Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317556#Comment_3317556
I think you mean Exhaustion?
Wouldn't be surprised if that got removed though.
No what i meant was deep wound. Dead hard "doesn't work" with OTR, because you already have deep wound after getting hit with it on. And the DS clears the deep wound.
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@Firellius said:
Ostensibly, it's OTR: Both are very clearly marked as anti-tunnel perks since they offer protections to a survivor that has been unhooked as long as they don't get/take the opportunity to help their teammates. OTR is basically couched in the same language that DS was, that marked DS as an anti-tunnel perk, so it's reasonable to assume that OTR replaced DS.
And while I think that was the intent, I also think that the result was something else entirely.
First off, one thing I've noticed is that, despite the gen times going up from 80 to 90, a lot of killers still complain that gens are going too fast. I'd say almost more so than before 6.1. I initially wrote it off as shifting standards, but then I saw a response to someone complaining about the gen-regression meta, where someone said something along the lines of
"Suck it up, we've dealt with a DH, DS, UB, BT meta for years"
So I made a half-joking response of 'how nice, survivors coming in with only DH, as long as you don't play like a jerk'.
But that got me thinking about what happened with DS going out and BT becoming partially basekit. UB is basically collateral, since its primary value was in weakening the killer's counterplay to DS, which was to just slug and not pick up. But with those three meta perks out of the picture, that opened up three new slots for survivors to pick perks in.
And I don't think OTR is one of them.
I think it's Prove Thyself and Hyperfocus that took their places.
Which is why the gens feel like they've been going faster. Without anti-tunnel and anti-camp clogging up the survivors' loadouts, they've got space for new perks. And you might think that that would make for more variable gameplay, but then we run into another problem:
Tunnelling and camping still need to be countered, as they're extremely efficient strategies.
So what counter do people gravitate to, now that perk bandaids are a non-viable solution?
'Just do gens'.
Unfortunately, unlike with tunnelling, where a killer can decide to adopt this strategy halfway through the game in order to improve their chances of winning, survivors don't really have that choice. They can't wait for the killer to start tunnelling someone off their first or second hook and -then- decide 'well, time to grab my genrush perks'. Which leads to teams picking and using genrush tactics against killers that don't tunnel.
And unlike DS, those genrush tactics -do- work really well against killers that don't tunnel.
So to summarise, I think that the replacement for DS was intended to be OTR, but it worked out to being 'genrush'. Is that a crazy interpretation?
DS was replaced by DS. People seem to forget that DS removes endurance. So now the new hotness is:
- OTR
- Dead Hard
- DS
- insert whatever
You get unhooked. You take the hit for the unhooker with OTR thats 1 hit. Now the killer will probably tunnel you, thats 2 hits. Then you land DS, then endurance is removed, so you can dead hard, thats 3 hits. Now a 4th to down and get second hook on you.
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@StickyB said:
Now I'm not saying that this is going to be a 100% guarantee that you wont get tunnelled after this but these are the things that'll make me tunnel as a killer (maybe even camp more than I should)
- Taking the hit after being unhooked, ESPECIALLY if your savour isn't injured. You're giving me the choice between someone stage 2+ who I can down in one hit vs someone who could be fresh who I need to down in two hits, it's pretty simple maths. This is probably the number one cause for me tunnelling someone and it's completely preventable on the survivors side. DONT TAKE THE HIT.
- Bringing me to an unfavourable map, this one might sound a bit entitled but I'm more likely to sweat and not even give a hatch if I see someone bring me to Ormand or Erie. Those maps are too large at the moment and makes pressuring gens too hard when they're on the other side of the map. And the only other way to pressure gens without being there, it pressuring a kill. Whether that means people have to come take hits so it's not a 1v3 or or they need 2 people for the unhook, sometimes it's simply to viable to leave the unhooked person if it means I'm pulling multiple people off of gens. However, if I get taken to these maps by random, I'll probs just play for fun since I'm most likely not getting a 4k.
- Running towards gens, so many times will I see someone unhooked and they'll beeline it towards the gens instead of staying away and running off with the person who unhooked them, if I can down you in my gens, I will take it as that's free pressure.
- If you're in comms, and you know the last 1-2 gens are going to pop, don't pop them. This will make me think I have more time then I do and is a very good strategy to give yourself some breathing room. Save then pop the gens. I'm not gonna be camping if I think I have 4 gens remaining and I can defend a couple.
I think this is about it, what makes you tunnel more or less?
TLDR:
- Don't take BT hit
- Don't bring map offerings
- Stay away from the 3 gen
- Don't activate endgame too quickly
The main thing with tunneling is that survivors often make it the most viable way of playing. Here is scenario i got into once that describes basically exactly what happens when i "tunnel" and why i chose to do so and why it was the most effective thing for me to do at the time.
I was playing autohaven one time and hooked a survivor on a hook in the corner of the map in a dead zone. Then turned around and saw another survivor in the distance. This survivor immediately started running away toward a part of the map that had no generators. I started chasing them, before the hooked survivor was out of my terror radius they were unhooked.
Now. i took a split second to look at the landscape. The guy i was chasing after was healthy, and hadn't been hooked yet. He was running to a part of the map with no generators left, and he was running to the fun bus with the god window to the right. To our left, was an LT wall and a generator that was still up (2 gens left). I decided to turn around and see what the unhooked survivor was doing. And i see that they are being healed under the hook in that deadzone. So obviously i turned around and went after them, hit them quickly and they DCed before i could hook them. At that point the game was basically over and i ended up winning. Then at the end game screen the survivor who ran to the fun bus talked about how i'm a "trash tunneler"
The reality is though, those survivors caused me to tunnel because at that point, tunneling was the most effective thing for me to do in that moment.
- The unhooked survivor was still in range of my terror radius
- They were injured
- They had no anti-tunnel perks
- They were in a deadzone
- They were being healed right under the hook.
- The other option for me to chase was running to the strongest structure on the entire map where there were no generators left
Had the unhooked waited an extra 5 seconds, and the second survivor i started chasing ran to the LT wall near the generator instead of the fun bus, i probably would have kept chasing them instead. They could have run to the LT wall, mindgamed, maybe won, or maybe got hit, then ran to the fun bus to extend the chase. By then the hooked survivor would have been healed and it would have been the bad play to try and go tunnel.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316856#Comment_3316856
Pretty sure it's called not participating in normal gameplay.
It's entirely possible to hold a 3-gen without trying to kill any Survivors until the server closes.
Here. Looks like you needed to quit circa 2019
Notice the difference: "Sitting there with doctor and just shocking generators" that is entirely different than patrolling a 3 gen and not chasing survivors if they run to strong structures.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316887#Comment_3316887
Dragging the game out to the hard cap of 1 hour (formerly 2 hours) should really not count as "prevent the survivors from escaping".
But I will stop discussing with you. You just dont want to understand it that a Killer who is not trying to go for Kills is holding the game hostage.
And honestly, I have better things to do than talking to a wall.
We are talking about 2 different things. The OP is complaining about "3 genning" and you are talking about actively intentionally trying to make the game last the hard cap. Those are 2 different things.
I also like the part where i presented evidence of my point, and you completely ignore it and then say "i will stop discussing" How about presenting some evidence from your side? Or trying to counter my evidence with different evidence? If not then i think we know who is right here.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316871#Comment_3316871
But at some point you HAVE to advance the game as Killer. If the Survivors are not holding it hostage by hiding, the Killer is holding it hostage by not trying to kill them.
Otherwise, we can start saying that Survivors can hide when there is a strong 3-Gen. In the end, their goal is to survive, and they will most likely die when they try to repair Gens in a 3-Gen.
But everyone knows that this would be a stupid way of thinking. But if the Killer is doing the same, it is completely justified, eh?
In the wiki, for the killer role it states:
The Killers have been tasked by The Entity to hunt down and sacrifice every Survivor before they can escape.
In order to achieve this objective, a Killer should do the following:
- Patrol the area and find Survivors.
- Chase, injure and catch Survivors before they escape.
- Carry Survivors to a sacrificial Hook and hang them there for The Entity to consume.
Meanwhile, Survivors will be attempting to repair five Generators in order to power the 2 Exit Gates and make their escape. Killers should do everything in their power to stop them.
Patrolling is listed first in the list, and it clearly states the survivors will be attempting to repair the generators and the killer should "DO EVERYTHING IN THEIR POWER TO STOP THEM"
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316871#Comment_3316871
But at some point you HAVE to advance the game as Killer. If the Survivors are not holding it hostage by hiding, the Killer is holding it hostage by not trying to kill them.
Otherwise, we can start saying that Survivors can hide when there is a strong 3-Gen. In the end, their goal is to survive, and they will most likely die when they try to repair Gens in a 3-Gen.
But everyone knows that this would be a stupid way of thinking. But if the Killer is doing the same, it is completely justified, eh?
The goal of the survivors is to escape. The goal of the killers is to prevent the survivors from escaping. If survivors are actively not trying to repair gens, they are not progressing the game. If the killer is actively trying to prevent the survivors from escaping, they are progressing the game.
The point is. In a 3-gen scenario, if the killer leaves the 3-gen, they lose. Why should the killer be expected to throw away the game any more than the survivors?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316856#Comment_3316856
This was done in other Therads were you also participated. The example was a Doctor who did not do any effort to go for Kills.
And you can patrol Generators. But you cannot just stop doing your Objective to protect your 3-Gen without any intention of getting Kills or Downs.
That was talking about a very specific circumstance where the player was specifically trolling by slugging, using doctor to constantly make people madness 3 with CDR on it and never actually hooking. There is a different between patrolling your 3 gen and only chasing survivors in moments where it makes sense, and actively trying to make the game as miserable as possible.
The point i'm making is. If i'm patrolling my 3 gen, and every time a survivor tries to get me away from it, they run to the opposite end of the map toward the strongest structures and/or where i don't have a pallet deadzone, chasing them would literally cost me the game. So it makes 0 sense for me to chase them.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316809#Comment_3316809
Pretty sure they confirmed that it IS considered holding the game hostage, so....
Unless you can provide some kind of evidence for that, there is no way that patrolling generators is against the rules. And if that is the case, i'll quit the game today, because that would be completely ridiculous.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316833#Comment_3316833
Imo no amount of bribery or limitations would induce most killers, including me, to willing to go against with SWF when there's the option to vs. guaranteed just solos.
Sounds like a fundamental problem with the game, if one of the roles wants to completely avoid a style of play doesn't it?
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316811#Comment_3316811
Won't work. I doubt they'd want to split the somewhat shrinking playerbase, but more importantly all killers would just stomp the solos, and SWF would get no lobbies. No basekit perks would change that.
Obviously other things could be done. But the point i'm making is that the only way to properly balance the game is to split them up, and then have literal balance changes based on the queue you are in. Plenty of games have different rule sets for example for ranked vs casual play. For example, CS:GO casual queue gives you extra armor and more money each round, whereas the ranked queue is a lot more strict with the money and you have to buy armor.
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@WarzMyth said:
So, I main Pyramid Head and every game i get gen rushed and its really starting to ######### with me. my current build is dead man's, pain res, lethal, and bbq. what should i change with my build that REALLY works with pyramid head?
Problem is that you are using hook perks on a killer whose power partially makes hook perks useless. You should run a build that either:
- Gives passive gen slowdown
- Gives stronger chase
- Gives gen-kick slowdown.
- Endgame build
So, something like:
Passive Slowdown:
- Deadlock
- Hex: Undying
- Hex: Ruin
- Hex: Pentimento
Strong Chase:
- Lethal Pursuer
- I'm all Ears
- Anything
- Anything
Gen-Kick:
- Eruption
- Call of Brine
- Nowhere to Hide
- Anything (i like brutal strength)
something like that.
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@Dionysus42 said:
What would you like to see? Personally I think an exhaustion effect that lasts until the next health state loss could be interesting, it wouldn't punish being hit multiple times but would be a big negative that can't be ignored without just removing survivors from the game for 30 seconds.
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316756#Comment_3316756
This, but not entity block. Right now, it makes it so you can't do anything when you are hit by it. What it needs is to be changed to this:
Performing the Damage Generator action on a generator applies Eruption:
- Highlights all affected generators in yellow.
- The next time a survivor enters the dying state by any mean, all affected Generators explode, but do not start regressing, removing the highlighted aura. Eruption applies an immediate -10% progression penalty.
- Any survivor repairing a generator when it explodes screams.
- Any affected generator is highlighted in (insert color here) to the survivors (and the killer). Generators that are affected are repaired at a 30/40/50% (perk tiers) slower rate until eruption's cooldown is finished.
- 30 second cooldown.
This makes it so the gen won't regress, all it does is apply a penalty, and it makes it so they are repaired slower. This means survivors could go to a different gen or heal someone, or go do literally anything else, or, if they want, they can continue repairing that gen for a 50% penalty. Additionally they will see the aura of the affected gens, so they can properly plan for and see the 3-gen the killer is building toward. In return, the duration is increased a bit, and the killer gets to see which gens were affected so they can see which gens have slower progress for the next 30 seconds.
Actually i just thought of another idea, may or may not be better, but at least unique:
Performing the Damage Generator action on a generator applies Eruption:
- Highlights all affected generators in yellow.
- The next time a survivor enters the dying state by any mean, all affected Generators explode and are set on fire, removing the highlighted aura. Eruption applies an immediate -10% progression penalty and immediately start regressing.
- Any survivor repairing a generator when it explodes screams and applies the incapacitated effect for 10 seconds.
- Generators that are on fire are unable to be repaired and regress 100/150/200% faster (.5 charges per second) (perk tiers).
- Generators that are on fire have a (insert color here) aura shown to survivors. Survivors can perform an "extinguish" action on them for 5 seconds to remove the fire.
- 30 second cooldown.
This makes it so the survivor is incapacitated for a short time, just enough to keep them off the gen for a bit, and give the killer a little time to get to the gen to prevent them from immediately removing the fire on a gen, but it doesn't allow them to basically make the survivor completely useless. It also shows the aura to the survivors so they know which gens are on fire and that they need to put out to start repairing again.
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@Mew said:
entity block or give a speed penalty for x amount of seconds
This, but not entity block. Right now, it makes it so you can't do anything when you are hit by it. What it needs is to be changed to this:
Performing the Damage Generator action on a generator applies Eruption:
- Highlights all affected generators in yellow.
- The next time a survivor enters the dying state by any mean, all affected Generators explode, but do not start regressing, removing the highlighted aura. Eruption applies an immediate -10% progression penalty.
- Any survivor repairing a generator when it explodes screams.
- Any affected generator is highlighted in (insert color here) to the survivors (and the killer). Generators that are affected are repaired at a 30/40/50% (perk tiers) slower rate until eruption's cooldown is finished.
- 30 second cooldown.
This makes it so the gen won't regress, all it does is apply a penalty, and it makes it so they are repaired slower. This means survivors could go to a different gen or heal someone, or go do literally anything else, or, if they want, they can continue repairing that gen for a 50% penalty. Additionally they will see the aura of the affected gens, so they can properly plan for and see the 3-gen the killer is building toward. In return, the duration is increased a bit, and the killer gets to see which gens were affected so they can see which gens have slower progress for the next 30 seconds.
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@TigerSnake said:
Any decent slowdown hurts solo que. Eliminating 3 gens or the perks that make defending them so good won’t magically make solo que any better.
The problem is coordination. What they really should do is split out solo queue from SWF and balance the 2 modes differently. in solo queue, survivors get basekit kindred and have mapwide bond, and blindness works differently on them. And then in SWF mode, they can do something to buff killers. Then give bloodpoint bonuses for playing in w/e queue they want to prioritize.
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@StarLost said:
If he's camping a 3gen from the start, making no effort to chase or anything and just stalling the game out (Peanits gave the example of a Doctor who just shocks folks off gens) - that's a hostage situation, and worth reporting.
Because yeah, it sucks.
The problem is that:
A. Defending a 3gen is often one of the few routes to victory a killer has against a nasty SWF.
B. It's hard to know if you're against an SWF at the start.
C. By the time you've realized they aren't, it's too late - because now if you abandon that 3gen, you lose.
Sadly, this is a strategy that really requires coordination to beat. Potential Energy is the best anti 3gen perk in the game, closely followed by Deja Vu, but both really need a team behind them. But...this game cannot be balanced around solo players.
No it's not. Patrolling the gens is not bannable. You sound like the killers who think "looping" is an exploit.
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@pizzaduffyhp90 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/S3BDARRD3WIH/sadako.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UFBSU3EUXZOX/saw.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OB1EE6HFBJR2/trapper.jpg
While I agree yes it's definitely more of a challenge to win with these killers considering certain maps and very good cordinated teams can make it very hard it's still possible to win with these killers.
Now do it against this team:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtENJZ_z0zw&t=1s -
@notclaudette said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3314323#Comment_3314323
on some level its a risk reward perk, because you need to lose a health state. counts as a drawback
You have the backwards. Dead hard (in theory) has the drawback of being injured, when in reality it's not a drawback, because naturally it will happen in the game.
Overcome's drawback is that it does not work while injured. You must be healthy, then hit, in order for it to activate.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312160#Comment_3312160
Refusing to participate and preventing the game from progressing are literally against the game's rules. They are nuanced to separate legitimate and illegitimate cases, but the devs and community manager have chimed in on this multiple times across multiple topics. That said, this is similar to 3 gen defending in that avoiding being found is considered different from continuously doing nothing and hiding for extended periods of time, which is why people need to be less hyperbolic when discussing it in any incarnation.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312162#Comment_3312162
You die if the server shuts down, just like you die if the EGC ends. You have to make at least some effort to continue the game if you are actually attempting your goal to survive. Again, this is where the nuance in trying to outlast a 3rd survivor ranges from legitimate to illegitimate: If the amount of time involved with zero interaction is excessive, both survivors are guilty. With the solo indicators being added this excuse will become even weaker, as you will have a lot more information on what your teammate is doing. If you see they are in chase and still refuse to work on gens for example, you are not attempting your objective.
It would be better if the game simply made it impossible to do that. Why is body blocking (like the actual abusive kind) still a thing? Why can survivors hide on red forest for 30 minutes without touching a gen? Why not make it so if you body block someone for say, 15 seconds, they lose collision so they can walk through you? Why not make it so if survivors don't progress the game after x amount of minutes, that they just start getting crows?
Because right now, if requires me to record a video, then report them out of the game, then hope that something actually gets done, but it doesn't fix the problem for me when i am experiencing it. Better to just make it not possible, then to make it something you punish people for.
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@StarLost said:
Not going off power or anything, just in terms of how well they are put together, how much fun they are to play/face etc.
I'd say:
- Dredge. Nightfall can be a little annoying on Midwich, but aside from this, fantastic addons, great mobility and a wonderfully deep toolkit with a lot of unique counterplay. That snowman skin might actually get me maining him. Never sad to see him either.
- Wesker. Gold standard for how to make a fair but powerful killer. Tons of fun to play and play against. Plus, his chase music is a banger.
- Plague. She can be a bit volatile, but she can also turn a 4o into a 4k faster than almost any killer on the roster. Fun, creative addons and just feels good to use.
- Artist. If her addons were a bit more interesting, she'd be my main and probably #1 on this list. I know some folks don't like her, but I've never understood it. Such a creative kit and I'm never sad to be playing her. Her new skin also helps.
- I was tempted to say 'Slinger', but he's just a touch on the clunky side. Then I almost said 'Blight' but stopped taking my crazy pills. So I'll give this one to Demogorgon - he needs some love, as the game sort of left him behind, but his kit is wonderful, he has some awesome addons (and some terrible ones) and I'm struggling on him these days, but still a lot of fun.
- Wesker
- Old billy (remove overheat mechanic FFS)
- Pinhead
- Pre-nerf freddy
- Blight
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@Raccoon said:
It doesn't really impact my own Survivor games, but anecdotal experience aside, I think knocking the Incapacitated tiers down to 8/10/12s would be fair.
What do YOU think?
>:3
It needs a rework, like so much in this game, the perk is too strong against solos, but too weak against SWF. It has the same problem old ruin did with the skill checks.
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@Pulsar said:
So at the theoretical highest level of play (which isn't consistent due to the MMR not working that way), you need to play sweaty against other sweaty people.
The fundamental problem isn't that you have to play sweaty against sweaty people. The fundamental problem is that, for both sides, the most optimal way to play the game is also the least fun for the other side. Now imagine that the most optimal way to win the game, was to do the thing that is the most fun. The game would be in a much healthier state then.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312208#Comment_3312208
Starstruck isn't so much of an issue either. Maybe against beginners or survivors trying to play aggressively and to body block but that's all. Decent survivors do not stick around.
Also, the build I've put together to try the PTB only made of perks in your last list. ^_^
Exactly my point. Personally, i'm a nurse main with 2.5k hours and this "nerf" doesn't affect me in the slightest. I don't use range addons, nor basic attack perks. My build tends to be:
Cooldown reduction addons/Fatigue duration reduction (depending on the kind of team i think i'm up against)
- BBQ
- Scourge Floods of Rage
- Lethal Pursuer
- Scourge Pain res
General gist is, i get a down super quick due to lethal, BBQ shows me where to go next, floods of rage generally prevents the survivor from hiding when i get there, and i just chain downs. Pain res isn't really even needed but it's just the most optimal gen regression for the other 3 perks.
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@Vagab0ndCat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309061#Comment_3309061
"But the fix to it is not to incentivize killers to do other things, or to disincentivize tunneling"
You are a dangerous person, its a good thing you have actually nothing to do with the balance of the game, please keep your "brilliant" balance ideas inside that rampaging imagination of yours, unless of course you want to be running around the map, doing gens and looping your fellow teammates, without a killer inside the game, maybe thats the fix you people wanted all along.
I'm a killer main, and i think survivors are overpowered. But solo queue needs help, and i want the game to be healthy. Better to fix camping and tunneling and then balance the game such that you don't have to do those things anymore. If the game requires you (either side) to play like an ######### to win, then the game isn't in a healthy state.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312200#Comment_3312200
And then DH can add another 20s if it's not baited out somehow. Wonder how overcome compares with the actual numbers, though?
Survivor post hit movement speed: 6.0 m/s so overcome would add 2 seconds of that, meaning an extra 12 meters of distance to cover. Which amounts to 20 seconds.
Dead hard adds the same numbers as the second hit, which would be another 15 seconds. The difference being that dead hard can work while injured, but overcome DOES NOT work while injured. So overcome technically adds more time, but dead hard is more reliable.
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@drsoontm said:
How many perks will become useless now?
Correct,
This is why this "nerf" is going to do the opposite of what they want. All that happens now is nurse takes 4 gen regression perks and you'll hate her even more, because there isn't any other good perks to get. Unlike killers like demogorgon, it is effectively IMPOSSIBLE for nurse to land a non-blink hit because she moves slower than survivors.
The proper nerf this whole time wasn't even that exposed effects were a problem, it was simply starstruck. The rest of the exposed perks have heavy conditions to get them to activate (NOED was already nerfed heavily, haunted ground has a 1 time use and a time limit, dragons grip is terrible, devour requires several hooks). It was simply starstruck.
So what they should have done was either:
A) Give the nurse a tiny 8 meter (or even less) terror radius, and give her a 40 meter lullaby.
B) The nurse doesn't have a terror radius while carrying a survivor.
Like, let's take a look at all the perks that don't require a basic attack to activate:
- Bitter Murmur
- Claustrophobia
- Deerstalker
- Distressing
- Fearmonger
- Hex: Thrill of the Hunt
- Insidious
- Iron Grasp
- Scourge Hook: Monstrous shrine
- Shattered Hope
- Spies from the Shadows
- Whispers
- Unnerving Presence
- Brutal Strength
- Agitation
- Predator
- Blookhound
- Shadowbourn
- Enduring
- Lightborn
- Tinkerer
- Stridor
- Thanatophobia
- Nurse's Calling
- STBFL
- PWYF
- Dying Light
- Hex: Third Seal
- Hex: Ruin
- Overwhelming Presence
- Monitor and Abuse
- Beast of Prey
- Territorial Imperative
- Hex: Huntress Lullby
- Knockout
- BBQ
- Fire up
- Remember Me
- Bloodwarden
- Hangman's Trick
- Surveillance
- Bamboozle
- Coulrophobia
- Pop goes the weasel
- Spirit Fury
- Discordance
- Mad grit
- Iron Maiden
- Corrupt Intervention
- Infectious Fright
- Dark Devotion
- I'm all ears
- Thrilling Tremors
- Furtive Chase
- Zanshin Tactics
- Blood Echo
- Nemesis
- Gearhead
- Dead man's Switch
- Hex: Retribution
- Forced Penance
- Trail of Torment
- Deathbound
- Hex: Blood Favor
- Hex: Undying
- Hoarder
- Oppression
- Coup de Grace
- Hex: Crowd Control
- No Way Out
- Lethal Pursuer
- Hysteria
- Eruption
- Deadlock
- HeX: Plaything
- Scourge Hook: GOP
- Grim Embrace
- Scourge hook: Pain Res
- Hex: Pentimento
- Scourge Hook: FOR
- Call of Brine
- Merciless Storm
- Dissolution
- Darkness Revealed
- Septic Touch
- Superior Anatomy
- Awakened awareness
- Terminus
- Nowhere to Hide
- Hex: Face the darkness
- Hubris
Seems like a lot of perks right? Well, now remove the useless ones (you know the ones) and the fact that a large majority of them are usless on nurse (bamboozle?) because of her power, and you are left with:
- Bitter Murmur
- Whispers
- Lightborn
- Tinkerer
- Thanatophobia
- Nurse's Calling
- Hex: Ruin
- BBQ
- Surveillance
- Discordance
- Corrupt Intervention
- Infectious Fright
- I'm all ears
- Thrilling Tremors
- Dead man's Switch
- Hex: Undying
- No Way Out
- Lethal Pursuer
- Eruption
- Deadlock
- Hex: Plaything
- Scourge hook: Pain Res
- Hex: Pentimento
- Scourge Hook: FOR
- Call of Brine
- Merciless Storm
- Terminus
- Nowhere to Hide
And those are just the usable ones. Now let's look at the ones that are actually like "Really" good, top tier perks:
- BBQ
- Discordance
- Corrupt Intervention
- Infectious Fright
- Thrilling Tremors
- Dead man's Switch
- No Way Out
- Lethal Pursuer
- Eruption
- Deadlock
- Hex: Plaything
- Scourge hook: Pain Res
- Hex: Pentimento
- Scourge Hook: FOR
- Call of Brine
- Nowhere to Hide
Notice something about them? Nurse is basically going to run the same 3-4 perks every game now, because there really isn't any other choices left.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310075#Comment_3310075
Hooked first time, 1st hook count him. Unhooked and tunneled (1)
Hooked 3 more times, count on teammates. Unhooked and tunneled (1 + 3 = 4)
Hooked 5th time, 2nd hook count on him. Unhooked and tunneled (4 + 1 = 5)
Hooked 6th time, 3rd hook count on him, Dead.
There is 5, not 6
You said 56sec W.
Survivor will make 224m.
Which map has 224m straight line.
Dont killers know how to take flanking path?
Dont killers not using power to speed up?
Did you count 56sec that Killer attack when being right behind survivor or already count their 6m lung distance?
Tunneler still tunneling as long as going to the injured unhooked survivor is still a weaker option than other 3 healthy survivors (as I said, go back to unhooked 3 more times is still better than going for 3 healthy teammates).
Thing is, its not about punishing tunneler, its about the fun of tunneled one. Just W 5 more times, even if the map is 300m length that allow you to W for 56sec, isnt fun.
Your math is way wrong though. Let's do the math together.
Some data:
Survivor movement speed: 4.0 m/s
Survivor post hit movement speed duration: 1.8 seconds
Survivor post hit movement speed: 6.0 m/s
Killer movement speed: 4.6 m/s
Killer movement speed while carrying survivor: 3.68 m/s
Killer Terror Radius: 32 meters
Killer hit cooldown: 2.7 seconds
Killer pick up speed: 3 seconds
Killer hook speed: 1.5 seconds
Generator repair speeds: 90 seconds
Average distance to hook: 12 meters
Average human response time: 273 ms (https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime)
Average map size: 9850 square meters (~99.25x99.25 meters for a square)
So, let's assume killers and survivors all spawn at opposite ends of the map. The survivors spend the first 20 seconds looking for a generator and the killer spends the first 20 seconds running to the opposite end of the map. With a killer having a 32 meter terror radius, and taking into account movement speeds and human reaction time. if we take the human reaction time and 6x it to account for figuring out the direction the killer is coming from and making sure you can run the opposite direction, the survivor will spot the killer in 1638 ms. To make math simpler let's round it up to 2 second. during this time the killer gets 9.2 meters closer. So now the killer is 22.8 meters away. During this time the survivor runs in the exact opposite direction of the killer.
Remember, no powers, no pallets, no windows, just a straight line. In order for the killer to catch up to the 5 meters (lunge is 6 meters but taking into account human reactions and lag and spinning and such, we say 5) required for lunge distance the killer needs to move 17.8 meters to close the gap. The difference in movement speed between them is .6, this means the killer closes the 17.8 meter gap in 29.66 seconds. The killer then lands a hit.
The survivor then runs in a straight line and the killer is unable to move much for 2.7 seconds. During 1.8 of those seconds the survivor is moving at 6 m/s and for 4 m/s for .9 seconds. This means the survivor gets 14.4 meters way. The killer now has to close a gap of 9 meters for a lunge. It takes the killer 15 seconds to catch up to the survivor and land another hit.
The killer now picks the survivor up taking 5.7 seconds (3 seconds for picking up, and 2.7 seconds for attack cooldown), and they walk to the nearest hook about 12 meters away. This takes 3.25 seconds, the hooking action takes 1.5 seconds.
The time to find this survivor, hit them once, catch up, hit them again, pick them up walk to a hook and hook them took: 29.66 + 15 + 5.7 + 3.25 + 1.5 = 55.11 seconds. This would mean the killer would likely lose 2 gens in the first chase. (just barely reaching the 3rd survivor before it finishes).
It's not about the survivor going 200 meters. You need to factor in survivor movement speed is 4.0 m/s and killer is 4.6 m/s. That means every second the killer gains .6 meters of distance, and they need to get to 6 meters to lunge. This means that a lead of 20 meters doesn't mean the survivor is downed in 4 seconds, it means the survivor is downed in 23.3 seconds. People highly overestimate how fast killers move in relation to survivors. And "Looping" allows you to run a straight line without actually running a straight line. So all you need is a decent sized structure that can't be mind gamed and you get your baseline of 55 seconds of time wasted.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310075#Comment_3310075
Hooked first time, 1st hook count him. Unhooked and tunneled (1)
Hooked 3 more times, count on teammates. Unhooked and tunneled (1 + 3 = 4)
Hooked 5th time, 2nd hook count on him. Unhooked and tunneled (4 + 1 = 5)
Hooked 6th time, 3rd hook count on him, Dead.
There is 5, not 6
You said 56sec W.
Survivor will make 224m.
Which map has 224m straight line.
Dont killers know how to take flanking path?
Dont killers not using power to speed up?
Did you count 56sec that Killer attack when being right behind survivor or already count their 6m lung distance?
Tunneler still tunneling as long as going to the injured unhooked survivor is still a weaker option than other 3 healthy survivors (as I said, go back to unhooked 3 more times is still better than going for 3 healthy teammates).
Thing is, its not about punishing tunneler, its about the fun of tunneled one. Just W 5 more times, even if the map is 300m length that allow you to W for 56sec, isnt fun.
Its 6 hooks to eliminate them from the game.
4 hooks to get through shared team hook, 1 hook to get second state, 1 hook to kill them. 6 hooks to eliminate the survivor.
You are slightly incorrect about the straight line aspect, that number is off as well, but correct about the concept. Now factor in perks, and pallets, and windows, and looping, and dead hard, and every other tool survivors have. Now factor in killer power.
The point i'm saying is, even the worst survivor can hold shift + w, and waste at least 56 seconds of the killers time to (get hit twice, get picked up, walked to a hook, and hooked) 6 times. At minimum, if a survivor can't last longer than 35 seconds in a chase, they are doing something really wrong.
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@Halloulle said:
DH is everywhere - and that is boring. But it's easy to see why. Arguably, almost all other exhaustion perks lack severely in versatility and the "getting value" department. So regardless of how boring DH is, there's kinda no competition.
So, are there any ideas out there to create some competition for DH?
[To anyone who feels compelled to say "bruh, just nerf dh until no one uses it anymore" --- or something that amounts to that outcome: sure, nerfing sth to the ground is one option. But I'm fairly sure at that point a significant amount of people would rather not run any exhaustion perk. That's neither particularly fun, nor does reducing the pool of viable perks help with diversifying builds.]
I always thought the proper nerf to dead hard was to make it do what overcome does now. The problem is that, every exhaustion perk has some kind of downside, with the exception of Dead hard. Let's look at all the current ones and their weaknesses:
Adrenaline - Only activates 1 time, and you can't control when it activates, mostly the heal is what it is used for
Balanced Landing - Can only be used in very specific parts of the map, and sometimes in only 1 or 2 places.
Dead Hard - Has literally no downside, being injured isn't a downside since it naturally happens in a chase
Head on - Have to hide in a locker to activate
Lithe - Have to fast vault something. Meaning you can't fast vault something and NOT have it activate, so you generally can't use it "optimally"
Overcome - Can't be used while injured, and only activates on being hit.
Smash Hit - Requires you to stun the killer, often easier said than done
Sprint Burst - Requires you to walk around or to 99 it, making it so you can't always use it exactly when you want.
Dead hard is the only one that has 0 downside or requirements to it's activation that put you at some disadvantage. It is just there, it just exists all the time. Additionally, it is the only exhaustion perk, that the killer can't see activate, then make a long term decision over. If i see a survivor sprint burst away, i can just give up the chase often enough, but with dead hard, it happens after i have already dedicated a large amount of time to a chase. The others that work like that, like smash hit or overcome, at least i gained something from it. I injured the survivor, or i made them use a pallet. But with dead hard, it just exists.
As for brainstorming other ideas, honestly i can't think of any other conditions you could do, unless we started adding "exhaustion" perks that weren't speed boosts. Maybe if they added more "head on" style exhaustion perks.
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@Krazzik said:
Finally got the nurse nerf we deserved <3
I am a nurse main with 2.5k hours, this literally does not affect me in any bit. This is actually not the correct way to nerf her. The changes basically amount to:
- Blink is a special attack
- Range addons gone (and others changed TBD)
- Sound queue.
The sound queue does nothing, because bad players are still bad, and good players already know when her blink is ready. The range addons were already nerfed and never were her strongest addons. Her strongest addons are her recharge ones, and, depending on the type of team you are going against, her fatigue reduction addons.
Making blinks special attacks just removes the "exposed" style play. All that means is that instead of nurses using perks that help her in a chase and to down quickly, now she just runs 4 slowdown perks. Additionally, you just made Jolt, Sloppy, and various other perks that she might have taken instead completely useless, so now she basically is always going to run 4 slowdown perks because why would you run anything else? So great, now god nurses will end the game in 5 minutes instead of 3. All you did was make the games last a bit longer.
What nurse needs is a complete rework, i'll probably post my suggestion of it later, but she needs a complete rework. These "nerfs" don't really fix the fundamental problems with her.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309061#Comment_3309061
It doesnt work. It will be always better to tunnel an injured from off hooked survivor through 4 hooks, than chasing other 3 healthy survivors.
You underestimate how long it actually takes to do that. Imagine if hook states were shared. Downing a survivor who does nothing but hold shift + w takes 56 seconds (seriously do the math). Then they get hooked, then repeat that 6 times before they are out of the match. This is a total of 56 * 6 seconds. Then factor in that, if the killer is tunneling, just don't unhook them, if they have to go through 6 hook states to die, that takes a full 6 minutes. You are easily going to finish 5 gens and do the gates before they even hit the last hook state.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I largely agree with Scott's points here. A mechanical solution to tunneling is bound to create more problems than it solves. And tunneling does create a false feedback loop for killers who rely on it. Killer is nowhere near difficult enough to warrant hard tunneling every game, unless I happen to exist on the same magical server that Scott does.
My opinion: tunneling is a matchmaking issue at its core. It's risky in a well-made match. You stand to lose 4 gens minimum tunneling players of equal skill, especially at a high level. The problem is that this game rarely makes a balanced match. There are almost always 1 or 2 extremely weak links relative to the killer. They'll go down 3 times in the span of 1 or 2 gens. Barring tile RNG, that's a matchmaking issue, not a tunneling mechanic issue. They're not having good chases or their teammates are doing nothing, which again points to matchmaking.
He goes on to talk about overly sweaty playstyles in public matches. I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but again, I feel like it's a matchmaking issue. I retired from comp over a year ago but I would love to play against those 4 man comp squads instead of sleepwalking through usual matches. But I get rounded down to the soft cap, the comp squad is rounded down to the soft cap, and we both get relative babies in our games. This isn't to say I sweat like it's a tourney in pubs, but there's zero reason to even make some of these matches. What enjoyment is a 500 hr survivor going to have against a 4k hr comp player, and vice versa? They don't want anyone to wait for a game, and the quality of matches suffers a lot.
I don't think the sweat will ever really go away. That doesn't seem realistic with a playerbase of this scale. It can be managed a bit through matchmaking or some quasi-rank system where SR was added and also used. But a lot of people just like winning and they don't care how.
(As an aside: scrims absolutely suck to set up. A lot of times it takes 20+ minutes to work through the language barrier and get the lobby to actually load everyone in. And then the survivors immediately quit because they're shocked about 220+ ping even though you clearly said you were NA and they're RU)
I disagree, there are plenty of solutions that can actually make tunneling impossible. They just need to do it.
Tunneling is effective because it removes someone from the game, so make that simply impossible. What if survivors 1st hook state was shared as a team, so even if you tunnel the same survivor, you have to hook them 4 times (to get through the teams shared hooks) then 2 more times, to get through their own states. This could be a way to do it for example. Obviously it has other implications, but the reality is that it is possible to fix it. But the fix to it is not to incentivize killers to do other things, or to disincentivize tunneling, its to make it literally impossible to do, then balance the game around that thing being impossible.
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@RainehDaze said:
Ah yes, all gens should be super far apart instead of addressing perk balance. This is a well thought out and not at all hasty plan that completely misses how maps with spread-out gens like that because of size already penalise low-movement Killers a ton.
And now you want to arbitrarily space them out further.
Haha, no.
Actually you have it backwards, the fundamental game has too many issues and needs to be addressed first before perks come into play. The problem is, if both sides had 0 perks, then the survivors will win most of the time because gen regression and 3-genning is basically required for the killer to stand a chance.
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@InvadeGames said:
Of course stuff like this is anecdotal and 90% of this forum disagrees but im very confident in my position.
For example I was playing a match just now on dead dawg saloon(as doctor) with distressing, huntress lullaby, unnerving presence, and overcharge so a very oppressive skill check based build particularly on smaller maps. I figured this would be a very solid game as I can pull this off real well on larger maps usually by being able to slow the game down immensely by the time you hit 2 gens left.
SO i spawn by saloon and do my normal routine on this map by immediately taking down the troublesome doors on saloon and shack as those are guaranteed loop spots for later.
I then head for a gen and find Mikaela by the 2 story building on the side of the map(not the saloon) i chase her around the building 2x with her running up the stairs and off the ledge before i decide this is loop is too strong too waste time on. I switch off to a feng nearby. I have a pretty easy chase and down, getting her within 20-30 seconds. i hook her. the 4th gen pops on the first hook. Extremely surprised as I(no exaggeration) had been in this match for 3 MAYBE 4 minutes and have had far worse starts than this. of course i get frustrated right away but decided id just see if i can pull of some major underdog win(i consider 2k and above a win for myself)
immediately after the hook i spot a david running 20 feet away and i run to hit him then double back for hook as i spotted a Mikaela in the area as well and knew david was taking me away from hook so they could get save. as im going back to hook(from like 50 feet away) 5th gen pops and unhook happens. I now have 1 hook in 4 mins of gameplay and all gens are done. clearly if i want to get anything done i have one obvious target, the injured feng right in front of me, i eat her dead hard, down her and hook her for hook number 2 for the 4 minutes match. exit gate has now been opened. So now im just like whatever and let them save and exit the game.
So at MOST 5 minutes elapsed.
Then post game chat feng blames me for "tunneling" and saying thats why i lost the game.
Ok No, absolutely not. 4 gens were done by hook 1 and by the time you were unhooked all 5 were done. I didnt "ignore everyone else to get you out the game as quickly as possible" and you consisted a mere 50% of the hits in the game that lasted 5 minutes. What do you have expected me to do at that point? not gone for the only play I had?
And while this is just ONE game, its similar to how survivors act in so many other matches and what ive seen in videos of other matches. you were last one hooked, 30 seconds later run into the path of the killer and then get mad that he doesnt ignore you to go find some other person.
It does not make sense these asinine expectations that are placed upon people and then get shamed for things that dont even happen.
I play in NA servers so me experience is only for matches in NA so perhaps demographics are different elsewhere but from my experience of many, many matches as survivors, camping and tunneling are NEARLY nonexistent. they happen so rarely its a non issue. and from having experience playing both roles i can tell when im being "tunneled or camped" or if its because I or my team mate played in such a way that provided a rational opportunity to arise in which you take out the survivor in front of you. Especially when you risk a match being over before you even have a chance to actually PLAY the match.
Now i will concede that most of my matches arent that ridiculously short so is a bit on the extreme side and i am not one who thinks gen slowdown builds are required(i dont use more than 1-2 in builds if any) but survs, check your entitlement and stop complaining about things that dont happen. thanks.
You may now proceed to shame me for not believing your complaints.
The reality is, survivors often make camping and tunneling a viable strategy, and then complain when the killer does it, even though it is the most optimal play right there.
For example, i had a scenario that happened recently to me on one of the autohaven maps with the "fun bus" . I go to a gen that is nearly at 50% in a corner, kick it, spot a survivor who is injured, and hook them nearby that gen and pretty dead zone.
I start walking away from the gen, and i see a guy in the distance a bit. I start running toward him, He immediate starts running over to the fun bus. Now this fun bus, has the god window, i know the pallet is still up, and it is connected to a jungle gym, on top of that, it is in a corner of the map where the survivors already completed the generator. As i see him do this, before the hooked guy is even out of my terror radius, he gets unhooked.
Now let me ask you, what is the smart play here? Should i turn around and go after the guy who was just unhooked? At that point, i know 1 is injured, recently hooked, and a 2nd survivor must be there. It is also near a gen that was 50% complete, so they could easily double team that gen with a prove thyself in about 40 seconds. On top of that, it was inside a pretty big dead zone where i already kicked a few pallets. Or should i chase the fully healed guy who is at the strongest setup on the entire map?
Obviously, the correct play there for me, is to ignore the guy going to the strongest setup on the map with no gen nearby, to go after the 2 players which are in a weaker position and where one is injured and they are near a gen that is half done.
But, at the end of that game i was a "camping tunnler noob"
The reality is, they enabled me to do it. If they wanted me to not do it, they should have waited for me to get a bit further before they unhooked, and the guy who ran to the fun bus, should have instead run to the left where there was an LT wall, making him much more appetizing to go after instead of him leading me on long chase on the strongest setup available to them while still being fully healed.
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@kaneyboy said:
the most exciting thing about DBD is looping. So when it's taken away it's boring.
Because without anti-loop, the gens go too fast. If survivors just hold w, and don't even use loops or pallets, it'll take a killer, without using their power, about 58 seconds to down that survivor, and hook them. That is using 0 pallets, 0 loops, 0 windows, nothing, just shift+w.
Without anti-loop, the gens simply go too fast. As it stands now, the most optimal way to play survivor, is to play as safe as possible, just predrop every pallet. Every pallet kick, buys you 20 seconds before the killer can hit you. All you need to do is hold shift+w, drop 2-3 pallets, and the killer just lost 3 gens. Repeat one more time, and the killer loses.
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@HugTechLover said:
Some killers on here loaattthh survivors that can loop. Many times I’ll run a killer forever and when I finally get downed, it’s head shakes, hit on hook, nodders, or slugged till last second then hooked. I don’t teabag, point, etc. My buddies that can’t really loop well rarely receive the same treatment from that killer.
I’m not upset, just find it funny at times. You shake your head at me after losing 2-3 gens to the chase.. 😂
P.S; I am a killer main, and I loveeee a good survivor. 10 second chases are no fun. The best looper usually gets to have hatch.
Some survivors on here loaattthh killers than can mindgame. Many times i'll down a survivor in 15 seconds and when i pick them up, they immediate DC, or kill themselves on hook.
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@BillsHere101 said:
When you're incapacitated, you could always run to another gen or do something else until the timer runs out. Survivors could also improve their chasing a lot more than getting downed by the killer in 1 second.
This perk also has a cooldown of 30 seconds and the killer must kick the generator or it won't work. It's easily to deal with it not much like Dead Hard.
The problem with eruption, as nearly any other killer perk ATM. Is that against solo queue players, it is far too powerful and effective. Against SWF, it is basically worse than most other regression perks.
The fundamental problem with this game, is that there is a big difference between players like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtENJZ_z0zw&t=1sAnd players who use self care in a corner every single time they get injured.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3272045#Comment_3272045
I can promise you, you don’t have a cheater every single game. Auto DH is not a common thing. DH is not hard to hit.
My friend, i have 2.5k hours in this game. I can tell you when it is obvious that someone is doing it. You can easily test them, swing on the opposite side of a wall or pallet where they would never get hit, and then watch them dead hard. It happens so often now.
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@Regulus47 said:
And this is a bad thing why? Knight dropping a guard instantly took no skill and had next to no counterplay if there wasn't a pallet immediately near the loop to run to. Seems like they're incenticising a more dynamic way to play him
If there was another effective way of playing him that would be fine (and honestly ideal) but currently it is his only viable strat.
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@wimpy said:
Yes, here you go. This rule has not changed from the beginning. At the end of the video, I also recorded LV4 of Tome12. This is the same.
Ok cool, i feel like it's still probably the best routes, i'll keep that in mind for next time. Thanks! I'll edit the OP later when i get break from work.
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@Digfish said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3282833#Comment_3282833
They're saying you can't get to the final survivor and killer challenges on the top right without completing that node with the blue x. PRetty sure Wimpy is right.
Yeah, and i don't think that is correct:
Once you complete the red node, the yellow node becomes a point you can move from, unless the level 4 tomes are different for some reason.
TBH i rarely have saved level 4 in the past so i never really checked and earlier levels usually don't have these 2 end nodes like this. Either way i should be able to confirm it in the next day or 2.
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@wimpy said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PA3A5Q6T71PD/image.png
I feel that both routes have one thing in common and that is the need to add a blue line to make it work....
Shouldnt need it, the node on the top right should activate the other 2 nodes when you complete it, and that node with the blue x is reachable from the middle one.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3282304#Comment_3282304
I still see perks like pain res in nearly all of my matches along with other gen perks. Yet no one seems to be talking about that perk.
If the argument is that dead hard should be nerfed because it's used a lot then pain res should also be nerfed again because it's still used often
Pain res has fallen out of fashion i think. The new "Meta" build right now is: Call of Brine/Eruption/Brutal Strength/No Where to hide.
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@Tizzle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3282462#Comment_3282462
Mandy has already stated killing yourself on a hook is not against the rules.
Disconnecting is already punished.
Repeatedly going afk for whatever reason is against the rules.
Sounds like an inconsistency in the rules then. The rules state "Refusing to participate in normal play" so explain to me how killing yourself on the hook is not that.
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@MisterMister said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3282220#Comment_3282220
750K in 1 match? That’s 1 heckuva bonus
I think they meant they earned up to 750k from their 560k, so it would be 190k for the match. Which with 5 BPS may be possible.
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@Rizzo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3282079#Comment_3282079
Refusing to participate to the normal gameplay is reportable, correct.
So does that mean i can report people for Intentionally killing themselves on the hook, DCing or going AFK as well? Because all 3 of those would be "Refusing to participate in the normal gameplay"
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3282276#Comment_3282276
1-2 isn't so bad, I'm seeing 2 ot more without fail.
But it beats the 4x DH which was just used for distance non stop so bad killers was made even worse.
I still remember most forum members say DH wasnt any good before, still makes me laugh because the same people still like to say I'm just bad lol
Side note though, DH is still always on my builds. Like I said after the change the perk is still stupid strong and in some situations even stronger
50% usage in a game with over 100 perks is pretty awful and means it is still overused. Also in high MMR, its usually 3-4 people with it.
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@dspaceman20 said:
It was more of a balance change then for pick rate. It's mostly fine now
They literally said in the post that the changes were about pick rate and changing the meta:
During our 6th Anniversary Broadcast, we announced a new progression system and a meta-shifting perk overhaul. We’re thrilled to say that both initiatives will headline the upcoming Mid-Chapter. From the onset, it was important for us to release these changes as a package. Our objective is to shake up the current meta,…For this update, perk changes fall into one of two categories: meta perks that are used too often, and non-meta perks that serve a similar purpose but aren’t used as much.
We understand that many of you have grown attached to your favourite perks and loadouts. Unfortunately, shaking up the meta inevitably leads to a few changes. Rest assured that our goal is to provide alternatives that align with your preferred playstyle while widening the scope to include more viable perk options.
It’s also important to note that not every meta perk is equal, and each was considered on a case-by-case basis. So, what are Dead by Daylight’s meta perks? By referencing both community feedback and internal data, we can see that some perks stand above the rest.
For Killers: Barbecue and Chilli, Hex: Ruin, Pop Goes the Weasel, Corrupt Intervention, Tinkerer, Hex: No One Escapes Death, and Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance.
For Survivors: Dead Hard, Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike, Iron Will, Self-Care, and Spine Chill.
If that was their goal with dead hard, then they failed. Killer meta perks shifted heavily. Generally people use perks like eruption of call of brine now, and all the other survivor perks are pretty underused now.
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Anyway, i think i got pretty derailed, but generally i think nurse is "fine" until these fundamental problems get addressed. And i get tired of people saying nurse should be nerfed but SWF death squads are fine because "they are rare" You should want both things to be fixed and solo queue should be made better.