DH into a guard for free speed balanced
Make it only work on basic attacks.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336582#Comment_3336582
Their complaint was that gens go so fast so they can't wait out dead hard, here we have no slowdowns on a slow killer and a 4K. There is plenty of time, lithe is stronger in most cases anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_4SCwg74PY
I think Scott made this video for like, 95% of the people in this thread, hope it helps.
Scott also made this video where clearly states that build is more important than anything else, and that "yeah, if killers don't bring slowdown, they lose"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StPRuce8SrQAnd here is another from otz, where it is discussed that killers basically have to tunnel in order to win because they simply don't have the time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbvFZnE7j3g -
@FMG15 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336583#Comment_3336583
Just because they are not the sweatiest, most tryhard team doesn't mean a SWF is average. Even top tier SWF will not play like this. We need to balance around all players. You need balance for average, beginners and top tier. This is not a game like Rocket League, this is an asymmetrical horror game so there is not really a competitive nature thus you need to make this game enjoyable for good and bad players.
Great, so based on the fact that BHVR wants average 60% kill rate (assuming 2% margin of error)...
Looks like we need:
MAJOR buffs:
- Nurse
- Trickster
- Hillbilly
- Demogorgon
- Doctor
Minor Buffs:
- Trapper
- Blight
- Twins
- Deathslinger
- Huntress
Minor nerfs:
- Pinhead
- Sadako
- Wesker
And if you disagree, then you don't believe the game should be balanced around average players, you believe the game should be balanced around average SURVIVOR players, but balanced around the top tier KILLER players. Which simply shows that you are extremely biased.
So which is?
Do we:
- Balance the game around average players
- Balance the game around top players
- You are biased
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@FMG15 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335756#Comment_3335756
I never used killrates as an argument. Nurse is (basekit) by far the most powerful killer in the right hands and as you just showed on the top 5% MMR she has a killrate of over 60%. That Nurse that beat the squad was very strong and she had a build specifically made to secure at least 2 kills. It just shows me that if both sides pla at their full potential, the top tier Nurse is going to win. You know exactly why the killrate are not an accurate depiction of her true strength. A god tier Nurse is almost never losing games high killrate or not.
Exactly, so you agree then that we shouldn't balance the game around the "average" player right? I'm responding to this part in your post where you said:
And how often do you go against those teams? Probably never since these survivors did this streak as some sort of an experiment. Nobody is going so tryhard in pubs like Hens winstreak squad.So my question is simple. Do you balance this game around the "average" player, because that is what the vast majority of players are? Or, do you balance the game around top level players like hen, or alf who are able to win 500+ games in a row?
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@Seanzu said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/V6ZL4FHLZFM6/image.png
ya huntress very hard to play without tunneling or slowdowns or anything like that, granted they all had lithe but like, I don't see why dead hard matters so much lmao.
"Ya Huntress is very hard to play without tunneling or slowdowns or anything like that, granted none of them actually used the perk, dead hard, they we are talking about, but i don't see why dead hard matters"
So like, this thread is about dead hard, and you play a game where nobody actually uses it, and win, and somehow that proves that dead hard isn't a problem.
That makes a lot of sense...